wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. now you won't miss a thing. the xfinity 10g network. made for streaming. ♪ amna: good evening. i'm amna nawaz. geoff bennett is away. on the “newshour” tonight -- the supreme court weighs possible immunity for donald trump while the former president's hush money trial continues. a new york appeals court overturns the rape conviction of former film producer harvey

weinstein, and two years into russia's bombardment of kharkiv, we report from ukraine's second largest city as they struggle to hold off russia's advance. >> the goal of the russians is to destroy the sovereignty of ukraine. kharkiv is one of the pillars of ukraine. ♪ >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- ♪ >> moving our economy for 160

years, bnsf, the engine that connects us. ♪ >> certified financial planner professional souls -- professionals are proud to support pbs newshour. more information at let's make a plan.org. >> the kendeda fund, committed to transformative work through investments in leaders. carnegie corporation of new york, working to reduce political polarization to support for education, democracy, and peace. more information at carnegie.org. and with the ongoing support of these individuals and institutions. ♪

this program was made possible by the corporation for public broadcasting at a by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. amna: welcome to the “newshour”" on the very last day of arguments, the us supreme court heard debate over one of its most consequential cases -- whether a former president is immune from prosecution for official actions taken while in office. outside the court this morning, protesters gathered dressed as kangaroos and holding signs reading things like “trump is not immune.” inside, arguments were heard on an appeal brought by former president donald trump, who's being prosecuted by special counsel jack smith for attempting to overthrow the results of the 2020 election. john yang is here now in studio

with more. >> amna, it was a big day for former president trump in a number of courts -- in addition to the nearly three hours of oral arguments in his immunity case at the supreme court, a grand jury in arizona indicted several of his closest allies, for allegedly trying to subvert the 2020 election. following all of this is the “newshour's” william brangham, and our supreme court analyst marcia coyle. they were both at the supreme court this morning. remind us the basics. what is president's argument and the response? >> very simply, president trump is asking the court to say that a former president has absolute immunity for conduct involving his or her official acts, and that that immunity stretches all the way to the outer perimeter of his office. and he's looking to certain clauses in the constitution and certain precedents to bolster that argument, but the government is saying basically there is no immunity clause in the constitution. it does not extend to the president's official acts.

although the government said today there is a small core group of powers that are in article two of the constitution, like the pardon power or the veto power that are off limits to criminal law. >> william, the justices spent a lot of time today distinguishing or exploring how to distinguish between a private act and a public act. and we've got justice elena kagan, posing a hypothetical to trump's attorney. >> he was the president, he is the commander-in-chief. he talks to his generals all the time and he told the generals, i don't feel like leaving office. i went to stage a coup. >> if it is an official act there needs to be -- >> is it an official act? >> in the way that you have described that hypothetical, it

could well be. it is a fact specific context. >> that answer sounds like to me it is an official act, but it sure sounds bad, does it not? >> william, why is this question so important? >> as marsha was just describing this is trying to delineate what's prosecutable and what is not and a private act, one that has nothing to do with your official duties as president. if it's criminal, you can be prosecuted. i mean, if you're caught dealing narcotics out of the white house, no one's going to argue that that should not be prosecuted. an official public act is very different than that's what the heart of this case was all about. and this gets to the heart of trump's argument, which is that in all of the things that the doj alleges he was doing that they argue as a conspiracy to subvert the election, he says, no, that was just part of my talking to the department of justice, talking to state electoral officials to root out any potential fraud that we've learned.

and that's not illegal first, and because i was doing it as president, i shouldn't be immune from it. and so that is the argument they've been making and that's where the fight today really rested. >> marsha, what else with the justices concerned about? >> there was some concern that the criminal laws might be used by political opponents of former presidents to go after them. for decisions they made or acts they took. there was concern that residents -- presidents or knowing that there's no immunity might actually pardon themselves for everything before they leave office. but most importantly, i think there was concern about whether there would be a chilling effect on a president doing his or her duties, if there is no immunity at all for official acts. >> and two justices, samuel alito, a conservative and justice ketanji brown jackson one of the liberals sort of talked about this at very different viewpoints. >> very different viewpoints.

