gb news. >> good evening sir keir starmer decides to make pmqs. about me i wasn't quite sure why. he then decided to make a series of accusations. i will give you my answer to his charges this evening. live here in just a few minutes. is it worth £31 million for security? extra security for members of parliament or have they brought this all upon themselves ? the de—banking row themselves? the de—banking row is one i sense that will never go away until we get real ledge and cultural change as we learn that 140,000 small businesses have been disgracefully de—banking in the course of the last year, and a packet of fags could go up to £16 in the budget next week. doesn't this just drive the black market and

actually make illegal drugs become rather attractive ? all of become rather attractive? all of that in a moment. but first, let's get the news with polly middlehurst . middlehurst. >> nigel, thank you and good evening to you. well, we start this evening with the sad news that the bodies of at least three suspected migrants have been pulled from the english channel afternoon, major channel this afternoon, a major search and rescue operation was launched following incident, search and rescue operation was lau|uked following incident, search and rescue operation was lau|uk and llowing incident, search and rescue operation was lau|uk and french| incident, search and rescue operation was lau|uk and french authoritiesnt, the uk and french authorities are now working together on that . it. it's believed people smuggling pushed a number smuggling gangs pushed a number of boats into water of boats into the water throughout despite the throughout the day, despite the bad weather, people smuggling gangs pushing multiple gangs were seen pushing multiple small boats and 300 people were taken to border force processing centres at dover harbour . centres at dover harbour. farmers are warning that their industry will be at risk if the welsh government goes ahead with proposed changes to farming subsidies outside the welsh parliament. they protested against the plans, which require

20% of agriculture land to be set aside for trees and wildlife habitat . s the labour government habitat. s the labour government insists the changes are necessary to fight climate change, but conceded the plan could still be adjusted at the end of a consultation. but unions are warning there'll be thousands of job losses and the leader of the welsh conservatives, andrew davies, told gb news it will be disastrous for the country. well, let's not forget people need food to survive and live on their everyday so their everyday existence, so we're not talking about an industry that isn't industry here that isn't required to feed the nation . required to feed the nation. >> we don't have farmers, >> and if we don't have farmers, we food. by the we don't have food. and by the government's figures, if government's own figures, if this ahead and this scheme goes ahead and changed, 5500 farmers will lose their livelihoods . 125,000 their livelihoods. 125,000 cattle will be lost in wales, 800,000 sheep and £200 million worth of economic activity will be lost. so it will be a devastating income impact on rural communities. the length and breadth of wales mps facing threats to their safety will get extra security as part of a new £31 million government package . £31 million government package. >> concerns are growing about mps being targeted by protesters

since the outbreak of the israel—hamas war. the home office says the money will be used to increase private sector security provision and all elected representatives will have a dedicated, named police contact to liaise with and the high court in belfast has today ruled the uk government's controversial legacy act breaches human rights laws . the breaches human rights laws. the case was brought by the relatives of northern ireland's troubles victims . the act troubles victims. the act includes a conditional amnesty for people suspected of committing offences in delivering the ruling, the judge said there's no evidence immunity will in any way contribute to reconciliation in the country . northern ireland the country. northern ireland secretary chris heaton—harris said earlier the government still intends to implement the act. that's the news for the very latest stories. do sign up to gb news alerts or scan the qr code on your screen right now, or go to gb news .com/ alerts .

or go to gb news .com/ alerts. i'd just landed on the overnight flight from miami and pmqs started at midday , and i assume started at midday, and i assume that what keir starmer would do is go on the lee anderson story . is go on the lee anderson story. >> why? because that splits the party opposite some members of parliament for the conservatives think he went way too far. others think his suspension is ridiculous and electorally bad news. but no , he didn't do that. news. but no, he didn't do that. he wanted for some reason to talk about me . have a look. talk about me. have a look. >> he also claimed, mr speaker, that nigel farage is the man to restore the tory party. can the prime minister confirm whether he, too would welcome mr farage back into the tory fold ? mr back into the tory fold? mr >> mr speaker , in our party we >> mr speaker, in our party we have a proud tradition of diversity and accepting everyone from every background and it is a proud record that puts labour to shame. mr speaker. so so this

