narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. brook: these are people who are trying to change the world. startups have this energy that energizes me. i'm thriving by helping others everyday. people who know, know bdo.

narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. announcer: and now, "bbc news". ♪ lewis: hello. i'm lewis vaughan jones. you're watching "the context." >> there are two separate realities. >> 37 counts under the espionage act represent the most serious crimes any american can face. >> it is now a new state in our american politics, that we now put the opposition in jail.

♪ lewis: hello, welcome to the program. former u.s. president donald trump is in court in miami right now. let's cross straightaway to the live pictures we have, give you a sense of all the angles we are covering. his supporters outside the courthouse, as well as some obvious opponents who have turned up, too. large numbers of his supporters have arrived. the other live pictures we have are outside the court. in the last few minutes we have had it confirmed proceedings are underway. he is in the courtroom, donald trump is in the courtroom for his arraignment. what is an arraignment? effectively just reading out of the charges, 37 of them. 37 criminal charges being read out against donald trump. he isjust in the last hour or se

saw him arriving into court. these are the most recent pictures. his motorcade, he traveled a short distance from one of his residences -- there is the black vehicle going into the car park underneath the courtroom there. we haven't seen him himself, but weave heard from a spokesperson of donald trump in the last half-hour. let's take a listen. >> the executive branch has the power to summarily declassify documents. the decision to pursue charges against president trump while turning a blind eye to others is emblematic of the corruption that we have here. we are at a turning point in our nation's history. the targeting, prosecution of a leading political opponent is the type of thing you see in dictatorships like cuba and venezuela. it is commonplace there for

bible candidates to be prosecuted, -- rival candidates to be prosecuted,, persecuted and put into jail. what is being done to president trump should terrify all citizens of this country. these are not the ideals that our democracy is founded upon. this is not our america. thank you. >> so, what is happening right now inside the courthouse? has he been arrested? has he been fingerprinted? has a mugshot been taken? walk us through what is happening. >> president trump is in a very unique position where he doesn't need to be given a mugshot, obviously. he is not a flight risk. he is the leading candidate of the gop at the moment. he is going to reprocess that has been court and they did with secret servicend it will be handled seamlessly. >> the attorneys -- real quick -- [indiscernible] >> he is defiant.

lewis: "he is defiant" were the last words there, the asssment of one of donald trump's spokespeople on this historic day, no matter what side of the political divide you are on. we will go to our correspondent. bring us up-to-date, what is happening right now? reporter: donald trump is inside the courtroom. he is being arraigned. he is there with his codefendant walt nauta, an aide to donald trump back in the white house who continued working for him once he left. he is accused of moving those boxes with a classified documents he is having the charges read out to him, and what is really interesting is that jack smith is there as well, the special prosecutor who brought this case against him. donald trump has not minced his words about how he feels about jack smith,

insulting mr. smith, calling him to ranged, calling him a lunatic-- deranged, calling him a lunatic. he is having the charges without him and he has been process in terms of his fingerprints. no mugshot. he will enter a plea, not guilty we expect, of course, and then you will leave the courthouse and there is some suggestion -- he will leave the courthouse and there is some suggestion he will do what walk about, with a lot of his supporters. the last six or seven years there is a sense of numbness about donald trump. he has broken all the rules and crossed every redline that if any other politician had done it, their career would be over. this indictment is really serious. yes, he was indicted two months ago in new york where he was accused of breaking state law on campaign-finance. but this is the united states of america vs. donald j. trump, the u.s. accusing its former

commander-in-chief, potentially future president, of breaching national security, jeopardizing national security. this is huge. lewis: thank you so much for that. as she was talking there, we got a quick line through from the reuters news agency saying simply this, "trump pleads not guilty at court hearing in classified documents case." this, of course, is all about a 37 charges. trump pleads not guilty at court in the last few minutes. let's just take a couple of minutes to take a quick reminder of what this is all about. we are going to take a look at what the prosecutors have alleged in the indictment. the 37-count indictment accuses him of keeping the files at his florida estate, including in a ballroom and a shower.

