continues to protect the right of public shootings. >> 15 seconds, is, and to your, second amendment, revisiting, and the chance of that happening? >> it should be, but the way to do it is to make law enforcement on the side of reform. that's where they are. it would be very wise for the democrats to make that union, to push these laws. >> all, right you guys, thank you for all the breaking news. we had other things planned, we'll get to next weekend. many thanks. that's the difference in this addition of alex witt reports. i'll see you again next saturday at noon eastern. my friend yasmin continues our coverage right now. >> good afternoon to, i am yasmin vossoughian, it's happened again, another mass shooting in this country, in north texas, the second shooting in the state just days. over the next two hours, we're gonna get the very latest on the ground, talk with activists demanding gun reform and hear

from the president. plus, i would ask politicians in texas and washington how we get past empty platitudes of thoughts and prayers to create real change. >> i'm a gunman, i have guns, i'm a former police officer, i'm a former army officer. these ar-15s, they have to get off the streets where this is gonna keep happening. >> or this is gonna keep happening. also, this hour, new legal questions surrounding former president trump. what did he really know about the classified documents in the basement of barr law go? we're gonna dive into what the special counsel was trying to learn. the surprising reason why it's great test scores and u.s. history are dropping around the country, a hint, the nation's covid lockdown three years ago is only partly to blame. and then, coming up in our next hour, one man is doing everything he can to help migrants left on el paso streets. my conversation with his concerns for so many people

right now and when title 42 ends in just four days time. we want to start that with this breaking news coming in now, word of yet another tragedy unfolding at this hour in the state of texas. these pictures coming in from brownsville texas, the associated press reporting seven people are dead. at least six are hurt after they were hit by a vehicle, you see it right there. we see it heavily damaged, range rover suv in these pictures, nbc's ken is reporting the senior law enforcement official says someone drove a vehicle into a group of immigrants at a catholic charity facility in brownsville. they believe this was, in fact, an intentional act. our affiliate reporting the driver was arrested for reckless driving. we're working to get more information this hour on this. again, we have seven people reported dead after a vehicle run into them, drove into, them it seems, intentionally, this

morning in the border city of brownsville, texas. we're gonna bring you more information as we get it. we're also continuing to talk about the mass shooting in the state of texas, at a mall, and allen, a suburb north of dallas. it happened yesterday afternoon, just before 4 pm local time, nine people, including the suspect are dead. officials confirming that children were among those who were killed, seven others are injured and three remain in critical condition. we want to bring in morgan, who is on the ground for us now in texas. morgan, if he will, at this hour, bring us up to date on the latest information that we're learning. >> yeah, yasmin, a lot of questions unanswered by authorities right now. we're hoping to find out more about the shooter who opened fire. those first reports coming in at 3:36 saturday afternoon here at the premium outlets of allen. this is a massive complex, yasmin, 120 stores on a busy saturday. you can imagine hundreds, if not thousands of people that were here when they heard that

sound that some of which, some of whom have told me they thought were fireworks before realizing that this was a nightmare, this was an active shooter. authorities were quick to share yesterday afternoon but there was a police officer responding to an unrelated call who run towards the gunfire, engage that gunman, shooting and killing him, they also say that this gunman acted alone. we're still waiting to hear what type of weapon he used from authorities, how he obtained it, any potential motive there. some of the best information we've gotten, yasmin, it has come from witnesses who were inside shopping, spoke to a mother who said that this man was described as having wearing all black, wearing body armor, looking very similar, eerily similar to that of a police officer, one of the most chilling stories i've heard, yasmin, was that of a father who got a call from his son who works at the h&m store here at the mall.

