captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> thank you for calling new york city contact center. my name is mariah. how maio i assist you? >> $10 million americans filed for unemployment in the last two weeks. >> can i also have your address? >> that's more jobs lost than in the 18 months of the great recession. most layoffs are coming from the largest employer of all, small business. how many people have you laid off? >> over 2,000 people. >> restaurant jobs are the most vulnerable, retail is second. >> then you start to look at all the concentric circles, the people who do our flowers, the people that deliver the bread, the people who fish for our

fish. >> we're going to go ahead and get started. >> tonight, as the world struggles to contain and recover from the novel coronavirus, we offer a story we completed just before life changed so dramatically. >> can you sung me a song from your youth? >> it's a story of history, hope, survival, and resilience, which has its roots in another time when the world was convulsed by crisis, world war ii. aaron, tell us what your parents did before the war. >> they owned and operated a butcher shop. >> this interview is unlike any we have ever done. >> it's your mentality. it's your soul. it's your mind. >> uncredibly, aaron elster, a holocaust survivor, died two years ago. what's the weather like today? >> i'm actually recording. i cannot answer that question.

>> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories, tonight, on "60 minutes." ( ticking ) >> this portion of "60 minutes" is sponsored by progressive insurance. save when you bundle auto, home, or motorcycle insurance. save when you bundle auto, home, or motorcycle insurance. visit progressive.com. commercial halftime show, and now e featuring smash mouth. ♪ hey now, you're an all star ♪ get your game on, go play thank you! goodnight! [ cheers and applause ] now enjoy the second half of the commercial! even renters can bundle and save! where did that come from? the kitchen. it was halftime. where did that come from? the first fda-approved tremfya® can help adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis uncover clearer skin that can last.

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every day, we're providing trusted information from top health experts...sharing tools to help protect families from fraud... and creating resources to support family caregivers everywhere. as always, you can count on aarp to advocate for you and your family. join us and stay connected at aarp.org/coronavirus >> scott pelley: ten million americans filed for unemployment in the last two weeks. that's more jobs lost than in the 18-months of the great recession. those sidelined by coronavirus include business owners at the height of their success, americans who never imagined asking for help and those who

believed we would never again explore the depths of the 1930's. coast-to-coast, the economy is in critical condition with workers idled at boeing, general motors, ford, ge, marriott and macy's. but the largest job losses will likely come from the biggest employer of all-small business. >> melba wilson: when i look around at my dining room of 109 people. we normally see a lot of life. right now, i see despair. the restaurant is normally jammed packed. and this is what we have right now. it's an empty space. >> pelley: three weeks ago, you were lucky to get one of these tables at melba's in harlem. >> wilson: i started melba's 16 years ago with money that i saved up under my mattress. >> pelley: literally, under the mattress? >> wilson: literally, under the mattress. so, i grew up watching my mother doing that.

and i emulated it. >> pelley: saving, sacrifice, and carolina cooking made melba wilson a hit. now, she's laid off 24 employees. melba's is restricted to take out and delivery, like new york city's other 27,000 restarants; overall one of the city's largest employers. >> wilson: well, if you're looking at the bigger picture across new york, you're looking at restaurants, you're looking at nightlife and you're looking at almost a half a million people that don't have jobs, that cannot feed their families, that cannot pay their bills. that don't know where their next meals are coming from. that's despair. that's devastation. >> pelley: how much devastation is estimated by economists as an eventual unemployment rate between 10% and 30%. we found the numbers would be higher if state unemployment

offices were not overwhelmed. >> all specialists are busy with other customers. you must call back this week. >> kaitlyn reynolds: i've done that 50 times, every day, for two weeks. >> pelley: two weeks ago, kaitlyn reynolds was a vice president of a firm that organizes business conferences. she filed for unemployment online but discovered her last step, in new york, is a mandatory phone call. >> reynolds: 50 times a day since march 16 to get through to the contact center for unemployment to continue my claim and i have not yet been able to get through. >> pelley: guy hillel, found the unemployment office website had crashed. >> guy hillel: you would go two or three pages in, and it would throw you out, would tell you that-- you know, "session is timed out." you-- then you do-- go six pages in; again, it will throw you out. "this session is timed out." you would go all the way to the end, press "submit." you press submit and it will

