captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> tick, tick, tick. >> whitaker: tonight, on this special edition of "60 minutes presents," "behind bars." >> tick, tick, tick. >> i think americans think, "crime and punishment." you say punishment is not even part of the goal. >> no. >> in a german prison. >> no. >> at all. >> not at all. >> so, life inside prison mirrors life outside, as much as possible. germans call it "normalization." this place is reserved for the worst of the worst: murderers, rapists, career criminals. >> it is unbelievable. you are in for murder and you have a key to your cell. >> you're a professor at one of the finest law schools in the country. is that something that you thought you would be able to do? >> ( laughs ) no!

it makes me laugh, hearing you say it out loud, because there are days where it doesn't make sense to me, and i've lived it. question one is... >> here's why-- professor shon hopwood is a convicted felon who spent 11 years in federal prison. and as a foolish, reckless, 21-year-old in nebraska, listened to a friend with a really bad idea. >> he said, "what do you think about robbing a bank?" most people would've laughed that off, or said, "maybe we need another beer." or anything other than "that sounds like a great idea," which is what i ended up saying. ♪ ♪ >> something unusual happened on the way to the grammy awards two years ago-- an album was nominated from malawi. the artists weren't polished pop stars, but prisoners and guard in a place called zomba; a maximum security prison, so decrepit and overcrowded, it's

been called "the waiting room of hell." ♪ ♪ how could such beautiful music come from such misery? ♪ ♪ we went to malawi to find out. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i can do more to lower my a1c. and i can do it with what's already within me. because my body can still make its own insulin. and once-weekly trulicity activates my body to release it. trulicity is not insulin. it comes in a once-weekly, truly easy-to-use pen. it works 24/7, and you don't have to see or handle a needle. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise. it should not be the first medicine to treat diabetes or for people with type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. do not take trulicity if you have a personal

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phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." phone: for help with ca bookcase. i thought this was t d? isn't that the bed? phone: i'm sorry, i didn't understand. phone: for help with chairs, say "chair." does this mean we're not going out? book-case. see how easy renters insurance can be at geico.com. >> whitaker: good evening. welcome to "60 minpresents." not many i democrats and republicans, but criminal justice reform is one of them.

after 30 years of being tough on crime in the u.s., no other nation incarcerates more of its citizens than we do. we have 5% of the world's population, but 25% of its prisoners. the cost of housing all those inmates? $80 billion a year. as we first reported in 2016, american politicians and prison supervisors are looking for new ideas-- in germany. the main objective of german prisons is rehabilitation, not retribution. germany spends less money on prisons, but gets better results; their recidivism rate is about half the u.s. rate. we wondered if germany had found a key to prison reform, so we visited three german prisons. but our trip started in a small resort town about 100 miles north of berlin. when the weather's warm, the

lakeside town of waren, germany attracts families and tourists. we found bernd junge there with his sister and niece, out for a stroll, eating ice cream sundaes. an innocent scene, if ever there was one. but, junge is a convicted murderer, sentenced to life in prison for a contract killing. he shot a woman to death in cold blood. we spoke with him by the lake. this is part of your sentence? this is part of your punishment? >> bernd junge( translated ): well, this is about being reintegrated into a normal life, and that means rehabilitation and all that. so for me, yes, this is part of it. >> whitaker: this doesn't look much like punishment. >> junge ( translated ): yes, well, that's the german fairy tale. >> whitaker: after 15 years in prison, he's earned weekend leave for good behavior. he's on track for early release. in germany, 75% of lifers are paroled after 20 years or less.

>> joerg jesse: if someone says to himself, it's a german fairy tale, if he doesn't commit any crimes anymore after release, it's okay. he can think about his imprisonment, what he wants. >> whitaker: joerg jesse is a psychologist by training. he's now director of prisons in mecklenburg-western pomerania, a state in north germany along the baltic, about the size of new hampshire. there are rich fields here, brilliant sunsets, and waldeck, the maximum security prison where bernd junge has served his time. should he have a future for himself? he took a life. >> jesse: yes, he should. >> whitaker: he should? >> jesse: he should. >> whitaker: jesse invited us to waldeck to show us how the german system works. >> jesse: the real goal is reintegration into society. train them to find a different way to handle their situation outside, life without further crimes, life without creating new victims, things like that. >> whitaker: where does punishment come in?