and his son said, dad, there's an active shooter here. essentially, what do i do? he said, remember what i told you, run or hide, if you can. so, his son went into the back of the story, gathering customers, bringing them with him as this gunman fired indiscriminately, here's more from what that father had to say about this horrific ordeal. he arrived on the scene, mind you, yasmin, just minutes before police. >> we've got a nationwide crisis, and i know people probably don't want to hear the politics, this is not a democrat, think it's more republican thing. it's an american problem. okay? and we have to figure it a way to fix that, you know, that's the reason i'm talking about this. no dad should have to see his son walk out of a store with his hands up, past three bodies. that's just not something we should have to face as parents. and if you think your community

is immune, allen is one of the safest cities in the united states, it happened and allen. >> eight people were killed, seven wounded, you mentioned three in critical conditions. yasmin, the age ranges for these victims, five years old to 61 years old. yasmin? >> yet again, it breaks my heart, over and over again. it is astounding to me, morgan, what you said about how the conversation that father had with his son, right at that mall. the father said, dude i told you, meaning they had had a conversation in preparation for a situation just like this. anticipating that the sun could find himself in a mass shooting. the reality of that, right, it's just mind-blowing. i'm wondering, morgan, why haven't we heard more from authorities there when it comes to the shooter? they don't seem to be as forthcoming as we would have expected. >> well, we do know that this

remains an active investigation and that this scene has yet to be officially cleared, yasmin. we also know the atf agents and fbi agents were present yesterday following the shooting, working with local authorities in gathering evidence, no questions were taken at the press conference that happened late last night, in which they shared some of the biggest details that we've heard so far. no press conference helps been scheduled as of right now, we do plan on following up. in the meantime, there's a vigil that will be held at a nearby church tonight, where those who lost their lives will be paid tribute to and the prayers, of course, we'll go to those in area hospitals. yasmin? >> morgan for us, thanks for staying on. that appreciate, it taps on the virtual shoulder, if you will, as you get more information on this. i want to continue this conversation. with me, texas state congressman, johnson, serves the -- district in houston. sir, thank you for joining us,

your state is in the state of tragedy right, now this country as well. we're not just following this shooting and allen, texas, there is now reports of what has taken place in this border community in brownsville where it seems, as we're being told from our own reporting, an individual intentionally drove into a crowd of migrants, killing seven individuals. what is happening? >> i think you have a governor, lieutenant governor and the republican party that has weaponized everything when it comes to immigration and guns. you have an individual that for whatever unknown reason has decided to drive their car into innocent people, simply because they have a label placed on their, name-calling themselves illegal immigrants. they've created a hatred towards these people. now, you have the same people

who are allowing guns, that we have allowed, you've done more to protect guns and we've done to protect children. we've seen machining after machining in the state, not one time have we've been able, as i just mentioned, to pass common sense gun reform, that simply takes the guns out of the hands of people that are having mental crises, people that we know are wanting to do harm, and yet, they continue to say, we're gonna make sure that guns are always available for law-abiding citizens. not one law-abiding citizen was able to run into this situation and control it. thank goodness there was a cop nearby. i'm glad that that happened. at the end of the day, ar-15s, ak-47s, and assault type weapons, they have no place in society. they have no place as

recreational weaponry, certainly not for home defense. this whole love of guns has gotten out of control. i think it has become, were complicit and allowing it to happen. it's time that we passed laws and we passed them now. happen>> what do you make of wht that one gentleman just said that our own morgan chesky had spoken to, in which he, said this is not a republican and democratic problem, right? this is not political at this point. this is inherently an american problem, right? this is a texan, this individual, the man that was just speaking there. this is the very person that governor abbott governs, represents. >> you know -- >> go ahead. >> at the end of the day, everything we do is political, we politicized it so much to wear on friday, i spoke about the ability for cities to make a decision on their own on how

they want to govern guns in their cities, there's a bill that simply said that cities have no longer have the authority to govern themselves, and they won't be able to regulate guns. i'm sick and tired of people saying over and over again, talking about the love of guns, i love my gun, i love my gun. well, i have a gun, but i don't love it, i love my children, i love my dog, of course i love my family, but i don't love my gun. what is it about a country, what is it about a state that puts so much affection towards the killing machine that you have the audacity to say that you love weaponry. i'm not talking with the gentleman who just said what he said. i've heard it far too often, we care more about the ability to own guns than we do about protecting families. i've watched, i'm the vice chair of homeland security. i've watched and heard those

families come in, crying their eyes, that having to re-live the story of how they had to identify their children by the close they were wearing because they were blown to pieces. and yet, we have not had one sensible piece of legislation, and yet, we continue to make guns more and more available. this is what we're constantly getting, we've become complicit in how we're governing. you have these people who want to cause harm and kill people. they are seemingly taking it as it's okay, i get to do what i want to do, because every time this happens, the first thing that he, here she, here's whoever, we're gonna have thoughts and prayers, but never will be a time for action. now is the time for action, this hits home for a lot of those colleagues of mine that won't pass legislation. >> why? why does it hit home for them?