, this diverse tory party just welcomed nigel farage, the prime minister. >> two months, two months, two, two months ago, the prime minister said the tory party is a broad church. i welcome lots of people who want to subscribe to our ideals and our values. this is the same nigel farage who said he agreed with the bafic who said he agreed with the basic premise of enoch powell's rivers of blood speech and bemoaned the influence of the jewish lobby. so is the prime minister simply too scared to stand up to the gaggle of tory mps who moonlight as gb presenters ? or does he genuinely presenters? or does he genuinely think nigel farage says the ideals and values of the tory party >> oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, i think somebody might be slightly worried . you see, here's the worried. you see, here's the point. here's the point. back in 2015, actually , labour benefited 2015, actually, labour benefited hugely from ukip taking tory

votes , but from thereafter votes, but from thereafter actually we were really, really hurting labour, hurting them in a really, really big way. and of course brexit, 4 million labour voters voted brexit. yes, the very same brexit that you, mr starmer, wanted to overturn and force us into a second referendum. and here's the point when he says i agree with the bafic when he says i agree with the basic premise of enoch powell's rivers of blood speech . well, rivers of blood speech. well, the basic premise was that uncontrolled mass immigration would lead to divided societies in our cities. that became unrecognisable and that that could lead to conflict. well, have a look at what happened with the intimidation of members of parliament last week, and have at the facts, have a look at the facts, sir keir, there are many parts keir, that there are many parts of our major cities in england that now, frankly unrwa that are now, frankly unrwa recognisable and millions of your voters know that. and to say that i bemoan the influence of the jewish lobby ? no, quite of the jewish lobby? no, quite the reverse. i said. the jewish community in north america had been massively successful in law , in business. and yes, they did

campaign for what they wanted , campaign for what they wanted, but they did it within the law. they did it quite successfully. but i was never a subscriber to the madcap conspiracy theory that the jews run the world. but i'll tell you who was. yes, jeremy corbyn, the labour leader that you supported. yes jeremy corbyn. and he went to a conference. sir keir, where there was a palestinian flag on there was a palestinian flag on the chair of every labour mp and you and your own party, some sitting in the house of commons, some prospective parliamentary candidates who basically don't want exist . i tell you want israel to exist. i tell you what, if you want to have a fight with me over anti—semitism any day of the week, now moving on to the really big story of the day, £31 million has been approved to up the security of members of parliament. is this the right thing to do? well, regular viewers to this show will know. i've been predicting for a very, very long time that mps would soon start to understand what my life was like for over a decade. if i had had, if i'd not had chauffeur driven

cars , if i'd not had close cars, if i'd not had close personal protection. i very much doubt i'd be sitting here talking to you. now that's how vile and vicious and frankly, dangerous it was . what i was dangerous it was. what i was leading ukip. dangerous it was. what i was leading ukip . now some of these leading ukip. now some of these chickens are coming home to roost for members of parliament. but but a lot of gb news gb news viewers are saying , hang on, we viewers are saying, hang on, we shouldn't spend any more money on these people because . because on these people because. because after all, it's they , it's they after all, it's they, it's they themselves through supporting irresponsible immigration policies that have led to the danger on our streets. i've got to tell you folks, for once, i'm not with the majority of gb news viewers . i not with the majority of gb news viewers. i think unless we do more to protect our members of parliament, there are going to be more disasters ahead . and be more disasters ahead. and unless we know that becoming an mp, you know, is a relatively. yes, of course you accept brickbats. but as a relatively safe thing to do, we will put off the kind of good, brave

people that we need to stand for parliament to get into parliament, to turn this mess around. so you tell me i'm expecting a flurry of disagreements . do mps need more disagreements. do mps need more protection ? farage at gb news. protection? farage at gb news. com i'm. i'm joined by mark francois mp, conservative for rayleigh and wickford, and we'll get his security expert and consult . mark, you were very consult. mark, you were very close personal friend of a neighbouring member of parliament, sir david amess. yes. who was brutally murdered actually doing his job as a member of parliament, wasn't he? >> yes. he was murdered by an islamist extremist whose name i can't even bring myself to. to pronounce ali harbi ali. well, all right. but but but he said at his trial at the old bailey that he did it because of the way that david had voted in the house of commons. so so i still miss my friend . he was my best miss my friend. he was my best friend in parliament. so, you know, this is close to my heart, nigel. and it's a shame in a