>> jesse: the incarceration, the imprisonment itself, is punishment. the loss of freedom, that's it. >> whitaker: i think americans think, "crime and punishment." you say punishment is not even part of the goal of the german prison. >> jesse: no. >> whitaker: at all? >> jesse: not at all. >> whitaker: so, life inside prison mirrors life outside, as much as possible. germans call it "normalization." it starts with small prison populations. low-level offenders get fines or probation. prison is reserved for the worst of the worst: murderers, rapists, career criminals. we were surprised how quiet and peaceful it was inside waldeck. we wondered where all the inmates were. it turns out, they were relaxing outside on this sunny day. this is unbelievable. you're in for murder and you have a key to your cell. cells have doors, not bars. it's for privacy.

inmates can decorate as they please. we saw joerg muehlbach playing video games in his cell. he told us he was convicted of large-scale cocaine trafficking and gun possession. he was sentenced to seven years. compared to cells in the united states, this is quite luxurious. >> joerg muehlbach ( translated ): yes, it is comfortable here. as a prisoner here, it's all right. >> whitaker: he says being separated from his family makes prison hard, not the conditions. he has a private bathroom, and things that would give american prison guards the jitters. you have darts. you've got a letter op you have legs on the table that you could break off and use as a club.ot quite a bit of freedom in here. >> muehlbach ( translated ): gosh, i haven't even thought about that. here, this is normal. >> whitaker: muehlbach's day is normal, too. he gets up and goes to work in this

after his shift, there's r. and r.: darts in the common room, beacvolleyball in thrd. there's a lot to d h ( tranat het?ated ):ochet.pottery,chetin. and in crochet, we make hats, oven mitts, whatever you need. >> whitaker: we visited several german prisons, and were amazed how laid-back everybody seemed at each of them, prisoners and guards. heidering prison, outside berlin, is as clean and bright as a google campus. the prison is surrounded by fences, not walls, so inmates can see the outside world. the prison uniform? street clothes. for the inmate who finds this too stressfure

at old facilities like tegel in berlin, or new ones like heidering, the focus is on humane treatment and rehabilitation. prison guards are key. they're well-paid and highly trained. they spend two years learning psychology, communication skills, conflict management. jesse calls them "calm down" experts. >> jesse: calming down, calming down, calming down. not showing power too much. not showing guns. not showing weapons. >> whitaker: they use solitary confinement sparingly. jesse says there's little violence in german prisons. how do you explain that? >> jesse: if you treat them as if they are your enemy, they will react as enemies. they will react as dangerous. >> whitaker: in fact, many of them are dangerous. we were up there on a row where everyone you ask was in for murder, murder, murder. >> jesse: they're all human beings, and they know a violent manner.

and we do exactly the other way around. "don't be aggressive." show them that there is a differen >> whitaker: the conversation starts right away. it's based on therapy. psychologists make an initial assessment of all new inmates and devise personalized prisonss vocational training and work. inmates who follow the plan earn greater freedoms and early release. >> jesse: we cannot see the sense in just locking peoplep for their whole lives. your prisons will fill up and you'll have to build new and so on, and i think that was the situation in the u.s. >> whitaker: with more than two million inmates in u.s. prisons, more americans are coming to germany seeking solutions. >> american tour: it's like a dorm. this would be a nice dorm room for an ivy league. >> whitaker: we joined u.s.orcet

officials on this ton connecticut governor dannel malloy was part of the group. he was impressed by what he saw. >> dannel malloy: i can tell you, they have a lower crime rate than we do. they have wer recidivism rate than o, spending a lot less money on jails. >> whitaker: in the u.s., we've got much greater access to guns. we've got race as a factor and ethnicity as a factor. directly transferato >> malloy: i think there are many things that are transferable. that doesn't mean that it's a perfect fit.er.hitaker: this doe the same vibe, doesn't feel like the prisons in germany at all. >> john wetzel: little bit more intense, maybe. >> wtaker: little bit more intense. john wetzel is pennsylvania's secretary of corrections. five years ago, he went to germany looking for ideas to improve his prisons. he showed us around graterford, outside philadelphia. it's the largest maximum securi prison in pennsylvania.

