deliver there he is? the man to deliver it? there he is.7 the man to deliver it? and there he is.7 the man to deliver it.7 and many recruitment agencies are making a not so small fortune supplying agency staff to a desperate nhs. let me ask you this. do you think this is basically all fair business, or is it exploitation? and an asylum seeker has said that he should be granted special status because as an olympic medal winner, should he be or not? and also, have you ever lost someone that you really, really love? would you take the opportunity then to get them to live on as an artificial intelligence bot? you can maybe talk to them, share your life with them . is share your life with them. is this a great way to combat your grief and loneliness, or is it a little bit weird? you tell me. got all of that? come. and marv even got a nice, happy story tonight. what a treat. but before we get stuck in, let's cross live for tonight's latest news headlines. >> very good evening to you. i'm

aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom. the chancellor has welcomed the bank of england's decision to hold its base rate, saying it's better not to rush into cutting interest rates. it has been left unchanged. therefore, for a sixth time at 5.25, the governor of the bank, andrew bailey, was optimistic. he's hinted a cut may come as early as june, but says that is by no means a done deal. jeremy hunt says things are improving. i welcome the fact that the bank of england has obviously thought about this very hard. >> they take this decision independently and i would much rather that they waited until they're absolutely sure inflation is on a downward trajectory. and rushed into a decision that they had to reverse at a later stage . what reverse at a later stage. what we want is sustainably low interest rates and i think what's encouraging is that the bank of england governor for the first time, has expressed real optimism that we're on that path. >> however, the shadow chief secretary to the treasury,

darren jones, says it's clear the economy hasn't turned a corner. >> bank of england's decision today is its independent right today is its independent right to make decisions about interest rates. but clearly that's bad for news people at home who are having to reset their mortgages for the years ahead at a more expensive rate, and people having to pay rent for their homes. and that's why the economy has not turned a corner, and why people at home are not feeling any uptick when they're told by conservative ministers doing victory laps this week that the country has turned a corner when it hasn't . corner when it hasn't. >> pro—palestinian protesters have been gathering in the swedish city of malmo ahead of the second eurovision semi—final . hundreds of demonstrators have been waving palestinian flags in the city's historic market square in opposition to israel's participation in the song contest . crowds were heard last contest. crowds were heard last night booing israel's performance , and organisers have performance, and organisers have been forced to apologise after sweden's eric saade wore a palestinian scarf. that is a breach of the contest's ban on

political symbols . labour's new political symbols. labour's new mp, natalie elphicke, apologised for comments she made about sexual assault. the mp for dover announced her defection from the tories to labour just moments before pmqs yesterday, but it's ignhed before pmqs yesterday, but it's ignited a backlash amongst some labour mps after comments miss elphick made in defence of her former partner, who was convicted of assaulting two women. however, the chair of the labour party, anneliese dodds, says mr elphick's been held to account. >> well, those were very , very >> well, those were very, very serious issues. the sexual assault that was rightly prosecuted. and of course there was a parliamentary process that followed that, including a parliamentary process that appued parliamentary process that applied to natalie elphicke. so it's absolutely right that there was accountability there. this is an incredibly important matter . every workplace, matter. every workplace, including parliament, has got to be free of sexual harassment. >> the number of people waiting for hospital treatment is still going up, despite the government's promise to end year long waits by next march . nearly

long waits by next march. nearly 310,000 people have been waiting longer than 52 weeks for routine treatment. last month. now, there's been some progress, with referrals for suspected cancer, slightly up from 64 to nearly 69. but it's still far short of the 85% target. downing street has blamed strike action. it insists the latest figures were a significant achievement in the context of industrial action within the health service . within the health service. stormy daniels was accused of profiting from a story involving a sexual encounter with donald trump , as lawyers sought to trump, as lawyers sought to undermine her credibility as a witness. the encounter is now at the centre of the former president's so—called hush money trial, and mrs. daniels says she signed a statement denying an affair with mr trump because she was told she had to. her lawyer has previously argued the statement was designed to be technically accurate by denying an affair without denying a sexual encounter. mr trump denies any wrongdoing and the case continues . the home office

case continues. the home office has removed figures on french efforts to stop small boat launches from its website . the launches from its website. the u—turn comes a little more than a week after it first started publishing the data. in an effort to show cooperation between french and uk authorities . the most recent authorities. the most recent figures had shown french authorities stopped more than 1000 migrants from launching boats since last week , and boats since last week, and police are appealing for help to locate two people suspected of stealing culturally significant gold artefacts from a museum . gold artefacts from a museum. cctv shows two people in hooded tops climbing through a window at the ely museum in cambridgeshire in the early hours of tuesday. an item called the east cambridgeshire gold torc was taken along with a gold bracelet. anyone with information is being asked to contact police or crime stoppers. more on all of our stories on our alerts gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to our website. now