among the more than 300 classified files he took to mar-a-lago, some of the most damning documents included information about america's nuclear programs, classified information about defense and weapons cap abilities of the united states and foreign countries. other documents highlighted defense weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the u.s. and its allies to military tax, and --military attacks, and plans for any response to that aggression the indictment laid out how the former president showed documents to people without clearance, despite knowing there were still classified. the prosecutors then claimed he tried to obstruct the fbi's investigation, suggesting to his lawyers and aides that they should either hide or destroy files rather than hand them over. let's take you back to the live pictures we have for miami, just to let you know we are keeping across all the events there. but we have some interesting

analysts to speak to. we are going to speak to lauren right, lecturer in politics at princeton university, former white house ethics lawyer richard panpainter, too. thank you both for coming on the program. >> hey. lewis: just so you guys know, we are going to keep the live pictures rolling beside you, because this is an extraordinary moment, whatever way you look at it. this is a moment of u.s. history. >> absolutely. it is the first time we have ever seen anything like this, and that is the case with many things trump does. it is not even his first indictment. i studied the politics of this and presidential history. one thing that continues to fascinate me about trump is the steadiness of the base and their support for him. however, i don't think it is responsible to say this will

somehow help him. i don't think we have any evidence of that. he might keep -- lewis: lauren, you have just fren. i don't know whether you can hear us. interestingly, we will continue that point, because the established received wisdom, as it were, is these kinds of appearances will be used by donald trump to fire up his base, increases campaign donations, increase the chance of him getting the republican nomination. of course, he is front-runner by quite a long way for that. lauren seemed to be challenging that as a premise. richard painter, what did you make of that? i don't want to use the old phrase, but you may well still be muted. there we go, we can hear you now. start again. richard: yes, this is about handling of classified information, not partisan

politics. i will reiterate what i told the white house staff in 2005 when i gave the ethics lectures on how to handle classified information. one, you do not take it home with you. you story only in a secure facility. second, you do not show it to anyone who does not have a security clearance -- anyone in the media, political action committee, nobody who doesn't have a security clearance can see those documents. that is strick lee prohibited. people need a security clearance to see the documents. third, when there is a compromise of classified information, there will be an investigation, and it is quickly important to cooperate with the investigation--critically important to cooperate with the investigation, so we can ascertain where the documents are, who has seen them, and we can get them back. this indictment alleges that donald trump did all 3 -- he knowingly took classified documents out of the white house, he knowingly showed them

to individuals who did not have as a gritty clearance -- who did not have a security clearance, and when there was an investigation, he obstructed the investigation -- lewis: ok, let's break that down because that is a really clear and really crucial distinction. we will leave points two and three for a moment. we will start with point one, removing them in the first place, because his supporters say it is not just donald trump who has done that, other people have done that, this is double standards and this is what they talk about with some establishment. richard: it is absolutely unacceptable to remove classified document under any circumstances, whether it is negligence or intentional. that is why i have called for a complete investigation of what happened with joe biden when he was vice president, and why the documents were sitting at the university of pennsylvania office for six years. i also want to learn more up at

the university of pennsylvania raising money from chinese donors and who had access to that. there are a lot of questions yet to be answered. but at this point, there is not evidence that joe biden intentionally remove the documents. if i were to see such evidee, i would call for the prosecution of the president of the united states, if he had intentionally removed classified documents. but that is not what i see in that case right now. lewis: ok, in that case, move on two points two and three that you raised. is it in your assessment, given the evidence that we have seen so far, that there is a proper case for donald trump to answer here? richard: well, the second issue is whether he did show these documents to someone in the media, someone in his political action committee, as alleged in the indictment. if so, that is a separate felony

each time he does that. if he shows that to someone without a security clearance, that the government will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. the third thing is absolutely critical, full cooperation with any investigation. obruction of justice is very serious. we saw donald trump obstructed justice in the rush investigation. part two of the mueller report was all about that. he wasn't prosecuted because he was a sitting president and the justice department didn't nt to prosecute him. but that was obstruction of justice, and that is what he continued in this episode when the fbi, the national archives, national security officials wanted to get the documents, find out who saw them, he frustrated, he obstructed the investigation, according to the indictment. of course, the government waterproofed this beyond a reasonable doubt--will have to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. i have called on the biden white

