>> welcome back to our special

coverage. i'm kate firing live from msnbc headquarters live in new york. this morning, memphis in the rest the country is trying to come to grips with the newly released video of police officers beating, kicking, tasing, pepper spraying tyre nichols, it's 49 year old unarmed black man. it was a beating that ultimately resulted in tyre nichols death, and murder charges for the five now former police officers. to begin this hour, i'm going to hear from his mother about what kind of son he was. >> my son, i know everybody says, mother say that they had a good son, everybody son is good, but my son actually was a good boy. >> he had my name tattooed on

his arm. that made me proud. most kids don't put they mom's name. but he did. my son was a beautiful soul. and he touched everyone. >> that is just so getting to hear from her. and now we are going to play a part of the video that was released last night. but i want to warn you, it is graphic, it is violent, and it's unbelievably disturbing. here is a portion of the footage from the beginning of the so-called traffic stop. [bleep] >> get out of the car! [bleep] >> all right, all right. >> on the ground. >> all right, all right. >> you don't do that, okay? >> get on the [bleep] ground! >> [bleep] >> all right, i'm on the ground. [bleep] >> nichols then took

off running before police tackled him at a second location. this video that you're seeing now shows. that is taken from a mounted security camera, and so there's no audio, but you can clearly see the officers crowding around tyre nichols, beating him. one of them even appears to have a baton. and then the police start pepper spraying him, and he cries. allowed, repeatedly, for his mother, who just lives yards nearby. >> give me your hand! >> spray it again! >> mom! mom! [screaming] mom? mom! [screaming] >> before last

night's release of the video, tyree nichols's family called for calm and peaceful protest. that's largely what we saw in major cities last night as crowds hit the streets to make their voices heard. we also heard from president biden in the hours leading up to memphis police releasing the video. >> i spoke with tyre mother, express my console and says, and told it that i was making a case of the congress to get this under control. i can only do so much with an executive order at this level. >> we begin our coverage this hour with antonia hylton who is live in memphis, and monica alba at the white house. antonio, set the scene for us, what has it been like being in memphis over the last 24 hours, and what you expecting to see today? >> good morning katie, you know, it has been a top 24 hours for the city as people first had to brace for what they were warned

was going to be horrific and hard to stomach, and then people were really shell-shocked. i saw different groups of loved ones or friends who took part in some of the protest. just watching the video, talking with each other, people were calm. but they were in immense pain. and i expect to see a lot of people have some of the same conversations today. i also know that i've been in conversation with some of the faith leaders here in this community, and even though it is saturday, they are planning to meet with some of their congregations or talk to some of their folks in their communities and offer them some spiritual support, and give them a ear that will listen, because i expect to see a lot of people need that kind of love today. and i think the next phase and all of this is going to be additional calls for accountability and understanding. officials didn't usually good job of warning people here in memphis what they were going to see. immediately, we had the police

chief davis out in front describing sort of the nature of the horrors there. we had the da giving statements a meeting with reporters, which often, people are fighting tooth and nail to get scraps of information when the stories happened, but there are still things people don't understand. we do not understand the beginning of this traffic stop. we don't see any evidence of tyre nichols of all committing a crime, or a driving infraction. people want to know more about what precipitated all of this. and then, at the end of this video, when he is supposed to be receiving aid, when he's just experience all that brutality, about 20 minutes go by before a stretcher is brought him, before real support is given to him, even though it is very clear that he is an english, and we know that he has told them that he is short of breath. has told them that he i short and so i kept, there it rs questions about more than just the five officers who are facing these charges. and we know that the sheriff has released two deputies of their duties in association with all of this, but you are going to hear the community call for more very likely katie.

