the crossings .7 as a united stop the crossings? as a united nafions stop the crossings? as a united nations agency has claimed climate change is damaging your mental health, contributing to depression and anxiety . but mental health, contributing to depression and anxiety. but is this more climate alarmism? and if it isn't , surely a good old if it isn't, surely a good old fashioned british stiff upper lip will do the job. plus, thames water is once again trying to push the consequences of its disastrous business decisions onto you, the consumer. but in a truly capitalist society, thames water must simply be allowed to fail. state of the nation starts now. i'll also be joined by an exuberant panel this evening pr consultant and former labour aide stella santykiu , and the aide stella santykiu, and the economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy , centre for brexit policy, catherine mcbride. as always, you know this. i want to hear from you. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me

mailmogg@gbnews.com . but now mailmogg@gbnews.com. but now it's what you've all been waiting for. the news of the day with ray addison . with ray addison. >> thanks, jacob. good evening. i'm ray addison in the gb news room. our top stories. the prime minister says the government will increase defence spending to 2.5% of gdp by 2030. during a trip to poland, rishi sunak said the budget will reach £87 billion by the end of the decade . addressing troops, he also said the uk defence industry vie will be put on a war footing. mr sunak called the plans the biggest strengthening of our national defence in a generation. >> as churchill said in 1934, to urge the preparation of defence is not to insert the imminence of war. on the contrary, if war was imminent, preparation for defence would be too late. i believe we must do more to defend our country, our interests and our values. so

today i'm announcing the biggest strengthening of our national defence. for a generation . we defence. for a generation. we will increase defence spending to a new baseline of 2.5% of gdp by 2030. >> that announcement comes as rishi sunak warned that president president putin will not stop at the polish border if his assault on ukraine is allowed to continue. earlier, britain pledged its largest ever package of aid for kyiv, worth £500 million. during the warsaw trip, the prime minister has been holding talks with the leaders of poland, germany and nato, warning that the defence of ukraine is essential to our joint security. ukraine's president zelenskyy has welcomed the package, which includes long—range missiles, armoured vehicles and boats. well, on the day that five channel migrants died off the french coast, including a four year old child, gb news can reveal that more than 250 others have crossed to the uk . a small boat got into

the uk. a small boat got into difficulties off wimereux beach near boulogne before 2 am. a number of other migrants were rescued, with at least one now critically ill in hospital . five critically ill in hospital. five other small boats have now been received by border force and the dover lifeboat, with migrants transported to the processing centre in dover harbour. a further two boats were seen heading towards uk waters . well, heading towards uk waters. well, police say they were faced with violence at a saint george's day eventin violence at a saint george's day event in whitehall this afternoon, when a group tried to force its way through a cordon. mounted officers on horses needed to intervene when the group broke through a police barrier. the force earlier said it expected some, quote, far right groups and groups linked to football clubs to attend the event. police say six people have been arrested . for the have been arrested. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. common shirts. back now to

. jacob. >> you know the great shakespearean shout, cry god for harry, england and saint george. but why saint george? how did we come to have this great devotion to a particular roman saint? well the reason is medieval devotion . in the medieval devotion. in the medieval period, people had a personal relationship with their saints. they felt that they were intervening in their daily life day by day, as a regular occurrence. and if they were let down by their saint, if they prayed, they asked for the intercession of a saint, and the saint didn't oblige. they get quite cross. so people had treasured relics of saints , and treasured relics of saints, and if their prayers weren't answered, their reports of them throwing them on the floor and stamping on them because they were cross like a toddler with a saint who hadn't obliged and saint george becomes the patron of england because he's seen or was seen to have delivered . some was seen to have delivered. some people believe that william the conqueror had the banner of

saint george when he came over at the battle of hastings in 1066, but he was certainly thought to be present early in the crusades. so at the battle of antioch in 1098 and at jerusalem in 1099, saint george was there urging on, and indeed rescuing the english, or indeed the norman forces. so the inspiration of the saints is crucially important, and the invocation often carries on. so it's loose. in 1340, cressy , it's loose. in 1340, cressy, 1346, in poitiers 1356, and famously agincourt 1415. but famously agincourt1415. but evenin famously agincourt1415. but even in the first world war the troops thought at times and this is 1914 1918. saint george was there helping them, aiding them, inspiring them, boosting morale. but it wasn't always going to be saint george . saint george saint george. saint george wasn't the first patron saint of england before him. it was saint edmund the martyr, a ninth century east anglian saint, who

was killed by the vikings, and saint edward the confessor was a competitor for this important role, and it was really king edward the third who decided that it would be saint george because he established his chivalric order, the order of the garter, which even to this day to this year makes announcements of no new appointments on saint george's day, is still dedicated to saint george . the king is still head george. the king is still head of the knights of the garter , of the knights of the garter, and edward the third set that up as his chivalric order. edward the fourth, and set up his great chapel at windsor to saint george. and really interestingly , when the protestants came in and they got rid of the saints, they abolished the order of the saints . they kept saint george. saints. they kept saint george. so saint george remains. this extraordinary figure in our national story, in our island story, but very much as an engush story, but very much as an english saint. so who was he? well, he's thought to have been