house to cooperate fully with the investigation of those documents and put pressure on the university of pennsylvania to cooperate fully with respect to the documents under their custody and control for six years. it is very important for everyone to cooperate in these investigations -- lewis: richard, that is interesting, because we have even heard from donald trump supporters throughout the day saying, frankly, they do wish the full cooperation had been forthcomin that basically the documents had been handed back straightaway. as you pointed out, nothing is proven yet, it has to be proven beyonda reasonable doubt-- beyond a reasonable doubt. but if you work hypothetically that is happened, many of his supporters who believe this is an overstretch, and overreach, do accept that they wish all the documents had been returned straightaway. richard: well, yes, because that is the legal obligation, to

return the documents, cooperate with the investigation so we can find ouwho had access to the documents, who might have had access to the documents, what secrets might have been compromised and to whom. investigation will be ongoing with the biden documents as well. the difference is that it appears the biden w ioutesse op ercoand unfortunately donald trp decided very early on in this process to resist investigation, to obstruct it. there are accusations that he ed to the government, that he told his lawyers lies, that we are playing around with classified information here, and this is a very dangerous situation when someone is refusing to cooperate with the federal investigation of what is going on. lewis: fascinating. thank you very much for that. lauren, you are back with us. we have that connection is a

little better. both of you stay there a couple of seconds because i want to reiterate the breaking lines. we are getting some of the detail of what is happening inside that courtroom. donald trump allowed her leave court without -- allowed to leave court without conditions. that is from reuters via cnn. trump allowed to leave court without conditions. trump has pled not guilty to mishandling government secrets. that is according to afp, one of a number of news agencies reporting that. trump pleads not guilty to mishandling government secrets. as for those details of what is happening inside, it seems that, well, prosecutors told the judge they do not consider donald trump to be a flight risk. this was pretty much ancipated, clearly, as the front runner for the republican party to be the next presidential candidate.

very unlikely to be a flight risk under any real circumstance. we've had that reiterated to the judge. lauren, let's go back to you, and i want to pick up -- i know it feels like a while ago, but the point you are making is that donald trump, and the argument goes that donald trump uses these types of appearances to his advantage, to fund raise, to galvanize support, to play the victim, to secure even more support for his republican party residential nomination. you don't think that's true. is that right? lauren: well, he tries. financially he succeeds, from a fundraising perspective. but i don't know how you grow the numbers of supporters en you do need some moderates and you do need some people that are currently, polling indicates,

preferring chris sununu or chris christie or any of these other republican candidates, and tre might be 20 of them by the time we are done. i don't know how it grows your support. especially it doesn't help you in a national election, and that was the point i was making before we broke up earlier. lewis: i see. and is it your sense that these pictures beamed across the u.s. and around the world, that in the end it won't make mh difference, he will become the nominee? lauren: i can't tell right now. it would take all of his opponents turning on him, which so far they really haven't. we have seen some comments from nikki haley about irresponsibility, a little bit from ron desantis about i would be arrested in the second, but that is not strong enough to take on the current head of the

party. that opposition is going to have to get much stronger and those voices lour. he already has enough support with all of these indictments to carry him through to victory, even though it is extraordinarily serious. lewis: lauren, stand by for us. i want to take our viewers through the various live actors we have. -- live pictures we have. this is outside the court in miami. you can see the activity in the background, big media presence there. these are the aerial pictures we have live of the courthouse, donald trump inside, proceedings underway. the arraignment is just a formal reading of the alleged criminal charges to him. and then across miami, and the slightly wider area, there have been his supporters, lots of his supporters in the street, some of his supporters, too. looks relatively quiet. yesterday we did have a briefing

from the mayor of the area, police chiefs, talking about their preparations. they were prepared for 500, up to 50,000 people to be there. they were confident they had the resources in place to deal with any situation that arose. so far it has been noisy at times. seems to be quite right now. it has been noisy at times,ut so far no trouble reported. we haven't actually seen donald trump himself. there are some of the supporters there. we haven't seen donald trump himself. we did see the arrival of his motorcade into courttself, a short journey. and he did actually message from his -- this is the motorcade, these are pictures from a little earlier. this is him making a relatively short journey into court in miami. interesting, whehe was in that vehicle, when he was heading to court, he did have a message.