>> you know antonia, there may be some very unanswered questions, but the one thing that is very clear is that there was an unjustified loss of life, and that is tyre nichols. thank you so much for letting us know what is happening in memphis. we will turn to monica alba who is there for us at the white house. >> katie, the president was a very engaged on this all day yesterday, bracing for the release of the video, which he did watch, hauling the beating that led to tyre nichols's death horrific and saying that the footage will quote leave people justifiably outrage. he echoed the nichols families call for calm and memphis and other major cities, pleading with protesters not to resort to violence or destruction. writing a statement overnight, violence is never acceptable, it is illegal and destructive. earlier in the day, the president did speak by phone with mr. nichols mother and stepfather, in which he said that there are no words to describe the heart break and grief of losing a beloved child and young father. the president said he will also continue to move for meaningful

movement on police reform on capitol hill beyond what he's been able to do so far through executive action. when asked for what is next, the president stressed that he wants to see a swift, full, and transparent investigation, which the vice president echoed as well. and before leaving for camp david for the weekend, president biden told reporters he was worried about the potential for violent protests, but also that what might happen in the wake of this tragedy will demonstrate what kind of a nation united states really is, saying that it has a lot to do with whether or not we are the country we say we are. katie? >> thanks to monica alba. so now i want to bring in one of the attorneys that is representing tyre nichols's family. antonio romanucci, thank you so much for joining, us i know you have a lot going on, the first thing i have to ask use the most important. how is the nichols family doing in these last 12 hours since the video was released? what has been their reaction to this national outrage? >> well i think they are doing

probably as well as they can. i have seen their rollercoaster ever motions over the last couple of weeks. and certainly, it was helpful that they were able to see the video so early this week. they're able to cope with it for a little bit of time. but now that the video has been released, they are very grateful, they are thankful that what they always knew is true in that tyre was peaceful, he was respectful, indeed he was the one who was trying to de-escalate the situation with the police officers. it was them who escalated it from 1 to 10 in a matter of seconds. and so they are very very happy to see that tyree is the one who was the one trying to bring the temperature down. >> antonio, my question for you is, now that we've seen how these cases are brought to trial, we also know that there are two additional sheriff deputies that have been suspended, that had been fired.

do you think that the district attorney is going to be looking at a prosecution in this case that actually was made easier because of the existence of this body cam footage? >> i don't think there's any question that the video is extremely helpful. you saw swift action here because of the quality of the video, the angle of the video, the length of the video, and so there is no question that not only do i see more charges being brought, and we already know that the shelby county sheriff's office suspended two of its deputies, but i certainly would expect, and it's my opinion that there are many other officers who were on scene they were culpable, as we were just reporting. i think just as heinous as the beating was the fact that they left him writhing in pain and agony for 20 minutes before there were any medical aid rendered, when they could've been doing that themselves for him.

instead, they stood around, they vaped, they poured water on themselves from nearby garden hoses. and so i would expect more charges to be brought, because of this failure to render aid or even, intervene. >> and an important question i think that eye as well as many my viewers want to know is, what does justice look like for tyre nichols's family? 29 years old, a father, working hard, you know, just living his life, and it's cut so short. have they spoken to you about what justice would be for them? >> that's a great question. there are so many different lanes of justice that i don't know that even if we accomplish and fulfill each one that we really do in a justice for the family. but having said that, when you listen to the mother, when she says that there was an assignment here, but god had an assignment for tyree, what we know as a country that we have

to fight for tyree and for all of the other tyree's that could be out there. and so we have the administrative lanes of justice, the civil justice, the criminal justice, the legislative justice, which is so important. we are not going to have, we are not going to stop other tyre's from happening until our voices are heard in washington again, and we get some federal uniformity of reform. we're all the states are acting the same when it comes to policing. >> i asked one of my guests in the earlier hour about the speed by which the charges were brought, they arrests were made. do you think it was in large part because there has been a culture shift of its own in the memphis police department, there is a woman of color who's the chief of police. >> not only did chief davis do the right thing by swiftly terminating those police officers, shelby county did the right thing by actually bringing those charges. whether or not chief davis race

had anything to do with it, i would like to say that it did not, and actually chief davis saw what we all see on the video, the brutality, the savage, really the violence of that video, and she brought charges because they were deserved. now we know that she is a mother. does that have something to play in? it almost certainly could. who doesn't? who has a solo heart watching that video, and feel the emotion. >> you know antonio, there was something that was said, which is that the intent was good about that scorpion unit, we're all of the officers were a part of, but the result was a failure. do you think it is absolutely necessary for these types of street crimes operation task force, do you think is necessary for them all to be disbanded, or just admit this? >> i have very strong feelings that these special operation units should be all disbanded. of course they talk about that their function is to stop crime,