it's back to . michelle. it's back to. michelle. >> thank you very much for that, aaron. i am michelle dewberry and i'm keeping you company until 7:00 tonight. alongside me, i've got the director of popular conservatives, mark littlewood, and the visiting professor at staffordshire university, tom buick. good evening to both of you. and also a very good evening to all of you at home, however you're watching or listening tonight, you're very welcome indeed. and as you know, it's not just about us. it is about you guys at home. what's on your mind tonight? get in touch with me all the usual ways. you can email me gb views @gbnews. com you can go to the website and chat to us there gbnews.com slash usa. or you can ex or tweet me. you can do whatever you want, just come and be part of the conversation tonight . of the conversation tonight. there's lots i want to discuss with you, the state of politics so far. i mean, i was just about to say so far this year, but never mind this year. this week it changes, doesn't it? it's an absolute mess. anyway dominic

cummings, he reckons he's got the answer. i'll get into all of that. of course you'd have seen as well. nadhim zahawi he's said that he's not going to stand at the next election. there's so much coming up tonight. i also want to talk. i think i said, i think i mentioned an olympic medallist at the start of the programme. i don't know why i was thinking of because what i actually meant was an elite athlete. should that be criteria enough to get you guaranteed asylum in this country or not? let me start off though, with a rare thing these days it feels like, which is some good news. let's lift our spirits, shall we, everybody? because i don't know if you've seen this story, but i think it's absolutely lovely. look, there's a little girl. she's actually from oxfordshire, she was born deaf. very deaf indeed, and she has now become the first person worldwide to take part in this brand new, therapy . it's gene brand new, therapy. it's gene therapy. actually, she was called europol. sandy, this little girl, and now her hearing is almost normal. she got treated, at addenbrooke's hospital in cambridge. i mean,

the footage of this is absolutely lovely because, you know , her, her sisters are deaf know, her, her sisters are deaf as well, but she has a cochlear implant out. and i just think when you hear the family describing this moment, when they realise that their little girl can hear so much better than before, and it's just the advances in technology and medicine and science. we're so lucky . lucky. >> bless you michelle and gb news for starting with the good news story. well, it's very rare andifs news story. well, it's very rare and it's incredible what technology can do. my grandfather went deaf. my father's going deaf. i'll probably end up going deaf, but thank god for this. i mean, i have no idea about what the science is behind it, but it is wonderful and great and i wonder whether actually in the, you know, 24 seven media of today, we should reflect a bit more on how the human race progresses forward. the good news is the fact that we're getting richer and safer and healthier. and what a great example of it. >> god bless tom.

>> god bless tom. >> well, we're talking about the nhs on the show tonight. yeah, of course, always those examples of course, always those examples of arguably wasted taxpayers money. i think it's just a great example where, you know , this is example where, you know, this is investment isn't it? in technology and in the treatments. >> it wasn't invented by the nhs. >> it wasn't. no. but the fact that they're just administering made available on the nhs and i think we should all champion that because this is literally being life changing. but really importantly, this will hopefully be, unlock the gates for other children who have this kind of. >> yeah, she this was a trial basically. so it was recruiting patients in the uk and the us and spain. i think china, are kind of trying out some of this technology as well. and it's deaf awareness week this week, actually, in case you're not familiar with that. and i've got to say, i do think that there is a lot of stigma, attached. it's one thing, you know, like, look, these glasses, we all kind of have no qualms in wearing glasses, do we? but i think still, very sadly, in this day and age, i think there is still and age, i think there is still a stigma around hearing loss, heanng a stigma around hearing loss, hearing aids and all the rest of it. and it's a real shame, actually, because not everyone

can hear as well as they ought to, and i don't even think it's an age thing. >> it. >> it. >> well, i guess it probably is an age thing. i mean, you generally tend to go your eyesight and your hearing tends to fail as you get older. as a rule, you think it's as a general rule. but michelle, you're right. i mean, i don't know whether you're long sighted or short sighted, but anyone who wears glasses says , i have a, wears glasses says, i have a, you know, a an eyesight issue . you know, a an eyesight issue. heanng you know, a an eyesight issue. hearing aids, not so much, especially for youngsters . especially for youngsters. >> i was with someone the other day, and i won't mention who it was because they they will be watching and shouting. don't tell the story. and i was repeating myself all the time . repeating myself all the time. and when i kept saying you've got to get your hearing tested, they were saying there's nothing wrong with my hearing. and i was saying, there really is like, you're repeating yourself. and they were saying, i can hear perfectly fine, thank you very much. but they really couldn't. if you're watching, you know exactly who you are that i'm talking about. anyway, what a lovely, lovely story . great news lovely, lovely story. great news for that family, and hopefully, you know, we'll see these kind

of trials and the positive results to that broadened out. let me know if you're affected by that issue in any way. but of course i need to move on to the goings on politically. do you remember this fella on sunday, the 12th of april, 15 days after he'd first after i first displayed symptoms , i decided to displayed symptoms, i decided to return to work. >> my wife was very worried , >> my wife was very worried, particularly given my eyesight had seemed to seem to have been affected by the disease. she did not want to risk a nearly 300 mile drive with our child, given how ill i had been , we agreed how ill i had been, we agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if i could drive safely. >> so you see, it's not just ears we all need to be concerned about, and our hearing. oh, no. sight is very, very important too , that. of course. dominic too, that. of course. dominic cummings. now, the reason i'm bringing him up this evening is he's given what i think is a very interesting interview today, i recommend you all read it . actually, i think it was in it. actually, i think it was in the i newspaper. i've got to say, i agreed with a lot of what he was saying. he was talking a

