i did not have those types of thoughts. they are living in a very scary world for a very good reason, and honestly, it is time that we start to listen to them. it is not just a matter -- for talking about an outlet mall. when you look at these people on the screen, you can't tell what age they are. young people are on the right side of history as relates to this fight, just like they were historically on the right side of history when i came to the civil rights movement, when it came to vietnam and so many other things. young people are trying to lead us down a better path, if we will only go. >> congresswoman jasmine crockett, i'm glad to ask you to continue to stay with me as we watch what is unfolding out of texas. and as we start the new hour here on a american voices, we continue to follow the breaking news out of texas. police are on the scene of an active shooter in an outlet mall in allen.

that's about 25 miles north of dallas. the -- began coming around in 5:30 pm eastern time. there are reports of multiple casualties but nbc news has not confirmed a number. the city of allen issued a public safety alert warning residents to stay away from the allen premium outlets. we've seen what appears to be hundreds of people walking out with their hands up, presumably to indicate to authorities outside they are not a threat. frank figliuzzi, i want to bring you in here and ask, as you watch this unfold, which questions remain for you? >> the question is, obviously, is this contained? it's the shooter identified? and either apprehended or deceased? there are signs that that could be the case here in -- in terms of the tone and pace we are seeing now. that has changed drastically over the co what is the toll? for the casualties?

how many? who are they? and then everybody has the same question. why? why did this happen? and then, of course, alicia menendez, there is the larger question -- why does this keep happening? does it have to? and what can we do with it? >> frank figliuzzi, i'm going to ask you to stay with me. i'm going to bring in nbc news's george salius. george -- the story? >> -- monitoring the situation right now, clearly unfolding right now. we just received word from governor abbott, who has been briefed on the shooting, the governor saying our hearts are with the people of allen, texas, during this unspeakable tragedy. i've been in contact with mayor folk fulk -- to ensure all resources are swiftly deployed and -- the p.s. -- and investigator of resources and the atf, of course, a major part of any investigation that

it was a active shooter. it says the atf personnel are responding to -- at the allen premium outlets in allen, texas. our police department is the point of contact him over lease more information as it becomes available. we are working to confirm the number of casualties in this incident. nbc news is reaching out to multiple points of contact, including the allen police department to see if we can get a better idea. but we know this is an active, fluid situation, as we have seen multiple times or incidents like this. but we are monitoring multiple feeds right now to see what we can learn about this shooting, whether or not it is contained at this point. but during the situation we are going to keep monitoring and bringing more updates as they become available. >> george, we will continue to come back to for those updates. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh, he is retired atf special agent in charge of and a former hostage negotiator. heat is also an nbc terrorism analyst. jim cavanaugh, what do you say, that this is an active situation? a fluid situation? what does that indicate to you?

>> it indicates that the police are still dealing with the initial chaos of the report of an active shooter. but, like frank figliuzzi discussed, it's -- a quite a bit there. you don't see any of the initial -- activity, patrol does when they respond to an active shooter or the deployment of s.w.a.t. officers, promptly, to go in, do the search and clearing operations. it's all slowed down. i think it's become static. you kind of have the public statements a little bit out of whack. here we have a statement from the governor here talking about an unspeakable tragedy, if we don't even have a report of -- deaths from the police department. so they are losing a bit of the coordination there. that's not a good timing, when we have the governor saying unspeakable tragedy, it makes you sound like it's a homicide in here. but we don't really know that. >> yeah, and jim cavanaugh, let me read you that statement from the governor's office. our hearts are with the people of allen, texas tonight during this unspeakable tragedy. as you referenced, i have been in contact with mayor ken fulk and dps director mccraw, as

well as other state and local leaders and offer the full support of the state of texas to local officials to ensure all needed assistance and resources are swiftly deployed, including dps officers, texas rangers, and investigative resources. i want to bring into our conversation texas state senator roland gutierrez. senator, i am struck by the fact that you and i stood together outside of rob elementary law less than a year ago and had a very similar conversation to the one that we are going to have right now, which is, how did we end up here? >> you know, alicia menendez, this is just the same thing that we have been seeing for months on and in this nation, for years on end. it just too many guns in the hands of people that should not have them. and we have to do something. this is insanity. this is not normal. we are broken as a country, and we need to do something now, i absolutely. >> tell me about texas, and about this moment you find yourself in, and having a

governor who calls this unspeakable tragedy, having an a.g. who senses prayers. >> this is the chaos that these republicans have started. this is the chaos that happens when you allow everybody to walk around with an ar-15. i spoken to director mccraw already. he has information that there is at least five dead, that there are ten wounded, and as many as 30 wounded are being taken into peoples cars before taking them in their cars to the hospital themselves. this is not normal. how in the world can we go to the mall with -- an activity that we do every day, and yet the chaos that is ensuing here tonight in texas, that ensued in uvalde, that has ensued in different parts of this country, is because republicans have allowed unfettered access to weapons.

