♪ >> the women's world cup final kicks off on sunday. there's been record growth in the game, but is at a level playing field between richer and poorer nations? how far can the sport go for female footballers. this is "inside story." ♪ >> hello, welcome to the program. spain played england on sunday for the fifa women's world cup.

after a tournament that seemed record crowds and tv audiences worldwide. it's a transformation from the first women's world cup in 1991, a time when they came was only in a few country. now it's a big is, professional sport. but the top stars, heroes and role models for young girls who cannot dream of one day scoring the win after their country in the world cup. what's next for woman's football? can it be as big as the men's game and can all countries have a fair chance of tasting world cup victory. we will discuss all of that and more what we kickoff the discussion with our guests in just a moment. let's go to our reporter alex thomas in sydney. in battle in the final on sunday. >> whatever happens later this week there will be a new name on the trophy. we've seen record tv ratings and not just in australia, ticket sales have also been higher than ever before, and this event has

proved the commercial viability of women's football, if there was any doubt at all. the key thing from a business sense is the diversity of the audience bringing new fans to the sport it would never normally show an interest, and the culture is different to the men's game. still noisy and passionate but less toxic and intimidating. special mention to colombia's fans who turned up in impressive numbers and certainly made their presence known. most experts i've spoken to also say it would inspire other women sports that try to achieve the same visibility. the battle still hasn't been one in terms of prize money and pay to match the men's game. also, for every national football association to take the women's game as seriously as the men's. england, nigeria and jamaica were among the dispute where their countries were going into this event.

but, there's no question it's more positive than negative, australia and new zealand welcome the world and they showed up. i'm alex thomas in sydney for inside story. >> let's take a quick look at the rapid growth of the women's world cup. it's been 32 years since china hosted the first tournament in 1991. back then, 12 teams qualified, now 32 teams of played in australia and new zealand. that's eight more than the previous tournament in france four years ago. more teams have led to more fans. ticket sales are set to hit nearly 2 million, brought by fans from 182 countries who have traveled down under to see the games. tv audiences have broken records worldwide despite the significant types of differences, fifa says this world cup is on target to reach an overall tv audience of 2 billion worldwide. ♪

>> let's meet our guests from toronto, canada. contributor with cdc sports covering world cup from the capital of rwanda, the former professional athlete and sports journalists. and from such the netherlands is a professional footballer for the club and the woman's first division. she's also captain of the afghanistan women's national team. a warm welcome to you all. this world cup has been a huge success by anyone's measure. to what do you attribute that success? >> i think we have to give a nod to new zealand and australia cohost on this incredible tournament for providing a blueprint. this is my third woman's world cup that i've attended in the country is absolutely in love with women's sport. it is being supported publicly,

it's being supported politically, and i think that's the difference how the game can grow. and they really offered the world a map on how to be able to do this in a way that's not toxic and that just provides a lot of excitement for the beautiful game. >> it's great to see you, you are with us in doha in al jazeera for the men's world cup at the end of 2022. the women's game is growing in popularity. this tournament has been something else, hasn't it? >> it's been incredible. the fact that it has been down under, a country like australia and new zealand that really embrace sports in general, but also women sports last year, last year we saw impeccable attendance at the fifa women's basketball world cup and now the women's fifa cup. we've just seen a lot of encouragement and a lot of people embrace and winning in sports. just buying tickets and making sure they take young girls to be

inspired at the world cup. there has been more interested then what we saw on the 2019 in france, of course it was a perfect platform, but now it has really gotten to a very high level and it's great to experience. >> are reports of this tournament always going to be a success or do you think something else is at play? >> i believe it's a huge success and women's football is definitely headed in the positive direction. i think one of the key contributors to this success is expanding the format from 24 teams to 32, and replicating it like the men's world cup. because of that, we see so many new nations taking part in debuting in the women's world cup. on top of that, the success has been incredible from the six confederations, each confederation has had teams that have won at least one match.