tell you "session is timed out." >> pelley: time ran out on the hotel where hillel was a manager. a native of israel, he worked in hospitality for 20 years. when his 500-room, times square hotel closed, he went home to his wife, two children and a new occupation-- connecting with the unemployment office. >> hillel: after i think ten days, i was able to submit and go to the next step, which was a phone call. >> your call cannot be completed as dialed. >> hillel: i'm gonna try again. 606. >> pelley: no one at the unemployment office is answering his call either. >> we are experiencing a high volume of calls at this time. >> hillel: and, they hung me up. >> pelley: his credit card company is giving him a break for 90 days. no such luck with his car payment. what is it like, after so many years in your industry, bringing home a paycheck every week? what is it like that you're not

doing that now? >> hillel: it hurts your pride, in a way, you know? sleepless night. you wake up in the middle of the night, thinking, worrying-- "what will be next? how can we-- how can we get to the next step? >> pelley: have you ever applied for unemployment before? >> reynolds: never. >> pelley: how do you feel about it? >> reynolds: at first i was embarrassed i've worked since i was 15. i've always put work above anything else. i've never-- i never thought i would be in a position like this where i would need to ask for help. >> pelley: are you a month away from being broke? two months away? >> reynolds: i'd say about a month. yeah. >> pelley: it may take a month or more for the largest government bailout in history to show much effect. federally-backed emergency small business loans will become available through banks, but demand, is likely to cause

delay, like those calls to the unemployment office. melba wilson applied for a loan. her employees are waiting. >> alysha navarro: it was devastating. i was heartbroken, i was scared. scared for me and scared for my daughter. >> pelley: alysha navarro was laid off at melba's after two years. she's single with a one-and-a- half-year-old daughter and a list of questions. >> navarro: can i feed my family? how can i pay bills? you wonder if this last three or four months, am i gonna become homeless? wave at the camera. >> hi camera. >> pelley: unemployment benefits have been temporarily increased for the emergency, about double in many states. but even that leaves navarro about $2,000 a month short. >> navarro: sing rain, rain go away. this month, i won't be able to pay my cable, and i won't be able to pay my phone bill. >> pelley: you got the rent covered? >> navarro: definitely have the rent covered for this month, but i don't-- i have it covered for

the next two months. but after that, what do i do? >> pelley: new york ordered a 90 day stop on evictions. nationwide, foreclosures on federally-backed mortgages are delayed 60 days. like most americans, alysha navarro is expecting a one-time check of $1,200 from the bailout fund and $500 for her daughter but those checks are likely six or eight weeks away. as kaitlyn reynolds found, the safety net wasn't meant to catch so many millions at once. you know, i'm curious. would you try the unemployment office again? >> reynolds: yeah, absolutely. let me pull up the number. >> we're sorry. we are experiencing an extremely high volume of calls at this time. >> thank you for calling new york state contact center. my name is myria, how may i assist you? >> pelley: the high volume of

calls is 1.3 million a day, the state office told us. it's completing 61,000 applications a day. >> may i have your first and last name? can i also have your address? answer the questions truthfully. and the reason you are no longer working? is it lack of work, discharged or quit? >> pelley: like other states, new york is attempting to spread calls across different days of the week based on the applicants last name. the state is training another 200 reinforcements, some will take calls from home. >> we're doing everything we can to get people paid as soon as possible. >> danny meyer: this virus has, for me, been almost like a hurricane with no wind, or a forest fire with no flame. >> pelley: danny meyer is among new york's most successful restaurateurs. he started the shake shack chain and runs 20 other restaurants. how many people have you laid off? >> meyer: we've laid off over 2,000 people by now. >> pelley: restaurant jobs are

the most vulnerable in the crisis. retail is second. >> meyer: there's about 660,000 restaurants in america. you can do the math on how many human beings are actively working, producing something of real value by bringing people together, and they're out of work right now. >> pelley: the math is, 12 million jobs in restaurants, which meyer explained is only the start. >> meyer: then you start to look at all the concentric circles, the people that do our flowers, the people that deliver the bread, the people who fish for our fish. we know from the farmers in the greenmarket that, if people are not gathering, and restaurants are not open, how do you know what to plant? you don't go to the trouble of planting a crop only to have it go fallow. >> pelley: factories are fallow too.