because it's a place that they would go? why does this hit home versus and nashville shooting, versus the top supermarket in buffalo, new york, versus an el paso shooting, versus uvalde when students are slaughtered, children, babies are slaughtered, why would this hit home more than anything else? >> empathy. i've always said, empathy is the most important way in which you must legislate. if you don't, if the people don't look like you, you don't understand where they come from, you don't understand their thoughts and their feelings, oftentimes, we disassociate ourselves from certain societal roles. so, when you look at buffalo, that didn't look like them. when you look at south carolina, that doesn't look like those, that doesn't look like the people that they're trying to legislate. this looks like that, when i look at my colleague, colleague, representative leach, this is in his district. the fact that he's a coauthor of constitutional carry, this

hits home for him. he now understands that these types of things happen not just in certain communities, that can happen everywhere. and now, it is starting to happen. and i hope because of this that finally actions can be taken, that you understand that it's not just for people, it's not just people of color, it's not people of this particular side of town, it happens everywhere, well it's don't have names, faces, or identity attached to, it is simply going after whatever is around. that's what's happening, it's unfortunate. >> i hope you, right sir. i hope you're, i am sick and tired of covering stories like this. i have to say, i have covered way too many in my lifetime. >> we're all sick and tired of it. >> i think america's watching this and just wondering, what is it gonna stop? wondering if it ever well, considering where we are. politically, in this country, and seeing how lawmakers are

reacting to it. representative jarvis johnson, as always, sir, we appreciate your voice on this. thank you for that. we are back, everybody, in just 60 seconds with more on what police are calling an intentional crash that has killed seven people in brownsville, texas. stay with us. stay with us after advil. back to work. what about your neck? it's good to go. before advil. advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. (vo) with their verizon private 5g network, associated british ports can now acetaminophen blocks pain signals. precisely orchestrate nearly 600,000 vehicles passing through their uk port every year. don't just connect your business. (dock worker) right on time. (vo) make it even smarter. we call this enterprise intelligence. this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's gone.

on the subway app. asking the right question get it before it's gone. can greatly impact your future. - are, are you qualified to do this? - what? - especially when it comes to your finances. - are you a certified financial planner™? - i'm a cfp® professional. - cfp® professionals are committed to acting in your best interest. that's why it's gotta be a cfp®. >> breaking, is everybody, out of brownsville texas. seven migrants have been killed and six others injured. we want to get an update on this from nbc -- 's has been following the developments there. what are you learning? >> yasmin, we're getting the updates by the minute. we know that a senior law enforcement official has confirmed to nbc news that an individual drove a vehicle into a group of immigrants outside of a catholic charities center in brownsville, texas, also adding that they believe this was intentional. we know through local fire

department, as you mentioned, seven individuals died, 11 were transported to local hospitals. this area in brownsville is one of the cities that has seen a surge of migrants arriving to the u.s. mexico border. in fact, days ago, dhs secretary mayorkas arrived in brownsville where they opened a new processing facility to help with that surge of migrants. we know the processing centers there were overwhelmed. they had been seen in that entire valley. they'd been seeing an average of more than 2000 migrants arriving daily. we know that both on the mexican side and the american side of the cities, they were overwhelmed by the large numbers of migrants. now, what we've seen there and in other cities in texas, like el paso, is that a lot of these shelters are places where the migrants that are in the u.s. arrived for help. they're also at capacity, so, large groups of migrants will often be on the outside of it, the sidewalk, and then some

places the migrants have to sleep there just because the shelters are at capacity. we don't have the details of what was happening in brownsville when this incident took place, but in other shelters, we've always seen crowds of migrants. these are areas where in the past we've seen humanitarian groups arrive to also bring food and water. so, in these border cities, the areas that have migrants are easily identified four individuals who are driving by. so, this is the information we have right now, as we wait for more details of this incident where seven people were killed and 11 have been taking to hospitals in brownsville, as men. >> unbelievable. thank you for staying on this for us. in washington, everybody, we also have this reaction that is pouring in after the shooting in allen, texas, as democrats are continuing to push for stronger gun reform in the wake of the most recent massacre. i want to bring in nbc congressional correspondent, julie tsirkin, joining me now from the capitol. let me have you tackle two