and people are dying. and children are dying every night in our streets because one group of politicians refused to do anything about the leading cause of death of children. and very soon probably not only the leading cause of death of most of us. >> i just need to tell our audience the numbers that you just read off. that nbc news has not yet independently confirmed those numbers. we are working to bring them to you. congressman jasmine crockett, as you listen to what state senator roland gutierrez has to say, the way he is looking at this, less than a year out from uvalde, what does this tell you about the trajectory of this issue? >> you know, as we have been talking about elections going forward, because we are about to enter, it seems like we are never out of election cycle, especially when you are in the u.s. house, but as we are talking about it i keep saying the number one issue is guns. and to be perfectly honest there is only one team that is

team people, team america, team texas. there is only one team that is fighting to actually save lives. and that's the democratic team. this is not conjecture and this is not a debate. these are just the facts. when we look at who pushes for the legislation, the legislation that will absolutely save lives, we know that it is the democrats. and so i don't see how the republicans can beat us if, this is a number one issue that is on the minds of people. and i don't see how it is not. anybody that has a child, loves a child, as roland has already indicated -- we have talked about this over and over and over -- is that this is the leading cause of death for children, is gun violence. what type of country are we living in when our children are being gunned down? and that is the number one cause. not a cause, right? because we can't make anything perfect. but our number one cause is something that we could do

something about? and instead you care more about making sure that gun manufacturers are setting record profits? that's what matters more? let's just make sure we sell more guns, instead of getting more and more guns off the streets. it's not a matter of, you know, we don't what know what type of firearm was used. we see historically, right? we know that the pattern was a little different in georgia just the other day. but when we go back to the other texas shooting we just had, when we finally just captured that assailant, he had an ar. i don't know how many of these shootings involved a ours, but we know that consistently its assault rifle, assault rifle, assault rifle. that is what we are constantly hearing. and we have got to do our jobs. law enforcement is out here doing their job, you read the statement from the governor about the fact that he will send all the resources. let's just get smart about this. because, to be perfectly honest,

i can tell you that the family members of those law enforcement officers would probably prefer that lawmakers just to do their jobs and keep some of these guns off the street and listen to law enforcement when they make these recommendations, instead of saying, oh, great job. will we go ahead and send you into this war zone, that maybe you didn't have to be sent into. >> i want to read you, jim cavanaugh, a tweet that's come in from representative keith self, who represents this area. he says, we are devastated by the use of these deadly shootings -- a law enforcement on the scene. this is an ongoing situation, but allen has -- a shooter is down. and there are multiple casualties. talk me through what we are hearing from congressman self, jim kavanaugh? >> i will. it is horrible and the state senator told us, alicia, maybe five dead and 30 wounded i --

>> and nbc, as i know noted, is still working to confirm those numbers. >> right, right. exactly. and the senator said he got it from the head of the texas state troopers. so, we don't know how accurate is, the reporters will have to confirm it on the scene. the police have not made a public statement about it. so -- statements out of link here. but the shooter down -- that means wounded or dead. i think we might have a suicide. i think we might have a -- shot a large number of people and committed suicide, or responding officers shot him, or citizen may have shot him. but he's down. that means he's wounded. that doesn't mean he is in custody. i would -- more than likely he's dead because -- >> jim cavanaugh, i'm sorry to interrupt you, i have some sound coming in from kxas, a reporter interviewing a woman who is looking for her daughter. >> -- >> that is one witness's description of what she saw. she was trying to get to her

daughter as all of this was happening. and she said she saw three victims involved with this. so, that is her description coming from a witness who -- giving us details of what she saw happening out there. so, again, this has been a shooting situation at the allan allen premium outlets. it happened just about 4:00 there in -- county at -- and still on the scene investigating what has taken place there and we are still waiting to hear from police and investigators about what has happened there, and injuries, and we were -- hoping to get an update from -- >> -- more condolences shared on social media, as earlier, we shared thoughts from governor abbott tonight, and representative keith self, former colleague county -- >> jim cavanaugh, again, we are just listening to kxas, hoping that they can shed some light on what is happening there. the fact that we are still waiting for an update from police -- this story began to break

almost two hours ago. what does it tell you, that, almost two hours in, we are still waiting for that update? >> i don't think they have a sense of urgency, alicia. there's not a least -- the shooter is down, probably dead. so, there's no sense of urgency. they're just going to get their command staff together and get a public statement. -- realize is that the community of allen and the surrounding communities there, mckinney, plano, -- dallas, they are in a state of angst in shock. and law enforcement needs to step up to the microphone and give some data here. tell them, where is the family center, so families can go there -- is the shooter dead or wounded or in custody? they need to tell this public information the information now. i'm sure they're going to -- a certain causes a lot of stress in the community. because hundreds, maybe thousands of people are, at any given moment in america, --