lot about the fact that politics is broken in this country. he believes that it needs a complete new reset. he uses quite colourful language that i want, you know, i want people's hair curl whilst i'm having their tea, but he's very, very damning about the tories, about laboun damning about the tories, about labour, about, the post—brexit opportunities being squandered. he really says that we need kind of like a seismic change. he goes on about it, he wants to set up something that he calls a start up party, which he says talks to, you know, real people as opposed to the westminster bubble and old media and focusing on getting on the bbc today programme and all the rest of it. what do you make to this? is this what we need? and this he, the man to deliver it , i no he, the man to deliver it, i no be no . i've got a lot of time be no. i've got a lot of time for john cummings. i don't know forjohn cummings. i don't know him well, but i have known him for a very long time, 30 years or so. he's got a brain. the size of planet venus, he is an

incredibly interesting and engaging character, but i think he doesn't understand party politics, but that's probably a good thing. many people will be saying good, we need less party politicking. >> well, i mean, how should we conduct elections? you might say, michel, i, i think i've got this right. back in the day, you ran as an independent in your own seat, and you did brilliantly well as an independent. you held your deposit. i think i did, but basically you need mainstream political parties. you need to get together tens of thousands of people who broadly agree on a proposition, tens of thousands in order to run a national election, probably hundreds of thousands in order to campaign. i don't think tom cummings is the man for that. he is right to say that the conservative party is an incredibly low ebb. but over my entire lifetime time, there have been endless attempts to get some new start up party to get some new start up party to march to the sunlit uplands and change the duopoly of

british politics. when i was a young boy, the sdp tried it. i think they won the highest number of seats they won was six. in a general election , the six. in a general election, the social democrats ukip tried it. the highest number of seats they won in a general election was one. i think it's probably better to try and influence the two main parties and to get them to change. if you're on the left and dissatisfied with the labour party, try and influence them. if you're on the right and dissatisfied with the tory party, try and influence them. and indeed, i'm in the second lane.i and indeed, i'm in the second lane. i would like to change the conservative party i don't think it's fit for purpose at the moment, but i think in 10 or 20 years time it will probably be doing better than the dom cummings party. tom buick, dom cummings party. tom buick, dom cummings may have a brain the size of the planet, but i think he's got the personal mannerisms of a cesspit . of a cesspit. >> i mean, reading that press release, why not a repeat notable on air? i think that just shows in a sense, he debases our politics and, you know, you can have huge

ideological differences. i think one of the problems now, you were talking on last night's show about the uni party is that there aren't enough ideological differences and you might say, a battle of real ideas about where we take this country forward, that said, i mean, the prescription are we ruled over by a technocratic elite that pretty much thinks the same, acts the same. you see it in parliament in terms of the background of mps? absolutely. do we need to shake that system up, both at national level and in other levels of government across these islands? yes, we do. is dominic cummings the answer to that? no, he isn't, in part because i you know, i think he does debase our politics. that clip there that you just showed, was frankly vie. i mean, it was surreal. it was. yes, minister, almost in terms of his response , it was about as far response, it was about as far away from the real dominic cummings as you could possibly go in this press release today. i think we saw the real well, he's not suggesting he should be the leader of this party. >> right. one of the things i

admire about him is he's a remarkably unashamed, vicious man. actually, he's not trying to become prime minister he's not like the farce we saw with monty panesar trying to become a member of parliament. he's just lobbying this in as a grenade and seeing how people react . and seeing how people react. >> you're right, mark, but i think you said something really interesting actually. and your first intervention, which is about, influencing the existing party structure when you look at the vote shares going back to second world war, labour and conservative get around about 80% of the vote in a general election, give or take a couple of percent. you use the example of percent. you use the example of the social democratic party in the 80s. they've just stood a candidate in london who marginally managed to beat count binface , in terms of the share binface, in terms of the share of the vote, just over 1.6% or something. so it shows that even where you've got established brands like the sdp , it's very brands like the sdp, it's very hard to harvest those votes at the ballot box, which is why i think what dominic cummings actually should be doing is he should be getting on the phone

to richard tice, offering his services to the reform party because they are at least an alternative to the conservatives as a centre right force. and what they're polling at 13% of the share. close to the conservatives. indeed, that is something to build on. >> well, he talks about he talks about nigel farage actually, because he's basically saying that he reckons the tory party are constantly fretting about what nigel farage is going to do next, and he says , they said to next, and he says, they said to him, do you reckon nigel farage would be welcome in your new start up party? and he says no, because farage is basically the same as all the other mps. his orientation is towards the daily telegraph and the today programme. no, he's saying that his orientation is the same as the other mps. so he's saying that he's driven more towards connecting with the telegraph and the today programme , and he and the today programme, and he thinks it's highly, highly unlikely that's his quote, that farage would ever become an mp . farage would ever become an mp. he says there's a limit on his support, he says popular with a set of people. but he would probably be capped at 15 to 20% of the vote. he doesn't think he

