02/14/23 02/14/23 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from new york, this is democracy now! >> illegal intrusion airspace of other countries by u.s. balloons is also commonplace. just since last year, the u.s. high-altitude balloons illegally entered chinese airspace more than 10 times without the approval of the relevant chinese authorities. >> we are flying surveillance

balloons over china. i am not aware of any other craft we are flying into chinese airspace. amy: as china accuses the u.s. of flying its own spy balloons over china, we will look at the growing tension between washington and beijing after the biden administration shot down a chinese surveillance balloon and three additional unidentified flying objects in the u.s. and canada. we will also look at how the u.s. is expanding its military footprint in the pacific. then to the bomb train. we go to ohio to look at a devastating train derailment that exposed residents to a slew of toxic chemicals, forcing many from their homes. >> it is important to understand people are suffering in the immediate right now from things going on that are being reported and that people are going to suffer several years from now. amy: all that and more, coming up.

welcome to democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. the death toll from last week's massive earthquakes in turkiye and syria has topped 37,000 as the united nations warns more -- nearly 900,000 earthquake survivors are in urgent need of hot food. 5 million people in syria may have been left homeless by the disaster. on monday, the government said president bashar al-assad had granted aid into northwest syria as rescue crews held out hope of finding a few more survivors trapped beneath collapsed buildings. on monday, a 13-year-old boy in turkiye was pulled from the rubble after 182 hours. the turkish president said more than 8000 people had been saved in similar operations. he praisedorkers as a video it

viral showing thturkish leader boasting in 2019 about granting amnesty to construction companies for violating building standards and millions of sites across turkiye. the cdc is warning teen girls across the u.s. are engulfed in a growing wave of violence and trauma as new data shows there's been an increase in rapes and sexual assaults, as well as record levels of depression and hopelessness. the data is from a 2021 cdc survey conducted on 17,000 high school teenagers where nearly a third said they had seriously considered suicide, up nearly 60% from a decade ago. at least 13% of them said they had attempted suicide in the past year, while almost 15% of the girls surveyed said they'd been sexually assaulted. in east lansing, michigan, a gunman opened fire monday evening on the campus of michigan state university, killing three people and critically injuring five others. students, faculty, and staff were ordered to shelter in place during an hours-long manhunt

that ended when the shooter was discovered dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. police said the 43-year-old gunman had no known filiation to the university. this is msu freshman jack dell. >> my phone started blowing up with texts and calls, "stay safe" and "don't move." i barricaded my door, the front door and then got in my room, barricaded that with my dresser, then locked myself in my closet. amy: in a statement, governor gretchen whitmer said -- "this is a uniquely american problem. too many of us scan rooms for exits when we enter them. we plan who that last or call would go to. we should not, we cannot, accept living like this." meanwhile, in parkland, florida, community members are gathering today for a remembrance ceremony marking the fifth anniversary of the marjory stoneman douglas high school tragedy. it was valentine's day 2018 when a gunman killed 17 people and

injured 17 others. according to the gun violence archive, there have been 67 mass shootings in the united states since the start of the year. that is on average more than one massacre a day. former south carolina governor nikki haley announced she's running for the republican parties presidential nomination in 2024. she served as ambassador under president trump until she quit the post in december 2018. she announced her candidacyn a video posted to cial med today. looks you shouldnow thisbout , don't put upithullies. when youick back, it hurts them more if you are wearing heels. amy: she is a staunch opponent of gun-control who won an a+ rating from the nra and a 2014. the following year, a white supremacist gunman massacred nine african-american worshipers at the historic emmanuel ame

church in charleston. in the wake of the shooting, she called for the confederate battle flag to be removed from the state capital barrooms but that was only after enoous -- grous but th was onlafter ormous backlasby bree newso who sced a fgpolto tear down thelag and act of non-civi disobience- nonvlent civilisobedience. she was arrested and the flag was put back up that day. in ohio, fears of a wider health and environmental disaster are growing after a freight train operated by norfolk southern crashed and released toxic chemicals last week in the community of east palestine near ohio's border with pennsylvania. data released by the environmental protection agency on sunday show the train contained more toxic and carcinogenic chemicals than initially reported. the ohio department of natural resources estimates the spill killed more than 3500 fish in surrounding waterways, chickens have been found dead in their coops, and residents have reported sore throats, burning eyes, and respiratory problems.