they're suppression units, they are saturation units. i actually referred to them as oppression units. i am from chicago originally and i know that chicago had its own unit which was disbanded because it also became corrupt. it was the sos, they call it sos here. i've seen this play out throughout the country. these units lined up acting with whispered impunity because they are task is to stop crime, and the use tactics that are unconstitutional and illegal to accomplish this goal of policing. so i strongly feel that they should not be and existence. >> antonio romanucci, thank you so much for joining us again this morning, and i'm looking forward to seeing the justice that is brought to tyre nichols family. thank you for being here. >> thank you so much, good morning. >> and coming, up the tyre nichols speeding is drawn comparisons to the 1991 beating

of rodney king. randi kaye's former attorney is here. plus, the release of a 9-1-1 calls and the body camera footage from the attack on nancy pelosi's husband has reignited concerns about gop vilification of democrats. that will be later this hour.

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as the nation process the violent footage of five memphis police officers brutally kicking and punching tyre nichols, many are drawing comparisons to the 1991 beating of rodney king. jane, then a 25-year-old black man, was driving on a los angeles highway when police officer chased and pulled him over for speeding. after rodney king exited the car, officers fired a stun gun at him and brutally beat him. nearby civilian capture the gruesome attack on video, it was aired over and over again all over the news. after a jury failed to convict the four officers a year later, los angeles erupted into five

days of riots, which left more than 60 people dead and more than 2000 injured. we are joined this morning by civil rights attorney john burris, who represented the late rodney king. john, thank you so much for joining us this morning. obviously a lot of comparisons, i loving the similarities between what happened right nicking in tyre nichols. but i want to start with this first question. in the obituary for rodney king, he had been interviewed about his arrest, and he said quote, it made the world a better place. i have to get your reaction drawn. that was 1991. 2023, how is this still happening, as we saw tyre nichols? >> i will say that the words in fact weren't true in the sense that things did change substantially. it was really the first time that a general white population had a chance to see that level of police brutality, which the black community had seen all of the time. and so that to me was the opening of the door for this window of how african americans

are treated by the police. there's been steady progress since then and the most important thing has been the cell phones and the cameras. some departments have engaged in reform, and ronnie king certainly was the impetus for a lot of that. of course, it did not go all the way, and in the rodney king case to me, it was the attitudes towards him. when he was viewed less as a human being, like a big animal, and i see the same thing taking place here with tyree. you could not treat a human being the way they did, but if you thought they didn't care about them as a human being, and that they had feelings, and rodney king clearly was that. since then, of course, body cameras and search warrants, officers have been involved and have demonstrated that you can make some progress. but i will tell, you it is not full progress, because these incidents keep happening all over the country, and because we haven't had one voice to speak for it. barack obama's 21st century

policing, obviously last year, they tried to put the george floyd policing act, but the willingness to commit to a national effort will always be difficult, because they're 18,000 police agencies here, and all of them have their own individual cultures, their own individual way of doing things, and unless they are led by political leaders in the town, whether it's police chief, the mayor, the city administrators, they will hold officers accountable, and you can never really get a handle and change the culture of the department. it is the culture that is important, because that culture is handed down from one generation to the next, and then black officers come in, they adopt that culture, and they actresses badly some of the white officers. not all officers of the same, but they do act like that, and so i'm not surprised by the brutality of these black officers. i'm sure they've had black officers like them, and i know that they can engage in similar conduct. however, the training is

important, but most officers are trained. the training is not the issue. it is the accountability and holding these officers responsible, and not making excuses for them. you know the issue here to me, and this case here is, look, how can these officers think that they can engage in this level of brutality and not be held to answer because it must be that they had a supervisor that will cover and accept any rationalization they offered. and we heard these men seeking to offer up explanations. did he reach for my gun, a common phenomenon, which rarely ever happens. he was not compliant. he would not give me his hand. each time they use that in ways to deliver more punishment to him. those are the kind of things that you have to overcome. and that means that there has to be critical analysis, critical review of the officer's conduct, within the department there and such as the sergeant, the lieutenant, and we had a situation that opened but we had to revamp the entire department for reform.