would get a beyond, say like 40% marker that we're talking about. he talks as well, about marker that we're talking about. he talks as well , about ukraine, he talks as well, about ukraine, which i thought was interesting. i don't know if you looked at this stuff. he was actually saying that getting into the situation where we've literally kind of really kind of got in deeply when it comes to backing and supporting ukraine, he says , and supporting ukraine, he says, was the absolutely wrong move. he does use lots of choice language. this is what i'm saying. so i can't read a lot of it out directly for you. but he basically says he calls, ukraine a corrupt mafia state that has basically conned us all. and now we're going to get bleeped as a consequence, he says, and he thinks that it was the wrong thing to do. he says that involving ourselves the way we have with ukraine, all it's really achieved, not punishing russia, but driving russia deeper into the bosom of china. >> well, i mean, again , >> well, i mean, again, michelle, i'll go back to my first point. dominic cummings is an extremely interesting commentator, even if he

occasionally uses expletives. i think he concedes in his interview. sorry i'm late. i was up drinking till 3 am. i don't hold that against him and he may have some interesting things to say about ukraine. i do think there is a case that we have, pivoted to a position in which zelenskyy is treated like some saint and probably isn't. but what's he going to do here? he hates the conservative party. he hates the conservative party. he hates the conservative party. he hates the labour party. he's not willing to work with nigel farage, he has a particular foreign policy. he wants this party to take, which is presumably to pull out of ukraine. this is an interesting piece of editorial content from a very smart man. it is not a new political party by any size, shape or form. and it can't be because for all of dominic cummings brilliant talents, he can't work with people and working with people is pretty much the second rule of politics. the first one is being

able to add up. >> what do you make to it, would you be intrigued, tempted, perhaps to dabble with another party? i always think one of the most important facets of this next election are going to be how do you get the people that are not engaged that typically do not vote? how do you galvanise those people into turning out and voting? do you reckon that this perhaps dominic cummings ideas could be the way forward ? would it would it forward? would it would it motivate you and change your, actions when it comes to the next general election or not? also, did you see as well nadhim zahawi, he said that he's not going to stand at the next election. i'll touch on that as well after the break. but i want to ask you, nhs is in a mess. you've got so many recruitment agencies now making a small fortune by supplying expensive agency workers to the nhs. is that fair or not? see you in

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you until 7:00 tonight. the director of the popular conservatives, mark littlewood and the visiting professor of staffordshire university, tom bullock, remain a alongside me. i'm very happy with mark littlewood because in that break, he's just reminded me that i am indeed owed a few quid. i did indeed get my deposits back and i forgot to go and pick it up. after all the excitement and all of the needing to sleep for about a week afterwards, i completely forgot to get my get your money, michelle, i will. i wonder if i can charge interest. >> that would be interesting. i'm not sure you win that battle, but they'll probably give you your money back. >> well, yeah. there you go. interesting look who's this. cass says it sounds to me that all the people who shout the loudest about broken britain are the ones that have done their best to break it or have voted against attempts to make it better, shirley says what absolute nonsense these two guests are saying. she means you two, she says, do you remember when dom cummings spoke about culling the civil service? he won two elections. he knows what the people want , lucia says i'd the people want, lucia says i'd love to see dominic cummings

make a comeback. i always. and then she talks about , carrie then she talks about, carrie symonds. she. she basically is blaming all of the, the things that have happened, on boris, on his wife . really. and i'm not his wife. really. and i'm not sure i, i share that nelson says bnng sure i, i share that nelson says bring it on, dominic. the more the merrier. they fed up . he the merrier. they fed up. he says, with the tories, labour. labour libs need more on the block. so why not get new rules to stop new parties? he says the whole thing needs a shake up . whole thing needs a shake up. dominic and his party would be a disaster, says chris, creating a new political party is not like running the brexit campaign . and running the brexit campaign. and lee says, whatever next? we're going to be hearing that matt hancock is going to share shake up the country and sort it all out. he says. all of this? yeah, all of these people need to get all of these people need to get a grip. but dale makes interesting point. he says the problem is, he feels his words that we're stuck with the main two parties, and he says it's not worth voting anymore in the uk. >> listen, i really understand this. i'm a member of the

conservative party, and i think it was another viewer, michelle, who said, you know, i agree with john cummings about the civil services in control. i agree with john cummings about that. i agree with his view of the blob and that we need to change it. i'm just trying to be practical here. is there anyone who thinks, even with the conservative party at its lowest ebb at the moment, that there are any more than two parties who are competing for government in britain? there aren't. now, we might have arguments about whether you want to bring in proportional representation, change the voting system or the rest of it, but i would prefer that john cummings provided his influence through a think tank. >> i think that's so wrong, though. by the way, that what you just said that if you if you anyone thinks that there's more than two parties, essentially you're delusional. >> i know there are more than two, but they can't form a government. >> i know what you're saying. >> i know what you're saying. >> they can't form a government. >> they can't form a government. >> they can't form a government. >> the green party, george galloway's worker workers party, reform uk cannot win an election due to the rules. you might want to change the rules, but the facts of the matter are there's