manufacturing output is dropping at the fastest rate since the great recession. >> michael bednark: we employed about 120 full-time employees at bednark studio. >> pelley: michael bednark owns a brooklyn design and fabrication company that makes displays for retailers. >> bednark: we laid off about 25% of our staff, about 30 people. we made, basically a pay-cut across the board for everyone, so a wage reduction. >> pelley: his factory builds in wood, glass, metal and plastic. he has enough contracts at the moment to last about a month and a half. >> bednark: we sort of just were trying to stay positive, find a way to get through six weeks. and hopefully on the other side there'd be something to do. >> pelley: and you found a way. >> bednark: we did. >> pelley: overnight, working with a partner, bednark is now manufacturing gear for hospitals. the minimum pay here is $18 an hour. they're making 27,000 face shields a day.

the new york department of health wants to buy half a million. so you were forced to lay off about 30 people. and now you've hired how many? >> bednark: we've probably hired close to 100 ourselves. there's probably about 300-400 people working on this project. we have truck drivers and we have-- then we have auxiliary people working on it. every day we get a new- a lunch served by a local restaurant. they deliver 160 boxed lunches. >> pelley: a restaurant that was closed except for takeout is now delivering 150 lunches to your face mask factory. >> bednark: yeah, our goal was to it's basically to keep the funds in brooklyn, keep the funds in new york. help people help others. so, by, you know, giving them a lunch, we can employ ten, 15 people at a restaurant each day. >> pelley: we actually heard a lot of stories of empathy. alysha navarro from melba's cooked up one way to help. >> navarro: i study how to do homemade hand sanitizers,

lysols, homemade masks to help people who are less, who are unfortunate, and who can't afford those things. and you can make them with every day home supplies. >> pelley: danny meyer started a non-profit charity making grants to his most needy former employees, and michael bednark's people are sacrificing for each other. >> bednark: we had some employees offering to split their weeks. so, they'd do 20 hours and then have their counterpart do 20 hours that week just to sort of keep people working and keep people busy and keep people getting paid. >> pelley: you had employees volunteer to split their weeks with somebody who was less fortunate? >> bednark: correct. >> pelley: the best of these stories happened before our eyes. >> wilson: a chicken dish, a grilled salmon and a vegetarian dish, correct? >> yeah. >> wilson: okay. >> pelley: melba wilson took an order for takeout from someone who wanted to remain anonymous. 100 dinners to be delivered to

nearby mount sinai hospital, one voice on the phone joining a chorus of americans, longing for better days ahead. >> wilson: i am so uplifted, first of all, by the fact that you are doing this for the medical staff and also that you are helping my employees. so, it means the world to me. >> and your name is melba? that obviously means you're the owner? >> wilson: yeah, my name is melba, yeah, i just happen to be the owner. and thank you so much. and stay safe, may god continue to bless you. thank you. >> yeah, bye-bye. >> wilson: okay, bye-bye. my grandmother always told us, "this too shall pass." and it's times of, when, of trials and tribulation that i lean on my faith and i lean on my spirit. i don't know how. i don't know when. but believe me, this too shall pass.

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struggles to contain and recover from the novel coronavirus, we offer a story we completed just before life changed so dramatically. it is a story of history, hope, survival and resilience, which has its roots in another time when the world was convulsed by crisis: world war ii. this year marks the 75th anniversary of the end of that war and of the liberation of concentration camps across europe. most of the survivors who remain are now in their 80's and 90's. soon there will be no one left who experienced the horrors of the holocaust firsthand-- no one to answer questions or bear witness to future generations. but as lesley stahl reports, a new and dramatic effort is underway to change that. harnessing the technologies of the present and the future, it keeps alive the ability to talk to, and get answers from, the

past. >> lesley stahl: hi, aaron. >> aaron elster: hello. >> stahl: can i ask you some questions? >> elster: you can ask me anything you want, within reason. >> stahl: our interview with holocaust survivor aaron elster, who spent two years of his childhood hidden in a neighbor's attic, was unlike any interview we have ever done. aaron, tell us what your parents did before the war. >> elster: they owned and operated a butcher shop. >> stahl: it wasn't the content of the interview that was so unusual. where did you live? >> elster: i was born in a small town in poland called sokolów podlaski. >> stahl: it's the fact that this interview was with a man who was no longer alive. aaron elster died two years ago. what's the weather like today? >> elster: i'm actually a recording. i cannot answer that question. >> heather maio: the survivors were getting very old.

