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tv   Ana Cabrera Reports  MSNBC  June 8, 2023 7:00am-8:00am PDT

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to this. yes sir. kpmg performance insights are transforming the game for the entire lpga tour. remember the things you loved... ...before asthma got in the way? fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's designed to target and remove them and helps prevent asthma attacks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. get back to better breathing. ask your doctor about fasenra. thank you so much for joining us. it's 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera. it is the clearest sign yet that
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a federal indictment of donald trump could be eminent. nbc news confirms the doj told trump's lawyers and he is a target of this classified documents investigation. moments ago, a key prosecutor in the special counsel's office was spotted at the miami federal courthouse. so is that probe rapidly reaching its conclusion with the former president smack at the center? plus loyal no more. mike pence kicks off his 2024 bid with his strongest rebuke of trump yet. >> president trump also demand ed that i choose between him and the constitution. i chose the constitution. and i always will. >> we will have a live report from the red hot campaign trail. and more than 120 million americans enveloped by dangerous wildfire smoke. postponing national sports games, canceling school activities and prompting delays
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and ground stops at multiple airports. the transportation secretary will join us and have more on how to stay safe and when relief could come. just a few minutes ago, senior special counsel prosecutor was spotted entering the federal courthouse in miami. he's a big name within the justice department. and his presence is significant. this comes after we learn the department of justice notified donald trump that he is a target in their investigation into his handling of classified documents. meaning the doj believes trump committed a crime. let's get to justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian in miami for us. and this is significant. tell us more about what it means this target designation and tell us more about his presence there. >> reporter: good morning. a target means someone
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prosecutors believe committed a crime. some ways, donald trump has always been the target of this investigation. the search warrant that allowed the fbi to search mar-a-lago led them to believe probable cause was committed. it suggests that that person is likely to be indicted. that's the practice in federal courts across the country. on pauper it's a chance to give the defendant one last opportunity to testify before the grand jury, but that almost never happens because the defendant really can't do that. it becomes legally perilous. it is a way to warn the defendant and their lawyer that an indictment is eminent. in terms of david, he's part of the senior management of the special counsel's operation. and the fact that he is here today in miami is significant and suggests that the center of graphty of this case has moved here to south florida and that
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if they decide to file charges, all indications are the bulk of those charges will be filed here. there's some very technical reasons for that as i have been doing some reporting. there's some issues over what's known as venue that make it more legally sound to file here in florida where much of the conduct is alleged to have taken place rather than in washington, d.c. even though the grand jury in washington, d.c. did most of the investigating in this case. it's not a complex matter to read a separate grand jury into that investigation to sort of pick up where the grand jury left off. if they need to return indictments here, they are able to do that. >> but then why not start the investigation there in miami? why move it suddenly? >> reporter: we're now to the realm of speculation, but it would be much more favorable to the team to have a jury pool in washington, d.c. which is full of liberal
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democrats, people who don't like donald trump. here in dade county, you have a much greater cross section of political diversity. you have lots of trump supporters here. and so the jury pool is not going to be as favorable. in some ways, you could argue that could be a good thing for the special counsel. if they are trying to bring a case and trying to convince the country that a crime was committed here, they need to convince lots of different people. and that's what they are going to find here in dade county. >> so what are we hearing from trump world since this news broke? pz. >> reporter: as ken pointed out, the trump team viewed tz a target the moment the fbi showed up on his doorstep. so no part of this is especially surprising to them. we have heard briefly from the former president himself in a form of a post on his social media platform that nobody told him he's going to be indicted. that's not exactly the same thing as what we're talking about here in a target letter. it's an indirect denial. what we have seen more broadly from donald trump and his team,
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both the legal team and political team is what i'm comparing to a shaping operation. they are shaping the political battlefield to get their supporters and republicans ready for the prospect that trump might be indicted. they are laying the ground work and sending out press releases with talking points going after jack smith. they have a new ad on television that compares smith and other prosecutors to wolves going after donald trump. doing the work through the judicial system that his political opponents have been able to do. so they appear to be operating that there will be an indictment at some point and they can return to a playbook that worked well for them. politically in new york, casting everyone in the political environment is on the side of donald trump or on the side of, as they have portrayed it, liberal prosecutors. that's good politics in a republican primary. whether it's good legal strategy, that's a question for another time. >> we saw trump and his team fundraise big time after he was indicted here in new york with