>> if an incumbent loses a hotly contested election knows that a real possibility is not that the president will be able to go off into a peaceful retirement, but that the president may be bitterly prosecuted by a bitter opponent, will that not lead us into a cycle that destabilizes the functioning of our country as a democracy? >> i think it is exactly the opposite, justice alito. there is an appropriate way to challenge things through the courts. that has been the nation's experience. >> you seem to worry about the president being chilled. i think we would have a significant opposition problem if the president was not shield -- chilled. the most powerful person in the world with the reduced amount of authority could go into office

knowing that there would be no potential penalty for committing crimes, i am trying to understand what that disincentive is from turning the oval office into the seat of criminal activity in this country? >> marsha, what is next? >> well, a decision at some point. my sense overall was that the court doesn't seem inclined to buy mr. trump's argument for absolute immunity. and if that's the case, and they start trying to delineate, as william said, between official acts and private acts, what kinds of tests should be applied to do that? they may well send it back to the lower courts to apply it to mr. trump's situation. now are the hardest cases that are argued in april, generally aren't decided until the end of the term which would be late june, maybe even early july. but the supreme court sets its own schedule. and there's been a lot of talk

, discussion briefs, urging the court to act quickly here so that the trial may get underway at some point before the election. so i think we just have to wait now and see what happens. >> and, william, what does that timing? what does it potentially do to former president trump's trial? >> well as marcia is saying, it's all in the matter of not just how the court rules but when they rule because they could still rule in trump's favor, and so you do not have blanket immunity as you're arguing, but when they issue that ruling, whether they push it back down to the lower courts or whether they just take a long time. if you look at the calendar if they rule what the end of june, early july judge tanya chunkin has said her case needs about three months before that trial could start for lawyers to catch up on motions and things like that. if that starts three months later that is pushing that trial date right at the heart of the election, perhaps is october or november will be a great deal of pressure on her to not run an election, not run a case right in the middle of an election.

>> i went to ask you about the indictment at arizona we mentioned in the introduction. a grand jury in arizona returned charges late yesterday against 18 trump allies for conspiring to overturn the 2020 election results with a fake electoral scheme. they include former chief of staff mark meadows, attorneys, rudy giuliani and john eastman and the indictment refers to trump as unindicted co conspirator number one. here's arizona attorney general chris males. >> the scheme had it succeeded would've deprived arizona voters the right strike their votes counted for their chosen president. it would've made the right to vote winning this. >> so william, what exactly are they charged with doing? >> so this is 18 people who are charged with conspiracy fraud and forgery, just as you mentioned, which is all going back to their alleged efforts to deny the fact that joe biden won arizona and donald trump did not

, it's the seven trump aides and lawyers that you mentioned, but also 11 of these other people who signed up to be what we've now called fake electors. these are people who knew that trump had not won but they stood forward and signed documents saying we will go to washington dc and cast arizona's electoral votes for donald trump, which he did not win, and so they are being charged with part of being part of this scheme. as you mentioned, trump is not named in this charge. but arizona has now joined four other states that are pursuing similar cases like this at the local level. >> william branham, marcia coyle, thank you very much. ♪ stephanie: donald's legal challenges also start our day's avenues. at his hush money trial in new york a former tabloid publisher

offered more details about how he buried news in 2016 to protect then-candidate trump. david pecker described how he'd catch-and-kill stories. one involved a former playboy model who claimed she had an affair with trump. also today prosecutors said trump violated a gag order four more times. that brings the total to 15. the judge has not yet ruled on the matter. the u.s. and 17 other nations have issued a joint appeal for hamas to release the roughly 130 hostages, still believed to be held by the group. the statement insisted that "the deal on the table to release the hostages would bring an immediate and prolonged ceasefire in gaza." hamas said it would not be influenced by the appeal. it comes a day after hamas released an undated video of american-israeli hostage, hersh goldberg-polin. today, the state department said the video underscores the urgency of reaching an agreement. >> it is high time that every hostage be released, there has

been a deal on the table that hamas continues to move the goal posts for. and so we would stress the dire circumstance and the dire importance for this to be done and to be done so immediately. >> also today, a hamas official told "the associated press" that the group would agree to a truce -- if a palestinian state is established. the israeli government has said it's opposed to such a scenario. meanwhile, israeli airstrikes killed at least six people in te southern city of rafah. the early morning attacks reduced three houses to rubble. at least two children and a local journalist were reported among the dead. and in washington, mourners gathered at the national cathedral to honor seven world central kitchen aid workers, killed in gaza earlier this month by a series of israeli airstikes. the organization's founder, chef jose andres said they