things, it may be too quick to throw you on this, so, just avoid, if you have to. are we hearing any reaction to what's happening in brownsville, right, this revelation that this individual intentionally drove into a crowd of migrants killing seven individuals? of course, we know there have been reactions pouring into the latest mass shooting out of allen, texas. talk us through that. >> yasmin, we're not yet hearing much of anything from lawmakers, in large part because they're not in this building, they're all at home in their districts. to that intentional crash that awful crash you just heard what even egg is talking about, it struck immigrants, i think he is the point there about the rhetoric that we've heard from republicans, primarily, when it comes to the issue of migrants, but taking back to the shooting, what reaction i'm hearing is what we keep hearing every single week, that you and i talk about shooting after shooting, that is a largely thoughts and prayers. that's what we're hearing from not only republicans, but also

democrats, their tweets, their statements, you know, majority leader, chuck schumer, spoke today in new york about the debt limit. he did not bring the shooting up. you know that democrats control the senate, obviously they were short of efforts for an assault weapons ban, the first two years under president biden, when democrats control the house in the senate. but schumer has not committed to putting that piece of gettine record. so, i want you to pull up two tweets from texas senators, john cornyn and ted cruz, they tweeted thoughts and prayers, they're grieving with their community, this is not the first, second, or third shooting we've seen in texas affecting their constituents over the last several weeks. but from democrats, it seems like they've largely given up on trying to convince their republican counterparts on doing anything more at the federal level. you'll have to take my word for it, here is senate majority dick durbin. >> there's something more than

america can do, it's called an election. if people across america are fed up with these mass shootings and killings, the terrible things that are happening, even to our children, as a result of it, they're gonna vote accordingly. we need to have that kind of a revolution and thinking across america, this is unacceptable, this was not dictated by the constitution, it is a point of view on that position, a political position, it makes no sense when it comes to the safety of america. >> about a month ago, after the nashville school shooting, durbin told me he doesn't think there's anything more they can do. senator john cornyn, helped author that bipartisan bill passed senator chris murphy in the wake of uvalde, we're coming up on the year anniversary of that. he says he doesn't play there's anything where they can do. and facts, they think states have been properly implemented that legislation yet, and they think that is one of the issues here. again, most of the things in that bill our state based, there is no federal red flag, lather is no federal ban on

anything. it's up to the states to implement these policies. these are certainly the questions i'm going to be asking lawmakers are back in the building on tuesday. it's one that i am assuming i will get the same answers to that i have been in the last few weeks and all of the shootings we've seen this year. >> julie tsirkin for, us we thank you. i want to get some clarity for folks, we're getting some new reporting in here, when we're talking about the latest tragedy out of brownsville, texas, in which a car drove into a group of migrants, killing seven individuals. there's been back and forth. i want to be clear with all of the folks that are watching that this is a very fluid situation, but i want to be transparent about what we're getting in here. so, hearing from her own candle lanny, and a senior law enforcement official is now saying it's not clear that this is actually an intentional act, but the investigation into the motive is ongoing. i want you to understand though that the reporting is based initially on something that was told to kveo tv. lieutenant martin sandoval, so, the driver, he was --

sandoval said more charges will likely be filed. he said it's looking more and more like an intentional act. we want to get to the bottom of that. we hope to in the two hours ahead as we begin, as we continue to follow the story there on the ground in brownsville, texas, along with the ongoing situation at a, valentines this, and the latest much today in this country. we're gonna continue to stay on the, folks. also, to chico, california, manhunt is underway for a shooter who killed a teenage girl and injured five others. it happened at a house party, early saturday morning. get, this police say they were called to the same house, about 30 minutes before the shooting, and they arrested a man on suspicion of brandishing a firearm. however, they go on to say the shooting appears to be an isolated incident. all of that and much more is coming. up we will be right back. will be right back se me! roll it back, everybody!! charmin ultra soft is so cushiony soft, you'll want more! but it's so absorbent, you can use less.

