gb news. >> good evening. as a moroccan asylum seeker is convicted of murder, i asked the question. why does nobody want to talk about these things? labour. plaid to renationalise the railways. they put out a big, bold statement today. the funny thing is, 70% of the public at this moment in time seem to agree with them. and on talking pines, i'm joined by tim shipman. tim, who is political editor of the sunday times, author of many political books. i'll ask him how the conservative party recovered from brexit or have they? but before all of that, let's get the news with tatiana sanchez . the news with tatiana sanchez. >> nigel. thank you. the top stories this evening. tensions are high in edinburgh this evening with the scottish greens planning to vote against first minister humza yousaf in a vote of no confidence . it's after the of no confidence. it's after the snps power sharing deal with the greens collapsed this morning,

leaving mr yousaf in charge of a minority government. losing the vote wouldn't automatically spell the end for mr yousaf, but it would throw serious doubt over his ability to govern the no confidence motion was proposed by scottish conservative leader douglas ross, who branded the snp leader weak and a failed first minister. moroccan asylum seeker ahmed khalid has been convicted of murdering a 70 year old man in hartlepool. terence carney was 70 years old. alfred stabbed him six times in what was intended as revenge for the israel—hamas conflict. our gb news reporter anna reilly has more. a jury at teesside crown court has found that 45 year old moroccan asylum seeker ahmed al fayed is guilty of the murder of terence carney, a 70 year old pensioner who was fatally stabbed in hartlepool centre on the 15th of october for eight days on from when hamas attacked

israel. the jury also found that al—ahd was guilty for the attempted murder of his housemate javid nouri, who he lived with in home office accommodation for asylum seekers in hartlepool, and that this attack was motivated because his housemate had converted from islam to christianity. he will be sentenced here at teesside crown court on the 17th of may. in other news, a 13 year old schoolgirl has been charged with three counts of attempted murder after two teachers and a teenage pupil were stabbed at a school in wales. a man valley school was put into lockdown yesterday when the student carried out the attack. the victim's injuries are not life threatening and they have since been released from hospital . while the attack from hospital. while the attack was halted when a heroic teacher, daryl campbell, intervened, placing the attacker intervened, placing the attacker in an arm lock until emergency services arrived . a 15 year old services arrived. a 15 year old boy has been arrested and

remains in police custody on suspicion of making threats, referencing the stabbing incident . donald trump says that incident. donald trump says that us presidents must be immune from the threat of prosecution. it comes as his hush money case continues today in a separate case, the us supreme court is heanng case, the us supreme court is hearing arguments for why he should be immune from charges related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election. mr trump spoke outside court early this morning. >> constitutional rights have been taken away from me, but every single expert , every legal every single expert, every legal scholar, every respected scholar has said this is no case. there is no case here. the argument on immunity is very important. the president has to have immunity. this has nothing to do with me. this has nothing to do with me. this has nothing to do with me. this has to do with a president in the future. for a hundred years from now , if you don't years from now, if you don't have immunity, you're not going to do anything . you're going to to do anything. you're going to become a ceremonial president. you're just going to be doing nothing. you're not going to

take any of the risks , both good take any of the risks, both good and bad. >> for the latest stories , you >> for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen. or you can go to gb news. com slash alerts. now it's back to . nigel. back to. nigel. >> good evening, jose more news. we see that a moroccan asylum seeker, ahmed ali, has been convicted of murder , which convicted of murder, which happenedin convicted of murder, which happened in hartlepool back in october last year. his argument, his excuse was it was revenge for the israeli—hamas conflict, for the israeli—hamas conflict, for what was going on in gaza. now if this was simply a one off, we might say, well, it's just one bad person. but you know what? we're beginning now to develop a list. as long as your arm, whether it is the alkali attacker on clapham common, whether there is the man that was the arsonist attacker outside the hospital in

liverpool, and i can go on and on and on with a whole list of asylum seekers , people who asylum seekers, people who entered the country illegally that have gone on to stab people, to murder people and who are guilty of serious sexual crimes . the funny thing is, crimes. the funny thing is, nobody wants to talk about this. the labour party won't mention it . the conservative party, it's it. the conservative party, it's all too difficult for most of the mainstream media. they'll do a news report on the story, but they'll do each of them individually and never, ever join the dots. i have been saying for some years that allowing people illegally to come into britain , especially come into britain, especially those who throw away their documents, their mobile phones, their passports, getting chucked in the english channel or elsewhere is a national security risk . we have no idea who most risk. we have no idea who most of these people are, no ability to check whether they have previous criminal records , and previous criminal records, and we're beginning to pay the price