either going to be a conservative prime minister or a labour prime minister. if we wish to change the rules, let's change them and have a discussion about that. but them's are the rules at the moment. and i would rather don cummings was, you know , cummings was, you know, influencing those parties rather than trying to set up another one. i think there are 400 political parties in britain registered in the electoral commission. >> it's a joke, though in it what really disturbs me about this debate, though, is it often comes back to, well, let's just blame the civil service. >> and don't get me wrong, you know, we need massive reform. and dom talking about how overcentralised this country is compared to other advanced countries. he's absolutely right about that. but we've got to remember who has been in control of those levers of power since 2010. david cameron said in 2010, i'll 2010. david cameron said in 2010, m get 2010. david cameron said in 2010, i'll get the deficit down. i won't cut the nhs. well, he was right about not cutting the nhs. real term spending has gone up, but the national debt has gone up from 43% of gdp under gordon brown to nearly 100. that's the size of the whole cake. >> the whole there has been a

massive global pandemic in between. >> well, gordon brown had the 2008 financial crash. there's always an excuse for effectively not building enough houses, spending more on debt, interest in terms of, well, we spend less on schools than we do on debt interest. the truth is, we've had a government in charge for the last 14 years, five years of that with the lib dems that have failed to actually address the issues that occupy the minds of the vast majority of british voters , which is about housing. voters, which is about housing. it's about transport, it's about education, it's about health. yeah, but they've taken their eye off the ball. >> all the parties were in cahoots about desperately wanting to lock us down for goodness knows how long. i think labour probably would have had us locked down for longer. and when you lock everybody down, the hand in hand policy was to print money like it was going out of fashion to do stuff like buy people's dinner when they went out. >> well, michelle, i think that's a separate point. but where i agree with you is and it makes me weep now even to think about it. we've we put a debt of

about it. we've we put a debt of about £300 billion onto our grandchildren and great grandchildren and great grandchildren to pay off that. frankly, if that money had been used just a fraction of that money to invest in our infrastructure, digital infrastructure, digital infrastructure, the railways into our fe colleges, skills and apprenticeships , i'm not so sure apprenticeships, i'm not so sure we'd have a different kind of economy, the young. >> is that the point? >> is that the point? >> i'm not so sure because he just wants to cut taxes. >> i don't think the government is very good at making investment decisions. hs2 two would be exhibit a, a catastrophic investment decision. when i was a young person, concorde was supposed to be the great thing the government was going to invest in. i do agree with you, however, that we need to take a longer look at the actual numbers and if we are going to lock down, and i was mildly in favour of the first one, but then i lost patience. we've got to be honest with the british people, the cost of the lockdown means next year we're going to have to cut the education budget by 10, pensions by 15, the defence budget by 12. that's the

cost of lockdown. we cannot pretend we are in a crisis every year and we're going to pay it back when the good times roll for the last 15 years i've been told about the banking crisis, the brexit crisis, the covid crisis. okay if there is a problem, spend more in the bad times. but then you need to actually be prudent in the good times. we haven't been well, that's keynesian demand management, which i'm a big fan of . of. >> but i'll just take you back to the end of the keynes would be absolutely spinning in his grave on what country had as high a tax burden in 1948 as we've got now. yet a labour prime minister still managed to build hundreds of thousands of homes, cleared the slums . we got homes, cleared the slums. we got comprehensive education eventually, after the tripartite system universities expanded and therefore opportunity for professional and white collar jobs and growth was about 3.5% a yeah jobs and growth was about 3.5% a year. it's an anaemic 1.2. now we've got the chancellor of the exchequer going on the tv, parading that as some kind of economic. so what's keir starmer

going to do to change that? well, this is part of the issue. i think. you know, we haven't seen the labour manifesto yet. the 1 in 45 was called face the future. he's got to face the electorate in less than a year's time. >> i think he's he's got to face the electorate with a programme that, as i say, comes back to the bread and butter issues that most british people care about. >> well, let's see if it happens. let me ask you this. so the nhs is in an absolute state at the moment. we all know that many recruitment companies now though, are making quite tidy profits mark from supplying agency staff to the nhs in their times of need. so one report out today shows that they're actually charging the nhs £2,000 actually charging the nhs £2,000 a shift, the worker themselves was getting about a grand and a bit . the agency was getting bit. the agency was getting about £800, so about a 40% commission on that. is this just bafic commission on that. is this just basic capitalism , fair markets, basic capitalism, fair markets, or is it people exploiting the nhs troubles ? nhs troubles? >> the nhs is a complete catastrophe and we have to reform it. root and branch. it is pretty much the worst health care system in the democratic west . its results are simply

west. its results are simply appalling . tens of thousands of appalling. tens of thousands of british people die every year compared to systems in western europe , which actually managed europe, which actually managed to keep people alive. what i'm measuring here is you're diagnosed with an illness or you have a stroke or a heart attack. what's your chance of being alive five years later? britain is right at the bottom of the schedule here. it is an embarrassment . schedule here. it is an embarrassment. i do schedule here. it is an embarrassment . i do not know why embarrassment. i do not know why we have elevated this particular model of health care to something like a national religion. what we need to do is to say this the principle of the nhs, that everybody is covered rich and poor, all of you can get service rich and poor, and it needs to be high quality . i it needs to be high quality. i support all of that. germany, switzerland , holland, france, switzerland, holland, france, belgium, you name it. have a much more marketized system. and if you run this system on a socialist basis, you're going to get queues and we've got queues and then people are coming in saying, i think i can sort your