>> stahl: heather maio came up with the idea for this project. she had worked on exhibits featuring holocaust survivors for years, and wanted future generations to have the same opportunity to interact with them as she'd had. >> maio: i wanted to talk to a holocaust survivor like i would today, with that person sitting right in front of me and we were having a conversation. >> stahl: she knew that back in the ¡90's, after making the film "schindler's list," steven spielberg created a foundation named for the hebrew word for the holocaust, shoah, to film and collect testimonies from as many survivors as possible: they have interviewed nearly 55,000 of them so far and have stored them at the university of southern california. but maio dreamed of something more dynamic-- being able to

actively converse with survivors after they're gone. and she figured, in the age of artificial intelligence tools like siri and alexa, the technology had to be creatable. >> stephen smith: i've been involved in interviewing holocaust survivors for over 20 years. >> stahl: she brought the idea to stephen smith, executive director of the u.s.c. shoah foundation, and now her husband. he loved it, but some of his colleagues weren't so sure. >> maio: one of them looked at me, she was, like, "you wanna talk to dead people?" >> stahl: and you said, "yes, because that's the point." >> maio: that's the point. >> stahl: well maybe people thought you're turning the holocaust into something maybe hokey? >> maio: yeah. they said that, "you're gonna disney-fy-- >> stahl: yes. >> maio: "you're gonna disney-fy the holocaust." >> smith: we had a lot of pushback on this project. "is it the right thing to do? what about the wellbeing of the survivors? are we trying to keep them alive beyond their deaths?" everyone had questions except for one group of people, the survivors themselves, who said, "where do i sign up? i would like to participate in

this project." no barriers to entry. >> stahl: the first survivor they signed up to do a trial run was a man named pinchas gutter, who was born in poland and deported to the majdanek concentration camp with his parents and twin sister sabina at the age of 11. he is the only one who survived. they flew pinchas from his home in toronto to los angeles, and asked him to sit inside this. so you're in this dome? what-- >> pinchas gutter: yeah, i call it a sphere. they call it a dome. and then eventually, it was called a bubble. >> stahl: a bubble surrounding him with lights and more than 20 cameras. the goal was to future-proof the interviews so that as technology advances and 3-d, hologram-like projection becoms the norm, they'll have all the necessary angles. >> smith: so the very first day we went to film pinchas, we had these ultra high speed cameras.

they were all linked together and synced together to make-- this video of him. so-- we sit down and they press record. nothing happens. so pinchas is sitting there with 6,000 l.e.d. lights on him and cameras that don't work. >> pinchas: can i go back to sleep now? >> stahl: sunglasses shielded his eyes. >> pinchas: when are we gonna start? i was bored sitting in that chair, so i started singing to myself. so suddenly, steven had this idea, "oh, he's singing. we gonna record some songs of his." ♪ ♪ >> smith: he was such a good sport. >> maio: he was a really good sport. >> stahl: eventually the cameras rolled, ad pinchas was asked to come back to the bubble for the real thing. how long were you in that chair? >> gutter: a whole week from 9:00 to 5:00. >> stahl: a week? >> gutter: we were there with breaks for lunch. ad-- but i was there from 9:00 to 5:00 answering questions-- >> stahl: oh my gosh. it took so long because they asked him nearly 2,000