. and what's perhaps even worse is that very large numbers of people come into our country literally have nothing in common with us, no shared history whatsoever, and a completely different set of values and priorities. nobody for one moment will say what is happening in israel and gaza and has happened since october the 7th, isn't serious, isn't bad , 7th, isn't serious, isn't bad, but it's not top of your list, is it? it's not top of no. these are not the biggest issues facing you in your life. and yet , for many living in britain, suddenly they now are . i wonder suddenly they now are. i wonder whether we will ever have the collective courage to recognise that if you allow people to come in undocumented with our complete inability to check their criminal records, we are endangenng their criminal records, we are endangering our own population. and yes, it might be a case here, a case there, but add it all together and you can see that illegal immigration is dangerous and damaging to the

british people . i have little british people. i have little doubt that for saying these things i will be totally and utterly condemned and called a bad person. but it's about time somebody called out what is going on now. the railways. i have my own memories of british rail. i've been commuting on railways , goodness me, for 50 railways, goodness me, for 50 years, on and off. i remember british rail being absolutely ghastly . british rail being absolutely ghastly. nothing british rail being absolutely ghastly . nothing about it seemed ghastly. nothing about it seemed to work whatsoever . and then to work whatsoever. and then privatisation came along. in the 19805. privatisation came along. in the 1980s. and i do believe there are areas telecoms, for example, where privatisation has been a huge success given more consumer choice, given better value for money. and i think that privatisation project was the right thing to do all those years ago . but there are areas years ago. but there are areas around utilities and who knows, perhaps even railways, where i begin to ask myself a question

have we actually got this right from what i can see of our railways today? and i'm going to, you know, get rid for a moment of the strikes that have bedevilled it for the last couple of years from what i can see of our railways today, there are too many lines on which there are problems and delays. the price of travelling, if you go last minute off peak, say from london, up north can be £300, £350 is totally extortionate. the complexity of how to buy tickets from euston station and which company to go with is, i think, frankly, bedevilling. and there is a general feeling that whilst a lot of people still use the railways and they do it, of course, because the roads are simply so busy and so unreliable in terms of time, there is a feeling that privatised railways are not working and the labour party are going for this in no uncertain terms. here was shadow transport secretary louise haigh speaking earlier on today.

>> they amount to the biggest reform of our railways for a generation. labour will sweep away the broken model and bring private operators into public ownership as their contracts expire. we will establish great british railways, a single directing mind to control our railways in the passenger interest . we will deliver interest. we will deliver simplified fares and ticketing, a best fare guarantee across the network has, as trainline has already managed to achieve, and we will roll out the kinds of innovations that you have trialled here. digital season tickets and automatic delay repay so that they are available to all passengers and we will create a tough new passenger watchdog that will hold great british railways to account on behalf of the passenger. both on performance and on the quality of the service they provide. labour will take a consciously different approach . we will see different approach. we will see our workforce as an asset rather than a liability. we will work

with them and where there are disagreements, we will get around the table and we will work them out . work them out. >> well, it's perfectly clear labour will nationalise the railways this is one of those policies that is unambiguous. it is clear. now, look, i made the point already. i did think in the 1980s it was right to privatise many things. but as that project went on, towards the end of tory rule, i began to become questioning. i'll be honest with you, when it comes to renationalising the railways, i find myself in a very odd position. normally i sit here and talk to you on this show with absolutely firm opinions on subjects on this one. as far as i'm concerned , personally, the i'm concerned, personally, the jury i'm concerned, personally, the jury is out, so i've got two guests for you that'll put both sides of the argument. it may convince me. it may convince you i'm joined down the line from wokingham by the conservative member of parliament, sir john redwood, and joining me in the studio, christian wolmar railway

journalist, historian and former labour politician . john, you labour politician. john, you were there in number 10 as an adviser to margaret thatcher dunng adviser to margaret thatcher during the 1980s. and privatisation was a revolution , privatisation was a revolution, ian and i have to say i believed much of it that we did in the 80s worked as the years went on, we privatised more and more things. utilities railways, etc. i looked john at the railways , i looked john at the railways, even with my horrific memory of british rail and i asked myself is railway privatisation actually working ? actually working? >> the first thing to stress is that we have a largely nationalised railway already, and so many of the things we dislike about the railway are the direct result of the government owning all of the track, all of the signals, all of the stations and controlling the rest by controlling the timetables. and quite a lot of the fares. so people who say they want to nationalise need to

understand that it is largely done and that we've had 22 years of very poor performance and big losses by network rail, which owns the whole track signals and is often the cause of delay. so when your train is cancelled or delayed, it's often a signal failure or a line problem or a station problem . and that is a station problem. and that is a nationalised business working for you . when i was advising for you. when i was advising margaret thatcher, we decided not to privatise the railways. we have many better, easier cases and as you rightly say, there were dramatic improvements in productivity, prices, availability, quality , vie in availability, quality, vie in telecommunications, in electricity and gas . they worked electricity and gas. they worked extremely well, but there was always the need not merely to transfer ownership, to get rid of the financial liability, to improve the financial management. there was also the need to have competition, and competition was absolutely crucial. and one of the reasons she and i did not go for the railways, it was more difficult to have a pro—competitive model

