well, let's talk about china. i'm asking you a simple question . do you think we need to get tougher with them? i do also coming up today. such a big topic, this one a damning report out today on the subject of social cohesion, says that almost 80% of us are fearful of voicing our true feelings in pubuc voicing our true feelings in public because of potential reprisals. your thoughts on that? the report also lays bare the absolutely shocking failures around the treatment of the batley school teacher. there is so much to get into on this report and we'll cover it all. also, i want to ask you about transport. is it time now basically to move transport s under public ownership. lots of that going on in yorkshire. is it a good idea though or not. also some criminals will be required to wear high vis jackets and clean up the communities that they've damaged. good what i say. but damaged. good is what i say. but other people are saying it's wrong to humiliate this

wrong to humiliate people this way. your thoughts ? we'll get way. your thoughts? we'll get into all of that and more over the next hour. but before we do, let's cross live for the 6:00 news headlines. >> michelle, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gp newsroom tonight is that the deputy prime minister has accused china of being responsible for two malicious cyber campaigns targeting the electoral commission databases containing the names and addresses of 40 million registered voters were visible to hackers in 2021 and 2022. but the government says it did not affect the outcome of local elections at the time . local elections at the time. china has reacted angrily to the accusations , with branding the accusations, with branding the claims fabricated and malicious slanders. well, oliver dowden told the commons today that the government wants to be as open as possible with the british

pubuc as possible with the british public about the attack. and he said national cyber security support will be helping political parties make sure their protected from foreign influence. in the run up to the general election. >> we want now to be as open as possible with the house and with the british public because part of our defence is calling out this behaviour, this is the latest in a clear pattern of hostile activity originating in china, including the targeting of democratic institutions and parliamentarians in the united kingdom and beyond. oliver dowden now rishi sunak is facing another by—election in a red wall seat after scott benton resigned as an mp. >> the blackpool south member was already facing a recall petition. mr benton, who's now running as an independent, was found to have broken commons rules when he was caught out in

a sting by the times newspaper offering to act on behalf of gambling investors. offering to act on behalf of gambling investors . shadow gambling investors. shadow paymaster general jonathan ashworth says his resignation has come too late. >> they should have done it much sooner , frankly, in the tory sooner, frankly, in the tory party should have made him resign much sooner. i mean, it's absolutely chaos, isn't it? in the tory party today, a divided party from divided from top to bottom and weak leadership under rishi sunak. we need this by—election now, as soon as possible. the tories should move the writ. and let's get on and let's elect a labour mp who can represent the people of blackpool here in the house of commons. >> jonathan ashworth, now in the united states, donald trump has today won his bid to pause his £360 million civil fraud judgement if he posts a bond of £140 million in ten days. if you're watching on television, the following does contain some flashing images. it is a victory for the former us president, as it means that new york state

authorities can't now seize his assets. he had been facing a deadune assets. he had been facing a deadline today to post bond for the fine, which he was given for inflating his net worth if he didn't meet the deadline, he could have faced having his assets such as trump tower or his plane, seized here. the crown prosecution service has been cleared of wrongdoing in accepting the plea of triple killer valdo calocane without going to trial, a new report says. grace o'malley kumar and barnaby weber, along with school caretaker ian coates, were killed in june last year in nottingham in a spate of knife attacks, while calocane were suffering from schizophrenia. he was sentenced to a hospital order instead of being sent to prison. the crown prosecution service inspectorate said the correct decision was made in accepting the manslaughter pleas on the grounds of diminished responsibility . the two men have responsibility. the two men have been found guilty of murdering a footballer on the dance floor of a nightclub on boxing day . 23 a nightclub on boxing day. 23 year old cody fisher was killed shortly before midnight by a

masked group at the crane club in birmingham in 2022, police have released cctv footage or cctv footage of the night he was killed . 23 year old remy gordon killed. 23 year old remy gordon and 22 year old cammy carpenter were convicted today. the third defendant, 19 year old regan anderson, was found not guilty of murder . a new review into of murder. a new review into social cohesion in britain has revealed chilling levels of so—called harassment, posing a serious threat to schools . the serious threat to schools. the review, led by government adviser dame saira khan , found adviser dame saira khan, found that more than 75% of the public feel they can't speak their mind. 27% have employed security or moved jobs or house. as part of her review, dame sarah is recommending the establishment of an exclusion zone for protests outside schools . and protests outside schools. and lastly, sarah, duchess of york, says she's full of admiration for the princess of wales. after the announcement about her

treatment for cancer. writing on social media today, the duchess said she hopes kate will now be given the time, space and privacy to heal . those are your privacy to heal. those are your top stories. for the very latest news, sign up to gb news alerts. scan the qr code on your screen or go to gb news .com/ alerts . or go to gb news .com/ alerts. >> thanks very much for that, polly. i am michelle dewberry and i'm with you till 7:00 tonight. so if you're listening tonight. so if you're listening to those headlines, there are you in blackpool, in blackpool south. there that south. that seat there that we're going to have another by—election. i always hear i we're going to have another by—election. i always heari say by—election. i always hear i say it in like brenda from bristol's accent in my own mind. if you are in that seat, i wonder, do you think that is the right move? relishing move? are you relishing the prospect by—election or prospect of a by—election or not? even bother not? will you even bother turning fascinated to turning out? i'm fascinated to hear tonight, alongside hear from you tonight, alongside me seven. keeping me me till seven. keeping me company. deputy of company. the deputy leader of reform habib , and the reform uk, ben habib, and the broadcast judita broadcast journalist judita dasilva. to both of

dasilva. good evening to both of you, i bet you're relishing a by—election but i'm not going to get into. i'm not going to get into that. i want my, my blackpool, viewers to tell me their thoughts. how to their thoughts. you know how to get of me tonight? gb views get hold of me tonight? gb views at com is how you can at gb news. com is how you can email you can tweet or x email me, or you can tweet or x me at gb news. i really want to get stuck into tonight. this big report out today about social cohesion or lack of actually so many people actually dare even really they think really say what they think anymore they're anymore because they're terrified about the ramifications that. want to ramifications of that. i want to look these so—called look at these so—called community leaders, self—appointed, way , that self—appointed, by the way, that seem to be causing quite a few problems in certain scenarios. i want to explore all of it. there was a very damning findings as well. when it comes to the batley school teacher, we'll get into all of that worry nots. but before we do, let's talk china, shall we? because the prime minister has described as minister has described china as the threat uk's the biggest threat to the uk's economic can economic security. now i can cross live to our gb news home and security editor mark white. good evening to you, mark. bring my viewers up to speed with what

