weather and ukraine's famed muddy season. >> the mud caught them off guard in the first phase. a mobile attack is going to require favorable weather. they're not ready for it now. they have had difficulty stringing together offense under unified command, and ukraine has all the advantages, a defending nation. not an easy thing to do. it will take a lot more logistics and coordination than we have seen far. >> thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. when were you first made aware of these allegations of george santos? was it before it came out in the media, were you giving any indication something was amiss there?

>> i always had a few questions about it. >> reporter: the campaign, pretending to be your chief of staff. >> you know, i didn't know about that. it happened -- i was not notified about that until a later date. >> reporter: did you speak to him about it at all? >> yeah, i didn't know about it until a later date unfortunately. >> house speaker kevin mccarthy thought george santos' resume was questionable before revelations about his lies were discovered and there are so many lies. >> some of them. others, like the fact that his political person pretended to be mccarthy's chief of staff. >> there's so many. >> i'm sure he's not thrilled about that at all. >> as for santos, have we gone from ridiculous lies to russian ties? the bizarre saga takes another turn with new reporting that links him to the family of a sanctioned russian oligarch. >> hold on now. >> meanwhile, republicans remain focused on president biden. they're laser focused on biden

and his handling of classified documents. the question now shifts to the lack of visitor logs for his private home in delaware. plus, another new poll shows biden would easily beat trump in a hypothetical rematch of 2020. we'll show you those numbers as well. >> there's something very interesting about biden not doing as well against ron desantis. other polls are showing this. it's going to be fascinating. >> good morning, and welcome to "morning joe," it is tuesday, january 17th. along with joe, willie and me, we have nbc news national affairs analyst and executive editor of the recount, john heilemann. congressional investigations reporter for "the washington post," jackie alemany, and the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire is with us this morning. great group. >> so as you know, and we've done it for a very long time. john heilemann and i, we usually like to hike in japan the week

leading up to the summer solstice with a group of yule enthusiasts from burlington, vermont, the reason we like to do it, it's the best way to pick up the culture, right, and so the japanese have an old saying about ageing called wabasabi, it refers to the natural beauty of the ageing process and the appreciation of some of the imperfections of asians. >> yes, sure. >> i have a feeling right now they may be feeling differently about the beauty of the ageing process in tampa, florida, than perhaps osaka, japan. how is that for a wind up? it wasn't pretty last night. we'll tell you more about the hiking in a second, but, willie, i actually thought the game last night was going to be a good one, and man, what a terrible

way for tom brady to go out if in fact, it's his last game. >> you notice my laughter started when you said i like to go for hikes. before you even got to japan. there was that time you and i did the appalachian trail from top to bottom, and certainly had challenges along the way. >> he's hiking more now. >> i shot a bear. i shot a bear. >> stop it. >> with a handgun. >> willie, brady, go. >> that was an illegal kill. we don't need to talk about that. tom brady, last night, it was not pretty at all. so this was set up maybe hopefully game of the weekend, great game. tom brady, the king of the playoffs, hosting the dallas cowboys, it was dak prescott's night. it was 24-0. would have been 28 if not for four extra points. 31-14 was the final score but it just really was never that close. brady had to throw a lot because they were playing catch up.

he did throw for 350 yards. i think he threw 66 times or something like that. but a bad interception right there, and now jonathan lemire, brady, he'll be 46 years old on opening day last year. he did statistically have a good season, though his team wasn't great. had a losing record, they did win the division. was that the last time we're going to see tom brady on a football field? >> i don't think so, and i'll happily step into the role of tom brady defender, frequently. this was a bad buccaneers team. they got crushed. the defense didn't show up, and that end zone interception was rough on tom. he played reasonable well otherwise, as you said, he threw a lot of yards. and that's the encapsulation of the season. he had a pretty good year. not his best. but pretty good. there are questions, brady was asked about his future. he's taking it one day at a time. he's not making commitments now. a safe bet is that was his last game in tampa. that team is certainly on the

down swing. there's thought he might play one more year. where that is, raiders, rumors of 49ers, with brock purdy, that seems unlikely at the moment. there are whispers about a return to new england. i would be rooting for that. though it's unlikely. an ugly end for an unforgettable year for brady. he stepped back from a down year all around. >> i'm going to take the other side of it. i saw a lot of tampa games, and they were off. i mean, brady was off. it was a terrible team. he really didn't get into the rhythm of his passing game until maybe last week is when he looked like the brady of old. i thought that perhaps he was getting into the, you know, getting into his january -- regular january form, willie, but man, he didn't look good all year. his team didn't look good all year. it was weird that he couldn't connect with evans and other

receivers more than he did, like i said, until last week, and the other thing that was such a surprise last night is just how inconsistent dak and the cowboys have been. the vikings also had a good record. they have just looked so uneven through the year, and just looked horrible against washington's football team, whatever their name is this year. last week, i never expected the performance last night. quite a surprise. >> they looked good. the nfc has three teams of the four remaining in the nfc playoffs, and they're going to san francisco, a team that has won eleven games in a row. a great game there. dallas that's hot against 49ers. the hottest team in the league. the divisional match up, the giants and eagles. to your point about brady, of course he can play, though he's going to be 46 years old next season. do you want to go back and play in vegas, and not make the playoffs and help them build

something there at 46 years old. that's a question he has to ask himself. he did talk about it a little bit after the game about what his thought process will be about coming back next year. >> what is your process from here when you start think about what you want to do next? >> i'm going to go home and get a good night's sleep, as good as i can, and. >> it's been a lot of focus on this game. one day at a time, truly. >> be fun to see him playing again, joe, but i'm just not so sure he wants to play another season like the one he just played. >> you know, john heilemann, jim brown, the great running back for cleveland was the exception and not the rule. in fact, he's the only person i can think of that really went out on top. he quit when he was at his

greatest, and you know, oj simpson who was the greatest running back of the 70s, played too long, went to san francisco. baseball, hank aaron went back and played for the milwaukee brewers. they all played too long. it looked like brady had avoided that. looked like, unlike everybody else, he wasn't going to be taken out on a stretcher or damage his legacy, but he stayed around too long, and the question is he going to stay around too long for another year? >> yeah, you know, the person i think of in that context is willie mayes who stuck around and played with the new york mets long past arguably, maybe the greatest baseball player in the history of the game stuck around for a couple seasons too long, and memories that people have, you know, is not of the kid in his prime but kind of this guy kind of clinging to the sport and to the life. the great paradox of course is that the thing that makes these

guys great is their endless desire for competition, their drive, their obsessive-compulsive nature of the game is the thing that causes them often at the end to lose a sense of perspective and judgment, and, you know, for many of us, brady has, you know, he's not -- if we were to go out at the end of the season, he would be in the rare category of one of the pantheon players in a sport who went out somewhere near the top of his game. at least playing at a playoff level, right? i just got to, you know, especially given his age and what the injury risks are like. we have seen in the nfl, no one would begrudge tom brady hanging it up right now. the better part of valor he would do that. that's not what makes tom brady tom brady. we'll wait and see. >> whenever he leaves, i'm not going to ask lemire because he's so biassed on this. i always held out and said that

montana was the greatest quarterback, along with namath, a couple others. when brady won the super bowl with the bucs, that ended all debate. >> there used to be a conversation years ago about montana and others, but on the statistics alone, he is clearly the best quarterback of all time, probably the best football player of all time. for a little perspective, he's going to be 46 this summer. michael jordan when he made the comeback with the wizards, it's fun to watch him, but clearly he's lost a couple of steps, he was 38, 39, 40 years old, and we're talking about the nfl, so this is 20 some years in the league. if he hangs it up, he will do it as the greatest who ever played. we're going to get to the very latest on president joe biden and the mishandling of classified documents. but first, new polling showing president joe biden defeating former president donald trump in a hypothetical rematch of the 2020 election. in a new survey from data

company wpa intelligence, 49% of likely voters if asked to choose between biden and trump in the upcoming 2024 election, they would vote for biden. 41% meanwhile say they would support trump. when biden is put up against another likely 2024 republican contender, florida governor ron desantis, the latter comes out on top. in that poll, 45% say they would back desantis while 42% say they would vote for biden. so far trump is the only one of the three to officially announce for a 2024 run, though sources say biden is expected to announce in the coming months. interesting that beats trump but desantis is sort of a different games. >> in a different category, and john heilemann, a lot of these random polls have been taken showing that biden usually edges out donald trump, but you talk

to democrats, rank and file democrats, you talk to contributors, you talk to the party members, they're a lot more concerned about a ron desantis than a donald trump. they think that joe biden can beat donald trump. they've got the play book. they know where trump is weak. you know, but you just -- let's talk about -- i always talk about the atlanta suburbs, not just the northern suburbs but the southern suburbs of atlanta. those are areas donald trump will never get back. those are also areas ron desantis could roll up good numbers with. this is not even a close call. republicans have to know this, which makes you wonder why in the world they would consider putting up a nominee that was sure to lose the suburbs. >> i don't think you have to get to the question of what ron desantis can or can't do. i don't think you have to get to the question of what any of the other republican potential nominees can or can't do. we just have no idea what ron

desantis is going to perform like on the national stage. we have no idea what any of these people are going to perform like as presidential candidates. here's the one thing that's the most known quantity in american politics is donald trump. we know everything we need to know about donald trump and miz political strengths and weaknesses. i'm not talking about the personality, the threat to democracy, the pathological lying. we know where trump can perform and can't perform. what he can and can't do, what his ceiling and floor are as a presidential candidate, and joe, this is the thing. there's no republican who's paid attention to his run in '16, his run in '20 and his performance around the years that doesn't know what baggage donald trump has and what the baggage is he can't shed. there are voters he'll never get. places he will never be competitive. there's so many now, there's no imaginable world in which donald trump could ever win a popular

majority in america in the american electorate. the needle he needs to thread in the electoral college has gotten narrower and narrower. he is a power house within the republican party still, yet on the national level, running head to head, presidential contest, a general election, he's getting close to -- not unelectable yet but the deficits he carries into the race are huge and well known and specified, if the republican party were a rational body with a single mind there's no world in which he would be the nominee. that of course is not the way our politics work. there are tens of millions of people in the republican party who don't see this and would vote for donald trump to be the nominee and president again, and that's the conundrum they face. >> there's a lot of unknown about ron desantis, and republicans think a national vetting may not go well. the more voters get to know him,

less they would like him. and nikki haley might be the first to take the plunge in a few weeks, more republicans jump in and make the field better, that's probably better for donald trump who has without question the probably best from floor and ceiling in terms of his report. in terms of the white house's perspective think donald trump will be the nominee. that's the race they're preparing for, the race they like. polls like this, they'll win that one again. they like their chances in a rematch. it gets harder to predict if it's somebody else. they think trump is the guy. they're preparing as such and we should expect president biden to announce his reelection bid likely within the next couple of months. unclear if this matter about the classified documents night delay that timetable. >> as you know, the white house says we beat him once, we're happy to beat him again, and they believe he's weakened since

they ran against him last time. that's looking into the future. this is the here and now for the white house. a push by republican lawmakers to investigate president biden's mishandling of classified documents has hit a bit of a snag one day after the chairman of the house oversight committee requested visitor logs from the president's private home in delaware. the white house said yesterday no such records exist. in a statement, the white house counsel's office responded to the letter sent by house oversight chairman james comer writing in part, like every president across decades of modern history, his personal residence is personal. the secret service echoed the white house response yesterday with a statement of its own writing quote we do not independently maintain our own visitor logs because it is a private residence. that's from the secret service. but chairman comer did express skepticism over the claim from the secret service saying this

is another example of the inconsistencies he says between biden and trump investigations. >> you would assume that the secret service would vet people that would be allowed on the premise of the dwelling for the president of the united states, so, you know, there are other areas we're going to look. i'm sure all the records have either been destroyed or never existed to begin with, but at any rate, this is very concerning. we believe that this family could be compromised because of the millions of dollars that they've received from our add adversaries around the world, particularly from china, and the fact that they possess documents from multiple locations all over town. >> i know the white house tried to say it was all cleared up on thursday. now we find there's more documents. i think there's a lot of questions that continue to raise and we want to get all the

information possible. >> it is true over history that private residences have been private, and there are no visitor logs. mar-a-lago is different, and trump tower is different because those are corporate entities in some ways. this is a story that republicans who had promised lots of oversight of the biden administration didn't even see coming. this is one that fell into their lap in the last couple of weeks. is this the focus of their oversight now? >> it seems so at the moment. this has pushed aside a lot of talks of other investigations that james comer had been touting for nearly a year now in advance of a potential gop majority from impeaching alejandro mayorkas to investigating hunter biden. those are still on the back burner and going to be a priority for house republicans, and they're going to have to work out some jurisdiction issues but remember, james comer is the same republican who said he was not going to look into the department of justice's investigation into their criminal investigation into trump's mishandling of

classified documents and they completely swept that under the rug. now this is a political gift that has been handed to them, and you're going to see republicans trying to milk this for all its worth despite it being really a political headache versus trump's potential criminal headache. >> what's your sense, jackie, on the white house side of this? it has been a drip drip drip. we did find another, i was there looking, the way they have handled this, the slow drip of the story. do they view this as a problem for the president, perhaps not a legal problem but perhaps a political one? >> i think they view this as exactly that, a political headache. they are frustrated with the media coverage of this. at the end of the day, this is an investigation into sensitive documents. the white house can't get out there and preemptively disclosing what they're finding and doing. once something like this goes from biden's lawyers and the

national archives and referred to the department of justice, that makes it an ongoing investigation that no one is supposed to comment on. the optics don't look good. there are questions, why didn't biden disclose this earlier as it was happening around the november elections. again it's not common practice or standard practice for people to get out in front of a department of justice investigation and look like they're interfering in some way. they also are at this point just following the department of justice's instructions. they were instructed to continue to search for more documents. this is the process. as my archived source haves told me throughout the debacle for the past two weeks, the biden administration's handling of this is the textbook example of how you're supposed to handle this versus trump's mishandling of information which was a repeated refusal, false assurances to give hundreds of documents back to the national archives. >> and that has to be underlined again, joe, as we talk about the

apples and oranges. by the book is the way the white house handled this, a white house lawyer finds something in wilmington and hands it over to the department of justice to the national archives whereas it took donald trump's team a year, and ultimately, the fbi had to take some of those documents to get them back. >> and just really quickly, the doj of course saying we need to get a handle on this, and kind of holding the white house a little bit at bay saying don't say anything, we want a complete scan, a review of what's going on, and that's wring the white house was in a difficult situation. they were following orders from the doj and appeared not to be transparent. >> the doj is not going to look kindly on anybody that is holding press conferences every day talking about -- >> perhaps exposing. >> talking about an ongoing investigation, so they're caught right now in the middle between

doing what they're supposed to do following the doj investigation. and what's in their own best political interests right now. they've kept their heads down, they're doing what's not in their best political interests but what they really in the long-term need to do. so, yes, john heilemann, we can talk about political problems versus legal problems. joe biden has right now from everything we know some political problems. donald trump from what we know and what we've seen has some legal problems. let's talk about the documents themselves, and talk about something the republicans, we mock the republicans for a lot of the their stupid investigations. let's talk about this. there's nothing stupid about saying we need to know what documents were in an unsecured garage in wilmington at a place where you didn't have visitor logs for people that were coming and going because it was a private residence.