underjohn major. i was involved in the ministerial working party on how you should do the railways, and i was the author of the minority report and i was very, very keen on competitive challenge. now we've only been allowed it in one place. so that is hull. and hull is getting a very poor service from the region , a monopoly that was region, a monopoly that was privatised and so they allowed another company to come along and provide a better service over their tracks. and that worked extremely well for hull and then the regional monopolies and then the regional monopolies and then the regional monopolies and the controllers in whitehall never allowed it to happen anywhere else. so i say you need anywhere else. so i say you need a competitive model to get choice, to get better quality, to get the prices down, to get closer to the customers. network rail itself , over its 22 years, rail itself, over its 22 years, has lost a lot of money, has required massive subsidies, they say on their balance sheet that all their track and stations and signals are worth £82 billion,

but there's only 15 billion left as a taxpayer asset after 22 years of owning these amazing assets. because they borrowed so much and lost so much that the rest is all liability against it on the balance sheet. that's what, john nationalisation, you run out of money and you have a rotten service. >> so, gentlemen, the east coast line, for example, was losing money. so it's been it's been effectively put under government control. so your argument is we haven't done it properly . haven't done it properly. >> we should have had a pro—competitive model and we shouldn't have nationalised network rail when labour did. that has been a disaster. >> okay. christian wolmar, you've listened to what john redwood has said. he argues that hull is one line where there is you and there is genuine competition between companies you can buy tickets from, but john's really arguing that it's half nationalised already, yes. i mean, i think that he's talking like one of those old trotskyists who say, oh yes, socialism would work. we've never really tried it. and when they kind of half tried, they

said, no, no, we've never tried it enough. we really have to try it enough. we really have to try it more. and i think he's suffering a bit from amnesia because actually they did privatise network rail. and what happened and it was railtrack as it was called then it actually went bust because it messed up on its major contract on the west coast main line, it had this meltdown after the hatfield train crash, which resulted in delays everywhere. and that was the end of a privatised, network rail and the problem with that is that an infrastructure company like that is never going to have any competition, right? you just can't do that. you can't have two railway lines kind of competing against each other. you can well, with great difficulty , nigel. i mean, you difficulty, nigel. i mean, you know, you you have a few places like london to birmingham where you might have kind of different services, but by and large you have, you know, track one way and a track the other way , and and a track the other way, and you can't really have another set of tracks somewhere else. so

the whole idea of privatising it to, to get competition, rock and rail was separated, weren't they? >>i they? >> i mean, an eu directive actually 91, 91 eu directive made sure that was used as an excuse actually. >> but yes, i mean, since when did the tories actually follow eu directives? they always did. >> they always sadly. let me ask you a question. the key question , you know, john makes the point. we could have done this so much better. yeah you make the point that actually the whole idea is a dog's dinner to begin with. and i get both arguments. will full renationalisation of the railways give passengers a better, cheaper service? well, labour seat suggested it's not going back to the days of br, because the rolling stock has been sold off, the engineering companies have been sold off, so we're not getting full renationalisation. all we're getting is the train operators coming back in house and that makes a lot of sense, because one of the real problems with privatisation was that they separated the track and the and the operations. eu is an eu

directive. did that the eu directive. did that the eu directive ? no, the eu directive. directive? no, the eu directive. i know, nigel, i've written books about this . the actual books about this. the actual thing was just an accounting measure like across europe. they did it as a countermeasure. they didn't have to separate it like that. anyway, the idea now is that. anyway, the idea now is that we bring them back together again and form a united rail company. and by the way, one of john major's ideas that, again, john major's ideas that, again, john might have forgotten about was actually to have privatised the companies with the old big four companies like, you know, london, midland and london, nonh london, midland and london, north eastern and so on. that would have been a much better way of privatising it, because you'd have got proper companies that ran the track and the operations as well. together and that would have been a much better idea. but that was rejected by ideologues like john redwood, who insisted that competition was what we needed. >> john redwood, are you still there with me? >> john major? >> john major? >> john, john, that was my minority report. >> i said you needed to keep track and trains together . you track and trains together. you would do it on a regional basis,

but they needed to be subject to competitive challenge. and there would be a regulator to adjudicate pricing of slots and allocation of slots so that if the regional monopoly turned out to be bad for customers and bad on fares , there would be on fares, there would be a challenge and a regulator would use some of their slots for a competitor company . that was my competitor company. that was my model, so i don't know why i have to get insulted when somebody hasn't even read what i wrote about. these things made it very clear at the time that it very clear at the time that it was much better to keep track and train together. it was indeed an eu regulation, which made it extremely difficult to do that, and i suspect that's why my ideas were rejected . and why my ideas were rejected. and i think if you'd had that competitive challenge, you would have the advantages of the whole type operation across the network, and you'd have kept the regional monopolies honest and it is much easier if somebody owns the track and signals and the trains. of course it is. and one of the big thoughts of network rail in the last 22 years under both governments is they haven't put enough digital signalling in, and if they'd put