almost 3,000 prisoners are packed in here.through anll blo. >>l stop back. apprch he said he was a lowevel dg offend. le prisoner: sometimes, it be dying in their cells, the water inks. diyou smell the water? the water smells like it'sto the choir. i've done as much as i could for-- >> prisoner: i mean, for real,o. >>etzel: yeah? i mean, lo a >> prisoner: it's bad. >> whitaker: wetzel started as a prison guard three decades ago. back in 1980, there were 8,000 inmates in the state. today, there are almost 50,000. physical and sexual assaults are a fact of life. at graterford, there are more than 600 lifers. >> wetzel: pennsylvania's a state where life means life.

around a park eating sunda with your family. >> wker: whetz germany, joerg jesse gave him a tour of ldeck. you were skeptical. >> wetzel: it almost sounded like disneyland. "oh, there's very few inmates. inmates have their own keys and everybody gets along and everything's hunky-dory." i meano's buying that story? not me. visit, wl was buyi it. he started implementing some of the things he saw inermany, like more intensive staff training, greater freedom for inmates with good behavior, and programs to help them re-enter society. we, the american public, called for tougher sentencing, throwing away the key. are we there for this more lenient approach? >> wetzel: i think our culture, we don't want think lenient. we don't want to think soft. we got here by being tough on crime. i think we're getting away from it by being smart on crime. and smart on crime happens to be

more lenient. >> whitaker: sometimes, germans think their prisons are too lenient, but the system is mandated and protected by the country's highest court. there are problems: they have gangs. they have drugs. c raey try but, there are inmates deemed too dangerous to release. they wind up in something at berlin's tegel prison, we met chris templiner., or if, he'll ever get out. >> chris templiner: they think i'm dangerou so what can i say? i don't know. >> whitaker: you did bad things? >> templiner: really bad things, yes. >> whitaker: he wouldn't tell us well-appointed, apartmenkevacy

look around. germany's worst offenders. you expect to be here until yo >> whitaker:ge stuck to earned the freedom to lve prison every day forworke nearby port. you could escape if you wanted to. >> bernd junge: yes. >> whitaker: but you don't? >> junge: no.taker: n nt to be donwith this>> whitakee murderers are housed, locked up 23 hours a day.

than any time in the history of our country, we have the right and left agree that we've-- frankly, screwed up the corrections system for 30 years, and it's time to do something different. it really starts with understanding that, you know, a human being's value isn't diminished by being incarcerated. >> whitaker: what you're talking about requires a huge mind shift on the part of all of us. >> wetzel: it's crossing the grand canyon, is what we're talking about. >> whitaker: since our story first aired, bernd junge earned his release from prison, and so did his fellow inmate joerg muehlbach. a prison supervisor tells us they have stayed out of trouble and are doing well. >> cbs money watch sponsored by lincoln financial, helping you protect those you love most. >> quijano: good evening. the labor department is expected to that the economy added 200,000 jobs last month.