queue, but we are running our health care in the same way that the ussr ran food. it's a catastrophe and it's not run like a socialist planned service at all. >> it's actually quite decentralised to these trusts. it's these trusts that are making these decisions to buy these specialist nurses at £2,000 a year, there's no market, there's no price mechanism, there is no market. but i actually i mean, why i disagree with you on this is that i think this is what actually is a great example of where capitalism is broken, because you've got here firms. i saw it in the foster care, area as well. when i was a councillor responsible for children in care. we'd have these private agencies charging 3 or 4 times the amount of what we could pay as a local authority. but this isn't like a market economy where you've got private aspect of care in the nhs or care for vulnerable young people . i think vulnerable young people. i think these prices should be regulated. fine. let these companies make a 1,020% profit.

but 80% profit margin. >> do you think agency workers should be regulated in the health care sector? i do in any other sector, the hospitality sector, we had liz truss, you know very well who was prepared to bring in an energy price cap in order to keep household bills a short term emergency. >> well, we've got a short term. well, we've got more than the short term emergency. >> we've got a permanent nhs in the nhs permanently allow a system where we've effectively got private firms that cream off pubuc got private firms that cream off public money by offering these stellar salaries. just adopt the dutch system now . dutch system now. >> well i'd like to see the swedish system actually where we, the swiss system . well, you we, the swiss system. well, you know, we have a universal system. we're agreed on that. free at the point of clinical need. but it's not free. of course, it's got to be paid for. i think the general taxation pot is bust, not least because we as voters have got no direct line of sight to it. we don't know other than the global figures. i'd like to see a hypothecated tax people through their payroll, pay towards the social insurance and social care , a insurance and social care, a social insurance particularly. we're potentially going to

aboush we're potentially going to abolish national insurance in the future. and this current government is on that trajectory i >> -- >> but really important we need and then private companies competing to provide the best service. >> yeah. in sweden it works as part of a mixed economy. it works everywhere. >> i don't have a problem with that. >> but the current model, you're right, which was built for a time, 1948, july 1948, when the health service came in. it cost in today's money £11 billion a yeah in today's money £11 billion a year. we're now spending upwards of 140, £150 billion a year, in part because pretty much the worst health care system in the western world. actually. i check the figures on this earlier mark. it's 33 in the world. not a great ranking. 33 in the world according to the richest country on the planet in terms of health care outcomes. and that's why we need a debate about health care outcomes, because it should be a national health service, not a national health service, not a national sickness service, which is increasingly what it's not a national religion either. no. i agree, do you regard the nhs as agree, do you regard the nhs as a national religion? >> let me just tell you this, to according foi requests, between 2020 and 2022, nhs trusts in

england spent a turtle. in fact, you tell me, how much do you think they spent between 2020 and 2022 on agency staff? that's your homework. you can think about that during the break and tell me whether or not you think the nhs is a religion. also if you're an elite athlete, do you think you should be granted special status when it comes to seeking asylum in this country? see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00 tonight. alongside the directory of popular conservative is mark littlewood and visiting professor of staffordshire university, tom buick. lots of you getting in touch about this , you getting in touch about this, nhs situation. one of the viewers on the website says the problem is not that the nhs michelle. it is the fact that actually it's become the wales nhs and that's why you feel that we are struggling .jim, as well

we are struggling. jim, as well on the website says, we should be making it the national health service, not the international health service. that would fix many of the problems . this whole many of the problems. this whole agency stuff, lots of people. joanne on the website says should contracted nhs nurses be able to sign on for those agencies or for the bank that also pay enhanced rates , peter, also pay enhanced rates, peter, says michelle, we should block all agency workers from the nhs, invest more in local in—house training and returned to the srn and the seven nurses roles. and he says once agency work is stopped, there would be a massive return to the nhs of those staff that perhaps are now deciding to work for the agencies instead. lots of you getting in touch, actually, that do work for the nhs. and you're saying to me that you believe that some of your colleagues train and then they specifically leave the nhs to join these nurse banks so that they can basically work whenever they

want ? i get a sense as well, want? i get a sense as well, that they seem to be a bit of friction coming through between the staff, the nurses that are on staff pay working alongside somebody who's chosen to be on that bank or agency, earning multiples of what you perhaps are, martin says simply nursing agencies should not exist this entire thing undermines the whole purpose for the creation of the nhs. there you go, look, we talk about the asylum seeker system often, don't we? and now there's a story that caught my eye. a talented cyclist, apparently from iran . he is apparently from iran. he is seeking asylum in this country. he's been asked, apparently, to move to the bibby stockholm whilst he's getting processed is a world champion medallist, and he and there's been suggestions that elite sports people perhaps be given exceptions when wanting to move to the uk . should there to move to the uk. should there be mark? >> absolutely not. i mean, what's weird here? look, i don't really know much about cycling as a sport, michel, but if this