martyred in about the year 300 under diocletian, and his works were recorded in a very famous book, the golden legend. legend meaning story rather than fable, by jacobus jolly, good name jacobus de voragine, who was a medieval scholar , and he wrote, medieval scholar, and he wrote, translated into english, which i thought you would prefer to. what happened with saint george? so a city called silene in libya is terrorised by a dragon which infests a vast lake and must be fed if it is to be kept at way. note the connection of the dragon with water. this is the essential water of life and of baptism. the dragon is the enemy of true faith, and at first the dragon is given sheep. but these run out and the citizens resort to feeding it a man and a sheep. and then at the king's command, they start feeding it young people, and the lot falls upon the king's daughter. and the

king tries to get out of this, but the people won't have it, and his daughter is sent to feed the dragon. but lo and behold, saint george rides by. he rescues the princess, and the maiden takes the dragon by her girdle into the city where george slays it, refuses all honoun george slays it, refuses all honour, will not marry the daughter because he is a celibate, a holy man, and the city is saved. the dragon is slain and they all live happily ever after. that was saint george , and you'll be glad to george, and you'll be glad to know. as with all good things , know. as with all good things, it's thought he went to glastonbury in somerset. so happy saint george's day as even happy saint george's day as ever. let me know your thoughts. mael mog @gbnews s.com. but i'm very pleased now to be joined by gavin ashenden, former chaplain to the late queen and associate editor of the catholic herald. and gavin, thank you so much for joining me. i find the medieval devotion to saints very touching. they had an extraordinary depth and richness

of belief. >> i think a lot of people don't understand the care that people take over finding a belief that works. people are much more pragmatic than we give them credit for. there's a terrible nofion credit for. there's a terrible notion that the medieval years were years of superstition, but actually quite the opposite is true. if you look at the buildings, the art , the social buildings, the art, the social care, the sense of community, they reached far higher levels of sophistication than we're managing today. so it's something of a slander. but i think one of the things we need to give credit to our ancestors for is finding a way of living and loving and believing that worked and served them well. and there are so many things in medieval catholic, christian england that one could be nostalgic for and look up for. and i think probably celebrating saint george's day is one way of , of deepening that, that thirst and the saints very much brought god closer to man, didn't they, that people felt that there were these people who had lived, had

done real things, and that they were a link between this world and the next world, between the divine and the human, the mortal. yes the way the world works as we experience it, we all need patrons and influential friends. friends who can add some leverage to our cause. and this is true in this sort of horizontal level of time and space. but the moment you have a sense of the reality of, of life and love and the spirit beyond time and space, one recognises the same thing is true not because you want it to in some sort of population projection, but simply because when you practice that kind of praying, it appears to work. i remember meeting an early monk who influenced me on my journey from protestantism to catholicism, talking about life as a sort of an arena with those who were alive on on the pitch. so to speak, but if you've ever tried playing a football match without an audience, without a crowd to support you, the thing really falls quite flat and the crowd

can sometimes turn the whole event , one way rather than the event, one way rather than the other. and he was saying, look, when i when i die, do talk to me, do do invoke me. do do ask for my prayers, because i shall be part of the crowd of saints in heaven cheering you on, and you'll see the difference. and he's absolutely right with both his prayers and some prayers of some other very special, holy , some other very special, holy, competent people. my life has been greatly helped , and you been greatly helped, and you make the very important point that they can be invoked. >> they don't actually do things. they can cheer on. they can cheer on if they appear as saint george did at antioch. but they can intercede . crucially, they can intercede. crucially, they can intercede. crucially, they are not mini gods. >> no, it's not magic. and the interesting thing about magic is magic imitates faith. it's not the other way round . again, this the other way round. again, this is one of the great misconceptions of the last secular century, but, but, but so it isn't about trying to somehow exercise a degree of control over events, which is what magic does . it's more about

what magic does. it's more about putting yourself in the right place with the right spirit, with the right help, the right inspiration , the right inspiration, the right encouragement. i mean, these things are something of a mystery. you can't always describe them. it's very strange how how practical things fall into place. there aren't meeting the right person at the right time , in the right way, and this time, in the right way, and this is all part of the life of the spirit that the christian who prays becomes familiar with. and the saints are an enormously important, additional element in that, both for encouragement for and somehow this rearrangement of things in a way that is more propitious . propitious. >> and saint george in the modern era is a remembrance of that faith that we once had , but that faith that we once had, but still a link to our christian past . past. >> well, i think he's much more than that. i think that, in fact , i think he's quite a to the secularists to those who want to change culture. i think he's really quite dangerous because he reminds us of values that that people are actually actively trying to get rid of. he reminds us that we need to