on earth has been going on now? >> well, these are cyber attacks that have taken place over the last few years in fact, that the government has now pointed the finger firmly at the chinese state, in particular, an attack that happened in 2021, which which attacked the electoral commission and some 40 million people's details were compromised during that attack. also that time , 43 individuals, also that time, 43 individuals, including mps and peers, were the victims of cyber attacks as well. so the government coming out today and pointing the finger, as i say firmly at beijing. but i have to say, listening to the deputy prime minister as he made his statement to the commons and then listening to the reaction of mps in the chamber, it was a

sense of, well, is that it? you know, it had been heavily trailed in the newspapers that this was the british government, about to get really tough with the chinese government for what has been going on. but really all that was mentioned in the way of any kind of sanctions. here were a couple of officials who are on the sanctions list and a very small company with about 50 employees, also being sanctioned. and in addition to that , the chinese ambassador that, the chinese ambassador will be summoned before the foreign secretary some three years after the events , one of years after the events, one of the mps in the chamber said it was as if the government had gone to a gunfight with a wooden spoon.ian gone to a gunfight with a wooden spoon. ian duncan smith, the former, head of the well , the former, head of the well, the leader of the conservative party himself, an outspoken critic of the chinese communist party and who has been the subject of a

number of cyber attacks. he said the government's approach was like an elephant giving birth to a mouse . he like an elephant giving birth to a mouse. he said like an elephant giving birth to a mouse . he said that he a mouse. he said that he wouldn't be intimidated by what beijing was doing. he would continue to be an outspoken critic of the chinese government, but he's been the subject of multiple cyber attacks over the years, including on one occasion, someone who was impersonating him , emailing lots of contacts him, emailing lots of contacts of his, saying that he'd recanted his views on the chinese state, so that's kind of dirty tricks that they're up to it is a big and a growing, a growing problem, not just in china, but russia, north korea, iran , a number of other iran, a number of other countries that want to sow division in western democracies. >> indeed, fascinating stuff. that's our homeland security edhon that's our homeland security editor, mark white. thank you very much. i mean, i've got to say, i was trying not to laugh, actually, at some of the

descriptions that have been used, but i dare say that beijing are probably not quaking in boots right now. in their boots right now. >> i don't think they're >> no, i don't think they're quaking all. and it is a home quaking at all. and it is a home made isn't it? over the made problem, isn't it? over the last years, had last 20 years, we've had successive governments actually trading china, getting trading with china, getting progressively friendlier with china only four years ago to, five years ago, theresa may was thinking of having our next nuclear facility built by china. four years ago, boris johnson was going to put huawei through our 5g network and even to cameron , of course, he's coming cameron, of course, he's coming under fire today as well. absolutely. and osborne , i mean, absolutely. and osborne, i mean, they were the ones who wanted to take china under their wing. and we've created an unholy relationship with china we relationship with china where we trade . our trade is so dependent trade. our trade is so dependent on chinese product , on cheap chinese product, including, by the way, electric vehicles, which are now flooding western and uk, which western europe and the uk, which presumably could be switched off by the flick of a switch in beijing , so by the flick of a switch in beijing, so we've by the flick of a switch in beijing , so we've got really beijing, so we've got really unjoined up or non joined up thinking on china and the last

foreign policy point i'd just like to make is that we've all sat back in the west and allowed china to roll out its belt and roads programme right across africa , south asia, establishing africa, south asia, establishing a political and economic presence in countries which we have issued relationships with because they're not democratic or for whatever are high minded, idealistic principles are when actually we should have been taking steps to see china out of those resource rich countries. we've sat here and invited china into the position it's in, and we've been asleep on on it. and the last thing i just quickly say is donald trump warned us about china when he was president and everyone rolled their eyes at and the liberal educated elite all thought this was trump , educated elite all thought this was trump, you educated elite all thought this was trump , you know, doing was trump, you know, doing another trumpian kind of, do you remember the skit where you just see donald trump repeatedly saying, china, china, china? it's because he was warning us about china as he did about russia. we've been asleep at the

wheel and now we've got to wake up. by the way, i don't think a knee jerk reaction to china now is going to be the answer. we've got to take a measured response which extricates ourself from this problem i just which extricates ourself from this fto 3lem i just which extricates ourself from this fto bring i just which extricates ourself from this fto bring in i just which extricates ourself from this fto bring in a i just which extricates ourself from this fto bring in a couple jst which extricates ourself from this fto bring in a couple of want to bring in a couple of years before i bring you in today, sir gary, says, michel, it's simple. we simply it's all very simple. we simply cannot without china anymore. cannot do without china anymore. yeah, it makes that point that we've just been hearing there as well, is pretty much well, which is pretty much everything, that we now everything, that we use now seems have been , either made seems to have been, either made entirely in china or certainly components of, david says the thing would scare china the thing that would scare china the most is if we start to make our own things once more , he says, own things once more, he says, though perhaps we've let our manufacturing sectors go to rack and ruin, haven't we? david says michel , you've all gone bonkers, michel, you've all gone bonkers, not only at gb news, but the country at large, he says. who on earth wants to actually take on earth wants to actually take on china, boris etc. thinks we should be taking on china as well, he says. meanwhile, you can't even protect a batley school teacher. what are you

guys on? he asks. but you don't quite ask it like that. but it's tea time. but that's how i've summarised it, theresa, what do you think? summarised it, theresa, what do youi:hink? summarised it, theresa, what do youi do k? summarised it, theresa, what do youi do agree that it's >> i do agree that it's a self—created problem, but the situation they're finding themselves, finding themselves, you're finding yourselves now is yourselves in in the uk now is china has become the second china is has become the second largest economy in the world. that's not by accident. they have they're particularly adept at productivity at low at high productivity at low cost, which they outsource to the world. and that's what the world has taken advantage of. so it was the writing was on the wall from the beginning. what you have now here is china trying to test that, having had this has been decades in the building, and now they're trying to of what to test the resilience of what they've built. when you've webbed out, the webbed yourself out, the dependency country , dependency on your country, throughout how much throughout the world. how much power do i have, power and influence do i have, particularly on an influential power like uk? now they've power like the uk? now they've done something as fundamentally wrong the wrong as breaching the electorate. got to do electorate. you've got to do something, you've got to be seen to do something, and that something has to have effect. it cannot look like a slap on the