we'll have more on the ohio rail disaster later in the broadcast. the world health organization is warning a highly pathogenic variant of avian influenza is increasingly spreading among mammals, raising the prospect it could trigger a pandemic in humans. the h5n1 flu outbreak has killed countless wild birds and millions of farmed poultry, driving up the cost of eggs worldwide. in october, the virus was found circulating among mink on a fur farm in spain. recently, it has been detected in wild mammals, including foxes, coyotes, skunk, bears, mountain lions, and even seals and dolphins. last week, world health organization director-general tedros adhanom ghebreyesus warned health agencies to prepare for the possibility of community spread in humans. >> since it emerged in 1996, we have seen -- transmission.

t the cannot assume it will remain the case. we must prepare for any change in the status quo. as always, people are advised not to touch or collect dead animals but to report them to the local authorities. amy: in guatemala, indigenous human rights defender and presidential hopeful telma cabrera has vowed to fight the decision by guatemala's supreme electoral tribunal to block her and her running mate, former human rights ombudsman jordán rodas, from the ballot in this year's presidential electns. cabrera and rodas, who are members of the leftist political party the movement for the liberation of the peoples, were in washington, d.c., over the weekend to meet with the inter-american commission on human rights following their ban from the elections. they also traveled to new york, where democracy now! spoke with them sunday. i asked them why they believe they're being targeted. >> has indigenous people, this

ratifies what we have always denounced, that guatemala is a corrupt state that has been co-opted by criminals. this is now affecting our right to participate in the presidential election. the problem the state has is the people who support us because there is this push a real structural change in guatemala. amy: that is -- this is jordán rodas, who was forced into exile last year before the end of his term as human rights ombudsman. he faced attacks from the right wing government over his involvement in anti-corrupti efforts. >> the corrupt is terrified of us. they expand the comic sectors and has looted our country for decades or centuries. it benefits them to maintain the status quo of inequality, racism, and corruption. amy: in chile, forensic experts have found famed poet and nobel

prize winner pablo neruda died of poisoning, not cancer, in september 1973 according to his nephew. neruda's sudden death came just 12 days after general augusto pinochet took power in a u.s.-backed military coup that overthrew the democratically elected president salvador allende. pablo neruda was a close friend of allende. neruda's body was exhumed in 2013 after his former driver for decades claimed he was poisoned by a stomach injection administered by doctors under the dictatorship. and former black panther leader and political prisoner marshall eddie conway died monday in long beach, california. his wife dominique conway announced his passing on twitter, saying -- "it is hard to find the words necessary to convey my sense of loss, and the enormous loss the world has experienced with the death of my husband." eddie conway was 76 years old. he was a leading member of the baltimore chapter of the black

panthers. he was convicted in 1971 of killing baltimore police officer donald sager the previous year. but eddie conway maintained his innocence, saying he was set up. for years, conway's supporters campaigned for him to be pardoned. he was released from prison in 2014 after serving 44 years. to see our interviews with eddie conway, visit our website democracynow.org. and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman in new york, joined by democracy now!'s juan gonzález in chicago. hi, juan. juan: hi, amy. welcome to all of our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. we begin today's show looking at u.s.-china relations 10 days after the u.s. shot down a suspected high-altitude chinese surveillance balloon off the coast of south carolina after it had flown across alaska, canada,

and then across the united states. according to the u.s. military's northern command, divers crews have been able to recover significant debris from the site, including sensor and electronic pieces from the structure. meanwhile, china has accused the u.s. of flying surveillance balloons into chinese airspace at least 10 times over the past year -- a claim the biden administration has rejected. this is chinese foreign ministry spokesperson wang wenbin. >> the illegal intrusion of airspace of other countries by u.s. balloons are also commonplace. just since last year, the u.s. high-altitude balloons illegally entered chinese airspace more than 10 times without the approval of the relevant chinese authorities. the first thing the u.s. side should start with a clean site -- clean slate instead of smearing and accusing china. amy: in recent days, the u.s. has also shot down three additional objects flying at a

lower altitude -- one in northern alaska, one over lake huron, and one over central yukon in canada. the biden administration has said little about the three objects leading to rampant speculation. on sunday, a reporter asked the norad commander, the air force general, if the military has ruled out aliens or extraterrestrials. he responded by saying, "i have not ruled out anything at this point." that led to the white house briefing on monday where they said "no indication of aliens or extra-terrestrial activity." democratic congressmember jim himes appeared on meet the press sunday and call on the biden administration to release more information. >> the one thing that is troubling me, i see a pattern as i look at social media this morning, all of the sudden massive speculation about alien invasions and additional chinese action and russian action.