digital signalling in, they'd have got a lot more capacity, more reliability and more safety because you get much more visibility and you can stop trains as soon as they get anywhere near another train. if that starts to happen and they didn't do that, and instead they went for this enormously expensive idea of a london to birmingham and going on to the nonh birmingham and going on to the north additional railway line. now there again , that wasn't there. >> whoa, whoa, whoa, that was not network rail because that has been completely nationalised throughout its life. >> massively over budget, massively over run, and now having to collapse itself because it was so badly administered. >> i agree with you all. i agree with you 100% on that actually. funny enough, the two of you are not that far away are several of these issues. >> i noticed two, absolutely, but it was not network rail. >> it's not blame network rail a fraction of the money that was spent on hs2, as john quite rightly says, could have improved our railways. christian labour are going to do this, aren't they? >> they are going to do this and look, they will be massive

savings. you can get rid of all those consultants and all those lawyers and all that delay attribution. i mean, there's hundreds of people whose sole job is to attribute who is responsible for delay so that you can charge either network rail or the train operator or the freight operator. that is all a nonsense. so having an integrated organisation is better, but i think john contradicts himself. you couldn't have these kind of regional companies and have competition at the same time. >> i mean, john makes the point that it wasn't done properly and he was very, very, very questioning about it back in the 90s. either way, folks at home, i think christian wolmar's arguments, winning, 70% of you think that actually the railways should be nationalised. labour are going to win the election. it is going to happen and we'll have a look at this again in a year or two's time to see whether it's any better. and goodness gracious me, i really hope that it is. >> and i'll come and tell you that no no no no no. >> we will come back to this subject again and again and

again. don't worry. in a moment we'll talk about the so—called surge in child alcohol consumption. i find this very odd because so many young people i know don't drink anything at

all. huge story today. led by the times , but followed by all the times, but followed by all the others. saying that underage child drinking in the united kingdom. we are topping the league of 40 comparable countries. now it sounds awful. and of course, there are those in the medical profession who say the earlier you drink, the more likely you are to become dependent on drink. and yet this sort of contrast is a little bit with a lot of people in the 18 to 24 bracket who, unlike those that went before them for decade, perhaps even century after century , seem not to drink after century, seem not to drink at all. many are pointing the finger at lockdown. they're

saying this is what has caused the problem. well, i'm joined once again in the studio by lorraine marra. behaviour specialist and adhd coach lorraine . it's difficult to make lorraine. it's difficult to make full sense of this poll. you know, if somebody aged 13, 14, 15 has a glass of wine and a glass of champagne at a wedding or whatever it is, they would go into these figures as a as an underage drinker. sure. and it seems to me that of itself is not problematic. >> i would agree with you. and i do think that and i think this is a very important thing. do think that and i think this is a very important thing . i is a very important thing. i think in this country we approach , we look at, we view approach, we look at, we view alcohol in a very different way than they do in europe, for example , in this country we link example, in this country we link drinking to having fun. i went out last night. i was absolutely blind drunk. did you have a good time? oh, it was brilliant. yeah. what is brilliant about

that? >> well, i may be the wrong person to ask on this, but i mean, look, i mean, you know, certainly my generation when we were 18, the first, the most important thing to do, even before 18 was to get to the pub. yeah, was to get to the pub now, as i say, these figures that 50% of people over the age of 15 have had a drink. i don't find it of itself worrying. if it's repeated and regular, then perhaps it does lead to longer term dependency, but how do we fit this in with the other figure that i reported at christmas? and that was some of the supermarkets saying that when they're budgeting for what they need to sell for families , they need to sell for families, for big christmas lunches, that sort of 40, maybe more of 18 to 24 year olds now don't drink at all. so what's going on here, think? >> well, i think there are several things. first of all, if they drive , a lot of them are they drive, a lot of them are far, far more responsible when it comes to. yeah, yeah.

>> no, no. yeah, yeah yeah. >> no, no. yeah, yeah yeah. >> second of all, i think the price of alcohol for a lot of people is prohibitive. and i think whether seeing your mates may be going to their house and having a drink, as opposed to going to the pubs, we all know a lot of pubs because of cost, because of costs. yeah. and i think a lot of people are now seeing that drinking and falling down is maybe not a particularly attractive thing to do when you see these girls. and as a woman, i feel very strongly about this, these girls who sit on the edge of the pavement with their legs wide open, which terrifies the life out of me and the light. they don't know whether they're coming or going and i'm thinking, are you thinking about your safety here? so what you look like. >> so, so having this debate about underage drinking. yeah. having this debate about banning anybody who's 14 now from ever buying cigarettes, which i think creates a black market. but that's by the by. and yet what

we're not talking about is the damage that drugs are doing to young people. isn't that isn't that the biggest problem just coming? i mean, you know, you you look at behavioural problems. yeah adhd we're obsessing with drinking and smoking. yeah. isn't drugs aren't drugs. the real problem with young people. >> yes they are. because you know what? you can get the same buzz from smoking a joint as you can from having x number of drinks, and i don't x number is different. your x number is different. your x number is different from my x number. okay. so i think people and people find it more sociable to sit and smoke a joint together and i'm not condoning that. i am not condoning that at all. because illegal is illegal, is illegal whichever way you look at it. but they find it more sociable to sit and share something like that than they do to open a bottle of wine, a can of beer, or whatever those were. and they will tell you, because i've had this conversation 100 times, that it's less harmful . times, that it's less harmful. well, i don't know. i'm not a