belong to a nation rather than to some terrible, vague internationalism . in other internationalism. in other words, to a family of peoples who are were wedded to each other by, by, by heritage and by common history. he reminds us that one of the most valuable and effective periods in our national life was under catholic christianity, lasting for 1300 years, when there was a depth and a quality to social, spiritual and political relationships that we don't have at all. essentially, what saint george reminds us is what we've lost and what we ought to try to recover . recover. >> well, thank you very much, gavin. with me now is my panel pr consultant and former labour aide, stella saint kidu , and the aide, stella saint kidu, and the economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy, catherine mcbride , stella. saint catherine mcbride, stella. saint george is actually an important state saint in greece as well. isn't he? a much revered and has the patronage of many cities? >> of course he's my grandfather , who, he used to be. he he's passed away now. he he was a

greek orthodox priest, and his name was george. and he takes after this, this saint who. yes, extremely important . and i think extremely important. and i think that religion definitely plays a very important role when it comes to the national identity of a country. and i have that as a, as a greek and a greek orthodox. and i wouldn't want to deny that to the british people and the english people. however, i do take issue with one thing that gavin said. i do feel like his definition of what it means to have this national pride and community and spirit and all of that, and i understand that there is a common heritage and there is a common heritage and the common history that someone like me, who came here as an adult, doesn't have . but at the adult, doesn't have. but at the same time, there needs to be for space every everyone who, who, who wants to assimilate in this society to do that in a way that is respectful and appreciative of the culture. and for me, as a greek person, i have no problem with, england having its own national holiday. it makes perfect sense . other countries perfect sense. other countries have the same, and i think there

should be a way to celebrate that as a community that has space for everyone. >> and catherine, it is a bit unfortunate that we saw today scenes in whitehall where some people seemed to abuse the flag of saint george. they use it as an opportunity to go and have a bit of a punch up with the police. >> i find it incredible how people view the flag. i think we should be proud of the country's flag. i walked, i was in westminster today and i was walking back through knightsbridge and the mandarin hyde park hotel had this saint george's flag up. i was so impressed. i took a picture and i thought, wow, a very up—market hotel is proud to have the saint george's flag on its flagpoles, where people like emily thornberry thinks that that's a sign of the lowest person in the in the country , i come from a in the country, i come from a place in australia. they actually had a referendum in the 80s about whether australia should keep the union jack on the australian flag, and overwhelmingly people voted for

that. overwhelmingly people voted for that . we were proud of our that. we were proud of our heritage, and i find the really vie and crazy way that it's disrespected the british. the engush disrespected the british. the english heritage is fantastic . english heritage is fantastic. you should be proud of yourselves. you've done amazing things , it's really quite things, it's really quite extraordinary the way it's treated. >> but then the english have always been quite relaxed as well as quite proud. so we're not like the americans. i wouldn't want us to have the american devotion to the flag and take an oath to the flag. and all of that, which i think is a bit peculiar. >> well, i have a feeling that is because they don't have a monarchy. they don't have a monarchy. they don't have a monarchy. yeah. sorry, yes. yeah. so that that is the symbol of the freedom that is america , of the freedom that is america, thatis of the freedom that is america, that is the symbol of their constitution. that is why they all know their constitution, and they know about what is important to be an american, because the people have come from so many different backgrounds and nationalities, so that that puts people together. >> and, stella, you were implying that you think be fair

enough to have saint george's day as a national holiday. yes, yes. >> why not? yes. >> wh y not? . wh y yes. >> why not? why not? i think i think that the issue with, national ism rather than patriotism that has that used to take place ten years ago, i think it was more relevant because the whole world was having a bit of a reckoning about what it means to live in a global world and all of that. but i think that we need to stop having a debate about whether, you know, it is good or bad to be to be proud to be british or to be english or to be welsh or whatever. whoever wants to feel proud will do. we need to provide good, a positive blueprint so that people can feel like they are a part of this community and that if they want to celebrate it, they can, because, for example, in other countries, in greece, we have marches. when we have our independence day, our national holidays , the scenes that we saw holidays, the scenes that we saw earlier on the videos , on earlier on the videos, on trafalgar square of people having a fight with the police, this doesn't make anyone feel proud to be to be english. we need to find something positive

so that people actually do feel better about themselves . better about themselves. >> and it's an interesting reflection on the history the christian culture of england, scotland, wales and ireland that each one of them has a patron saint who is still known varne, whereas actually most of the other saints are forgotten. it's the one area where patron saints is still important. i feel like the saints in the uk, they have been very politicised. >> i think perhaps because atheism was was very prominent and controversial at the same time, maybe during the 90s and the early noughties. i think thatis the early noughties. i think that is the difference. when i'm looking at the uk and other countries, like in greece and also i yeah, i think i feel like the religious aspect has been very, very politicised, which is unfortunate because i'm sure there are people who would benefit from the religion if it weren't from the baggage that it comes with. >> well, thank you to my panel. and i think most of the patron saints went to glastonbury , saints went to glastonbury, certainly patrick and george did. david almost certainly. if

anyone knows about andrew, you know male mogg, but the rwanda bill has reached royal assent, with migrants set to be detained within ten days. when will the flights take off? plus thames water wants you to pay for its mistakes. but i have a much better idea for how to deal with incompetent businessmen. they