in the absence of information, people's anxiety leads them to potentially destructive areas. i do hope very soon the administration has a lot more information for all of us on what is going on. amy: u.s. senators are scheduled to receive a classified briefing today. we are joined now by jake werner. he is a historian of modern china and a research fellow at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. his new piece for the nation with phil -- bill hartung is titled "war with china is preventable, not inevitable." welcome to democracy now! what we are seeing in this last week, you have these jet fighter planes that are taken down, exploding these surveillance objects in the sky. even people like commerce member himes arson, what are we doing? they don't pose a threat. when was the last time a balloon took down a civilian plane? but the reason this is all

happening is because of this increased anti-china fervor in the united states. can you talk about everything in context? >> what this really shows is that as the offensive threat run china increases, then american leaders are looking for threads everywhere. they are finding things that they had not paid any attention to and identifying those as potential threat and taking preemptive action on them. now we're shooting out objects that previously would have been a nord -- ignored and previously the surveillance capabilities of the united states would have filtered out. with the intrusion of the chinese spy balloon into u.s. airspace, now people are looking for threats everywhere and that is not just around surveillance come just around balloons or

unidentified flying objects, it is around everything goes to people are seeing threats from china everywhere they go and responding in ways that will often be counterproductive. juan: why do you think this is happening? this whole thing about the balloons when so many governments have satellite systems that are doing reconnaissance on and on most daily basis of countries around the world. why this sudden fixation on balloons? >> i think it is unwanted on the part of the biden administration. they were looking to improve relationships with china as the chinese government was looking to improve the relationship with the united states. unfortunately, the wandering of this balloon into the public consciousness gave space to people who are looking very hard for places to attack both the administration and china on in

u.s. politics. that gave them an opening and there was just a massive kind of freak out around the balloon. but you are right. surveillance is something that major companies do to each other on an everyday basis. it is one of the most known facts of international relations. the u.s. is spying on china. china is spying on u.s.. this is something that is just part of international relations. it can be healthy because if major countries know what they're doing, there is less room for miscalculation when it comes to tension and conflict. that does not mean countries should not take prudent steps to guard against it, but it really is all part of the game. it should not be the occasion for massive overreaction or for

demonizing other countries. that goes for china as well. china sort of hitting back at united states, but this is something the united states -- as ever but he knows, the united states has been spying on china for many years and doing so probably more with surveillance satellites than balloons. i think the important thing here is not lose sight of how crucial it is the two most powerful countries in the world avoid a trajectory toward really serious conflict that they were on and the meeting between xi jinping and joe biden last november seems to give a respite from that. it is important to return to that possibility of cooling engines. juan: you say president biden is committed to trying to attempt -- tamp down conflict between the u.s. and china but at the same time, he is remaining extremely ambiguous over the

long-standing e china policy of united states. could you talk about how the biden administration has been dealing with the issue of taiwan as a sore point in u.s.-china relations and what should be done by the administration? >> yeah come on taiwan and on a lot of issues, honestly, there's a bit of contradiction within the administration. on one part they genuinely want to avoid conflict with china and on the other hand they increasingly are pursuing a policy path that is on is guaranteed to create conflict with china. the most explosive potential flashpoint is around taiwan. taiwan is the claim made on taiwan is a part of a bedrock of chinese nationalism. the chinese government will not give it up and iwill go to war if it feels taiwan is being permanently separated from china. the united states deftly does not want that.

