of wales continues for princess of wales continues for another day , as yet another another day, as yet another edhed another day, as yet another edited photograph comes to light . state of the nation starts right now. i'll also be joined by the state of the nation's regular monday night regulars. we may not have jacob for here now, but we do have another rees—mogg, former brexit party mep and journalist annunziata rees—mogg, and the author and broadcaster amy nicholl turner. as ever, and most importantly , we want to most importantly, we want to hear from you this monday night. it's a crucial part of the programme. email me mail mog at gbnews.com. but now it's time for the news of the day with my old pal polly middlehurst.

>> chris, thank you and good evening to you. well, as chris was just saying, mps are due to vote tonight on ten changes to the rwanda bill amendments suggested by peers in the house of lords. peers have been considering and debating the controversial legislation over the few weeks, and now it's the last few weeks, and now it's down to the commons. the legislation aiming to deter illegal migrants from coming to the uk small boats by the uk on small boats by deporting them to rwanda. downing street says the initial cohort of people is now being contacted, the prime contacted, with the prime minister still determined to see the departing later the first plane departing later this spring. >> it's important that we get the rwanda scheme up and running because we need to have a deterrent, we need to make it clear if you come here clear that if you come here illegally, you won't to illegally, you won't be able to stay we will be able to stay and we will be able to remove that is only way remove you. that is the only way to properly solve the issue of illegal we've illegal migration. now, we've made good progress. boat numbers were last year, were down by a third last year, so shows that our plan is so that shows that our plan is working. in order to finish working. but in order to finish the need rwanda the job, we need the rwanda scheme are getting scheme through. we are getting it everyone it through parliament. everyone is to block us, including

is trying to block us, including the party, because they the labour party, because they don't plan to tackle this don't have a plan to tackle this problem. i determined problem. we do. i am determined to through, get the to see it through, get the deterrent and running as deterrent up and running as quickly possible. quickly as possible. >> well, the shadow home secretary, cooper, spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb ary, cooper, spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb news cooper, spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb news todayzooper, spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb news today in per, spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb news today in the spoke >> well, the shadow home se gb news today in the house of to gb news today in the house of commons lobby. she said the government needs get a grip government needs to get a grip on situation. on the situation. >> we need to strengthen our border security and fix the chaos asylum system chaos in the asylum system because under the conservatives we've really seen criminal gangs take hold along the channel and then this huge soaring backlog with asylum hotel use that is costing the taxpayer billions. so instead of all the gimmicks that we've had from rishi sunak and the conservatives our plan is to get a grip that starts with the new cross border police to go after the criminal gangs , to go after the criminal gangs, to go after the criminal gangs, to smash the gang networks and prevent boats arriving on the french coast in the first place. >> well, the prime minister was out and about in the west midlands today, announcing plans to create 20,000 new apprenticeships, pledging £60

million worth of new investment to cover fully funded training for young people and a reduction in red tape for small businesses who take them on. mr sunak says the full cost of apprenticeships will be offered to applicants aged under 21 at small firms from the 1st of april. now the former environment minister, zac goldsmith, has been banned from driving for a year. it's after he was caught breaking the speed limit seven times, driving in london between april and november last year. the conservative peer was also caught speeding on two motorways, most recently in december in his hybrid electric car. december in his hybrid electric can he december in his hybrid electric car. he did plead guilty to all the offences and was fined 5500 pounds and ordered to pay a surcharge of a further £2,000, as well as costs. surcharge of a further £2,000, as well as costs . tata steel as well as costs. tata steel will begin shutting down operations at its site in port talbot from wednesday, they say, due to stability concerns , the due to stability concerns, the steel group has said it's been forced to make the closures earlier than previously planned

because the equipment can no longer be run safely. coke ovens are used to turn coal into coke, are used to turn coal into coke, a key raw material used in the process of making steel. well. tata has about 40 remaining coke ovens operational, with many having already been shut down since they started running in 1981. that's the news for the very latest stories. do sign up for gb news alerts. scan the qr code on the screen right now or go to gb news .com/ alerts . go to gb news .com/ alerts. >> welcome back. now there are under plan could be soon law as soon as thursday in fact. but rishi sunak still has to deal with his counterparts in kigali, who are insisting on a staggered start to migrant deportations. the government may have claimed that already they've identified migrants for the first flight looking for the cohort now, but there are many things to consider here. the house of lords could vote down the plan

on wednesday if it goes to the commons tonight , but this is commons tonight, but this is unlikely as they probably won't want to create a constitutional crisis, although sunak could eventually through eventually force it through parliament with the parliament act. whatever the result of this parliamentary ping pong, the plan will not be quite ready for takeoff . the rwandan government takeoff. the rwandan government wants to pause the scheme for two months after the first flight, would we'd flight, which would mean we'd have one flight in may at the earliest. that's the spring deadune earliest. that's the spring deadline pm set, and deadline the pm has set, and then in july . deadline the pm has set, and then in july. now many then the next in july. now many are looking at the numbers and asking if any of this is actually worth it. the total cost sending 300 migrants, cost of sending 300 migrants, that's 300 migrants is wait for it. £500 million, a considerable amount of money by anyone's calculations. even sir jacob rees—mogg, now labour mp neil coyle, claimed in the commons today that the virgin galactic business can send six people to space for the amount the government is planning to spend. one migrant to rwanda with spacex tickets on sale for

between £150,000 and £350,000, and the national audit office, which looks after public spending for parliament, estimating that the taxpayer could be forking out £2 million per migrant. that number does check out the labour attacking the cost, and they proposed their own ideas. i spoke to yvette cooper, the shadow home secretary earlier today she secretary earlier today and she said this conservatives, we've really seen criminal gangs take hold along the channel and then this huge soaring backlog with asylum hotel use that is costing the taxpayer billions. >> so yeah, we would use that money instead of putting it into the rwanda scheme to putting it into strengthening our border security. instead, let's actually start to tackle some of the problem at source and go after those criminal gangs that are making a fortune from putting lives at risk and undermining our border security . undermining our border security. >> now, the costs may be literally astronomic, but the government maintains that the