questions. the idea was to cover every conceivable question anyone might ever want to ask him. did you have to look exactly the same? >> gutter: i had to wear the same clothes and i had three pairs of the same jackets, the same shirts, the same trousers, the same shoes. >> stahl: pinchas can now be seen, in those shirts, trousers, and shoes, at holocaust museums in dallas, indiana, and here at the illinois holocaust museum in skokie, outside chicago, where visitors can ask him their own questions. >> what kept you going, or what gave you hope while you were experiencing hardship in the camps? >> gutter: we did hope that the nazis would lose the war.. >> stahl: pinchas's image is projected onto an 11-foot high screen. >> what we see here... >> stahl: smith joined us to explain how the technology works. >> smith: so what's happening is all of the answers to the questions that pinchas gave go

into a database. and when you ask a question, the algorithm is looking through all of the database "do i have an answer to that." and then it'll bring back what it thinks is the closest answer to your question. >> stahl: i'm going to try talking to pinchas. >> smith: yes. >> stahl: all right. did you have a happy childhood? >> gutter: i had a very happy childhood. my parents were winemakers. my father started teaching me to become a winemaker when i was three-and-a-half years old. by the age of five, i could already read and i could already write. >> stahl: wow, you're very smart. >> gutter: thank you. >> stahl: i've noticed there's a little jiggle right before pinchas starts to talk. what is that? >> smith: what you're seeing here isn't a human being. it's video clips that are-- that are being butted up to each other and played. and as it searches and brings the clip in, you just-- you're seeing a little bit of a jump cut. >> stahl: the jump cuts stopped being distracting once we started talking about the fate of pinchas's family.

tell us what happened when you got to the camp. >> gutter: as soon as we arrived there, we were being separated into different groups. and my sister was somehow pushed towards the children. and i saw her, she must have spotted my mother. so she ran towards my mother. i saw my mother. and she hugged her. and since that time, all i can remember whenever i think of my sister is her long-- big, long, blonde braid. >> stahl: that was the last time he saw his twin sister sabina. he learned later that day that she and both his parents had been killed in the gas chambers. pinchas was alone at age 11, put to work as a slave laborer. did you ever see anybody killed? >> gutter: unfortunately, i saw

many people die in front of my eyes. >> stahl: i wasn't sure how a recording would handle what i wanted to ask pinchas next... how can you still have faith in god? >> gutter: how can you possibly not believe in god? >> stahl: well, how did he let this happen? >> gutter: god gave human beings the knowledge of right and wrong and he allowed them to do what they wished on this earth, to find their own way. to my mind, when god sees what human beings are up to, especially things like genocide, he weeps. >> stahl: wow. stephen, i could ask him questions for ten hours. and on the screen-- >> smit: yeah-- >> stahl: wow. since pinchas gutter was filmed, the shoah foundation has recorded interviews with 21 more holocaust survivors, each for a

full week. and they've shrunk the set-up required, so they can take a mobile rig on the road to record survivors close to where they live. they've deliberately chosen interview subjects with all different wartime experiences-- survivors of auschwitz, hidden children, and as we saw last fall in new jersey... >> alan moskin: gonna hook me up again, huh? >> yup. >> stahl: 93-year-old alan moskin, who isn't a holocaust survivor. he was a liberator. >> moskin: entering that camp was the most horrific sight i've ever seen or ever hope to see the rest of my life. >> stahl: moskin was an 18-year- old private when his army unit liberated a little-known concentration camp called gunskirchen. >> moskin: there was a pile of skeleton-like bodies on the left. there was another pile of skeleton like bodies on the right." those poor souls" that's the term my lieutenant kept screaming, "oh my god, look at

these poor souls." >> stahl: each of alan moskin's answers is then isolated by a team of researchers at the shoah foundation office. >> moskin: i remember the expression and the attitude of all of us, ¡what in the freak? what is this? god almighty. >> stahl: ...who add into the system a variety of questions people might ask to trigger that response. >> maio: for every question that we asked, there are 15 different ways of asking the same question. >> stahl: and that's fed in? >> maio: and that's all manual. >> stahl: editors rotate the image, turn the green screen background into black, and then a long process of testing begins, some of it in schools. >> so, mr. pinchas on your screen... >> stahl: students are asked to try it out, ask whatever questions they want, and see if te system calls up the correct answer. >> how did you find out that your city was getting invaded by germany? >> would you ever want to seek revenge? >> how did you feel about your