but at the same time as this trust has come to characterize every thing about the relationship, the u.s. is pursuing a one-sided deterrence policy against china, trying to convince china not to make any aggressive moves toward taiwan on the basis of simply strengthening the military deterrent on the u.s. side and taiwanese side and allied countries in the region. quite predictably, this is given the chinese leadership the since they are increasingly encircled and besieged by the most powerful country and in the world and the rest of the most powerful countries in the world that all the major powers are gaing up on china and increasingly china is pursuing its own deterrence measures aimed to convince united states and its allies not to infringe chinese interests. this is leading to an escalatory spiral where both sides feel like they're looking out for their own security, both trying to prevent the other side from

taking aggressive actions, and the result is to exacerbate nationalism on both sides, exacerbate distrust on both sides, and lead to a militarization of the relationship that eventually if the trajectory is not changed, eventually will likely lead to conflict. amy: it is frightening when you see this kind of monolithic force pushing toward militarization against china. you have got the republicans and democrats initially agreeing. the republicans are saying, shoot down the balloon and the biden and the democrats are in agreement, and fox and msnbc could not be more aggressive when coming to dealing with china and cover example, the spy satellites when you have china saying we have been watching or spy satellites over us for the last year, at least 10 of them, and we have not raised this as an issue.

but i want to ask him a what about the corporate view of this? going back to last year, bilateral trade between u.s. and china reaches a record-breaking $690 billion. you can have places like apple and other corporations that use china for its cheap labor, wanting the u.s. to go to war with china. >> they certainly don't want conflict. they also don't want toe cut out of the chinese market, which is one of the fastest growing markets in the world. there's a lot of profit be made from china. the business community as a whole is very uneasy about this. but they also have -- they have gotten a clear signal from policymakers in d.c. that is a stand up and say something that they are going to become the

targets for withering attacks from peoe who are charging them with being patriotic and selling out the country. -- unpatriotic and selling out the country. so they're keeping this quiet, indicating an private we would prefer the restriction -- we understand the need for restriction but the restrictions should not be too tight. they are trying to make movement on the edges rather than trying to change the overall foundation of the relationship. the problem with that approach is, of course, as a relationship deteriorates, detiorates, teriorates, if you're just trying to make adjustment on the margins and not doing anything to the overall trajectory and the political logic of conflict in d.c. right now is so powerful, it is so easy to make hay over the issue by accusing her opponent of being weak on china, there is no political incentive for people in d.c. to say, we don't want international

conflict. it is support for the two most powerful countries to have a constructive relationship an work on these usually important issues of shared concern between the two countries, between the two peoples. right now the forces that have any interest in cooperation between the u.s. and china are not articulating that interest effectively in d.c., so people don't feel like there is political upside to pushing back against incitement of international conflict that is really dominant right now. amy: jake werner, thank you for being with his come historian of modern china and a research fellow at the quincy institute for responsible statecraft. we will into your new piece for the nation with bill hartung titled "war with china is preventable, not inevitable." next up, we will speak with david vine, author of "base nation: how u.s. military bases abroad harm america and the world." stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "war" by edwin starr. it was written by eric strong who died in january at the age of 81. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. as we continue to look u.s. china relationships, we turn to the growing u.s. militarization -- military presence in the pacific. the u.s. will be allowed greater access to the south china sea in taiwan as tensions rise between washington and beijing. the deal was announced after defense secretary lloyd austin met philippine president fernand marcus junior in manila. we're joined now by david vine, professor of anthropology at american university. co-founder of the overseas base realignment and closure coalition. his books include "base nation: how u.s. military bases abroad harm america and the world." welcome to democracy now!

this is right in line with what you write about, base nation. talk about that image of lloyd austin, the secretary defense standing with the new president in the philippines, fernand marcos' son, and nothing more u.s. military bases in the philippines, japan being increasingly militarized, what is happening in the south china sea. >> this is precisely what we don't need. let me first say happy valentine's day, happy v-day. that image of lloyd austin announcing the deployment of u.s. forces to four new bases in addition to five u.s. bases where u.s. troops are deployed in the philippines, making a total of nine potentially in a days and months to come, that is precisely the wrong image, precisely the wrong direction the u.s. should be going in.