deterrence factor is worth it and will stop the boats by breaking the business model of these people traffickers. so where are we and where do we go from here, you ask.7 well, where are we and where do we go from here, you ask? well, don't worry, my guests are here to work it all out for you. don't forget let me your forget to let me know your thoughts. mailmogg@gbnews.com with me now is tory mp for south swindon, sir robert buckland, one of tonight's possible rebels . sir robert, welcome to the gb news. have you started voting yet? >> good evening chris. yeah. the first vote has just happened. and waiting for the second division. there are going to be ten tonight, so mps are going to be here about half past be here till about half past ten, my estimation. ten, by my estimation. >> goodness , i've got all the >> goodness, i've got all the amendments in hands here. amendments in my hands here. these ten changes that these are the ten changes that were made by peers this were made by peers to this rwanda bill. the first rwanda bill. did the first amendment, was it thrown amendment, was it was it thrown out house of commons? i. out by the house of commons? i. >> don't know. haven't had >> don't know. we haven't had the yet. i think that the result yet. i think that amendment adds little and it just creates more legal debate, frankly. what we need

frankly. and that's what we need to reduce in this bill. we need to reduce in this bill. we need to make sure that we do not have more wrangling in the courts and make sure that rwanda says what it has agreed to do in its treaty, that it's signed a few months ago. that's really what we should be aiming for now, getting that operation going. so those can take those planes can take off. >> that's right. first >> that's right. that first amendment maintaining amendment is about maintaining full compliance domestic amendment is about maintaining full international domestic amendment is about maintaining full international law,iomestic amendment is about maintaining full international law, which ic and international law, which should be a baseline for any law you'd imagine you've been tipped off as one of the rebels in quotes. sir robert, which of these different measures will you be voting against the government on? >> well, look, i think there are measures in here to make sure that people who come here through the afghan scheme, those people who supported our country in the west in the fight against extremism by being interpreters and other helpers who , you know, and other helpers who, you know, are in danger for their lives. i think if we see a few more of them coming over from afghanistan, we shouldn't be sending to rwanda . i also sending them to rwanda. i also think to careful think that we need to be careful not across the modern day

not to cut across the modern day slavery laws that we led the world in passing , that that's a world in passing, that that's a vital part of our the way in which we deal with exploitation in plain sight. that's happening across our country. i also think that we should make sure that the reality catches up with the law, and that's why i want ministers to focus on helping and making sure rwanda does what it says it's going to do, so that we don't have to have more merry go round in the supreme court and a question of having to satisfy a court, whether or not the processes indeed not the processes are indeed safe. need to avoid that. and safe. we need to avoid that. and we need to get the law as, clear as possible. in my view, sir robert , that by my count, that's robert, that by my count, that's three of the ten. >> measures and laws. your rebellion tonight, is that right ? >> 7- >> yeah, 7_ >> yeah, it's 7 >> yeah, it's about that . i >> yeah, it's about that. i mean, the government will indeed carry these measures tonight . carry these measures tonight. the question now is what the lords do on wednesday . i think lords do on wednesday. i think that even if there are further ping that even if there are further ping pongs , as we call it, the

ping pongs, as we call it, the government should get this bill through before easter , which is through before easter, which is crucial for their timing, in order to make progress on getting the operations going here, to deal with this, what is an innovative, groundbreaking , an innovative, groundbreaking, approach? which other countries in europe and the rest of the world are looking at very carefully ? carefully? >> do you worry, though, that you're helping out labour here by trying to amend the law, the law past, by back to you, law of the past, by back to you, but it's more to support the measures put in by peers. you're undermining your colleagues in parliament. why are you supporting unelected peers ? supporting unelected peers? >> no, chris, you're breaking up a bit, but i get the gist of it. i'm not supporting the labour party. i mean, i tell you this about the labour party . they about the labour party. they keep a game about keep on talking a game about immigration. they're keep on talking a game about immigrathe. they're keep on talking a game about immigra the fact they're keep on talking a game about immigra the fact the ey're denying the fact that the government progress on government is making progress on shutting down the hotels, reducing the number of small boats , dealing with the albanian boats, dealing with the albanian problem getting a more of problem and getting a more of a grip on this problem than ever

before. i don't hear anything new from labour. i just hear the same old stuff reheated. they have no , sensible approach have no, sensible approach to this trying to say as this and are trying to say as little as possible. what i'm trying to do is make sure that this bill works. you know, keir starmer has said that he wouldn't support the rwanda scheme even if it worked. i mean, that, frankly, is an extreme point of view that we should rejecting. want to should be rejecting. i want to make sure that this works and that we you know , insulated that we are, you know, insulated from challenges in from further challenges in court. and that's why i'm supporting some of these amendments. but not all of them. >> okay. well, sir robert buckland , in between votes, you buckland, in between votes, you join us tonight for a state of the nation. >> we really appreciate it. thank you joining us from thank you for joining us from westminster joined westminster hall. i'm joined now by glasgow by doctor omar hammoud, glasgow fellow in political science and pubuc fellow in political science and public policy. doctor omar , will public policy. doctor omar, will the rwanda plan work? >> no, it will not, i think it's very clear, the prime minister has said so in the past, several ministers have said so. the pm thinks it will work similar. no,

no, no, no, he said in the past he's been on the record saying when he was chancellor, this is a plan should be rubbished. a plan that should be rubbished. and we i with and absolutely we i agree with him. it's never him. it's a plan that it's never going it's absolutely going to work. it's absolutely costly. said earlier, for costly. as you said earlier, for 300 individuals to be relocated to rwanda, that will cost more than half £1 billion. how is this even possible to be fair, to be fair to the pm, if he were here, he'd be saying he was looking at the plans as chancellor on a value for money basis. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> there no value for money, >> there is no value for money, right. but point it's right. but the point is, it's meant break model the meant to break the model of the people's people gangs. absolutely. so as, as, as an expert works on this right . expert who works on this right. that's you me at the that's why you called me at the london of economics. london school of economics. i can you, having studied can tell you, having studied this policies, this phenomenon, these policies, for this works. for years, none of this works. why is it that no one else does it? because it doesn't work and it's costly. only it's extremely costly. only australia. tried something similar and actually stopping it and they've been, there have been several instances where international bodies have said to australia the, the conditions under which , people were held