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are prisoners who manage to learn enough about the law while incarcerated to help themselves and other inmates with legal problems. we get letters from themveweek. tonight, we are going to once again introduce you to shon hopwood, who is arguably the most successful jailhouse lawyer

ever, having had one of his cases argued before the u.s. supreme courwh 12-year sentence for armed bank robbery. since his releas h resume as a legal scholar, and been published in top law journals. met him at one of thes premier law schools, where he'sd aste it's a tale oftion as impr. statementsnl yes. on him, or his students, who know that he's a convicted felon, and that less than a decade ago, was an inmate at the federal correctional institution in pekin, illinois.

you're a professor at one of the finest law schools in the country. is that something that you thought you would be able to do? >> shon hopwood: ( laughs ) no! it-- it makes me laugh, hearing you say it out loud, because there are days where it doesn't make sense to me, and i've lived it. so i c sense to hardly anyone else. >> kroft: it's easier as a georw professor than it is for me to imagine you as a bank robber. >> shon hopwood: well, that's because the bank robber's long been dead and gone. >> kroft: hopwood was born here 42 years ago, in the small farming community of david city, nebraska, surrounded by cornfields and cattle. he was a bright, cocky, stubborn mind?n hopwood: i was sho. kid from a solid family, and he i was shocked that the couad hated rules; a good athlete and done something that, you know,oe basketball schsh semester.niversity and partied

he drank himself through a theiown petitions.what is freaks two-year hitch in the navy, then returned to david city working in a feedlot. how much has david city changed? he was broke, unrepentant, and for one of those petitions to be frustrated that things weren't going his way. >> kroft: seth waxman, a so, this is where it started? the united states,asked torgue one night, he got a call from a friend asking him to come down to the local bar for a drink, >>d: he said, "whatturned out b. the fellers case before the supreme cour hopwood would do you aboutbid have, or sainee. work from prison as part of the team. involved, because i was really curious. it seemed, actuay, inconceiz sounik what endepwood: you kno s leof the law could actually write mu b exk for.d been good for wa monthster, weyt the time, which. >> waxman: even for a licensed

federal prisoner, you would say, "wow." case before the e scouting locations, that shon a unanimous decision, and bex yr realized they might actu so this is one of your banks? >> shon hopwood: it is. this is the third bank. solicitor general of the united >> kroft: the idea was t states says that you did a good up very small banks in tiny job writing a brief, that has an towns like gresham, where there was no police presence and impact-- especially when you're little risk of armed surroundn erpris guaars and that confrontation. >> shon hopwood: we wanted to get in and out of the bank as quickly as possible, not hurt amountyou win some more anyone, grab as much money as we could, and run. cases? >> shon hopwood: i did. and that's basically what we did i won ansupremmo in all five bank robberies. >> kroft: were you any good at it? >> shon hopwood: no. i did 11 years in federal prison i don't 000. federal district court cases, kindal k >> kroft: he found a purpose in put out a composite sketch and life, and when ann marie began closing in. metzner, who had once had a high school crush on shon, beganwrite in july 1998, he was apprehended in this omaha hotel, ten months might have se kind of future after his first robbery.

re h shon 00,000 in cashaceable to did you decide you wanted to be a lawyer while you were in prison? the bank i had just robbed, and >> shobut i didn't think i could. multiple guns, and a scanner, and binoculars. >> kroft: they had you?hon hopwt i had had counes me i could noto to law school, and even if i could, i would never get licensed by any of the state bar associations, given my crimes. tentiary iil >> kroft: when he was released was it dangerous? to a halfway house near omaha in >> shon hopwd: 2008, he had never seen an loto do.ot a iphone, never been on thes compr >> kft: he doesn't talk abou illiterate. the things that he witnessed and printing, one ofacle, hsaw antt experienced f prison. he dsn know, and he sees noalue i just a few cpanies in the u.s. reliving them-- except for the job he landed in the safety of briefs for the supreme court. the legal library, which every federal prison is required to andy cockle and his sister trish have. billotte remember that shon >> shon hopwood: and for the ows interview in first six months i worked at the ill-fitting clothes, with a prison law library, i didn't hardly touch the books. rumpled letter from seth waxman and an 11-year gap in his resume. they were big, they were thick, o t hopwood: self-ting. >> andy cockle: we work with attorneys every day, all week long, that are trying to get