on a saturday afternoon. i mean, this is a mall in america at the saturday in a mall in the spring. how many people are in there? -- multiple victims, because anyone who would pull out a gun, a handgun or a rifle, in a crowded mall like that, has lots and lots of targets before you can get away, can hit multiple people. it's just so disgusting, so tragic. you go to the mall to shop, and you are faced with the maniac who just wants to kill, mass murder, and went through, probably, the purpose of mass murder. >> state senator gutierrez -- sorry, jim cavanaugh, you finish your thought. >> no, i'm sorry. you go, ahead alicia. i >> just wanted to bring in state senator roland gutierrez, if i still have. you i believe i do. when i hear jim cavanaugh talk about family centers, i am reminded of the conversations that you and i have had around you've all day, and other

shootings, and the trauma that this influx on individuals, on families, on entire communities. one of the first conversations you and i had outside of robb elementary was your concern about the ongoing effort to make sure that that community was supported, right? we turn our attention to these stories in the moment, right? and it is critical and there is news that is unfolding and breaking. and yet there are communities that will be forever changed, even once the camera turns and you are no longer laser focused on it, and the commitment needs to be ongoing to the -- and we as a society need to begin to process the damage -- the deep, deep damage that is being done, all across this country. >> you know, alicia, i had a child go down why arms when you said that there was a mother looking for her daughter. and it brought me back to about that night of the 24th, being there at the --

you know, the civic center -- that night change the name to a reunification center. and you will recall how families needed dna to match with their children. it brings me to think about the friends that i have made over this last year in uvalde, and the pain that, i am sure they are feeling tonight. because every time there is another mass shooting, these folks -- they somehow feel their own central responsibility for not -- politicians -- create change. imagine that victims of mass shootings feeling guilty because they haven't done enough to change what is going on. that night, in the course -- the subsequent days that followed for me were a nightmare, for those families they will never be -- their broken forever. people in this country need to understand that we have to do something here in this moment.

this is not stopping. it is simply getting worse. it is getting worse every day. republicans need to wake up on this issue. and i don't mean this, by the way -- this is not a partisan issue. their republican constituents are asking for common sense gun safety solutions and -- protective orders, raising the age limit to -- we don't know anything about the shooter to ask about that, and we don't know anything about the weapon. i asked about that as well. we don't have that information yet. i know there was a higher number of casualties. and i apologize for blasting out a number earlier. i know you need to confirm that. and i know that you will. but what is happening in this nation is simply unacceptable. what's happening right now and this -- is simply unacceptable. it isn't normal. and none of us should say that this is okay. we should all be asking every state legislature, republican or democrat across this nation,

to do something about the matter that is killing our children, that is the -- reunification centers at a -- that is causing a mom to just be devastated looking for her child's and you had parents waiting 13 hours in uvalde texas on may 24th of last year waiting for news, that four, the most part, they already knew, that their children were dying. i hate to think how many hours these folks are going to think -- i hate to think if there are children out there on their own, teenagers like mine, that ask me to let them go to the mall every night -- we are we in this country? i own guns but we have gotten too far to where everybody and anybody can have access to a gun. that is just too much. we have to do something and we

have to do something now. >> -- >> i hope that this earns this governor and lieutenant governor and the speaker of the house should do something in the last 21 days of the legislative section session. >> 21 days. senator, as i'm watching you were talking i -- law enforcement officials walking through parking lots, checking the doors of cars, seeing to look inside those cars. jim cavanaugh, i hope that you saw those images coming through as well, and if you could talk us through what it does signal to you. >> well, you know, they have to make sure that if a killer goes in there, or multiple killers go in there, the -- vehicles outside the parking lot that could be filled with explosives. you don't know exactly what the scenario is here. we've had cases like that. and -- colorado comes to mind where the killer went to the movie theater, and filled with a dozen people, and he had rigged

his apartment up with extensive an elaborate explosive devices, so that when officers agents responded it would blow the apartment to kingdom come. so, guys plant bombs in their cars. you remember, as we talked earlier, alicia, that suicide is often the threat for these things. and guys would will be diabolical. once you uncover the identity of the person, the shooter at the scene, you've got to go back to his house. did he kill his spouse? or his family members? his mom and dad? his roommate? often that's the thing that starts it off. -- and he killed someone home. and then they go to a public place. and so the officers have to get his identity. it's not necessarily a csi hollywood -- i can tell you, having been a cop in a -- for 36 years, you go to his back pocket and take his wallet and you look at his drivers license, which was often there. because we when you go into the crime, you really don't have a

plan to get out of it. the whole thing is just -- mass murder suicides. so, you get his wallet. you get his address, if it's there. and you go back to his house and you have to do a careful search. and you have to see if there's any other conspirators or confederates involved. so, checking the vehicles is part of that. is there anybody that could be in the vehicle that was shot when the person drove or arrived at the mall? to the shoot someone in the parking lot? again, this is a pretty common occurrence in mass shootings, where people are shot in the parking lot. but the senator was just talking about the uvalde school and the shooting started in the parking lot at the uvalde school. many of the shooter -- get out of the car and -- start shooting as they're walking in. of course they have open carry laws and they have persons carrying a rifle, and walking across the -- not illegal in texas. those things used to be illegal, in most of the states that i worked in, you couldn't -- he would be arrested. but now, that's not even a

crime. so, you can get out in front of a mall and you can -- start walking toward the mall. somebody might call the police. but if the police stop you and you say, no, no i'm not going to hurt anybody. i'm just carrying my gun, it's my second amendment right, they can't rescue for that. so, that's how far we have taken some of the laws, from the sublime to the ridiculous. america never was like this. some young people don't realize that gun laws were never this loose. they were much stricter in the past, and they have become extremely loose. so, we need some correction here. we need some reasonable adulation. we don't need to take peoples guns away and we don't need to listen to anybody that has to do that. that's too far out. i don't think that's even in the cards. i just think we need some reasonable things. we can't let the second amendment be a suicide pact with america.