under which, people were held were horrendous, and effectively australia had to stop in october 2021 what instead should be done is meaningfully decrease the backlog of asylum applications that are more than 100,000 of them are currently , we're still them are currently, we're still waiting for them to be, sort of processed , we should give asylum processed, we should give asylum seekers the right to work while they are here, because one of they are here, because one of the reasons why this is very costly is because we don't allow them to work while the process is pending, then they just pay into black economy. into the black economy. >> they anyway. cards >> but they do anyway. id cards here, they do anyway, >> but they don't do it anyway, right? even if you give right? i mean, even if you give them permission to do they them permission to do it, they will and work somewhere will just go and work somewhere else. know, where exactly else. you know, where exactly they exploited by, they will be exploited by, different criminal groups. so effectively, people who effectively, the only people who benefit from from how things currently work. and it would be worse this policy is worse when this policy is implemented, are looking aren't they processing they at offshore processing germany absolutely deal with absolutely germany absolutely deal with absolut that's because of the >> but that's because of the elections, right. >> we all know that the european elections scaring loads

elections are scaring loads of politicians. and that's why, people in, you know, the centre, right, especially governments across the region , and also across the region, and also ursula von der leyen from the european commission, they are looking into this. >> australia worked. >> australia worked. >> did not it did not. let me >> it did not it did not. let me tell you what happened. instead, in following the in the 12 months following the introduction this policy of introduction of this policy of offshore meaning offshore processing, meaning that everyone who arrived to australia be sent to australia would then be sent to the islands to be the other islands to be processed. the numbers processed. actually, the numbers increased and then what happened increased and then what happened in australia that allegedly worked is that there were some what we know are illegal pushbacks, meaning the military took boats and then sent took the boats and then sent them back , which can't happen them back, which can't happen here or it cannot happen. the royal said they will royal navy has said they will not to it because not agree to it because it's against international and humanitarian law. right. so what we focus on the we should do is focus on the backlog and create resettlement programs with safe routes for asylum seekers and as well as, of course , engaging with our of course, engaging with our european partners so that they have an incentive to actually fight these smuggling groups. but course, that will entail,

but of course, that will entail, resettling individuals from the european mainland to britain. >> do you think it's going to even if it passes from the house of commons, the house of lords, it will just be ditched by labour? >> absolutely. no. >> absolutely. no. >> the fact is >> apart from that, the fact is that many of the people, what they will and i can tell you they will do, and i can tell you who benefit this who will benefit from this criminal groups, because what we'll will we'll do is that people will take dangerous routes we'll do is that people will taicome dangerous routes we'll do is that people will taicome into dangerous routes we'll do is that people will taicome into cuk.erous routes we'll do is that people will taicome into cuk. they routes we'll do is that people will taicome into cuk. they willes to come into the uk. they will not asylum and they not apply for asylum and they will in shadow economy, will stay in the shadow economy, benefiting . so benefiting criminal groups. so that's who this policy is benefiting. criminal groups are the cost of more than half a billion for 300 people. >> well, on note, doctor >> well, on that note, doctor omar hamoud gallego from the lse, thank you for joining omar hamoud gallego from the lse, thank you forjoining us in lse, thank you for joining us in studio tonight. >> and i'm sure the mps will not listen because they'll listen to that because they'll be voting be put off from voting all together will be together after a break, will be diving the to replace diving into the plot to replace rishi with a sword rishi sunak with a sword wielding of the wielding lord president of the privy council, penny mordaunt. but week, this week's but this week, will this week's evening's developments be enough to rally the troops around the pm? wait and .

see. welcome back. i'm christopher hope gb news, political editor. and this is state of the nation. live on gb news. now, we've been discussing tonight's rwanda votes, and here are some of your views. paul says, dear chris, he's very polite. paul yvette cooper says she's going to tackle the gangs running the boats across to the uk . exactly boats across to the uk. exactly how is she going to do that? she can't set foot in france. what powers does she think she has? is all hot air. nothing will be done. is all hot air. nothing will be done . and alan says, chris, how done. and alan says, chris, how is this a deterrent when only 300 refugees are going to be accepted by rwanda? well, we'll we'll hear the answer to that soon, i imagine, both the government and the rwandan government. but tonight's events might signal a turning point on the deportation policy of

the rwanda deportation policy of the rwanda deportation policy of the government is expected to win remainder of votes win the remainder of its votes against the lords amendments, which enough to which might just be enough to see the plan come to fruition after nearly two years of being put on hold. and that's three prime ministers ago, by the way. but the problems , the problems but the problems, the problems of the current prime minister, rishi there . rishi sunak, don't end there. over the weekend reported over the weekend is reported that plot was that a right wing plot was brewing to oust and brewing to oust mr sunak and replace with penny mordaunt . replace him with penny mordaunt. and whilst i was sceptical about this story, i do have it from two sources today mps that there are as many as 40. no confidence letters sent graham brady , letters sent to graham brady, the chairman of 1922 committee of backbench mps who decide of backbench tory mps who decide on who becomes the next tory leader . but on who becomes the next tory leader. but who on who becomes the next tory leader . but who better to on who becomes the next tory leader. but who better to ask than usual host of this program, sir jacob than usual host of this program, sirjacob rees—mogg, than usual host of this program, sir jacob rees—mogg, who than usual host of this program, sirjacob rees—mogg, who had this to say earlier ? well, i'm this to say earlier? well, i'm sorry not to be with you this evening personally in person, and i am grateful to sir christopher hope for stepping in to the breach. >> but i'm literally voting now in the rwanda divisions to send back to the house of lords, to