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want to turn now to the white house with reaction today to the devastation at a, valentines this. the president, of course, honoring the victims, also calling on congress to send in legislation. it's not the first time he's made this call. here's some of what he had to say back in april, following a shooting in louisville, kentucky. he said this, it is long past time that we require safe storage of firearms, require background checks for all gun sales. eliminate gun manufacturers immunity from liability. we, can and must do these things, now. and then, fast ford to february, after shooting and tate county,

mississippi, quote, we need, need common sense gun law reform. once again, that's a, month after the shooting at michigan state university,. quote, this, action is what we owe to those grieving today in michigan and across america. want to get right to nbc's mike -- following all this from the white house. it's as if the white house at this point can cut and paste every through so it is a statement they need to release on the most recent mass shooting in this country. every single time this president is imploring lawmakers to act, right? to ban assault rifles, talk to us more about what we're hearing from the white house and what they can actually do. >> yeah, yasmin, it's interesting the way laid that out, it feels like i've had the same conversation with you, another anchor, or you and another reporter, every time there's a mass, shooting what more can be done in washington? well, as the president is putting in this new statement, the tweeted thoughts and prayers from republicans are

not enough, there's too many families that have this empty seat at the table, and that republicans need to do more, what that speaks to, i think, it's interesting here, at every turn this year, we've heard president biden in public really lean into this idea of an assault weapons ban. that's really departure, some, what you are seeing that certainly 20 years ago when the assault weapons ban expired, ten years ago in the wake of newtown, even five years ago. it is something the president talks about often because there is this sense of a movement now behind gun reforms, gun safety measures, it's turned into a real political force that rivals the national rifle association, has, as the democrats, get a hold on the republican party. one reason the president is leaning in so hard is because he thinks this needs to be a voting issue, it could be a powerful issue. he's seen that play a significant role in these battleground suburban districts, that might mean the difference in swinging control back to

democrats potentially in the next election, maybe even helping with this senate, although, the math is much tougher. there was also worth noting, yasmin, the white house often point, that the president did sign the most significant gun safety measure in sometime last year, doing things like promoting the use of red flag laws, the president also went to los angeles earlier this year, i was covering this trip, he signed an executive order, and gun safety advocates were telling me there is real potential that because what he's asked his justice department to do, to review some of the language and that new legislation, to potentially all but close the gun show loophole, that be a significant step in the right direction, to at least expend background checks. we're still waiting for that review to come from the justice department, they have a few months to do it, but if and when that is followed through, that would be a significant thing the president would tout as doing more here, even if congress is not acting. >> let me ask you this really quick, you brought up a really good point, something i'm thinking about. we've never been at this point, right, in our nation's history,

with so many mass casualty are attacks, right? with these mass shootings happening, with more and more people dying, children, right, especially. i'm wondering if now, more than ever, the biden ministration, as you're looking ahead to 2024 in his reelection campaign, they're talking about campaigning on abortion, talking about campaigning, obviously, when it comes to the economy and how they talk about that. but our guns can become a top issue on the trail? heading into 2024, considering where we are, and how people feel it. >> certainly, we're in the early days of the biden reelection campaign, we've seen some of the messaging coming so far, talking about january 6th, the fact that as the president put, the freedom itself is gonna be on the ballot. of course, hailstones to talk about his economic accomplishments. i think, back yasmin, to when i was covering the 2020 campaign, and just before covid really did shut down the campaign, the last event that then candidate joe biden did was with a coalition of gun safety groups,

in a suburban part of ohio, this was ahead of the ohio primary, but it is at a point when then candidate biden was beginning his pivot to the general election. certainly signaling then what white house officials have told me, that they believe that this is a powerful issue with an important voting coalition, those suburban mothers who have historically trended a bit republican, but more recently been swinging very clearly towards democrats. i think you'll see the white house, the biden campaign ultimately leaning into that issue. >> mike, as always, my friend, thank you. coming up, everybody, new details into the investigation of classified documents uncovered at mar-a-lago. plus this. >> we need to keep the families impacted by this tragedy in our prayers. >> praying and believing for the victims and the families. >> please keep the victims and the families of the victims of your prayers. >> lots of thoughts and prayers, right, following the deadly texas mall shooting. but where are the solutions?

