sanders townsend, best night eight pm eastern on -- as crimea we back tomorrow in the chair to be and we certainly can also catch me this coming tuesday with live coverage from miami on the trump arraignment. simon starts right now. ht now ♪ ♪ ♪ greetings everyone, you are watching symone. we are following unprecedented developments at this hour. former president donald trump indicted for a second time. this time facing seven criminal charges 37 federal felony counts. for a range of infractions. unauthorized retention of records, conspiracy and false statements. all in the classified documents case. we are digging into the exhaustive efforts and the case against the first former u.s. president to be charged with federal crimes. now productively donald trump's mega political allies are threatening retaliation. but it is all about that base. and while this could be damning legally to the former president,

i believe it is. it remains to be seen if it will hurt him at all politically. he is still the front runner for the republican presidential primary. and trump's campaign is not slowing down at all. today he is on a stump in the south making his first speeches since the indictment in georgia and north carolina. i am simone sanders townsend and i have something to say about it all. ♪ ♪ ♪ what kind of democracy are weak? are we a mature democracy, capable of enforcing its rules and laws? or an immature democracy choosing chaos over the competition. questions after this week's historic federal indictment of former president donald trump. and if you didn't get a chance to read that damning 44-page document, or 45, i highly encourage you to do it.

it is all right, because we have got you suffered. on thursday we learned the former president was indicted by the justice department and its investigation of mishandling of classified documents. and yesterday when the indictment was unsealed, we learned that he is accused of violating sovereign federal laws and faces 37 federal accounts. including 31 count of willful retention of national defense information, conspiracy to obstruct justice, and much more. donald trump is on the campaign trail at this hour. he spoke within the last hour in columbus, georgia. and in between his usual rounds he said this about the indictment. >> the ridiculous and baseless indictment of me by the biden administration's weaponized department of injustice will go down as among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country. >> what donald trump calls an abuse of power is the result of

an exhaustive investigation with a massive amount of evidence. laying out the indictment. and frankly most of the information comes from his own staff. a few hours after the indictment was unsealed we heard from special counsel jack smith for the first time since attorney general merrick garland announced that he would be leading this investigation. and jack smith made one point abundantly clear. >> the indictment was voted by a grand jury of citizens in the southern district of florida. and i invite everyone to read it in full. to understand the scope and the gravity of the crimes charged. we have one set of laws in this country. and they apply to everyone. >> the indictment included stunning photos. and these photos were provided by, again, donald trump's own staff. and frankly they need to be seen to really be believed. they show stacks of boxes overflowing with documents. stuffed in practically in every corner of donald trump's mar-a-lago estate in palm beach,

florida. one picture shows dozens of boxes piled on a stage in a ballroom where trump has posted countless parties with a number of guests. another any bathroom. if you look closely you can even see boxes in the shower. donald trump just -- you heard it. he is calling the justice department corrupt. he is saying what about president biden? what about former president mike pence? then they also have sensitive documents in their possession? didn't they do it too? they did. but the difference could not be more stark. according to the indictment, donald trump knowingly took documents. he was not authorized to have them. and then went through great lengths to keep unconcealed him. made false statements and conspired with a staffer destruct justice in the process. mike pence and joe biden, they didn't do any of that. this is some of what donald trump's own lawyers told investigators, that trump said after the justice department issued a subpoena for trump to return sensitive documents. it says, quote, i don't want

anybody what looking through my boxes. he also goes on to say that what happens if we just don't respond at all or don't play ball with them? would it be better if we just told them we didn't have anything here? and isn't it better if there are no documents? according to the indictment, folks, donald trump knew what he was doing and he knew what was wrong. and there is really no telling how many people saw some of the country's most sensitive national defense information. the indictment includes a very interesting exchange with donald trump, two members of his staff, a writer and a publisher who were there to conduct an interview with the former president. and it was always recorded with donald trump's knowledge and his consent. trump first goes into detail about a senior military officials plan for a u.s. attack against another country. he then shows them a document that he says the defense department created for him. and then he says it is highly

confidential -- secret information. donald trump was always sloppy in terms of how he handled classified information. and conversations about that information. but while he was in the white house the reality is that the presidents protected him from any accountability. well donald j trump is not the president anymore. it is a donald trump's consistent sloppiness in both conduct and conversations that led to this historic indictment. he and only himself is to blame. let's discuss here with me is sadie gurman, justice department reporter for the wall street journal. anthony coley it's with us, former director of the office of public affairs and senior adviser to attorney general merrick garland, and an msnbc justice legal affairs analyst now, paul butler is here. former federal prosecutor. professor at georgetown law. and an msnbc legal analyst. welcome to you all. sadie you know, you have read a few indictments in your lifetime.