way, that we're even having to have this discussion . but i have this discussion. but i think we are where we are and we somehow need to get this balance right , because there are some right, because there are some people that would like to turn the houses of parliament into a fortress with razor wire and lasers and no visitors. and, you know, we could do that. but if we do that , i would argue the we do that, i would argue the bad guys are winning. that's what they want. they want us to become even more remote than some people would argue. we already are . already are. >> well, 1 or 2 labour voices today it's today suggesting, well, it's very we'll work from home very easy. we'll work from home and online. that would be and vote online. that would be surrender, wouldn't it? >> would be one >> that absolutely would be one of the benefits of voting in person is you can get to ministers because they've to ministers because they've got to go the division lobby go through the division lobby as well. you know, if a well. so you know, if a minister's been hiding away on some issue for some constituency issue for a month when they go in to vote, they haven't got service they haven't got a civil service protection. that's when you grab them. that's how represent them. that's how you represent your constituents. >> 31 million is worth spending, i believe it is.

>> i discussed this earlier >> if i discussed this earlier today with roger hirst, who's the actually, the very proactive, actually, police fire and crime commissioner for essex , he commissioner for essex, he absolutely he's very hard over on on the security , not just of on on the security, not just of mps but of councillors as well . mps but of councillors as well. remember councillors get a lot of abuse and, and thought tom of abuse and, and i thought tom tugendhat , the security tugendhat, the security minister, it up very minister, summed it up very well today so brief quote. he today. so it's a brief quote. he said this over the past few weeks we've disgraced weeks we've seen disgraced attempts to intimidate mps and undermine our democratic processes . that behaviour is a processes. that behaviour is a threat to our democracy and toxic to our society. and if i may say so, i think tom put it really well . really well. >> okay. we'll get is perhaps a more, slightly more dispassionate view than mark could possibly have on an issue like this . no, no, no, like this. no, no, no, absolutely. and it's one of the reasons wanted you here, reasons i wanted you here, because, you've seen because, you know, you've seen it. very, very it. you felt it in a very, very big way. in fact, much of the country was deeply shocked. yeah big way. in fact, much of the countritwas deeply shocked. yeah big way. in fact, much of the countrit was de�*to.y shocked. yeah big way. in fact, much of the countrit was de�*to the locked. yeah big way. in fact, much of the countritwas de�*to the threat yeah big way. in fact, much of the countrit was de�*to the threat now, when it comes to the threat now, the speaker talks about this, about the he talks about far right threats. and we've seen yeah, far right threats and they

exist but they are a fraction. are they not of the real threat. why is no one talking about the real threat. well it's constantly a race, if you like, between the extremists, particularly from the islamic extreme sectors and the far right extremists and the far right extremists and the far right extremists and the far right extremists have increased certainly over few certainly over the last few years , and they're being years, and they're being considered as seriously by m15 as islamic extremists. as the islamic extremists. >> but having said that, nigel, just having said that. yeah, if we look at it right now, we look at obviously a far wider and broader leaning and also a more vocal leaning by those that are particularly in support of palestine an and the anti—semitism that is going on right now. and i take really from both of the things that you've both said so far yourself, nigel, you've been at the sharp end, you've been at the sharp end, you've been at the spearhead of actually having threats against. exactly. and i think a lot of these mps and maybe the gb news as the gb news viewers are a little opposed to mps having security, but i think a lot of the mps will also know

once they feel the hot air and the hot breath of a threat that comes close to them, they recognise how serious the implications are of what they vote necessarily in the houses of parliament. but at the same time, i think mark's absolutely right. you can't overkill this. now, if we looked at the 650 odd mps across the united kingdom to provide close protection for every single one of them, you know how expensive is. you're know how expensive it is. you're looking somewhere . looking probably somewhere. circa 200 to £250 million a year to provide that security. so when we put that in context of the 31 million that has been allocated covid for this run up, particularly to a general election, to have election, and for us to have a free democratic society, we've got to be able to have mps that can out, can canvass, can can go out, can canvass, can talk without fear of intimidation or fear of threats being levelled against them, whether it be by, you know, as with amess or with jo cox with david amess or with jo cox for matter. the for that matter. but the intimidation is happening. >> was a there was >> i mean, there was a there was a fundraising conservative dinner saw dinner in stoke on trent. i saw the other evening. covered the other evening. i covered that there's that on monday evening. there's