the united states, the biden administration, and a larger foreign policy elite has hijacked our foreign policy and is currently escalating military tensions with china at precisely the moment we need to be moving in the other direction. we need to be drawing down u.s. military bases in the region while building up our diplomatic presence. there is a good sign in recent days that will give the biden administration some credit for opening a new embassy in the solomon islands in the context of a security deal between the islands and china and now in the last year or so, the united states could have responded militarily. i'm glad they did not and it opens a new embassy or sending a devotional diplomats and this is the approach we need to take. the balloon incident offers a rare opportunity for us to consider really harsh and stark

questions. and that is do we want a war with china? i think the people of united states absolutely do not want war, they are sick of war after 21 years of war launched by the george w. bush administration with its war on terror, the catastrophes and afghanistan i andraq and back to vietnam and southeast asia. we need to move in another direction. i think we are better than the current approach the biden administration group of elites that have dominated u.s. foreign policy for far too long. they have let us down the wrong path and we need to push back on our leaders to choose a different path, of pat of peaceful if challenging -- a path of peaceful if challenging path with china post of doing everything we can to reduce military tensions which most

frighteningly of all raise a real risk of a direct military war between the united states and china that could so easily been completely -- spin completely out of control and a nuclear war that could literally threaten human existence on earth. juan: david vine, say most americans are tired of wars the u.s. has engaged in but at the same time, they are not really cognizant of the extent to which the u.s. military power through these bases is wielded around the world. would you remind us how many u.s.-baseds there are in the world? how does that compare to other countries in terms of having military bases on foreign soil? >> adding yes troops to four new bases in the philippines is unnecessary and wasteful on top of an already astronomically wasteful pentagon budget.

in addition to this, potentially nine u.s. bases in the philippines, the united states already has 313 u.s. military base sites in east asia alone. that is part of a larger global network of around 750 u.s. military bases outside the 50 states and washington, d.c., and that is according to a list the coalition you mentioned that i'm a part of, trans-partisan group of folks that we have been keeping. indeed, the 750 u.s. bases and some 80 countries and colonies around the world is more bases than any nation, empire, or people in world history must've compared to china. i think this helps underline the fact china is not a conventional military threat to the united states and that can't be emphasized enough in this moment of ballooning china fear

mongering. a really racist fear mongering that is fueled by into asian racism and fueling into racism. need to remind people that china is not the threat the soviet union was behind the cold war. china is not about to attack california or hawaii or alaska. china is a threat to neighbors, and have every right to be afraid. but the response to that fear, the response to any military threat that china does pose regionally, is not to escalate militarily. not to build more bases. again, the comparison with china's military presence globally is helpful. china has about eight foreign military bases. one in djibouti and some on human made islands in the south china sea. this, compared to the 750 u.s.

miliry base is outside the 50 states and washington, d.c., shows again how misdirected our priorities are because of this foreign policy that has been in my mind, hijacked by the military distro complex. people are making a killing, often literally, off war and foreign policy elite that has taken a step precisely the wrong path. juan: could you talk as well as that where are the areas of expansion of u.s. military bases? i'm thinking particularly for instance the u.s. footprint in africa, in eastern europe of course, and as a contradiction, the lack of use military presence in latin america because of the resistance of latin american nations to such spaces. >> there is been pushed anywhere you see u.s. military bases. people face daily irritation, a

range of views about u.s. military base is and sometimes they are absolutely welcome. but even in places where u.s. bases are welcome, often there are accidents and crimes that lead to tatian. i think the other thing that is helpful with the balloon incident, he saw a kind of fear mongering and understandable to some fear, even though double imposed no military threat to anyone in the united states, imagine if china were to announce that it was going to build a single base anywhere near the borders of the united states. we saw the reaction to an unarmed balloon that posed no military threat. imagine china was to announce it was going to build a base, for example, in mexico or canada or the caribbean. there would be calls for an immediate military reaction.

meanwhile, the united states is in the process of encircling china with more and more bases. this has been a long-standing buildup dating to the obama administration, the trumpet administration continued it and before, the george w. bush administration. there is also a buildup of bases in recent months in eastern and central europe. in reaction to putin's invasion of ukraine. but the buildup of east asia is one we should be deathly concerned about, i'm sorry to say. this is escalating military tensions with the buildup of bases not just in the philippines, but even larger buildup in okinawa, australia, guam, precisely the moment we need to be moving in another direction. we need to be moving in a direction of building up embassies and diplomats, not bases and troops. to do everything we can to build a cooperative -- again, if