a couple at this point about donald trump. what were your main takeaways from this federal indictment that we now have? >> you know, our reporting over the last few months and that of other news outlets is sort of hitting the broad strokes of the conduct that is being alleged here. but what struck me need i-10 is just how overt some of the alleged conduct really is. you know the photos are incredibly striking. color photos of his indictment of, like you pointed to, boxes and bathrooms and overflowing with documents. and just the few anecdotes that we get from this indictment, it is really a speaking indictment which is something that the justice department puts together in order to really convey to the public what the contract and what the charges allege here. and it is very colorful and it is very revealing. i think it was a pretty good read. >> anthony, i think the striking thing about the indictment for me is that most of the detail here comes from

donald trump's own staff. his employees, personal aide, his lawyers even. we will talk about that in a second. what was your impression of the strength of the case that jack smith is bringing forward given what we saw on this indictment? >> you are absolutely right. simon, with the assessment. what i will say here what my takeaway here is that donald trump today faces the most significant legal challenge of his entire career. and that is not without good reason. the material here that we are talking about these are not just policy documents, these are not memos about any type of policy matter. right? we are talking about nuclear programs. we are talking about information that was in part derived from human intelligence sources. and to your question, the source for all of this material was in part people who were on donald trump's payroll. i am talking about his lawyer

who made audio recordings of his interactions with donald trump after they occurred. >> we are talking about government surveillance. so i think in part that the reason i had such a small strong reaction and was really astonished by this document is the strength of that information. right? i was talking about secondhand stuff. talking about primary source material. primarily from people who were on donald trump's payroll. >> people who were there. people who did it. >> yes, exactly, right. >> so, paul, understanding this, the strength of the indictment and again we should know that donald trump is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law, and this indictment is the prosecutions document. we have yet to see the defenses defense, frankly, in this. and what will be to some of the lawyers that no longer defending the president. let's talk about how the former

president pardon me, let's talk about how donald trump isn't handling all of this. because if anyone expected him to stay silent, they just haven't pending attention. he is attacking jack smith. he is attacking the justice department. he has gone on a rampage on his social media site ever since this morning. and he had some, again, just very pointed and lies to say during his rally in columbus, georgia how deep of a legal hole is he digging himself here? >> every time he talks about the case, jack smith is taking notes and it is essentially a confession which chuck smith really doesn't need. because symone, he has not receipts right now. in ottawa has the 31 documents pertaining to national security. but he has got photos. he has got auto recordings. he has got to videotapes. and presumably a lot more that we don't know because as loudly as this indictment speaks.

you can be sure some of the back indictment to this point will be reserved for trial. so anthony is right. there have been lots of accusations about donald trump over the years. two impeachments. charges from alvin bragg. there has never been anything this detailed and this consequential in terms of trump's criminal exposure. even if he gets convicted in the manhattan case, he is not likely to go to jail. simone, for the crimes and the federal indictment even for the first time offenders they get sentenced to prison. >> yeah, and on page 45 of the document it has the penalties sheet. and i was shocked to say the least. so, donald trump was named in this indictment. but so was his body man walt nauta. he was indicted and he was charged with a number of federal crimes as well. look, say, he is a former member of the navy that was elected to serve in the white house on staff prior to

becoming trump's personal aide post presidency. and i can tell you from experience, anthony knows somebody in an honest position, he would have an extensive security briefing before getting that white house job. he would know better. now, personal aides in the white house, they have a little less responsibility than personal aids in the post presidency. which explains why, i think, well he's not a critical player here. why is he also facing charges? can you just tell us specifically? >> well this was somebody who worked very very closely with trump and was a critical figure in the documents investigation from the start. but what is really striking in the indictment that what he has alleged to have done is basically prosecutors and investigators talked to him over the fall, but then he eventually stopped agreeing to be interviewed because he was fearful of the possibility of charges. and so as a result of that investigators did continue to do their work. and basically they found, which i felt was particularly