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the da's hush money. thank you so much. we know you'll keep us posted if any additional developments. for more let's discuss with melissa marie and shan wu. let me start with you. if trump has been told he's a target, does this mean an indictment is coming? >> it certainly means the rt prosecutors feel that an indictment is a possibility, and they are letting him know he's a target because that's really their formal recognition that he has a fifth amendment concern now. if you're just a witness and you try to invoke the 5th, there maybe some discussions about that and the witness is going to have to demonstrate to a chief judge they have some exposure there. but when you're notified that the client is a target, then the prosecutors are now recognizing
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if you raise the fifth amendment, you have a reason for it because you're in jeopardy. >> i understand that this notification invites another opportunity for trump to make his case. and to testify himself before the grand jury. do you see that happening? >> given the nature of this particular perspective, i i think it's unlikely that his lawyers would allow him to do so. he's not known for being particularly disciplined in these circumstances. so i think for his own sake, his lawyers would advise him to refuse that invitation were it offered. >> we also know that taylor budawich testified. now we know this top trump aid, we know more about what he was asked before the grand jury. apparently according to a source familiar with the proceedings, he was asked about a past public statement that he gay on behalf of trump representing that the
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former president had not retained classified documents. now we're told he was questioned about how he formed the basis for that understanding. what does this tell you about where this investigation is headed? >> that says that they are still looking to make sure they have proper evidence of trump's state of mind. so talking to his aid about what kind of public posture they want to make could involve what trump's opinion is, what he wanted the aud to say. so all of that would be important as to trump's state of mind. and that by itself doesn't really tell me where they are in terms of the process in the case, but it's another example of how much attention they are devoting to evidence about his state of mind. >> it does seem like all of the activity right now in this special counsel probe specific to the classified documents is happening there in florida. we mentioned this lawyer that represents the special counsel team showing up.
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we have the testimony yesterday. some reported there's been multiple witness who is have testified in florida. so some experts have said this may suggest the venue has been moved from d.c. to florida. we don't know that for sen, but would that surprise you? it would be advantageous for the team to be in d.c. for the venue and proceedings. >> to be clear, we don't know anything at this point other than who has come in and out of the courthouse. and it could be the case that there are two different work streams going on here. there's a lot of activity that seemed to have happened at march will go after those subpoenas were issued. there could be a different set of concerns related to individuals who might have been involved in moving documents and things like that. it could be a whole set of charges related to staff and other people not necessarily donald trump. that could be proper in the venue of the southern district
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of florida while still having something going on in d.c. we don't know yet. but as ken said, it would make more sense and perhaps be more advantageous to the department of justice to want to try this in d.c., where they are likely to get a more favorable jury pool where they are likely to be a jury pool composed of a lot of trump supporters, but we just don't know. i would caution the media. if an indictment does issue, we will not know when that theory of the case is, what evidence they have. we'll know that and that has not happened yet. >> i want to play something trump's former attorney told them regarding the plans for defense if he is indicted. >> i'm sure those plans have evolved since, but yeah, misconduct is a big issue that's infecting this case. >> what do you think about
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prosecutorial misconduct as a possible defense, if an indictment does come? >> that's generally a loser of a defense at trial. maybe for something for appeal, but really what happens with that becomes a jury nullification defense. because legally, it's very unlikely you can derail the case by arguing the prosecutors did something wrong at that stage. >> thank you both so much. when we're back in 60 seconds, lungs on fire. look at these images from the big apple. just choking the air right now. smoke with the worst air quality in the world on wednesday. >> i never thought that wildfire smoke could get so close to here. >> more on the health risks on 120 million americans are facing today. i'll talk with pete buttigieg about the impacts on air travel. plus pence punches back. the former vp taking on his old
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boss on the campaign trail. but would pence support trump if he becomes the party's nominee? and later, a race against time in ukraine to get clean drinking water to hundreds of thousands in the flood zone of a destroyed dal. subway just keeps getting better. break it down candace. they got world class bakers to develop their tastiest bread yet. this truly makes the subway series a dream team. you know about that chuck. yeah, i was the bread of that team too. try the subway series menu. their tastiest refresh yet.