wrist, then? wrist, but like what then? >> what? >> do what? >> do what? >> that's you have to think >> that's what you have to think about, because the they're about, because the what they're going is how do going to be thinking is how do i mitigate risk? because xi jinping, like putin, is a reactionary leader. if you take out they will return out sanctions, they will return fire. the withstand that? fire. can the uk withstand that? what have been what the uk should have been doing outsourcing dependency. doing is outsourcing dependency. the things you need china for, you be finding under you should be finding under other to it . other countries to do it. >> but that ship has sailed now. >> but that ship has sailed now. >> but problems >> but but with problems like this. too when this. well it's too late when you talk too late, that is you talk about too late, that is true. you've got to build true. but you've got to build going forward. you've got to make changes, very make very quick changes, very substantive changes that substantive changes now so that five down line, you substantive changes now so that five contend »wn line, you substantive changes now so that five contend with line, you substantive changes now so that five contend with notine, you substantive changes now so that five contend with not having| can contend with not having china being so dependent on china be being so dependent on china. otherwise all they're going prove you to you is going to prove to you to you is that the uk needs us. and so we can anything with the uk can do anything with the uk without any reaction. >> my mind, you >> it always blows my mind, you know, china seems to just know, that china seems to just got off the hook for covid. they brought the world's economies pretty much to its knees and then some. >> the wuhan virus. what consequences were there for that? >> nothing. >> nothing. >> yeah well the who. is you

know, one of its largest funders is china . and we're about, by is china. and we're about, by the way, to hand over pandemic management in this country to the w.h.o. it's daft management in this country to the who. it's daft as brushes. it is. >> let me ask you as well, another thing that's caught my eye today in the world of politics is rishi sunak. he's been speaking out about the importance of basically nuclear when our defence, when it comes to our defence, earmarking a lot more money to be spent in that area as well. do you agree with him? >> i do think we must have a nuclear deterrent. i don't think ukraine been invaded ukraine would have been invaded by had we, the west, by russia had we, the west, united states, uk and russia signed a treaty with them in 1994, disarming them of their of their nuclear weapons. but the sad thing is, our trident deterrent system doesn't work. they to test it in 2016. they tried to test it in 2016. it failed. they tested it on 30th january. it failed. so putin must be looking at the trident nuclear deterrent and thinking, well, my goodness. >> but they came out, didn't they? and said, actually, it only failed just because of a few of the seconds of actually in real life. >> sure. of course, michelle, in

a real live firing situation, it would like dream. would have worked like a dream. absolutely. failed, absolutely. the test failed, but it'll on the night. it'll be fine on the night. >> do you agree that nuclear is a part of our deterrent, a key part of our deterrent, overall, i don't. i think you're going down a slippery slope in general when you look at the lay of the land in the world today. yes it is. it is key. but the fact is, i keep going to this quote from christopher nolan's oppenheimer , where at the end, oppenheimer, where at the end, one of the scientists says that, yeah, all well good for yeah, it's all well and good for now until somebody else builds a bigger build, you bigger bomb. if you build, you bolster capability. bolster your nuclear capability. other think, other countries will think, oh, i've to bolster mine. so i've got to bolster mine. so it's bigger you keep going it's bigger and you keep going and does and you keep going. where does it you get to a point it end? until you get to a point where everybody that this where everybody says that this is such a danger, one can use is such a danger, no one can use it. is just a problem it. this is just a problem that's going to get beyond our control. people cease that's going to get beyond our co think people cease that's going to get beyond our co think that ople cease that's going to get beyond our co think that this cease that's going to get beyond our co think that this is cease that's going to get beyond our co think that this is the cease that's going to get beyond our co think that this is the only; to think that this is the only way go. way to go. >> but would you like in the climate as it is with some of the leaders as they are, we've just been touching upon some of them. you wouldn't them. surely you wouldn't think. you let's start you know what? let's start moving scrapping moving towards, scrapping trident back or

anything. >> i think that's the way to go. but it's like in two minds but it's like i'm in two minds where based on everybody where based on if everybody comes gunfight with guns, comes to the gunfight with guns, you've got to show up with a gun. otherwise you're an idiot. you've got to show up with a gun the 1erwise you're an idiot. you've got to show up with a gun the factise you're an idiot. you've got to show up with a gun the factisewho re an idiot. you've got to show up with a gun the factisewho re an idit?. but the fact is who started it? and you to unify the and you have to unify the mentality everyone saying mentality of everyone saying that still enemies, that we can still be enemies, but got to find a but we've got to find a different way to fight because this is detrimental to everyone. well i think well i mean, i, i think the nuclear deterrent kept peace nuclear deterrent has kept peace throughout war. throughout the cold war. >> if it wasn't for >> you know, if it wasn't for the nuclear deterrent, might the nuclear deterrent, we might have hot war with the ussr have had a hot war with the ussr as it was then much earlier. but we did have the nuclear non—proliferation treaty for many now many years. and of course, now that's waste russia that's lying in waste as russia is rebuilding, expanding is rebuilding, it's expanding its arsenal . but is rebuilding, it's expanding its arsenal. but our its nuclear arsenal. but our arsenal doesn't even work, michel. that's my point. the united kingdom is so broken in its defence capability, not just nuclear, but also conventional, which is which is absolutely crucial. you've got to have a strong conventional army , and strong conventional army, and we've hollowed out that army repeatedly. i saw shapps today was talking about when a pre—war penod