revealing, a picture that he had taken of documents spilled on the floor at mar-a-lago. which he had apparently sent to other aides at mar-a-lago. but one questioned by investigators about that photo and about the moving of the boxes he apparently said that he had, you know, no knowledge of. this >> city, i am sorry to interrupt you, but i want to point to this point. because those text messages you are talking about, they are between that and other employees. and we have the, like, we have the next messages in the indictment because somebody gave those up. but to the other employees were not named in the indictment? so are they not, should we assume they are not cooperating? >> well i think that is just a sign of how intensive and far-reaching this investigation really was. i mean, jack smith had interviewed almost every single employee that worked at mar-a-lago from top political aides to maids gardeners. we had some pretty interesting details about the types of

people that he was talking to. and this just goes to show how deep in probing he went. the fact that he has the sex messages and that there remains to be evidence that we haven't even seen at this point. related to what these folks have told the special counsel. >> all right, sadie gurman, anthony coley, paul butler, stick around, y'all aren't going anywhere, we have a lot to discuss later on. including what to expect on tuesday in court in miami. and this lawyer situation. and then whether judge aileen cannon remember her? will remain the judge in trump's case. we have got that and much much more on donald trump's federal indictment ahead. but up next, we are talking about the other significant story this week. the major and i would say surprising victory for voting rights at the supreme court. one of the plaintiffs in the case joins me next to talk about what it all could mean. but first our bestie is here. my colleague richard lui with all the top news stories. >> hey, simone, good to see you this afternoon.

ted kaczynski known as the unabomber died in federal prison at the age of 81. he was serving a life sentence. he led a 17 year male bombing campaign that killed three people and injured 23 others. almost two decades ago after the longest and costly man hunt in u.s. history, he was found in a small plywood cabin in montana. ap reporting ukraine's president confirmed their long discussed counteroffensive started. so once he saying defensive actions are taking place, but he would not speak about which this phase they are in right now. and president biden hosted a prime celebration at the white house today. they are saying it is the largest ever. pop singer betty hussein. biden discussed his assertions efforts to protect elleby lgbtq out -- at a plus time when many state legislators are hurting -- delayed this thursday event until today. more simon for you right after this break. this break ur skin. and even when we metamorphosize into our new

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because i was specifically looking for something that helped with insulin resistance. i had had conversations with my physician indicating that that was probably an issue that i was facing and making it more difficult for me to sustain weight loss. golo has been more sustainable. i can fit it into family life, i can make meals that the whole family will enjoy. as the nation navigates seismic it just works in everyday life as a mom. legal developments against former president donald trump, there is a major decision from the supreme court, in a case of allen v. milligan, that we also need to talk about. a 5 to 4 decision with justice roberts and kavanaugh siding with the liberal justices. a supreme court upheld section two of the voting rights act. let me explain this. this is significant. section two of the voting rights act prohibits any voting

law practice, or map that results in the denial or abridgement of the right of any citizen of the united states to vote on account of race or color. the voting rights act, which was signed into law in 1965, by lyndon b. johnson, is a critical piece of legislation. it is the law that outlawed the discriminatory voting practices that were adapted in many states. southern states, after the civil war. including literacy tests, and also prerequisites to voting. the voting rights act enjoyed bipartisan support for decades. republican president, george w. bush, signed in 2006, the longest reauthorization of the voting rights act. ever. he took credit for it. this week, the supreme court upheld a lower court ruling, that alabama violated section two of the voting rights act by packing its voters into just

one congressional district. that is the blue portion you see on your screen. diminishing their voting power. a standing lock -- unconstitutional maps. this ruling was a surprise. why? because nearly ten -- about ten years ago, the supreme court, it was not shy about its willingness to get the voting rights act. getting section five, the section that talked about preclearance. i.e., the section that said that if states wanted to make changes to their voting laws, they needed to check in with the federal government, to make sure they weren't doing anything discriminatory. to be clear, the voting rights act has been on life support since 2013. since that shall be the culture case that gutted. it people were bracing across the country, that if section two is going to be upheld, if not, it was gonna be nonexistent. while today the voting rights act is far from safe, a majority black districts are eroding, according to bloomberg. -- it did cut the number of majority black voting districts across the country.