represented the best of humanity. in haiti, ariel henry has resigned as prime minister -- after months of gang violence. a nine-member transitional council is now tasked with selecting a new leader and cabinet. the interim prime minister -- a hold-over from henry's government -- said the crisis has gone on far too long. >> haiti, our country, is at a crossroads in the search for solutions to overcome this multidimensional political crisis, the consequences of which are detrimental to the population, to property, and both public and private infrastructures. stephanie: the white house called the council a "critical step" toward free and fair elections in haiti. secretary of state antony blinken is pushing chinese officials on what the u.s. considers unfair trade practices. in the financial hub of shanghai, blinken pressed the city's top official on the need

for a quote level playing field. asked about blinken's comments, chinese foreign ministry spokesperson wang wenbin stood by his nation's economic policies. >> china has always carried out economic and trade cooperation in accordance with the principles of the market, and has always been firmly supportive of the multilateral trading system, and fully implements the rules of the world trade organization. stephanie: venice has become the first city in the world to charge an entrance fee for day-tourists. those arriving between 8:30 an and 4:00 p.m. will have to pay roughly $5 dollars on peak days. it's part of a pilot program to help curb overtourism. single-day visitors make up the majority of the crowds in venice. hundreds of locals protested the new fees today. they say it won't discourage mass tourism. back in this country the federal communications commission voted to reinstate obama era net neutrality rules today. they treat broadband service

like utility similar to funds in water. the regulations were overturned during the trump administration. the fcc chairman stressed the importance of the ruling saying every consumer deserves internet access that is fast, open, and fair. in the baltimore a cargo ship exited the harbor today for the first time since the francis scott key bridge collapse last month. a total of five stranded vessels are expected to pass through the new deepwater channel temporarily constructed in the aftermath of the fatal accident. tennessee lawmakers approved a bill today criminalizing adults who help minors receive gender affirming care without parental consent. violations would range from sharing informational websites to helping minors travel out of state for care. the proposal, the first of its kind in the nation, is expected to be signed by the republican governor. the us economy grew at its slowest pace in two years to start 2024, as consumer spending

pulled back. the commerce department reported gdp growth of 1.6 percent in the first quarter, compared to the same period last year. that's less than expected. and it is down from eight 3.4% growth rate in the final months of 2023. protests against israel's war in gaza spread across college campuses nationwide. the epa unveils new rules curtailing emissions from coal power plants, and a new book on the groundbreaking career of barbara walters. ♪ >> this is the pbs newshour from weta studios and washington, d.c. and in the west from the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. amna: new york's highest court has overturned harvey weinstein's 2020 rape conviction -- a stunning reversal in the landmark case of the “me-too"

movement. in a 4-3 decision, the court of appeals said the trial judge's decision to allow witnesses to claim weinstein assaulted them, but not include those witnesses' allegations in the charges, precluded weinstein from having a fair trial. weinstein's lawyers commended the court earlier today for what they called a "tremendous victory" for criminal defendants. >> there are some people who are very unpopular in our society. but we still have to apply the law fairly to them. and in this courthouse behind us at that trial, the law was not applied fairly to harvey weinstein. amna: weinstein is currently being held in an upstate new york prison. for more on what this reversal means for him, and why the case unfolded as it did, i'm joined by jodi kantor -- new york times investigative reporter who broke the story of mr. weinstein's sex crimes. you and your colleague or broker that story back in 2017. no one is followed it more

closely. did today's decision surprised you? >> no, this is been brewing from a long time. from the start megan and i would never really sure how harvey weinstein would treated by the criminal justice system, because when we think of the allegations against him, there are so many, those women could fill an entire courtroom by themselves, but a lot of them were not eligible to stand at the center of the new york trial. a lot of the allegations were about sexual harassment, which is not a crime where they passed the statute of limitations were did not take to new york, so the new york trial was only about two women, both of whom had consensual sex with harvey weinstein in addition to the acts that they described, so prosecutors brought in additional witnesses to bolster their case, but the complaint against them was always the

classic criminal law complaint saying the facts presented in that courtroom need to be relevant to the charges in the trial, and that in fact is the basis on which the conviction was overturned. amna: after your initial reporting more than 100 women came forward with similar allegations of assault or harassment by weinstein. today one of the survivors, ashley judd, reacted. >> this today is an act of institutional betrayal. and our institutions betray survivors of male sexual violence. i stand shoulder to shoulder with women who have bloody knees, because male sexual violence may knock us down, but we get right back up. amna: have you heard this similar sentiment from other survivors? >> i called ashley today when i first heard the news, and i was the one to share it with her.