so it's definitely very successful and it's headed in a positive direction. >> you think opening it up to 32 teams was a good thing? it hasn't just highlighted the disparity in ability levels between various parts of the world. >> with the expansion of the world cup, you see that the teams that deserve to be at the world stage are there, but other nations that deserve to develop and grow the women's game and truly show that the women's world cup is a global tournament. regardless of this four-line, regardless of whether your nation is losing today, i think 10 years down the road it's really going to significantly impact the women's game and only benefit it. >> what have the highlights of this tournament been so far for you? off the field as well as on it before we talk about the issues. >> just highlighting what was

said, the expansion is important. you mentioned the disparities between the team and the way they are sub -- supported financially in the struggles as a part of the conversation in the culture of the ecosystem of women's football globally, and these are things that we can't separate. a lot of people, it's easy for media to separate happening on the pitch and off. and you have debut teams that made it beyond the group stages, which is incredible. morocco was debuting at the world cup, only the second team in women's world cup history support to the knockout rounds. i think it's important to continue. highlighting issues that occur as a part of the growth of women's football. one of the things i'm most excited about is the conversations being had by supporters and by media, but what the type of things that are happening, good and bad in

women's football. those conversations have and always occurred, so it's really important that they are happening. >> would you agree that opening up to 32 teams was the right thing to do? >> absolutely, even from an african point of view, now we get to see new teams that are competing in women's football. in the past it has always been nigeria, cameroon, ghana, but just seeing the players going to that stage, zombie in morocco getting into the competitions. playing games that lead up to the women's world cup and saying, we want to see where we stand at the global level. we hope that if it can continue like this, and may be fifa can also have a conversation by saying, for the first time we see three african teams leaving the group phase and going to the round of 16, can we expand the number of slots the african teams are getting. in a continent where 54

countries are only getting four slots is not enough. this year you have zombie a and they are not in the top four in the next four years, then that generation is gone. but if you expand the number two maybe eight teams, then we can have a different conversation and have them compete every year and continue to get more exposure. i think that expanding the format has given us an opportunity to get some very nice stories like columbia, like jamaica being part of the conversations on the global stage. >> how big is the woman's game? how much support does it have in africa? >> there is immense support. the federations are starting to say there could be a goldmine here. you can have the incredible story of morocco. three years ago they did not have a woman's football strategy. but the federation sat down and said if we want to compete globally, we have to do the right thing. they hired a new person who had

championships. gave them the same facilities at the men's team that went to the semifinals of the world cup are using. if anything, they were staying in the same hotel in the league up to the world cup that the men stayed in when they were going to qatar. things like that. having zambia playing friendly games with a team like germany and actually beating germany in the lead up to the world cup. those are the kinds of conversations that we need, but has to get better. we need more teams and more investors and more people that make key decisions in women's football. this means things like getting women's football on television. that means in terms of showing the leagues week in, week out. we've seen the countries doing that. uganda has the women's super league on the television, which is the national federation tv. that helps people continue to see these women play not just once and for years when they go

to the world cup. >> as we said in the beginning, you are a professional footballer, he played in the women's first division in the netherlands. we are talking about the world cup, which is international level, it's getting a lot of attention, what is the situation at the domestic league level. how does your life as a professional footballer compared to your male counterparts? >> the women's world cup is directly related to the domestic leagues as well. the pattern that we see is that we have a woman's world cup or we have these huge international tournaments, whether it be the ua fed cup or the champions league final, and so after events like this take place, which, we have a lot of momentum, a lot of attention, it doesn't necessarily translate to the domestic league. although the domestic leagues are heavily investing, they are

building a professional infrastructure for their players . there's still a huge disparity that does exist. although we are headed in a positive direction, i would still like to see that increased demand fan base infrastructure attention to really growing the women's game at the domestic level and ensuring that it is consistent and sustainable. >> how does the women's game keep the momentum going after this tournament. after the loss world cup, and until the euros last year, there seem to be a frustrating low. >> one of the things to remember is that we shouldn't pay attention to women sport. it shouldn't just be a mega tournament like the olympics or the women's world cup. and i think that the interest in the women's game itself needs to continue. you have, in the finalists in spain and england, you have two of the most exciting, vigor