was talking about when a pre—war period you're always in a pre—war period, you're either at war or you're in a pre—war period. there is no such thing as a peace dividend, which is two most, you know, the combination of two words that's huack combination of two words that's hijack the defence of this country . there was never a peace country. there was never a peace dividend. we always had to pay the money required to have a strong military. so we had the insurance required to make sure people like putin would never think attacking the united think of attacking the united kingdom. that's how works. kingdom. that's how it works. >> throughout history, >> but throughout history, there's been rogue there's always been rogue elements. there always elements. there will always be individuals that believe that you can't. are not you can't. they are not answerable to collective. so answerable to the collective. so if this deterrent that if you have this deterrent that everyone functions in way that everyone functions in a way that if move, we can move to if you move, we can move to there'll be one person that says, don't care. and we've says, i don't care. and we've seen that throughout history. and those and because there are those rogue and history has rogue elements and history has taught they keep coming. you taught us they keep coming. you should landscape should not provide a landscape where thrive in a way where they can thrive in a way thatis where they can thrive in a way that is detrimental the world. >> anyone that's been to hiroshima have, you've >> anyone that's been to hirosthe,| have, you've >> anyone that's been to hirosthe,| absolute you've seen the, the absolute devastation bombs, devastation that these bombs, create . and by then, i mean, create. and by then, i mean, don't forget, that was quite a smaller, one compared to today's

standards. but one of the things that always baffles me, because i would like to live in a world that's don't need that's that you don't need nuclear deterrence. wonderful. that's that you don't need nuc|that'seterrence. wonderful. that's that you don't need nuc|that's notance. wonderful. that's that you don't need nuc|that's not real wonderful. that's that you don't need nuc|that's not real life nderful. that's that you don't need nuc|that's not real life atarful. that's that you don't need nuc|that's not real life at the .. but that's not real life at the moment, is it? it's not. we don't live in a perfect world, and i always find it fascinating when ask potential when people ask potential leaders, that leaders, would you press that button? floundering button? they start floundering around. they dare around. it's as though they dare say, yes, i i find it so say, yes, i would. i find it so odd because what is the point in having a deterrent if you wouldn't? say, yeah, wouldn't? and boldly say, yeah, damn press that damn right i would press that button people's, were button if my people's, were threatened in that way. what do you make to it all? do you think this all needed or do you this is all needed or do you think it's time to start scaling it or even scrapping it? it back, or even scrapping it? your thoughts views at gb your thoughts gb views at gb news. is how you reach me. news. com is how you reach me. coming up after the break, i want talk you about this want to talk to you about this very important report that's out today, all about extremism, social much social cohesion. there is much to unpick we'll get into it to unpick and we'll get into it in two.

okay. hello there. i am joined by deputy leader of reform uk, ben habib, and the broadcast journalist judite de silva. it all goes on, in the breaks in this programme, i can tell you, ladies and gents, let's have a look. what you guys have been saying to that first story, shall we? someone here is saying, janet, you sum it up quite well , you say we'd have quite well, you say we'd have world us women ruled world peace if us women ruled the world. you agree with that? yes, i do, do you? i do short and sweet. there, any any men out there? >> but can a man self—identify as a woman and then equally run the world? well? oh, well, there you go. you're opening up whole can of worms and a whole can of worms. >> and i'll tell you what is also whole can of also opened. a whole can of worms. seen the khan worms. have you seen the khan review? released review? that's been released today? about focusing today? it was all about focusing on so—called social cohesion and extremism in the uk. i confess, for one of the first times, actually, i've read all 150 pages of it. i might have fallen to sleep a couple of times dunng to sleep a couple of times during that reading, so don't

test me on it all. but i've got to say, in all seriousness, i really found it quite chilling, actually, let me just show you just first of all, a clip from the editor of this report. >> you say that three quarters of people can't express their views. mean ? views. what do you mean? >> so what i describe in my report is this phenomenon called freedom restricting harassment, which experience which is when people experience or witness threatening, intimidatory or abusive harassment , intimidatory or abusive harassment, either online or offline, which is then intended to make individuals or institutions self—censor out of fear . fear. >> so let's just have a little look, a drill into some of these statistics that we've just mentioned there from the author. i can just bring these up. so 85% of the public believe , that 85% of the public believe, that this situation, this freedom restricting harassment that we've just described occurs in the uk. 60% of it believe the problem is worse now than five years ago. nearly 80% of the pubuc years ago. nearly 80% of the public reported restricting their personal views in public and nearly 70% of people feel that basically , they have to try

that basically, they have to try and change the way that they live their lives due to this stuff. i mean, i find that fascinating and really quite concerning that nearly 80% of british public, according to this report, cannot be honest about what they feel. >> and it is terrible. and we know that from 2016. do you remember ? we were ashamed, some remember? we were ashamed, some of us, not me, but some of us are ashamed to claim that we were brexiteers because, you know , somehow if you wanted the know, somehow if you wanted the united kingdom to become an independent, country, independent, sovereign country, you a far right a you were a far right or a lunatic swivel eyed. that's how bizarre the conversation had got. and it's got progressively worse since then . i made a joke worse since then. i made a joke earlier on about, you know, a man identifying as a woman and running the world. but actually nowadays, if you talk out against the trans ideology or you talk against critical race theory, or you challenge black lives matter or you challenge diversity, equality and inclusion, which i think is more like division, inequality and

exclusion, you are castigated in the institutions in which you work. people are being shut work. so people are being shut down. being shut down. down. debate is being shut down. diversity thought is being diversity of thought is being shut down. and we talk about the report talks about islamic extremism and extremism , extremism and extremism, extremism and extremism, extremism on the right. actually, there is a far left extreme ism that's going on. it is the far left that is shutting down debate in this country because it thinks it has settled all the major ideological and philosophical debates that we have to have. and if we don't accept their position on it, then we're somehow out of sync. >> is that fair, editor? >> is that fair, editor? >> i'm not. i don't think so. because what you we kind of have a situation now in society that it's all about reactionary politics. the theory of what social cohesion is about works its works on. they talk about a horizontal and a vertical, a vertical level, and it's a deal hierarchically and to the different niveau of social, socioeconomic class . and when socioeconomic class. and when you think about it, it's

basically talking about the recognition of individuals who can function together to make the totality more positive, more productive and more successful. thatis productive and more successful. that is great. you're basically describing a utopia. what happens is within the fault lines of that structure, you have people that feel threatened that it's almost like mccarthy, the mccarthy era, the fear of communism as being antithetical to capitalist ideals of to the capitalist ideals of america, that you believe that there should be a potential for hierarchy because there's rich and there is poor, but if you see as equal, see everyone as equal, it destroys your to be destroys your ability to be better than others. that is, that was an issue. we saw how that was an issue. we saw how that played out with here. there's a fear that certain groups or certain people can no longer feel enabled or superior or powerful. if everyone is seen as the same, which is not the truth of it. and so you get certain voices that exploit that insecurity or that feeling that i'm not quite sure, and they stoke flames of paranoia and stoke the flames of paranoia and insecurity. and then you have a situation where there are people