and we talk about in our family documents, the declaration, the constitution, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. it's being taken away if we treat the second amendment like a suicide pact. like, everybody can have anytime they want any -- carte blanche and this is what you get. so, we can stop a number of these from some with some good targeted legislation, without hurting lawful gun owners and hunters and people that want to protect themselves. i don't see any of that, really in the, cards. the other thing i was saying, alicia, he's that historically, if we look at gun laws, young people should benefit from this -- their grandfathers, great grandfathers and parents, when these kind of crises hit america in the past, -- pass reasonable gun legislation, like the 1934 firearms act, which outlawed -- require the registration of machine gun silencers and so

forth. it was a response to the gangsterism of the 30s. no, the john dylan hughes and alec opponents and drive-by shootings with tommy guns. and the great, great grandparents of our young people now were upset with this, and they implore the congress to do something, and congress passed a federal law that required the registration of those guns, that then was the bureau for prohibition. now it's the atf. but -- we are losing guns in crimes today -- strictly controlled. the assassinations of the 60s, jon kennedy in 1963, dr. king in 1968, bobby kennedy -- a big outcry from the parents and grandparents out of young people -- and saying, you know, you assassinate our leaders, we want to do something. and we had the 1968 control that was passed in response to that dilemma. that was a very strong law. stick to the sales between the states and said felons,

fugitives, mental defective,'s persons not legally in the country, all kinds of categories of people could not have guns. you had to go to the gun sheriffs store to buy. you had to show gun i.d.. that was a very big change. but it was a response to the assassination's. then we went up when president reagan was shot in 1981 and his press secretary, jim brady, was shot. jim brady and his family push for background checks, which we have the brady background check. they push for that. they got that change as a result of the shooting of president lincoln and -- >> jim cavanaugh -- let me just -- i do think that george salius has some new information. george soliz, what are you learning about -- >> getting a sense that this was a very busy day at the mall and about 120 stories and you see -- some of the people flooding out from the outlets. we are told that some of these people were sheltered in this or for as long as an hour. and they have accounts of just

terror from being locked inside of this store while the police and the authorities did their work. we have reports that people were evacuated to that parking lot, across from dallas. some were able to get to their cars and leave, as you mentioned. you saw some of that images not long ago, of some of the authorities there, in that parking lot. and then you also know that, right now, we have a member of a large law enforcement presence at the scene right now. but again, when you look at just how many people are in this area, about 120 stories, what we are being told right now. and it was very, very busy. so, clearly, the authorities had moved fast, and they had to move quickly to make that call, to evacuate those people, or tell those people to stay inside of the mall. again, what we are hearing right now is that the accounts of some of those people inside that store -- they are saying this was a very harrowing moment for them. what's not clear at this moment, as we've been saying, is the number of casualties or the number of people that may have been injured as a result of this shooting.

again, we are checking multiple times -- to see if we can get a more specific number. but it looks like there were some people injured as a result of the shooting, and we are looking to see what the witnesses will be telling us as far as their accounts of -- being inside that mall and where that shooter or shooters may have been in the -- outlets. >> we are just waiting for those accounts, george solis. we do have this sound of a mother who is outside the mall talking about looking for her daughter. here it is. >> i see a lot of people running. and we are wondering, like, what's happening? so, as we are approaching, we -- heavy -- so, i'm looking for my daughter. i go and run very fast. and as i'm coming, approaching the burger, you know, the starbucks, because my daughter said, shooting, yeah, i'm already here. i'm looking for you. so, the cops were already -- they were already fighting each other. there was -- a lot of people that were hiding. and so as i was going around, they told me --

and i get the feeling that i'm looking for my daughter. so, there was this mexican family of three people murdered and the dad was praying for them and he was wounded as well. >> congresswoman jasmine crockett, it is a mall, a busy ball on a saturday in the spring in america. and you have a woman looking for her daughter, the same way that you are looking for your mom. and somehow, there are people who think that this is just normal. this is now just status quo. it can't be allowed to just be normal, to just be the status quo. >> no. it can't be and it shouldn't be. it's just not who we are in this country. it is really so shameful. i don't even know how or why we even get these empty tweets from elected officials that we know have the power, yet choose

