michael jackson stuff. days later, following the couple's valentine's dinner, eric became very ill and told a friend he thought his wife was trying to poison him. prosecutors are allege kouri then purchased more fentanyl and less than a month later, eric was dead. and kouri claiming to be grief stricken, dedicated this book to her husband, calling him a wonderful father. >> i took things that my kids have said to me this last year and we kind of articulated it and put it into a story. >> reporter: kouri is charged with one count of aggravated murder and three additional felony drug charges. she has yet to enter a plea and her attorney declined to comment at this time. richins is expected in court next week. back to you. >> erin mclaughlin, thank you. thank you for being with us. that does it for us. jose diaz-balart picks up our coverage right now. good morning. 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. breaking a short time ago,

republican congressman george santos who admitted to lying about parts of his background arrested. he is in federal custody this morning. we have the 13 count indictment and we'll break down the very serious charges he's facing. moments from now, homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas is set to give live remarks on operations at the southern border, one day before the health restrictions known as title 42 were set to be lifted. we're live on both sides of the border as the amount of people seeking asylum trying to seek asylum continues to build. and e. jean carroll speaking out one day after a federal jury found donald trump liable for sexually abusing and defaming her. we'll play for you what she had to say. in washington, a standoff between president biden and top republicans with just weeks to go before what could be a catastrophic default on the nation's debt. and we are following breaking news at this hour.

right now, new york republican congressman george santos is in federal custody after a 13-count indictment was unsealed this morning. santos faces seven counts of wire fraud, three counts of money laundering, one count of theft of public funds, and two counts of making materially false statements to the house of representatives. he will be arianed this afternoon. santos previously faced controversy, admitting to lying about parts of his background. joining us now are nbc's rehema ellis outside the courthouse in new york, and nbc's ali vitali on capitol hill and catherine christian, former assistant district attorney at the manhattan district attorney's office, she is now an msnbc legal analyst. so, rehema, good morning. what is the latest out of the courthouse? >> reporter: we can tell you, jose, that santos entered this courthouse outside of the view of cameras, we believe through an underground parking garage and is undergoing the processing of what it takes once one is

brought into custody. and is facing these federal charges. as you mentioned, this 13-count indictment was unsealed today. it was -- it was returned by the federal grand jury yesterday here in islip, new york. it includes fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds and false statements. the hearing will occur later this afternoon. he's expected to enter a not guilty plea, despite the fact that several local representatives asked him to step down so this district could be properly represented. i asked a man who here was leaving the courthouse if he was surprised by the charges against george santos. he said absolutely not. then i asked if he thinks santos will step down. he said flatly no. and it is important to mention that santos just recently filed his intention for re-election. jose? >> catherine, what do you make of these counts? how serious are there? >> very serious.

you know, the question wasn't whether or not he would be indicted, the question would be when. he's being accused of using public funds to buy designer clothes. it is a 19-page indictment. i'm not a speed reader, just going through it, he used allegedly public funds to buy designer clothes. he was working and making over $100,000, but he falsely claimed he was unemployed and received $24,000 in unemployment benefits. he lied allegedly on federal disclosure funds. so these are very serious charges. money laundering, wire fraud, making false statements in congress. theft of public funds. very, very serious. yes, he's innocent until proven guilty. these are very serious allegations. >> and, so, catherine, if proven guilty on any of them, what kind of -- what could he be facing? >> he could be facing -- we call it double digit, double digit times, if he's convicted of any

of these charges. and, you know, is george santos his real name? if he goes to trial, it will be very interesting. these are -- many of these charges are all backed up, i bet you, without a doubt by documents. you know, he's accused of lying on disclosure forms. the documents are there. it is very easy to determine whether or not, you know, he was unemployed when he said he was. well, they're going to see he was working because he was receiving income, but now he's getting $24,000 unemployment. this is what you call paper cases. it is very hard to contest the documents. it is what it is. he has a tough road ahead of him. but he is innocent until he's proven guilty. >> absolutely important to state that. ali, meanwhile, how is his standing on capitol hill? >> reporter: well, we're hearing a lot of that. exactly what we just heard, innocent until proven guilty. that's the line that many in house gop leadership have begun