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(vo) this is sadie. she's on verizon, and she has the new myplan where she gets exactly what she wants and only pays for what she needs. she picks only the perks she wants and saves on every one! all with an incredible new iphone. act now and get iphone 14 pro on us when you switch. it's your verizon. more than 100 million people in the u.s. are suffering under air quality alerts buzz of those canadian wildfires. a lot of us woke up to a hazy orange sunrise. take a look at this. this is a time lapse of the iconic new york city skyline yesterday from 11:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. look at how that orange haze just consumes the substitute. conditions are now most dangerous in the midatlantic prompting a lot to reach for those pandemic era masks or stay indoors. and travel trouble, flights are delayed in philadelphia and new
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york because of such bad visibility with them saying it expects to impact flights up and down the east coast. george solis is live at philadelphia international airport. and angie lasman is tracking where conditions are worse and what's next. what is the latest with all these flight issues and how are travelers coping? >> reporter: first off, i don't think anyone can get that image out of their heads of that orange skyline. the air quality just as bad here in philadelphia. the fog and the smoke so thick you couldn't see the skyline here either. as far as the air travel is concerned, while the faa did temporarily stop incoming flights here at the airport, they have just announced they have resumed, but obviously this is a cat and mouse game. they don't know how much longer the wind will be here and if the smoke is going to get any heavier. so that could change. so right now, airlines and the faa urging everyone to keep a
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close tab on their flights to see if there will be anymore delays throughout the day. i spoke with a number of travelers, many wearing the pandemic-era mask. but they understand that the air quality is very dangerous right now, not just for the people who with health conditions, but everyone because of this dense smoke in the area. take a listen to what they told me about their travel today. >> this is the first time i have worn a mask since we had to for the pandemic. >> the air quality is really bad. my eyes are burning. i can feel it in the back of my throat. when we're outdoors, we're wearing a mask for sure. >> reporter: right now, just looking at the air quality, things slightly improving. we're now moving away from the very hazardous to the very unhealthy. obviously, still very dangerous. that could change throughout the day as we have seen this kind of ebb and flow with the winds.
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speaking of airports, we do see there are flight delays at newark nationwide. this is one of those things we have to stay on top of and will be monitoring throughout the day. the key thing here is that smoke is still very dangerous. so limit your time outdoors and if you can, definitely wear those masks. >> and the images of how fast that sky turned orange is so striking. the wildfires are still burning in canada. there were hundreds of them at last check. how long is this going to last? >> it's incredible when you see those images hour by hour pictures of new york city. no surprise we topped the charts as far as the worst air quality across the country, but notable, detroit was number five on that list. we have seen minor improvements in it some spots today. i say minor buzz we're dealing with dangerous conditions as far as air quality is concerned. 100 million people are dealing with the unhealthy air, specifically related to wildfires. we have 120 million, so an extra 20 million people because of
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ozone, but that's into parts of the plains. you can see the worst of it stretches from washington, d.c. into pennsylvania. that's where you see the ploon color, including harrisburg, philadelphia, right on that line of hazardous to unhealthy, which is in the purple. the numbers so far, it's still hanging out in the 300s. so these numbers, especially for new york v had slight improvements. a little worse through the midatlantic. but as we look ahead, this is 5:00 today. you can see we're starting to see some improvements farther to the north in places north of new york. still dealing with the haze. still dealing with smoke working in. we'll continue to see improvements here as we get into your friday and especially into your saturday and sunday. winds will switch and see major improvements much better for being outdoors. >> i can't wait until the weekend for so many reasons, this being one of them. thank you so much for staying on top of it for us.