not to use it. like, honestly, i think the vast majority of us could care less about your twitter account and what you have to say on it. and honestly, would say, let's say, please save your tweet. give me legislation. give the tools to law enforcement that they need to protect us. because it's one thing to say that they support law enforcement. it's another thing to actually do it and give them the tools to make sure that the already very difficult job that they have to execute is actually one that is somewhat manageable. so, miss me, with the tweets, honestly. i don't really want to hear from my governor, to be perfectly honest. because, if he really cared, he would do more than just pray. he has the power of the pan. and people don't understand how abusive the texas house is. and i use that term knowing that it is a very strong term

that i am using. but let me tell you, the governor will call people on the house floor at their desk and tell them how to vote. so, if you wanted to do something even if, let's say, that house members were out of step, i can guarantee you that the governor could put them back in step. but that's not what they want to do. and so, why we continue to have this person in office -- well, it's a combination of things. but we should say, we deserve better. we deserve better. it's not even about the partisan politics, as the senator has already referenced. this is about saving lives and it's about being smart. it's about looking at what worked in the past and doing things that make our life better, not saying, okay, well, you know what? it wasn't so bad in the past. but we don't want to go back. we like the chaos. and honestly, that's the only thing that i can think of at

this point, is that they like the chaos. they are okay with the fact that they're losing their lives, and for people who believe that this can happen in your community, let me be clear. this can happen anywhere. it is happening everywhere. so, it is important that we wake up. i don't really care how small your town is, or how big your city is. this isn't an urban versus rural issue. this is in every single american issue. and so we need to come together and make sure that we at least require, even if you are going to keep voting for republicans, that's fine. that is what you decide to do. at least make them do the responsible thing and make them come together and do bipartisan legislation that will prove to save lives going forward. >> and, again, if you are watching, we are still waiting for an official statement from law enforcement there. so, senator gutierrez, he said

something earlier that i want to pick up on and that congresswoman jasmine crockett just reference, which is this idea that republican voters are not where republican legislators are on this issue, right? they are even missing the want and the will of their own constituents, and add some color to what it was congresswoman jasmine crockett was saying about the dynamics within your state legislature. why has this become such an intractable issue? >> you know, the voters are clearly on our side on this issue. and when i say our side, i have told you before, alicia, i'm a gun owner. i get it. i've got nine guns. i store them safely and i keep them safely. i don't have an ar-15. we should have an age limit on ar-15s. we have an age limit on handguns. like the other gentlemen said, we should have -- protective orders. in florida, 9000 extremists

protective orders have been listed. and that's where mentally ill people have access to guns, they're making threats -- we'll, then go to a judge, and let's say, we needed an order, we need a warrant to go to this house and get these guns for a while. this isn't rocket science here. we are not taking peoples guns away. we are taking guns away from people that shouldn't have, them number one, from 18, 19, and 20-year-olds that shouldn't have them. and then, of course, the gun show loophole. you can go to a gun show tomorrow in texas and pick up your ar-15 without so much as showing a drivers license. two questions -- are you a u.s. citizen? and have you been convicted of a felony? if you are buying from an unlicensed dealer, those are the questions that they ask you. that's it. easy peasy. you walk out of there just like the gentleman said, the representative before, i think he was a retired judge, if i'm not mistaken -- i apologize to him for not remembering. but if you can walk down the street in texas with your ar-15,

in austin, right down congress, or right down broadway and san antonio, or at the mall, and a cop can't even stop you, can't even ask you, hey, buddy, why do you have that ar-15? why do you have the bullets everywhere? that is a state of affairs that the republican party in texas has put us in. look, 65% of republican voters are in favor, in one poll. -- percent of republican voters are in favor in another poll of raising the image of extremists protective orders of -- those are the things that make sense and those are the things that we should be doing right now. after parkland, it took rick scott, a pretty conservative guy -- it took him 23 days to enact massive gun safety legislation. governor bill lee in tennessee, right now, is telling his

legislators -- he's already done an executive order, and he's requested executive legislation on extremis orders. greg abbott is not only out of touch. i don't really know what is wrong with him. i don't really know what is wrong with daniel patrick, or dave felix. i don't know if they just don't get it. i don't know if they are just so up the nra's you know what that they -- that they are just stuck in this space. all of this has become some weird article of faith to these people. and at some point, it's got to stop. how many more lives, how many more children, need to die? what is the acceptable number, greg abbott, and patrick date feel it? what is the acceptable number of -- we have 21 days left an i'm urging everyone in texas to get over to the capitol on monday, join those uvalde families i.