he wroten his social-media platform, "one of the sdest days in the history of our country. we are a nation in decline!!!" let's cross back to miami. our correspondent is there. a s ee get som small details of what is happening inside the court building. reporter: yes, donald trump has pleaded not guilty at the court hearing into the classified documents. he is facing 37 counts. he is also there with his aide walt nauta, who was charged in one indictment. he was his aide in the white house and kept on working with the donald trump when he left the white house in january 2021. just give you a little bit of detail, for people who might be wondering why we can't see any pictures or any footage inside,

and the way that we were able to back in new york when he was indicted there is because this ishe federal courthouse and there are very stringent rules around that. ralis are inside and they cannot even take mobile phones in. trump was there with his arms crossed in frot of the magistrate judge, in his dark suit and red tie. his lawyer was also seated at the defense table. donald trump has been told he is allowed to leave court without any conditions. technically he is considered under arrest and considered to be in custody, but he is not deemed a flight risk. he is expected to come out. there e some suggestions he will come out and speak to his supporters f miami police are prepared for 50,000 supporters to turn out. i can tell you there might be a couple hundred. he might come out and talk to his supporters, but then he is

expected to leave florida and headed to new jersey, bedminster, where he will be making some comments -- one can imagine what that will be -- and he will it automatically go back into campaign fundraising. lewis: great stuff, thank you very much for that. that is the latest from outside the court. we are going to quickly return to our guest richard painter, who is still standing by alongside lauren wght as well. we've got a couple minutes left in this section. richard painter, i want to come to you. if you could outline the scale, i suppose, the importance, the prominence, the seriousness of these 30-plus charges. richard: well, they are very serious, because this involves some of our nation's most sensitive secrets, including our nuclear secrets and our military

plans for dealing with an attack from a foreign power. and i don't know exactly wt is in the documents. of course, they are classified, i don't have a security clearance, neither should the journalist who was shown the documents. the journalist should not have seen the documents. this is a very, very dangerous situation for the united states where there is such a compromise of our nuclear secrets and other classified information. we are going to see in this trial to the extent to which donald trump knowingly removed the documents, held onto the documents, showed them to other people, and obstructed the investigation. if these charges in the indictment are proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and that is the job of the prosecution to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt, then donald trump is guilty of a very serious felonies. lewis: let's absolute stress

clearly nothing is near trial yet. let's say he is found guilty -- i know we are leaping way ahead -- what does that mean about his ability to be president? richard: well, then if he were convicted of several of these counts, or all these counts, these are very serious felonies. the trial needs to take place, and we need to find out how much of this was negligence, how much of this was intentional on his part, and who else was responsible. we can't prejudge the situation until the trial has taken place. but the allegations in the indictment are extremely serious. some of these statutes provide he could not serve in public office if he was convicted. there are questions whether that

is constitutional or not. but we will see. too early to figure that out for . lewis: thank you very much for that. we will come back to you shortly and our other guest lauren wright in a little while, too. for the moment, donald trump has narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: financial services firm, raymond james. man: bdo. accountants and advisors. narrator: funding was also provided by, the freeman foundation. by judy and peter blum kovler foundation; pursuing solutions for america's neglected needs. and by contributions to this pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪

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♪ ♪ narrator: funding for this presentation of this program is provided by... narrator: pediatric surgeon. volunteer. topiary artist. a raymond james financial advisor tailors advice to help you live your life. life well planned. brook: these are people who are trying to change the world. startups have this energy that energizes me. i'm thriving by helping others everyday. people who know, know bdo.