their case granted. and none of them do. motivation. and this guy comes out and says i had-- >> trish billotte: two. >> cockle: two of them granted. >> kroft: it all started with a oh, yeah. >> kroft: did you believe him? >> cockle: no. supreme cot help him get his ( laughter ) sentence reduced.him assisting i-- i thoughheelusional. >> kroft: but his story checked out, and they gave him the job. other prisoners with all sorts you're glad you hired him. of cases. >> both: oh, yeah. >> shon hopwood: i spent two >> billotte: it was sad to see months working on my own case, him go. >> kroft: he spent three years researching, and i was never with the cockles in omaha, completing the undergraduate able to get any legal reef degree he'd begun in prison, and myself the entirme i wasn: but r continuing to impress the lawyers he worked with. inma>> shon hopwood: i did. with their help, and against all odds, the university of washington law school took a chance on him. mistakes, and it really cost he won a full scholarship from their clients sometimes, you know, a decade or two in federal prison. foundation and upon graduation, was admitted to the bar. roft: inside the walls at how did you do in law school? pekin, he won the respect ofe ht >> shon hopwood: surprisingly well. >> kroft: you were already a lawyer? >> shon hopwood: well, i mean, it was-- it was a new experience, doing well in school. well enougho >> shon hopwood: i woue sitting in my cell reading a land a psthe united states courf federal reporter, which is a t court in the country.t oflumbt compendium of federal court of appeals cases, and i would justf >> waxn:

it was a novel, just for fun. convicted bank robber was going >> kroft: was it fun? brge on a ry >> shon hopwood: oh, i think the law is fascinating. >> shon hopwood: it was like a surprising in the absolute big puzzle for me. sense? yes.in the context of who shon >> kroft: three years into his prison term, he got an opportunity to show just how hopwood is and where, what he much he'd learned when john fellers, a friend and fellow inmate, asked shon to appeal hi >> kroft: a year later, it led to a highly competitive teaching case and would you file this petition to the supreme court?" fellowship at georgetown law's appellate litigation clinic, i said, "no, absolutely not." where he did so well, the >> kroft: why? faculty awarded him a position >> shon hopwood: his case was as a professor of law. very complex, and i didn't think how hard is it to get a job i could do it. teaching law at georgetown? >> steven goldblatt: it's very t hard. >> kroft: he would spend months >> kroft: professor steven goldblatt is the faculty working day and night on the petition. director for the supreme court it required him to master the institute at georgetown law. facts of the case, understand >> goldblatt: to have somebody who's a credible voice, who actually lived the experience, tify the err made by lawyers and judges inth who understands what it's like to spend a day in prison, much craft an argument in the less1 unusual. language of the t so i think this was a uniqueityr

whom there a no others outwas e. did the supreme court know that the brief had been written by a prisoner? >> shon hopwood: the first hint would've been the fact that its. >> kroft: along wi his oer accomplishments, shon hopwood k law firms in 2003 al go marry that girl from david city, annie metzner, who were using typewriters to knock they have two children. out supreme court briefs.tr a ce are you surprised how this has turned out?nnie hopwood: yeah. ah i had no-- no idea of what the future would hold for us. neither one of us had any clue that this would-- all these 74 were was wri wonderful things would happen. >> krofthopwood's main he ian prison stences for most crimes, and more vocational "sho shon, shon," and what he had copy of th"usa training, drug treatment and today. and itsaid the courtad cr mental health counseling, which are often non-existent. >> shon hopwood: prison is not the place for personal growth. we warehouse people and then we world with very little support, and hope that a miracle happens. >> kroft: but somehow,ll the werehopwoo

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>> whitaker: something unusual happened on the way to the grammy awards two years ago-- an album was nominated from malawi, a small country in southern africa not exactly famous for its music. the artists weren't polished p

guards-- men and women in a place called "zomba," a maximum security prison so decrepit and overcrowded, we heard it referred to as "the waiting room of hell." how could such beautiful music come from such misery? in 2016, anderson cooper went to malawi to find out. ♪ ♪ >> cooper: this is the music that brought us to malawi, one of the least-developed nations on the planet. ♪ ♪ it's a place of staggering beauty. there's vast mountains, lush forests, and a long, idyllic lake. drive through the countryside, however, and you quickly see, poverty is widespread. for malawi's 18 million people, life is full of hardships.