that may all be true, and at the same time, if i'm on the intel committee and i'm a democrat or a republican, i want to get to the bottom of this. i want to know what documents, even if it wasn't the intention of the then vice president to have those documents there, i want to know what documents were at an unsecured location in wilmington in a garage, so i think both parties should be aggressively trying to figure that out along with the doj. >> 100%, and it does not behoove any democrats, progressives, liberals, pundits, anyone to be dismissive about the substance of this question. we don't know what the nature of the documents was in total. we don't know how they got there. joe biden may or may not know how they got there. he says he doesn't. we don't know. if we want to be taken seriously when we criticize what donald

trump did, even if they are not the same thing, even if what trump did and how he handled it was much worse, more serious documents, his handling horribly, if you want to be taken seriously as someone who criticizes donald trump because his treatment of top secret documents may have endangered national security, you have to be consistent and say on the merits of this, we can applaud that the biden administration has handled this well legally. we have condemned that they've handled it poorly on the communications. at the bottom of it, it's a substantiative question, these are classified documents, they shouldn't have been where they ended up. i think the president and his people would anxiety knowledge, they should not have ended up where they were. and whether there's any possibility the documents fell into the wrong hands. that's necessary for consistency in terms of how we see it, and it's necessary for national security in terms of just the mere fact of getting to the bottom of the issue. >> and here's the difference. the biden white house agrees

with you, completely. meanwhile, donald trump and mar-a-lago, they consider themselves to be raided and they held off the documents. and that's why you see republicans so muted. it may be why republicans appear to be more measured right now as they sfeek about this case with joe biden and the documents because they know every time they go after the seriousness of this, they are actually validating how serious it is what donald trump did purposefully. >> right. that's what you said last friday, and i think you were spot on with that, that the more aggressive republicans go after joe biden saying how horrible this is for national security, actually, the more they hurt donald trump. because they create the political space for the doj to press charges. we've got that to the side. we've got the political problem versus the legal problem to the side. i want to focus on what was in the garage, what was at the biden residence. let me ask you first of all,

jackie, what do we know in total about what was at the biden residence whether it was in a garage or somewhere else because that is far different than being in a locked closet at the university of pennsylvania at the biden center. far different, where people didn't have access to that document. what do we know about the documents that were in the garage or at the biden residence? >> yeah, what we know in total, including the penn biden documents and those found in the garage is around under 20 classified documents were found in total. i think there were around six found in the garage. some of them, classification level has been categorized as top secret, information that needs to be seen in a skiff and comportmentalized. i need to make the point, the

volume doesn't matter. what matters is the level of sensitivities. even if there's one stray top secret document that has gotten out of place, that could be a grave threat to national security. so even though there were over 300 documents that were ultimately very sensitive and retrieved from mar-a-lago versus this small handful, that correlation doesn't matter in terms of the distinction. what we know is these documents landed there because potentially when then vice president biden was leaving his office, his personal team sort of separated presidential records from personal, and in that mix, when the general services administration then took those boxes to the personal residence as they do in every presidency, some of that classified information was in the mix and accidentally taken. we don't know much more than that. we know that some o. documents that were pulled from penn biden

were related to foreign briefings. but we don't know much more about what exactly they were related to, whether they were nuclear codes, sources and methods or any more specific details really. >> what the white house is telling us joe and mika, they are indeed signaling. it was inadvertent, haphazard, it was a mistake, they put things in the wrong place. we don't know exactly what's in there. republicans are trying to spread whispers about what foreign nations may be there. the material contained in those documents. you know, we will find out in the days and weeks ahead, most likely, more of than contents. it should be noted on the idea of visitor logs. not only were visitor logs not released at mar-a-lago or bedminster or trump tower, the trump white house didn't release visitor logs breaking with decades of tradition.

>> and again, we understand about the republican hypocrisy, it's on full display here. those that have defended donald trump and the documents case really they've got no right to say anything on biden unless they're willing to say that the justice department's doing the right thing by conducting this investigation on both sides. again, i'm sure when we were at the end of this, if we have full transparency, things are going to look far different for joe biden than donald trump. right now, this is what we know. they need to conduct the investigations on both sides. it doesn't matter if there were one or six documents. if one document ended up in joe biden's garage. >> of a high level of concern and classification. >> and if it pertains to say china or another country, then

that's a real problem. we need to have the investigation, and democrats, like john heilemann said, democrats need to be concerned and work hard to get to the bottom of it. still ahead on "morning joe," the uk confirms its plan to send tanks to ukraine. it's part of a new push to convince other western nations to step up support for the war torn nation. will the u.s. follow suit? that's the question. we'll speak with the british foreign secretary straight ahead. plus live reporting from beijing on two important fronts, the new surge in covid, and china's declining population, its first drop since 1961. what it means for that country's status on the world stage. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. g "morning " we'll be right back.

save big during blendjets new years sale and crush your resolutions. the blendjet 2 portable blender gives you ice-crushing, big blender power on-the-go. throw in your favorite ingredients and blend up a delicious smoothie anytime, anywhere. blendjet 2 even cleans itself. just add water, a drop of soap, and blend. recharge quickly with any usb port. order now from blendjet.com and make 2023 your best year yet.

♪ this feels so right... ♪ adt systems now feature google products like the nest cam with floodlight, with intelligent alerts when a person or familiar face is detected. sam. sophie's not here tonight. so you have a home with no worries. brought to you by adt.

35 past the hour. president biden will travel to california on thursday to visit the areas that have been hit hard by recent devastating storms. biden will meet with first responders as well as state and local officials to survey damage and recovery efforts. the golden state is bracing for a final round of storms before dry weather will come later this week. we'll get a live report from california in the fourth hour of "morning joe." a losing republican candidate for the new mexico state house has been arrested in connection with a string of shootings at the homes of democratic leaders. solomon pena is accused of paying four men to shoot at the homes of two county commissioners and two state legislatures. in november pena lost a state house race. pena alleged election fraud and took his case to lawmakers some

of whose homes were targeted. no one was injured in the shootings. and ohio state senator matt dolan plans to throw his hat into the ring for u.s. senator again. he lost the republican primary to j.d. vance last year. he's expected to announce this week his candidacy for the 2024 race where this time he'll try to unseat democratic incumbent sherrod brown, according to a voice mail dolan left for an ohio gop official. he will most likely be the first gop candidate to officially declare. and coming up, a very close call on the runway at jfk airport in new york. after an american airlines plane crossed about a thousand feet ahead of a delta flight about to depart. we'll have the latest in the investigation launched into the wrong turn that led to a near miss. we'll be right back. rn that led miss

we'll be right back. for adults with generalized myasthenia gravis who are positive for acetylcholine receptor antibodies, it may feel like the world is moving without you. but the picture is changing, with vyvgart. in a clinical trial, participants achieved improved daily abilities with vyvgart added to their current treatment. and vyvgart helped clinical trial participants achieve reduced muscle weakness. vyvgart may increase the risk of infection. in a clinical study, the most common infections were urinary tract and respiratory tract infections. tell your doctor if you have a history of infections or if you have symptoms of an infection. vyvgart can cause allergic reactions.

the most common side effects include respiratory tract infection, headache, and urinary tract infection. picture your life in motion with vyvgart. a treatment designed using a fragment of an antibody. ask your neurologist if vyvgart could be right for you.

a live picture of the white house at 6:41 in the morning here in washington, adding to the mountain of controversy surrounding new york congressman george santos. a new report from the "washington post" alleges the embattled lawmaker has significant ties to the family of a sanctioned russian oligarch. according to the post, andrew intrader and his wife each gave the maximum $5,800 to santos' main campaign committee and tens of thousands of dollars more

since 2020. cousin is russian billionaire victor vesselberg who has been sanctioned by the u.s. government for his role in the russian energy industry. the paper continues that the evidence suggests santos may have had a business relationship, as santos was entering politics in 2020. it shows according to the s.e.c. filing, intrater put hundreds of thousands of dollars into harbor city, accused by regulators of running a ponzi scheme. neither responded to requests for comments from the "washington post." attorneys who represented intrater did not respond. speaker mccarthy was asked again, and he'll be asked tomorrow about a new story about george santos, and he sort of brushes it aside, including the allegations that a member of santos' campaign impersonated someone from speaker mccarthy's office to raise money. he said, oh, i only heard about

that later. it is clear he's not going to step in and say this guy has to go because he needs his vote primarily. >> it's a delicate situation for mccarthy. with a slim majority he technically needs george santos in that majority to keep it. and if he calls for him to resign like a lot of his new york republican counter parts who have been calling for his resignation for a week now, there could be a special election and a democrat could very well win making mccarthy's path as a speaker even more complicated than it already is. that being said, i think republicans are also banking on sort of the process playing out itself. there's already been a bunch of ethics references for santos to be investigated. i think there's also a feeling that criminal investigation is looming large, especially as reporters continue to follow the money here. this report by my colleagues is

the latest in revelations with regards to santos' potentially illegal campaign finance handling. so, you know, mccarthy is going to continue to be asked questions but i'm not necessarily sure we're going to see him change his stance here, and republicans are following suit. >> joe, a lot of the details of course are comical, and we have been laughing about them, the double knee replacement as a result of his great volleyball career at baruch college. didn't go to baruch college, didn't play volleyball, probably didn't have a double knee replacement. who put him in office. >> you look, john heilemann, at "the washington post" reporting, obviously, real reasons for concern. but you brought up a great point in conversation we had yesterday, about the number of lies donald trump told during his presidency, quoting "the washington post" fact checker. i mean, this guy santos, we're

talking about double knee replacements, joking about all of his lies, but this guy is just, you know, he's like a mascot for trump republicans. it's hard for them to condemn him because he actually is -- >> mimicking. >> almost comical result in mascot form of much bigger lies that this party has told for six years, lies that have national security implications. lies that have impacted the united states supreme court. lies that have threatened american democracy. >> you know, somebody the other day said, you know, donald trump told a lot of lies when he was president. we know he's the most pathological and promi promiscu liar. "the washington post" kept counting. at the end of the term, we lost track of this at the end of

2020. they totalled up 30,573 lies, proven lies according to "the washington post" in donald trump's four years in office. i haven't done the math on how many lies per day that is. that's a lot of lies, right, and you think about that, the promiscuity and pathology of that kind of lying from the top of a political party. what does that give rise to, a party that became addicted to the big lie, the lie about the 2020 election. this is now a party that's built fundamentally. it is a house of lies, a party built on a foundation that's been completely eaten away by the dishonesty rotting from the top. of course we were going to get george santos in a party that embraced donald trump, the promiscuous liar that he was.

he is almost an inevitable by product of that. you say he's a mascot. i think that's right. he's like a mascot cartoon version of donald trump on steroids at the end of a dog leash or something. this is what happens when a party becomes wholly corrupted by a culture of lies and leadership that's been led by lies. i just think that it's not just -- it's metaphorical. it's a powerful metaphor for what's happening in the republican party. this is the kind of candidate that a party like that is going to recruit. it's kind of like, of course, george santos is shocking but not surprising. >> i know this will actually be shocking to viewers, younger viewers that can't remember a lot of political discourse before donald trump, but it used to be shocking to americans if somebody like let's say lindsey

graham called donald trump a threat to the united states of america, and said that he'd wreck republican party. the republican party would deserve being destroyed if they nominated donald trump to then turn out to be one of donald trump's biggest suck-ups. that would have been shocking before the age of trump. it would have been shocking to hear leaders in the senate saying that because of tradition there was no way they could appoint, they could support the appointment of a supreme court justice in the final year of a president's term only to turn around a few years later and do just that. that would have been shocking in the past. it's not shocking now because as john heilemann said, 30,537 lies later, i believe is the number he said from the "washington post" over donald trump's years, it's not so shocking.

something like this people will laugh at, but they're not shocked at all the lies coming from the republican party, and this was something new to american politics that a party would lie over and over and over again. to almost jonathan lemire, if you look at propagandists throughout history. let's use the classic example, the big lie out of nazi germany, the fire hose of falsehoods coming from the soviet union, the thing that at least i learned because we had not been exposed to it in america like we were during the age of trump is a lot of times the lies are inconsistent and they're not said for you to believe each lie. they're said in repetition over and over again in a thousand

different directions with conspiracy theories and a lot of other lunacy to numb the listener. to numb the population. so soon they can not only not distinguish between the truth and a lie, but they just stop trying. and so they'll cling on to the big lie. you wrote a book all about the big lie. talk about how -- talk about santos, trump's 30,000 plus lies, the big lie and how it all feeds in together for this trump republican party? >> yeah, the power of repetition is indeed a key part of this, joe, and that's something we saw from donald trump right away, back in 2015, 2016, he's a master brander, remember, he certainly was not shy about lying about his resume, about himself, about what he'll do in the oval office, et cetera. and night after night, he would say the same things over and over. and that continued while he was in office, and so much of it

ended up not being true. a deliberate untruth because as you say, trying to confuse the viewer, confuse the listener. it's the strategy that he and his team took during the mueller investigation. they would just throw things up against the wall to try to muddy the picture, to try to confuse people so they wouldn't get a clear sense of what's going on, that continued hitting its pinnacle during the 2020 election, which is what my book is about, and how he tried to lie and distort the truth by throwing so much out there, so much nonsense. and to your point, it wasn't so much that he wanted the people to hear it to believe one particular lie. there would be so many lies, they couldn't figure out what the truth was and they would dismiss all of it. none of this could be true, and they would rely on their favorite conservative talk show host or media site, whatever it might be, because they gave up trying to figure out what was true, and we're seeing that now here with santos, at least so far, not as sinister of an

effect but just lies, seemingly a natural evolution for a republican party and a political environment that donald trump created. >> and willie geist, what's the jackpot for those who lie repeatedly, when they hear voters not being able to distinguish between the truth and the lie. going to chinese cults who run web sites, and saying, well, i don't read the news anymore because i don't know what to believe, and the jackpot is when they say, well, everybody lies. so donald trump doesn't lie more than any other politician or this santos guy, he's only doing what -- no, that is a lie in and of itself, but that is the goal of propagandists like donald trump or people that have run fascist governments or communist governments, it's lie repeatedly. numb the populous, and have them

just give up. and that's what i guess i hear that from friends that frustrate me the most. you know what, i don't read the newspapers anymore. i can't look at the ap or if you give them an ap story or whatever. i can't do that because i don't know what to believe anymore, oh, really, but you get your news from chinese religious cults. >> facebook. >> and from facebook postings that people post while they're sitting on the toilet and you're reading that and comparing that to news that comes out of a newsroom with 400 people sitting there trying to gather the news with editors, you know, looking over their shoulder nonstop, and if they do something wrong, if they report a lie knowingly, they're fired. but that's where too many of my friends are right now.