to echo, even as they say that these charges are concerning, people like speaker mccarthy are not going so far as to say what others in the republican party are saying, which is that santos should resign. we asked mccarthy last night, you see him there on the screen, he said because he was in debt ceiling meetings, he didn't get a chance to see what was happening with santos and then this morning, mccarthy was read the charges and reiterated that it is concerning, but that he has to go through the process. now, that's not to say that because mccarthy says he's going to wait it out means that other republicans here are willing to do the same. you have, of course, people in the new york delegation from santos' own party saying he should resign. and congressman tony gonzalez of texas saying he should be expelled. and that call for expulsion would require a two-thirds vote here in congress. frankly they would probably have the numbers to do it, but that tweet and that call for action, again, places the call for action at the feet of speaker mccarthy, who, again, to land us right where we started, is basically saying that he wants

to wait this out, jose, that's because of the numerical reality here in his republican majority, it is very slim, he needs all the republicans he can get, and santos is an important part of that number. >> and so, ali, he announced, i guess, as we were just hearing that he plans to run for re-election. is there anything that could make that even more difficult for him? >> reporter: i think it is pretty much as difficult as it is going to get. voters there and rehema knows this because she's there and talking to folks, but reporters who we had go to this district for months now have all said the same thing, which is that they know that he is someone who has lied, they knew that legal charges could be coming. frankly several of our court watchers said this might not be the last of the legal charges that we end up seeing around george santos and so the idea that this could be a continuation of the drip, drip, drip we saw when it was just written allegations, now not legal allegations made in court is just something else that

republicans are now going to have to deal with in congress and that, of course, would extend to any campaign trail that santos finds himself on. the fact he says he's running for re-election, okay. but it doesn't mean that it is going to change the voters' minds, especially as we see him get further mired into the legal quagmires, frankly, of his own alleged making. >> and so, ali, if he does and he said over and over again that he has no plans for resign, for example, what would happen for that -- to that house seat? >> we would see a special election called in short order by the new york governor. and you have to imagine that republicans know that this is going to be a tough seat for them to hold on to, but because of the numbers here, and because of the way that they're already exercising their majority on such slim margins, they're going to do everything they can to hold on to that seat. democrats already have people planning to run in that race. again, it is early because there is no special election at this point. we're a year and a half plus out

from election day, you see candidates trying to till the soil in the long island area of new york trying to highlight the fact that they could take this seat from santos. i think, jose, the important thing to remember here is new york really was the place where majorities were made for republicans in 2022. that cluster of republicans who were able to flip seats in my hometown in westchester county, santos' seat, all of those are the places where mccarthy was able to make his majority. it is why republicans know it is going to be very difficult for them when this ends up going to another ballot for them to hold on to that seat. they desperately want to and i think it is why we're watching mccarthy again continue to slow walk the idea that santos shouldn't resign, but the process should play out, and that he should keep that seat with an r next to it for as long as he can. >> rehema ellis, ali vitali, thank you very much. catherine christian, stay with us. we'll have you back in a few moments. we want to talk about the growing humanitarian crisis at the southern border as title 42

is set to be lifted at 11:59 p.m. eastern time on thursday night. i'll bring you the live pictures out of washington, d.c., where we're waiting for homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas to this morning he stated to provide an update on planning and operations ahead of the lifting of title 42. as you can see, there are people waiting for him. the podium is set up. just a matter of moments when he begins his remarks. of course, we will bring them to you. these comments come as chaos and confusion grow along the border, as does the humanitarian crisis. three homeland security department sources tell nbc news more than 11,000 migrants were detained crossing the border yesterday alone. they also say the biden administration is now preparing a memo that will direct customs and border protection to begin releasing migrants into the u.s.

without court dates or without the ability to track them. this as president biden admits the next couple of weeks will be, quote, challenging. >> it is going to be chaotic for a while. and it is an example, when they said we're going to cut and no spending more money, what happens? if you cut, you cut people at the border? you're going to cut agents at the border? we need more at the border, not less at the border. >> nbc news senior national correspondent tom llamas joins us from mexico. tom, good morning. great to see you. we're just expecting in about 45 seconds or so secretary mayorkas to speak. if so, we'll go to that live. give us an update of where you are this morning. >> reporter: yeah, jose, we're on the border as you mentioned in juarez. behind me, beyond that barbed wire fence is el paso.