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continuing to follow that breaking news about deadly crash today in the texas border city of brownsville, texas. today seven people are dead, at least six others are hurt after they were hit by a vehicle nearing migrant shelters run by catholic charities. is senior law enforcement official now saying it is not

clear that this was an intentional. action official earlier had said that in fact it was. the investigation into the motive continuous. brownsville police telling our affiliate kveo that the driver was arrested and charged with reckless driving. police saying more charges are likely in the crash that happened this morning. also now, the developments out of allen texas, according to law enforcement, their shooter opened fire at a mall in allen, killing eight people, including children. seven others are injured and three remain in critical condition. police have not released the name of the shooter or any of the victims. while they do believe the suspect acted alone, we still have many unanswered questions from law enforcement. this community, it is devastated and traumatized, some are already planning to grieve together at a local church, that is said to hold a community per service later on this evening. are hearing from victims and witnesses as well, one of whom spoke earlier today on msnbc.

>> we often wonder, what does it feel like if your parent and your son is calling for help? i felt that yesterday, i hope no one ever has to feel that. i have guns, i'm a former police officer, i'm a former army officer, but these ar-15s, they have got to get off the streets, this is gonna keep happening. we have got to stop it at some point. it could be, oh it could be your family member, i never imagined that it would be me, i never imagined it happen in my community, but it did. >> so, the initial briefing from local texas officials after that shootings a similar themes repeated, thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers. mentions of a tragedy. also, almost, i should say, no mention of guns. >> we need to keep the families impacted by this tragedy in our prayers. >> we remain committed to praying for victims and their families and our community, i have no doubt, will come together and respond in the

right way to this horrific tragedy. >> we're a strong and carrying community, we all want the victims and their families impacted by this tragedy to know that we will wrap our arms around you, we are here for you. >> all right, shannon watts is the founder of moms demand action. shannon is joining us now. before we get started, we're now getting the identity in of the shooter in allen texas. i'm not gonna read the shooter's name. >> thank you. >> that is definitely not part of our policy here in making clear the shooter's name. important not put that out there. we know is a 33-year-old male, as we're learning now from senior law enforcement officials. the motive is still unclear, of course, as that develops, we're gonna bring it to folks. you tweeted a phrase after the shooting and you've repeated it before, we are not numb, we are

traumatized. you said it, again we are not numb, we are traumatized, we are not numb, we are traumatized. sometimes it seems as if the folks that are creating the laws to protect our children in this country are numb. but in a different way. talk to me about your reaction to what we've seen in texas and really everything in the last week or so with these repeated mass shootings in this country. >> three alone in the last two weeks in texas, in this country, there have been more mass shootings than days of the year. let that sink in for a second. no nation is experiencing this rate of gun violence that we are. it is not evil, it is not mental illness, we know that it is easy access to guns, if you look at the state of texas, let's talk logically here, last year, 1 million guns were sold in texas, this year 400, 000, weakened their gun laws over the last decade to the point

where you no longer need a background check or safety training to carry a loaded gun in public. india, gun homicides are up 91%. the rate of gun homicide, up 91% in the last decade. when will the guns make us safer? how many guns will it take until we see those numbers decrease? the answer is never. we know we need stronger gun laws in this country, i would ask anyone who's watching this to put yourself in the position of those people yesterday in allen, texas. imagine that you are at that mall with your kids. >> yeah. >> if gun violence has impacted you yet, it is coming. i would ask everyone to use their voice and their vote on this issue. we're having events all over the country this week and the saturday before mother's day. i beg you to please text the word, raleigh, to 64 -- and get off the sideline. >> it's scary to think of how

personal gun violence, machines can, be right? even when you say that, right? and i've covered so many of these, it just gives me chills thinking about how that could affect each one of us. so personally. i was watching a witness to the shooting yesterday on our air. and i couldn't help but think just how traumatized will be for the rest of her life, what she experienced on the saturday afternoon, when she was shopping, what does this do to communities, to people? >> you know, you see reports where there is a shooting somewhere and inevitably it does, you know, someone was hurt but others were unharmed. five dead and others wounded. and yet, as if that hasn't traumatized an entire community, and entire state, an entire nation. if you haven't been impacted by gun violence, you are