>> yeah, absolutely, and we hear that all the time from our friend, why aren't you covering this, what about that, i can't believe what you guys say or do anymore but in the case of george santos, we have actually heard republicans at least publicly as jackie knows, most would prefer he go away, publicly saying, oh, he made up some things on his resume, people do that all the time. kevin mccarthy, the speaker, has said a version of that, and it's a calculus by someone like santos who says i can put my head down and get away with this. i watched donald trump do it, i watched other people do it. say the lie, get what you need out of the deal, become elected united states member of congress, and hopefully it will go away. one of the differences is that donald trump never admits to his lies. george santos has said, yeah, i did make up a bunch of that stuff. i'm not going anywhere, and in an interview a few days ago said of himself that he was courageous for admitting that he had made some mistakes and courageous for coming out and talking about the fact that he had done that, and he wants to

move forward. but you like to think in our politics, in our culture, there is a line that has to be held that, you can't be george santos and become a member of the united states congress but donald trump and others have helped to sort of move that line or eliminate it all together where the lies don't matter and the people in charge, speaker mccarthy in this case, don't hold you to a line either. >> yeah, with george santos, there's no bar at this point. john heilemann -- >> let me ask you, john heilemann, really quickly, what are you working on today? >> joe, i have a packed afternoon. i'm working on our next scheduling and working out the logistics for our next hike in the japanese countryside so we can get a greater sense of wabisabi. >> yeah, of course. >> i have a question for jackie, actually. she's actually got work to do. >> this is work. this is work. you know, you get a summer

solstice hike wrong. i don't know about you, but it messes up for me the rest of the year. jackie, what are you working on today? >> investigations, i can't say anymore. subscribe to the "washington post." >> there you go. >> there's so many. >> john heilemann. >> it sounds so boring. >> and "the washington post's" jackie alemany. >> forest bathing, i don't know. >> thank you very much, both of you, for being on this morning. and still ahead on "morning joe," the biden document questions we need answered. "the washington post's" eugene robinson joins us with his new column. also ahead, the missouri state legislature is getting national attention for new rules that specifically target female lawmakers. claire mccaskill has a few thoughts on that, and she joins us ahead. we'll be right back. e joins us ahead we'll be right back.

♪ ♪ this... is a glimpse into the no-too-distant future of lincoln. ♪ ♪ it's what sanctuary could look like... feel like... sound like... even smell like. more on that soon. ♪ ♪ the best part? the prequel is pretty sweet too. ♪ ♪

when that car hit my motorcycle, the prequel is pretty sweet too. insurance wasn't fair. so i called the barnes firm, it was the best call i could've made. call the barnes firm now, and find out what your case could be worth. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million and i d d so my y quesonons coueouout hicacase.y y son, ♪ call one eight hundred, cacalledhehe bars s filion and i d d soit was the best call coueouout hii could've made. call the barnes firm aand find out what your case all ccould be worth.uld've made. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, january 17th. let's go right to a major story playing out in china where new data shows the country's abrupt pivot from its zero covid policy in early december unleashed a surge of infections which may have caused a spike in deaths. on saturday, beijing reported nearly 60,000 covid-related deaths since early december. the disclosure was the first time china has provided an official measure of the covid wave now sweeping the country. and represents a huge spike in the official death toll. >> let's bring in from beijing, foreign correspondent, janis mackey frayer. we have been talking about conspiracy theories and in the

united states, we heard early on, the chinese, they released covid to damage the united states, to hurt its economy, kill its people. couldn't have gotten it more wrong. this is a pandemic that just continues to haunt the chinese themselves. talk about the latest news and how it continues to frustrate china, and bring instability to the country. >> reporter: the agony of the pandemic has come full circle, back to china and tearing through this country at a rate not seen in many places. an epidemiologist at hong kong university told me yesterday that currently this variant has an r factor of 15 or 16. that means for every one person who is positive for covid, they infect 15 or 16 other people. and in the world's most populated country, that means a very intense covid wave. the figures that were released

on saturday came as a bit of a surprise. china had been criticized, even by the world health organization for not sharing enough data about covid deaths. so the total went from fewer than three dozen covid deaths because of the way that china defines or measures the death toll here, to 60,000 covid-related deaths. that's only at chinese hospitals. that doesn't include people who have died at nursing homes or care facilities. doesn't include people who have died at home. these are only lab confirmed cases. so it doesn't include people who have died over the past month who were never tested for covid. there is still the expectation that this is a sadly under reported number, and experts are still looking for data on hospitalizations, on the severity of the symptoms, on icu units. all of the sort of data that

experts elsewhere in the world need to track the pandemic, and of course the potential for new and dangerous variants. the real concern here right now is that while the infections have peaked in major cities like beijing, like in shanghai, there's still the second wave that expected in the countryside, and right now, we are seeing literally hundreds of millions of people traveling again because there are no zero covid restrictions, and it's the lunar new year holiday coming up this weekend. so literally hundreds of millions of people are on the move, taking the virus into rural areas, and within the next couple of weeks, it is going to be likely in every corner of this country. >> you know, janice, we've seen an almost systemic failure, well, actually, almost a complete systemic failure, if you look at china, you talked about this zero covid policy. you look at the vaccines that

aren't working effectively. you look at the fact that they're having to try to get medicines from the united states to help mitigate some of the worst impacts of covid, and along with an unusual number -- unusual social unrest throughout the country, and people that are there that we have been talking to just tell us it's just an absolute mess, top to bottom, when even compared to the united states. we thought we had problems here. they continue to struggle. they don't have good vaccines. they don't have good medicine. i got to ask, how could this have happened? how could this have been such a complete failure on china's part to handle this virus from the start? >> reporter: that is exactly the question so many people here are

asking. it goes from three years of this tight suffocating system of zero covid with mass testing and brutal lock downs and people separated from families to literally overnight the entire system being dismantled and in some cases collapsing. nobody was prepared. people were given no time to prepare. there were shortages of everything. ibuprofen, other fever drugs. hospital beds, we've seen the better part of five days in shanghai last week visiting hospitals, visiting funeral homes, and seeing the effect of what has happened and it's devastating. it's sad. the hospitals are jam packed and i'm not exaggerating, the hobbies, -- lobbies, stairwells are packed with people. all struggling to breathe, and

hospital staff are struggling to keep up with drugs and equipment. the problem now facing this system, which is already being hobbled by this wave is that it's going into the countryside where hospitals aren't as well resourced, where the population does tend to be older, and so there is real concern among experts here and elsewhere in the world that it will be a devastating second wave that will hit within a few weeks. outside experts figure there could be 1 million covid deaths here by spring. >> some more significant news coming out of china yesterday and that is the population, the country announced, dropped for the first time since 1961. in more than 60 years, and not an aberration, it seems. it looks like this is the trend going forward. 1961 was after three years of famine under mao's policies. what is this new statistic, and it's coming from the government, they are conceding to this

population drop of almost a million people last year. what does this signal for the country? >> reporter: it's not a surprise. they were expecting to have this moment arrive by 2025, so it's certainly been accelerated. what has happened over the last decade is that the birthrate has been declining. we have an increasingly ageing society, and people just aren't having babies anymore. it's the pendulum swinging the other way of the one child policy that used to limit families to having one child, that used to punish families for having more than one child. now what we've seen is a shift in sentiment where young couples are choosing not to have more than one child if they're going to have children at all. i've spoken to people over several months who say they just can't afford to have a second kid. it means having to get a bigger apartment. it means having to take time off work. it means having to pay for more education, and people just aren't in a position to do so.

the experts looking at this trend are saying that this is the result of an economy becoming richer and the birthrate declining. a pattern that we've seen in other places. the demographic bomb that's about to go off for china, though, is that as society continues to age, fewer people are having kids. it will reach a point where it will have a serious economic impact because tax revenues are going to be lower. the pension system isn't going to be fed the right way, and there will reach a point where there will be a shortage of viable workers here. so this is all on the horizon for china. they have tried several schemes to try and head this off. they were offering cash bonuses to families for having more kids, free tickets for the metro system, but nothing has seemed to work. >> all right. nbc's janis mackey frayer, thank you so much for your reporting.

we so greatly appreciate it. you know, willie, we talk all the time rightly about how messy democracy can be. you compare what's happened in the united states even with all of the anti-vaxxing nonsense, dangerous misinformation, the number of people who died that didn't need to die. you look at that, compare us, though, to china, and some other countries, and even in this messiness, you look at the vaccines, and i've said this for quite some time, the trump administration, they picked the right vaccines. better vaccines than europe, better vaccines than china. they picked the right vaccines. you look at that, you look at the biden administration being able to effectively implement policies that the trump administration just wouldn't implement. and you look at how we've gotten

through this. and figured it out, and again, a high number of deaths, it's tragic. but it was a pandemic. and you look at the mess that's still going on in china. and they have their own vaccines. they don't have medicine. the medicines that they need and you look. and this is another example of a free, messy democracy and a top down dictatorship. one doesn't work effectively in these type of crises, and the other, well, finds its way through. >> it does find its way through. even the biden administration will tell you operation warp speed was a success and critical to getting these vaccines, these effective vaccines into the arms of people so early at record pace for a vaccine. and meanwhile in china, we're three years into this now, and

you have the revolt in many ways that you see in the street among the people because they have literally in some cases been locked in their apartment buildings by the military. you cannot leave. the zero covid policy has been a disaster as janis just laid out well. you have other elements of the story, like the population decline, not necessarily related to covid here, but a country trending under authoritarian rule, again, in a much different direction than we are here in the united states because we are an open and free society. >> absolutely. >> and now to news on capitol hill, republicans continue to demand answers to questions swirling around president biden's mishandling of classified documents. one day after the chairman of the house oversight committee requested visitor logs from the president's private delaware home, where a number of those documents were found. the white house said yesterday that no such records exist. in a state, the white house

counsel's office responded to the letter sent by chairman james comer, writing in part quote like every president across decades of modern history, his personal residence is personal. on sunday, comer requested visitor logs from biden's wilmington home after learning that classified documents from biden's time as vice president had been found there. the secret service echoed the white house's response yesterday with a statement of its own writing quote, we don't independently maintain our own visitor logs because it's a private residence. >> and jonathan lemire, as you brought up, there aren't visitors logs at private residences from what we have seen as far as tradition goes. as you point out, the trump white house refused to release visitor logs even from the trump white house. >> and they had no problem with it. >> yeah, it is certainly tradition among, you know, presidents, they have their private residences.

no one is keeping track of who went in and out of joe biden's home in delaware or barack obama's home in chicago, george w. bush's ranch in waco, or donald trump's properties, mar-a-lago, bedminster, dural and so on. republicans are trying to make this an issue. it has been tradition for decades for white houses to release visitor logs. that's a bipartisan tradition. democrat asks republicans alike, and like so many bipartisan traditions came to an end under donald trump's white house. this visitor log argument is the latest red herring that republicans are trying to toss out there in order to attack president biden over this mishandling of classified documents, and more than that, trying to undermine the faith in the investigation. suggesting, again, whether it's the secret service, the department of justice, the attorney general merrick garland are playing favorites here when that of course is not the case, when we saw the special counsel appointed last week. let's get more context

around this with pulitzer prize winning columnist at "the washington post," eugene robinson and former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. good morning to you both. gene, your latest column, you write about which questions need to be answered. writing quote, from what we know so far president biden eets mishandling of classified documents was not nearly as egregious or potentially criminal as former president trump's. there are legitimate questions about what the president knew and when he knew it. there are obvious questions that need to be answered, chief among them is how sensitive the information in the documents might be and whether unauthorized persons could have had access to them. after the justice department went so far as to send the fbi to seize the documents that trump had taken to florida, why did biden and his aides not immediately make sure there were no classified material in his possession. are we sure there are no others. has anyone taken a flashlight into the attic. there's ample evidence that trump knowingly and willfully

absconded with classified documents, that he had criminal intent. i fear biden's own lapses as well as the drip by drip bay the story emerged, makes it less likely that trump will face justice. it shouldn't be that way. donald trump's case should be looked as just as biden's has with the same scrutiny. we've got special counsels on both. what more do you want to hear from this white house? they have gone out of their way to say we don't talk about ongoing investigations, that's not the way this works but what else should they be saying? >> they should sat some point, i think, be able to tell us that they have looked everywhere, under every bed in every attic, and we're sure there are no more documents out there. beyond that, there probably isn't a whole lot this white house can say. they can't get ahead of the justice department investigation. they can't tell us what was in

the classified documents because they're classified. that's a whole other issue, how much stuff the government clafs classifies in general, but they can make a more definitive statement about their search, their findings and put a lid on it in a way that they weren't able to do last week. now, let's keep it in perspective. this has lasted a week, right? i mean, they were talking about a week as opposed to in the case of donald trump, more than a year, where the federal government was desperately trying to get back 300 classified documents and a whole bunch of other documents that did not belong to trump that he willfully took and hid away so it is apples and originals. in the sort of grossest possible sense, obviously people are

going to say, when push comes to shove and when we know everything we can know about both cases, they're going to say, oh, they both had classified documents, why do you prosecute one and not the other. that's what republicans are going to say. >> but, you know, gene, what you're saying, and what i'm sure a lot of people in the white house are worried about, what we've asked questions about this morning has to do with the documents at the residence. and what are the documents at the residence, who had access to documents at the residence? of course republicans are talking about hunter biden. they're talking about his past lobbying efforts in china and ukraine and talking about, well, were there some documents there that had to do with that? we won't know the answer to that until the investigation is done. isn't that really where the main concern is right now is for the white house, at least, politically, and most likely not legally, at least politically, what documents were unsecured

along with the corvette at joe biden's garage in his residence? >> well, he loves that corvette, he takes really good care of that corvette but beyond that, yeah, i think that's the big -- from what we know, again, this has been a week, so there's a lot we don't know. from what we know, the documents that were in the penn biden center seem literally to have been locked away in a closet that nobody went anywhere near for some time. and, again, we don't know what was in them. could have been super super secret. could have been something that, you know, you could probably get off of wikipedia. we don't know. but, yeah, the documents in the private residence, you would think that's just a really less secure position. i'm curious as to -- so what is the deal with classified documents and presidential or

vice presidents, do they get to take them home? >> no. >> i didn't think so. if they should only be read in a skiff, you know. >> yes. >> and they have folders that have big red and yellow markings saying classified secret, you know, and how do you miss that? so again, a lot of questions, and it could be that the whole thing is a little more casual than we are led to believe, and that in and of itself could be a problem that spans multiple administrations. >> it's not. what was true for donald trump is true for joe biden. as far as the handling of classified documents. we have two cia directors that got in big trouble from his handling classified documents. we have a national security adviser that got in trouble for

mishandling classified documents. mika has a question for claire, claire will tell you when she saw classified documents, you went into a room, they closed it down. they had people in there. you didn't just go wandering in and out with classified documents. they're classified documents. they need to stay in government facilities that are specifically meant to protect classified documents. >> yes, and as we -- as of what we know now this document was discovered by lawyers that were going through joe biden's personal stuff, and found one and immediately notified authorities and the self-reporting is important because that's one of the main differences here. and i wonder, claire, if you want to comment on what joe said but also politically how this impacts joe biden moving forward making a decision to run. my instinct is as long as donald trump is even a speck on the radar to run for president or be a legitimate candidate for 2024, joe biden will be there to crush