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in moments, we'll talk with transportation secretary pete buttigieg for more on how these wildfires and smoke are impacting air travel. up next, from mike pence to chris christie, we'll have the 2024 campaign reaction to the legal whirlwind around donald trump. plus how donald trump's former right-hand convenient is throwing his loyalty out the window now. throwing his loyaltye window now
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breaking news, a major decision on voting rights. i want to bring in laura jarrett. along with julia ainsley. >> this is a significant ruling for voting rights advocates that had sued trying to say the way that alabama had gone about drawing their congressional maps after the census, they had said that had violated the voting act rights, which prohibits race discrimination. today the supreme court agreed that the lower court got it right, and that in fact, alabama had violated section 2 of the voting rights act. it's a divided supreme court. you have the chief justice writing it on behalf of his colleagues here, joined by the three liberals and justice kavanaugh. but the opt shot is the voting rights has been preserved.
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there had been a lot of questions about whether this court was prepared to hollow it out as it has with other sections of the voting rights act, but today the court decided not to go that far and to uphold section two. it's an interesting decision. it has notable that we're going to have to work through. also we're going to have to work through those and see if the shot here is that section two has been upheld. >> so talk to us about what was at stake with this decision. >> the stakes were high here. if the justices had agreed or disagreed with the lower court and said that alabama's law did not violate section two of the voting rights act, that could have weakened the voting rights act. but the stakes remain high. there's another decision yet to be decided. we don't have that yet. it will come out this term regarding a north carolina law
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that weakens the court's abilities to jump in and intervene if the legislature is coming up with voting rules that they could be in violation. still more to come to see if this court may decide, but in this opinion, they said that, yes, the state of alabama did violate section two of the voting rights act because they say that means they could have been operating in a racially motivated way. that under the constitution no one should have their rights taken away based on their race. this law would have done that. so quite significant that even as conservative as this court has become, they still believe that section two needs to be upheld. there is significant decent. we're reading through that, because that could give more signs of how the conservative justices do fall on this issue and it could give us a light on where they may go going forward. as for today, this strengthens the voting right act and sends a message to states that may try to weaken it that even with this
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conservative bench here, this one simply went too far. >> so melissa, given this is a conservative supreme court, 6-3 in terms of the balance, are you surprised with their decision? >> it is a surprising decision by john roberts, who has been no fan of the voting rights act. i would disagree that this strengthens the voting rights act. the court has done great work over the course of the last ten years. and just two terms ago, the court hobbled parts of section two, the same section that was at issue here today. it's also important to remember that although this is a narrow victory upholding the provibss for allowing for litigants to bring claims, this court in february 2022, the same court that now says the district court
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was correct in its assessment, in february 2022 when this case was presented on the shadow docket, this court stayed the opinion and allowed the gerrymandered map to go into effect. that was the map that was in place during the midterm elections of november 2022. where it is widely believed that the force of gerrymandered really helped to alter the balance of power in the u.s. house of representatives. so this is a victory for the voting rights act, but it's cold comfort after this court allowed a gerrymandered map to be used in the midterm election depriving of a fair and just election. >> now the supreme court is saying alabama's rule makers went too far in designing the ma. however, we're looking ahead to 2024. there's some local election this is year. given this ruling, what do you see as the impact?