been meeting somewhere that on monday evening. there's been north meeting somewhere that on monday evening. there's been north of meeting somewhere that on monday evening. there's been north of england somewhere that on monday evening. there's been north of england todaynhere in the north of england today that's stormed by that's been stormed by pro—palestine demonstrators. well i would put it to you. i understand what you're saying. yeah, that the real cost of doing this fully would be massive. yes. and the threat, the risk of threat , that the risk of threat, that assessment changes over time. but we may need to spend more as the point i'm making. >> you're absolutely right. the group that has actually responsible for the risk assessment, and i have questions about the if you like, the quality of the risk assessments being undertaken is undertaken by a group called ravec, which is and vip executive is royalty and vip executive committee, which is within the home office. now they will look committee, which is within the hothe office. now they will look committee, which is within the hothe securitonw they will look committee, which is within the hothe security aroundy will look committee, which is within the hothe security around the ll look at the security around the members of the royal family. they'll look at of the they'll look at members of the cabinet the opposition and cabinet and the opposition and any that potentially any other mp that potentially has them. now has a threat against them. now any kind of security has to be measured. it has to be balanced and you'll know this yourself from your own experience . nigel, from your own experience. nigel, one the things, even one of the things, even as a provider of close protection to many former heads of state, many foreign families , i always foreign royal families, i always say there's caveat when

say that there's a caveat when you introduce it, because it is a safety blanket that once they've had it, removing it can actually heighten one's anxiety so that if it is for in a period of time, it has to be in for a penod of time, it has to be in for a period of time to deal with the specific threat that the individual is potentially facing . so blanket provide it to . so to blanket provide it to every mp. >> okay . >> okay. >> okay. >> would it be fair? to be fair, i don't think we're calling for that. and what because and i know nigel, we've discussed this before and i know you have strong views because of your own experiences. i know that, but but if we get situation but if we get to a situation where we need a bodyguard, you know, with some spaghetti coming out ear as we're going out of their ear as we're going down, bread island, down, the bread island, sainsbury's on a saturday morning with our trolley like anybody else. then the bad guys are winning. i agree , because are winning. i agree, because i'm not sure i agree with that. i'm not sure i agree with that. i know you don't, but but i just, i know you don't. but but but i just think, you know. so there are. you're walking there you are. you're walking down aisle . you've got down the bread aisle. you've got this heavy with you and there

are people walking by it feeling resentful . and they're thinking, resentful. and they're thinking, if he gets one of those people, why don't i get one of those people? well, i would say, is this no, no, i know with the level of threat against me was very high constant. very high and constant. >> yeah . and was assaulted >> yeah. and i was assaulted repeatedly, even with close protection. yes. still, people got yes. you know, eggs got to me. yes. you know, eggs over the head, banners over the head. yes. of that. you know head. yes. all of that. you know . i think i found . you know, but i think i found a balance with it, which was i didn't away from street didn't run away from street markets. no, i didn't run away from out campaigning. but markets. no, i didn't run away f|did out campaigning. but markets. no, i didn't run away f|did people mpaigning. but markets. no, i didn't run away f|did people thereining. but markets. no, i didn't run away f|did people there who, but markets. no, i didn't run away f|did people there who, ifut i did have people there who, if it turned could it really turned ugly, could help it really turned ugly, could hel but the threat to you was >> but the threat to you was high. mean , it was, be high. i mean, it was, to be fair, nigel, during the brexit debates, got quite lot of debates, i got quite a lot of stick not quite stick as you know, not quite what got, but a fair bit, what you got, but a fair bit, mostly from your party. mostly from your own party. >> . >> there you are. >> there you are. >> it's not boring politics. you know. but you know, remember churchill famously said, parliamentary democracy is the worst possible system of government apart from all the others. so so what we somehow have to do and here i agree with

bill. we've somehow got to get this balance right so that on the one hand, members of parliament and their families, their ones, don't live in their loved ones, don't live in fear of what happens if they vote one way or another. but on the other hand, we don't become so protected unless it's really merited that the public resent it. >> i mean, it.- >> i mean, i it. >> i mean, i drop that point, i drop in a quick point. um, very quick one on this. nigel uh, of all the executives , the all the executives, the individuals that i've protected over the last 30 odd years, i would say it's. and you touched on a good point, mark. it's about the families, many of the many of the principals have actually know actually said, you know what? i don't actually want the protection myself, but i do want it that's it for my family. that's why i hope within the risk assessment, that this money is that wherever this money is assigned whichever assigned to, whichever mp requires at the requires it, who is at the spearhead of a threat that a lot of consideration is made for their family and they are not left and family out in the cold, and family homes in particular. >> gentlemen, we could debate this longer. >> gentlemen, we could debate this at longer. >> gentlemen, we could debate this at you've»nger. >> gentlemen, we could debate this at you've heard folks at home. you've heard a good, think, very reasoned good, i think, very reasoned debate on this. wait for