him and when it comes to these documents, politically they cancel each other out, which happened before with another candidate, which we can talk about. but at the same time, there are huge differences here. and the difference is that donald trump took the documents and refused to give them back. >> those of us who understand that donald trump is a fraud and a liar are grasping tightly to those differences, and i get it. i get it that what donald trump did is totally different than what joe biden did. but as a prosecutor, i will tell you, we need to have a sober moment because when a jury is trying to figure out whether someone should be held criminally responsible, that's going to be in their head. let's not kid ourselves here. the easiest case for the special

counsel prosecutor to make against donald trump were the documents at mar-a-lago before this. and now it is no longer as easy. it is probably very difficult because the whataboutism is going to be rampant in that jury room. i think it's important for us to recognize. may not be fair. may not be right but that's the reality of where we are. and as to classified documents, until we know what was in these documents -- we've heard swirling about trump actually having nuclear secrets in the documents he had. we don't know what what are in the documents, but i will tell you this from experience. they over classify. i remember giving up my phone, and giving up my apple watch to go in a skiff to look documents, and i remember looking at a document and going, i just read this in the "new york times" yesterday, so there are times -- i think that people who classify

always err on over classification. that may explain why some of these have been handled so carelessly because there was a sense, well, this really isn't stuff that's going to jeopardize the country. we don't know if all of trump's documents were that. if they're serious top secret stuff in there. that's a horse of a different color. until we know that, i think we all need to be really cold eyed about this and realize this is not good news for holding donald trump criminally liable for all of his misdeeds, including the documents at mar-a-lago. >> and the white house is trying to be careful, saying that they're listening to what the doj is instructing them to do, which is why they were limited with information, which caused a lot of stress and questions about transparency, but, joe, even to clarify what claire just said, she talked about the difference between what joe

biden did and what trump did. we don't know who did this on joe biden's side. we don't know who put the documents there. we do know on the trump side that trump knowingly obstructed returning documents that were taken. >> again, though, there are two investigations going on. let's let the investigations play out. i personally think but it's just speculation because we're all just speculating right now, transparency, full transparency at the end of the day, probably helps joe biden, probably hurts donald trump, in fact, i'm fairly confident in that, but i don't know for sure and nobody here knows for sure until those investigations are completed. claire, i want to go back to something you said. i agree. we don't know what's going to happen until the investigations run their course, and you are right that often you have

information that's over classified. that being said, when you went in and you looked at classified information that you had read in the "new york times" five minutes earlier, that didn't mean you took the classified folder out of there or that you would have taken it out of there, and i guess that's the thing that i'm so curious about is, again, with biden, most likely, we don't know, but most likely, knowing how these things work, it was, you know, staff that was probably packing folders, and you just do wonder how folders marked classified get out of areas where the classified documents are supposed to stay. >> well, i think probably for presidents and vice presidents, they sometimes have the opportunity to look at documents that are brought to them by people. and clearly what has occurred here is documents have been brought to them in their offices by people that have had some kind of classification on it. you don't know whether it's top

secret or classified or whatever, and for whatever reason, those have been left there. and then they have not been returned as they should have been in a timely way so that they could be secured. i get how it might have happened. it doesn't mean it should have happened. people were being careless. there's a difference between being careless and being purposeful in terms of hiding documents, lying about documents, refusing to give up documents, making up that you have declassified them in your brain for some kind of magical moment. that's a lot different. i just don't know if it's enough different to get it across the finish line in a criminal prosecution when the burden of proof is so high. >> yeah, and of course the difference is of course, and you talked about this also, mika, the willful intent to obstruct an investigation by actually lying to the fbi, lying to the department of justice on whether

donald trump had anymore documents or not. >> that will be the bottom line. we'll be following this as it goes along. new york city mayor eric adams is criticizing the federal government's response to the surge of migrants crossing the southern border. during a visit to el paso, texas, on sunday, the mayor said quote, we expect more from our national leaders and warned that new york city cannot take anymore asylum seekers, saying the city has been overwhelmed. mayor adams emphasized the need between coordinator nation in local and federal governments. the united states is seeing higher trends of alcohol related liver disease among young people. a 2018 study found that between 2009 and 2016, deaths attributed to alcohol related cirrhosis had been consistently rising. the sharpest increase was among those in the 25 to 34 age group.

the cdc says heavy drinking for men is 15 drinks or more a week. wow, that's a lot. and for women, it's eight drinks or more. several celebrities have tested positive for covid-19 after the golden globes last week. at least four attendees including jamie lee curtis and michelle pfeiffer have announced they have tested positive for covid since the show. deadline reports that the critics choice awards which was held on sunday required all attendees to submit a negative covid test before entering the venue. we'll be following that as well. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on search and rescue efforts in the ukrainian city of dnipro following russia's missile strike on an apartment complex over the weekend. a look at the u.s. military's new expanded combat training of ukrainian forces underway in germany right now. also ahead, british foreign

secretary james cleverly joins us ahead of today's meeting with his u.s. counter part kicking off a north american campaign to bolster allies support for ukraine. a beautiful shot of capitol hill as we go to break. pink skies. you're watching "morning joe." >> it's gorgeous. >> we'll be right back. ng joe." >> it's gorgeous. >> we'll be right back

i look back with great satisfaction on my 32 years of active duty. i understand the veteran mentality. these are people who have served, they'e been in leadership positions, they're willing to put their life on the line if necessary and they come to us and they say, "i need some financial help at this point in time." they're not looking for a hand out,

they're looking for a little hand up. my team at newday usa is going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that veteran gets that loan. hey, man. you could save hundreds for safe driving with liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance... so you only pay for what you need! whoo! we gotta go again. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty liberty liberty♪ ♪liberty♪ back at 7:33 here in washington. the death toll continues to rise in ukraine following russia's missile strike on an apartment complex on saturday. last night, ukrainian president zelenskyy confirmed at least 40 civilians including three children were killed in the building in dnipro was hit. search and rescue is focusing on recovery as bodies continue to

be pulled from the rubble. a deputy for zelenskyy's efforts say they will not cease the rescue efforts until the bodies of everyone killed have been found. as of yesterday afternoon, 34 ukrainian civilians remained missing. the united states has begun training troops in germany. mark milley visited the training area to oversee some of the initial exercises that began on sunday. about 500 ukrainian soldiers are being trained on what is known as combined arms warfare, which layers the use of artillery and combat vehicles. at the same time, ukrainian soldiers have arrived state side in oklahoma. there they will focus on patriot air defense training taught by the same instructors who teach both american soldiers and european allies. the training in the u.s. expected to take several months. meanwhile today u.s. secretary of state antony blinken will meet with his british counter part, foreign secretary james cleverly to discuss the two countries

cooperation on the world stage with an emphasis on the war in ukraine. british foreign secretary cleverly joins us in washington. welcome to america, sir. good to have you with us. >> good to be here. >> tell us about your mission. the uk announced 14 challenger 2 battle tanks will be sent to the ukrainian military for use on the field of battle what is your message to our secretary of state and as you travel up to canada as well. what are you here to accomplish? >> we announced yesterday just as i was flying from london to washington that we'll be donating main battle tanks, as well as heavy artillery and a couple other armored vehicles, hundreds of thousands of artillery shells, millions of rounds of small arms ammunition. we're making the statement clear to moscow and putin, we are in it for the long hall. we have the strategic endurance to support ukraine as it defends itself against aggression.

i'm here to coordinate with the united states of america who have been the single biggest donor of money and equipment to help the ukrainians. this is about working with one of our closest allies in the world. this is about making sure that we do is fully integrated. our training package with your training package, and it's about making sure that collectively we defend freedom, territorial integrity, and stand up against the kind of aggression and brutality we're seeing in ukraine. >> we're coming up on a year on february 24th, a year of this war, russia's war on ukraine. the united states as you said has continued its support, military, humanitarian, but there have been some voices on the capitol hill, the building behind you have said, maybe we need to pull back a little bit. it's been a full year of using taxpayer money. how do you articulate a year to an american audience, why this effort, why it's so important to continue to support ukraine? >> well, look, we got to understand that what is happening here is being viewed

right across the world. and we have a choice about what message we send. are we sending the message that actually the liberal west, democracies like ours will lose patience after 12, 18 months, that we can waited out by aggressors and dictators, because if that's the message that we send to the world, we are inviting further violence, further aggression, further invasions. the message that we need to send is that we are in it for the long haul, these are values that we defend, that we regard as absolute foundation stones to our safety and prosperity, and that we will stick with it until the job is done, and that means making sure we support the ukrainians as they defend themselves. because what's at stake is not just the lives of the ukrainian people. what's at stake are the foundations and principles that your democracy, my democracy, western democracies are built upon. that's what's at stake, and that's why we have to make sure we stick with it. >> mr. cleverly, what more can

the united states, britain, the western world, the alliance do to avoid those tragic scenes like the ones we've seen this weekend, that apartment building devastated, the death toll up i believe to 44 now. and there's still 20 people missing. it seems that the russians can lob these dumb bombs and missiles toward ukrainian cities as they wish, and what can we do to stop that? >> eugene, you make a really important point and i think your viewers need to understand that this is a demonstration of weakness rather than strength. the ukrainians have fought the russians back on the line of contact in the east and the south of ukraine, and so what vladimir putin is doing in a vicious, petulant way is targeting civilian

infrastructure, civilian cities with cruise missiles and ballistic missiles. very very hard to defend against. that's why the patriot missile systems are incredibly important, and what we need to do, what we have been doing in the uk, the u.s. and others is giving ukraine the ability to defend itself against those air attacks but also to push back against the land invasion. and this year will be a critical year. and we need to make sure they succeed. we have promised to back them until this war is successfully brought to a conclusion, and the message i think vladimir putin should take is that we're going to back these guys until they win, and the right thing for him to do is not to put anymore young russian soldiers into the meat grinder that this war has become, but to recognize that we're going to back them until they win, and therefore he

should recognize this war needs to come to a swift conclusion. that's how we save lives and to the point that you were making, that's how we save money, and as they bring this to a conclusion quickly, will be the right thing to do. >> is there anything, mr. secretary, about vladimir putin that tells you he's going to receive the message and say you know what, the united states and united kingdom are going to win this war. it's over, i thought i would be in kyiv in two weeks, and we would be greeted as liberators, he was wrong about that, how do you see this ending with a man like vladimir putin on the other side of the conversation? >> you make a really good point, and throughout this conflict and ahead of this conflict he has acted in a very thoughtless way. we haven't seen the kind of military or political analysis

that you would expect from a successful world leader. he's demonstrated a naivety. he's demonstrated a level of aggression, and a massive failure of planning. but we got to hope that he gets the message loud and clear that there is only one outcome. we have made it clear, there's only one outcome to the conflict, that is that ukrainians will successfully retake their own country, and that the sooner that happens, the better. and that's better for him, better for the russian lines that will be lost, and of course, it will help save ukrainian lives and that message, you know, if we have to shout it, we'll shout it. he's going to have to hear it. that is the only way this comes to a conclusion. >> mr. secretary, jonathan lemire has a question for you from new york. john. >> mr. secretary, good morning, you just spoke about the importance of keeping this alliance together. certainly a mild winter in europe helping in terms of keeping energy costs down, and keeping the bonds tight. my question to you, though is how do you try to expand that

nations actively coming to ukraine's aid. so much of the world is sitting on the sidelines and big powers like china and india are still offering at least some economic support to putin's war machine. >> well, i mean, firstly i would like to say a huge thank you to those countries around the world who have provided support to ukraine, whether it be in the way the u.s. has done through military equipment and money or through the united nations. we need to make the case to the other parts of the world about what's at stake here, and it's about the rule of law, about the u.n. charter, about territorial integrity, and these are principles which should be of concern to every capital city in the world, whether they be in europe, you know, asia pacific or the southern hemisphere. this is what we're defending. this is what is at stake. we'll keep making the case. i know secretary blinken does the same on our international travels.

and we need to demonstrate to the world particularly those parts of the world who are suffering from food insecurity as a direct result of russia's aggression, you know, people in africa, southern hemisphere going hungry because of putin's actions. we need to let them know that bringing this war to a successful and speedy conclusion will be in their interest as well. and i know that's what tony blinken does when he travels, what i do when i travel and we're going to continue to make that case to the rest of the world. this is not just a european conflict. this is a conflict of global significance. >> and you say you and the west will be with ukraine until the end. british foreign secretary james cleverly, on his way to meet with antony blinken. thanks for stopping through on your way. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. while president biden has been praised largely for his leadership in ukraine, the u.s. withdrawal from afghanistan of course has received much lower marks. our next guest digs into that with a new book titled "the fight of his life inside joe

biden's white house," author chris whipple joins us next on "morning joe." chris whipple joins us next on "morning joe." nicorette knows quitting smoking is freaking hard. you get advice like... try hypnosis... or, quit cold turkey. are you kidding me? instead, start small with nicorette, which will lead to something big.

48 past the hour. a beautiful shot of the st. louis arch for you this morning. the state legislature in missouri is getting a lot of attention for its new dress code. last week, missouri's republican-led state house passed a stricter dress code. but only for female members of the chamber, requiring them to wear jackets. the new rule was proposed by

republican anne kelly who said she wanted it to mirror the dress code for male members, but it appears the proposal was really in response to women wearing materials like sequins and velveteen on the house floor. the memory outraged some democratic members who felt the outrage was inappropriate. >> you know what it feels like to have men in the room looking at your top deciding if your top is appropriate or not. is dana checking our tags if it's a knit blend or polyester, does silk count. this is ridiculous. >> you're right, it is ridiculous. >> why are you doing it? >> that we even have to talk about it on the i agree. why did you bring it up? >> it is absolutely ridiculous. you would think -- you would think -- >> you tell me. >> you would think that all you

would have to do is say, dress professionally and women could handle it. you would think elected officials could handle that. >> you would think but -- we are walking around in sequin so what is appropriate? why do you get to decide? >> you need to get over the sequin. >> there are very serious things in this rule package i think we should debate but instead we fight for a women's right to choose something and this is how she covers herself and the interpretation of someone with no background in fashion because it is -- this is not a shot. it is inappropriate to wear sequin before 5:00. i can't wear a sweater if it has too many sweaters. i spent $1,200 on a suit and i can't wear it in the people's house because someone told me

it's inappropriate. >> wow. after heated debate the state house revised its dress code rules allowing women to wear a cardigan sweater. wow. i will let you take it from here. you tweeted your take. >> well, listen. those of us who live in missouri unfortunately are not surprised by this. this legislation is dominated by republicans. we are not talking about a 50-50 split. veto proof majorities in both houses of republicans and most of them give lift to the word extreme. the republicans. this is a legislation in the heart of the pandemic when missourians worried about health care and you know what this legislature was doing? legalizing brass knuckles.