zomba is malawi's only maximum security prison, and the music you're hearing comes from behind these walls. ♪ ♪ the prison was built to hold around 400 inmates. today, there are 2,400 here. ♪ ♪ what's so startling when you walk into the prison yard on a sunday morning, is that everywhere you turn, there is music. ♪ ♪ a cacophony of choirs. ♪ ♪ many here are hardened criminals-- robbers, rapists, murderers. others are casualties of a legal system that can be chaotic and arbitrary, where court files are

routinely lost, and most suspects have no legal representation. ♪ ♪ in a small room off the yard, there's a prison band practicing every day on donated instruments. ♪ ♪ those men in green are guards. they play side by side with inmates. ♪ ♪ ian brennan, an american producer who travels the world recording new music in unlikely places, heard about zomba and, four years ago, flew to malawi to check it out. you're taking a gamble because-- you go to places, you don't necessarily know what's there, right? >> ian brennan: no, no, no. we-- we have no idea. it's a leap of faith every single time. >> cooper: his was not the only leap of faith. officer thomas binamo took one, too. he helped found the prison band ten years ago, and wasn't sure

what to think the day ian brennan showed up. >> thomas binamo ( translated ): i was quite surprised, because i couldn't understand how this guy knew about us. and why would he be interested in our prison? >> cooper: it's not every day a white american knocks on the prison door and says he wants to come in? >> binamo ( translated ): yeah, it's true. it's not every day. >> brennan: what took you so long? >> cooper: brennan saw promise in this prison, and the possibility of an album. so, he set up his microphones and asked anyone interested to write and sing songs about their lives. men and women. inmates and guards. it was something most had never done before. ♪ ♪ what were you hoping to find? >> brennan: well-- you know, the thing we look for everywhere, which is, you know, music that resonates with us.

this is what moves me, and hopefully it'll move someone else. >> cooper: and when you hear it, you know it. >> brennan: yeah. you feel it, usually. >> cooper: even if you don't understand the words right away? >> brennan: oh, it's better when you don't understand the words. because when you don't understand the words, you have to listen to what somebody means, not what they're saying. and if they mean it. ♪ ♪ >> cooper: officer binamo was reluctant to write and sing about his life, but when he did, ian brennan knew his music would be on the album. ♪ ♪ just listen to what he came up with one morning when we were there-- a softly-sung ballad about the sudden death of his wife. ♪ ♪ "you left without saying goodbye," he sings. "you left behind the children, too. they no longer cry."

♪ ♪ >> brennan: he writes songs and plays as beautifully as someone can. he's reached that level of transcendence where it can't be better than it is. it just is. it's something that just hits you. ♪ ♪ >> cooper: to fully appreciate the music here, you have to see the misery. but when we arrived at zomba, authorities didn't want us to show what life is like for the prisoners. so, much of what we filmed, we had to record secretly, without the guards knowing. inmates in zomba are fed just one meal a day, a small bowl of gruel made out of corn flour. the menu, we're told, rarely changes. on good days, they get a few beans; on bad days, inmates say, there's no food at all. chikondi salanje sang the album nominated for a grammy. he was doing time for burglary. do you eat meat? chicken, beef?

>> ( laughs ) >> cooper: you're laughing. that's not good. when was the last time you had meat? >> chikondi salanje: 2014. 25 december. >> cooper: two and a half years ago? on christmas day? >> salanje: yeah. >> cooper: it's not just the lack of food. zomba is so overcrowded, prisoners say they only have enough room in their cells to sleep wedged against one another lying on their sides. stefano nyirenda also sang on the album. so you're sleeping on your side? >> stefano nyirenda ( translated ): when you want to turn, you have to do it together. >> cooper: right next to each other? how do you sleep? >> nyirenda ( translated ): we just sleep. we have no choice. >> cooper: stefano is in for robbery, and he is h.i.v.- positive, as are around a quarter of zomba's inmates. they occasionally get visits