you see migrants waiting here and the sun is up, it is going to get hot. we saw this same scene yesterday, about 90 degrees and a lot of children out here. what is striking to me is -- >> tom? >> reporter: okay, back to you. >> right to alejandro mayorkas. >> good morning and thank you for joining us this morning. to my left is the acting commissioner of u.s. customs and border protection troy miller, ricardo zeniga to my right from the united states department of state. as you know, on thursday, tomorrow, may 11th, at 11:59 p.m. eastern time, the title 42 public health order will terminate. at that point we will once again process people at our southern border using our immigration enforcement authorities under title 8 of the united states code. our overall approach is to build lawful pathways for people to come to the united states and to impose tougher consequences on those who choose not to use

those pathways. we are taking this approach within the constraints of a broken immigration system that congress has not fixed for more than two decades. and without the resources we need, personnel, facilities, transportation, and others that we have requested of congress and that we were not given. we have seen the effectiveness of our approach. more than 100,000 people from cuba, haiti, nicaragua, and venezuela have arrived lawfully through the pathway we have made available to them. and we reduced border encounters from these groups by 90% between december of last year and march of this year. our president has led the largest expansion of lawful pathways ever. at the same time, we are clear-eyed about the challenges we are likely to face in the days and weeks ahead, which have the potential to be very

difficult. even after nearly two years of preparation we expect to see large numbers of encounters at our southern border in the days and weeks after may 11th. we are already seeing high numbers of encounters in certain sectors. this places an incredible strain on our personnel, facilities, and our communities with whom we partner closely. our plan will deliver results, but it will take time for those results to be fully realized, and it is essential that we all take this into account. i cannot overemphasize that our current situation is the outcome of congress leaving a broken, outdated immigration system in place for over two decades, despite unanimous agreement that we desperately need legislative reform. it is also the result of congress' decision not to provide us with the resources we need and that we requested.

our efforts within the constraints of our broken immigration system are focused on ensuring that the process is safe, orderly and humane, all while protecting our dedicated workforce and our communities. let me be clear. the lifting of the title 42 public health order does not mean our border is open. in fact, it is the contrary. our use of immigration enforcement authorities under title 8 of the united states code means tougher consequences for people who cross the border illegally. unlike under title 42, an individual who is removed under title 8 is subject to at least a five-year bar on re-entry into the united states and can face criminal prosecution if they attempt to cross again. smugglers have long been hard at

work spreading false information that the border will be open after may 11th. it will not be. they are lying. to people who are thinking of making the journey to our southern border, know this, the smugglers care only about profit, not people. they do not care about you or your well-being. do not believe their lies. do not risk your life and your life savings only to be removed from the united states if and when you arrive here. today we are beginning a new digital advertising campaign in central and south america to counter the lies of the smugglers with accurate information about u.s. immigration laws. this campaign adds to our extensive ongoing communications efforts in the region. as you can see, by the images

before us, of removal flights and encounters with our border patrol agents, we are making it very clear that our border is not open, that crossing irregularly is against the law, and that those who are not eligible for relief will be quickly returned. do not listen to the lies of the smugglers. this is what will happen to you. you will be returned. today, alongside the department of justice, we are finalizing a new rule to encourage individuals to use available, lawful, safe and orderly pathways to enter the united states. the rule presumes that those who do not use lawful pathways to enter the united states are ineligible for asylum. it allows the united states, it allows us to remove individuals who do not establish a reasonable fear of persecution

in the country of removal. noncitizens can rebut this presumption only in very limited circumstances. for example, if they have used our lawful pathways or sought asylum or protection in another country trough which they have traveled and were denied. this rule goes into effect once the title 42 public health order terminates tomorrow. on thursday, at 11:59 p.m. eastern time. what i have just described are only a few elements of an expansive effort that began in 2021 to our tougher immigration enforcement authorities. in addition to obtaining the first increase this border patrol agent hiring in over a decade, the first in over a decade, we are in the process of

surging personnel to the border including more than 1,400 dhs personnel. 1,000 processing coordinators, and an additional 1,500 department of defense personnel. all of these individuals will allow our law enforcement officers to stay in the field and focus on their critical mission. we are delivering on tougher consequences for unlawful entry, including the return, removal and expulsion of more than 665,000 people during first half of this fiscal year. we are conducting dozens of removal flights per week and we continue to increase our removal flight capability. we are increasing our efficiency and reducing processing times at the border. we launched the cvp 1 app, which in its first four months helped