no we are going to be there. pursues day the last day to get the age limit belong to the committee and onto the floor. i know they are going to be there on monday. they urge everyone in texas that is listening to go to the capitol on monday, yell and scream, call your representative, and call your senator, and ask for change. because this is enough. how many more innocent people need to die so that you can walk around with your ar-15 fully loaded and nobody actually can do anything to stop you? >> when you talk about that call to action, congressman, i want to read you this tweet from shannon watts, from moms demand. bodies under shoots outside a mall in allen, texas. -- we are not numb, we are traumatized. -- you have to wonder, congressman, at some point, if that is what they are banking on. people watching and saying, i've seen this before, nothing can be done, there has to be belief on the part of the

american people that there is the will to get this done. >> yeah, no. it's interesting what shannon said, because i do believe that we are becoming desensitized. i do believe that for instance, this event i was just that -- and they were going through all these different shootings. and i was like, i don't remember that one, i don't remember that one. but i am a girl that graduated high school in 1999. columbine -- columbine is all i remember. so, when i was growing up -- i mean, it was a huge deal and it was a matter of, how did we get here? and i remember we had the conversations about the overcoats, and folks that wore gothic. and that was the thing. like, you are trying to figure out these loners at school. you are trying to identify what

was going on. that was one situation. now it's countless. i mean, even just in the state of texas, like i said -- we just had another shooting. i mean, they want us to be desensitized. and then they will go back -- because the texas house and the texas senate and the governor, the lieutenant governor, they could to do something. you know what they want to focus on? they want to focus on drag queens, though. because that is what matters, drag queens. this is what they are bringing through as elected officials, is, let's figure out what we are going to do about those drag queens, because they're such a big problem. last time i checked, drag queens are not the cause of death for anybody. and they are definitely not the leading cause of death for children. also, the fact that fire arms in this state legitimately have more lobbyists and seemingly more rights than women in the state is just deplorable to me.

the fact that this is the same state that prides itself on freedom, and that is why everyone has to have guns, no matter if they should have them or not, no matter what age they are, no matter if they have any training or licensing or anything -- we just want everyone to have guns because that's what freedom looks like. and it's the same state that says, even if you want your child, and you are dying, we don't know that we are going to write the law clearly enough so that your life can be saved. that is freedom in the state of texas. >> we will come back to that concept of freedom. jim cavanaugh, i want to bring you in. i want you to take a look at these images that are still coming to us from allen, texas, and also talk to me about the time stamp. we are now two hours out, more than two hours out from when this has broke. we are still waiting confirmation on a number of conversations -- you and i have been talking about for the better part of

two hours, who is the shooter? is there more than one shooter? how many victims are there? what was the motive here? what was the firearm that was used? the questions for you that you feel we should have answers to at this time. what is still burning for you? >> the main thing is is the shooter dead, captured, wounded, barricaded? we don't know the answer. we've got kind of a cryptic message that -- not an official spokesperson that we saw, but the shooter is down -- well, we need a little more specifics. i think they could put out something that could alleviate the public's fear, and maybe give a timeline when they are going to give a press conference. hopefully, that is going to be pretty soon. that's the main thing that is the static, they believe, they still got to check for coconspirators. like, you talked, alicia -- for explosives. the person's car, if it's at

the mall, if -- you know, they could have come in an uber. but if their car is there it's got to be checked, the home has got to be checked for other victims, for explosives, for firearms. so, there's a lot of work to be done by law enforcement throughout the evening. but the main job right now, i think, is to communicate something to the public, even though it's gonna be hard and heavy timings, clearly. because what we've reported on already -- >> information coming in from police let's dip in. g in fro po[inaudible] >> so this is going to be very short and i think you understand we can't take any questions. a 3:36 this afternoon, one of our officers was on an unrelated call at the outlet mall. he heard gunshots, went to the gunshots. he engage the suspect and neutralized the suspect. he also then called for an ambulances, we have a multi

agency response who helped us on the scene. we -- reunification areas. i talked to the governor, the governor has pledged all the support that the state has. we appreciate that. hope it goes without saying that our deepest sympathies are with the families of the victims, this is a tragedy. people will be looking for answers. we are sorry that those families are experiencing the loss. we will have another briefing -- the fire chief is gonna talk in just a minute. but we will have another briefing in just about two hours. we anticipate having it here, but if we don't, we will let you know where it is. >> hello, i am jonathan boyd, a -- like chief harvey said, i also don't have a lot of information, but we do have is we immediately implemented our active attack integrated response and from the rescue task force with the police so that we could quickly get to the victims here at the site.

we transported nine victims from two area trauma facilities. those are the ones that the allen fired reported. there are others who are transported in vehicles, but those are the ones that we know of. thank you. >> can you talk about the victims? >> no. >> chief harvey, can you answer some questions please? >> jim cavanaugh, you just heard the update that we got about the officer on an unrelated call at 3:36 local time, heard gunshots, neutralized the suspect. ambulances were called, the evacuation we are now watching unfold. the one thing i did pick up on in there is the victims,

plural. is there anything that i missed? >> no, i think you've got it, alicia. that's the key information. an officer in the mall on an unrelated call, here's the gunshots, and shoots the killer. the killer got all those rounds prior to the officer being able to stop him, that's because even if your present, you can't be the trigger of a semi automatic weapon. they put the rounds out so fast. we've got some death, we've got a lot of destruction, a lot of angsty there, and allen. we have a brave cop who went to the gunfire and stop them. if you didn't stop them, he might've continued his rampage and -- in the crowded mall. >> jim, i'm sorry to interrupt you. jim, i'm so sorry to interrupt. you they did step back to the mic. my producers are listening in and watching, two pieces of information i want to bring to you for your assessment. one is they did not yet have firm numbers, that's part of