who are seen on the outsides, people who are seen on the inside, and they're saying that by them are threatening you by them they are threatening you , and therefore you never actually in the middle to actually meet in the middle to just three of just talk. look at the three of us. have different ideals on us. we have different ideals on different but there is different things, but there is zero us. we zero animosity between us. we can a conversation, can can have a conversation, we can disagree and then move on and coexist. that is something that's out of that's come out has come out of what you what conversation. you understand come from, understand where i come from, why come from there? because why i come from there? because of conversation. of the of conversation. most of the times there's such times that there's such violence, disagreement, they've never talked to never actually just talked to each other and listened because all you've done is stoke fear and i create and preconception. can i create and preconception. can i create an that this person is not an idea that this person is not like me and therefore not for me? >> yeah, but can i just challenge that because it is perfectly acceptable in everyday life to say black lives matter? it would not be. it would not be socially acceptable to say white lives matter. it's perfectly acceptable for sadiq khan to say at least 40% of the met should be from ethnic minorities, but it would be impossible for anyone to at 60% of anyone to say at least 60% of the be white, which

the met should be white, which is inverse of the same is the inverse of the same statement. there is an absolute hijacking of debate, and it comes from the left, it comes from sadiq khan and people like that who don't want their principles challenged, who want the division , they want identity the division, they want identity politics. >> because i do agree there are certain people who do that. but what always frustrates me about the black lives matter conversation is i always ask people many black people that how many black people that how many black people do you just talk to about black lives matter? like, just talk to me about it, because when you say oh, if you when you say that, oh, if you said white lives matter, my reaction is like, you reaction is like, do you understand what black lives matter is about? it's because our has been so our existence has been so subhuman so long subhuman and subpar for so long that all we're saying is that we just want to matter the same as everyone else. >> but then you should say all lives matter. there is no there's no antidote to saying all matter, but they all lives do matter, but they don't matter equally yet. >> what saying is that >> so what we're saying is that bnng >> so what we're saying is that bring to an equilibrium and bring it to an equilibrium and black matter wouldn't black lives matter wouldn't exist black lives matter wouldn't exisbut what you're proposing is >> but what you're proposing is to promote black lives over and

above everyone else's life in to order make the point. >> it's what, spurred on by george floyd show me footage of any white person who has been who has eight minute footage of basically being slowly murdered by a police officer. >> it has happened. i mean, i don't think, by the way, that that that is actually relevant to the debate . to the debate. >> it is relevant to the debates because it was the flashpoints that spurred on the power of what black lives matter is today. changed the status today. it has changed the status quo it was such a quo because it was such a dehumanising and evil thing to watch in real time. yeah, but it has to social it has watch in real time. yeah, but it has tcblackl it has watch in real time. yeah, but it has tcblack people it has watch in real time. yeah, but it has tcblack people ait has watch in real time. yeah, but it has tcblack people a voice watch in real time. yeah, but it has tc black people a voice to given black people a voice to vocalise their everyday vocalise what their everyday lived that lived experience has been. that they felt they could. but you don't. >> you don't achieve equality by demanding i mean, demanding superiority. i mean, i even now claims about that's even see now claims about that's why to black that why talk to black people that you remember what i said before about a preconception going in. >> have to eradicate >> you have to eradicate preconception. desire preconception. i have no desire to be superior to anyone. i have every desire to be equal to everyone . everyone. >> but help me understand this

notion, because you just said a second ago then about black people being treated as though they're subhuman. >> not charting it >> and i'm not charting it through history, from slavery to jim colonisation day, jim crow to colonisation day, a black is treated as black person is not treated as though subhuman. though they're subhuman. >> this by any >> in this country by any stretch of anyone's imagination. >> arbery, george floyd, >> ahmaud arbery, george floyd, breonna taylor i consider that to be subhuman treatment. well, okay, that with george floyd then, because that's your example that you're using. >> was that how do we know that that officer's awful , horrendous that officer's awful, horrendous behaviour and he's in prison now, obviously. how do we know that that was motivated by the colour of george floyd's skin? that's i just asked. >> please, i can bring like a horrible thing to do, but i can literally log on and just show because talk like the because they talk about like the trauma social media that trauma of social media that especially you have your especially when you have your algorithms after algorithms just video after video video of what video after video of what happens to black people. >> now, i've seen this video of george. >> i'm asking, but i said that. >> i'm asking, but i said that. >> how do you know that it's different was motivated by different was was motivated by the skin because the colour of his skin because because i'm saying that use the

complete exact same formula because i'm saying that use the com show exact same formula because i'm saying that use the com show exa will quiet. no, no, >> and i will be quiet. no, no, that's not that's not right there, goes down to it's there, is it goes down to it's this has been studied throughout history. there is a perception that comes fear. and why is that comes from fear. and why is it that we and i'm it that we live we and i'm saying this from lived experience. i can walk down my street in the suburbs dressed like this. one just like this. it's one thing just wearing clothes . it's clothes. wearing clothes. it's clothes. what it's called a hoodie. it's a problem . i've had my a problem. i've had my neighbours call the police on my brother because he was filming our own house in a hoodie and i saw police walk him into the house and asked for his id on our streets. we've been on for decades because a black person is wearing clothes. >> if some random guy is in a hoodie filming a house, then that cause suspicion . that would cause suspicion. >> yeah, that's what i just said. he's not a random guy. we've grown up in that house. we've grown up in that house. we've been there for 30. >> but if you got hoodie >> but if you got your hoodie on, do even know where on, how do you even know where it is? >> he's the same. he walks down that street every day. but the