doctor. >> no. well, it depends what it is. and if it's if it's skunk and stuff like that, then actually it's incredibly damaging mine wise. actually it's incredibly damaging mine wise . yeah. if damaging mine wise. yeah. if it's just the leaf, it may be less damaging, but i'm not advocating for it. yeah. and final thought on all of this behavioural stuff. lorraine if things are illegal, does it make them more attractive , i think it them more attractive, i think it does for some people and it doesn't for others. however, i don't think it's so much the illegal. i think it's the fact that perhaps their parents will say, have a drink before you go out . you love a good time, out. you love a good time, right? i think there is that okaying it for want of a better way of putting it, that that is all right. and it isn't all right. you don't see people in spain and italy sitting. i mean, there are some people that drink and fall down. we know that. that not like us, but not like here. >> no, i get it. no. all round. thank you. my pleasure. all round. folks, we do have a bit of a problem in this country

with our culture. it's been there for centuries. i don't think it's going to go away overnight. labour have said they will revive the steel industry in south wales. quite how they match that with the net zero commitments. i'm not entirely sure the conservative party seemed to think they can make capital out of this, and yet isn't it their policies that caused the blast furnaces to close down in port talbot

contrary to much of what you may read or hear in mainstream media, gb news is now attracting a growing number of people who intend to vote labour at the next election. they are disenchanted with the conservatives, and they're attracted by some of labour's ideas and perhaps railway nationalisation is one of those. if you go to gbnews.com, our website, you will see an article by jo stevens, labour's shadow

welsh secretary. and she says very, very clearly here the proposal to close both blast furnaces . this is at port talbot furnaces. this is at port talbot but the end of this year risks deep cuts to jobs , with up to deep cuts to jobs, with up to 3000 people at risk of redundancy . and, she says redundancy. and, she says conservative ministers have been short sighted . they've short sighted. they've marginalised wales in terms of importance . if you want to back importance. if you want to back steelmaking, back labour and many of these arguments on the face of them are very , very face of them are very, very tempting. truth is , it's the tempting. truth is, it's the pursuit of net zero policies from both parties that is leading to these closures. it is the fact that energy for manufacturing in britain is much more expensive than it is in america, in europe, and with all of our competitors, i'm joined down the line by david t.c. davies, member of parliament and secretary of state for wales. david you, through your net zero

policies, have directly led to the end of primary steelmaking in south wales and throughout the united kingdom and according to the labour party, you should be ashamed of yourselves this well, nigel, thank you for giving me the chance to come on and rebut some of the comments that have been made. >> let me deal with the, the central charge that this is all about net zero. there has been an increase in costs for energy intensive industries such as steel . totally accept that the steel. totally accept that the cost of energy is a lot more in the uk than it is in america. thatis the uk than it is in america. that is also correct. we've acknowledged that, we've acknowledged that, we've acknowledged that. and we brought in the british energy industry super charger to ensure that companies like tata have access to cheaper energy. that's going to be worth up to £410 million by the end of 2025. so we acknowledge there's a problem energy, for these big companies wouldn't will not be as a result of this any more expensive than it is in the eu. but the central problem with these plants, david. >> david okay, okay. david.

david. one second. one second. you've acknowledged that , but you've acknowledged that, but you've caused it over the course. yeah, but you've caused it over the last 14 years. so everyone acknowledges . but you everyone acknowledges. but you have actually as a government in power for 14 years put up through green subsidy , energy through green subsidy, energy pnces through green subsidy, energy prices for consumers and manufacturers . manufacturers. >> no, there has been an increase. but that is not the only reason why prices have gone up. no, that's. no nigel. come on, there's been a i mean, we get most of our electricity through, through gas still at the moment. and there has been a huge increase in the price of gas for reasons we're all aware of. so i acknowledge again that some of the increase in energy pncesis some of the increase in energy prices is as a result of net zero policies, but far from all of it. but to go back to what? to what joe stevens has say, the government did not take the decision to close those blast furnaces that was taken by tata because they were losing over £1 million a day and no company, no business, is going to take

losses like that. so it was entirely their decision to close the blast furnaces. so what we did, because we want steel to be made in the uk is to say, okay, if you close those blast furnaces and pull out, 8000 people are going to lose their jobs. so as a uk government, you said, what can we do to keep you in the uk? and the plan that we came up with jointly was to build an arc furnace, which will save 5000 jobs. >> i'm sorry , an arc furnace and >> i'm sorry, an arc furnace and you know this damn well recycles secondary steel. it doesn't produce primary steel. we are. if the prime minister is right and we're on a war footing, then isn't steel strategic ? isn't steel strategic? >> it is. so there are two problems, though. with what? with what you're saying. what joe stevens has said. the first is that all of the iron ore and all of the coke, which was going into those blast furnaces was coming in from abroad. so we didn't have that sovereign capability in the first place. the second is that we are not using the steel in port talbot to build battleships. i know that joe stevens has said in