the unelected chamber its objections to a scheme that will help us secure our borders and make sure that people have no incentive to come here illegally because they won't be able to stay. but what i wanted to talk about most of all was the leadership of the conservative party, because there have been rumours, story speculation abounding in our newspapers over the last 48 hours about a challenge to rishi sunak, whether the leader of the house of commons, penny mordaunt , is of commons, penny mordaunt, is about to be shoehorned in as a unity candidate . well, i think unity candidate. well, i think this is crazy stuff. it's madness . this is crazy stuff. it's madness. it's the this is crazy stuff. it's madness . it's the conservative madness. it's the conservative party has already changed. leader too many times since the last election. the mandate that we have for a prime minister gets thinner and thinner every time we change it. and we need as conservatives to calm down and support the prime minister. why do i say that? well, i think there are some positive signs that the economy is beginning to

pick up, that the recession didn't seem to last very long. the bank of england were halfway competent. it would be beginning to cut interest rates , and that to cut interest rates, and that would be helping people who have mortgages. economy would be mortgages. the economy would be beginning to grow. we are getting with some getting ahead with some conservative policies, and the rwanda one is an example of that. but we also have to show to voters that we are a serious party of government and changing our leader in the way people seem to change their socks cannot be wise , it cannot be cannot be wise, it cannot be sensible. it cannot imbue the nafion sensible. it cannot imbue the nation with that level of confidence that it needs to have. and so , although i've been have. and so, although i've been a critic of rishi sunak over the years, i haven't always larded him with praise. i think now , him with praise. i think now, now is the time for the party to be loyal to back its leader, to recognise an election is close at hand and we need to concentrate on that. and the manifesto for the british people that we will deliver in the next few months , rather than the few months, rather than the vanity, the vainglory, the

selfish obsession of some politicians who think it's about them . and it's not. it's about them. and it's not. it's about them. and it's not. it's about the country and it's about the king's government being carried on. as the duke of wellington always used to say, i won't be here, but i'm always interested in views . in your views. mailmogg@gbnews.com let me know what think and i'll read what you think and i'll read some of them out when i'm back tomorrow . tomorrow. >> well, check if that mentions the duke of wellington. i think we want to worry right now. and what's on in, in politics. what's going on in, in politics. i think that's somewhat underestimates the tension i've experienced today, to talking two mps who are normally quite calm about the future of their party, but not today and not this week. now i'm joined now for reaction to what jacob said by former armed forces minister to gordon brown, bill rammell and charlie rowley , former and charlie rowley, former special adviser to theresa may and gove, and charles, and michael gove, and charles, to start with you and the word michael gove. there is in our script for this programme. is he behind is he trying to behind all this? is he trying to push kemi banknock even push kemi banknock or or even penny number 10?

penny mordaunt into number 10? i i don't think so. >> of course, i don't think there's , much in the stories there's, much in the stories over the weekend because as jacob was saying , if you chop jacob was saying, if you chop and change your leader again, the , forget about the the country, forget about the westminster bubble and forget about everybody follows about everybody who follows politics day basis. politics on a day to day basis. i think country would just i think the country would just be arms at the prospect be up in arms at the prospect that conservative that the conservative party has ditched to ditched yet another leader to install somebody else, but, you know, sticking with rishi sunak, sticking with a guy who seems to be doing a fantastic job in delivering on what he says he's going to do, and that's testament to votes that are testament to the votes that are taking getting taking place tonight, getting rwanda something rwanda up and running something he do. he's he said he's going to do. he's got able deliver. and got to be able to deliver. and once done that will once he's done that, that will change. think public opinion change. i think public opinion in the tory party any in giving the tory party any hope winning next election. >> bill rammell you heard charlie doing charlie say he's doing a fantastic job. rishi sunak why is he still 23 points behind in the polls? >> 5 the polls? >> a dreadful prime >> because he's a dreadful prime minister this is a wretched minister and this is a wretched government. that's government. i don't think that's in dispute week by week. his judgement really poor. but if judgement is really poor. but if conservative mps think they can

change their leader to rescue their skins, i think they are delusional. there would be, you know, i think you reach a tipping point and i think there would be such a degree of outrage from the public that we're having a fourth prime minister in a five year parliament. it's unacceptable. we need a general election. >> well , we need a general election. >> well, charlie we need a general election. >> well , charlie rowley, if >> well, charlie rowley, if penny mordaunt is the answer, is it wrong question the party it the wrong question the party is asking? >> well, it just, you >> well, i think it just, you know, shows that whether you mentioned penny and kemi and there'll be, you know, plenty of others, james cleverly in that mix, who robert robert jenrick megxit, just megxit, you know, that just shows that there is so much talent within the conservative party and why that's so funny. so it is, you know, any one of these people could go on to be leader at some point when there's a vacancy, but there isn't and won't be for isn't and there won't be for some obviously some time because obviously rishi is doing what he says he's going to do. and we've got inflation figures, i think, coming this week. coming out later on this week. if to come down, if they continue to come down, that's obviously the that's obviously one of the interest rates, two interest or one minister's one of the prime minister's

benefit for this. >> national insurance. >> they cut national insurance. nothing a poll. nothing happens in a poll. i mean, cutting 4% off mean, you know, cutting 4% off national in three national insurance in three months extraordinary , but months is extraordinary, but there's no benefit in the polls. >> it's i think because it's >> and it's i think because it's been difficult time been a difficult time politically of this politically and part of this internal divisions that internal party divisions that you of hear, you constantly sort of hear, hear read about over hear about and read about over the doesn't help hear about and read about over the party's doesn't help hear about and read about over the party's cause. doesn't help hear about and read about over the party's cause. but�*sn't help hear about and read about over the party's cause. but in't help hear about and read about over the party's cause. but i thinklp hear about and read about over the pit y's cause. but i thinklp hear about and read about over the pit does|use. but i thinklp hear about and read about over the pit does comeiut i thinklp hear about and read about over the pit does come to i thinklp hear about and read about over the pit does come to i th next» when it does come to the next general election, the polls will, they'll narrow will, you know, they'll narrow anyway. obviously is anyway. how much obviously is we'll have to wait see. but we'll have to wait and see. but a of will narrow a lot of that will narrow because of the work in which and the that rishi will be the record that rishi will be able forward. as someone able to put forward. as someone who only going to one of who is only going to be one of two that going two people that are going to become prime minister >> your hands >> you're rubbing your hands in laboun rammell? >> well, want general >> well, we want a general election, but what the election, but look, what the turmoil the turmoil demonstrates is the extraordinary weakness turmoil demonstrates is the extraordinaryweakness rishi extraordinary weakness of rishi sunaks this sunaks position. you know, this story weekend, penny story. at the weekend, penny mordaunt killed it by mordaunt could have killed it by going on the record and saying i'm nothing to do i'm having nothing to do with this. hasn't done this. she hasn't done that. she's friends of who she's got friends of hers who are briefing the media collective. cabinet responsibility is virtually broken mean , grant broken down. i mean, grant shapps was talking about 3% of gdp being spent on defence the