well. bison. george. or very welcome back. and dawn says on her male mug. i fetched three of my grandchildren from school today. three different ages, three different schools. none of them knew it was saint george's day. just disgraceful. this is not taught in schools, but it's what i expect these days. and ryan says nothing against saint george, but i think a public houdayin george, but i think a public holiday in june to commemorate magna carta would be a much better celebration of englishness than a saint's day. surely an indisputable contribution of england to the evolution of democracy the world

over. evolution of democracy the world over . we used to have a bank over. we used to have a bank houday over. we used to have a bank holiday for empire day, which i wouldn't be entirely opposed to because whisper it quietly, but it's also my birthday, so that would be very gratifying from my point of view. and i ought to thank christopher stace for his excellent biography of saint george, which i was quoting from earlier. we are approaching the second anniversary of the moment. the original rwanda deportation flights were meant to take off, and here we are after obstruction from the european court of human rights, a decision from our own supreme court and more than four months with five attempts at wrecking amendments from their lordships , amendments from their lordships, the rwanda plan has finally reached royal assent. earlier today, it was revealed very sadly that five people, including a child, died crossing the channel. all too often we are told that the issue of small boats is a distraction. this tragic news goes to show how serious the matter is. indeed, a matter of life and death. so with the plan now having reached royal assent and with detention set to begin in a matter of days

, when can we expect flights to take off? prime minister has said by july, my panel is still with me. pr consultant and former labour aide stella santaguida and the economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy, catherine mcbride, catherine, is it now all going to go swimmingly ? to go swimmingly? >> i sincerely hope so. i think it is a very good idea. obviously they're not going to get as many people , onto those get as many people, onto those planes as they were hoping to, but, it's got to try and get people out of stopping to, to take the crossing. crossing is incredibly dangerous. and if it wasn't for the, the lifeboats and our own coast guards meeting the french navy, who escorts them to the halfway line, which they shouldn't be doing and we shouldn't be paying them to do that, many , many more people that, many, many more people would have died in the channel. >> yes. and if this works, we will stop this evil trade of the people smugglers. >> yes. and that must be one of

the main objectives. >> well, for sure, if you don't stop that trade, then you know they won't stop. and people don't have the money to pay their trip. they usually have to pay their trip. they usually have to pay it back in kind when they get here working illegally or running drugs. >> so stella , is this a good, >> so stella, is this a good, important step or do you think it doesn't have a chance of succeeding ? succeeding? >> if the threat of dying on the engush >> if the threat of dying on the english channel doesn't stop them? i really struggle to see how this rwanda plan is going to stop them. there is no evidence that this is going to be effective. as stephen kinnock said, the shadow immigration minister, this plan is not only criminally expensive, it is also completely unworkable . we can't completely unworkable. we can't even find an airline that will transport these people , because transport these people, because airlines have been advised that they may be in breach of un international law if the flights take off. >> but we've got the raf so we can get the raf to take them if necessary. i just wonder whether your argument on that is correct, that people do take risks that they think may be

fatal, but if they know that what they want to achieve will be impossible , then it's a be impossible, then it's a different question, isn't it? they're not. it's not the same that if you take a small boat trip and you know it's dangerous and there is a risk of death, you tend to think that will be other people . and we all do that other people. and we all do that in our daily lives. when we take risks, when we do things as, if, on the other hand, you know, that even if you get across successfully, if you get caught, you won't end up in england, you'll end up in rwanda. that's a very different calculation. >> i struggle to see how this is a different situation, because all this is a business model, right? you have people who are desperate to come here, they are willing to pay, and then you have people who will be bumping up the price. the more difficult we make it for them and the more dangerous. so you are just taking the problem from one one route and you're putting it into another . they will find a way to another. they will find a way to come here. if they are that desperate, they will find a way to come here. >> and stella has got a very good point there, hasn't she? >> because they used to come over on lorries and eventually

the security was improved at calais and they stopped being able to come over on lorries and they shifted to small boats that you squeeze the balloon , but the you squeeze the balloon, but the people who really want to come here will try and find some other route. but you then squeezeit other route. but you then squeeze it further. >> when the australians cut this off first, they push the boats back. they didn't allow the boats to land. and secondly, if you did come illegally because people also flew in and then tried to claim asylum , without tried to claim asylum, without filling in the forms which you do at every australian embassy around the world, then they were never they were put on a blacklist, never allowed to come to australia. and once people knew that was going to happen to them, they stopped coming illegally and they started filling in the forms. illegally and they started filling in the forms . you have filling in the forms. you have to give people a different an alternative route. and we have for people, refugees , genuine for people, refugees, genuine refugees from both the ukraine and also from afghanistan. and we have the statistics are published regularly. so the real ones are coming in properly, filling in the forms in the