she found it disappointing and upsetting, but she was unwavering and said we know what really happened, and, yes, i have heard similar sentiments from weinstein's alleged victims into special upset for the women who stood up and went through the difficulty of a criminal trial and provided that extra testimony, which of the court has no wiped away, but interestingly i should tell you some of the strongest objections were from some of the appellate judges. it is a group of judges who had a painful debate. the majority only won by 1 vote, and some of the judges in the minority protested and saying, what are you doing? you are disregarding the progress we have made in learning how to prosecute sex crimes? amna: what does this mean for weinstein himself?

he is still imprisoned in new york. what do we know about his health and his future based on this decision? >> he is not a free man, because he was also convicted in los angeles, so soon he is going to be moved to california to start serving out that sentence. meanwhile, that conviction is being appealed like his lawyers next month on the same basis the new york case was overturned. whether it will matter, i don't know. california law is a little clearer and firmer on the use of those witnesses, that i should tell you the lawyer litigating that case is the same attorney who was able to get bill cosby's conviction thrown out. amna: the district attorney's office in new york said they will attempt to retry the case, so what is the timeline look like for that? >> it is confusing and is a

tough decision for them, because of the case is so culturally important in mean so many people that you leave that alone, to let it stand here were be very unsatisfying, but to try to go back to the beginning, do this again and get those women to tell those painful stories in court, i am not exactly sure what is going to be possible. amna: that is jody kantor who broke the story of harvey weinstein's sex crimes back in 2017. thank you for joining us today. we appreciated. -- appreciate it. ♪ amna: campus protests against israel's war in gaza are continuing to grow across the u.s. the university of southern california announced today today it is canceling its main

commencement ceremony next month. encampments are now in place in at least 20 colleges. and hundreds of demonstrators have been arrested in the last several days at multiple schools, including the university of texas, ohio state and emory university. amid police confrontations, multiple arrests, and large demonstrations -- emory university today became the latest flashpoint in a wave of pro-palestinian protests on college campuses. early this morning, at boston's emerson university violence erupted as police cleared a student encampment. more than 100 were arrested. authorities say 4 officers were injured. >> get your hands off. amna: that followed this clash at the university of southern california, officers there say protesters refused to remove their encampments - the protesters say they were provoked. >> what we just saw was an act

of usc acting aggressively and failing to defend and in fact, being the aggressor against its students. amna: by nightfall, more than 90 people were taken into custody. these incidents are just the latest in a series of pro-palestinian demonstrations, unfolding on campuses from coast to coast. and beyond - including universities in paris, cairo, and sydney. >> divest, we will not stop, we will not rest. amna: some in the us say they want their universities to cut financial ties to israel. >> we want the university to disclose its financial holdings and divest from its relationships with financial institutions. and we want the university to recognize and acknowledge to its student body that there is a genocide happening to our families in gaza. amna: officials at columbia university yesterday extended talks with demonstrators to clear the campus. where that same afternoon, house speaker mike johnson was booed

after his remarks. >> the cherished traditions of this university are being overtaken right now by radical and extreme ideologies. they place a target on the backs of jewish students in the united states and here on this campus. amna: jewish students across the country have said they feel unsafe amid the demonstrations, and after being targeted by hate speech and anti-semitic symbols. but, some are taking part in the protests. which continue to spread to more campuses, and show no signs of ending soon. amna: the protests have also reached vanderbilt university, in nashville, tennessee - where dozens of students have faced suspension, expulsion, and even arrest for their participation in recent protests on campus. joining us now is vanderbilt university chancellor daniel diermeier to discuss his school's approach, which he outlined in a recent wall street journal op-ed. thank you for joining us. before we get into your school's