parliament that we are, but we're not. and i can tell you the secretary of state for wales have checked this. we're not. and the reason for that is actually it's quite thin. it's coil. coil is thin. that's why it's rolled into a coil. it is not used to make battleships, we do however, create, make steel in this country for battleships, for a submarines. and that comes from an arc furnace from sheffield. forgemasters. so we can get very high grades of steel from an arc furnace. and we do have 8 million tons of scrap, which is being exported every year from the uk. and that is a resource that we should be keeping in the uk. is a resource that we should be keeping in the uk . so, so keeping in the uk. so, so actually this will increase our sovereign capability, not decrease it. >> all right. well, david, as you and i both know, different grades of steel work for different products, i just feel sad that we're about to become not no longer a primary producer. clearly, between you and the labour party in wales, this will be a real election issue. thank you forjoining me issue. thank you for joining me on the programme . now the what? on the programme. now the what? the farage moment today. oh

goodness gracious me. i can barely put up with this. this did happen in amherst in massachusetts. but hey, it could be happening here. have a look at this today. >> what we're going to do is we're going to show three policy. can i hear that? three mark steyn if you're a drag queen and you know it shall mark steyn if you're a drag queen and you know it and you really want to show it, you're a drag queen and you know it. show three. excellent. >> telling young kids if you're a drag queen and you know it, show free palestine. this is wrong on absolutely every level. what on earth are we doing ? what on earth are we doing? confusing kids of that age with drag queens. i've absolutely no idea. and for them to be then using this explicitly in a political way is just so wrong. i made the point it was happening in america. but what

happensin happening in america. but what happens in america then? he always happens here. it is wrong. frankly, folks, i think it's sick now. i talked last night about trick . yes, we're night about trick. yes, we're going to go for it. we're going to go for news presenter of the yeah to go for news presenter of the year. again. it's entirely up to you , the great british public, you, the great british public, to vote. so please, please , to vote. so please, please, please go to the qr code . go to please go to the qr code. go to the website. go to poll hyphen trick.org .uk. and it's all there available on gbnews.com. you can download you can download the qr code. you can go and vote for me. equally you can vote for eamonn holmes or other people from gb news in different categories. we won it last year. why muck about? let's get out there and try and win it again this year and with your support, who knows? we may very well do that in a moment. i'm joined by tim shipman, chief political commentator of the sunday times

and author of no way out brexit from the backstop to boris, which is out today. it tells us about the great travails of the conservative party. and i'll be asking tim as a very close student of this, did they ever actually really believe

brexit? you've just guessed it. my favourite time of the week. it's talking pints. i'm joined by tim shipman. tim, welcome to the program. now, nigel, i think this is the first time you've bought, isn't it? oh, so typical of these fleet street types. it really, really is . how many really, really is. how many years in journalism now? >> oh, 27 of which 24 in westminster. >> so you did the express . yeah. >> so you did the express. yeah. when i first spoke to you on the phone a long time ago , you were phone a long time ago, you were at the mail. yeah. >> then a couple of years in the states for the sunday telegraph,

back to the mail. and then ten years this week at the sunday times. >> what's the big difference between working for a sunday paper as opposed to a daily? well, it's all about digging around. >> it's about who you know and the contacts you can develop. and coming up with stories. you're trying to look backwards and kind of move on what's been happening that week, but also break some new ground and you've got more time to do that than you have on the dailies. you're not worrying about more pressure on a sunday than a daily or other way around. no, i think there's more pressure on a sunday because if you've got a big hit and you get it on a tuesday or wednesday, you've got that nervousness about whether last is it going to hold. yeah. and particularly during, you know, a lot of the brexit period and, you know, the may government and the, you know things were leaking within minutes, let alone days. >> and what a ten years. yeah. what an amazing ten years. when we think about, you know, where we think about, you know, where we were in 14. we've had brexit, we've had the dramas, we had the rise and fall of jeremy corbyn. yeah. and now they're on there. the conservatives on their fifth prime minister since they came

to power. and we have i mean, when was the last time we had such turbulence? >> i think probably the only comparable period was the 70s, wasn't it, where you had kind of two elections in 74 with slightly different , you know, slightly different, you know, and industrial unrest and proper kind of nasty feeling on both sides of the political divide. >> i think we had that division in the country in the 70s. but but our politics was more stable in the 70s. >> it's arguably the case, you know, because four years of conservatives, five years of labour during that decade, i mean, this is all over the shop. i think there's a decent argument that this is the most turbulent decade domestically, putting wars to one side since the great reform act, isn't it? i mean, it's kind of is brexit at the centre of this ? at the centre of this? >> is it is it that westminster found the will of the people just too difficult to deal with? >> i think it's two things, isn't it? i mean, yes, brexit is at the centre of it, but from both ends i think brexit revealed a lot of divisions that had been there, probably most notably since the 2008 crash, and a lot of people felt pretty heavily about politics and