country or in a safe country. and the ones who didn't do that, you obviously we know already, they're probably not genuine refugees and that is a problem. >> there's a lot of fraud in people saying that they're from syria and afghanistan. when they're not, and saying that they're not, and saying that they have converted to christianity when they haven't, and that we've set up systems that give people perverse incentives. >> it is a very bad pr for the real refugees . and it is a shame real refugees. and it is a shame because there are people who are in genuine need. and it is very, very unfair that these people will be painted with the same brush but at the same time, when you're looking at the debates that took place in the lords last night, and you look at the two amendments and what they were trying to do, what they were trying to do, what they were saying was, you know, in, in in these cases, there are people who, as you said, have helped the british government in afghanistan whose life is genuinely in danger. and we should help them. but the government did not give way, but they did . they did. >> they did. there is a program to bring those people in. >> yes, but there is no trust in the government that this is

actually going to happen. >> it has happened already. we brought them in. we brought over 20,000 people in who worked for us in afghanistan . us in afghanistan. >> it clearly hasn't been enough. it clearly there is clearly a lot of concern that there will be other people who will be genuine refugees from these areas, a lot of whom will have helped the uk government, who will not be caught by this safety net. >> no, no, they have other routes to come in and they don't have to come in illegally. the lords amendments were straightforwardly wrecking amendments. the point of the bill was to say , as a matter of bill was to say, as a matter of judgement, rwanda is safe and safety is not a matter of fact. as the judges have tried to pretend it's a matter of judgement. the government thinks it's safe. that seems to me to be a reasonable judgement to make and to legislate for. all the amendments were designed to get the lawyers back involved, to say that there's a reason to change this judgement for these people and those people, or because this committee hasn't thought so. i thought their lordships were talking baloney, frankly, when they were saying they weren't wrecking amendments, they were just doing these very modest things . no these very modest things. no they weren't, they were cleverer

than that. >> well, there may well there may well have been some parliamentary manoeuvring going on there, but i think it is perfectly justifiable when you look at the bill as a whole and what it is trying to achieve. >> and the lords had their second, the lords had their arguments with this bill from the beginning, as did a lot of other politicians. and i think that the initial point of the entire plan, the entire plan, i think, needs to be scrapped because it is unworkable. >> i won't take slightly further. don't we actually need to change the whole basis for refugee claims that we have a system based in the 1950s, when it was much harder for people to move, and there's been a calculation, i think it was by the centre for policy studies, that 700 million people would technically be able to claim asylum in the uk, and this is just crazy. and this is not a system that is workable for any western nation any longer. >> no, it is crazy. and also the way we treat refugees. is also crazy because by putting them up in hotels and giving them money,

we are actually have created an incentive for people to take the unsafe route of a boat. the idea that being flown to miranda is somehow less safe than sitting in a rubber dinghy for 20 k 20 miles, rather, in one of the busiest shipping routes in the world is just nonsense, and putting them up in hotels is very unfair on my constituents, who are sometimes living in less good accommodation and they have to pay for it themselves. >> and this really upsets a lot of taxpayers. >> and i agree, and they should be. i think what should happen is the backlog should be tackled and people should be allowed to work, because i don't think that these people want to be sitting in hotels and to receive the pittance that they will be receiving from the government, they want to work and be useful. however, i don't think that it's a good use of british money when you're going to be spending £11,000 per person to send them back to rwanda. i think for the average british taxpayer to they would rather the more the, the more than half £1 billion that

are going to be spent in this plan to be spent right here at home on in more urgent matters. >> all right. well, thank you very much to my panel coming up as the united nations has claimed, climate change may have an effect on your mental health. has climate hysteria reached fever pitch? plus is it time to let thames water fail so it can be sold off by the receiver ? be sold off by the receiver? however

it's no secret that i'm not a fan of the united nations and its climate change hysteria. last week, i criticised its climate change chief, simon steel, for claiming we had two years to save the world. the climate hysteria hasn't stopped there. now, a un agency, the international labour organisation, has issued a report suggesting climate change is bad for your mental health. while it makes some scientific

points about excessive heat contributing to conditions like anxiety and depression , it also anxiety and depression, it also claims people may feel distress from loss of hope for the future of their community. but surely it's institutions like the un harping on about having two years to save the world that contribute to this apocalyptic trepidation. well, my panel is still with me. pr consultant and labour aide stella santa kidu and the economist and fellow at the centre for brexit policy , the centre for brexit policy, catherine mcbride. stella. they're trying to get us going, aren't they? they're they're creating what they're worried about. >> i don't know, because when i first saw the headline as i told you previously, i thought, is this just people who are very anxious about climate change? and they are they're working themselves, themselves up. but no, it seems like it. is that what is actually happening is there are natural disasters and people who are involved in this, either because their communities are destroyed or affected by them , or because they have to go them, or because they have to go in and, you know, help other people with rebuilding their communities, it is it is causing them a lot of distress, which i