specific experience, i want to get a reaction to how quickly and widely these protested spread across campus. >> why do we have seen in the last week or two is that these issues and protests have intensified, but we have had them for the last six months or so. amna: vanderbilt has been among those that have seen their own protests. there was a late march incident, 27 students forced their way into the close administration building. i understand i campus security officer was injured. most of the students had to be escorted out and four were arrested. help us understand the line for you. why were the students arrested and some expelled? >> overall things on campus have done very well. they have had to vigils, in-depth discussions. we had a passover celebration a few days ago with 400 students on our mainline and some

students and protesters on both sides, we have had displays of the victims in gaza, displays of the hostages, so all of that is going well, but a month ago we had a small group of students that a force their way into a closed building, an administrative building. they ran over a security officer and tried to get into my office. they tried to push over some of my staff there but did not succeed, and then set down in the hallway, and after a few hours we told them this is inconsistent with university policy, that this is disruptive conduct. we then had three of the students arrested a red push over the police officer and we had one student arrested would smash the window, and the other students left on their own accord. amna: so the line for you is the physical violence part of it.

you will find with students entering and sitting in and protesting and other words? >> the issue for us is when you were disrupting diversity operations. certainly when you are pushing away into a closed building and injuring a public safety officer that line has been crossed. critical line for us is are you protesting and making your voices heard or engaging in disruptive conduct? for example, we would not allow them to enter a classroom with a megaphone and disrupt the class, so we can come in many different forms. amna: you said in your op-ed free speech is alive and well in vanderbilt, but there was a line by several members of your faculty that disputes of that and says that the university has been punitive, they say the rule seem arbitrary enter criterion that protests must not disrupt operations is prodigiously vague

and expensive. >> i think that this particular issue has nothing to do with free speech. as i mentioned before, there have been many expressions on campus. a big issue for us is that in this particular case of the people force their way into a construction building and injured a police officer. amna: this aligned that you draw up that protests should not disrupt university operations, your opposition says that is too vague and expensive. many would say the purpose of protests is to disrupt. >> the purpose of protesters to make your voices heard. i don't think the purpose of protests is to injure members of staff or disrupt classes. amna: one of the things the students were asking for is a student led vote asking for the university to divest itself are financial ties to israel.

you did not allow that vote, that referendum to move forward, which lead students to say that their free speech is being violated, so why not allow them to discuss that? >> the university is based on three principles, free speech, neutrality, which means the university will not take policy issues unless they materially affect the university, and the third is civil discourse, which means we treat each other with respect, and when our students come on campus they sign a community created where they affirmed their commitment to the last value of civil discourse. the students wanted to have a referendum to use student government funds to boycott any firms that had connections to israel, and that in tennessee is against the law. even devote itself would have put our funding at risk, so was a consequence of that we did not

allow the vote because it is inconsistent with tennessee state law, but the calling of the boycott of israel is also inconsistent with our stand on institutional neutrality. amna: if you believe you and other leaders are handling these protests well, why do you think the protests and objections are spreading as rapidly as they are ? is there a chance that you are not curing the concerns of your students in the way they feel they need to be heard? >> i need to distinguish between what is happening on my campus. on my campus of was an isolated incident that involved 30 students. what other universities to another handler that will depend on their context. our approach is been we have been a very clear about our principles and that we will enforce those principles, and that is the way we have handled the situation. amna: that is the vendor mill --

vanderbilt chancellor joining us tonight. thank you for your time. ♪ amna: in recent weeks, russia has ramped up its airstrikes on kharkiv, in eastern ukraine -- a city already facing nonstop bombing since the full-scale invasion more than two years ago. this latest campaign has left the 1.3 million residents of ukraine's second-largest city worried about what comes next as the war reaches a critical juncture. my colleagues and i traveled to kharkiv when we were in ukraine last week, to file this report. despite russia's relentless attempts to derail daily life the city carries on. less than 20 miles from the russian border, shops open daily for business, walls are

graffitied with local pride and fluttering ukrainian flags line the blocks. even the metro still runs on time, but down here commuters aren't alone. since last september, school children have been attending class inside kharkiv's subway tunnels. it's one of the few places they're safe from russia's bombing campaign that's only intensified in recent weeks. 6 year old yulia is one of nearly 800 kids at this station. do you know why you're in school down here in the subway? >> because there is a war. >> there's a war. and what does that mean? >> it's where the rockets go. it's like somebody's playing a drum, but a very loud one. when you hit something, it's gone. amna: classrooms below ground are nearly identical to the ones

above. students build legos at playtime, practice their needlework, honed their english and solve math problems, sometimes with a little help. immediately after russia's full-scale invasion in february 2022, schools closed and classes went online. since then, more than 60 percent of the city's educational facilities have been damaged. for the youngest students, this school is the only one they've ever known. >> what's your name? ivana, it's so nice to meet you. can you tell me your favorite thing about school? >> the blackboard. >> you like the blackboard? >> yes. >> your english is so good. can you draw us something to take as a memory? so beautiful!