from an italian nun, sister anna tommasi, who runs a small charity providing some food and legal aid to prisoners. if you were writing a postcard to somebody, who had never been to this prison, how would you describe it here? >> sister anna tommasi: oh. i think it's impossible for somebody outside to get. there are no words which could explain, because-- >> cooper: what life is like here? >> sister tommasi: yes. i think-- before you came, three days ago, if i had written anything, would-- do you think you could have had a clue? >> cooper: no. >> sister tommasi: sometimes, i call it, it's the waiting room of hell. >> cooper: that's what this prison is like, sometimes? >> sister tommasi: yeah. >> cooper: if it is the waiting room of hell, salvation for chikondi salanje comes from music. when the music stops, that's when you realize you're in prison? >> salanje ( translated ): when we're singing, the walls are no longer there. but when we stop, the walls return, and then we're back to counting the bricks ain. ♪ ♪

>> cooper: chikondi wouldn't have to count the bricks much longer. after five years here, he was about to get released. and when we were there, recorded a new song for ian brennan. it's about leaving prison, and his fears of life as a free man. "don't call me a criminal," he sings. "when i get home, they'll reject me. when something goes missing, they'll accuse me of stealing. it hurts badly when you call me a criminal." ♪ ♪ in the men's section of this prison, there are rooms where prisoners take classes taught by inmates and guards. there are also two small libraries where they pour over faded books, and a rundown computer room. but in the women's section, there is no library, no computers.

♪ ♪ there isittle else, but music. ♪ ♪ until ian brennan came along, the women didn't have their own instruments, and they couldn't understand why he was interested in listening to their singing at all. >> brennan: they really-- were-- believed that they were not singers or songwriters. i mean, they were prty and-- and stment-- i-- i was getting pretty close to feeling like, "well, you know, we-- we tried--" one person stepped forward and said, "i've got a song." ♪ ♪ and the minute she did that, they literally lined up. ♪ ♪ >> cooper: rhoda mtemang'ombe was one of those women who stepped forward. the song she wrote for the zomba prison album is called "i am alone." ♪ ♪ what does that mean?

>> rhoda mtemang'ombe ( translated ): i have no parents. i have no husband. and i'm here in prison. so i realize there's no one who can help me. so i ask god to help me. he's the only one who can guide me across this huge river. >> cooper: rhoda is serving a life sentence here in zomba. she's in for murder.glorifying ? >> brennan: no. it's humanizing them-- >> cooper: humanizing----not glg them, at all, right? they've committed crimes. many of them have learned from their experiences. this is about humanizing individuals-- and that's for the benefit, not of them; that's for the benefit of the listener. >> cooper: the album ian brennan recorded at zomba did not end up winning the grammy, and it hasn't turned a profit, either. brennan has paid the musicians, and they have a contract to receive more money if there are future earnings. when he showed up at zomba with

his wife, marilena, to present the prisoners with some gifts and their grammy nomation certificate, it was cause enough for celebration... ♪ ♪ ...though some of the singers, like stephano nyrenda, still had questions about what a grammy award really was. >> nyrenda ( translated ): can i ask a little question? >> cooper: yeah, of course. >> nyrenda ( translated ): this trophy, does it have any money inside of it, or i >> cooper: it's just a token, there's no money inside the-- inside the award. nyrenda: ( la) >> cooper: being nominated for a grammy has not changed life for the inmates inside zomba... ♪ ♪ ...or for guards like thomas binamo, living just outside the prison walls. but they are still writing music, and they have released

another album. ♪ ♪ it's called "i will not stop singing." ♪ ♪ inside this prison, it's the onlyromise they have the power to keep. ♪ ♪ >> in mali,oad music the tale, go tod food. 60minutesovertime.com. sponsored by prevnar 13. for pneumococcal pneumonia creasek that can take yoou even if you're healthy. pneumococcal pneumonia is a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that in severe cases can lead to hospitalization.

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