and that's been over 20 years, and it is still not done. this is not challenge, but the problem is that we still have african americans and hispanics being killed under very questionable circumstances, and one of the biggest is the pretense of arrest which we have here, and that is the claim that he was reckless and -- probably was not. and that was pretext. >> john, i have less than a minute, and i did want to quickly ask you this question. let's talk about progress. we have body cams. we have these things that didn't exist back, ubiquitous all phones, everyone has, one towards floyd's case was made because there were cell phones there. but they did this to tyre nichols on a video knowing that they had the body cams, knowing that the scope was located on the pole. how do you make those changes. you talk about the local level making some changes, but you have to break the culture somehow. is it enough of a deterrent

that these officers have been swiftly arrested in that they are going to prosecute for what they did. >> just enough with them, of course it's important for that to occur, but there's a bigger larger problem. you have some consistency in the application of punishment in the holding of officers accountable, that is something that has to be statewide. and national until you have that, you have different spots along the way with different forms successful. one city had reform, and the other had a dozen. that doesn't necessarily make reform. and that occurred throughout the country, and a difficult challenge, and this is just another example of, it much like ranking was. >> and john burris, counsel for the late rodney king, thank you for being here, i appreciate it, and they give you the insight. and coming up, this video is putting increased pressure on congress to really act on police reform. julie tsirkin is live on capitol hill with the reality check on whether that is

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ongoing across the country in the wake of tyre nichols's death. people took the streets several cities after memphis police department released disturbing video of that deadly interaction. president biden campaigned on the promise to reform policing, but so far lawmakers have been unsuccessful when it comes to legislation. let's go back to julie tsirkin with the latest. you know, congress failed to pass police reform laws in the past, we've seen it tried mid attempted multiple times. is there any legitimate reason to believe that they are capable of actually doing something now? t >> you know, katie i will be brutally honest, because i think this moment deserves it. in congress, everything is about momentum and timing. and i covered those last round of police reform talks in 2021, and when they fell apart in the september of that year, it was kind of a shock to all of us,

because look, there were good faith efforts between senators tim scott, the republican from south carolina, and senator cory booker, the democrat from new jersey, who were leading these talks at the time. they were the only two black men here in the senate, and ultimately talks fell apart over the issue of qualified immunity, and that is because all of those unions that -- was talking about gun involved, and of course their voices were something that particular republican members wanted to make sure we heard. and so now in a time of divided government, president biden has a house republican majority that is short to block any legislation that would ever come out of the senate, but despite all of that, but court releasing a statement overnight saying, in the coming days, as this new congress is beginning, i will be renewing my legislative efforts to advance the reform that we need, and that americans are demanding. >> you know, with a divided congress, is there anything that we could see president biden do to supersede any of the roadblocks that congress may be doing because they're just too partisan? >> president biden signed an

executive order in may of 2022, it pinchot calls, it bans certain things that many states frankly we're already doing around the country. in the wake of those heated protests that we saw after the killing of george floyd. and so it is unlikely that he can unilaterally do anything by himself without a coordinated all out federal approach to tackle this issue head-on. and i think the main issue, as we talk to protesters and activists on this, is the issue of qualified immunity. there's already many actions that states have taken, including some mirroring of the republican bill that was introduced and blocked by democrats on the floor in the wake of george floyd's murder. those are already being put into effect, like there's no chokeholds, no knock warrants, some of the things that president biden outlined in his executive order, and it's really unlikely he will be able to do anything else without lawmakers coming together in this building and seeing if they can really do something to make sure that the stops happening in this country. >> as always, i'm grateful to