83,000 individuals schedule an appointment at a port of entry and we're taking steps to expand available appointments. we bolstered the capacity of local governments and ngos, just last week we announced the distribution of an additional $332 million to support communities along the southern border and in the interior of our country. we are leading an unprecedented law enforcement disruption campaign that has led to the arrest of nearly 10,000 smugglers who profit from vulnerable immigrants. knowing that this is a regional challenge that requires a regional solution, we continue to work with countries throughout the americas to deter irregular migration. this includes a coordinated campaign with colombia and panama to prevent individuals from following ruthless smugglers into the very dangerous derrian and we're

working with our partners in mexico regularly on a range of issues. we are a nation of immigrants. we are also a nation of laws. our immigration laws today are outdated. the solution we are implementing are the best available within our current legal authority. but they are short-term solutions to a decades old problem. the kind of migration we continue to see today requires more resources, resources we have requested and have not received, clearer authority and modernized processes that only congress can deliver. we urge it to do so. now i think we'll take some questions. >> thank you, mr. secretary. we just have seen some images from texas showing texas

national guard and dps physically blocking migrants from climbing up the river banks and accessing u.s. soil. does the department believe that's a legal enforcement posture by the state of texas? >> nick, i'm going to leave it to the -- our department of justice to speak to the lawfulness or lack thereof those actions. i will tell you this, that our border patrol agents and our officers work very closely with the department of public safety in texas on the ground when it is a coordinated and collaborative effort. it is essential that law enforcement work as one team to address the challenge of the southern border. >> thank you, mr. secretary. how many interviews do you expect to conduct on a daily basis and are you confident that will keep up with the number of

apprehensions you all are seeing and expect to see? >> we are -- the department of homeland security -- with one of our agencies, u.s. citizenship and immigration services, is indeed surging asylum officers to border patrol facilities as well as to immigration and customs enforcement detention facilities to conduct an unprecedented number of credible fear screenings under the asylum rule that is going to be implemented beginning upon the end of title 42. we are surging approximately 1,000 or more asylum officers for that purpose. it is very important to note that the asylum rule will take effect if individuals do not access their lawful pathways, the pathways we have made available to them, they will face a rebutable presumption, but a presumption of

ineligibility for asylum. they will have to meet a higher bar. this president, our president, has led the expansion of lawful pathways more than anyone else in our history. >> yes, secretary, we have read the administration has been -- releasing migrants -- we observed migrants being vetted for an hour and released with a permit to stay in the country for a year. i wonder how that process is being done and how secure you are for those vettings? >> so, u.s. customs and border protection screens and vets individual whom we encounter. individuals, the vast majority of individuals will be returned. those who do not qualify from border patrol stations or immigration and customers enforcement detention

facilities. we often, as has every administration released individuals into immigration enforcement proceedings, and those individuals, they do not qualify for relief, will be removed. we screen and vet individuals whom we encounter. >> if i may -- >> thank you, mr. secretary. just to follow up on the credible fear question, can you give us an idea of what percentage of migrants you think will be receiving the screenings? is it almost half, some? and can you also speak to the agreement with mexico? i know you guys have specifically said they're planning to take back from four nationalities, but is there a possibility they would take back any other nationalities as well? >> michelle, let me break it

down a little bit. we are giving the option to individuals who are in our custody the option of voluntarily returning to the country from which they came because of the consequence of a removal. people have to understand that under title 8 of the united states code, when one is removed, one faces at least a five-year bar to re-entry. and so we will give people an opportunity to avoid that tougher consequence by voluntarily returning. if they do not take that option, and they do not claim fear, they will be removed immediately. if they do claim fear, they will encounter a higher threshold under our asylum rule unless they have access to our lawful

pathways or sought relief in another country and been denied. we are surging asylum officers to ensure that screening process, that credible fear screening process, is done fairly, with access to counsel, but expeditiously. >> how do americans gain from the immigration path you're opening, sir? nobody asked this question. do americans gain from all the immigrants you're bringing into the country that drive down wages, that push up price? >> sir, we are a nation of immigrants. and we are a nation of laws. individuals who qualify for relief under our laws have a basis to remain in the united states. the contributions of immigrants to this country is quite clear. >> thank you. next to suzanne. >> good morning. do you guys anticipate requesting supplemental funding from the congress?