family? >> gutter: can you rephrase that, please? >> stahl: every question and response is then reviewed. >> maio: we log every single question that's asked of the system, and see if there is a better response that addresses that question more directly. >> stahl: as we discovered, it's still a work in progress. tell us about your family when you were a little boy. >> gutter: how about you ask me about life after the war? >> smith: so, couple of things about artificial intelligence. it is mainly artificial and not so intelligent. >> maio: just yet, for now. >> smith: but the beauty of artificial intelligence is it develops over time. so we aren't changing the content. all the answers remain the same. but over time, the range of questions that you can ask will be enhanced considerably. >> stahl: and you had to stay silent? questions to draw out what it was like for aaron elster hiding in that attic 75 years ago. >> elster: i used to pray to god

to let me live ¡til i was 25. i wanted to taste what adulthood would be like. >> stahl: the rest of that conversation with aaron elster, as well as one with a survivor of josef mengele's infamous twin experiments at auschwitz, when we come back. >> elster: so, am i a lucky guy? yes i am. ( ticking ) cbs money watch sponsored by lincoln unanimous,, helping you create a secure financial future. >> good evening. president trump will ask for more money as small business relief funds run out. ce i.r.s. will start sending $1,200 checks to americans this week, and oil hits an 18-year low amid virus lockdown and week, and oil hits an 18-year low amid virus lockdown and price wars. i'm karen lee, cbs news. over...

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on the mobile app, whaso let's do the rightver chanthing, today.ow. let's stay at home. let's wash up. let's always keep our distance - please, six feet apart at least. let's look after ourselves, as well as others. it will all be worth it. we can all do our part. so those on the front line can do their part. and when this is over, we will all, continue, to thrive. while keeping safe and staying in, we can still go out! -sort of. so while you're discovering new things to do in the box, we'll be here for you... at the drive-thru, on the mobile app, and with delivery. ( ticking ) >> pelley: this weekend, while we care for our families, we are

aware many families grieve for loved ones lost to the pandemic, perhaps telling their stories and finding some solace in shared memories. the power of shared memory lies at the heart of the shoah foundation's project to allow meaningful conversations with holocaust survivors, even after those survivors themselves are gone. of more than 20 men and women who have participated so far, three have already passed away. tonight, we are sharing lesley stahl's conversations with two of them-- conversations that at times felt so normal, lesley says she could almost forget she was talking with the digital image of someone no longer living. first, a spunky 4'9" woman named eva kor, an identical twin, who together with her sister survived auschwitz and the notorious experiments of dr. josef mengele.

eva kor spent her life after the war in terre haute, indiana. she died last summer at the age of 85. >> stahl: hi, eva. how are you today? >> eva kor: i'm fine, and how are you? >> stahl: i'm good. it felt natural to answer her question before posing my own. so how old were you when you went to auschwitz? >> kor: when i arrived in auschwitz, i was ten years old. and i stayed in auschwitz until liberation, which was about nine months later when we were liberated. >> smith: so we made a little announcement about the fact we were starting this project. i get a call the next day from a lady called eva kor. i didn't know her at that point in time. and she says, "i want to be one of those 3-d interviews." >> maio: "i want to be a hologram." >> smith: "--a hologram." i want to be a hologram. >> stahl: stephen smith, executive director of the u.s.c. shoah foundation, and his wife and colleague heather maio smith, were running the project.

>> smith: i said, "well, i'm traveling, i'm very sorry." "where're you going?" "oh, well, i've got to go new york. i'm going to d.c." "when are you gonna go to d.c.? i'm going to d.c." turns out we were going to the same event in d.c. i arrive at my hotel she's sitting in the lobby, waiting for me. >> stahl: when eva, on the right, and her twin sister miriam arrived at auschwitz, they were pulled away from their parents and older sisters and taken to a barrack full of twins. they never saw their family again. "60 minutes" reported on mengele's twin experiments in a story back in 1992, and we actually interviewed the living eva kor at her home in terre haute. eva told us then about becoming extremely sick after an injection. >> kor: mengele came in every morning and every evening, with four other doctors. and he declared, very