have you, thank you julie tsirkin live in washington d.c.. and coming up, civil rights attorney ben crump is now calling for tyrese law, it's all about accountability for police officers who don't intervene in situations like the one that tyre was in. gotta bring about real change? that is next. that is next (cecily) nah, you're still a genius. but, there is a smarter way to save. (einstein) oh?! (cecily) switch to verizon! for a limited time, get welcome unlimited for just $25/line. (einstein) $25?! (cecily) and it's guaranteed for 3 years! (einstein) brilliant! (cecily) well, you would know. (einstein) i'm switching! (cecily) i think the bike's probably faster. (vo) now is the best time to switch to verizon. for just $25 a line. guaranteed for 3 years. the savings that last. on the network you want. verizon. >> the family of tyre nichols

their attorneys are now calling for lawmakers to consider

tyre's law. he would demand accountability for officers who failed to intervene when they seek crimes being committed by their fellow officers. they're also calling for the so-called scorpion unit to be disbanded. police officers charged with the murder were part of that unit which was created to address violent crimes within the community. the memphis mayor says that that unit has been inactive since nichols's death. a former member of obama's 24th century police task force and black lives matter activists brittany cunningham joins me now. brittani, always good to see you, but under the circumstances, the really aren't in the words. i know other guests in the last hour, talk about obama's policing task force, and what it was supposed to do, it was created following the police shooting of michael brown, all the way back in 2014. did you think all these years later you and i will still be dealing with this conversation about the same thing? >> sadly, yes. because police violence was not invented the date that michael

brown junior were shot and killed by ferguson police officer darren wilson. we have been experiencing this kind of brutality at the hands of people who are supposedly serve and protect us for decades. it's unfortunately, it is going to take us longer than just a few years to get out of this situation, especially when so many people are reticent to recognize and acknowledge the truth. you know katie, i did a quick google search yesterday when i was preparing for these conversations. i prayed and i spoke with memphis organizers to make sure i was amplifying the right things, but i also wanted to google video of tyre's mother, because i wanted to hear from her to really center myself and have the appropriate conversations and approaches, and you know google will predict the kind of searches that you might want to make based off of how popular searches have been going about

the topic that you type in. so i type didn't tyre nichols's name, and underneath that was tyre nichols criminal record. tyre nichols that's video. tyre nichols guilt. and so the implication that we are still in a place where the person who has suffered from police violence, the person who is now dead after a traffic stop, would be guilty for his own murder is a very sad but relevant reminder that we are going to be in the situation for a while, because society still refuses to see what we are really dealing with. >> brittani, let's talk about human nature. then you could get tyre's law on the books, the fact that you have to put anything like that as a law is disgusting to me. the idea that you have for somebody under the law to have to intervene when fellow officer is doing something illegal, but there are rules. policies, procedures, and all these departments. i'm having this conversation over an over again this morning because it doesn't make sense to me. you keep on trying to pass legislation, which obviously

would be great, but you have to change the culture. and i asked some of these gusts, how do you reform, this and it's really just kind of amorphous. because you have to make the individual officers care enough about human life to make sure that they do the right thing. what is the answer? is there one? >> well even more than that katie, besides just correcting individual animus, we have to recognize that this is a systemic issue. that when you look at the roots of policing enslaved patrols, during one of the most heinous chapters of american history, when you look at the fact that so often this is about controlling bodies, controlling black bodies, controlling homeless bodies, controlling impoverished bodies, that is not just an individual issue, that's not even just a cultural issue. that requires us to look at the entire institution, and really say, is this about serving and protecting? or is this about serving wealth and protecting property. too often it is the latter.

and so we need to actually be innovative. that is what our country supposed to be known for. we need to use our spirit of innovation to actually protect the most fundamental aspects of democracy, meaning that citizens of america should not be subject to violence at the hands of the state when they are simply trying to get home as tyre nichols was that night. and really that innovation requires us to reimagine what public safety look like. it means putting things into money in the things that are so often criminalize, like homelessness, mental health, and more. and to make sure that people have the right resources they need from the ground up, instead of police being top down, and it means that we need to look at the way that we are spending our money and move a lot of that money from loaded police budgets and things like the scorpion unit to places like mental health responses when people need that. like the proper traffic support when people get into an accident, because that does not need to involved an armed officer.