two had same. we've had the two had the same. we've had the same. same same. we've had the same neighbours it's our neighbours for decades. it's our house. they weren't filming your house. they weren't filming your house. property. house. he was on our property. but saying. but are you saying. >> saying that the >> are you saying that the united kingdom basically united kingdom is basically racist ethnic? racist against ethnic? not. so. what saying? what are you saying? >> i saying that you cannot >> i am saying that you cannot invalidate racist invalidate the racist experiences black people experiences that black people have throughout their have had throughout their lifetime. them lifetime. that makes them feel that have an existence that that they have an existence that isn't white peoples, and by isn't like white peoples, and by recognising, it's appreciating isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting|, it's appreciating isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting int's appreciating isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting in at appreciating isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting in a way reciating isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting in a way that ting isn't like white peoples, and by reco acting in a way that can and acting in a way that can remedy, it's going further and further. they feel that they're going to be integrated into society way that makes them society in a way that makes them feel equal. >> that's the only way to achieve equality is to demand equality, the promotion equality, not for the promotion of ethnic minorities over and above and if necessary, to the detriment of the majority over and above. because the regulatory framework under which we operate diversity. we discussed this last time on the program diversity, equality and inclusion requires the promotion of minorities. it requires that institutions recruit ethnic minorities, transgender , more minorities, transgender, more women, a multiplicity of

different. >> it doesn't require the promotion. it requires the inclusion. >> it requires the appointment of and the reporting on the number of ethnic minorities you have on your board, in your programs and so on. the raf, for example, spent £2 million si king on dei . and the raf has king on dei. and the raf has a policy, a stated policy of trying to get more ethnic jet fighter pilots in rather than one based on meritocracy. martin luther king said right at the beginning, it's not about the colour of your skin, it's about the content of your character. and that is the only way we can create equality. >> well, carry this >> well, i'll carry this conversation on. actually. it's very so very interesting. there's so much unpick about this much to unpick about this report, the things that report, one of the things that features in this report features heavily in this report is battle grammar school is the battle grammar school teacher. you remember that story. to this . story. listen to this. >> you mentioned there the case of the school in batley, where a teacher to go into hiding, teacher had to go into hiding, for discussing and dealing with and looking at a with the children, a caricature of the

prophet muhammad, how many other battles are there? >> well, i can tell you, there have been lots of teachers who've experienced threats and abuse. i mean, had many abuse. i mean, i had many teachers contact me describing this of fear that they this level of fear that they have, and a new polling out recently that showed that teachers are very fearful about teaching some of these issues because they worry about the backlash that they're going to experience. we experience. the problem we have at moment is, is that the at the moment is, is that the department education don't department for education don't collect of data, so collect this level of data, so we don't actually know the full scale it. i think that this scale of it. i think that this is the tip of the iceberg. is just the tip of the iceberg. >> you now, right. >> i can tell you now, right. this notion fear, amount this notion of fear, the amount of fear people have right of fear that people have right now in society, is absolutely immense. why in this day and age, scenario where age, do we have a scenario where teachers counsellors , and it teachers and counsellors, and it goes and in this report, goes on and on in this report, are terrified because of groups threatening police threatening them? and the police do much we'll do pretty much nothing. we'll come to that after the

break. okay. hi there. i'm michelle

dewberry keeping you company till 7:00 tonight, juditha da silva and ben habib remain alongside me. there's lots that i want to talk to you about, not least, though this report that's been issued today, have you seen this report? it's all about the lack of social cohesion. basically, the amount of extremism, the amount of fear that in society about that exists in society about people actually being honest about what they truly, think and feel. i want to read this. there's a lot of case studies within this report . one of them within this report. one of them is from a council leader, and they says a leader of a council have received thousands of death threats, messages threats, letters and messages saying following threats, letters and messages sayihome, following threats, letters and messages sayihome, threats following threats, letters and messages sayihome, threats to following threats, letters and messages sayihome, threats to myyllowing threats, letters and messages sayihome, threats to my two ling threats, letters and messages sayihome, threats to my two year me home, threats to my two year old about being gang old daughter about being gang raped and trafficked, they say i received these messages either as letters to my home, sorry to the office, or direct messages on twitter or online forums. i have to make my daughter sleep next to a fire blanket in case someone firebombs my home. as a previous councillor has had her property firebombed, she says people are fearful they want to

defend me publicly, but they know too well that experience pylons will happen if they do. the response from the police has been dismal and i've had little support. it's made me question whether i want to stay in politics and this kind of story. these case studies are echoed throughout this report , and i throughout this report, and i played you the story about the batley grammar school. in fact, actually, let me just replay that clip in case you've just tuned in. you don't know what i'm talking about. listen the i'm talking about. listen to the reports you mentioned there, the case the school in batley case of the school in batley where a teacher had to go into hiding, discussing hiding, for discussing and deaung hiding, for discussing and dealing looking a dealing with and looking at a with the children, a caricature of prophet how of the prophet muhammad, how many other batley's are there? >> you, there >> well, i can tell you, there have been lots of teachers who've experienced threats and abuse. had many abuse. i mean, i had many teachers contact me describing this that they this level of fear that they have, and a new polling out recently that showed that teachers are very fearful about teaching some of these issues because they worry about the backlash that they're going to experience. the problem we have at moment is, is that the

at the moment is, is that the department education don't department for education don't collect of data, collect this level of data, so we don't actually the full we don't actually know the full scale it. i think that this scale of it. i think that this is just the tip of the iceberg. >> the tip of the >> i think it's the tip of the iceberg, too. i do too, yeah. iceberg, too. i i do too, yeah. she talks a lot about so—called self—appointed like community leaders getting involved, sticking in terms sticking their nose in in terms of what and what can't be of what can and what can't be taught, what teachers are allowed what they're allowed to say and what they're not allowed say. allowed to say and what they're not and wed say. allowed to say and what they're not and it'll say. allowed to say and what they're not and it'll varyay. allowed to say and what they're notand it'll varyay. community >> and it'll vary from community to and think what to community. and i think what we're here, michelle, is we're seeing here, michelle, is the of multiculturalism the evidence of multiculturalism , completely failing. and we talked the report i think talked about the report i think is headed social cohesion. well, the word social society requires a common culture, a common language, common laws, all these things are set aside by multiculturalism. what we do with multiculturalism is say you can practice your own culture in your silo. there's no obligation on any of us to mix with you or any any attempt made to integrate any attempt for a common value system or common cultural heritage to develop. you can speak your own language,

and in some cases in this country you can practice your own law alongside british law, which i find absolutely abominable. so when we talk about social cohesion, there's no surprise that we don't have it. we have a broken society because a multicultural ism. we have had rampant immigration over the last 25 years with no attempt made and none possible, given the speed at which people have been coming in, none possible to create an integrated, settled, settled , integrated, settled, settled, what i would call a settled social construct. so i'm not surprised at all by that report. and i do hold by what i said earlier. people are very shy of saying what they believe because some group or another will be offended . people in my office offended. people in my office don't speak about politics. they're fearful of it because, i mean, they know my views, but not because of me, but because they're fearful of what would happen , you know, more broadly, happen, you know, more broadly, if they if they aired their views , maybe you're intimidating. >> no, i'm not actually i'm not.