amna: but even below ground, the war above looms, especially for kids with parents on the front lines. >> war is when people are dying, but our military is saving them. >> what's the first thing that you want to do with your papa when he comes home? >> my papa will come back when it's my birthday and i just want papa to always be with us. amna: and older students, like 11-year-old, 6th grader lisa, remember well what life was like before. >> do you miss the way school used to be? >> yeah, i miss my school. i want to go back to my old school because it's much better there. the subway school is fine, but i want to go back to the school where i left things two years ago. amna: more than 2000 students go to school at five underground locations funded by the city -- with over 500 teachers, psychologists and medical staff on site. just a fraction of the 56,000

students who remain in kharkiv, but organizers say it's a start. kharkiv city education official hanna zaykina says few believed this project was possible. but the school was built in a month. >> children need socialization so that they feel like they are part of ukraine. so that they can share their successes not only through a computer screen, but with each other. holding each other's hands, interacting, facing the reality of war together. >> not only did they build these air ducts to pump in fresh air for the kids from outside, they also sound proofed the facility, so the kids don't hear any explosions, and not even the air sirens. amna: since the first days of war, those sirens have been ringing at a terrible pace, more than 5 times a day in kharkiv. russian forces reached the city's outskirts after the initial invasion only to be repelled by ukrainian troops.

an incessant and unflinching air campaign began - including this march 2022 hit on a central government building. today, it bears a quote from ukraine's 19th-century hero poet, keep fighting, you are sure to win. this month, strikes on residential areas killed at least 8 people. others knocked out power plants, leading to rolling blackouts for much of the region. and despite quick clean-up efforts, the city remains scarred - once-vibrant blocks are now dotted with boarded up windows, piles of rubble, and buildings and ruin. roman semenukha is the region's deputy governor. >> why do you think kharkiv is such a target for the russians? >> the goal of the russians is to destroy the sovereignty of ukraine. kharkiv is one of the pillars of ukraine, putin can't eat the elephant whole.

he wants to cut it into pieces. his goal is not kharkiv, not kyiv. his goal is to destroy ukrainian sovereignty. amna: the greatest fear among people here -- and of analysts around the world -- is that russia's ramped up attacks mean a ground invasion is imminent. an invasion that would force people like 20 year old lisa nikonorova to flee their homes for a second time. >> if russians come here, you have no -- like i have no other choice but to run. because i don't want -- i don't want to be under pressure. amna: her family went to western ukraine in the war's early days but returned a year later. >> this is the only place where i can feel at home. so, if i move even to another city, i won't be -- i won't feel safe because this is the place where i belong. amna: that sense of belonging, hanna zaykina says, is how the city will survive. >> the only emotion that's unchanged is a great love of kharkiv.

all the people of kharkiv are madly in love with it. my family and i never left the city. we were educating from day one of the invasion. when people, when children, were living in the metro stations, teachers didn't leave their kids. even though we've lost buildings, we haven't lost a single child's potential. amna: even in war and uncertainty down here there is joy. i ask yulia what's her favorite thing about school, she answers quickly and with a smile, everything. ♪ amna: the environmental protection agency has finalized a long awaited set of regulations regarding proposed limits on fossil fueled power plant emissions. but these new rules could mean the end of the coal industry as a source of electricity

generated in the united states. stephanie sy has more. stephanie: fossil fuel power plants account for more than one-quarter of all greenhouse gas emissions in the u.s. the biden administration is trying to crack down on the worst polluters, and that's the remaining coal-powered plants which emit the most carbon dioxide. the new epa rules require coal plants to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions by 90% by 2039 or close. there are about 200 coal-burning power plants in operation in the u.s. and last year, coal-fired plants generated a little over 16% of the nation's electricity for more on these rules and the reactions to them, i'm joined by bloomberg's jennifer dlouhy who reports on energy and environmental issues. thanks so much for joining us. the coal industry has already been in decline for decades in the country. will these new rules make an