why they are not giving us a number. and to, they believe that he acted alone. >> yeah, well. it's good news that he acted alone. it should relieve the fear and the community now. those are key pieces of information. off-duty officer dropped some, they believe he's acting alone. so now the risk is gone and just the pain and agony remains. that's what the community is gonna have to deal with over the weekend and the coming weeks. >> jim, help me understand -- if the shooter was neutralized as we just heard law enforcement officials say there, why than what they not be forthcoming about the victim count? >> i think they're just slowing down. they don't need to. if he's dead, there's not gonna be prosecution. he acted alone. there's no reason why they need a detective or forensic analysts going around and counting the deceased. they may not have a good handle

on the wounded because they got transported. some of the deceased could've gotten transported to. there's always some confusion. but i do think it's better for the community that they have something they know, they have some idea of what the numbers are that is going around in the police circles. they can say, look, it's possible we missed a number here. i'm gonna give you a preliminary number. someone could've been taken away and -- now we missed it. but this is what we think we have. these numbers are going to change. give people an idea of what the tragedy is. they'll probably do that in two hours. but the main gangs that has been settled, the community is not as safe as it used to be which is just safe until we get the next shooter. but safe as it used to be before this killer went on a rampage. allen pd officer and another call, he went right to the gunfire. and the officer --

that's another key point. the killer has a gun, the officer has a gun. and if he's on another call, it's probably just has a sidearm. i doubt he was on the call. i was a uniformed officer, and i've been on many calls, and we didn't get out of the car with a rifle to answer the call. unless it was a robbery or something in progress. so he's probably out on the call, he's got his sidearm, he hears the gunfire. he responds. maybe he was near his car. maybe he could get a tactical rifle out of the trunk of his car. that's possible to. and then he responded. at an event, he won the gunfight and the killer lost. that's because the police are good shots, their train frequently and they know what to do. this officer acted real brave. >> still a question there of between the timeless between the call and -- i'm sure new details will come up soon. we have new sound coming in from a girl that was in the mall at the time in hidden and storage. take a listen.

>> we were about to leave the store, we were shopping a true religion. we were about to leave the store and we found out the door was locked and the people around us were saying that there was a shooting going on. so the staff assured us to the, back and 30 minutes later, there's a lot of commotion. we were all ushered into the store room. we stayed in the store room for about an hour and a half. and we were evacuated at 5:15-ish. some police officers came in, they had these huge guns strapped to their test, and they told us all to put our hands out up, walk out. we followed the police and a huge line. and then we tried to go to our car, but the cars blocked off by fire trucks. so now we're just waiting here. >> you are waiting about an hour and a half in the storage room. what were people saying? how did you feel when you were waiting? >> a lot of us were looking at new sources and anything on twitter, social media. it was kind of scary hearing that a lot of the victims were found outside of h&m, which was across the street from us.

we could hear sirens and -- how many shooters are there, if the police are there. it was scary. there was a woman who went to stay behind a little bit for evacuation because she was changing her diaper for her child. and, it was terrifying, actually. >> your dad was saying as you guys were finally able to come out, you are coming out with your hands and right now it sounds like you guys are kind of waiting and trying to get your car. >> yeah. our cars are blocked off by fire trucks right now, because we parked within the perimeter. so unfortunately, we just have to wait here until the whole situation cools down. >> representative guterres, you take the layers of this, you take a young american who has likely done these drills in school, now doing it in the mall on a weekend in the spring. the image she relays of a woman who stayed behind because she had a baby with her. she needed to change the baby's diaper. we can say that they are lucky

because they are physically safe in this moment, and yet the trauma of that is likely to be enduring. >> yeah, no. this trauma, it doesn't go away. it doesn't go away. tonight, for the young lady or anybody there. you know, the people in uvalde who are dealing with this a year ago, not just the families, of course the victims are and the parents of the deceased children. but people in the town still have this feeling, this emptiness, this will stay in the city of allen for sometime, and they will feel it for many years to follow. it is a horrific event. i hope that people understand who are listening, they are a

number of people who are not coming home tonight. i stated a number earlier, we are waiting to confirm that. i hope i'm wrong. but there are likely a number of people that aren't coming home. mothers, daughters, fathers, grandparents, who knows. they're just not coming home. is the likely reality of that. what was said by the police chief is a confirmation of some of the information i received earlier from the department of public safety. this is happening all too much in america. all too much in this state. i don't know if there is any turning back from it. but i sure know that the lawmakers, this lieutenant governor, speaker of the house, they have a responsibility before them. because we can make it. we can actually change a few laws to make it harder for

people to access weaponry. i don't know what kind of weapon this person had. but let's assume it was a ar-15, if indeed that many people were wounded and killed. on how in the world are we allowing people to access these guns so freely and easily. these are weapons that are used in field of battle. these magazines are so large, we are lost in this space. we should -- be live in a country where we should absolutely know everybody who has a gun, what type of person they are, what kind of propensity is they have. imagine that, we have enough information before us to find those things out. we have enough technology to find out those things. and unfortunately, we don't have enough political courage to say, no work we're gonna do. we're not going to do that. these republicans don't want to

do the most basic things to safeguard us. you need a license to drive the car. you need insurance to drive the car. the dmv knows exactly what kind of car that ayo. and yet, we know nothing about who is picking up the ar-15 of the gun show, illegal sales, or anything. the trauma that these families are facing will last forever. people in america and people in texas need to wake up. you need to wake up. this is not some partisan, democrat thing. little cars are dying. people are dying needlessly. we are not -- we are at war with ourselves. not in battlefield, this is an iraq, this isn't afghanistan. this is a mall in texas.