week after the budget. the prime minister's got no authority. and i think the biggest example this afternoon, unbelievably, number 10 were briefing that penny mordaunt shouldn't be leader of the tory party because she's going to lose her seat at the general election. she's got a 16,000 majority. >> now we're break into >> now we're going to break into that news from the that with the news from the house commons chamber, where that with the news from the hous have zommons chamber, where that with the news from the hous have zomm

to lockdown needed, you know, to a lockdown needed, you know, to a lockdown needed, you know, to do so because of the interventions that needed to take . but when have in take place. but when you have in downing then people downing street, then people breaking you breaking those rules, when you are it is a total are setting them, it is a total break of trust the public. >> enough to replace the prime minister. >> i think it's a good enough reason and that's why 15 ministers resigned . ministers obviously resigned. and, but i think, you know, of course, you know , time is a course, you know, time is a wonderful thing and time's a healer. and, you know, we can look back with hindsight and you know, got a lot know, boris has still got a lot to brilliant to give. he's a brilliant communicator. a brilliant communicator. he's a brilliant campaigner. he's effective on the why i would the doorstep. that's why i would very like to back very much like to see him back on campaign. and i think the on the campaign. and i think the prime obviously prime minister obviously welcomed sure we'll welcomed him. but i'm sure we'll see, theresa may the campaign see, theresa may on the campaign trail. david cameron trail. we'll see david cameron out well. you know, all out there as well. you know, all five prime ministers that we've had six years had over the last, six years will out there and will be going out there and delivering that delivering the message that you've got get behind rishi, you've got to get behind rishi, you've got to get behind rishi, you've vote conservative you've got to vote conservative again things again for all of the things that they've going they've said that they're going to this country to do and taking this country forward . forward to you. >> rammell, do you fear >> bill rammell, who do you fear the rishi sunak the most? rishi sunak called penny mordaunt as the tory

leader. penny mordaunt as the tory leadedon't fear any of them. >> i don't fear any of them. come one do you worry about >> which one do you worry about more no, no i don't. more then? no, no, no i don't. >> the concern of record in >> it's the concern of record in government that is the problem. 14 back to boris 14 years you go back to boris johnson. know was johnson. you know he was convicted by a tory dominated committee repeatedly lying to committee of repeatedly lying to the house of commons. we had the chaos of liz truss's regime. and, you know, we've now got, you know , immigration, letting you know, immigration, letting rip three times as high as it was when labour left office that actually means gdp per head, which is the best indicator , is which is the best indicator, is the worst since 1955. that's what the tories have presided oven what the tories have presided over. and whoever they put up, i think they're heading for the exit. >> okay. well, listen, thank you, charlie, and thank you, bill, for coming and having a debate about the future of the pm, which could be moved forward this week. i wonder, after the break, the labour party is facing fresh criticism for its plans to impose vat on private school fees , as new reports school fees, as new reports suggest it will force a quarter of pupils into the state sector

i >> welcome back. i'm still christopher hope gb news, political editor. >> and this is state of the nafion >> and this is state of the nation . live on gb news. i'm nation. live on gb news. i'm joined now by the usual host of this programme. tory mp for nonh this programme. tory mp for north east somerset, the right honourable sirjacob rees—mogg honourable sir jacob rees—mogg mp. jacob, why aren't you doing yourjob? mp. jacob, why aren't you doing your job? why am mp. jacob, why aren't you doing yourjob? why am i doing it for you? >> because i'm voting in parliament, which is a very important job. and i do gb news when i'm available and free from parliamentary commitments. obviously, parliament has to come first. that's in the deal with the voters of north east somerset. >> yes. and are you anticipating that all ten of these, amendments from the house of lords will be voted down tonight ? >> 7- >> yes. ?_ >> yes. very 7 >> yes. very good majorities so

far . strong turnout from the far. strong turnout from the government benches, very little by way of rebellion. a really firm message back to their lordships that the government, the democratic arm of our constitution, expects to get this business through. and i'm very pleased we're sending back all house of lords all the house of lords amendments . amendments. >> you're mingling in the house of commons lobbies tonight. that's where the real action takes place. you and i know that as mps discuss the future, everything, including your leader is there. the pm in nerve. you've rubbed shoulders with him. is he in good spirits ? with him. is he in good spirits? >> the pm is in there. i haven't spoken to him personally, but there's a lot of support for him. actually, it's really interesting talking to people in the members lobby. and as you're round and about this sort of coup that's been talked up over the weekend seems to be melting away. that who it's been briefed by, nobody quite knows. even penny mordaunt says it's nothing to do with her. so it's just one

of those things you get like a little firecracker going off that then disappears into the night. >> isn't it possible, though , >> isn't it possible, though, that some mps are campaigning on local elections now and hearing what the people out there outside of your your little bubble, think about the prime minister and they're reacting to that. >> well, i think you phrase it unfairly that you can see from the opinion polls that people aren't delighted with the conservative party at large. but this isn't personal to the prime minister particularly. it is. we've been in office for a long time. we need to show that we're doing things like the rwanda plan rebuild and trust plan to rebuild faith and trust with and that's why with voters, and that's why tonight's very important. but i don't think you should personalise to the prime personalise it to the prime minister. i think it's hard minister. i think it's very hard to that it were to believe that if it were suddenly become leader suddenly to become the leader of the that would the house, that this would transform fortunes . transform our fortunes. >> well, view amongst labour >> well, the view amongst labour mps and frontbenchers i speak to is they fear penny mordaunt the most. i mean, isn't isn't the problem. it goes back to the original sin. jacob rees—mogg that your party dumped boris