from 22, to his view as nine. that's why this decision is so critical. section two gets at the heart of why the voting rights act was necessary in the first place. it seemed more litigation than any other part of the. -- in ten states, still pending in federal court. joining me now to discuss more, and the importance of this long mark case, is one of the plaintiffs in the alabama case. khadidah stone, she is a chief field and campaign strategist for alabama forward. khadidah, i'm just so excited to talk to you. just what was your initial reaction to this ruling? you have been an organizer now and alabama for decades. frankly, at the forefront of this fight. >> yes, so first i want to say thank you so much symone for having me on here. it's truly an honor. i was actually in the beauty supply store, and i am urgently burst out into tears. i have the feeling of pure joy.

i was very optimistic, but i was also realistic about what kind of court we are really dealing with here. so my overall feeling is ecstatic, joyful, happy. but i do understand that the work is not over. >> so, let's talk about some particulars of the case. the state of alabama argued that they are -- there couldn't be an additional black district without prioritizing race over other districts. and it's mapping factors. you and your team proved them wrong. i was reading in the decision, that you all actually provided a number of maps to the justices. in your case, dealing detailing how there were so many other ways that these maps could have been drawn that protected the participation of black voters in alabama. >> yeah, you know, alabama, we have seven congressional districts. east one of those congressional districts represents 14% of the population. we found in the 2020 census

that the black population of alabama was 27 point 79. but it would be rounded up to 28%. so if you add 14 plus 14, that's 28%. which would automatically equal to congressional districts. it's pretty easy math. we weren't asking for something that was out of the way. we were asking for, you know, what black alabamians in particular are owed. >> now that the supreme court sided with the district court, that again, originally sided with you all. these electronic maps are gonna be redrawn in alabama. it's my understanding, before 2024. what is that process? >> typically, the process is the governor would call a special session focused on redistricting. then the reappropriation committee will come together, decide how they want to draw the maps. then they would go to the legislator of the house, then they would go to the senate. the governor would then sign for the maps to be installed. >> do you have any, have you all heard from governor ivey, if this is in fact something she plans to do with urgency? >> i have not heard anything.

but because the supreme court has ruled, i would hope that she would do what was right. >> we will be watching that. okay, let's talk about -- because the reality is there has been a surgical assault, i would like to argue, on the participation, or the political power, if you will, of black voters. then specifically, black elected officials across this country. you all winning this case has ramifications that reach far beyond alabama. what do you think this means for the fight going forward? >> yeah, so there are other states, especially when we talk about congressional maps. there are about 12 other states who are also suing their state for violating section two of the voting rights act. each one of those states were actually told, until they ruled on this case, that they could not give them a proper answer. until the answer for this case came out. so, i'm looking forward to seeing what can happen for the

other states. and i would hope that those states do right and abide by what the supreme court has already ruled. >> so justice kavanaugh, okay, a deciding vote in this case. but he only concurred in part of the case. now how confident are you that section two is safe? that is going to remain unharmed under this particular court? >> well, you know, we are grateful that the supreme court upheld what we know to be true. that everyone deserves to have their voices heard. this really does prove that politicians cannot weaken our community representation by distorting congressional lives. particularly in alabama. but like i said earlier, this fight is far from over. our constitution does not explicitly establish the right of voting age citizens to vote and have their ballots counted. so this must change. because we know more attacks on black and brown people's right to vote will come. like you mentioned earlier, you referenced the shelby county v. halter case. we are very aware that the

reason we're here today is because they struck down sections four and five in the shelby county v. halter case. that's why we have to remain vigilant on all the efforts and fight against what they are doing to suppress the black and brown vote across the -- not just in alabama, but across the country. >> it's something to be vigilant about. tomorrow gonna speak with congresswoman terri soul, whom i know you know well, about this very issue. and the ramifications going forward. khadidah stone, thank you very, very much for your time. >> thank you so much. >> up next folks, we are still talking about the federal indictment of donald trump. it comes with very obvious legal peril, but the question is what could it mean for him politically? especially since donald trump is still the republican front runner in the 2024 republican primary. a political panel is going to weigh in next. igh in next. lla on standouts like the boss. it's hard being that cheesy. but you make it look easy though.