constantly seeing it. the images that came across yesterday on twitter were so horrific that i feel traumatized, right? that is why i keep saying, we are not in a, we are traumatized. the vast majority of people in this country support stronger gun laws. there is a vocal minority of gun extremists that have been allowed to write policies that protect gunmaker profits instead of public safety. we have the power to change that. i know we wish would happen overnight, the change happens in this country every single electoral cycle, we have to show every single elected official, regardless of the level of government, that there are consequences for inaction. >> interesting, i think back to senator chris murphy in his trial get the legislation passed after you've all day, right? and he said, and i'm paraphrasing here, essentially, we have to take it one small step at a time, right? we know we can't go to some of

these more conservative lawmakers and, say that, that ban is all rifles, they won't do it, right? but if we get a little bit closer, take a bite out of the apple every single time, they feel as they did with the latest gun reform legislation the got passed after you've all day, on a federal level, maybe we can get one step closer to banning assault rifles, for instance, or increasing the age on a federal level to purchasing assault rifles. what do you make of what he said? >> that's exactly right. there is not one post, one policy, one protest that is going to fix this. we have today again and do the unglamorous heavy lifting of grassroots activism. it's working, i mean, i know that we're told to be hopeless and helpless, i think cynicism is an excuse for inaction. in just the last couple of weeks, we have passed sweeping gun reform legislation in places that are considered purple. washington, when a soda, michigan, colorado, assault

weapons ban, not just, you know, background checks and red flag laws, on the non, laws that are making a difference and saving lives. but it does take everyone getting involved. again, i ask you to please text the word rally to 64433. >> you are an inspiration, shannon watts, as always, we are thankful for you. >> thank you. >> major new developments, everybody, in the doj's mar-a-lago documents investigation, the new york times now reporting that federal prosecutors investigating former president trump's handling of classified documents, quote, have obtained the confidential cooperation of a person who has worked for him at mar-a-lago. the name of the witness is currently unknown, but the new york times says he's, quote, said to have provided investigators with a picture of the storage room where the material had been held. we should mention that this has not been independently verified by msnbc or nbc news, for that matter, joining me now, let's talk more about, this former federal prosecutor msnbc legal

analyst, cynthia. so, it's great to talk about the stuff. if prosecutors are working with this confidential witness pro the near times reporting, how important, how crucial of a development do you think this is? >> well, i think it's really important. and mostly because the investigation has moved from the retention of the documents to obstruction of justice, right? that's where we are now. and that's a very serious investigation. they had some conversations with trump's body guide, now to, apparently that broke off. they did learn in that process that he had moved documents after the subpoena. now, what they need to do is they need to find out, when did trump learn know about the subpoena? did he ask him to move the documents? did he look through the boxes of documents? did they try to return them? did he lie to his lawyer, which we think he did, which is why the attorney client privilege

was pierced. and what did he do right before they actually ended up turning over the documents? they're at a critical time period for that, they have not successfully flipped now to, they need somebody else inside to get that information. i will say that the other nugget in that story, which is fascinating, is that they subpoenaed security footage from mar-a-lago and there are gaps in the security footage. that's a whole new line of investigation. is that because there's a technical problem? has rosemary woods gone to work there and suddenly footage has disappeared and been a raised? they have to figure that out. that process, they have been interviewing the calamari's, loyal msnbc viewers no were involved in the bragg case as well. so, it's very incestuous and they continue to search and try to find out exactly what happened. >> i'm happy you brought up now to. because it's interesting, right?