sarcastically, laughing, "too bad. she's so young. she has only two weeks to live. when i heard that, i knew he was right and i immediately made a silent pledge that i would prove you, dr. mengele, wrong. >> stahl: imagine picking up a conversation almost 30 years later and after eva's death. eva, tell us about dr. mengele. what was he like? >> kor: he had a gorgeous face, a movie star face, and very pleasant, actually. dark hair, dark eyes. when i looked into his eyes, i could see nothing but evil. people say that the eyes are the center of the soul, and in mengele's case, that was correct. >> stahl: eva and miriam are visible in footage taken by the

soviet forces that liberated auschwitz 75 years ago. they went back to the camp many times; eva continuing to go even after miriam's death in 1993. >> because the train came on that direction. >> stahl: it was on one of those visits that eva made a stunning announcement: >> kor: i, eva moses kor, >> stahl: ...that she had decided to forgive her nazi captors. >> kor: hereby give amnesty to all nazis who participated... >> stahl: she came under blistering attack from other survivors. how can you forgive? how is that possible? >> kor: my forgiveness does not mean that i forget what happened, which is impossible. my forgiveness is an act of self-healing, self-liberation, and self-empowerment. >> stahl: are you able to forgive, aaron? >> elster: i cannot forgive.

>> stahl: aaron elster disagrees. >> elster: for them to get forgiveness, they have to ask my little sister, sarah, whom they brutally murdered. i have no right to forgive, and i will not forgive. >> smith: what's important for me in this project is that we have holocaust survivors who have different points of view about god and religion and faith and forgiveness. and that's what this project wi allow us to do. >> stahl: aaron elster, unlike many holocaust survivors, never spent time in a concentration camp. as jews were being rounded up in his town's marketplace and sent to treblinka, his father told him to run. he was nine years old. >> elster: and i managed to crawl into the sewer that ran along the marketplace, the street, and kept crawling 'til i felt i was outta sight, stood up and started running. >> stahl: he made it to the building of an older polish couple named the gurskis who'd

been customers at his family's butcher shop. >> maio: he shows up. and she didn't want to take him. he started crying. and then she led him upstairs. >> stahl: aaron, how long did you stay in the attic? >> elster: i lived in that attic for close to two years. two years with just one visit a day to bring food and water. what was it like in the attic? >> elster: oh, there's so many things that i remember, the hunger, the fear, the absolute, total loneliness, what do you do all day? you're sitting there. i used to catch flies, out of desperation, and tear their wings off, so they wouldn't fly away, so i had 'em there. >> stahl: how did you survive? how did you survive in that attic? >> elster: i had the ability to daydream. i used to write novels in my

head. i was the hero all the time. and we have that ability-- to either give in to our misery and our pain and die or absorb the physical pain by keep your mentality, keep your soul, keep your mind. so was i bored? was i scared? was i in need of somebody to accept me or to tell me that i'm okay, that i'm a nice kid? sure. but that was not part of my life. >> smith: we got a phone call to say that aaron elster had suddenly passed away. i was at a conference at that time. so the next morning, i went into the-- little room that we had, and i turned on aaron elster's testimony. and i realized i was going to be the first person ever to click that little button and ask a question of somebody who was no

longer alive. and for the next six hours, people came in and out of that room. his funeral had not yet taken place, and yet the legacy was already continuing. and it was a very powerful and touching moment. >> maio: you're good. you're doing great. >> stahl: a touching moment that may soon be available to others beyond the community of holocaust survivors. >> maio: they're gonna come in, and they're gonna have you look. >> stahl: heather maio smith says in the process of developing and testing this technology, she was barraged with inquiries. >> maio: there wasn't one person, literally not one, that didn't ask me if they could do a similar interview with either a loved one, for themselves, >> stahl: unrelated to the holocaust? >> maio: unrelated, completely unrelated. "can i do this with someone that i know?" >> stahl: hat's the answer? >> maio: yes. >> stahl: she has started an independent company that is trying to expand the use of this technology. >> i was an astronaut for nasa. >> stahl: ...recording

interviews with other historical figures like astronauts, and eventually with anyone at all. >> maio: what unit were you in? >> stahl: so do you think that this is just going to be a tool that people will use-- everybody will be recording their histories-- >> maio: interactively-- >> stahl: and other people can interview them? >> maio: uh-huh. >> stahl: it'll just be life? >> maio: yeah. >> we're gonna go ahead and get started. >> stahl: for now, though, the race is on to capture interviews with as many holocaust survivors as possible while there's still time, so the conversations can continue, always, with people like aaron elster. do you want revenge? >> elster: when i was a youngster i wanted revenge very, very, very much, and i hated. i hated. but most of the perpetrators, most of the killers are dead. so who am i going to hate? the grandchildren that had nothing to do with?