guy is elite as a cyclist, i presume he's 26 years old. so that's roughly at the peak of your athletic career. i would suggest he's presumably only earning a total ton of money. he doesn't need to apply for asylum. he can just apply for immigration. fine. we don't have any problem bringing in 26 year old brazilian footballers to play old brazilian footballers to play for manchester united or arsenal or manchester city, so if this guy can earn a living at this elite site , cling, good this elite site, cling, good luck to him. but if he is claiming that he is only here and can't earn a living and is fleeing persecution, in the fact that you can ride a bicycle should be treated no differently to any other human being. >> he's saying that they puts him the home office, put him in a hotel in reading eight months ago. he says that gave him a new for hope his career. he built up a support network, but then what he's saying is because he has to then potentially move to where then potentially move to where the bibby stockholm is, he's going to then lose that support

network. he says he won't be able to race his talent and positive mental attitude will be slammed back down to zero because apparently there's no racetracks, no road races, no racetracks, no road races, no race teams, and there's nowhere for him to take his bike on board. and that's biking gives him something to aim for and makes him happy. >> i can't comment on his individual circumstances or even, you know, the veracity of his claim for asylum. but what i will say, michel, is just as we speak right now, there are special rapporteurs in the united nations trying to get a stay of execution for a rapper. would you believe a musician in iran that has been sentenced to death because he has been critical in his rapping of the iranian regime? that is a fact. so there's a very strong likelihood that this individual is fleeing persecution , is fleeing persecution, certainly is fleeing a very distasteful regime , as we well distasteful regime, as we well know, on the issue about the bike and the bibby stockholm. i mean, it was always my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong, that asylum seekers are not prisoners, whether it's on the barge or indeed in prison,

he can go out somewhere else. i don't quite really get the connection between a hotel in redding and a barge that's offering accommodation to him, and his inability vie seemingly to practice or train. but this is quite understand , isn't it? is quite understand, isn't it? >> i mean, you just mentioned i wasn't aware of the story. a rapper who might face the death penalty in iran, but we wouldn't grant him asylum on the grounds that he's a rapper. we'd grant him asylum on the grounds that he's facing capital punishment. this guy's claim is that he should be granted asylum on the grounds that he can ride a bicycle. well, those are not grounds upon which you get asylum. well, i don't know if he can adduce evidence that he is facing execution in iran. i'm all ears if he's such a good cyclist that he can earn money, i'm all ears as well. and he can go through the normal immigration route. >> well, again, that's another thing that is particularly curious, actually about this case, because there are visas for people who have exceptional talent. i mean, this clearly is a person of exceptional talent

in that particular sport, but not much money. >> apparently. >> apparently. >> he's he's you know, he's well, technically, people who are on the olympics are amateurs. they don't huge. i mean, they earn their money outside of the sport with sponsors ships. but it just strikes me if he really is that talented and we know we can't really we're not going to be able to remove him, are we? to certainly not to rwanda or back to iran. so why isn't the british olympic association reaching out to this individual? let's get him a passport. he could be in the next olympics, compete for britain. >> exactly what team gb, fair play. >> care for calais? they've got involved and said they do think that this person's mental health would be gravely at risk if he was sent to live on the bibby stockholm badge. for an elite cyclist like mohamed, the prospect of not being able to train with his local club or compete in races they say is unimaginable. they lots of people, lots of people getting in touch. still, it's really what you're talking about. this one, the agency nurses , david on one, the agency nurses, david on the website, says we know some nurses that have taken early

retirement and then they've returned to an agency to work for a few days to make their money. he says that should not be allowed. do you think it should or not? i'll tell you that figure of what they spent, by the way, on the agency workers by the end of the program. but after the break, if you've lost someone that you really, really loved, would you want to create an ai chatbot of them? essentially to keep them alive? you could talk to them, interact with them, would that cure your loneliness and your grief, or is it a little bit weird? tell me your thoughts. see you in two.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry with you till 7:00. alongside me. remain my panel. the director of popular conservatives, mark littlewood and the visiting professor of staffordshire university, tom bewick. i can tell you, you really are still talking about this nhs situation , ian says

this nhs situation, ian says it's simple. they have to just pay a it's simple. they have to just pay a fair rate to all the nurses on the nhs and then people wouldn't feel a need to go to the on to the bank. one of my other viewers is saying, well, hang on a second, because so many people seem to be striking, over pay, are they? then while striking, then going off and doing this work with the agencies for a small fortune? there you go. tell me your thoughts and your experience. you might have experienced directly of some of this. tell me what you make to it all. now, have you ever lost somebody that you really, really do love? if you really, really do love? if you have, would you grasp with both hands the opportunity to almost, if you will bring them back to life ? if i'm speaking back to life? if i'm speaking about artificial intelligence, there's things now called ghost bots. i hate saying stuff like that with my accent, but yeah, ghost bots. and what you would do is you would interact with artificial intelligence. you'd give them the information about your loved one. it's quite basic at the moment. it's almost like texting back and forth.

>> no, but i think they can replicate the voice of your loved the voice. >> it will be the imagery. it will be, whether it's holograms or whatever. and it will be almost like a likeness. and i'm wondering, first of all, would you do that ? you do that? >> no, i find it a bit too icky myself . i'm not >> no, i find it a bit too icky myself. i'm not a very sentimental person, and i would find this a bit disturbing, but i don't think it should be banned or prevented. >> no. >> no. >> and of course, we've done it in old fashioned ways before. i don't have many pictures of friends and family in my flat, but many people do. and pictures of people who've left them. there's granddad a picture of me with him . he's no longer here. with him. he's no longer here. i even know some people who keep, you know, the ashes in the urn on the mantelpiece. that's a bit brutal for me. i wouldn't do that. but this is just a modern iteration of this, isn't it? we want things to remember our loved ones by once they've passed on. we used to do pictures. we sometimes do ashes. now we've got ai. >> but it's not necessarily for you. tom, would you do it?