enormous difference when it comes to climate change and public health? >> we are expecting about half of the nation's capacity to go off-line by 2039, which is essentially a stoppage date, so that is already happening. this rule will encourage more coal plants to close. that is clearly an expectation, and it will do that by basically saying that coal plants, if they want to keep running after january 1, 20 39 will have to be capturing nearly all of their greenhouse gas emissions, and that will have to start doing that by 2032. the systems are expensive. there are powerplant owners who decide it is simply not spend that much money to retrofit a plan to keep it running into the 20 40's, so this will hasten coal retirements that we are

already seeing a defect new natural gas plants coming online as well. stephanie: you talked about the expense of meeting these standards. carbon sequestration is one way they can reduce emissions, but where is that technology and being able to meet those targets? >> carbon capture technology has been around for decades, and yet it has not been deployed widely at a commercial scale, and that is one of the big concerns we are hearing from powerplant owners and utilities and operators right now is frankly carbon capture systems may not be ready to deploy at the skill this rule would require to keep coal plants and large new gas plants online. stephanie: besides goal -- coal, one of the new standards requires that new gas-fired power plants control 90% of

their carbon pollution,but that doesn't apply to existing gas power plants. what do you make of that decision? why weren't the final standards tougher on the gas industry? >> the administration looked at the legal challenges to it, and they decided to put out the decision for existing gas plants and do it is part of a separate rule they are coping to advance later this year. that is a big disappointment. there were environmentalists concerned about getting it not just the new gas appliances that will be built, but a huge source of pollution coming from the existing fleet, and point out that will have to wait another year for that process to be finished. stephanie: they are also critics of the new rules in the coal industry, and to hear them talk about it they say when you were looking at extreme demand on a cold day for hot date that the

most reliable power is still fossil fuel power. is there validity to those concerns as far as what we know about the reliability of renewables? >> there are very real concern to being voiced by these interests, and the epa tried to respond to those concerns. the rule has a safety valve or demand emergencies, so when power spikes and you need to have those gas plants running it will make sure they have the ability to keep running under this rule, so that is seen as addressing some of those concerns, but you are right. this is coming at a time when the power demand is expected to grow tremendously because we have got ai demand, data centers, electrification of our cars. all of that will require more power from the grid, and there are many folks wondering if they can get enough renewable zero

emission supplies on the grid that will provide an always on power source today. stephanie: do you believe that these rules will be enacted anytime soon, or are they going to face the same type of legal and political scrutiny we have seen others face? >> this is the third attempt by the epa under three different administrations to set these kind of limits on the power sector. it is difficult to do, it faces inevitable legal challenges, and if president trump is elected this effort will be a target for elimination or at least a rollback. the next few years will be a challenge in legal courts and in the court of public opinion, and we will see what happens with the election. this is clearly an attempt by the epa and the folks that were working for in the industry to

create a more durable rule that will stand the test of time. stephanie: we will see. thank you so much. ♪ amna: barbara walters became an icon of the news media industry, rising to the ranks to become one of the country's first and most successful female television journalist, but her enormous professional success often came a great personal cost. her life is the focus of the book i discussed with susan page called the rule breaker. susan page, welcome back to the newshour. >> great to be here. amna: so barbara walters was a very public figure. she even had parts of her private life covered in the tabloids. what was missing from her narrative that you felt needed to be explored and told in this

book? >> you know, i think one thing that we've lost is a sense of how hard it was for her. you know, we remember her as this enormously successful, wealthy, person with lots of honors seen as a real groundbreaker. but she got there with a process. it took unbelievable grit and determination and putting up with all kinds of grief. amna: lou walters was her father. what really struck me was how much of an impact he had on her life. he was a showbiz guy, right? how did he inform how she navigated her path forward? >> so he was a great impresario. he originally was booking vaudeville acts. he became the founder of a famous nightclubs, including the latin quarter. but he would earn a fortune and gamble it away. he would have a successful nightclub open another one, see it go bankrupt, and at one point he even attempted suicide. a great pivot point for barbara walters in her life. amna: what did that uncertainty