completely understand as a greek, because every summer we have these massive wildfires, which they seem to be coming more and more, and it can be very , very anxiety inducing for very, very anxiety inducing for people . people. >> well, when i was a young teenager, someone wrote a book called the limits to growth, and i actually expected we would run out of oil and water and fresh air by 2000. and as i came and saw, not only did 2000 come and go without any incident, we had a glut of oil, a glut of almost all crops . yields had never been all crops. yields had never been higher, commodity prices had never been lower . everything never been lower. everything they'd predicted was wrong. i have not listened to any climate change rubbish since then. you know, it's , we have to manage know, it's, we have to manage our environment. we've always done it. and the climate has always changed most of the way we farm in the uk is very weird for people from temperate climates, because they don't need to put their animals in sheds in winter, they don't need

to do a lot of the things that you do just think is normal. in the uk because you've got you've adapted to the environment you live in. and in the same way australia has adapted , australia has adapted, australian farmers have adapted to bushfires and they clear land and they make firebreaks, if it gets hotter in europe, european farmers will have to start doing that as well. >> and that's the point, isn't it, that we need adaptability historically we've had adaptability and this is just sort of millenarianism . there's sort of millenarianism. there's always been a tendency in mankind to say the world is about to end, and now it's sponsored by the united nations. >> i do agree that there is this doomerism, there is this tendency in the human species. this is how we have survived over the centuries by being very anxious about things and by tackling them. but i do believe in climate change. i do believe in climate change. i do believe in the 99.9% of scientists who say that climate change is climate change is a fact. i do think it's a problem that the planet is becoming warmer. but i also agree that we need to adapt. and there was there have

been a few books that have been released recently about how we need to become more prepared for natural disasters and how there are some very simple things that should be taught, even in schools . schools. >> but the one thing that minimises the consequence of natural disasters is prosperity. so they have an earthquake in taiwan and almost nobody is injured . they have an earthquake injured. they have an earthquake injured. they have an earthquake in japan. likewise, they have an earthquake in poorer countries. and thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people are killed if we make ourselves fichen are killed if we make ourselves richer. and that requires cheap energy, then we protect people from natural disasters . bingo, yes. >> but if the way that we make ourselves richer is by exacerbating climate change and by making the planet even hotter , then i don't think this solves the problem. i think that in the long term that makes it worse. >> just install some air conditioning. that's what i say. anyway. >> when the prime minister was chancellor one decision which i fairly publicly disagreed with him on was his decision to increase corporation tax from 19

to 25. this seemed to me to make us less competitive , especially us less competitive, especially when across the irish sea, corporation tax is at 12.5. however, it seems it's worse than we thought. the centre for policy studies has claimed in a new report that government policy has increased the regulatory burden to such an extent that it's now costing british business an extra £6 billion a year, equating to a further 2% corporation tax rise. in other words, what we thought was 6% was 8. well, my panel is still with me. catherine, regulation is something governments can get rid of for free. why don't they ? free. why don't they? >> it's a very good point. and one that kemi badenoch actually made a very good speech and said that most people in the in parliament and maybe not yourself , just see their job as yourself, just see their job as adding more regulation. but i think a lot of the public like if something goes wrong, they think the government should do something about that without realising that every time that happens, that's another level of regulation , another cost,

regulation, another cost, another compliance officer, another compliance officer, another you know. >> but cam is in the same category because she had the ability to get rid of all that european law with the retained eu law bill and she didn't she let the bill be completely watered down. >> well, that's probably true, though she did make a very interesting bit at the end of that speech about where the british got their their money from, and it was not only you'll be happy to know by getting bringing together raw materials from all over the there empire. but what they did is they had abundant cheap energy from coal, so they could use all those raw materials to make interesting things . and they had an affluent things. and they had an affluent demand, an affluent population , demand, an affluent population, to sell those things to which they didn't have in the places where the raw materials came from. >> i mean, it is dangerous, isn't it, that whenever something goes wrong , everyone something goes wrong, everyone says, well, why wasn't there a regulation to stop that? but actually, if you want freedom, you have to have freedom to make mistakes . mistakes. >> sure have freedom. look, as a greek, i'm not going to tell you

that i like bureaucracy or that i think that red tape is a good thing. >> i do think that to grow, you do need to have businesses, to let businesses basically innovate and all of that. but when i look at the us, for example , when they have less example, when they have less regulations that here in the uk and some of the results there, you're looking at microplastics, for example. and now there are studies that show that clearly microplastics in the water are unked microplastics in the water are linked to cancer. what are you going to tell to women, for example, in the us who are now not able to have children because of the things that existed, because of the substances that they were added to, the products that they used. what are you going to tell the british women that you want the same fate for them? >> well, but the us actually has a lot of regulation, and it also has an extremely litigious system. >> so that if people do things that poison people, they get sued out of existence. >> now it's too late and they are being sued. they are being sued, but it's too late for so many people in the us. it's now too late. they are already sick, but but that's true here that we can't regulate things that we don't know are dangerous until