i think there's this question, this is the former presidents valet. it seems as if, as you mentioned, prosecutors were not necessarily able to win the information that they wanted from him and or, as you put, it flip him. let me read from the reporting of the new york times. prosecutors appear to be filling in gaps and knowledge but the movement of the boxes created part by their handling of another potentially key witness, mr. trump's rally, walt now into. prosecutors believe mr. not as failed to provide them with a full and accurate -- boxes containing the classified documents. wondered if you feel as if something, cynthia, if there's any other avenue they can take to force nauta's hand, to provide the information they need? >> sure, i mean, it's not a static thing. it's not, like oh, if we didn't do it on tuesday, we're never gonna get it. >> yeah, yeah. >> it very well me -- they get this other witness that provides information for them to call his lawyer and, say we've learned that, like,

you know, for example nauta called the security people and he was, as you know, whatever he was doing, we've learned more information. let's come in and talk about it some more, that may give them the leverage they need to fully flip now to. you don't just give up because you don't get it on day one. i, mean it's a continual process. he's obviously somebody with some exposure. remember, the refusal to retain the document is one crime, but the conspiracy to not return them, the obstruction, that is another crime. that may include, that may include seven, eight, nine people. who knows how many people that includes. and if now to has some exposure, he has every reason to come in and actually tell the department of justice what he knows. >> cynthia, as always, we appreciate you, thank you. we're getting more information and hear about the shooter out of al, untouched, folks, that i want to bring it to date on. i can read this in my phone quickly here. the gunman who killed at least eight people and wounded half a

dozen more at the dallas area outlet mall was identified as the 33-year-old male. again, i'm not gonna use his name here. he had a tactical vest and was armed with a rifle of some kind, as well as a handgun. that's according to a senior law enforcement official. more weapons and ammunition as well were found in his vehicle. we're gonna keep following the developments out of al, into, as marketing their. along with the deadly crash in brownsville texas that killed seven people and left six others injured. the driver there is under arrest as well. we'll be right back with much much more. much more.

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it is no secret the last three years have been extra difficult for students throughout this country. they have been expected to keep up with their school work admits to global pandemic, that took a major toll on the education system. new data reveals some troubling signs of where things stand for

american students. test scores from eighth graders showing record low performances on history courses, as well as the first ever decline in civics classes. reading and math scores also falling by the largest amount ever recorded. joining us now is carrie, works as a chief learning officer at the national constitution center in philadelphia. carrie, thank you for joining us on this. looking at the numbers here, right? and it's not just what you logically think being the effects of the pandemic because of these scores and how these students are performing. you look at, since 2014, right, this percentage has been dropping pretty steadily, where students are performing below, quote unquote, basic on history exams. what do you make of some of the reasons why this is happening? >> i'm really glad to be here, i'm glad you pointed that out to. so often we think, oh, it's

because of the last three years. that has a significant impact on it. when we look at the four years before, that we see that steady decline in history. when we talk about our nation and all the news you're sharing today, we need to prepare students to be well-rounded students to be able to know their history, their civics, and be able to read interpret sources. so unbelievably powerful. so, what is happening in these areas and where are we not moving the needle forward? so many factors that fall into this. you know, if it is one, we could solve, it that would be fantastic, that's not how education works. one of the key things though, we know we need is a solution, it is to give more time to history and classrooms across this country, more high quality curriculum, and more teacher support. we need to really embed that into every single grade, and not just one great in high school, and maybe if you're lucky, one great in middle

school. >> if we also look at the politicization of education in this country as well, you're looking at book bans, you're looking at entire parts of our history not being, not wanting to be taught in certain schools in this country. politicize a shun, as i mentioned, of public school curriculum in general. how is that really contributing to what we're seeing? >> massively. so, when we think about, our kids are not in the bubble, they're not unaware of what's happening in our country. they're not unaware of how family members or community members are talking about history and civics. they're watching the news, they're involved in all of this. our republic, our constitutional republic is based off of coming together with different viewpoints and listening to each other. it's unbelievably important for this to work. compromise, unbelievably important for this to work. our students are seeing it across the country. we just slipped a new data

coming out this year that was so powerful, but it also looked at classrooms that aren't working. our kids are not listening to each other, they're having more heated debates, and that's not healthy. when you want to talk to each other and look at different sources, you want to share different viewpoints, a big part of that is hearing and asking questions, understanding different perspectives. that is not what they're doing, it is getting heated and it shutting down. >> yeah, active listening, that is certainly something that we talk about a lot in our own profession as journalists. interviewing people like you, also something we want our children to do as well in their education. we thank you for this. we have got a lot more coming up, folks. you are watching msnbc. our second hour starts right now.