>> oh my gosh. >> that is legislature that's government mandating birth for rape victims. why should it surprise anyone that they feel it's appropriate to tell women elected officials how to dress on the house floor? sleeveless dresses were not allowed in the senate. i was presiding in a dress i had worn to the funeral and told somehow that was not okay by somebody working the floor. the women said this is stupid. republican women and democratic women said this is stupid. we won't have that rule and of course it was changed. missouri is going back wards saying -- as i sat in my twitter feed marjory taylor greene

should stay out of missouri and she is not welcome to bear arms in the house of missouri. by the way, our state has a lot of needs. >> right. >> losing population. our job growth has been very lackadaisical compared to other states. this is not a state with anything to pound their breast about and crow that we are doing well in public education or doing well in infrastructure. there's a lot of things they should be doing but telling women to wear a jacket or a cardigan should not be on the list. >> i will agree with you on this one. this is just ridic. we'll follow it. this morning, a revealing look inside the biden administration. author chris whipple is out with a new book entitled "the fight

of his life." taking readers behind the scenes of president biden's first two years in office. among the revelations president biden felt let down by the briefers regarding the withdrawal from afghanistan. author chris whipple is also an emmy awarding documentary filmmaker. thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you. >> among the revelations in this book is how a high ranking trump administration official worked with the transition team. what was the drama surrounding that? >> i spent two years talking to almost all of joe biden's inner circle and there's more drama behind the scenes than anybody knew and in the transition it was a remarkable story not told before. it really was closer than anybody thought. it came down to one deputy chief

of staff in the trump white house who carried out an operation keeping the wheels of the transition turning under trump's nose and it is a terrific story. >> wow. another revelation in the book is about joe manchin and how the orchestration of joe biden's legislative agenda and what role coordinating joe manchin played in this. >> this was portrayed -- this was the inflation reduction act which really revived president biden's presidency in the second year. it was portrayed as an out of left field operation. the truth it was orchestrated by the biden white house. they worked very closely with manchin and schumer and in it on all the details so it's an

example of how i really see this as a tale of two presidencies. the first year defined by the afghanistan fiasco and then joe biden facing down vladimir putin and ukraine and led to legislative successes capped of by the inflation reduction act and as a result joe biden heads into the third year with the wind at his back. >> so this one i'm very curious about building on "the washington post" and brilliant reporters there reporting and book written about the secret service and you write about how joe biden doesn't trust his detail and can't speak comfortably around them? >> joe biden's relationship with some of his secret service detail is fraught. i think it's really alarming. biden had a very good

relationship with his secret service detail as vice president and during the the transition. when he became president it became a much larger group. some he felt maga sympathizers. maybe that's not surprising considering that law enforcement members are often deeply conservative but the president should be defended by the secret service and keep his secrets and biden wasn't sure that would be the case and it's i think something that's very troubling. >> chris, congrats on the book. >> thank you. >> new headlines come from as you hinted the botched withdrawal from afghanistan which was a low watermark for the administration and took them some months to come out of. tell us what you found. >> among other things there was drama behind the scenes during the botched evacuation.

tony blinken told me that they relied on a flawed intelligence assessment of 18 months to do that. this was news to bill burns when i talked to him. he said we were clear-eyed about the fragility of the afghan armed forces and thought it could collapse quickly. there's finger pointing. >> you mentioned things turn around with the leadership of ukraine and based on intelligence that was correct. >> they knew he was going in. february 24, 2022, was the turning point of the presidency in my view. joe biden uniquely qualified to face down putin and defend ukraine. i tell the untold story of how kamala harris met with zelenskyy

on the eve of the invasion and said not only are they coming for ukraine but you and your family personally. he was still skeptical. she turned to aide leaving that meeting she said i wonder if that's the last time we see him alive. >> chris, this is gene robinson. what have you learned about the relationship between president biden and vice president harris? the relations can be complicated and sometimes be extremely fruitful. >> it's a fascinating, complicated relationship as you suggested. during the early days there's no question about it that joe biden felt a real bond with her. they were thrown together by covid. spent a lot of times in meetings together. biden valued the input and he gay her important national security responsibilities but as

things got tough for her particularly after the trip to guatemala given the northern triangle, voting rights and got back to biden that allies -- well, complaining publicly that this was mission impossible. the portfolio is unfair. setting her up for failure and annoyed joe biden hearing that the second gentleman doug imhoff complaining to people around town. it's a complicated relationship. >> all right. the new book is "the fight of his life." chris whipple, thank you so much for sharing the book with us. >> thank you. >> eugene, thank you. great to have you on as always. we start with the a littlest comments on president biden's classified documents from the two leaders in the house.

>> i want to collect more data. are there more documents out there? >> i have full confidence in president biden. this appears to be not intentional. there's a special counsel appointed and my expectation that they will simply follow the facts. apply the law. present that information and we should take it from there. >> this comes as we learn more about how president biden is reacting behind closed doors to the growing controversy. nbc's monodaal bah has the story. >> reporter: how do you think

the classified documents got into the boxes? privately expressing frustration according to three sources familiar with the matter as the white house revealed this weekend additional pages of class if ied documents discovered inside the president's delaware home. the total number of classified records recovered is unclear. >> including inside the garage. none of those sites are approved to stove sensitive government material. the white house facing criticism about a lack of transparency. the first documents discovered by biden attorneys a week before the midterms. >> the truth is that they suppressed the information before the election to not have

impact during the election. the stench of hypocrisy from the administration is making american people sick. >> reporter: the president's personal attorney insisting they cannot release certain details while it is ongoing. the white house is pledged to cooperate with the special counsel. noticing difference in response and volume to the mar-a-lago estate but some democrats saying national security may have been jeopardized by where mr. biden was storing the documents. >> i don't think we can exclude the possibility without knowing more of the facts. >> nbc's monica alba with that report. thoughts? >> oh my god. >> many. >> the comments are shameless. hypocrisy? you have republicans ignoring the fact that donald trump willfully seized documents,

willfully took them from the white house, willfully told people time and again they were his documents, believed in the white house his own aides tell us that he believed they were his documents. they were his letters. it was his information. he was constantly tearing up documents. flushing them down the toilet. takes the documents down -- >> did he eat some? >> tim scott miss this part? did the republicans miss this part where he takes them down to mar-a-lago for a year, the fbi, for a yaoer the doj, national archives trying to get top secret documents back. he continued fighting them. continued refusing. they finally had to do a legal search to get the documents.

they also signed a document sending them back to the fbi and doj swearing they returned all the classified documents. they didn't. they willfully obstructed the returning of these classified documents and republicans didn't go on fox news and talk about how horrible this was. >> they were not shocked. >> this is a stupid move by republicans to act like this is the worst thing to have happened and talk about hi performance sy. talk about dumb. when it's a republican telling us this is a nothing burger since last august. now concerned about classified documents again. what a joke! what a joke. i tell you, willie, james

carville went off last night talking about the what about-ism in the press. the press needs to cover the story but the warning is they don't turn this into whitewater or hillary clinton's emails where there's a singular obsession over months and months. in this case, you see republicans and you see tim scott talking about hypocrisy? suddenly he's concerned and other republicans are concerned about documents, classified documents when they have been telling us it's much adieu about nothing. >> not a priority. >> donald trump doing this is not a priority. joe biden doing it is the greatest priority. thank you, tim scott. we are just going to pick up what you said about americans,

can pick up on the stench of hypocrisy, and apply it to every single republican. >> you would be asphyxiated. >> not just that the republicans ignored the documents at mar-a-lago but aggressively defended. they said allegedly classified documents. and then others did dismiss it. marco rubio saying it is a storage issue. they tried to wish it away. they as former president trump obstructed for more than a year the national archives couldn't get the documents back. the fbi had to get a search warrant. we know this. we detailed this for a long time but republicans now believe they

are on to the scent of something and has to be balance. two totally different storys. appear it is biden case is absent the obstruction of the trump case but it's galling. not surprising. we know these people but they try to elevate the biden case to that of former president trump. >> terrific. >> when you have marco rubio, i think a senior member on the intel committee -- >> yes. >> same guy on the same intel committee in the past said that trump 2026 campaign was a serious counter intelligence threat to the united states government. i don't know what happened to him since then because now he is saying that donald trump seizing documents, lying to the fbi about the documents and lying to

the justice department, refusing to give the documents back, lying saying he has given the documents back, if you want to know how corrosive trumpism is for the republican party and why they are just not a serious political party anymore, you have the senior intelligence member on the intel committee for the republican party calling what donald trump did a quote storage issue. that tells you all you need to know about this party. >> they are now the oversight committee going after the fbi because they say the fbi was on a witch hunt to get the documents back from donald trump. let's bring in washington correspondent for "the new york times" michael schmidt. it is good to see you.

what's your assessment of where this story has gone? white house attorneys found more documents at the home in delaware. republicans are trying to elevate this to be what donald trump did at mar-a-lago. how big a problem is this for the white house and how do you view this as a contrast to what donald trump did? >> i think you guys laid it out pretty well how they're different examples. one person went to the government and said how can i get the classified documents back to you. the other put up a fight that got so extreme the fbi had to execute a search warrant at the home of a former president. it is so extraordinary in trumpian times to think that the fbi had to legally go there with

a warrant to get the things back just show it is severity and the differences in it. having covered a few of the classified document issues it is following a pattern on the biden side where the first few days are extremely bumpy. will's disclosure after disclosure. the stories sort of build on each other ands in very similar to what happened in the aftermath of the questions of hillary clinton and it is something that's unusual for the average lawyer in washington to be dealing with and because of that mistakes are made and there's miscommunications and missignals and stuff with the press and questions begin and people say why didn't they tell us this before or why does this seem different than before and why are there more documents

today than yesterday so in that sense it is something that happens in these early days of the matters that turn into investigations where the person that found the documents and those around them struggle to tell that story in a way that sort of narratively builds on its and looks like they know what they are doing. >> two questions for you. what can you tell us about the contents of the documents recovered in the biden locations? secondly, now this is in the hands of a special counsel. walk us through what happens next of a timeline and methods. >> so this special counsel inheriting the beginnings of a special investigation from a chicago attorney who is leaving

the department and will come in and will learn all the work that's done up to this point and operations like a pop-up u.s. attorney office. some staff will be added. and they will look at this. how did these documents end up where they did? why did they end up there? what were the reasons for that? they'll look at the reasons through the lens of just trying to understand what were the documents being used for? to make sure nothing nefarious was going on. many times with classified documents and such like this someone took them somewhere trying to finish reading them to prepare for a briefing or taking them to work on a book. and because of that the government will want to know who

had the documents at all points. they want to look at the fingerprints to see who touched them to see everyone that had access to them to make sure that national security wasn't jeopardized and protect that. they'll look at the information in the document. is this publicly known? in the most extraordinary situations is there a source to be protected or extracted because of that? they will look to understand what is this information? who had access to it? what measures need to be taken to ensure that national security is not damaged because of that? >> all right. michael, thank you so much.

>> thank you. jon lemire, another issue on capitol hill going to push this i think quickly to the side and that's the debt ceiling show down coming down. talking about how republicans don't have a lot of good options and not only wall street but any investors, any person concerned about the full faith and credit of the united states, the economy is worried that five or six extremists are going to seize control of this debate and hold the u.s. economy hostage, hold the markets hostage, hold middle class americans' retirement accounts hostage. this is what "wall street journal" editorial page writes. the worst-case scenario for americans to talk tough for

months to splinter and raising the debt limit with nothing to show for it. that is certainly the fear. as "wall street journal" -- look at this. right now if these extremists take control of the debate and the united states defaults on the debt we can lose 3 million jobs. retirement accounts, could lose $20,000 in savings. mortgages could cost additional $130,000 in the housing market that's already so extraordinarily tough for home buyers. borrowing across the board become harder for working class americans. for entrepreneurs.

price tags for every day items skyrocket and the u.s. national debt could increase by $850 billion. yet kevin mccarthy, jonathan lemire, and republicans talk about doing just this. they don't have the white house. they don't have the senate. as i said before, they don't have the business community. they don't have small business owners on they should side. they don't have entrepreneurs on their side. they won't have anybody on the side. as you watch extremists in the house drive this economy over the cliff. >> yeah. >> so, jonathan, what happens? what is going to happen? does kevin mccarthy actually see this at the beginning and stop this economic calamity or is he going to go along? as the "wall street journal" says this is going to make the

speaker's fight look like a tea party. >> yeah. this is bad news. there may be not much that kevin mccarthy can do because of the promises he made to become speakers. let's play chicken with the debt ceiling. you detailed what happened. unthinkable blow. people i talk to from the senate and the white house officials say that even getting close and if it looks like a political fight could lead to a real markets collapsing. if they talk about this leads to real problems for the economy. we heard from treasury secretary yellen a few days ago saying this is a problem. alarms are blaring. she is able to -- treasury able

to buy the country some time and the white house targeting moderate republicans in the house, mainstream republicans. focusing on those that won biden districts in 2020 suggesting they wouldn't want to go along with this. members of the white house legislative affairs team on the hill. maybe a flight on air force one. wooing to begin to say we got to push back from the brink. apply pressure on the colleagues to make sure that doesn't happen. >> worst time jeff gordon worst-case scenario right now. i spent my career this washington, d.c. and written a few books on it, on the importance of limiting government spending. i will say we fought hard to limit government spending in the

years i was there. balanced the budget. i'm all for less government spending. i spent my adult life fighting for smaller government but we have an economy that's struggling. we already have most economists talking about a serious recession. as we go throughout 2023, this is the last thing that we need to have some of those same people that we saw running around the house floor making fools of kevin mccarthy, of the republican leadership, now doing that to the u.s. economy, to america's full faith and credit. i think "wall street journal" is right. what's most likely to happen is

they hold the economy hostage and cave at the end. i hope there's reasonable, rational republicans from the districts that joe biden won that said, hey, i won't destroy voters in my district's 401(k)s. i won't make it harder to get mortgages and interest rates skyrocket for everybody. because these people want to prove a point in districts that they won with 82% of the vote. that's where we are right now. are republicans going to allow people that won the districts with 82% of the vote hold america's economy hostage? right now i don't hear anything different from kevin mccarthy sounding like he will go along for the ride. we won't be watching it on

c-span. following it. we will be watching it as people's 401(k)s and the retirement accounts collapse. >> this is real stuff. this used to be a layup a proforma vote. i know you're heartened as a conservative to see republicans looking at the economy. but as jon said people saw this coming in the speaker's fight. they said watch the deals he cut to get the people that are holding up the vote and seeing that now that he may have promised cuts to the budget and the government to hold up this thing that's two days away. we'll see. to ukraine the death toll continues to rise following russia's missile strike on an apartment complex on sad.

last night president zelenskyy confirmed at least 40 civilians including 3 children were killed. the deputy to zelenskyy said ukraine will not cease rescue efforts nol the bodies have been found. as of yesterday afternoon 34 ukrainian civilians are missing. we have reported on russia replacing a number of top generals and divisions among the military ranks but one person remained a constant for putin throughout the war. >> reporter: there's infighting in the upper ranks between an oligarch whose private army led them to success.