what type of criteria would trigger that type of request from you guys? >> in december, of this past year, we sought more than $4 billion in funding to address our resource needs because we are operating within an entirely broken immigration system. and that is something about which there is unanimity. we did not receive the funding that we requested. we received approximately half of what we requested and half of what we needed, which is why we are encountering some of the challenges. we have sought a reprogramming and we have communicated to congress that that reprogramming is a fraction of what we ultimately need. >> time for one more. rob? >> you mentioned some of the immigration proceedings. are you prepared to start releasing migrants into the u.s.

without court dates and without a way to track them to reduce overcrowding? >> so, when -- like other administrations, when we release individuals, we release them on conditions. and their compliance with those conditions is absolutely necessary and if they fail to comply, we will seek to apprehend them and remove them. they are ultimately in immigration enforcement proceedings. what we are speaking of, what you are inquiring of, is a minor -- a fraction of the people that we encounter. in fact, the vast majority will be addressed in our border patrol facilities and our i.c.e. detention facilities. >> the border is open? >> absolutely not. and i think you can ask the approximately 1.4 million people who were expelled, returned or removed from the united states

this past year. >> is this now a crisis? >> did you want to add anything else on regional processing? if not, we'll close remarks. >> let me just answer marcia's question, if i may, with respect to regional processing centers. they are a powerful example of what i expressed earlier, which is that our president has led the expansion of lawful pathways more than anyone preceding him. regional processing centers are an extraordinary example of that leadership. these are places where we feel a humanitarian and security imperative to meet people where they are, to cut the smugglers out, and to provide them with a safe and orderly way to arrive in the united states if they qualify for relief. we are surging our personnel in close partnership with the

department of state, in close partnership with countries in the region. we require a regional response to what is a regional challenge. we will -- in these regional processing centers screen individuals to determine whether they are eligible for refugee status in the united states. whether they qualify for what we are expanding in our family reunification programs, or whether on an individualized basis on a case by case basis, as the law requires, whether they are eligible for other humanitarian relief. that is what we are doing. the phenomenon of migration is different than it was 10, 12 years ago. we are seeing an unprecedented level of migration throughout the hemisphere. i believe there are approximately 20 million displaced people in our

hemisphere. in addition, the smugglers control the migratory paths. we will cut the smugglers out. we will reach qualifying individuals where they are and provide them with a safe and orderly pathway. if they arrive at our southern border, they will meet consequences. we urge migrants, once again, not to believe the smugglers who are lying to them, solely to make a profit. we are building lawful pathways for you to come to the united states. do not place your life and your life savings in the hands of ruthless organizations. thank you very much. >> okay. well, there we heard the news conference from secretary alejandro mayorkas, very tough talk on some measures that the government is implementing with less than 48 hours before title

42 is set to expire at 11:59 eastern time tomorrow. i want to bring back nbc's tom llamas, with us in tijuana and also julia ainsley in el paso, texas. julia, so much to talk about. sorry, you're in juarez, sorry. the -- julia, some of these announcements that the secretary made this morning are very tough, including what seems to be a travel ban for folks on the way to the united states if they don't request asylum in third countries. >> reporter: that's right, jose. we first knew that was coming, a proposal that was expected to be going into place about this time and it will to the minute. that is what a lot of immigration advocates call a transit ban. they point back to the trump administration saying this is a page from steven miller's book,

make migrants ineligible for asylum in the u.s. if they first crossed through a country where they didn't claim asylum. they're providing more legal pathways, but they want that criteria, the criteria for asylum basically to increase, to raise the bar on what it means to seek asylum in the u.s. but, jose, what that won't take care of is the sheer numbers and the processing time. as you said, they have a thousand new asylum officers trying to come in and do these screenings at the border. some of them reachable by phone. what that doesn't take care of is the sheer time it will take to process a migrant. with title 42, it is much faster process. they deny them and turn them back. that's why our reporting today gets at the crux of what they're doing to release the overcrowding, without court dates or a way to track them. he said there would be a small