after they're dangerous. >> and there are some things that prove that it does prove the point that regulation is not always bad, not always bad, but we regulate an awful lot of things that are perfectly safe. that's the problem. oh, if you look at the details of regulations that we regulate light bulbs, what type of light bulb can you sell? not not because they're dangerous, but because they're dangerous, but because we don't want them to use much electricity. we regulate kettles and hoovers and on and on we go. not because they're dangerous, but because we want people to behave in a particular way. >> i guess for me, the government should not be ideological about regulations. it should sit down and have a very pragmatic view about what is needed and what the people actually want. and i do think government after government has been saying that they will make regulations better, they will cut red tape. they haven't managed to achieve that. something needs to be looked at, especially when it comes to pubuc especially when it comes to public services like the nhs. >> well, you certainly see this in financial investments where everyone expects the regulators to make sure that your you're not defrauded and you know, that is important, that the businesses are real, but instead they also try and prevent you

from making a bad mistake. >> well, they try and stop you lending money to somebody who may drill an oil well because they don't like that. >> that's also then they complain about our costs going up because we don't have the cheap energy we used to have. well thank you. >> my brilliant panel coming up next. thames water is trying to pass on all of its disastrous business decisions to you, the consumer. but will it get away with it? plus the government debt crisis worsens as the office for budget responsibility gets another forecast wrong. what a surprise . lord balfe

thames water is once again proposing to charge you more money to make up for its disastrous business errors. the water company currently sits on a mountain of £15.4 billion of debt, and has proposed the regulator, ofwat, to increase its charges by 44% in real terms

over the next five years to its 16 million customers. but as i said before, oflot must reject this request in a free market economy, the shareholders should face the consequences of bad business decisions. thames water's case these price rises are not to pay for future investment, but to pay for its excessive debt that was taken on to pay out dividends when interest rates were low. the weakness of thames water's balance sheet is a consequence of its poor financial management , not of a bad structure of the underlying utility business. i'm joined now by mark littlewood, director of popcorn, formerly of the institute of economic affairs . mark, if we are affairs. mark, if we are capitalists, the government can't step in to defend every bad business. >> that's exactly right. i mean, there are complexities around water in the same way. i think there are complexities about banks going bust. i would love to be a free market capitalist who could say we should just treat these things as if they're, i don't know, high street department stores . and if

street department stores. and if they go pop, they go pop. obviously a water supply or banking services rather more crucial. but in essence , i agree crucial. but in essence, i agree with your point. they should probably go into administration. i don't want them nationalised. i don't want them nationalised. i don't want to fall for the idea that because thames water has been badly managed, which it has been badly managed, which it has been, that the solution is that politicians and bureaucrats should come in and run it. but yeah, i mean, it's outrageous that dividends have been paid when they shouldn't have been and that the assets will remain there . there. >> so unlike a bank where depositors lose out and so on and so forth, if thames water went bust, all the water pipes are there. the reservoirs are there, the water still flows through the pipes. that management side of it is very easy to sell off as a going concern. >> i think that's exactly right. and, you know, endless companies are put into administration . are put into administration. somebody brought in to try and turn it around and stabilise it and keep the core functions of the company going. that is probably what needs to happen here. i mean, i'm not sure you can tip them into administration, right? they'd have to select that themselves, but they probably would if this off. what request fails if they don't get this increase that they're asking for from off? >> what and what do you think

the role of off. what should be that if this is the structure of thames and it wasn't objected to by ofwat in the past , does ofwat by ofwat in the past, does ofwat have in a sense to be passive and say okay, we didn't stop you doing this, therefore we've got to pass it on to the customer. thatis to pass it on to the customer. that is fair. here's your 40. >> no, i think they can look retrospectively back. i mean, it's a regulator that's failed. of course, we were saying as free market capitalists, you and i jacob, were okay to let companies go bust. but regulators never go bust, right . regulators never go bust, right. so ofwat really does have monopoly. >> well, that's a question we can discuss on the bank of england, which is taking £40 billion a year from the taxpayer. but whilst you're here, i thought it worth mentioning that the latest borrowing figures are out and they've unsurprisingly proved they've unsurprisingly proved the office for budget responsibility wrong . for the responsibility wrong. for the umpteenth time in the year to march, government borrowing was £120 billion and while this was lower than last year, it was 6 billion more than the obr forecast. just a few weeks before the year end. it's thought it might make it difficult to cut taxes in the autumn, which was apparently

initially planned . and first of initially planned. and first of all, if the obr can't even get it right three weeks before the financial year end, what is its point? >> yes. this is i mean, it's infuriating. jacob isn't it? i understand that we're in sort of search of the truth when it comes to the so—called science of economics. it's wonderful to believe that you can get things to the last decimal point and know exactly how much tax revenue you're going to have, or what the deficit looks like. you can't . it's more or less can't. it's more or less sticking your finger in the air. and unfortunately , these sort of and unfortunately, these sort of forecasts have become binding on the government. we're almost in a position in which the chancellor of the exchequer is told by these people on spreadsheets how much pocket money he's got to spend , and money he's got to spend, and this might well make it difficult for jeremy hunt to cut taxes in future, because the debate that we have is around these numbers as if they're sort of, you know, tablets from god rather than guesses, though actually, that's quite a good defence of the abr that you're saying that they're being asked to do something that is fundamentally impossible and thatis fundamentally impossible and that is something that's been