rating domestic leagues in the world. -- invigorating domestic leagues in the world. teams that are really enthralling. i think we need to look a little closer. i'm in canada and we don't even have a domestic women's league. we have a proposed one and that's really important to continue to support the women's game at the grassroots level is really essential. even if that means supporting an ncaa team or university college team, these are all worker development teams and youth teams, which is really important. those are where the stars come from, those are where the next generations come from. when you speak with players who are advocates, remember, women's athletes often become advocates for women's sports and the growth and sustainability of it. that something men's players don't have to do. i think we should remember to keep supporting out those levels that the product we know is incredible.

the ticket sales, the attention, the broadcast numbers telus that people are heavily invested. i remember at a time when we did get much support. i was in france in 2019 and could not find it anywhere in the stores. i see the growth and i hope that changes here -- that change is here to stay. >> there is growth, money is starting to be invested in certain parts of the world. what more needs to be done, for instance, to get investment into football and places in africa? >> to be honest, it's really -- that we have to change. when we talk about women's football and people talk about we are not able to see these women, we need more broadcast partnerships. in the lead up to the women's world cup, the current one, there were issues with the top five countries in europe not being able to buy the rights.

so those small things affect the growth of the game. yes, we talk about a lot of -- happening around the u.s. for women's champions. these are the big number of fans that went to watch barcelona in england. it's the same thing. but, from a global perspective we need more people to watch women's football week in, week out. that comes around the game. also the decisions from the federation to embrace women's football. it's not a competition. we aren't saying women want to be better than men. it's really, what you invest in the men should be the same as what you invest in the women. we've seen that growth from madrid and manchester united. they invested later like the big boys in the game. by now you can see those two teams are competing up the favorable level. so when you take it to the club level and the rest of the countries across the world,

that's where the competition needs to be had. we talk about equal pay, but it comes from, do we have the same opportunities when it comes to investment. >> can you ever see a time when professional players like you are not only paid as much is your male counterparts, but enjoy the same working conditions add basic support? -- and basic support? >> i am optimistic we will have better infrastructure and opportunities. it's just a matter of time. i do not like to compare men and women's football. women's football has received attention much later than the men's game. i think people are just starting to understand how much impact, how much passion, dedication and drive female athletes generally have both on and off the pitch.

do i think the pay gap will reduce? yes, i do. however, i'm very optimistic that others, not just female athletes, are the ones advocating for this but it's the whole global community that sees the need for female athletes to be at the forefront. >> going back to the challenges you were talking about at the grassroots level, equipment, facilities, coaching, support. what about things like footwear or sportswear manufacturers making enough gear specifically for women rather than churning out unisex staff or stuffer men that women have to make do with? >> one of the important things is the women's game is an incredible product on its own. i agree that comparing it to them inside is not something we should do. in many leagues around the world and in many federations, women's kits aren't available. i live in canada and you are not able to buy a woman's kit, a

national team woman's kit even after they won the olympics in 2020. you look at that and look at what are the opportunities, that something that's really important to say. this is a part of other psychosocial factors. we seen increased injuries in acl ligaments, that's also because of environment, it's not just because of the pressing of the athlete. there's some anything sake resources, facilities. iraq was one of the only federations to provide what they do. the facility outside is one of the only ones in the world, and they are the only league in the world that has two tiers of professional women that are enumerated. there are so many things that's not just about pay, it's about support, broadcast, is it being televised. we know north america, 4% of all broadcast is women sport. that's not a lot, 4%. there are so many leagues, there are so many opportunities.