brexit revealed all that. it then exacerbated it, and people formed teams and camps and took sides . and because it was so sides. and because it was so badly handled by theresa may and others, the chaos was never really dealt with and it just spiralled and spiralled and spiralled and spiralled and spiralled and spiralled and spiralled and people got more and more into those kind of armed camps. and i think, you know, culturally we're still stuck with a lot of those divisions, even if the politics has calmed down a little bit. but but, you know, tory mps then got a taste for a sort of the taste of blood, and quite enjoyed it . and once you've enjoyed it. and once you've turfed out 2 or 3 prime ministers, you're going, well, you know, if you don't think they're doing well, then you're kind of used to it. once you've rebelled once or once, this may happen again. once why? why stop? >> it may happen again. who knows what'll happen with the results next thursday? we've got big mayoral elections and. but not big, but reasonable sized local elections. see what fascinates me, tim, is, you know, i was an outsider in all of this. and agitator for, getting millions of votes for

ukip , brexit party, etc. ukip, brexit party, etc. i really wonder whether part of the problem is the conservative government had to accept brexit ultimately, but never really believed in it. >> well, i think the problem was across the whole parliament, you know, 70% of mps back remain and, and, and the country didn't , and i think to be fair to theresa may, she did believe in trying to deliver on it. she just didn't really know what it meant. and she wasn't able to persuade anybody that what she ended up thinking it meant was what it ought to mean. and by then, everybody had sort of dug themselves into their trenches, themselves into their trenches, the conservative party is a fractious beast, as you know, andifs fractious beast, as you know, and it's got many factions within it, because we have this first past the post system. it's a massive coalition of different things, but i think it was there to be led. >> they called it a broad church. yes. and i now say it's a broad church with no religion. >> well, that may be the case. >> well, that may be the case. >> and also, you know, these were religious wars almost, weren't they, in their

intensity. >> and they were. you've chronicled all this in a book thatis chronicled all this in a book that is out today. so let's have a look. >> there we go. no way out. so this is volume three of what is now a four part, you know, quartette covering the whole of 2016 up to now. so this is the, the agonising theresa may years, where you don't get right in this . this. >> what have you spotted? well, i think it's very interesting. there's a whole chapter on how very good at politics the brexit party was. yeah. >> i mean, we got rid of theresa may, not the conservative party. and there's a narrative that says it was ruthless boris that got rid of theresa may. >> well, i think a lot of the erg the spartans would say that they they and they saved the day. they dug in at the right time and stopped things going any further. and a combination of people understanding that they could change the rules of they could change the rules of the leadership contests as well. so the erg worked out that may was not safe. having been sort of they tried to oust her. they didn't succeed. she's supposed to have 12 more months, but they went to the deathbed of the bloke who'd written the rules

and he said, no, no, no, you can change the rules. and, the sort of men in grey suits went to theresa may and said, you know, hop it or we change the rules. actually actually, she resigned tearfully before the final results of the european elections were out. >> if you remember the timescale of that, it was fascinating. >> well, it was about a three day count, wasn't it? >> it was because we voted. >> it was because we voted. >> she decided to go. >> she decided to go. >> we voted on thursday. yeah, but the rest of europe voted. >> she basically decided to go on the wednesday evening but wanted to wait until after people had gone to the polls. and then. yeah, delivered of the worst national result that the conservative party has ever seen in the 8.9% 90 years. >> could they be heading for that of the next general election? >> i mean, all the polls suggest that that is a possibility, political gravity suggests that it ought to tighten. and when you listen to a focus group, the lack of enthusiasm for keir starmer makes you think that it might. but we've had predictions that it will for a very long time, and it hasn't yet, so obliteration is certainly plausible. >> there is an insurgent party called reform.

>> there is. yes. i mean, i'm tell us about it. >> i'm merely the honorary president. >> people, nigel, are the most interesting question in british politics at the moment is whether you're planning to go back and run the thing i know and or whether you're just planning to take over the tory party afterwards. >> i haven't decided, no, i haven't decided. anyone would think you're enjoying this. i'm off to america next week to see some friends over there , and some friends over there, and i've got some very big decisions to make myself about what i do. john curtis, sir john, the to make myself about what i do. john curtis, sirjohn, the doyen john curtis, sir john, the doyen of political commentators, one of political commentators, one of the least rash men you'd ever meet, says it's 99% certain that keir starmer is going to be the prime minister and you're right about the lack of enthusiasm. there'll be no honeymoon were there no, i don't think so, i suspect. >> well, look, several things will happen if he has if he does have a big majority, then all the opposition will come from within the labour party like it did under blair and brown. you'll have a very big sort of bunch of people on the soft left. and the further, slightly