johnson when he had a mandate from his mps and his members and the electorate to be prime minister >> well, you know, i think that i campaigned very firmly to keep bofis i campaigned very firmly to keep boris johnson. i thought it was a mistake to get rid of him . but a mistake to get rid of him. but the conservative party is the party of government. we've got a leader. ridiculous in an leader. it's ridiculous in an election be talking election year to be talking about changing leader again. we need to back him, present to need to back him, present him to the electorate everything the electorate and do everything we get rishi sunak we can to get rishi sunak re—elected. that's in the interests country, interests of the country, because alternative is sir because the alternative is sir keir starmer, and i can't think that would be good for us. and just finally, sir, before you go back vote, should each back to vote, what should each do to change? >> he's still 20 points plus behind in the polls. it looks like labour's lead is stuck like wet cement. what you wet cement. what would you be advising were you in advising him now? were you in his in downing street ? his study in downing street? >> i don't think wet cement is particularly stuck as it happens. i think the thing about wet cement is that it can be moved about. you see it coming out of those great machines that go as they it out.

go around as they churn it out. so i think you're right about wet can be moved. it wet cement. it can be moved. it can be changed. need to do can be changed. we need to do rwanda. to that we rwanda. we need to show that we can govern we need can govern competently. we need to we deal with to ensure that we deal with legal and illegal migration firmly, push on firmly, and we need to push on with good economic management. the bank of england should cut interest , and then we will interest rates, and then we will have offering for the have a good offering for the electorate come the general election. i must go and you can hear the bells in hear the bells probably in the background. the background. ask not for whom the bell tolls . what it tolls for thee. >> sajid rees—mogg, thank you for joining us tonight on your program, a state of the nation . program, a state of the nation. thank you. thank you for standing in. >> you do it too. well, it worries me. >> thank you. know, you're the master. i'm the. i'm the apprentice back to the studio with a with another rees—mogg . with a with another rees—mogg. >> zelenskyy martin bashir rees—mogg. jacob sister and of course amy nicole turner, the author and broadcaster. welcome to both excellent to you both to this excellent programme. what do you think. has a chance here? has he got a chance here? richard rishi sunak, can you survive the week? >> i personally think he's got

to that. i do agree with what jacob was just saying, that you can't change your leader every two minutes and expect to be taken seriously. you have to taken seriously. you have to take the country seriously. you have to take the electors seriously. but you have to give them an offer they can vote for. and has got to take that opportunity. >> amy, what's your take on on the future the pm? the future of the pm? >> well, i'm happy that annunziata that we should >> well, i'm happy that annlthe|ta that we should >> well, i'm happy that annlthe countrythat we should >> well, i'm happy that annlthe country seriously hould take the country seriously because think what country because i think what the country is now is a is crying out for now is a general come on. the general election. come on. the tories are as tories currently are as unpopular as when truss was in government. the national insurance cut seemingly was supposed to be popular. actually lost them two more points, just give us our choice. give it up, give us our choice. give it up, give it up. >> i think a huge opportunity was missed by jeremy hunt that if he'd had really bold budget if he'd had a really bold budget that actually went to people's pockets them feel that pockets and made them feel that things were on the heading in the right direction, which the economy is, but people are not feeling it yet. then he could have started to have an impact .

have started to have an impact. instead, he twiddled on the edges and taxed fags and made very little difference to anyone's balance sheet at the end of the week. >> now, one of the big issues of this week has been labour's attempts to vat on private attempts to put vat on private school fees . it could raise as school fees. it could raise as much as £1.7 billion. the treasury coffers . but most treasury coffers. but most importantly, it's sir keir starmer unveiled starmer has already unveiled seven policies that seven different policies that could for by this could be paid for by this tax hike. what think about hike. what do you think about this idea? >> well, it's already >> well, i mean, it's already been proven their been proven that their maths doesn't up. i'm doesn't begin to add up. i'm rather concerned that we may be about to get a government that doesn't seem to know what a supply and demand curve is, let alone laffer one. i that alone a laffer one. i that the adam institute has looked adam smith institute has looked into these figures rather more carefully. it's looked at the greek example where they followed a similar policy and the effect it had there. and instead of it raising 1.7 billion, it will lose the tax man 1.3 billion. now being out by 3 billion is not small change. >> do you know something that would certainly increase growth?

economic growth would be social mobility. what is hindering social mobility in my opinion, would be keeping these elite schools. can you? i think a lot of people would be surprised that the schools aren't already paying that the schools aren't already paying vat. the amount of things that we pay vat on yet, private schools are exempt that. schools are exempt from that. i think that's the real story here. >> i think we should have much wider vat exemptions. one thing that but of course we should have better schools. we should return very, very return to the very, very successful model. used to successful model. we used to have schools. have the grammar schools. absolutely we can. that just needs change in needs a small change in legislation on that. >> adam smith, research though, which i actually thought was really interesting. there was something that maxwell marlowe pointed which that pointed out, which was that it will that the independent will be the that the independent sector is massively diverse. you've your eton's at the you've got your eton's at the top and then you've got your smaller independent schools, which could be trouble from which could be in trouble from that, because which, that, of course, because which, which schools in that which of the schools in that sector. hang let's just sector. and hang on, let's just say because i think the say that because i think the viewers know 7% kids viewers need to know 7% of kids that go these schools in the that go to these schools in the