he's toned eastern ukraine into a vanity project to advance his own political ambitions. three days before the russian government claimed to conquer the area he said he was in the salt mines under the city. roasting russia's military who he said didn't help. the mercenaries hoisted the group's own colors over the town. if moscow's grateful for a rare victory they had a funny way to show it. putin shuffled the top ranks. do you think this is an attempt to sideline pagoshun. who is this shadowy figure? former convict he restarted the career as a caterer but then

leading a private army doing the dirty work in places like sorry yeah where the soldiers are accused of war crimes but ukraine put him in the public eye. he needed more men. he found them. recruiting convicts direct from prisons with promises of pardons. >> translator: the first sin is dessertion. >> reporter: straight into ukrainian defenses. the self promoting man showcasing every stage of the meat grinders. defending the amputee troops return to the front. >> reporter: the iron leg will be torn off. >> reporter: to sending them

home in body bags. >> translator: the contract is over. they are going home. >> reporter: the victory is for he himself. doing all of this in order to further political ambitions? >> translator: i would say that's the case. in particular strengthening the position in the apparatus around putin. >> reporter: climbing the kremlin ranks over the corpses of his own soldiers. still ahead on "morning joe," how president biden stacks up against potential republican opponents in 2024. new polling shows a big difference against donald trump. those numbers when "morning joe" comes right back.

i'd like to thank our sponsor liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. contestants ready? go! only pay for what you need. jingle: liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.

my asthma felt anything but normal. a blood test helped show my asthma is driven by eosinophils, which nucala helps reduce. nucala is a once-monthly add-on injection for severe eosinophilic asthma. nucala is not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occurred. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions,

back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. it's official, america. xfinity mobile is the fastest mobile service. back pain, and fatigue. and gives you unmatched savings with the best price for two lines of unlimited. only $30 a line per month. the fastest mobile service and major savings? can't argue with the facts. no wonder xfinity mobile is one of the fastest growing mobile services, now with over 5 million customers and counting. save hundreds a year over t-mobile, at&t and verizon. talk to our switch squad at your local xfinity store today.

new polling showing president biden defeating former president trump in a hype credit hypothetical show down. when asked to choose in the 2024 they would vote for biden, 41% say they would support trump. biden against another likely 2024 contender florida governor desantis the latter comes out on top. in that poll 45% say they'll back desantis. so far trump is the only one of

the three to officially announce for 2024 run though sources say biden is expected to announce in the coming months. interesting that beats trump but desantis is a different game. >> yeah. in a different category. john heilemann, a lot of random polls have been taken showing that biden edges out donald trump but you talk to democrats, you talk to contributors, the party members, they're a lot more concerned about ron desantis than donald trump. they have the playbook. they know where trump is weak . i always talk about the atlanta suburbs, those are areas donald

trump will never get back and that ron desantis can roll up good numbers and not a close call. republicans have to know this and makes you wonder why they consider a nominee sure to lose the suburbs. >> right. look. i don't think you have to get to the question of what desantis can or can't do. we just have no idea what he'll perform like on the national stage. here's the one thing we s the most known quantity is donald trump. we know everything we need to know about donald trump. not even talking about the personality, the threat to democracy, the pathological lie jeff gordon we now know where trump can and can't perform. what his ceiling and floor are as a presidential candidate. he is the -- there's no

republican who's paid attention to his run in '16 and '20 and the republican performance in the midterms that doesn't know what baggage donald trump has and the baggage he can't shed. there are voters he'll never get and no imaginable world that donald trump wins a popular majority in the american electorate and the narrow needle to thread in the electoral college is narrower where trump is a powerhouse in the republican party still and on the national level running head to head in a presidential level is close to unelectable. the deficits are so huge and well-known and specified if the republican party were rational

with a single mind there's no world in which he would be the nominee. there are still tens of millions of peel in the republican party that would vote for donald trump to be president again and that's the conundrum of the party. >> there is a lot unknown about ron desantis and republicans that think a national vetting may not go that well and the more republican that is jump in, nikki hayley might take the plunge in a few weeks, making the field bigger is better for donald trump. in terms of the white house and they anticipate still people around biden think that donald trump will be the republican nominee and the race they like. polls like this reinforce that. they like the chances in a

rematch. it gets harder to predict if it's something else. they prepare for trump and expect president biden to announce the presidential bid in a few months. maybe around the state of the union. live reports from the white house and capitol hill, how both ends of pennsylvania avenue react to the developments of president biden and classified documents. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

push by republican lawmakers to investigate president biden's mishandling of classified documents hit a bit of a snag. one day after the chairman of the house oversight committee

requested visitor logs of the private home in delaware the white house said no such records exist. the white house counsel's office responded to the letter writing in part like every president across modern history his personal residence is personal. classified documents from biden's time as vice president had been found there. the secret service echoed the white house response with a statement writing, quote, with e do not independently maintain our own visitor logs because it is a private residence. chairman comber expressed skepticism. >> you would assume that the secret service would vet people that would be allowed on the premise of the dwelling for the president of the united states.

there are other areas. i'm sure the records are destroyed or never existed. we believe that this family could be compromised because of the millions of dollars received from the adversaries particularly china and the fact they process the documents in multiple locations all over the town is very concerning. >> collect more data, the information. are there more out there? i know the white house tried to say it was all cleared up on thursday. i think there's questions that continue to raise and we want to get all the information possible. >> it is true over history that private residences have been maintained. but this is a story that republicans who had promised

lots of oversight didn't see coming and fell into the lap in the last couple of weeks. is this the focus of oversight now? >> it seems so. it pushed aside the talk of the invests that comer was discussing. they will have to work out jurisdiction issues but james comber said he would out in look into the justice department's investigation into the criminal investigation into trump's mishandling of classified documents. now this is a political gift handed to them and will see republicans try to milk this despite it being a political

headache. >> what is the sense on the white house side? this is a drip-drip-drip. we did find another. i found another one. the way they handled this, do you view this as a problem for the president, a political one? >> yeah. i think they do. a political headache. i think they also are frustrated with the media coverage with this. this is an investigation into sensitive documents so the white house can't get out there and sort of pre-emptively look at this. it's something that no one should comment on. there are questions why did biden not disclose this earlier.

but again, it's not common practice or standard practice for people to get out in front of a justice department investigation and look like they interfere. they also are at this point just following the department of justice's instructions, to search for more documents. this is the process. as my archive sources told me throughout this debacle the biden administration's handling of this and the way the lawyers handled this is how you should handle this versus trump's mishandling. coming up, the west is battered by severe weather. a series of storms threatening the state's infrastructure. nbc's miguel almaguer joins us straight ahead.

as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service

designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network. with no line activation fees or term contracts. saving you up to 60% a year. and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities.

the horse that collapsed in new york city last summer is reigniting efforts to ban the horse-drawn carriage industry. this year animal rights act vigss and others want the city council to ban horse carriages completely and replace them with electric-powered ones. we want to warn you, the video you're about to see the pretty hard to watch. these dramatic images of rider, the horse, went viral. as a result, a law was introduced by a new york city councilman, robert holden. he joined me along with edie falco, one of the many celebrities who have joined the call to end what they see as an abusive practice. i began by asking eddie why this issue is so important to her.

>> i'm an animal lover and advocate since i was a kid and i have been living in this city more years than i care to mention, and, you know, being on the new york city street you stop at a light, you hear the clop, clop, and you're pulling up next to a horse. it's preposterous this is still going on. >> it's also part of new york city's history to an extent. councilman holden, do you have enough votes to pass rieder's law? walk us through the process, what the challenges are. >> first we have to get a hearing. we have 18 sponsors on the bill. we have 13 others that had promised to co-sponsor the bill. they haven't signed on yet because of the union, the transport workers union, it's a powerful union. they want to keep these horses on the streets. horses don't belong on the streets of manhattan. come on. this is not, you know, 1823. this is 2023.

let's move on. new york city should be a leader. these horses are suffering. they're sumping day in and day out, and if you look at the stables in manhattan, it's miserable. miserable. they have -- they're pack animals. they really belong in a corral to run together. they shouldn't be nine hours a day, six days a week working on the streets of new york city. it's ridiculous. >> edie, i grew up as a horseback rider and i was always told because i did a lot of hacking around town, mclean, virginia, of all places, and my teachers would say stay off the black top. it's not good for their hooves. it's incredibly difficult for these horses day in and day out to be, you know, in this environment that's not natural to them. >> yeah. >> but how optimistic are you that ryder's law will pass this year? >> i need to be optimistic because it is so very dear to my

heart. and i think we are changing as a culture. you know, there's sort of a zeitgeist insofar as people recognizing what's wrong and right and how often you are judged by how you treat your most vulnerable society members. and i've been involved in animal rights for a long time. things are very slowly but powerfully changing. i mean, as far as i'm concerned, this should have been years ago. i was naive to think that when a politician said oh, it's high on my agenda, we'll get it done, that they would get it done. here i am years later still trying to move this issue forward. i continue to be, because i have to be, very optimistic that this will move forward. >> council member, there's also the concerns just about ryder's owner, who was found guilty in new york city department of health case after i guess there were falsified veterinary records, there was misinformation about the horse's actual age in order to get the

license. i mean, are there any safe guards that can be put in place as you fight to pass ryder's law? >> there have been safe guards. however, in this case, falsifying the records, he said that ryder -- the owner was 12 or 13 years old. he turned out to be 28 to 30 years old. horses only live 30 years at the most. so this horse was equivalent to a 90-year-old human, pulling thousands of pounds daily, six days a week, until the horse literally dropped. this is horrible, horrible ways to treat such beautiful animals. we should not be doing this in new york city. just the fact that there's no oversight, the department of health is overwhelmed with covid, obviously nape couldn't really do anything. and nypd really dropped the ball on this too. so we need oversight, but we need the horses off the streets. these are beautiful animals. >> we reached out to the transport workers union, local 100, which represents the carriage drivers, and these are their jobs that are on the line.

the union has maintained that ryder's death was an isolated incident, and they had this to say about ryder's law. they say "the bill itself operates on the assumption that the city is management -- the bill would have the city own the proposed electric carriages and then lease them to the carriage medal lon holders. the owners are told in the legislation what kinds of wages they would have to pay their employees and what benefits they must offer. they would force owners to have employees and force independent contractors to become age laborers." councilman, what's your response to these concerns? >> that's ridiculous. first of all, the transport workers union -- ever hear of a union representing management? they represent the horse owners. that's management. it's ridiculous. the drivers of the horses are independent contractors. they don't get prevailing wage. they don't get health care coverage. with my bill, they will. and let's get this, you know,

going. so anything the transport workers union is saying, they're holding our horses hostage, period, and they're lying too. >> edie, i'll read the new york city mayor's statement. the office has been integral to trying to resolve this debate. we reached out to mayor eric adams about the bill and were told, "we are reviewing the legislation on the proposed ban of horse-drawn carriages." so not a bold statement. >> no. >> one way or the other. >> no, no. >> but you're going to keep pushing. absolutely, until it's done. >> edie falco and robert holden, thank you both. to read the union's entire statement to "morning joe," head to our website or facebook page. we'll be following this story closely and update you along the way. still ahead, house republicans gear up for a fight over the debt ceiling. it's not just the hard-liners playing chick within the

economy. house speaker kevin mccarthy is endorsing their tactics. i'm managing my high blood pressure, but i'm still a target for chronic kidney disease. and my type 2 diabetes means i'm also a target. we are targets too. millions have chronic kidney disease and 90% don't know they have it. so ask for your kidney numbers and farxiga. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪

if you have chronic kidney disease, farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure, which can lead to dialysis. farxiga can cause serious side effects including dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections in women and men, and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect that may lead to death. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. and don't take it if you are on dialysis. take aim at chronic kidney disease-- ask your doctor for your kidney numbers and ask for farxiga. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ hello, world. or is it goodbye? you know, it seems like hope and trust are in short supply. [clap] now, as businesses we can blame and shame. or... [whistles] we can make a change. [clap] we can make work, work for our communities.

create more equal opportunities. [clap] it's time for business to show its true worth. because it's not goodbye, world. it's hello, team earth. [clap] it is the top of the hour. a live look at los angeles this morning. welcome back to "morning joe,"

the fourth hour. it is tuesday, january 17th, 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, time to wake up. keep that shot up. it's so beautiful. it's 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. ahead this hour, we have a live report from california, which is finally getting a break after rounds of devastating storms. the water is starting to recede in some areas, and state officials say the worst of the rain appears to be over. but they're telling everyone to stay vigilant of other threats until hard-hit areas dry out. also ahead, nbc's tom costello gives us a look at what was happening inside air traffic control as two planes barely avoided a high-speed crash on the runway at jfk. plus, a terrible night for tom brady in tampa. the cowboys blew out the buccaneers, and that has many speculating if it was, indeed, the final game for the

45-year-old quarterback. >> what do you think about that, willie? is it the final game, or do you think we have more tom brady? obviously, a lot of people thinking last night this could be a great game. man, they just leapt into the playoffs. brady turned in one of his better performances last week, but i must admit i thought this was going to be a really good game. never saw this total collapse of brady and the bucs coming. >> never close. it was 24-0 out of the gate. it should have been 28 if not for four missed extra points by the dallas kicker. he's 45 today. he'll be 46 years old on opening day of next season. he said after the game, i'm going to take some time, i'm going to think about it, literally going to take it one day at time from my wounds with this loss. but he's still playing at a high level for 45 years old.

threw for 350 yards last night. he could play this game if he wants to. it will be a question if he wants to play again with this bucs team, does he want to go to, say, las vegas and help them rebuild? at this point in his career given everything he's done, how much more does he want to play and for which team? >> does he want to play for jets? obviously in need. >> jonathan lemire is sighing. >> the jets, a pretty good defense, pretty good team. and they need a quarterback. and they obviously are -- i have to say also about last night, jonathan, vegas, i think the line was 2 1/2 points. they had dallas minus 2 1/2. vegas thought this was going to be a close game. it just didn't turn out that way. no. dallas sort of stumbled to the finish, but they looked good yesterday. maybe they give the 49ers a real

game. they can score some points even with the good defense the 49ers have. for brady, the jets would be a nightmare scenario, but they check the boxes, good skill positions, decent coach, big city, big market, and they're a quarterback short. i can't see him doing that also because he'd be a jet and therefore nothing works if you join that doomed franchise. but there are other options. i think the rumor all the year had been the 49ers, but with brock purdy playing so well, can't really see that happening anymore. the raiders are a possibility. josh mcdaniels was his offensive coordinator in new england, now the head coach there. they have weapons that are pretty good. there's some thought he might go wherever sean payton ends up. there might be a return to new england. robert kraft would like that, but probably not belichick. if he plays next year, i don't

think it will be with tampa. >> no. >> he kind of gave a thank you to tampa, the city, the organization, so at minimum that felt like a good-bye to that team if not to his career. >> willie, if i'm brady, you look at vegas, las vegas, who actually looked pretty good against san francisco. is it stenet? the backup quarterback came in and played well but the next week were blown out. if i'm tom brady, i would rather go to a team like new york that actually is solid, it's in new york city, and, you know, they're a quarterback away from being a really good team. >> still has a house in city last time i checked, so i think he'd be comfortable in new york, jonathan lemire, as much as it pains you. vegas is interesting because he has weapons there, two first-team guys, davonte adams, and the running back. the world is open to him. he could do what he wants to do.