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hater of donald trump. a hater. >> the woman who was in charge of the jury it is totally tainted, when you take a look. how can you have a person like this? in washington d.c., you cannot get a fair trial. you cannot. just like in new york city, you can't get a fair trial. >> as you saw from those comments addressing a long list of legal cases of over the years, any attempt to hold donald trump or his allies accountable is met with a rant that is part of a conspiracy devised by a biased government

to destroy them. that's not true. this week, it was no different. but it was not special counsel jack smith who decided whether donald trump was indicted. that decision was actually made by a majority of the 23 grand jurors in the southern district of florida. which covers the area that the former president now calls home, by the way. the trial jury will be selected from nine counties within the southern district. six of which, donald trump won in both 2016 and 2020. for now at least, the judge overseeing his case is one that donald trump appointed himself. lately, donald trump's claims of a legal system stacked against him have no credibility. or at least even less than they have had in past trump litigations. but when it comes to the political talking points deployed by donald trump and his supporters. i think it's fair to say at least right now, it feels dangerous. let's bring in our political power. brendan buck is a former communications advisor for

former house speaker paul ryan, and now an msnbc political analyst. and mo elleithee is the executive director of the georgetown institute of politics and public service. i also believe that mo you are a dnc elected member, appointed member. brendan, i want to start with you. the top of the show i laid out the indictment. it is in fact damning. legally, the question on the table is how will that affect donald trump politically? i think we are watching it play out. some of this rhetoric coming from republican elected officials is dangerous. >> yeah, absolutely. look, you've gone well into the legal peril that he isn't. i think it's obvious that this is not good politics for a general election. but the reality is, this is only going to be dangerous for him politically in the republican primary if his opponents decide they want it to be. thus far, they have decided they want to not only give him a pass on this, but run

interference to defend him on what should be a very obvious opportunity. i'm just, i'm sitting here dumbstruck, watching a lot of the people who have said they want to run against donald trump for this nomination. and when something so obviously troubling comes out, they are immediate responses to excuse him, or to blame joe biden, or talk about the deep state, whatever you want. but i get it. the talking points are easy if you want to talk about what joe biden did, or whoever else. but look, -- if you really want to take him out, here's your opportunity. let's do it. as a former strategist, it is mind-blowing to me what is going on. i actually want to play some sound from some of the lawmakers who have rushed to donald trump's defense. take a listen to this, y'all. >> this judgment is wrong by this doj. that they treated president trump differently than they treat others. it didn't have to be this way. >> they have one standard for donald trump, and another

standard for everybody else. everyone is held to a different standard, but donald trump. >> they are going after president trump. two tiers of justice. >> so, those were all, i would like to know, members of the house of representatives. the very few senators, we've yet to hear from mitch mcconnell. in terms of the opponents, people who are running against donald trump, i would like to know, mo, former vice president mike pence was stronger yesterday before the indictment came out then he was after seeing the indictment. how -- just from an electoral politics expect perspective, -- what would your advice be to maybe some of donald trump's opponents? but also, how about democrats, how do they counter this narrative that you just heard in these clips. from republicans falsely repeating the lie that donald trump is being held to this different standard. >> well look, i don't pretend to know the republican primary electorate that we'll. but i will say this.

for any advice i would give to his opponents in the republican primary, which center around if you want to take out donald trump, you have to take on donald trump. right now, with the exception of a south hutchinson and chris christie, nobody seems to be doing that. they are afraid of donald trump's base. they don't want to alienate the maga base. and so, they are trying to embrace it. that is going to do nothing to differentiate themselves from the former president. electorally, it's curious. because, you know, if you look at the polling, donald, in the early states, donald trump's support is soft enough. he's got a floor in the mid to high 30s. that is plenty of room for others to run with. they don't have to run in appealing entirely to the maga base. there are a lot of disaffected republicans out there, i think, who might be saying, you know

what, we were with donald trump wants. maybe even twice. but i'm just exhausted. i'm exhausted of all the chaos that swirls around this guy. and so, maybe it's time to give someone with a clean slate a chance, if we want to take out president biden. -- >> this is. >> no, go ahead mo. >> in terms of democrats, this they need to actually do the thing. the department of justice is going to handle the legal part of it. democrats, i think, need to stand strong in favor of democracy. and i think that is appealing not just to the democratic base, but also to a lot of independents in a general election who rejected a lot of republicans in the 2022. in the 2022. because of crazy conspiracy theories and january 6th. they are gearing up to do that again. i think democrats can keep doing what they are doing. and let trump do trump. >> so this, this is a completely random example. but i remember in 2020, early