harder left who will want to hold his feet to the fire and get what the unions want, and you'll also have a moment. does it come nine weeks or nine months in where everybody realises there's still no money? and it wasn't all the fault of wicked conservatives that there are sort of endemic problems in structural difficulties. you know , that productivity has been know, that productivity has been lousy for 20 years, and that probably longer than that, the economy's not in great shape. the nhs is taking up an ever increasing proportion of state spending . and, you know, it was spending. and, you know, it was you've got this war going on. there's still the aftershocks of covid. and it wasn't just conservative incompetence or wickedness that caused all this, and starmer hasn't because it's been made easy for him. he hasn't really had to show the colour of his, thought and the strength of his spine yet. and so it's all going to be a bit of an experiment. >> final thought , tim, you think >> final thought, tim, you think back journalism. fleet street , back journalism. fleet street, the lifestyle, noisy newsrooms is larger than life characters ,

is larger than life characters, editors that were the most frightful bullies. i mean, that's what it was. a few decades ago. it's journalism. still fun. >> yeah, i mean, i still don't really feel like i've done a proper day's work, and there's still a few characters around nigel. i mean , you know, you nigel. i mean, you know, you must, you know, you glance in the mirror each morning and there's a few others, long lunches are not as long as they were. >> and what a shame. how awful. >> and what a shame. how awful. >> but some of us are getting older and can't hack all that. you know quite as well as even you can, so, yes, i mean, we're always complaining that politics is less colourful and less interesting. that than it used to be, or that politicians are at least i don't think politics is less interesting, but i think, the interesting thing watching, you know, if we do have a big clear out of mps, there'll be a whole new load of people, some of whom will be talented and some of whom will be entertaining, and some of whom will be stark staring mad. because in big majorities, a lot of people get elected who just popped of people get elected who just popped out for a newspaper and did not expect to find

themselves in the house of commons. >> the more meps ukip got elected, the more problems we had. tim shipman, no way out. this is my transatlantic reading as i this is my transatlantic reading asi head this is my transatlantic reading as i head off to america on monday morning . jacob. good monday morning. jacob. good evening. what have you got coming up this evening? >> we're going to be talking about appropriately children drinking because apparently more do that in england than anywhere else, which seems to me to be a thoroughly good thing to introduce children to drink in a sensible and grown up by their parents, rather than drinking secretly behind the bike shed. but of course, the bossy boots having regulated cigarettes a bit more now coming after drink. >> and of course, rees—mogg here speaks as a home producer of his own. my own cider , which we own. my own cider, which we drank on talking pints. we did indeed. yes. it was lethal. it's quite strong. absolutely lethal . quite strong. absolutely lethal. >> it's strong. by your standards. it must be quite strong. >> i would not recommend anybody under the age of 18 drinks. the rees—mogg cider. if they do, it should be in a thimble, not in a full pint. i'm done. i'm away next week. back with you monday

week. let's have a look at the weather. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb news. >> good evening. here's your latest gb news, weather forecast brought to you by the met office. it's going to be another rather chilly night for many of us, and there will be some showers around and more showers to come as we go through tomorrow. due to an area of low pressure just out in the north sea, bringing a showery theme to many places. some further showery rain through this evening and overnight across southern parts. and here it is going to stay pretty cloudy keeping temperatures up elsewhere. there will be some clearer skies further north, albeit with a few showers around across some northern and eastern coastal parts, perhaps the odd wintry one over the higher ground of scotland, where we see the skies clear. we are going to see temperatures dropping so they will fall a few degrees below freezing in some rural spots. a touch of frost for some of us first thing tomorrow morning. otherwise, as we go through tomorrow, staying pretty cloudy across some far southern

areas and watch out for some heavy, perhaps even torrential downpours across parts of the southwest into the afternoon. elsewhere, the showers across the far north and east will become more widespread, feeding inland, so a greater chance that many of us will catch one into the afternoon temperatures staying a little bit on the low side. not feeling too bad in the sunshine, otherwise a bit cool for the time of year into saturday and there will be some showery rain feeding its way northwards across parts of england and wales. could be a little bit heavy at times. also, a scattering of showers for northern and western parts of scotland and northern ireland, but in between these two areas staying largely dry. there may even be some sunshine at times. sunday brings some heavy, persistent rain to some eastern southeastern parts, but temperatures are gradually climbing. >> buy buy a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on gb news

news.

>> hello. good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight, the world health organisation's report on child alcohol use is out. and england has topped the charts. more than half of english 13 year olds have drunk alcohol. the w.h.o. year olds have drunk alcohol. the who. wants this to stop. first they came for cigarettes, but now they're coming for the booze too. we may have thought sir keir starmer labour party was merely an extension of blairism, but the socialist instinct is alive and well. as the shadow transport secretary has unveiled plans to renationalise the railways. but the question is who will pay for it? more damning evidence has emerged suggesting britain's intelligence services have been infected by wokery. a gb news investigation has revealed. spies are also told to avoid all white panels use gender neutral bathrooms and nominate each other for 13 separate diversity awards, plus , state and nation awards, plus, state and nation book club returns with tony the lord sewell, the chairman of the commission on race and ethnic

disparities , who shattered the disparities, who shattered the narratives around