legislated for. >> so this is an active political decision to ask the abr to come up with figures that are of their nature wrong. yeah that's exactly right. >> and we always have this argument, don't we, that the government shouldn't mark its own homework, but the government isn't a pupil in a school. the government's the headmaster. they should be making those sort of decisions . and the other bit of decisions. and the other bit i find maddening about this, the entire story is there's no room for unfunded tax cuts. now, i'm not in favour of unfunded tax cuts.i not in favour of unfunded tax cuts. i want balanced budgets. i mean, we haven't had one since, i think the turn of the millennium. but unfunded tax cuts are treated as utterly toxic and reckless. unfunded pubuc toxic and reckless. unfunded public spending . well, that public spending. well, that seems to be wholly allowed. no problem of what is it? nearly £1 trillion of unfunded public spending in the last 20 years or so. 50. >> so. >> well, i'm quite worried about £120 billion annual deficit, which is unfunded public spending. and it's too high. >> yeah. it is. >> that needs to come down. but that needs to come down. surely by cutting expenditure , not by

by cutting expenditure, not by raising taxes further because of the economic consequences . the economic consequences. >> yeah, i think overall on tax, there's the concept of the laffer curve, of course, that there's a sort of sweet spot if you want to maximise revenues. you can't just keep dialling up tax because incent disincentive effects kick in and you actually end up putting up a rate and actually lowering your revenues because people have exited the workforce or whatever. i think we are now probably taxing the uk economy in aggregate to the max. you probably can't squeeze any more money out. so politicians have got to have an honest discussion about what expenditure is going to be cut . expenditure is going to be cut. >> politicians discussions are always on its mark. your cynicism shocks me anyway. that's all from me. up next is ben leo in for the inimitable patrick christys. ben, what are you going to be discussing this evening? >> hi, jacob. it's my last show tonight, so i promise i'm going tonight, so i promise i'm going to make it a cracker. should saint george's day be a bank holiday, nigel farage on his de—banking scandal. and the new us ambassador. i thought that was his job. and also mark francois is in the studio on

rishi's defence bonanza. just a few minutes . few minutes. >> well, that's going to be a very exciting programme. if we have another bank holiday, we ought to lose one. ideally, the socialist labour day should go and then we could have one for saint george anyway. that'll be very exciting, ben. it's coming up after the weather. i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg this has been state of the nation. the weather in somerset is wonderful and i think saint george, saint david and saint patrick will all be there in glastonbury, in somerset tomorrow . somerset tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , sponsors of weather on . solar, sponsors of weather on. gb news. >> hello. good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update. it will stay dry but it will be quite a cold night tonight and throughout tomorrow. the best of the sunshine will be across north and western areas once again . that's because high once again. that's because high pressure is dominating over here. meanwhile to the east of the uk we've got low pressure and this weather front that's brought cloudier skies throughout this afternoon to the

southeast. that should clear away overnight though, and we'll be left with this northerly wind that will bring a cold feel to coastal areas through wednesday , coastal areas through wednesday, but also a few showers overnight. tonight should be fairly light and mainly just restricted coastal areas further north and west, restricted coastal areas further north and west , though clear and north and west, though clear and dry and quite cold by tomorrow we could be down as low as —3 or 4 for some scottish glens, but the frost should be fairly patchy and should melt away fairly quickly as well. then we'll be left with a dry and bright day for many western areas of the uk. in the east, though with this northerly wind that's always going to drag in a bit more in the way of cloud, and that risk of showers will continue into wednesday afternoon. we'll feel a little bit brighter, though than today as the cloud will be a bit higher and then the best of the sunshine could see highs of 15 or 16 degrees. another cold night to come on wednesday night. so a cold start on thursday and then this area of low pressure in the north sea will bring this band of rain and cloud across northern areas of england, southern scotland through thursday should be dry and brighter in the south, but

then friday and saturday look that much more unsettled. however, notice temperatures will start to rise by saturday. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boiler as sponsors of weather on . gb news.

weather >> good evening. i'm ray anderson in the gb newsroom . and anderson in the gb newsroom. and we start with some breaking news. two people have been airlifted to hospital after a small aircraft crashed near the village of monkton in south ayrshire. the incident happened just after 4 pm, less than two miles from prestwick international airport . miles from prestwick international airport. h.m. coastguard airlifted them to queen elizabeth university hospital in glasgow, while police closed the a71 . nine police closed the a71. nine scottish fire and rescue service say they were on the scene for several hours. we'll bring you more on that as we get it. now, the prime minister says the government will increase defence spending to 2.5% of gdp by 2030 dunng spending to 2.5% of gdp by 2030 during a trip to poland , rishi during a trip to poland, rishi sunak said the budget will reach £87 billion by the end of the decade. £87 billion by the end of the decade . addressing troops, he decade. addressing troops, he also said the uk defence industry will be put on a war footing. mr sunak called the plans the biggest strengthening of our national defence in a generation . generation. >> as churchill said in 1934, to

urge