it's not right. revenge is not part of my life, not part of my thinking. >> stahl: you know, here you have these people who were basically destined to be annihilated. that they survived is the miracle. but they were supposed to be murdered, killed. and now they have immortality. >> smith: they were not supposed to have a name. they were supposed to be destroyed for all time. and now, through this program, they will be able to continue to answer questions hundreds of years after the nazis have gone. >> stahl: it's that never forget. >> smith: we've had a lot of clichés around the holocaust. you know, "never again, never forget, we must remember," all this sort of thing. what this does, it makes sure that there isn't closure because it's not about a statement. it's not about a particular thing that's being instructed of you. the onus is on you to ask the questions. the onus is on you to be curious, and to want to know. and so in a sense, it turns the learning on its head and says, "i'm not going to tell you what the lessons of the holocaust

are. i'm not going to tell you what the holocaust means. but if you want to find out, then you can ask." >> gutter: it's so terribly important. >> stahl: so there we were, at a special moment in time when the living pinchas gutter could talk to the one who will live forever. would you ask you a question for us? >> gutter: i will ask the one which is my favorite. >> stahl: okay. >> gutter: can you sing me a song from your youth? you want me to sing it for you? yes, please. ♪ ♪ ( singing in polish ) >> stahl: what does that mean? what is the song? is it a happy song? >> gutter: yeah, well, it's a happy song. it's like a brother and a sister-- which of course, my twin sister-- are traveling in the woods or on the-- on the road, and they can't get over how beautiful the world is. >> stahl: oh my god. ♪ ♪

( singing in polish ) ( ticking ) staying inside saves lives. stay home, please stay home, stay home, we're gonna have to get creative in here. i really think togetherness is the super power of our species. let's do it together. we will keep each other company. i want you to meditate with me. let's get ready together. coming yoga with me each day could be a different thing. hi, guys. welcome back to another studying video. but first, some rock and roll. aghhhhhhhh! i want you guys to stay home and cook with me. this is the one you want to get. ooohhh!

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to understand what your wealth is really for. >> john dickerson: this week, the number of coronavirus deaths, worldwide, reached 60,000. a wife became a widow. a son never got to say goodbye to his father. at cbs, we lost the light of our beloved colleague maria mercader. this suffering is different. we are all a part of it.

but we also must keep moving. we are scared. distracted. trying to make it through the day. as we rush, though, we risk trampling on the grieving, especially when the deaths they mourn are totaled up for political fights. for thousands, everything will be defined as either "before" or "after" this hinge point in their life. so we should spare a moment for sorrow. this is what pledges to be in this together actually mean. we tell those who have lost their world that the rest of the world is not indifferent to their suffering. we acknowledge that getting back to normal will be impossible for many. we should spare a moment to say, "we see you. we feel your sorrow. you are not alone, even in this moment of deep loneliness." the human spirit endures, as lesley stahl showed us tonight. this virus will either drive us closer together or farther apart. let it be the former. i'm john dickerson. we'll be back next week, with

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access.wgbh.org good evening to you. i'm gayle king, and i'm at home tonight in new york city. chances are you're at home, too, surrounded by loved ones, keeping in touch with your loved ones, or maybe you're home alone. everything you're going to see tonight was shot with social distancing in mind. this is a strange and unsettling, weird time. it feels surreal, right? there's a lot of uncertainty about how long this is gonna last. but one thing we do know is the healing power of music. and nobody-- i mean nobody-- is better at using that power than country music artists. i love country music, and as many of you know, the academy of country music awards was supposed to take place tonight in las vegas. it was postponed, obviously, and it will take place in september.