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>> this court has been chipping away at the voting rights act. the impact for now, those preserve the status quo in terms of the use of section two. it reads to me like this is one of robert' last ditch efforts to really wheeled his power as a deal maker as the chief justice. there maybe a strong feeling, as they were negotiating over this opinion, of roberts' concern over the prestige that the court has lost recently with all these issues coming out about conflicts of interest, the fallout from overturning roe v. wade. the chief justice looks to broker something that they think is most palettable for the public and the court's position. this seems like that can be uncompromised. we have to read something in to see that the conservative justices here continued to buld their records to move forward towards a further evisceration
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of the voting rights act. >> does this give you any indication as to what we might see with the other big decisions we're awaiting? >> i think it's too hard to tell. obviously, justice roberts has certainly been viewed searching for consensus in certain cases. but that's not always the case. and so i think it's too hard to sort of look at this and read the tea leaves on what might happen in some of the other cases that we're looking at. they have another voting-related case in front of them. that one having to do with how north carolina drew up its maps and they haven't decided that even though there's been some speculation that they could have dismised that way and that one is mute and gotten rid of it, they haven't done that yet, which is notable. we need to wait to see what they do on that one as well as a host of other ones involving the use of racism and the student loan
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forgiveness plan. >> more than 20 cases still left to be decided by the supreme court this term in just the next few weeks. thank you so much. appreciate all of you. so let's turn back now to the other big news this morning. millions of americans under air quality alerts, major disruption to travel because of that wildfire smoke coming from canada. and joining us now is the secretary of transportation pete buttigieg. mr. secretary, thank you for making time for us. what's your message to travelers trying to cope with all this smoke and now maybe stranded or dealing with some significant delays? >> unfortunately, the smoke is impacting visibility in a big way, particularly in the airports in the new york area, laguardia, jfk, newark. the airports in the d.c. area and also philadelphia, so there have been ground delay programs. as of now, there are no ground
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stops, but those were required earlier at some of those airports. we'll be seeing this for awhile. if there's good news, it's that this has led to relatively few cancellations. we have been able to keep the system going through ground delay programs, but certainly, if you're planning a trip today or in the next few days, you want to keep a close tab on the airline information that you can get through your app because it's likely if you're going through these affected airports that those delays are going to affect you. some of these are major hubs. that's going to have impacts for these airlines as well. >> nearly 5,000 flights were delayed yesterday. it seemed like this happened very quickly. what are you doing today to get flights in the air as best you can? >> faa has a lot of experience dealing with low visibility situations. so on a regular basis, not only end of day and beginning of day coordination sessions at the center sitting side by side with
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airline operational leaders, but that gets refreshed on a two-hour cadence to optimize and coordinate every way we can. the conditions are what they are. so there will be continued concern as long as you have those visibility problems. typically if you had to do a ground delay program because there's a the lot of fog, the fog lifts and visibility is restored. what's unusual about this volume and intensity of smoke is it's creating the same kind of visibility conditions this you'd see if you had foggy conditions or a storm system coming through. but they are persisting for hours and even for days. but there's excellent coordination happening between the airlines, the faa, try to make sure that those issues are being taken in stride, that the delays can be accommodated as
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efficiently as possible. and most importantly of all, the top priority any time we face any disruption or anything else impacting the system is always going to be safety. even if that means things have to go more slowly, they are going it to make sure everything is going safely. >> my i eyes are getting itchy just looking at those images. it was thick here in new york certainly yesterday walking around a little bit. i wish i had grabbed a mask when i walked out the door. i felt like we didn't get a lot of wark. do you think anything more could have been done to get people ready? >> this did arrive pretty suddenly. obviously, i'm no meteorologist, i don't know how predictable or not the wind patterns are that are carrying this. what i do know is from a flight safety perspective, we can get detailed information and make predictions in the coming hours