challenging, relationship with coexisting -- peaceful because of students, cooperation to address the threats that everyone in the region and around the world, beginning with the kinds of territorial disputes between china and the philippines, disputes that don't have to be intractable. the u.s. government can play an effective and constructive role in helping to resolve these territorial disputes as well as dealing with the tensions in the relationship with china. moving toward arms treaties, the kinds of treaties we saw during the cold war that helped tamp down military tensions between the soviet union and china. one of the things i'm calling for is the biden administration, and hopefully they have done this already, should be rescheduling the visit of secretary of state antony blinken to china and engaging in a process of series of talks between leaders -- senior

leaders of the two governments, including xi biden. they can work together and we must push them to work together rather than moving in the direction of further military escalation and again, i think we have to be very plain about this. the risk of even accidental military clash between u.s. and chinese forces grows by the day as long as we increase the kinds of military buildup that we have been pursuing for years that is only encouraging china to respond in kind. to build up its military forces, raising the risk of a military confrontation which could easily spiral out of control into a nuclear war between the two most powerful nations on earth that could literally and human existence on earth. amy: david vine, i want to ask because we just have a minute, about something you tweeted yesterday saying that on wednesday, tomorrow, human

rights watch were released any of president reported at crimes against humanity committed by the u.s. and u.k. against the people of diego garcia. can you explain what this is about in just a minute? >> so the united states built a major military base on the island of diego garcia in the middle of the indian ocean in the 1960's and 1970's. in the process, with the help of the british government, forcibly removed the entire indigenous people. they deported them 1200 miles away, left them in impoverished exile, paid them no compensation, gave them no choice about leaving their home step they proceeded to build up a major military base that play key roles in all the u.s. wars in the middle east. the people have been demanding the right to return home, have been demanding proper compensation, and have been ignored almost completely by the united states by successive

administrations. tomorrow, human rights watch will be releasing a major report announcing they are charging both the united states and britain with crimes against humanity for the forced deportation and the suffering the indigenous people experience in exile as well as racial persecution. this is clearly a racist crime where u.s. administration's have avoided the responsibility for far too long. and in addition to moving in a profoundly different direction in terms of our overall foreign policy, a direction of diplomacy and cooperation, the united states government should be finally acknowledging its responsibility for past crimes like that committed against the indigenous people and allowing them to return home and providing proper compensation as well as assisting in the resettlement of the islands including diego garcia. amy: david vine, thank you for being with us, professor of

anthropology at american university. co-founder of the overseas base realignment and closure coalition. author of "the united states of war: a global history of america's endless conflicts, from columbus to the islamic state." and "base nation: how u.s. military bases abroad harm america and the world." next up, bomb train. you might have seen "white noise." sadly, this is the true story of a town in ohio that has been engulfed by toxic fumes. stay with us. ♪♪ [music break]

amy: "freight train" by elizabeth cotton. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with juan gonzalez. we turn to ohio, where residents of east palestine are living the real-life version of the oscar-nominated netflix movie that some helped make when they were extras in that film. this is part of the trailer for "white noise" about a suburban community that faces a so-called "airborne toxic event" after a train wreck causes a chemical leak. >> something that could actually kill somne.

th're cling ian airbneoxicvent. >> will have toeave o home? >> of cose not. how dou know? >> i jus kno >>vacuatell residts. >> have a situation. amy: in a real-life, palestine, ohio, fears of a wider health and environmental disaster are growing after a 150-car freight train operated by norfolk southern derailed and released toxic chemicals last week in the community of east palestine near ohio's border with pennsylvania. data released by the environmental protection agency shows the train contained more toxic and carcinogenic chemicals than initially reported. the epa also said "materials released during the to realm it were observed undetected samples from several areas."

it is estimated this bill killed more than 3500 fish and surrounding waterways, chickens have been found dead in their coops, and residents have reported sore throats, burning eyes, and respiratory problems. a controlled burn of the chemicals following the derailment sent a mushroom cloud of smoke and fire into the air that contained the toxic chemicals. surveillance footage also shows the train on fire about 20 miles before it derailed with zards chemicals as it passed through salem, ohio. evuation order was lifted wednesday saying the air and water are safe? for more, we're joined by three guests. ss grooters is a locomotive engineer and co-chair of railroad workers united. julia rock is an investigative reporter with the lever who has been following the derailment in