debate on this. can't wait for your reactions in minute. your reactions in a minute. well, i knew when i launched the de—banking crusade that it wasn't going be in a few wasn't going to be over in a few weeks, and we learned overnight that 140,000 businesses, nearly 3% of all small businesses in the uk, were debunked last year. how on earth is any of this going to change unless the culture within the banks changes and parliament starts to look at some of the legislation

? well i asked you, do mps need more protection ? an i did more protection? an i did predict what the results would be and i'm not in the least bit surprised. and understand surprised. and i understand the emotions of this. emotions behind all of this. helen what a disgrace. what helen says what a disgrace. what about us? is helen not happy about us? is helen not happy about the extra 31 million? ron says if the mps have decided they need protection at great taxpayers expense, is it not

time they realised the people of britain also need protecting ? britain also need protecting? derek says if the mps did their car, did their job, the current situation would not have been allowed to gain traction. derek, i agree with you 100. misguided encouragement of multiculturalism and by that i mean communities separating out as much as possible. and, you know, the blair government were very much at the forefront of that and irresponsible , uh, that and irresponsible, uh, immigration policies that have led to parts of our cities not being integrated at all. and frankly, we're being honest about it . a lot of people coming about it. a lot of people coming into the country from completely different whom we different cultures with whom we share very little in common. moving on to a pet subject of mine, it's dominated my life since last july when i decided that i'd blow the gaff on being debunked . and what was obvious debunked. and what was obvious to me at the time was that if you are debunked as an individual or a business, and in my case, it was both people don't go public, not only is it

humiliating, but you also as a business, think it might damage your future prospects of getting an account. it may even make your customers wonder about your credit worthiness. well, overnight we get a report from the treasury select committee and the chair of which, harriet baldwin mp, tory for west worcestershire , joins me and worcestershire, joins me and harriet. just you know, this is unbelievable that in the space of the last year, 140,000 small businesses have been debunked. and of course, the reasons given, it's always the same. it's fear of financial crime or fraud. and maybe in a few cases that was legitimate and true. but it's nearly 3% of all small businesses were debunked last yeah businesses were debunked last year. and i, you know , i have to year. and i, you know, i have to say, andrew griffith, who was the treasury minister at the time, jeremy hunt, the treasury minister at the time, jeremy hunt , the time, jeremy hunt, the chancellor, you know, did make some very warm noises that they were going to talk with the fca and things were going to improve. it seems to me nothing's changing. >> it was really startling ,

>> it was really startling, wasn't it? information that wasn't it? the information that we and were really we released and we were really shocked it . so committee shocked by it. so our committee has looking at access to has been looking at access to finance for small and medium sized businesses, because they're lifeblood of the uk they're the lifeblood of the uk economy. and we wrote to the big high street banks and some of the lesser known banks, and we asked them this exact question how many bank accounts for businesses did you close over the course of the last year? and we are really taken aback by the scale of this problem. and i think, as you say , that it's not think, as you say, that it's not going to be zero. is it? because they're going to be people, you know, as they say, who've been, you know, abusive to their banks, people banks, or there are people who have caught something have been caught doing something fraudulent . and so, you know, fraudulent. and so, you know, they are going to within they are going to be within their close bank their rights to close those bank accounts we think a accounts. but we think as a committee that anyone who's going about a legal business activity in the united kingdom and they've given the know your customer information to their bank, they ought to be able to find a bank who will give them a