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to help make the best of the situation that we have as we try to get those hubs back up to normal status. but i felt it getting to work this morning. a lot of americans in the eastern half of the u.s. are experiencing something that americans in the west have been no strangeer to over several recent years. just the shocking experience of opening the door and looking out the window and seeing a sky that doesn't look the way it's supposed to look. it's one more reason why we need to be paying a lot of attention to resilience in sustainability as we go deeper into this part of the 21st century. >> i'm a coloradoen. i spent also about a decade in the pacific northwest. and you're right, these wildfires are something people who live in that part of the country have had to deal with for a long time. but now it's the smoke from our neighbors to the north. people are pointing to this as a sign of the warming planet. it's just the beginning,
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unfortunately, of what we could continue to see. do you agree? is our infrastructure at all ready? >> we have been warned that whether we're talking about wildfires or storms that are going to be more frequent, more extreme events in our lifetime. yes, we are working to prepare our infrastructure for this. part of what's in president biden's infrastructure package is a first of its kind, multibillion-dollar program to make our infrastructure more resilient. there's so many different ways that our transportation infrastructure is being affected. today in an obvious way, this wildfire smoke affecting flights, a couple days a ago i was in north dakota where we're helping to take out a railroad crossing that's been a headache in that community, they were telling me some of the roadways have been buckling. this is happening in the country due to extreme heat. transit systems have been affect ed. we have funding that's going into making our infrastructure more resill yebt in a way that recognizes that if what used to
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be a thousand-year flood is now a frequent occurrence. there's some roads in this country that need to go to a different place than where they were before. we're not just taking this as it comes. we're trying to prevent it from getting worse. we're focused on more sustainable infrastructure for the future. that's why we're getting those ev chargers out there. that's why we're marking sure there are more excellent and clean public transit options out there. we're buying zero emission buss for cities. that means cleaner air every day and doing our part with the climate challenge. for parts of the sector that are very hard to move to a zero emissions platform, think maritime, aviation, we're also working on more sustainable fuels, more sustainable ways to propel the ships that our supply chains count on. this will be a big topic of discussion when i meet with counterparts a at the g7 next week as we come together in japan to try to forge ahead. these problems are not going away. we have to be prepared. >> we appreciate you taking the
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time. thank you so much. pete buttigieg, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. up next, 2024, how former vice president mike pence, now prlt candidate, is taking on his former boss. , is take ing on his former boss. is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect these freedoms for us and for the future, and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union. will you join us? call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month, only $0.63
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a day, will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for free speech, liberty and justice. your support is more urgently needed than ever. reproductive rights are on the line and we are looking at going backwards. we have got to be here. we've got to be strong to protect those rights. so please join the aclu now. call or go to my aclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt member card magazine and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people,
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means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. maisha: shared leadership has to do with... michael: acknowledging parents as equal partners. narrator: california's community schools. grant: community schools lift the voices of folks that have traditionally not been heard whether they're parents, students, community groups. john: it's shared decision-making with parents. they're saying that these are the priorities that they want to see for their kids. wendy: it allows us to create the school that our students deserve. rafael: community schools are innovative, and they're working. narrator: california's community schools: reimagining public education.
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mike pence had a strong rebuke of his former boss. but then, rebuffed a potential indictment of donald trump. here was pence earlier on wednesday coming out swinging against trump as he announced his 2024 bid in iowa. >> president trump's words were reckless. he endangered my family and everyone at the capitol. but the american people deserve to know that on that day, president trump also demanded that i choose between him and the constitution. i chose the constitution. and i always will.
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>> and here was pence later in the day at a cnn town hall when asked about the possibility of trump facing an indictment in the special counsel probe. >> indicting a former president of the united states sends a terrible message to th world. i hope the doj thinks better about it. >> i want to clarify what you're saying is that if they believe he committed a crime, they should not go forward with with an indictment? you just talked before about committing to the rule of law. >> no one is above the law. >> joining us from iowa is correspondent dasha burns. also with us is host of simone on msnbc simone townsend. and elise jordan. great to see you. are we seeing a new pence, one that's prepared to take opt trump, but maybe only willing to go so far? >> reporter: it's interesting.