number. as i understand it, it could be in the thousands and it could grow larger as they have to deal with that overcrowding and border patrol. that's the name of the game here. alleviating overcrowding. it could become a dire public health issue, jose. >> tom, you're on the other side of the border. are the folks, the men and women and children that made these unbelievably difficult and dangerous journeys to try and reach the united states and ask for asylum, are they looking at the clock, looking at title 42? what are they looking at? >> reporter: yeah, jose, well, listen, a lot of them have been walking for months, right? and they're incredibly desperate at this point. some of them are aware of the change in the policy. i spoke with a family from venezuela yesterday, and they were very aware. but at this point they had gotten to this point, just behind me here at juarez, where that border wall separating them from the united states, what is happening here, though, jose, i was hearing the secretary speak and julia's reporting as well,

it is strange, because what we're witnessing here on the border, you can see a green vine that is cascading over the barbed wire and people are just sort of coming and going, right here, a hole on the border and there are agents all over here. and these people are coming in, they're trickling in, there is a crew from telemundo, our colleagues that are documenting this and we have as well, but these numbers keep growing, so they trickle in and then they walk over here and they're in front of the border wall. they're on the u.s. side. nobody stopped them from crossing the barbed wire and this crowd here continues to grow. we're talking about hundreds to a thousand people. and we have seen them be allowed inside and we assume they're now being processed. when we were in el paso, just yesterday, we saw some of these folks going into get processed and spoke to them afterwards and they were processed and released. so, there is something happening here. what appears is that the biden administration is trying to sort of clear and disperse the crowds.

the crowds on the street in el paso and the crowds that have gathered here in juarez, but what it is creating is information trickles down. if people know they can come from here, they're going to keep coming. it is unclear when this is going to stop. if it stops thursday at midnight when title 42 ends. >> i was struck by the secretary, one of the things he did mention, i'll refer to it specifically, he said that the state department plans to eventually open about 100 regional processing centers at key locations in the western hemisphere so that folks can go there and not have to do that dangerous trek that tom llamas knows so well. as do you. you know what is ironic, i asked the secretary about regional processing centers that were going to be built in february of 2021. and i asked the vice president of the united states, harris, in june of 2021 about the regional processing centers they had announced were going to be

built. where are those, julia? >> reporter: that's a really good point, jose. you were on top of that from the beginning. it is not a new idea. the question is why now. if that's their answer to alleviating this journey we see these people taking, it is seems like it is late. none of these are going to be open by 11:59 on thursday. that could present a problem. we know the first two will be in colombia and guatemala. 100 is a larger number than i previously heard when they first floated this idea two weeks ago and told the press they didn't give us an overall number. what that could do, though, is allow for people to go in and qualify for refugee status, or some other kind of social service. but refugee status in the u.s. takes about two years to get from the time you apply to resettlement. they're also looking at being able to resettle the people in other countries, two countries that have agreed to sign on to this are canada and spain. so, it is definitely the spart of a process. but it is a long process, jose.

as you can see, the situation right here, where i'm standing, where tom is standing, is dire. >> it is indeed. and it is all about on the final analysis men, women and children who are making this journey, because they feel they have no other option in their life. tom llamas and julia ainsley, thank you so much for being with us this morning. ahead, we'll be back with what e. jean carroll is saying this morning after a jury found former president trump liable of sexually abusing and defaming her. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. her. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. s, you can make it even smarter. now ports can know where every piece of cargo is. and where it's going. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) robots can predict breakdowns and order their own replacement parts. (foreman) nice work. (vo) and retailers can get ahead of the fashion trend of the day with a new line tomorrow. with a verizon private 5g network, you can get more agility and security. giving you more control of your business. we call this enterprise intelligence. from the network america relies on.