ohio. her pieces are headlined "there will be more derailments" and "rail companies blocked safety rules before ohio derailment." but we begin with emily wright, a resident of columbiana county, ohio few miles from the , a derailment and explosion site in east palestine, ohio. she is also the development director for river valley organizing, which is working with residents to call for justice-centered healing. emily, can you describe the scene of what you're calling chemically-driven environmental nightmare? what does it look like, smell like? describe what happened when the train derails and how you had to learn about how you had to protect yourself. >> thank you for having me. one of the things that i really nt people to know is that this event has kind of three parts. so friday night, we had the derailment around 9:00 p.m., between 9:00 and 10:00. the residents that were right at

the site were evacuated. the next day, they evacuated more people on saturday because it was still burning. at this time, we did not know what was on the cars. we heard maybe it was bunnell chloride, may it was 10 cars, maybe it was five. we did not have a great picture of what was on the train. so we were told if you lived outside that mile zone, you're ok. i live a few short miles -- i think on the tracks are five miles in between where i and at and where the derailment was. that you should be ok. they kept saying the same thing ov and over again on the media and in the press conferences. there are no toxins in the air. there e no toxins, don't worry. sunday night, we had heard -- we got an alert on our phones that there have been an additional

explosion and that the fire was out of control again. which it never really was in control. we have pictures and videos that are time stamped that show it was burning and to just be aware. like, there was no evacuation for us, just people that were a little further out from the radius. they were concerned on monday morning that we were going to have an explosion. i will give everybody this much, that the explosion could have been much, much worse. so they announced to everybody they were going to do a control release. i am using air quotes when i say control. they are supposed to do it at 3:30. my daughter was going to be on the bus around that time. i was already experiencing symptoms. i have asthma. i had shortness of breath was concerned from that burn i already had irritation. but when they did the release, they were supposed to do it at 3:30 p.m., they announced in

huge press conference. mike dewine was there. all of the son, they stopped the press conference, evacuated dewine. we are nonpartisan, nonprofit. we work with a lot of -- both sides of the aisle, politicians. we got confirmation he was rushed out of there in the media was given five minutes to get out, that they were pretty sure an explosion was imminent. so they did not do the burner 3:30. they did it two hours later. the problem is, we had forecast high wind gust at 40 hive miles per hour. the hills usually break up the wind but it was announced it was going to be very windy. what they wanted to do was let it off earlier so -- i'm sorry, my voice. so the cloud would go straight up. it would not fan out.

instead, the winds caught it. it went out to four or five counties. so we have ohio, pennsylvania, west virginia all affected by this huge mushroom cloud. i am sure you have seen the pictures. we started in my home come just a few short miles away, expressing nausea, diarrhea. my father has effects from working in the mill. he could not breathe well. i wanted to evacuate. we had family telling us to come but there was this massive shelter-in-place order, "don't be out if you don't have to, shelter in place." and it is same breath we're

hearing on a press conference on the news, "this is out of an extreme abundance of caution, there are no toxins, there are no toxin there are no toxins, there are no toxins." that's what we kept hearing. the only thing i really want to highlight -- i'm sorry if i'm moving on too much, what we found out -- we have been on the ground talking with people. we are in east liverpool, ohio. we have a lot of members that live in and around east palestine. we are bringing on a couple of organizers that are right outside the front door of the derailment. from day one, we have been fed what wasn't the truth. now we find out with this epa report, what, over 10,000 gallons of oil let into the

ground? there are other chemicals. norfolk southern did not report this to the epa in a timely manner. juan: if i can, i would like to bring in ross grooters, locomotive engineer and cochair of rail workers united. your reaction to this derailment and fire? also this porthe fire had started before the derailment? what is the normal procedure that is supposed to occur in situations like this? what is your assessment of this crisis at this moment? >> thank you, juan. ne of this comes as a surprise. there are deep systemic issues. you talk about the normal response to an event like this. this is not a normalvent. we really have not seen anything like it in the united states and

probably not something like it since 2013, as you know, when we had the train jerome and explosion -- derailment and explosion. there are deep systemic problems with the freight railroads right now. those need to be addressed for us to have some sort of a normal response to events like this. until we get at those root causes, the safe issues in the freight-rail system in this country, it is not a matter if these events are going to disrupt and really -- just what the people of east palestine are going through is heart wrenching. that is going to occur again. it is just a matter of when and where. juan: and what are some othe things that need to be addressed? >>ell, athe root of it all is really cutbacks to staffing.