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that speech yesterday was pretty spicy. that is not a word that i would typically use to describe mike pence. he was much more direct and much sharper than we have ever heard him when it comes to his former boss. but as you showed later on, he sort of started to hedge his words again. no one who puts himself above the constitution should be president. and later in an interview, excuse me, we have some sirens here. later he said he would support the republican nominee, whoever that is. and that could very well be trump looking at the polls right now we expect him to be at this pizza ranch behind me later today. it's one of 71 here in iowa. his campaign says he will be stopping at every one of those locations in the course of his campaign. he really believes that iowa is the way to do this. but we're going to be watching as he really threads this needle even in that spicy speech, while he went after his former boss, he touted as a success of the
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trump administration. he's really threading a needle here in terms of how he tackles his time serving alongside the former president that he now says is not fit to serve. >> i'm so impressed that you were able to stay on message there with that siren behind you. amazing. we played that clip of pence basically saying trump was against the constitution. but then he started to have some mixed messaging throughout the day. let's listen to some more. >> you believe that anyone who puts themselves over the constitution should never be president of the united states. and anyone who asks someone else to put them over the constitution should never be president of the united states again. i will absolutely support the republican nominee for president in 2024. especially if it's me. >> how can you say you'd support
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him if he was the nominee? >> i don't think donald trump is going to be the nominee. >> what if he is? >> i don't think he is. >> that wasn't a trick question. but why not answer the question directly. >> pure politics. there's so many republican voters who still think favorably of donald trump, who are going to turn out for the primaies. he knows that he can't completely alienate them. he's trying to thread a very difficult needle of building the case that donald trump is anti-constitution and try to appeal to conservatives through that line of argument. then at the same time, not completely rejecting what pence sees as the accomplishments of the trump administration. >> what's your reaction to pence suggesting it was bad for the country for the doj to indict trump, if that's what happens? >> look, i think to be very
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clear, former vice president pence is not the only one who made this assertion. journalists have made this assertion. democrats have made the assertion. random people on twitter said it wouldn't be good for our democracy. but i think if we really say that in this country no one is above the law, we should mean it. and the reality is that we have yet to ever hold a president, former or current, accountable. the question is will that happen in the case of donald trump. it remains to be seen. >> here's how chris christie, who is also a former prosecutor, answered a similar question. >> having done that for seven years, i know you never know when someone's getting indictmented. the only person who probably knows in this instance is the special counsel. i will wait to react. >> do you think either answered that question well related to a trump indictment?
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it's not the topic these candidates want to focus on. >> they are smart not to speculate as to what's going to happen because we don't know. that's the truth of the matter right now. there are predictions to be made, but no one knows exactly how it's going to go down. it certainly looks bad for donald trump. politically, it's a smart move for pence and for chris christie because they just do not want to alienate republican voters, who still are favorably disposed to donald trump. >> i do wonder more broadly what might be the political impact if trump is indicted by the special counsel. what do you think? >> i have been thinking about this because the reality is this. the former president has been under legal scrutiny for a very long time. he has since been indicted in a separate case in new york. he didn't lose support after
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that indictment. so i think that there's a difference between the political ram any fist indications and what the legal ramifications are for donald trump. the legal ramifications, if the special counsel decides to move forward with charges, would definitely be drastic and damning. the political ramiications, though, the former president may not meet any. that does not mean that the legal folks should not do their jobs and press forward. as elise has said, many of the voters are still with the former president. they like what he did when he was president. and they want the donald trump that ran in 2016 to show up again. if he does, they very well could vote for him. that's why mike pence's argument is so interesting. he said in his announcement, donald trump said he would govern as a conservative. he's not making that promise now. that is why he should not be your nominee.
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>> thank you all for being part of the discussion. you can always catch her weekends at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. up next, moment of justice. the suspect in the disappearance of natalie holt well should be on u.s. soil. the counteroffensive against russia has begun. we're live from eastern ukraine, next. we're live from eastern ukraine, next (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. your work is your calling. it drives your days and powers your nights. but if your teeth no longer work as hard as you do, aspen dental is here with smile replacement solutions that work for your life. whether it's your first step, or a fast fix, you can get in today for all your denture needs,