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40 past the hour. after less than three hours of deliberating, a jury found former president donald trump liable for sexually abusing and defaming writer e. jean carroll after she accused him of raping her in a department store in the 1990s. he's been ordered to pay carroll $5 million in damages. trump denying the accusations. here is how he responded to the

verdict. >> we'll be appealing this decision. it is a disgrace. i don't even know who this woman is. >> carroll addressed the verdict this morning on msnbc. >> we did away with the perfect victim concept. the perfect victim always screams, she always going to the -- she always writes the date in her diary, she old folds up and is a sad person. we smashed that concept. and so for every woman in the country, this is for you, i think this will help you all be believed. >> joining us now is dasha burns and msnbc legal analyst catherine christian back with us this morning. does trump's team have grounds for an appeal? >> well, they have grounds, but i don't think it will be

successful. the reason why is because they did not find him liable of rape. so, they found him liable for sexually abusing her, meaning -- which in the criminal world that is still a felony, requires you to be registered as a sex offender. but the fact they did not find him liable for rape means the jury carefully list tonight the testimony and reviewed the evidence, they weren't prejudiced as his attorney said yesterday after the verdict, they were prejudiced by the "access hollywood" tape, i think the appellate court will look at that. they also did not award her outrageous or excessive damages. $2 million compensatory damages for the rape, but only $20,000 for punitive for the defamation they awarded basically $2.7 million. and only $280,000 for punitive. so, he wasn't found liable of rape. they weren't -- they didn't go crazy with the damages.

i think this is an appeal-proof verdict. >> and, catherine, does this in any way set a precedent or put the former president in any legal jeopardy in other cases? >> well, you mean, other women? i think what carroll said was right on target. it does away with the perfect victim who screams. it also, miss carroll is charmingly eccentric. not even perfect in that way. and, you know, of course, he has these other legal issues swirling around him that are criminal between the special counsel, between fulton county, georgia, the manhattan d.a. indictment and the new york attorney general case. he has a whole bunch of legal matters to deal with. but i think for other women and, you know, men too, obviously are victims of sexual assault, miss carroll is right. there is not that perfect victim. if the jury finds you credible,

and if the evidence is there, you can be successful against a very powerful man. who is more powerful than the former president of the united states? >> dasha, you sat down exclusively with former vice president pence. what did very to say about the verdict? >> reporter: well, jose, this is someone who could potentially be a political rival to former president donald trump very soon. he said he would be making that decision and that announcement by the end of the month of june. and this is someone who is also not new to sitting down with the reporter and answering questions about something that his former boss said, did or was accused of saying or doing. when this verdict came, just a couple of hours before we sat down with the former vice president, the question was is he going to denounce the former vice president, is he going to distance the former president, is he going to distance himself, is he going to now denounce sexual abuse or is he going to

punt, to dodge, and to once again stand by his former boss? well, here is just some of that conversation. does that result change your view about whether or not he is fit to serve as president? >> i think that's a question for the american people. but i -- i really can't comment on a judgment in a civil case. i have no knowledge of those matters. and i'm sure the president will defend himself in that matter. i would tell you in my 4 1/2 years serving alongside the president, i never heard or witnessed behavior of that nature. >> reporter: he also told us he doesn't believe that this is where the american people are focused right now. our conversation was also interrupted, jose, just as the former vice president was actually recounting the events

of january 6th and learning about the chanting from some of the rioters, talking about hanging mike pence, those chants that we all now know about. as he was talking about that, we were hearing chants outside of our interview space from lgbtq rights protesters, chanting some profanities against the former vice president as well. so he has seen some of those attacks coming from all sides. he was recently booed at an nra rally as well. so he is dealing with that as he is making his decision about whether or not to launch that white house bid. we also did ask him about the debt ceiling debate right now. he stands with kevin mccarthy on that. he did say when i pressed him about the amount of debt that the pence and trump white house racked up, he said they could have done better on controlling the debt under that administration, jose? >> dasha burns and catherine christian, thank you both so

very much. with the deadline to act on the nation's debt limit just over three weeks away, both sides are far apart after what has been described as a tense white house meeting between president biden and the top four congressional leaders. the group is set to meet again on friday with staff members holding talks in between. this comes as the president is set to visit new york today it talk about what happens if congress fails to lift the debt ceiling. it is also his first road trip since announcing last month he's running for re-election. with us now nbc news white house correspondent mike memoli and nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. anything positive coming out of yesterday's meeting? >> reporter: best i can give you that sound remotely positive is the fact they agreed to meet again. several sources described it as not especially productive, that it was tense and that everyone mostly focused on their own talking points. but i think the thing to watch here is the fact that even between yesterday's meeting ands that it is actually staffed that gets most of the major work done, not the lawmakers