there are solutions here, but the solution, frankly, is to rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. that will take time, that will take patience, and that will take money, and far too many people are not willing to commit those things. >> because of the almighty dollar. you know britney, getting rid of something like the scorpion unit, by the way, they are not exclusive to memphis. every city, every major city has the saturation units where they go and they swarm specific areas of a community. oftentimes black and brown communities, right, that is where they're located. that is just a bandage on a hemorrhaging wound here. i have had this conversation today. i think change came very quickly and there was consequence for what happened in memphis, because there was a female chief of police. a woman of color who actually was at a room of a big huge bureaucracy like your police department that said, this is not going to happen on my watch. there's going to be accountability, is a part of

the reform, is that part of the change to? >> i think that we've seen the kinds of reforms and experiments to further diversify police departments, to further diversify police leadership, and unfortunately these tragedies are still happening under their watch. we look at one of the officers who was involved in the killing of george floyd. he was a black man who said that he entered the police force to try and change things from the inside, and now he is involved with one of the most heinous acts of police violence that we have seen this decade. unfortunately, when you look at an institution that is inherently anti black, inherently anti female, inherently anti progress, it can be incredibly challenging to be a black person, or person of color or a woman or a progressive and try to make progress in the police that is not built for. it again, i think that we need to look at truly reimagine nights -- we imagining this from the ground up and recognize that these kind of band-aid solutions that sounds good,

unfortunately we've given them time to work, and last year the police killed more people than they ever have before since we have been keeping records. so unfortunately, those reforms are not proving to work, and we go back to the drawing board. >> it's an uphill battle, but with people like you brittani packet cunningham, i have some hope. thank you for being here this morning and your analysis. i really appreciate it. >> coming up, we are tracking another disturbing video released yesterday. new footage of the attack on paul pelosi. it is prompting questions about the gop's vilification of democrats. democrats.

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video that was released friday. this one showing the brutal attack on speaker nancy pelosi's husband at the couple's home last year in october. the video shows the moment san francisco police arrived at their home and confronted the intruder, who is really a hammer, before he allegedly attacked mr. pelosi. what you're about to see is

very disturbing. >> i, are you doing. >> how are you? >> what's going on? >> everything is good. >> hi. >> drop the hammer. >> nope. >> hey -- >> hey, -- >> the intruder admitted and a recorded statement to the police that he broke into the pelosi's home with the intention of holding speaker nancy pelosi hostage and hammering her if she quote lied to him. i wanna bring in my starting morning political panel, form republican strategist and michael singleton. also joining onset is democratic strategist basil -- how republicans way to continue to pretended art very real consequences, violent consequences to them perpetrating the baseless lies

that there were something untoward going on at the pelosi home. >> they simply won't do, it because it serves their interest. we have heard stories and seen reports about individuals taking shots at democratic officials and the secretary of state in michigan is consistently done that. with the threats. we see this over and over and over again. and it's simply serves the interests of some individuals in the republican party in positions of power to maintain the slide, and maintain this narrative. at any cost. and it's clearly costing people their lives. but when this report first came out last year, all i could think about was in 80 plus-year-old old man fighting for his life. >> as we saw. >> as we saw. and the problem is that they don't seem to be any breaks on this. it doesn't seem to be anyone really standing up and saying, look, we have to put him into this narrative in an into this kind of language. and actually think more about protecting our democracy than bring it down. but the more silence that exists, the more you will see

attacks like this. >> shermichael, silence is being complicit, and so that's what they say, it's the fact that the house -- kevin mccarthy is allowing for all sorts of nonsensical committees to be formed, does that mean that it becomes very possible that we are going to see more threats of violence? >> i mean what amazes me is that kevin mccarthy doesn't have any power to corral his caucus. and we know this, he has given away every single thing, as my gates likes to say, he gave everything up a speaker, why should he be speaker? and so what that said katie, you know, basil is right. words do matter. and we need are effective officials to speak up against the kind of vitriolic acts. we reached the pinnacle point in this country were tribalism has reached such a height where people view the other ideological side as a threat to the very existence. that is very very dangerous, and when you study history, and you think about why great societies decline, it is very