2019, and that democratic presidential primary, all of those folks running. it be that there were these letters between strom thurmond and then a former vice president, biden. much was made about it in the media. much was made about it in the democratic presidential primary. joe biden was attacked on debate stage multiple times. . he had to answer these questions, but democrats broadly had to answer some of these questions. you know, we all know how the story ended. joe biden went on to be the democratic nominee. and now the 46th president of the united states of america. i think the media apparatus played an important role in that. in terms of asking the questions. so in this case, brandon, do you think that the media apparatus is doing enough to ask the questions, press republican lawmakers, republicans who are running for president on the specifics of the indictment? >> we will find out.

hopefully. obviously there's another network that is going to have a lot of impact on how this is covered, and how this is talked about. the reality is, a lot of groundwork has been laid on behalf of donald trump. or donald trump has laid the groundwork himself, i guess. talking about how investigations are witch hunts. we've seen -- the reason i think a lot of these politicians you are seeing defending him are because of that. they are looking at polls. we have our own poll. nbc news one did one back in april that asked republican voters, how do you look at these investigations? nearly 70% of them said that they were political. and republicans should rally around donald trump. they were out to get donald trump. that's what voters believed. because he's been telling them that for six years. going back to mueller, that this is what this is all about. it's not a hard sell. it's very easy for a lot of these republicans to simply dodge this. blame the doj. turn the page to another subject. and voters will forget them. that's what makes it really hard to hold them accountable. >> it is just, it's

infuriating. because i think at the end of the day, again, we should stay here, donald trump is innocent until proven guilty. this indictment that i have in front of me, this is the prosecutions document. we are going to hear from the defense very soon. but facts are just not debatable. i think mo, maybe what is so concerning about this current environment is obviously we are looking towards tuesday. all eyes are going to be on the courthouse of miami. donald trump, and some of his allies, are already calling on folks to show up. it sounds eerily similar to january 6th. some people are using incendiary rhetoric. how worried are you, how worried should folks be about this kind of talk? and the fact that there are essentially two realities. in america, depending on how you consume news on this topic. >> look, this is one of the biggest challenges we face today. these filter bubbles that we

live in, that create alternate realities for different, for the two sides. for the two parties. the people who are watching that other network, brendan mentioned earlier, believe what they are saying. they believe that the system is constrained by the deep state. that it is a broken system of justice with different tears for people. they believe it. because they are hearing it over and over and over. and so, you know, we have to figure out a way to find a common language that we can all speak when it comes to these. unfortunately, i don't think that's going to happen on tuesday. >> oh goodness. all right, mo elleithee, brendan buck, think you both very very much. and illuminating conversation. up next folks, the impact of the case against donald trump playing out in miami. not washington. why a controversial trump appointed judge might be the one to preside over at all. it is presiding over it now.

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the federal criminal charges against former president donald trump. as a reminder, donald trump has now been indicted for a second time in less than a year. he is facing seven charges, and 37 federal counts in the classified documents case. and will be arranged on tuesday in miami, florida. and the judge who has been assigned to the case is judge aileen cannon. you should remember her. she's a trump appointed judge who intervened in this very case last year. my legal experts are back with. me anthony coley and paul butler. all right paul, let's talk about the next steps. so tuesday in miami will this look like what we saw in new york earlier this year when donald trump was arraigned on state charges? or will it be slightly different? >> pretty much like manhattan.

trump, will surrender to authorities and get booked. that includes fingerprints and possibly dna samples. but probably not mugshots and handcuffs. mainly because he will have a secret service detail for the rest of his life. trump will plead not guilty, the judge won't release him before the next court date. simone, the other picture of florida has a rocket docket. a speedy trial act requires trials to have been within 70 days of -- but there's lots of exceptions. that's not gonna happen with donald trump. whether trump is able to delay his trial until after the election, is at this point, up to judge cannon. >> anthony, if you look on the last page of the indictment, it's like a one pager. it says that this case, i'm quoting it, this case will take 21 days for the parties to try. that is something that special counsel's team wrote in. then if you look at the fourth, number four on that list, it

goes on to say they check a box that say they could do this case between 21 to 60 days. jack smith thinks this is going to be quick. his deputy thinks it's going to be quite. do you have the same confidence? >> [inaudible] >> anthony, are you on mute? >> i, am sorry about that. i don't know that i had that -- that i have that same confidence. i think that document perhaps was submitted before we knew that judge cannon was going to be the judge presiding over this. paul can speak more, i suspect about this. but i suspect there are going to be a lot of pretrial motions before we actually get to the start of this trial. but i will say one thing about the judge cannon. she is not just a conservative judge, but she is well beyond the conservative mainstream. she does not have a record of