themselves. that may end up being the case here too. if we can answer the one big question, which is what are they trying to even agree on? as they left that meeting yesterday, it wasn't clear if both sides were viewing the conversation they had just had as a negotiation about raising the debt ceiling. but after 97 days, by kevin mccarthy's count, with no conversations between the speaker and the president on this issue, at least everyone involved in ultimately making this decision is talking. >> and, mike, the president said he was leaving all options on the table, including invoking the 14th amendment. what exactly would that mean and do? what does it mean for this conversation? >> reporter: well, jose, there is a lot to unpack from the president's remarks after that meeting including that extended q&a with reporters. one is the distance he's traveled since friday when he told stephanie ruhle he wasn't there on invoking the 14th amendment to now saying he's convinced perhaps there is some

legal merit to pursuing that. it states the legal debts of the united states cannot be put -- cannot be questioned. and so that is -- there has been a lot of hope on the left that the president could invoke that and avoid congress' role here. but because of the nature of the 14th amendment, this was something that was adopted at the time just after the civil war, and there is a counterlegal argument to whatever the president was told that says this is unique situation involving the former confederacy. so, president acknowledged that if you were to invoke this now, to try to get out of this particular crisis, it would almost certainly be challenged in the courts and only compound surrounding this debt limit. he did indicate it's something he is willing to test for future debt fights down the road. >> mike and garrett, thank you very much. up next, the political implications of the lifting of title 42. you are watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. s.

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it's a humanitarian crisis that's not new but it's been growing. here in florida, there's a new immigration bill that the governor supported impacting directly undocumented migrants. these policies have real impacts on real people. wondering, do you think politically this is something that is going to carry weight through the 2024 season? >> jose, republicans think they can go on offense on immigration because they believe a majority of the u.s. public are against our current immigration policies. they believe a majority of the u.s. public reject a lot of the chaos that we see at the southwest border. however, the risk with republicans -- we have seen ron desantis maybe cross the line is if you come across as being cruel, as trying to punish people or use people who are victims, then that can backfire in a general election with centrist voters, suburban voters

who reject illegal immigration, they want to see people come into the u.s. legally, but they also don't like to punish or to be cruel with these people who are coming from all over the world, as you have said, because they are desperate. >> on another news of the day, what's your reaction to george santos being arrested on federal charges? >> this is not a surprise. you are starting to hear some house republicans speak up and say, this man has to be expelled from congress. tony gonzales from texas, one of the most outspoken republicans with an independent streak, has called on santos to resign. if he doesn't, on the house to expel him. this is going to put pressure on kevin mccarthy. it's a five seat majority. so every single vote matters, especially for difficult votes like lifting the debt ceiling. >> right now, if santos were to resign, there would be a special election. what happens if he is expelled, same? >> same thing.

it would take some time for that seat to be filled. anyway, a lot of people think santos has done such a terrible job and embarrassed himself and the district so much, people think a democrat could actually win that seat. >> turning to former president trump. he has to pay e. jean carroll $5 million after they found him liable on sexual abuse and defamation. is this something that's going to have any impact on him politically? he is teflon on so many things. >> in the republican primary electorate, he is teflon. where this could do damage, if donald trump does make it through the republican primary, which right now it seems like he has a really good chance, this is the type of issue that turns off a lot of swing voters. think of those suburban women that the two parties have been competing for in the last six to eight years. this is the type of issue that can once again convince a lot of suburban women to say, donald trump is just totally unacceptable. whoever the other option is,

even if it's joe biden who i may not like, i'm going to go with that option because trump is un unacceptable. >> that's women and men. >> suburban women are known to be up for grabs in recent years. both parties fight for them very, very aggressively. >> carlos, it's a pleasure to see you. thank you for being with us. i wanted to let you know tomorrow we will be broadcasting from el paso, tomorrow and friday, to cover the lifting of title 42 and its impact on not only border communities but throughout the country. join us tomorrow from el paso. history has been made at the westminster dog show. yes. >> best in show tonight. >> this is buddy holly who was

awarded the prestigious show's top prize. it's the first time his breed -- i can't even -- i screw it up when i read it. his breed has been found top dog. it's petit basset griffon vendeen. see? this is why i was concerned about reading it. this is what happens. anyway, beautiful dog. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. reach me on twitter and instagram @jdbalart. thanks for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," former president trump dealt an historic loss in a manhattan cour