a school in uvalde a year ago, a church in sutherland spring's. i'm glad that police officer rolled up. i'm glad he was there at the right time. i'm glad he took that person down as quick as he could, and yet we have massive casualties. imagine what would've happened at this person been locked up in a store, sequestered himself, imagine if we had the same kind of police response that occurred in uvalde. these things do not happen, in a vacuum. sometimes, things go right in the sense that a cop shows up, he takes the suspect down immediately. sometimes they don't go right. and we've seen what happens when it don't go right. and we have more loss of life, more trauma, we've got to do something. we are absolutely working.

we are absolutely broken here, alicia. >> representative crockett, as i listen to state senator gutierrez talk us through this, talk us through the window of potential action that could happen in the state legislature, i think there are folks who will say, you watch what happened in uvalde and we did not see action from the texas leaders, we didn't see action from the governor, we did not see action from the legislation move, the way we wanted to see the move. but then by the take? what is it that moves the needle? >> i think that's the million dollar question. what will it take? i think the question was posed earlier. how many deaths will it take? i said earlier, as it maybe, it's a matter of it having to literally hit home because seemingly, the people have lost

sight from what we've been elected to do. they've lost sight of who it is that we are to be held accountable to. and for a group of people who are pushing the most conservative religious, kind of agenda that we've ever seen in this country, you would think that if anything, just love thy neighbor and do something. they are showing no left, they are showing no courage, they are showing no faith by actually getting to work and doing the action side of it. it is heartbreaking that even as an elected official, i feel powerless because i can't have a reasonable conversation with folks across the aisle half the time about something like, hey, let's save lives. because as i've stated before, i'm not looking at the images and, saying those are good

democrats. to be perfectly honest, for real about it, you read the statement from keith self. come and tell me where this happened, is a republican county. but you know what? i don't care. there are people there, they've been injured, there are people who have most likely died. what i care about is doing my job and once you are elected to office, it really shouldn't be about if you have a d r r i in front of your name. it should be about what policies makes sense for people. that's what should be focused on. and there is seemingly one group of folk -- we seemingly that's where we are, and i'm just asking, just for a couple of them, at least in the u.s. house, i mean we are down by five. we just need five people to have courage to say, you know what? we really want a better country. so yes, we will partner up with you, democrats. we will come up with legislation that makes sense

for everybody. >> i am struck, congresswoman, by the thought that you and i were supposed to be sitting here tonight to talk about the debt limit and negotiations on capitol hill, and yet here we are talking about another mass shooting in this country. i appreciate the time that you have given us. i want to bring in jim kavanaugh before we go. jim, where does this go from here? >> it's going to be a big investigation. either they're going to do a psychological autopsy on the killer. where is he been in his mind the last six months, what was his planning, why did he do this, what's his motivation. that's not going to be a prosecution if he's there in jimmy office was a rogue experience. just trying to see if we can stop the next one. it will take a long time if we have multiple deaths in, there will be the next few days, we're gonna have the areas shut down. they're gonna try to do the right thing for the families and get all the facts. it's really on some points,

it's a hollow job because there isn't going to be a prosecution. and yet, america wants to know the facts and law enforcement is trained in their job and their habit is to get the facts. that's what they're gonna do. the issue a statement about why, when, how, so forth. hopefully, hopefully will help us stop the next one. but as the representative said, it's -- if you vote for the guys that only vote with the gun lobby who will never do anything about anything, then you're never gonna get a change. so you have to vote for people that are reasonable. they're not extreme on either side, there are reasonable people and want to do something reasonable. and there are reasonable laws that can target so many of these people that ten mass killings, 77% of them like their intent, according to the fbi report. we should target those people with the right laws. we can greatly reduce this

number. we're not going to eliminated totally, but we could eliminate any crime totally. but we can reduce it. and gun laws to reduce crimes, and i can tell you at atf, we stopped killings every day, multiple times across the country, by taking off bad guys with guns. you can do it, it can help, but you've gotta like somebody who is not only in some city area of the gun lobby. someone who will do something, republican or democrat, to something that's right for the kids and families for of america. >> jim kavanaugh, as always, thank you so much for staying with us through this grueling coverage. we're just watching images of fbi team members. we also want to thank state senator gutierrez. that's it for this hour. i'm alicia menendez. are we live look at the texas mall shooting continues live with a man. >> good evening everyone, i'm