>> personally, i wouldn't, but i am wondering at what point the psychologists are going to get involved in this debate. i'm not a qualified psychologist, by the way, who may actually point to mental health problems as a result of people perhaps not coming to terms with grief and mourning. in a way, if you've got some, you know, essentially through ai, a grief bot, a death bot, it may help them as well in front . it may help them. but front. it may help them. but that's why, i mean, look, let's for reserve comment until we see what the psychologists say. but i will just reemphasize your point, mark, about the fact that we've been on this planet for around 300,000 years in one form or another. you look at cave paintings, you look at, stonehenge, you look at the afterlife hieroglyphs in the valley of the kings. we've always had a sense of how do we come to terms with our own mortality? how do we somehow preserve that mortality when we've gone? >> you guys are getting such , >> you guys are getting such, pollyanna, you just made me really sad because you've just said , when i want to see my two said, when i want to see my two year old son smile, who passed away, i stop and i look at his

photographs. i'm so sorry that that's been your experience. i really am. pete says i missed my father so much. he died in 1989. he was a dunkirk veteran. he says, i would just love to talk to him again, other people are saying that al is the devil's work, and this is essentially it's for all to see, lots of like glenn says, i just would not do it, the lifetime, yeah . not do it, the lifetime, yeah. you just an ai copy has an ai copy. just wouldn't be the same. and what if this is quite interesting? he says, what if this bot didn't act the way that you would have wanted them to act? he says, well, that essentially of tarnished your opinion of your loved one. i lost my sister very tragically when she was 19 years of age, and it really upsets me because i can't remember her voice anymore . and i think, would anymore. and i think, would i use a service like this ? i mean, use a service like this? i mean, is it healthy to try and keep

people alive when it's not real, or is it healthier? >> right. yeah >> right. yeah >> is it healthier to let grief kind of, take its process, again, you are absolutely divided on that one. the future , divided on that one. the future, who knows what that future will look like. it's almost quite scary , isn't it, when we think scary, isn't it, when we think what might happen anyway, that total 3.2 billion was what. trust in england spent on agency staff between 2020 and 2022. there you go. ponder that. thank you , gents, for the debate you, gents, for the debate tonight. thank you at home for your company. i will see you tomorrow. farage up next night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest weather update from the met office here on gb news. another cracking day tomorrow. if you like it, fine, warm and sunny, if anything. a little bit warmer than today with light

winds thanks to this chunky area of high pressure. hasn't been fine everywhere today there has been these weather fronts just trickling across northern scotland, still bringing some outbreaks of rain , particularly outbreaks of rain, particularly for caithness, sutherland and spreading across the northern isles. but a patchy rain at times across aberdeenshire too. but for most it's dry and fine out there. generally clear skies, a bit of mist and low cloud returning to parts of eastern england and a few fog patches are possible in the south, where temperatures in the countryside could dip down to 3 or 4 celsius. most towns and cities there , starting tomorrow cities there, starting tomorrow at 10 or 11 celsius, and most will start tomorrow with plenty of sunshine. and for many it'll just stay that way. we will see again some misty conditions around a few coasts, particularly perhaps east anglia, east coast of northern ireland, southwest scotland and a bit more cloud moving into the western isles through the day. but any early rain across shetland should clear for most, it's fine, sunny spells and warmer than today , 21 to 23, warmer than today, 21 to 23, maybe 24 or even 25 and 1 or 2 locations. another fine day to

come on saturday again, the possibility of some mist and low cloud affecting eastern coast . cloud affecting eastern coast. the small chance of 1 or 2 isolated but heavy showers over northern england and southern scotland, but for many fine again, and if anything, a little warmer, 2425 degrees, a little cooler around some coasts. goodbye >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> prime minister sunak calls a meeting in downing street to discuss growing antisemitism on university campuses . i'll be university campuses. i'll be asking tonight, should the protest that we're seeing be closed down and stopped, as they have been in many american universities, british gas say they want to mandatorily put in smart metres into our homes over

my dead body, say i. and in south africa, there's a general election coming up in a couple of weeks time. there's a new political party with a leader, gayton mckenzie, who is being called the black african trump. he joins us live from cape town. hold on to your hats for that one. but before the program, let's get the news with aaron armstrong . armstrong. >> very good evening to you. i'm aaron armstrong, the chancellor has cautioned the bank of england against cutting interest rates too quickly . the bank has rates too quickly. the bank has decided to hold borrowing costs at the same level. 5.25% for a sixth time. but governor andrew bailey says he's optimistic inflation will continue to fall and has suggested an interest rate cut could come as soon as next month. jeremy hunt urged the bank not to take risks with inflation. >> i welcome the fact the bank of england has obviously thought about this very hard. they take this decision independently and