and the instability do to her? how do you think it impacted her? >> it gave her the sense that you could never be content. you were never safe. that however famous you were, you could lose it in a flash, just like her father had. amna: and yet she did break barriers. became the first woman to host a morning show on national television. how did she do it? how did she get where no other woman had gone before? >> you know, it's not like they welcomed her. nobody wanted her to go where she was going. nobody had done it before. so she had no model. she didn't have a mentor, but she wanted it. and she was really good at doing interviews, and she just plowed ahead. you know, she became, a correspondent on the today show with frank mcgee, who was the host of the show. he set a rule that she could not speak during an interview until he had asked the first three questions. can you imagine? amna: in every interview? >> in every interview. this was, of course, very frustrating to her. she responded eventually by setting up her own interviews outside the studio so that she could ask all the questions, and

with that, she really found the thing she was best at, which is the big interview. amna: she had a reputation for being very competitive, very tough. and there's this quote in your book from her as well. she says, television is a tough game, and you don't win by always being ms. nice guy. was she ever miss nice guy though? >> well, not when she was climbing the ladder. she was never miss a nice guy. and if you want to think how competitive she was, ask diane sawyer, because their competition, their rivalry at abc is the stuff of legend. amna: there's a quote from connie chung about this. actually, you explore this idea with people who knew her at the time. and connie says this, “it was a constant battle royale,” talking about the competition between her and diane, but so were the three increment. she points out peter, dan and tom jennings, rather and brokaw. she says “when barbara and diane were fighting it out, they'd call it a cat fight.” how much of that whole narrative do you

think was informed by sexist tropes? >> some of it, some of it was. and it's true that male anchors were also enormously competitive with one another. but there was an edge, i think, to the rivalry between barbara walters and diane sawyer that went beyond that, between anybody else. what made her so driven, and, you know, i think it was not that she was so confident. i think it's because she was so uncertain. she was so anxious. she never felt, as i said, that she was content and could rest on her laurels. she was never content that it was enough. it was never enough. not even at the point when she was in her 80s and finally retired from the view after that show. after that show, another correspondent said to her backstage, what is it that you want? meaning do you want to go to the bahamas? do you want to learn to play golf? and she said, i want more time. meaning i want more time on the air. amna: did she at all resent that other woman who came after her had a lot of things easier than she did? >> she did resent that.

barbara walters cut a path for herself because she wanted to do these things, and it had the effect of cutting a path that woman afterwards could walk with more ease than she ever did. and she liked the idea that she was the groundbreaker, but she resented the fact that the women who followed her had an easier time than she had. amna: and yet she defined this whole new genre, this big interview get, right, that really defined big moments in television, especially when you have millions of people tuning in to watch her talk to monica lewinsky or ronald reagan or others. you write in the book that barbara lived for the get. she would feel a void in a personal life that was dominated by her needy parents and sister, her disappointing marriages, her estrangement from her only child. but only her professional life could fill her with a sense of victory and vindication. what is the personal toll of that kind of career? >> she paid a price. three failed marriages for a long time in a strange relationship with her only daughter. this sense of constantly being competing. you know, we talk about work life balance these days. for barbara walters, there was

no work-life balance. there was work. any time there was a conflict between her life, her personal life and her professional life, work would come first. and that is a tough thing for husbands and children to understand. amna: it's a 2004 interview with oprah when she was asked about her life and she said, “most of the time when i look back on what i've done, i think, 'did i do that? and you know what i say to myself? 'why didn't i enjoy it more? " was all the work and the sacrifice, was it worth it to her in the end? >> you know, i think it's i think it was worth it to her. and one reason i say that is because of what she chose to put on her gravestone. her gravestone is not a traditional one. it's not the beloved wife, the beloved sister, the beloved mother. her gravestone says, no regrets. i had a great life. amna: the book is rule breaker: the life and times of barbara walters. susan page, thank you so much. great to speak with you. >> thank you.

amna: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm amna nawaz. on behalf of the entire newshour team, thank you for joining us. ♪ >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by -- individuals and institutions and friends of the newshour, including the judy and peter bloom koger foundation. >> you don't need vision to do those things in life. it is exciting to be part of the team driving technology forward. people who know know bdo. >> a law partner rediscovers her

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>> this is pbs newshour was from weta studios and washington, d.c. and from our bureau at the walter cronkite school of journalism at arizona state university. ♪ >>

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