maybe we're on to something. >> theresa. >> theresa. >> your thoughts i do i completely agree that what needs to what's missing is that there has to an imposed education has to be an imposed education of integration is of how integration is a necessity. it's not. it's non—negotiable. but the whole idea of multiculturalism is a recognition of differences , recognition of differences, because no one wants to move towards a homogenised existence, because it eradicates the value of the individual. every culture is unique and has its value, and contributory collectively is something that is positive. but i do agree that every individual pocket must be seen to function towards a collective good. that is why there has to. if you're an immigrant coming in similar to what they have in germany. and when you want to get a visa in america, they make you go and study and take exams. there are things that should be fundamental to be in fundamental that to be in britain have to qualify britain you have to qualify above other, equal to or above the when it comes to the threshold. when it comes to functioning collective functioning for the collective society, different society, speaking different languages, not languages, that is not a problem. you do have to problem. but you do have to speak english. you have to function office spaces because

that language of the that is the language of the country. all of country. i agree with all of that britain is britain that because britain is britain and has be a respect and there has to be a respect for but for britain to for britain, but for britain to be britain, not need the be britain, you do not need the eradication of everyone else. we talked previously about nuclear power. sunak power. look at when rishi sunak talks power. how power. look at when rishi sunak talyou power. how power. look at when rishi sunak talyou get power. how power. look at when rishi sunak talyou get nuclear power. how power. look at when rishi sunak talyou get nuclear energy?how power. look at when rishi sunak talyou get nuclear energy? it's do you get nuclear energy? it's from uranium. does the from uranium. where does the majority of uk's uranium come from? namibia. what does that say? in order to make the uk better, you can farm the resources of another country to make you better. so why will why does africa function to make you better? but an african in your country made to feel like country is made to feel like they're not worth the recognition. well, it's completely that is not no, no, international not international trade is not synonymous coming synonymous with people coming freely country. with synonymous with people coming freeihand, country. with synonymous with people coming freeihand, you country. with synonymous with people coming freeihand, you caantry. with synonymous with people coming freeihand, you can recognise| synonymous with people coming freeihand, you can recognise the one hand, you can recognise the value collective good, but value of a collective good, but on the other hand you see it as a . that doesn't work. a threat. that doesn't work. >> but we presumably pay for the uranium we import. >> oh, mean, could go into >> oh, i mean, we could go into that. that isn't exactly that. and how that isn't exactly the kind of payments that it should be. but i'm showing. so showing recognise showing that uk can recognise things even if i were to things like even if i were to let me have moment of complete

let me have a moment of complete eradication my feeling i eradication of my feeling and i put box what i think of put in a box what i think of colonialism and just look at it as a business model. britain as a business model. the britain is want to make it is britain. you want to make it great. and of great. they realise in and of themselves country they themselves that the country they did what needed to did not have what they needed to achieve the greatness they wanted. so they no, wanted. and so they went, no, that's completely misunderstanding how the british empire waking i'm empire emerged. i'm waking. i'm trying make business trying to make it a business model, the actuality of the model, not the actuality of the europeans a business model europeans had a business model of we didn't . we went abroad. we >> we didn't. we went abroad. we traded, we settled our . traded, we settled our. >> we're going into what actually what actually happened , actually what actually happened, particularly in nigeria and other places like that. when you're going to farm resource from other countries because you recognise they have something of value that could benefit you. i have no problem with that. the execution inhumane. and then execution was inhumane. and then we minutiae of the we get into the minutiae of the problems with that whole model. that shows that this is that is a shows that this is a country that knows collective value is a good is a greater good, well, we'll carry on this conversation the break. conversation after the break. i'll what. it's i'll tell you what. it's also a country that knows it's country that knows that it's absolutely shameful and disgusting that that batley grammar teacher still

grammar school teacher is still in honestly you need to in hiding. honestly you need to look at this report, everybody. the way he has been failed is absolutely eye—watering christopher herbst, the author of that report for me today , of that report for me today, whether or not she thinks he should get some kind of state compensation , she didn't really compensation, she didn't really answer that question, which i thought was little bit of a thought was a little bit of a shame. anyway, conversation shame. anyway, the conversation will into.

hi there. i'm michelle dewberry title seven. deputy leader of reform uk. ben habib is alongside me, as is the broadcast journalist judita de silva. welcome back, everybody. we're carrying on that conversation about the quran review which basically review today, which basically says when it comes to social cohesion, the country is a little bit of a mess, to put it mildly. one of my viewers, andy, has written in and said, michel, look at the country. the leaders of england, scotland and wales are all from minority ethnic minorities . if that's not

minorities. if that's not successful integration, i don't know what it is. >> well, i think it actually proves that multiculturalism isn't working. we've got a first minister of northern ireland who wants to break the united kingdom up, won't condemn ira terrorism . we've got a first terrorism. we've got a first minister in scotland who wants to take scotland out the to take scotland out of the united and all sorts united kingdom and has all sorts of inclinations towards hamas in a way that i would find intolerable for anyone holding high office in this country to have. high office in this country to have . and then you've got, well, have. and then you've got, well, you've got, you know, whatever you've got, you know, whatever you've got, you know, whatever you've got in wales, which is a bit peculiar. and then we've got england, which actually doesn't really no, really govern itself. no, i don't i don't think don't think, i don't think multiculturalism is working. and if take your lead from if you're to take your lead from devolution, i think you just you, prove the point. but you, you prove the point. but i think the point that andy, the viewer was making is that so many people many reports many people and so many reports of say, oh, this of whatever say, oh, this country institutionally country is institutionally racist . country is institutionally raci but country is institutionally racibut if the country was >> but if the country was institutionally racist, then why would of the would those leaders of the highest in those areas highest office in those areas come ethnic minority backgrounds? >> well, you see, that's the