people need to keep investing. yes, the money numbers when people will argue that the product isn't worth it. women shouldn't be paid equally, but labor and valuing that labor is important. the women's game has skyrocketed and people are willing to pay. in australia, matilda's jerseys have completely outsold the soccer rooms. that's a country where soccer may not -- football may not be the number one sport. it's aussie rules football, but the point is there's a place for this. there's a place for women's football to exist and to thrive. in terms of the other things, the social issues, political issues around the teams, that's an important story. a quick point i want to make, it's not only countries in the global south considered african, asian or south american not being paid, canada is at dispute with its own federation and the u.s. has previously suited to employer. i want to make sure we

understand that not providing resources to women's sport is not just an issue in a global self. >> is the game adequately meeting the health needs of women's players? in thinking in terms of the types of injuries women suffer when they play football as opposed to men. given that sports science research is focused on the male body and not the female body. >> these are conversations that are important for us. thank you for the question because we need researchers, we need the medical world to look into that, why are these female athletes getting these injuries. but also to have open conversations, for example, about menstrual periods. what is the jersey type, what are the sizes of the shorts, are the players comfortable? can we have conversations about sports bras? these are things that when you look around people think it's obvious, but you find that some

of them are playing in bras and not really sports bras. that affects the way they play because you are talking about 90 minutes of a football game. i think the federations and decision-makers in organizations, even if they are activists groups, have to openly talk about this and see how to grow the game because it's not just about pay, pay, pay, it's about things like that. >> there are two specific questions i want to ask you. bear with me. how does the women's game overcome social challenges that exist in many parts of the world? many women involved in the sport have experienced online abuse, for example. >> there's a culture of toxicity. you will have misogynists and people who argue that you can't resolve all issues.

some reason -- regions are specific to the abuse they get or the discrimination women face. whether it's homophobia or anti-muslim sentiment. in iran, muslim women who want to wear a hijab cannot participate. there are so many issues we can discuss about this, but one of the things we need to do is realize and understand that football needs to be accessed safely by women all over the world and see what their needs are, look around and see how they can be supported. the other thing is not to shy away from questions that are really important. whether it's issues involving ministrations or needs of the athletes, these are very specific needs and things important to talk about. whether there has been criticism in the u.s. team and how they navigate at their space, they are a culture, and team culture would be different for someone in england, but you've seen solidarity from all of these players. whether it's facing sexual abuse in the sport, particularly in

haiti, have had to overcome. these are important things that we cannot shy away from the discussions. it's important to recognize and celebrate the joy of the game while addressing the challenges at the same time. >> would you agree to that? >> absolutely. we have to look at both sides of the story. no one is trying to say it's only the positives happening in women's football. when you look at the women's world cup i knew see that a journalist was asking the moroccan captain about lgbtq and if she has any teammates on the team that are playing. this is ahead of the first ever game at the women's world cup. they could've chosen to ask a different question, but that's what they chose to do. there's a lot to talk about. >> as we said at the beginning of the program, you are the captain of afghanistan's women's national site. what is the future of the women's game in afghanistan? where is your team right now? >> unfortunately, like many

people might be aware, since the fall of afghanistan in 2021, we don't have an active national team. the defective government has been women sport participant -- has banned women sport participation among many other bands. that being said, since 2021, the afghanistan women's national team, the players within the country have been evacuated to australia, to portugal and other parts of the world, and players such as myself, who belong to the afghan diaspora that grew up outside of afghanistan, obviously still remain outside of the country. the issue we are facing now is because of the defective government, our football federation, it would not be safe for them to restart women's football. this solution to that would be that fifa, as the governing body of football, needs to intervene and be able to provide a

sustainable plan for us to return to sport in a safe manner and in a way that no one would be affected and in a way that we can ensure the sustainability of our women's program and show that female athletes and afghan women are capable. that is the situation as it remains, and we hope to find a resolution very soon. >> here speaking to women who can cs in afghanistan. women who aspire to play football, they love the game, they look up to you as their hero. what would your message be to them? >> my messages, never lose hope. life is extreme the unpredictable and we've seen it time and time again. i'm optimistic that there are better days ahead, we have to be in this together. i think together we will find a solution to the issues we are facing. >> let's hope so. many thanks indeed to our guests

for taking part in today's discussion. you can see the program again any time by going to the website at al jazeera.com. join us on our facebook page at facebook.com/a.j. inside story. you can join the conversation on twitter. from adrian finighan, thanks for watching, we will see you. ♪

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