bank account. they to be bank account. they ought to be able to, harry. >> but here's problem. >> but here's the problem. i think problem is, if what's think the problem is, if what's seen unusual payment seen as an unusual payment appears business account, appears in a business account, and that could be a large sale or a large contract whatever or a large contract or whatever alarm bells go off inside the bank and immediately a whole series , a piece of legislation series, a piece of legislation that mostly came in through eu money laundering directives, by the way, all of it well intentioned, but for the bank to have to check and go through that costs them more money and comply science than they earn from the account in a year. and i just question whether what's really needed here and this should be coming from the fca . should be coming from the fca. you know, the financial conduct authority are there to provide a service to make sure we're not being ripped off. we're not being ripped off. we're not being treated badly by financial institutions . parliament needs institutions. parliament needs to through this legislation to go through this legislation and make less onerous. surely and make it less onerous. surely >> well, it also needs to come from the government from from the government and from parliament, rightly say. parliament, as you rightly say. so i think the fca definitely has role, and we've them has a role, and we've asked them about were the about this and they were the ones you ones who confirmed that you

know, political know, for legally held political views like yours, you know, absolutely out of order to close your bank account for that. and we heard from the minister today. so, andrew griffith's successor is bim afolami . and he successor is bim afolami. and he was telling the committee today that he's going to look again at those laundering those money laundering regulations. he also said regulations. and he also said that he's going to bring in new rules on closing a bank account to give not just individuals , to give not just individuals, but also businesses more rights when their bank decides to close their bank account. >> i'm delighted that bim has said those things today, just as i was delighted that his predecessor, andrew griffith, said those things. but you know, there is an election coming up at yeah there is an election coming up at year. there at the end of this year. there could a change government could be a change of government who that won't who knows, maybe one that won't take as seriously. take this quite as seriously. that'll be to if is that'll be up to them. if it is them. all i'm saying to you is harriet. a of promises were harriet. a lot of promises were made last year about this, made to me last year about this, because one of the reasons i raised was, i know the fear raised this was, i know the fear that people's that it puts into people's hearts . i that it puts into people's hearts. i know that it puts into people's hearts . i know getting new hearts. i know getting new business bank accounts open can be very , very difficult, but be very, very difficult, but

people's livelihoods people's lives are livelihoods are wrecked unfairly . i are being wrecked unfairly. i keep hearing warm words . am keep hearing warm words. am i going to see any action? well it sounds like you are, but i agree with you that these things often take lot longer people take a lot longer than people would our committee is would like, and our committee is the that sort of holds the one that sort of holds people's to the fire when people's feet to the fire when this happens. >> i do think we're going to >> but i do think we're going to see and we heard see action. and we heard evidence our inquiry about evidence in our inquiry about perfectly parts of perfectly legitimate parts of the uk economy, like pawnbrokers , for example, amusement , for example, like amusement arcades, anything to do with cash, anything that you know is slightly unusual . they seem to slightly unusual. they seem to really struggle. and i think we've got to, on a cross—party basis, because that's where our committee's influence comes. we've got to say that this is something that we expect to change. >> great report, shocking conclusions , but it does add and conclusions, but it does add and help debate the pressure for help the debate the pressure for change. harriett baldwin, help the debate the pressure for charfor. harriett baldwin, help the debate the pressure for charforjoining:t baldwin, help the debate the pressure for charfor joining me. ldwin, help the debate the pressure for charforjoining me. now,, help the debate the pressure for charforjoining me. now, you'll you for joining me. now, you'll have heard news that have heard on the news that there been three dead there have been three dead bodies found in the channel today. the today. they were found on the french of channel there french side of the channel there was a reported floating french side of the channel there was um, reported floating french side of the channel there was um, and )rted floating french side of the channel there was um, and near floating french side of the channel there was um, and near the iting french side of the channel there was um, and near the varne body, um, and near the varne lifeboat. and both are the

dungeness. both the dungeness and dover lifeboats are out now. you can see here your screens you can see here on your screens the lifeboat out the dungeness lifeboat out there. are very, there. i mean, these are very, very made boats. look how very well made boats. look how shocking conditions shocking the sea conditions were. some situations today was very simple. at sort of 5:00 this morning, the channel was very, very calm. boats started to come . somewhere between 250 to come. somewhere between 250 and 300 young men have come into dover today. but after midday, congestion has changed hugely. but there's one thing i want to expose here today that's never been talked about before. and it's this i broke the story about how the french navy literally escorts migrant boats to a 12 mile line, and then after talking on the radio, has as the vessels over to either border force or to the rnli . border force or to the rnli. what i've learned today is something else that when the weather's bad , the french navy weather's bad, the french navy goes up to the migrant boats and says, look, you really mustn't be here. this is very, very dangerous and it off the