that thing. that's that's something fascinates something that always fascinates me, actually when i was me, which is actually when i was looking structure of looking at the structure of social it's a point social cohesion, it's a point that's that people laser in that's made that people laser in on things like race and religion and forget about the totality of what the purpose of social cohesion is. so we have one conversation about islam, then have a conversation about black and white, and then have a conversation about lgbtqia+ and i'm just thinking that you're lasering in on certain things that are so polarising because they fallen into the fractures of when you have a group that is polarising about andy's observation, he's just pointing out that the three pointing out that, oh, they're not white. yeah, i'm saying that's irrelevant. are they the best person the remember the person for the job? remember the conversation when i said conversation we had when i said a has improved, where a company has improved, where you everyone and pick you get to see everyone and pick the best person, but would you get rid dei? get rid of dei? >> get of diversity? >> dei make it more function, >> dei i make it more function, more effective. >> is the purpose of >> so what is the purpose of dei? >> is like i said before, look at everyone equally because you never know what it says is

that's not what it says . that's that's not what it says. that's what the function i believe it has. that's why i said i would regulate to make function regulate it to make it function more effective. >> advocates ethnic >> advocates for having ethnic minorities minute minorities. the minute you advocate regulatory advocate in a regulatory framework for particular framework for a particular outcome, the outcome, you've tipped the balances everyone's not equal. >> i agreed with you that i'm 100% for a meritocracy, but i'm telling you, from lived experience, there are certain competitions i don't even get to be in because of preconceptions i know, i know. >> can i just say something? >> can i just say something? >> go into my private judith raanan? mean, saying that i raanan? i mean, saying that i can? not just like can? i'm not just speaking like out conjecture and theory. it out of conjecture and theory. it is true that there certain is true that there are certain places we even get to places we don't even get to compete. not saying give it compete. i'm not saying give it to over white person to me over a white person because i'm black. that's insulting to my capability. i'm saying, me the room and saying, get me in the room and i'll to you i'm the best i'll prove to you i'm the best person for that, for that position, because i know my capability. position, because i know my capabilithat's position, because i know my capabili that's an position, because i know my capabilithat's an admirable >> and that's an admirable approach. i have approach. but i have to challenge on notion that approach. but i have to cha united on notion that approach. but i have to cha united kingdom notion that approach. but i have to cha united kingdom isiotion that approach. but i have to cha united kingdom isiol any hat approach. but i have to cha united kingdom isiol any way the united kingdom is in any way institutionally racist against ethnic prejudice ethnic minorities. the prejudice goes other way. it's against goes the other way. it's against white that's how that's white people. that's how that's how turvy society has

how topsy turvy our society has become. we promote ethnic and other minorities over and above , other minorities over and above, into the detriment of. >> it's fine to say that across the board, britain is not institutionally racist. across the board. will you say categorically there is no aspects, no areas, no sectors in britain have institutions. britain that have institutions. >> i have institutional racism, no. there may be personal racism. i don't believe there's an institutional racism against ethnic minorities. i believe we are institutions racist are now institutions racist against the majority. >> i can tell you now there'll be a lot of people at home absolutely agreeing with that sentiment. i can hear you all the way from here. this conversation, though, we certainly didn't conclude it here. it will rumble on for another day. but for now, thank you very much , editor. thank you you very much, editor. thank you very much, ben habib. and you know drill as well. you're know the drill as well. you're very important, of course, to the thank you to all of the show. so thank you to all of you to spend that you for choosing to spend that last with us. also don't go last hour with us. also don't go anywhere though because nigel farage is up next. but from me, that's all the night. >> a brighter outlook with boxt

solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> this is your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. good evening to you. the rest of this week we'll be prepared for further heavy downpours and temperatures. staying around about or a little bit average low pressure bit below average low pressure is well and truly in control of our weather and will for be the rest of this week. these weather fronts have been making for a pretty soggy day for much of the uk. the rain across scotland is falling as snow over the hills that continues in the east through elsewhere, it through the night. elsewhere, it does little bit drier , does turn a little bit drier, staying fairly cloudy and some staying fairly cloudy and some staying fairly cloudy and some staying fairly chilly. temperatures down into single figures, not far freezing in figures, not far a freezing in northern scotland and small wintry showers coming into the northern western isles northern and the western isles as we go into tuesday. still a bit more snow over the grampians, although should grampians, although that should ease though to ease further showers though to come east coast of come on the east coast of scotland , central and southern scotland, central and southern scotland, central and southern scotland bit scotland looking a little bit dner scotland looking a little bit drier compared today. it will

scotland looking a little bit driya compared today. it will scotland looking a little bit driya wetter red today. it will scotland looking a little bit driya wetter day today. it will scotland looking a little bit driya wetter day though, it will scotland looking a little bit driya wetter day though, forwill scotland looking a little bit driya wetter day though, for the be a wetter day though, for the southeast as that rain moves in through tuesday that spreads through tuesday and that spreads into and rain again into the midlands and rain again for northern ireland. but something brighter the something a bit brighter in the southwest south and southwest and south wales, and for england to some for eastern england to some glimmers sunshine . but it is glimmers of sunshine. but it is going to feel pretty chilly, particularly across scotland, where the rain and hill snow continues wednesday and continues into wednesday and then elsewhere. it's bands of showers moving in. be prepared for some heavy downpours on wednesday. there will be some brighter spells between the heavy a bit sunshine heavy showers, a bit of sunshine . we'll see temperatures up to double digits but generally feeling in the breeze and feeling cooler in the breeze and plenty more of those heavy showers to come in the run to easter. >> it looks like things are heating boxt boilers heating up. boxt boilers sponsors weather on

gb news. >> good evening. so we learned overnight that it was indeed communist china that hacked the electoral commission's website. and therefore , they had the and therefore, they had the details of million british details of 40 million british voters. what on earth do we do next? dame saira khan has produced a report for the government. and you know what she says? 75% of us are now scared to speak out and say what we really think . is there any we really think. is there any end to this? and the farmers have decided to revolt. and yes, they're in parliament square this evening. i went down to meet some of them earlier on, but what is it? they really want the british government in brexit britain to do? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thank you and good evening to you. well, the top story from the gb newsroom as you've been hearing the deputy prime minister has accused china of being responsible for two