you have companies making obscene amounts of money and they're doi so by adopting operating policies -- there's a whole system for this called precision schedule railroading -- that is designed to maximize profits. what that means is you are cutting to the bone yet another people doing the job. so you have fewer people doing a lot more work faster, you have across-the-board cutbacks on the maintenance of cars, locomotives, track. those things are being done, in many cases, by skeleton crews or outsourced to subcontractors. and then you have increasingly long and heavy trains like the one we saw here where these trains have a greater propensity to derail. they are going to derail more frequently because they are longer and heavier.

lastly, you the railroads themselves who are fighting any kind of regulation, wheer it be train control systems that help manage the signal system or the lobbying efforts we saw to kill electronic breaking, which can make for fer operations and a quicker stop should a derailment like this occur. amy: we're going to go to julia rock in a moment what i wanted to give emily 30 seconds as you said there sometimes coughing, dealing with what you're done with. by the way, i can say only think aboutjuan, his reporting after 9/11, talking about the epa at the time, former governor of new jersey, saying after 9/11 attacks, the air was fine and juan's reporting led to the exposing of that, winning a pulitzer prize. emily, your last 30 seconds on democracy now!, what do you

think is most important for people to understand? >> this is not a conspiracy theory. this is standard operating procedure for norfolk southern. they have 70 million safety violations since 2000 and 21 million in envirmental. 25 million americans live on an oil train path. this is in the poorest parts of america. they continue to do safety issues, lower safety concerns, not worry about us because we are the people that historically cannot fight back. what we're going to do with river valley organizing is we're going to offer free soil and water testing to people so we can figure out what is going on. with the university of pittsburgh and theniversity of kentucky on board to do

long-range studies. after the immediate aftermath, these people are going to need people to advocate for them. i have several family members that have cancer, asthma from these industries. we need them to stop killing us. we told them 10 years ago, we told the epa that bomb trains were going to happen. when several organizations appeal to the epa and it happened. amy: we will clearly come back to you in the coming days because they're so much to talk about. emily wright, right next to east palestine, ohio. ross, in 30 seconds, can you respond to the joint effort by the republicans and democrats, the bill that was signed off by biden, the law prohibiting a real strike and imposing a deal rejected by over have to unionize railroad workers? and then we will go to julia rock.

>> thank you, amy. railroad workers have been fighting through the contract negotiation process for relief from the conditions, which are very stressful and demanding and have been exacerbated by precision schedule railroading and the coorate greed. we have been trying to get relief from that stuff that would certainly help us in respding to and better managing our jobs to ensure this does not happen. but this isn't going to be solved by one labor contract it is syemic and it needs some regulation. it needs regulators to step in and correct this or we're going to continue to see things like what happened in ohio a couple of weeks ago. juan: i like to bring in julia rock, investigative reporter with the lever who has been following the derailment in ohio.

julia, talk about this issue of the railroad companies convincing government officials to repeal brake rules. this is a story about the obama adnistration attempting to require tins carrying hazardous materials as well as crude oil to install much better aking systems on the trains, eltronically-controlled brakes rather than those designed in the civil war era. first, the road indury fought the obama rules. they lobbied hard against them. they argued it would be terrible for business, it would negatily impact the real system, and then when trump came into offic turned around and pushed for trumpo repeal the ake rules the obama administration had enacted. amy: we're talking about rules

that went back to the civil war? they have not been updated? >> so the brakes currently on america's eight trains arair brakes, which function by stopping train cars one a time using preure that travels along the train. that is a braking system that was designed in 1868. amy: astounding. a final comment about what people should understand about east palestine right now? >> this is the result of efforts to the railroad industry to ensure thedo not heo retrofit trains carrying hazardous materials and crude oil with safety features. amy: we want to thank you so much for being with us, julia rock the lever. ross grooters is a locomotive engineer and co-chair of railroad workers united. and emily wright of river valley organizing. that does it for our show.

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hello and welcome to nhk "newsline." i'm catherine kobayashi in new york. ukraine's allies in the west have seen what they say is a new russian offensive. they watched those forces grind out gains in the east. they say they will support the ukrainians in a spring count er counteroffensive. defense officials have gathered at what they say is a critical time for their security. they promise to get behind their