rare that is because of a foreign intervention. it's usually because of domestic turmoil that we are witnessing right now in our very country. so i would urge my former party to speak out against this. >> so basil, i have to talk about this, because the tyre nichols videos obviously, before we started the segment, you said the actually teaching a course about police reform. i have to get your thoughts about how -- what are you saying to students? >> class on monday, the lecture for the day is how do we get here? and sadly, over and over and over again, we consistently see examples of why we need to continue to talk about this. what we saw was policing. individuals who are acting without fear of punishment. without accountability, and as we saw the video without supervision. after we stood around, we stood around and told tales of the incident, and i fully expected more of them to pull out a

cigar and essentially celebrate what happened. it was incredibly disturbing. it's disgusting. i remember rodney king, but i also remember amadou diallo industry crime unit, 41 shots, he was at 19 times. these are units that should not exist but they exist beyond the normal accountability and lines of reporting within police departments. this is incredibly disturbing, and of course, i believe we will continue to see it. >> shermichael, not all cops are bad, right? we are not going to paint a broad swath of saying all cops are bad, but the deterrence is important. i was telling basel before we started, i have an eight-year-old. if you don't have discipline in there isn't consequence to what you do, if it just empty words that you are delivering to your child, there will be no consequence. she is going to run rampant, right? and so what is the difference here? is it cops policing each other?

cup saying you shouldn't do that? is it the george floyd justice in policing act coming to fruition, what is the answer in terms of a real deterrent for this type of police misconduct? >> i think it's going to take a combinational things at the local level, the state level, and the federal level. it's also going to take giving those good of officers an opportunity weather is on the record or maybe they can do it to disclose, but speaking on it and reporting against other officers who commit these types of acts. you have to empower them without fear of retribution from other individuals on the force. and part of the problem is many those who want to intervene or say something, katie, oftentimes don't because they fear how others on the force are going to treat them. and so what that said, as you sort of alluded to, we do have to have this balance of keeping people safe. and then instilling the laws, et cetera, that's what police officers are essentially for. and oftentimes you will see some officers saying that we have to have this powerful

force that is commensurate with the type of criminal activity occurring in some of these areas. my simple response to that is, if we focus on education, if we focus on strengthening families, if we focus on things that are going to empower people to have the resources that they need, then you really would not need the type of police forces that we need in many of these places. it so i think our direction is oftentimes on the wrong thing, katie. >> basil, i have less than a minute, but i have to ask. you are teaching kids, they're in the twenties, they're definitely kids in my opinion, but you teaching kids. how do they have hope? especially those that are young black man. how do they have hope that they're not going to be the next tyre nichols? >> we talk to each other, in fact. a number of people that i talk to that of questions about how to respond and situations, and isolated, them anita survived the moment. whether it's obeying police commands, whatever you do to survive the moment, i need you to go home for family. and sure michael talked about in terms of other police officers policing themselves, i

do have to say there was an incident in florida where a police officer pulled her partner or colleague off of a suspect, and that other police officer grabbed her by the neck and pusher up against the police car. so when i talk about young people, when i talk to students, i say that the challenge is not just about how we act, putting pressure on departments to change their culture. so i need you to go run for office, the lawyers, the advocates, so that we can make changes at every level of government, and all 18,000 criminal law enforcement agencies across the country. >> basil smikle, shermichael stevenson, my power panel, i think both of you guys for being here. and we will be right back. ight back. o hide from the world. for years, i thought my t.e.d was beyond help... ...but then i asked my doctor about tepezza. (vo) tepezza is the only medicine that treats t.e.d. at the source

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watching the katie phang show. i will be back tomorrow morning. chelsea is next -- velshi is next. >> good morning, i'm ali velshi. it saturday, january the 28. another morning in america reporting of video footage of a brutal attack at the hands, the fists, the feet, the batons of police officers, leading to unnecessary death of a black man. whatever's alleged crime, and there's no clarity around that issue at all, tyre nichols died after a brutal beating by police. there was no trial, no conviction by a jury of his peers,