again, this guy even at 45, this is not a broken-down sad version of a once great player. he's still putting up huge numbers. maybe he slowed down a little bit this year, but he's proven he can still get the job done. we'll talk more about this later this hour. here in washington, there is a dire warning from treasury secretary janet yellen to congressional leaders that the united states is expected to hit its borrowing limit as early as thursday, in two days. of course the treasury department, she says, needs to take extraordinary measures to keep paying its bills and prevent a default until early june. yellen urging lawmakers to act quickly to raise the debt ceiling and, quote, protect the full faith and credit of the country. but it likely will not be that simple. republicans of course now in control of the house and have threatened to use the debt ceiling as leverage to demand spending cuts from democrats and from the biden administration. let's bring in nbc news senior political reporter sahil kapur, who joins us just across the

street on capitol. sahil, good to see you this morning. how close do you think we're going to come here to just violating this thing that used to just be sort of pro forma, that they would raise the debt ceiling and move on but now is being used as a bargaining chip? and what deals might speaker mccarthy have made to become speaker that could affect the process here? >> reporter: that is one of the most important questions on capitol hill this year, how close to the brink will congress come, because house republicans are on a collision course with president biden on the issue of the debt ceiling. they insist they will not raise it cleanly when the deadline comes up in early june. they want conservative policy provisions attached to it. this push is being led by many of the same 15 to 20 house republicans who forced 14 embarrassing defeats for speaker mccarthy before finally selecting him for the job. you know they're willing to use aggressive tactics just based on how they've behaves do far. these are some of the things they want, some of these members

saying they want dollar for dollar spending cuts, a ten-year balanced budget, comes to the mandatory spending pile of the budget, including things like social security, fed care, and food stamps, as well as government funding down to fiscal 2022 levels before the previous government funding deal. one of those republicans, congressman chip roy of texas told me, "you only have so many leverage and negotiating points. the debt creeling is one of those." speaker mccarthy has notish shuped a specific list of demands as to what he wants attached to the debt ceiling, but he has endorsed this tactic generally and said president biden needs to come to the table, negotiate some changes to the federal budget. he compared the u.s. government to a child with a credit card limit that needs to be reduced. he said he's not budging. the white house says none of this is going to happen. their position is no negotiations. they point out this is not about policy but whether the u.s. government pays its bills and that to them is not something they'll negotiate on.

here's what karine jean-pierre had to say. >> it is to be done in a bipartisan way over the years, and decades, and it should be done in a bipartisan way, should be done without conditions. we're not going to do any negotiations or -- and it should be done without conditions. >> reporter: that position is backed by the top two democrats in congress, chuck schumer and hakeem jeffries, who said in a recent letter, "default forced by extreme maga republicans could plunge the country into a deep recession." there is one idea that is being talked about a lot in washington as well as on wall street as a way to get around kevin mccarthy and these conservatives. there's a so-called discharge position where technically if 218 lawmakers in the house sign it, it has to get to a floor vote regardless of what the speaker wants. the major caveat this would take a long time, 37 legislative days. that gets us to midday v may. if they want to do that, they better start getting a deal from the next few weeks. otherwise they'll be dealing

with speaker mccarthy and the house republican hard-liners in terms of whether and when the country raises the debt ceiling. willie? >> as of now, they have two days, not those 37. sahil kapur, thank for reporting from capitol hill. joe, this will be the question -- what did speaker mccarthy -- something we talked about during the process a couple weeks ago -- what did he give up and promise to those members to get their vote about cutting spending, going after the debt that could hold up this process? >> right. it's a great question. the "wall street journal" asking questions also about how the republicans are going to handle this, talking about the fact that, you know, the hard reality of the debt ceiling showdown, democrats control the white house, democrats control the senate, republicans have a slim five-vote majority in the house of representatives, and chances are good, the "wall street journal" says the worst result would be for republicans to talk

tough for months, only to splinter in a rout in the end and be forced to turn the house over to raise the debt ceiling. the fact is, willie, it's one thing for these house republicans, who, by the way, never protested while donald trump was raising the deficit and the federal debt to record levels every year. let me say this again. these republicans, when they ran congress, went along for the ride and the largest expansion of the federal debt and the deficit in 2017 and 2018 and 2019 and 2020. they never said a word when donald trump was president of the united states. suddenly, they want to wreck the economy because the democrats are in the white house? this is a lot like when george w. bush was president. the deficit exploded because apparently republicans only care

about deficits when democrats are in the white house. but all these people that are being self-righteous and talking about the end of america's economy, they're completely silent as donald trump was spending. and the impact -- and we've talked about this before -- the impact on the u.s. economy could be devastating. it's one thing if you turn the house floor over to the extremists and the selection of house speaker and let five, six, seven people who are far outside the mainstream of american political thought and economic thought, won that. but here, what are the consequences if the united states defaults? we showed it before. we probably should show it again, t.j. you obviously have, as janet yellen has said, you obviously have america's full faith and

credit put on the line if this default moves forward. or as we're starting to hear, if you even threaten a default, and what does that mean, that means interest rates are going to explode, that means the cost of housing is going to explode, americans could lose 3 million jobs, middle-class americans, working-class americans, upper middle-class americans, you listen too. if you have 401(k)s, they could be shredded. shredded if there's a default or even the threat of a default. 30-year mortgages could cost an additional $130,000 because of maga extremists, because of five, six, seven people that are actually threatening default in the united states economy? borrowing across the board explodes. price tag for everyday items explodes. and the u.s. national debt,

which republicans sat by and let donald trump take to record levels could increase by $850 billion. so the question, mika, really is, is kevin mccarthy really going to play chicken with the u.s. economy, with american workers, with their retirement casualties? because i've seen this play out before. i've seen it play out before time and time again. at the end of the day, small groups of extremists always get run over because it's not going to be leftists that are against a default, it's going to be small business owners who can't afford the loans going up, can't afford their costs going up. it's going to be entrepreneurs. it's going to be business owners. it's going to be a lot of republican contributors who are going to be the first say to kevin mccarthy, kevin, let's not be crazy here, let's not wreck the united states economy.

so then what happens? does he play this out? and then as the "wall street journal" says, and then folds at the end? my guess is that's exactly what he does. >> especially in the caucus holding him something to he has no choice or he'll get kicked out per the rules he agreed to. he's in a bad position. >> there is no reason joe biden or democrats in the senate or democrats in the house should negotiate five, six, seven extremists. >> exactly. >> and they're not going to. so this is really up to kevin mccarthy. does he want to wreck the economy or does he want to go ahead and try to work out a deal now? >> let's go live to the world economic forum in davos. >> a lot of americans obviously, i'm sure a lot of people across the world concerned about a possible defalse statement. what are the consequences of even that threat lingering out

there? >> it was fascinating listening to you talk. it's not big on people's radar screen in davos, but people are asking what are these crazies going to do in the u.s. house and do we need to take it seriously? we've seen this play out in the united states before. in the end, you know, reason prevailed. but i think there's kind of an assumption that will happen, but as things play on and if this becomes the drama you've been describing, it is going to be a real worry because however small you think the risk is, the consequences will be so cataclysmic, it will shoot up the agenda. right now it's not top of mind here. >> let's talk about what is top of mind in davos. we hear inflation and recession. what are the concerns there? slow growth is another term we're hearing about. what is the topic of discussion there primarily at davos? >> actually, all of the above,

so inflation, recession, and i'd add ukraine. those are the three immediate topics. things that have struck me, the charm offensive the chinese government is beginning to start. they mentioned international cooperation several times. there is clearly a big push by the chinese government and a lot of talk here about what happens after the terrible wave of covid deaths pass and china's opening means its economy is back. does that mean, you know, a boom in china? does it mean higher inflation for the rest of the world as china starts, you know, consuming more oil, consuming more gas, more commodities? that's one. the other is the consequences of the inflationary reduction act and the huge amount of u.s. subsiies going into green technology with the protectionism around them that the biden administration has put on it. people are angry about that, and europeans are thinking about how they're going to have their own subsidy scheme. the u.s.' friends and allies

around the world are, like, this is going to hurt us, and there's a lot of talk about do we have a new zero-sum world of massive subsidies. >> hey, zanny. also the impact of the pandemic, companies trying to manufacture more at home, the protectionism. but you mentioned ukraine. let me ask you about the idea of the energy crisis in europe, which has been bailed out at least so far by a relatively mild winter. but how do they see this going, the people you're talking to there, if this is a war that lasts not just for months but perhaps for years? >> i think there's a lot of relief that the winter has been so mild. it's funny. it snowed a couple days ago, but before that it was green and it's a nice day again today. europe has had a mild winter. there's complacency that's come from that. some people are noticing this. the global energy supplies are really tight. if you have china roaring back and either a hot summer or a

tough winter next year, europe could be in real trouble again. i think there's a whole load of talking about that and of course how it relates to the climate agenda, which is a huge topic, davos' favorite topic, the climate agenda. i'm not sure those two have been married together, so a lot of talk, no clearances yet. >> editor in chief "the economist," zanny minton beddoes, thanks for being on this morning. we appreciate it. in washington, republicans are demanding more answers from president biden this morning after the white house acknowledged additional pages of classified documents were found at the president's home in delaware late last week. joining us is nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, what's the latest? >> reporter: good morning to both of you. this continues to build and the calls for answers are growing louder this morning with republicans demanding to see the visitor logs from president biden's delaware home. that's of course one of two

location where is classified documents were found. look, the political fallout is really growing as well with key questions lingering. i think at the top of that list is why it took the white house months to reveal the recovered records. this morning, president biden is facing growing calls for transparency from republicans and even some democrats amid the special counsel's investigation into his handling of classified documents after he left the biden administration. how do you think the classified documents got into your -- the president ignored questions about the inquiry monday, but pressure is mounting after this weekend the white house counsel's office said additional pages of classified documents were discovered inside the president's delaware home. in response, the chairman of the house oversight committee asked the white house for visitor logs of his residence, citing national security concerns. but the white house and the secret service say they do not maintain visitor logs for the president's home because it's a private residence. a spokesman for the white house

counsel's office saying in a statement," like every president across decades of modern history, his personal residence is personal." a secret service spokesperson said "agency does perform background checks on visitors who come into contact with the bidens at both delaware homes but that those documents are only kept for a limited time." but republicans still demanding more answers. >> the security cameras, remember, the fbi when they raided mar-a-lago, did they do the same with joe biden? you know he has surveillance cameras there. >> collect more of the data and information. are these all the documents? >> reporter: it composite after about a dozen initially discovered at mr. biden's private office including one document marked top secret according to sources familiar with the matter. that followed by two batches discovered in delaware including inside his garage. what's not yet clear the total number of classified records recovered. now three sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news

president biden is frustrated with the backlash and with his administration's response, which has left key questions unanswered. and of course just recently, the attorney general appointed a special counsel to look into this. the white house saying it will cooperate fully with that investigation. and of course a special counsel has been appointed to look into former president trump's handling of classified documents as well. his mar-a-lago estate as you know, as we reported on extensively, was searched last year. more than 100 classified documents were recovered in that instance after he refused a request to turn the materials over to the national archives. according to multiple reports, the justice department is looking to interview people who searched mr. trump's properties late last year. and you can't ignore the politics of all of this. former president trump of course has announced his candidacy in 2024 and we know president biden said he plans to make an official announcement early in this new year, willie. >> and both men with a special counsel looking at those

documents. nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker. thanks so much. to california now, where officials warn it could take weeks to clean up the damage from a series of storms that have swamped cities across the state, destroyed roads, homes, and bridges. let's bring in nbc news national correspondent miguel almaguer live from northern california. good morning. what does it look like there? >> reporter: willie, good morning. this is what so many roads look like across california. they are just shut down. this is the entrance to highway 9. just down the road and around the bend there's a massive landslide that's all over the road. the road itself is compromised. officials say it will take weeks if not months to repair this one road. the cost will be in the millions. while the storms are slowing, the damage is done. this morning, california is on shaky ground. a state known for earthquakes is now facing a series of dangerous landslides. crashing down with tons of

deadly force, roads, bridges, and highways are being buried under feet of debris. in less than three weeks, over 400 mudslides reported. now that the white house has declared a disaster declaration, cities and counties across california will begin to assess the damage and the repairs. experts believe the damage to infrastructure can easily top a billion dollars and take months to fix. with this dumping deluge triggered by a series of ten relentless storms hammering the state since christmas, at least 22 lives have been lost according to an nbc news count, and thousands remain under evacuation order. >> this used to be a 50-year flood zone. now it's a three- to five-year flood zone. >> reporter: from massive floods to blinding flurries, even the sierras are buried under several feet of snow. meanwhile, the midwest also getting hit hard by extreme weather.