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we're back with more breaking news from ukraine this morning. ukraine's long awaited counteroffensive has begun, according to a senior officer and soldier in the zaporizhzhia region. and that's where we find our nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez who helped break this news. what more can you tell us about this ukrainian counteroffensive? >> reporter: well, ana, after months of planning, of training, of marshalling their forces, ukraine's long awaited counteroffensive is now under way. that is as you said according to a senior ukrainian officer and soldier here in zaporizhzhia who spoke to nbc news. neither would go into detail about where exactly ukrainian forces are attacking, or what their objectives are, but we do know that there is intense fighting under way at this hour, along this hundreds of mile long front line in the east and south
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of ukraine, including just east of where we are now in zaporizhzhia. ukraine's deputy defense minister says russian forces are on the defensive here in this region. now, just stepping back for a minute, u.s. officials have said that this counteroffensive, many months in the making is potentially ukraine's best chance to make significant gains on the battlefield. ukraine is right now flush with western weapons, including those battle tanks, from the european nations. they have long-range missiles. they do not yet have those f-16 fighter jets that they are hoping for. and russian forces are depleted after nine, ten months of very intense fighting around the city of bakhmut. but that is no guarantee of ukrainian success. officials here are expecting a long hard fight ahead. but what happens here over the course of this counteroffensive has the potential to shape the endgame here in ukraine, in this war, whether it is in the form of improving ukraine's
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negotiating position at a future peace talks, or whether ukraine is able to fulfill what it says is its true objective, which is liberating every inch of this country, including the territory that russia occupied back in 2014. ana? >> quickly, if you will, raf, what is the latest on the flooding in the kherson region and the evacuations there after that dam was destroyed? >> reporter: yes, so ukrainian officials say they're managing a humanitarian disaster and environmental disaster and they are doing it in the middle of an active war zone. they have evacuated 2,000 people from the west bank of the dnipro river, the bank controlled by ukrainian forces. but they say even as those evacuations were under way, russian forces were shelling the area. now, president zelenskyy was down in kherson earlier, a trip not without risk, given that it is within artillery range of russian forces. he says he wants to see the international community really step up its efforts to help
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civilians here. and ukrainian authorities are also saying they are very, very concerned about civilians on the russian occupied eastern bank of the river, who they say are basically managing this situation without help. ana? raf sanchez, thank you so much for all of that information. we also have breaking news from peru right now. the main suspect in the high profile disappearance of alabama student natalee holloway was handed over to fbi officers in peru this morning, where he was put on a plane to the u.s. so, joran van der sloot is heading this way, he's facing charges for allegedly trying to extort holloway's family for information on where they could find her body. but you'll recall, he was never charged in holloway's 2005 disappearance. he's currently serving a prison sentence in peru for the 2012 murder of a woman there. nbc news correspondent guad venegas is in peru for us. talk to us about how this
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process is going down today. >> reporter: ana, he arrived earlier today here at the military sanction of the lima airport escorted by many agents. he's been spent back to the -- he's not back, he's been sent to the u.s. and will be back to peru after the process. this isn't technically an extradition, it is a temporary surrender. the peruvian government agreed to turn him over to american authorities so he can face these charges in the u.s., these are the fraud and extortion charges in relationship to the disappearance of natalee holloway. so, earlier today, we were here, when arrived, fbi agents were waiting inside the airport where the exchange happened. he did go through a medical test. they boarded that government plane that is headed back to the u.s. where this legal process will take place. now, with that temporary surrender, after that trial takes place in the u.s., regardless of what happens, he will have to return to peru to finish serving that 28-year
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sentence before he was transferred here, he had been in one of the worst prisons in latin america, a prison in southern peru, up in the andes at 5,000 meters. it is expected he'll be returning there to serve the remaining of those 28 years and only after that he would then be able to return to the u.s. to face any time as a result of these charges. now, ana, i've been speaking to people in peru, i had a conversation with a business man who is very well known, a prominent business man who is the father of stephany flores, the woman that was killed by van der sloot here in peru. and he tells me that people of peru wanted to see him sent to the united states because they believe that once he begins his process in the u.s., with american investigators looking into the case, although he has not been charged with the disappearance of natalee holloway, these are charges related to fraud and extortion, they do believe that somehow
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american investigators might be able to uncover more details that can give some information as to what could have happened to natalee holloway, ana. >> can't we all hope that's the case. guad venegas, thank you for your reporting. now, the youngest volcano on hawaii's big island is going through its rebellious years. mount kilauea erupting yesterday, spewing lava high into the sky and elevating the local volcano alert level. thankfully there have been no injuries. the risk to infrastructure or human life remains low. but there is the danger of, quote, volcanic smog or haze that appears with volcanic gas mixing with the atmosphere. local officials are urging residents to take precautions. that does it for us today. see you back here tomorrow, friday. same time, same place. until then, reporting from new york, i'm ana cabrera. our coverage continues right now with jose diaz-balart. good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. breaking

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