being fair. and unbiased. so i am quite frankly, worried about her handling and oversight of this piece. >> so, i want to remind people about judge cannon. she was the judge who temporarily blocked parts of the justice department's investigation. she appointed a special master. she said to the justice department could not review the classified documents that were found at mar-a-lago. an appeals court of the 11th circuit, which matters, because it's one of the most conservative courts. three trump appointed judges, popped her down. basically the pink in there was damning. it was all eventually dismissed. it called her decision incorrect. so paul, how much is all of this playing into the fact that judge cannon is on this case. could the doj change that? or is it dangerous to go down that route? >> it's really her decision.

there is no legal reason why she would have to. but of the 26th federal trial judges in the south florida quarter who are eligible to handle this case. she is the worst possible case. it's not only that she got reversed twice in two months by this very conservative 11th circuit. it is why she got reversed. in her opinions, she explicitly said that she was treating trump differently than other targets and search for this. the 11th circuit had to -- her. that is not how the rule of law worked. we know from the diamond that the facts are not on trump side. his best defense is going to be legal arguments about things like attorney-client privilege, if judge cannon keeps the case, she gets to make those decisions. one more really scary thing, if trump loses this trial, he gets to appeal. if jack smith loses the trial, it is game over.

the defendant is felt not guilty, the prosecution doesn't get to appeal, no matter how agree just the judges mistakes were. >> a jury of the peers. i mean, it was laura jarrett that told us of nbc news, senior legal analyst, that it was completely random that she was assigned. judge cannon, this case. anthony coley, paul butler, think you both very very much. >> thank you. >> up next folks, i have something to say, in case you are wondering. to the trump die hards who are standing by man, even in the face of this indictment. but also the question for them. it's an important one. so please, stick around. e, stick around. cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good. life... doesn't stop for diabetes. be ready for every moment, with glucerna. it's the number one doctor recommended brand that

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to create your personalized plan. let's find the right investments for your goals okay, great. j.p. morgan wealth management. >> the indictment of former president donald trump. it didn't surprise me. but what did surprise me is the serious legal consequences he is now facing. how just easily they could've been avoided. if donald trump would've just cooperated, and turned over the documents to the national archives. and records administration, when they asked for them, he would not be here. had he not been so sloppy in both his conduct and conversation about these documents, he would not be here. according to the unsealed indictment, as i've noted on this timeline that you will see, on the screen, the boxes fill the classified documents were moved throughout mar-a-lago to

unsecure places like a ballroom, or on a stage, a business center, a storage room. even a bathroom. again, just sloppy. the former president has shown time and time again that he thinks he is above the law. he has told us, in so many words, that he believes he can literally do anything and do not face consequences. remember this? >> they say i have the most loyal people. did you ever see that? where i could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and should somebody, and i wouldn't lose any voters, okay? >> if i'm being honest, donald trump is not wrong. because even after this most recent indictment, it is very clear that the mega camp is still standing before their man. for all of the donald trump supporters who may be listening to this, or you see it on your conservative media sites, because they write it up. because they don't like what i had to say. i want to ask you a question. are you comfortable with the fact that donald trump repeatedly lied to you? he said he did nothing wrong.

and that the documents were his. but the indictment lays out in detail, with evidence, from his very own employees and attorneys. it tells us. that those statements are 100 percent false. let's also be clear, the indictment is the disregard for the safety and our security of our nation. are you comfortable with him risking the lives of millions of americans, who are serving? including maybe you or your loved ones, by sharing top secret intelligence with unauthorized people. being careless, all because he just wanted to show off his power for the fun of it, maybe. just remember that while donald trump was on the campaign trail, not telling the truth, ask yourself if this is the person you want to lead this country. can you trust him? does he care about america? the truth is, if we are being honest, his actions are far from patriotic. thanks so much folks for watching symone on this

saturday. i am symone sanders townsend, i'll be back tonight for our special coverage of donald trump's indictment. starting at eight pm eastern. right here on msnbc. politics nation with the great reverend, al sharpton, is up right after this break. after this break i bought the team! kevin...? i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i'm gonna cashback on a few other things too. starting with the sound system... [autotune] that's caaaaaaaaash. cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cashback? with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel.

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