first lower first place. but it's the lower it's a independent sector, it's a small independent sector, schools on the schools that depend on the tuition of which tuition fees, a lot of which your westminster's. don't your westminster's. they don't depend fees. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, fees. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, a fees. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, a lot fees. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, a lot of fees. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, a lot of which. they'll your westminster's. they don't de|fine, a lot of which are ay'll be fine, a lot of which are special needs. >> specialist schools as well has to be remembered and it is. you are talking about over half a million children. i think it's a million children. i think it's a instrument, i agree, a blunt instrument, i agree, which highlighted which has been highlighted by this , but it's this, but i think it's a necessary instrument because the status quo is 70% of judges. >> they went private school, >> they went to private school, 30% of mps, they went to school. >> or jealousy fairness. >> well. and nishihata and >> well, well. and nishihata and amy nicholson, thank you for joining us both tonight. thank you to my panel coming up, you'll be finding out the latest on happening with on what's happening with the royal their royal family and their mysteriously photographs . mysteriously edited photographs. >> on patrick christys tonight, nine till 11 pm, another pr disaster for the princess of wales. why is the palace media team failing to protect our future queen? we expose a culture of cover ups on the nhs,

have they lied about your relatives death? mps are voting on the rwanda bill tonight after it was savaged by the lords. but has the rwandan government now scuppered the scheme? and i speak to the woman who was banned from her own art exhibition and reported to the police for saying kids shouldn't get puberty blockers . it's get puberty blockers. it's patrick christys tonight, nine till

>> welcome. welcome back. >> welcome. welcome back. >> i remain christopher hope. the gb news political editor. and this is state of the nation. live on gb news. we've been discussing the labour party's vat on private school fees, as well as the rwanda bill and here are some of your views on schools. patricia writes. perhaps amy should consider what will happen to the children that have transferred to state schools that will cost more than the vat paid in in will bring in

madness . politics of envy. so madness. politics of envy. so childish. pat. is pat right. >> pat you know. yeah. go on. so i think it costs £6,000 a year to state educate one child. and the suggestions that are being put forward are predominantly by more right wing think tanks, who of course want to keep private education. but actually there is very evidence say that very little evidence to say that any of these children would leave. and actually the leave. and actually in the independent children are independent sector, children are being by being constantly turfed out by the anyway . they are 7.5 the schools anyway. they are 7.5 billion. >> we've been passed this one already. but thank you. >> thank you for i hope you hear what amy had to say. and on on an unrelated note, paul said evening. quick question. christopher, why are you nicknamed chopper ? oh, see, nicknamed chopper? oh, see, everybody asks, do my dad dennis's heading and you can't find the answer on google, right? dennis, where are you? dennis i'm called chopper because i used to work for the scotsman . my email scotsman newspaper. my email was c at scotsman.com. was c hope at scotsman.com. i was called chop and then chopper. it's for no other reason. i'm so sorry . moving on. last week, sorry. moving on. last week, a number of leading photo

agencies, including the associated press, issued a kill nofice associated press, issued a kill notice about a photograph released by buckingham palace of the princess of wales and her three children, saying it had been doctored, prompting all sorts of conspiracy theories about the whereabouts of the princess. however, more concerns have risen today about another suggestion of another photoshopped image issued by the royal family in this case, one of our dearly, much missed late queen with her great grandchildren. published in april last year to commemorate what would have been her 97th birthday, supposedly taken by the princess. and look again at that photograph that is on my most favourite photographs of our late queen. so while we'd expect more conspiracy theories to follow this latest development, joined in development, i'm joined now in the gb news studio by the same by our same panel. thank you both for staying remaining with us. and by duncan larcombe, former royal editor of the sun. duncan duncan, thank you for joining us. thanks forjoining

us tonight on state of the nation. are you surprised about this row about photoshopping? and is it really a big deal because most people do this with family snaps . family snaps. >> yeah i think there's a i think there'll be a lot of people that just think, so what. and i can understand that reaction. but, but these it pictures issued by the palace are they're, they're moments in history. they're very important . history. they're very important. and if they've been played with and doctored in any way , that and doctored in any way, that does raise some quite serious questions about the honesty and transparency of the palace machine , if you like. machine, if you like. >> is the problem , duncan? that >> is the problem, duncan? that maybe the palace machine doesn't really think like journalists do, particularly with al threatening a lot of professions at the moment. people are hyper sensitive about putting out photographs that may have been tinkered with. and that's why you those three agencies you saw those three agencies object night ? object last sunday night? >> yes. i mean, i think you're right. i think there's been a

big concern for quite some time with kate , who's a very, very with kate, who's a very, very keen amateur photographer , keen amateur photographer, taking it into her own hands to take pictures, to release them to the press for us to lap up and fawn over when they're not actually taken by a professional photographer who's a journalist, a photojournalist and who's actually not not going to change anything for fear of, my goodness, the repercussions. if you did as a journalist, you'd be in trouble . be in trouble. >> can i can i ask you i wonder what started this. i know that it started with kate doing herself and as a professional journalist myself, i thought it was she to was because she wanted to control copyright . was because she wanted to control copyright. how was because she wanted to control copyright . how those control a copyright. how those photographs were used in future use. and by doing it yourself as a photographer, you can control where those photographs are used. >> yes, i think that's right. i think and kate's been doing this for a number of years , pretty

for a number of years, pretty much since she started to have children. i think she would release the birthday snaps. and in a way take control over her own sort of photographic destiny. but she's been caught out. and i think the reaction that we saw last week is enough to, i'm sure, convince her that photoshopping pictures is really something that she's not going to be able to do again , just to to be able to do again, just to just finally, do you feel sorry for duncan , i think she's for duncan, i think she's subject to a lot of online trolling and rumours, but i think last week was a real big gaffe. probably, actually, probably her most serious gaffe. she's not really she she's kate middleton. she doesn't do anything wrong. and i think this time she really did. >> that's right. well listen, duncan larcombe x from the from the sun. thank you forjoining the sun. thank you for joining us tonight on state of the