>> whoa! big tornado. >> reporter: two rare tornado reports in iowa with wind speeds up to 90 miles an hour, the first since the 1960s. but back in california, the deadly winter weather is finally beginning to clear, bringing a massive trail of destruction back into focus. >> there's probably about 10 or 12 feet high of mud and trees and debris and dirt. it's extraordinary. i don't really know what we're going to do. we'll figure it out. >> reporter: president biden is expected here in california on thursday to meet with first responders and the men and women who are cleaning up disasters like the mudslide behind me. of course getting access across this area will be a challenge. mika? >> nbc's miguel almaguer, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," we're digging into the shortage of antibiotics and other commonly used drugs in the middle of the worst flu season in a decade combined with cases of rsv and of course covid.

plus, we'll hear from a passenger who was inside one of the two planes that nearly collided on the runway at jfk. we'll also talk about a "wall street journal" story talking about russia's use of energy as a weapon against europe has backfired. it's something we predicted on the show a couple months ago. it's happening and it's more bad news for vladimir putin. that when we come back. safelite, because you can track us and see exactly when we'll be there. >> woman: i have a few more minutes. let's go! >> tech vo: that's service that fits your schedule. go to safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

with unitedhealthcare my sister has a whole team to help her get the most out of her medicare plan. ♪wow, uh-huh♪ advantage: me! can't wait 'til i turn 65! take advantage with an aarp medicare advantage plan... only from unitedhealthcare.

it's half past the hour. a live look at new york city this morning. yesterday we told you about the very close call on the runway at new york's jfk airport that took place on friday. both the faa and the ntsb are now investigating how an american airlines plane cut across the runway just as a delta flight was starting its takeoff. nbc news correspondent tom costello has new details. >> reporter: you can hear the

urgency in the air-traffic controller's voice. >> delta 1943, cancel takeoff plans. >> reporter: delta 1943 was speeding down jfk runway after being cleared for takeoff when american flight 106 started to taxi across the same runway. >> american 106 heavy, american 106 heavy, hold position! american 106 heavy, hold position! >> reporter: the delta 737 was traveling at 115 miles per hour, a potential collision just seconds away. >> rejecting. >> reporter: listen to the delta pilot's reaction. >> phew! delta 1943. >> reporter: brian healy was a passenger on the delta flight. >> with no sense of pandemonium, no sense of crisis. i think there was calm and patience on the part of the passengers, and that's largely thanks to the crew and the pilot in particular. >> reporter: when the american

777 pilot asked what happened, a controller said he had apparently made a wrong turn and lined up on the wrong runway. >> you were supposed to depart runway 4l. you're currently holding short of 3l left. >> where was the miscommunication between the american crew and the air-traffic controllers? the delta crew was doing everything they were told to do. >> reporter: a lot has the changed since a horrific runway crash in the canary islands when two fully loaded planes crashed into each other in a fiery crash in 1977. 583 people died. today, modern airports are equipped with ground radar systems that track every plane's runway movements. runway status lights signal when a runway is busy. automated collision alert systems. and a tower constantly scanning runways and taxiways. steve abraham spent 27 years as a jfk controller. >> when a controller clears an aircraft for takeoff and when

you say takeoff, you're looking at the airplane having scanned the full length of the runway to ensure it's clear. >> tom costello with that report. that's too close. >> it is. i'm old enough to remember the canary islands crash. you hear about something like this and you go back to that moment in '77. but, willie, it doesn't happen much here. i mean, as far as even close calls like that. but you have to, again -- these pilots, the delta pilot was, like, basically okay, and his only reaction was, "phew." like he almost spilled a cup of coffee. >> probably had a few other things to say. >> i'm sure he had more to say later on to the american pilots, but, again, some quick thinking obviously by air-traffic controllers and the delta pilot. >> that's a pilot for you, isn't it?

they always keep it right in here, and thank god for that. it sounds like human error. i didn't realize the extent to which tom laid out all the precautions that are in place to prevent something like that from happening. but if a pilot takes a wrong turn, thank god they dodged that one there. other stories making headlines, brittney griner made an appearance yesterday at a march for martin luther king day in down founders cup phoenix. the wnba star telling our local nbc affiliate she is happy to be home after spending nearly ten months locked up in russia. griner was at the march with her wife, cherelle, and pose for pictures with fans for the first time since her release. in california, investigators believe a drug car toll is behind the murders of six people including a teenaged mother and her 6-month-old baby. the tulare county sheriff said the victims were targeted early monday morning at a home near fresno. at least two suspects responsible for the massacre.

the sheriff said the killings may have been related to a search warrant carried out last week at the home that ended with an arrest and seizure of guns, marijuana, and methamphetamines. beginning today, all united states military veterans in suicidal crisis are eligible for free emergency medical care at any veterans affairs or private facilities. veterans do not have to be enrolled in the va system to be eligible. it includes up to 30 days of inpatient care and up to 90 days of follow-on outpatient care. the d.a. says it has around 9 million veterans enrolled in medical care and an estimated 9 million more not enrolled and are potentially eligible for this care. a public memorial service for lisa marie pressly is scheduled to take place on the front lawn of graceland 9:00 a.m. this sunday. she'll be buried at graceland next to her son, benjamin, who died by suicide in 2020, as well

as elvis and other members of the family. in lieu of flowers, the family are encouraging people to donate to the elvis pressly foundation focused on arts, education, and children's programs in the memphis area. lisa marie died thursday at the age of 54 after she was rushed to the hospital for a medical emergency, according to her family. following her death on thursday, elvis' estate, which is in a trust, will benefit lisa marie's three daughters. joe? jonathan lemire, earlier, when you were talking to the editor of "the economist," you talked about russia's economy and the dependence on -- europe's dependence on it. in the "wall street journal" this morning there's a story talking about russia's attempt to use oil as a wedge against europe has failed miserably.

european gas prices fell 15% on monday. that's the lowest they have been since 2021. what's happening is, you know, it wasn't too long ago that europe was -- 40% of the oil that europe used came from russia. those numbers are going down now. russia is being forced to sell it to china and india and is paying considerably less for the oil. so this "wall street journal" story talks about what we predicted earlier, that this war has been catastrophic on vladimir putin on many different levels, military and economically, but also this is the foundation of russia's economy, and as we predicted on this show a couple months ago when he started talking about using oil as leverage, they're, like, that's all you've got? and now you're going to throw that into the mix too? well, we predicted it would

backfire against him. it's backfired spectacularly. so much for the cold european winter causing havoc on europeans. >> yeah. throughout its history, russia's military has been aided by the winter. it's been its best ally. it got let down this time. it's been a mild winter in europe. this show predicted this might happen. russia struggled to adapt to the price cap that a lot of the western nations put on russian oil, as well as they're suffering under some of the embargoes and sanctions. western officials have told me in recent days they're starting to see an impact, even though vladimir putin tried to sanction-proof his economy before this war. they're starting to see some impact, some slowdowns. europe has been able to have their own gas. the united states has been able to send some over. and they've been able to do okay. there's construction under way to try to further make these european companies independent,

to be able to supply their own fuel and rely on russia even less going forward as this conflict looks like it's stretching on. this was a calculation that putin was banking on, that a tough winter, prices would soar, and europe would buckle. he's been able to offset a little with russia and india buy bug nowhere near what he expected. >> again, china -- >> china. >> much lower prices for it. but like we said here, if russia uses oil as a weapon against europe, if they don't sell to europe, all they do is force europe to become independent of russian oil. again, talking about the catastrophic impact of this war, how it set russia's military back a generation. >> mm-hmm. >> and it's now doing the same thing for the economy. you actually have europeans becoming more dependent on russian energy. of course we all heard about the

pipeline that was debated because it would have made europe even more dependent on russian oil and they were already overly dependent. russia took that away. they undermined themselves once again. putin once again a strategic miscalculation, not on the battlefield but on the economy. >> and it continues. >> as jonathan said, economics and leaders across the world now starting to say this war really is beginning to have a real impact on putin's russia. straight ahead, we'll have the latest from china as an abrupt end to the country's zero-covid policy unleashes a new wave of infections. plus, we've been trying to read the crystal ball all morning. has tom brady played his final game as an nfl quarterback?

in the next minute, 250 couples will discover... (laughs) they're gonna need more space... yep...the house... we gotta sell it! we gotta stage it. excuse me. fix it up. they don't pre-rinse. strangers touching everything. or, skip the hassles and sell with confidence to opendoor. close in a matter of days. oh, wow. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. request a cash offer at opendoor.com power e*trade's easy-to-use tools make complex trading less complicated

custom scans help you find new trading opportunities while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market struggling with the highs and lows of bipolar 1? ask about vraylar. because you are greater than your bipolar 1, and you can help take control of your symptoms - with vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar treats depressive, acute manic, and mixed episodes of bipolar 1 in adults. proven, full-spectrum relief for all bipolar 1 symptoms. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles or confusion which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects.

sleepiness and stomach issues are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save.

next on behind the series... let me tell you about the greatest roster ever assembled. the monster, the outlaw... and you can't forget about the boss. it wasn't just a roster. it was a menu. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. live picture of dallas at 8:43 in the morning where they are waking up to celebrate a huge win in the playoffs last night over tom brady and the tampa bay bucs. brady and the bucs lost to the

cowboys in last night's nfc wild-card game, ending tampa's season and leaving many to speculate about whether it was tom brady's final game. nbc news correspondent morgan chesky joins was the latest. good morning. what are they saying? >> reporter: they're saying a lot, willie. i think dallas fans are still pinching themselves today, but as for brady, he's had so many fourth quarter comebacks, but it just wasn't in the cards last night, and a testament to who he is in the league. for as many people saying how about them cowboys, there were just as many asking what's next for tom brady? he's had 23 incredible seasons in the nfl, and now everybody wants to know if there's going to be another. this morning, unfamiliar territory for quarterback tom brady. the tampa bay buccaneers wild-card loss last night against dallas cutting his playoff run short and marking the end of a tumultuous season for number 12. dallas easily defeating the bucs

31-14 with dak prescott throwing for four touchdowns and running for a fifth. >> misses again! >> reporter: although the cowboys kicker missed a record four extra point attempts, generating this reaction from peyton and eli manning. >> oh, my god. you've got to be kidding me. >> i've never seen anything like this. >> reporter: monday's matchup the only time brady's been able to put up points in the first half of a playoff game in 12 years. >> brady throws it. intercepted! >> reporter: the veteran qb even throwing his first red zone interception as a buccaneer. >> nowhere to go and he's sacked. >> reporter: the defeat giving his first ever career loss to the cowboys. >> i'm going to get a good night's sleep. one day at a time. >> we don't know the future for tom brady. >> reporter: after officially retiring last february, the seven-time super bowl champ calling an audible just weeks later, returning for his 23rd

season. >> make no mistake, it was a very, very tough year both on and off the field for tom brady. >> reporter: in august, brady made headlines after leaving training camp for more than a week. >> i'm 45 years old, man. [ bleep ]. you know, trying to figure out life the best you can. >> give him a kiss! >> reporter: in october, brady and his wife announced their divorce after 13 years of marriage. all of it happening while the bucs tried to find their rhythm on the field. >> we struggled with pretty much everything. >> reporter: despite making the playoffs, they finished with a losing record, the first of brady's career. and now with his 2023 plans a mystery, number 12's next move is up in the air. so, what could come next for number 12? we know if he decides not to return to football fox sports is reportedly offering a deal of about $300 million to join their team as an nfl analyst. however, brady has stressed he's

going to take some time to consider all his options. there are a number of nfl teams that could be potentially pursuing him for next season, one of those being the san francisco 49ers. no secret that brady grew up on the west coast. might not be a bad idea to return to the roots. however, willie, his kids live on the east coast, so no shortage of things to consider many the days and weeks ahead. but my gut tells me that no matter what he chooses number 12 is going to be doing just fine. >> yeah, i think so. vegas needs a quarterback, and so, too, do the new york jets. we will see. nbc's morgan chesky. thanks so much. coming up next here, health systems and pharmacies are running out of antibiotics and other drugs needed to treat patients with the flu, covid, and rsv. we will be joined by the former obama white house adviser for health policy to talk about that and more, next on "morning joe."

my husband and i have never been more active. shingles doesn't care. i go to spin classes with my coworkers. good for you, shingles doesn't care. because no matter how healthy you feel, your risk of shingles sharply increases after age 50. but shingrix protects. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain,

redness, and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. shingles doesn't care but, shingrix protects. shingrix is now zero dollars for almost everyone. ask your doctor about shingrix today.

there's always a fresh deal on the subway app. like this one! 50% off?! that deal's so good we don't even need an eight-time all-star to tell you about it. wait what? get it before it's gone on the subway app! china is dealing with an explosive new surge of covid

cases. this as the u.s. and world health organization accused the country of underrepping this latest outbreak. nbc news foreign correspondent janis mackey fraier has the latest from beijing. >> reporter: this morning a covid crisis showing little mercy. at hospital emergency rooms, patients are crammed into hallways, stairwells, lobbies and the sick keep coming. >> day and night there's this constant stream. >> reporter: beds are usually full here, says this bomb. overcrowded and overstretched yet no shortage of despair. the abrupt end of china's zero covid policy unleashed a wave of infection on a population that wasn't ready. scores of people are dying. bodies taken for cremation after families are given ten-minute

time slots to say good-bye. under pressure to share data, china's authorities reported nearly 60,000 covid-related deaths in one month. that's at hospitals alone. as staggering 900 million people have been infected. the number validate what we have seen for weeks. we have witnessed crematoriums operating at all hours. and funeral after funeral revealing covid's toll. why did you leave us so soon, a woman cries. officials say infections have peaked in major cities but will likely spread with people going home to visit family for the lunar new year. the concern now, the next wave. with hundreds of millions traveling again taking the virus into rural areas. experts worry about weaker medical systems in the countryside after shortages of drugs and oxygen in the cities. my father had no symptoms but still died, say this is woman.

her mother is still recovering. with china bracing for a second surge that's coming. >> janis mackey frayer with that report. we're still seeing a shortage of antibiotics such as amox slin used to treat patients with think of the respiratory viruses slamming this country. parents are especially concerned as pharmacies run out of children's meds such as tylenol and now the fda is saying this could last months. joining us now is former white house adviser for health policy dr. emanuel. he's an msnbc medical contributor. and he's out with a new piece for the "washington post" entitled "drug shortages are an urgent national danger, here's how we fix them."

good to see you again. how do we fix them? >> we do have to reshore our production. a large part of this problem is offshoring to china and india, where production is episodic because of contamination and other quality problems. and we should never be letting our chief global rival, china, produce most of our medicines. over 90% of our antibiotics are produced by china. we have to reshore them. the best way to reshore them is to go back to the old days between 1976 and 2006, puerto rico was our main site of production. we should return to that. >> so we have been talking about this for a couple years now. you have been talking about this for a couple years as well, because when covid first erupted in february/march of 2020, we were having shortages, whether it was mask shortages or

ventilatorer shortages, but then we started talking about shortages in medicine. here we are two years later. we're still talking about it. when are we going to start moving on this? this seemed like a no brainer three years ago. >> i think the good news is that there's now a bipartisan group of people in washington, congressman and senators, who the to move something. their proposal unfortunately is mostly to try to get medicare and medicaid to the united states. but this is a supply rob. this is where do we produce and the fastest way to produce things is to go back to the old days. give a tax break, a production of drugs and devices in puerto rico. that will increase production there. we have facilities, we have a trained workforce. it's relatively lower pay than the united states. it will also bring puerto rico out of recession.

so it's got lots of advantages. it has economic advantages for puerto rico it's got national security advantages. and it has health advantages, eliminating the generic drug shortages that of we have had. it's not expensive. i think that's the way to go. >> doctor, you touched on it, but 97% of our antibiotics are made in china. there's a supply chain issue. there's a question of quality. there's the question of whether the fda can get in and inspect these places. so as a physician, on the patient side of it, what concerns you about all of this? >> you can't get critical antibiotics, you can't get critical things like lidocaine or infusions. a lot of those are in short supply. we move production when the tax break went away and we moved it to the lowest cost place without thinking about contamination, without thinking about fda

inspection, thinking about putting our health in the hands of china. that is a very silly move. for a few pennies on these pills, we have gone to china. we need to bring it back. we recognize the importance of this in terms of chips, so we are investing in bringing microchip manufacturing back to the united states. drugs are just as important as microchips and can threaten the country if they get terminated. so we need to just invest. and let the drug companies begin producing there. >> all right. dr. emanuel, thank you much for being with us. we'll be talking about this in the weeks and months to come. >> hopefully not in the three years to come. >> hope congress gets it right. final thoughts, willie? >> the debt ceiling, right

across the street on capitol hill from where i'm sitting now. janet yellen says two days. thursday is the day something has to happen. will kevin mccarthy be able to get enough votes to lift the debt ceiling and prevent a kprie christ sis that we have been laying out all morning? >> it could be catastrophic. jonathan? >> white house sounding the alarm on that topic. we expect to hear from president biden today about it. and even just talking about it, even just playing bringsmanship could lead to real trouble. >> that does it for us this morning. swrd judo picks up the coverage right now. ght now. good morning, 10:00 a.m. eastern, 7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart. this hour in new mexico, a failed election denying republican candidate under arrest accused in several shootings at the homes of