nation. still with me in the studio here in westminster is my panel party panel former brexit party mep and annunziata and journalist annunziata rees—mogg. the author and rees—mogg. and the author and broadcaster amy nicole turner. and you first, amy, is it a big deal or not? well, you know, the second photograph has emerged. >> it feels like everybody thinks this is a very big deal. and, know, i thought and, you know, i thought it would be something like what prince up to that prince andrew got up to that would the royals. would bring down the royals. finally would ever finally but who would have ever guessed but guessed it'd be photoshop? but i really like this is just really feel like this is just have you seen those apps where they shot, right. they say, best shot, right. so you a of photos. how you have a series of photos. how difficult to get three difficult is it to get three kids to all look that perfect ? kids to all look that perfect? yes. so if you take a series of pictures, the royal children, amy, are perfect . amy, perhaps they are perfect. >> well. amy, perhaps they are perfect. >> and.. amy, perhaps they are perfect. >> and then and you mash it >> and then and then you mash it together. that's together. i think that's all that has that this is. but the world has gone and conspiracy gone mad. and the conspiracy theories annunciate. theories have been annunciate. >> i ask you, can your >> i could ask you, can your brother photoshop anything? >> i could ask you, can your broprobablyoshop anything? >> i could ask you, can your broprobably aboutanything? >> i could ask you, can your broprobably about asything? >> i could ask you, can your broprobably about as well]? >> probably about as well as i can. no, of us have a can. no, neither of us have a clue. but i think we should go back the the eighth back to the henry the eighth day, portrait of anne day, where the portrait of anne of was so flattering that of cleves was so flattering that he and was appalled at

he saw her and was appalled at her ugliness, but so perhaps the royals should remove alloy, hard working portrait painters to make sure they look as they want to look. >> perhaps we should issue just an annual portrait paintings and forget this. still photographs. i is , you see, i feel i mean, is, you see, i feel really sad about that queen picture because i that was picture because i think that was a happy photograph a wonderful, happy photograph of the but think, you know, you >> but i think, you know, if you take explanation it still take my explanation and it still can it's just the kind of can be, it's just the kind of combination of all pictures combination of all the pictures put can you put together. but can you imagine? i'm quite surprised that people haven't up and that people haven't come up and said, photoshopped said, meghan markle photoshopped it, because that feels that's not own , her own. not her own, her own. >> apparently being there, it would seem every celeb does and i just can't get it up. i just hope that the princess of wales makes a swift recovery and can come back to us and explains what with her what happened with with her illness way is appropriate. >> yeah. listen we're out of time. from up time. that's all from me. up next old pal patrick next is my old pal patrick christys. what's on the bill of fare this evening, we fare this evening, patrick, we all know why you're all know that's not why you're called chopper. all know that's not why you're caliokay,opper. all know that's not why you're caliokay, soyer. all know that's not why you're caliokay, so i've got i've got >> okay, so i've got i've got loads on tonight and nhs culture

of cover up and deceit. the rwanda vote. what remains of it? live of course. palace pr gurus throwing kate under the bus and exclusive with the artist that was banned from her own exhibition because she didn't think children should have puberty blockers and thatcher is absolutely way anything absolutely in no way anything like hitler or bin laden, a phrase i never thought i would have to say , studied patrick. have to say, studied patrick. >> well, that's all. that's all from me, from plenty for jacob rees—mogg. he'll be back, hopefully tomorrow. thank you to my brilliant panel. thank you both. you've been terrific. you've held my hand throughout, i'm and this i'm christopher hope, and this has of the nation has been state of the nation coming up after is the coming up after me is the weather. i hope it's good. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello and welcome to the latest gb news forecast from the met office. rain spreads east dunng met office. rain spreads east during the next 24 hours.

breezy. along with that rain , breezy. along with that rain, but it does turn drier and brighter later on tuesday . brighter later on tuesday. weather fronts responsible attached to this area of low pressure anchored off the west of scotland overnight. and those weather fronts will bring outbreaks of persistent rain to the north and the west initially before transferring east. the rain does turn more showery. it tends to fragment through the night, but still some of those showers will be quite heavy, particularly the north and particularly in the north and the . not much rain reaching the west. not much rain reaching the west. not much rain reaching the south—east at all. in fact, some spells remain here, some clear spells remain here, but the and the but with the cloud and the increased breeze . gales for the increased breeze. gales for the far north—west, well, it is going to be mild start to going to be a mild start to tuesday, a cloudy and a tuesday, albeit a cloudy and a showery run . quite, quite a lot showery run. quite, quite a lot of showers i think around during tuesday morning, breaking up into the afternoon to hit and miss downpours, most likely northern and central england. seeing those downpours with some brightness either way and actually feeling warm in any sunny spells 17 or 18 celsius, but more rain is on the way,

spreading up from the southwest on tuesday night and into wednesday, reaching the grampians and persisting through much of the day across eastern and northern england, wales and the midlands before eventually turning back to showers . further turning back to showers. further outbreaks of rain to come on thursday, particularly towards the northwest where it will be windy and cool and then showers to come on friday. >> looks like things are heating up boxt boilers spotty hours of weather on

gb news. >> it's 11:00 gb news. >> it's11:00 and gb news. >> it's 11:00 and the news from gb news is that mps in the house of commons have tonight rejected all ten amendments to the government's flagship rwanda bill, suggested by the house of lords. all ten amendments were voted down tonight, one of which was designed to ensure the bill complies. the domestic and international law. the controversial legislation aims to deter illegal migrants from coming to the uk on small boats by deporting them to rwanda, downing street says the initial cohort of people is now being contacted , with the prime contacted, with the prime minister still determined to see the first plane departing later this spring. earlier on today , this spring. earlier on today, the shadow home secretary, yvette cooper, spoke to us at gb news. she said labour would get a issue. we need to a grip on the issue. we need to strengthen our border security and fix the chaos in the asylum system because under the

conservatives we've really seen criminal gangs take hold along the channel and then this huge soaring backlog with asylum hotel use that is costing the taxpayer billions. >> so instead of all the gimmicks that we've had from rishi sunak and the conservatives, our plan is to get a grip that starts with the new cross border police to go after the criminal gangs to smash the gang networks and prevent boats arriving on the french coast in the first place. >> yvette cooper, now tata steel, will begin shutting down operations at its site in port talbot from wednesday. that's due to what they're calling stability concerns, the steel group said it had been forced to make the closures earlier than previously planned because the equipment can no longer run safely. coke ovens are used to turn coal into coke, a key raw material used in the process of making steel . the former making steel. the former environment minister zac goldsmith , has been banned from goldsmith, has been banned from driving for a year. it's after

he was caught