dangerous and it takes off the boats . those that are fearful, boats. those that are fearful, those that are scared , but it those that are scared, but it allows who want to stay on allows those who want to stay on to continue and escorts them off to continue and escorts them off to the british. and frankly , to the british. and frankly, this whole practice of the french navy literally escorting migrant boats into british waters is one that needs to stop . harriet baldwin still with me. we talked about deterrence earlier on, but i just, you know, surely the french navy should not be escorting boats into british waters. i agree with you. i mean, i'm just absolutely astonished by this . absolutely astonished by this. i'm amazed there's not more of a fuss about it. they say the reason that they do it is that if they did try to intervene, they would literally throw themselves into the channel well, frankly, i don't believe a word of it in a moment, donald trump's comment on nato, a subject about which i had a discussion with him at mar—a—lago two days ago, is increasingly being used to build and bolster the european defence union. we'll talk about that.

plus was macron wise not to rule out sending troops to the

ukraine? i think many were quite surprised by how strong emmanuel macron was when he refused to rule out sending ground troops to ukraine, he said we will do everything that we can to make sure russia does not prevail and if you add that to what donald trump said just a couple of weeks ago , hey, you know what? weeks ago, hey, you know what? you're not paying the membership fee. we're not going to come as america and defend you. all of this is being used as an excuse, a political excuse in my view, to fast track the european defence union , the european army defence union, the european army in everything but name. and indeed, ursula von der leyen in the european parliament today said europe must spend more , said europe must spend more, spend better, spend european.

we've even seen manfred weber, who's the head of the epp group, the biggest group in the european parliament, saying that the european union needs an independent nuclear weapon. now i personally believe that all trump is trying to do is make people play the game, but i have my fears that we may be heading in a very, very odd direction. i'm joined by elisabeth braw, senior fellow at the atlantic council and author of goodbye globalisation the statements that we're getting from macron, von der elianne . even though von der elianne. even though they don't spend very much money on defence, they seem to have this idea that they're going to have a very strong navy , air have a very strong navy, air force, army and maybe even nuclear deterrent . um, this kind nuclear deterrent. um, this kind of is globalisation, isn't it? it's not. >> and i think what this what macron was saying was essentially we need bold new ideas for how to help ukraine. and i'm going to present the bold idea you are the other nato

member states are probably going to shoot it down, but i am going to shoot it down, but i am going to , uh, be the person who thinks to, uh, be the person who thinks innovatively. and then what? ursula von der leyen said in the european parliament is essentially about how do we, uh, allocate the money we are spending ? we european countries. spending? we european countries. eu states, how do we eu member states, how do we allocate it better? because it's saying that you're going to spend 2% is one thing, but actually you can spend 2% on a lot of things. if you look at the country like greece, it spends around 2% and usually more and doesn't contribute . more and doesn't contribute. shoot a whole lot to nato's capability because with that money and the things it buys for that money, you can look of course you can spend money very badly. >> and we've had a few procurement problems here with the ministry of over the the ministry of defence over the years, ever on years, where nothing's ever on budget ever on budget and nothing's ever on time. the political argument time. but the political argument that's being used consistently now is that if trump wins, america is going to leave nato. america is going to leave nato. america is going to leave nato. america is going to walk away. that's we need , you know, that's why we need, you know, our own european defence. and

the truth of it is trump has never said he'd walk away from nato such, provided people nato as such, provided people play nato as such, provided people play the game he to play the game he likes to frighten people. >> and i wonder, nigel, whether he merely be to he does it to merely be to entertain his american audience or to please his american audience , or whether he's audience, or whether he's serious about it. but of course , serious about it. but of course, what matters is the effect it has on the countries that he's talking about. and that is the frightening thing you would expect of an ally that if he wanted to make that case very strongly, he should pick up the phone call the prime phone and call the prime minister of of offending minister of the of the offending countries argument countries and say the argument here and i understand here would be and i understand the what saying. the logic of what you're saying. >> were dealing with >> if we were dealing with normal but we're normal diplomacy, but we're deaung normal diplomacy, but we're dealing , who dealing with donald trump, who does very different does things in a very different way, some hate way, and some love it, some hate it, the argument would be it, but the argument would be that actually this same argument was being made by obama. that actually this same argument was being made by obama . this was being made by obama. this same argument was being made by clinton. the bushes . is that clinton. the bushes. is that for, you know, really ever since the wall came down, europe has been delinquent in terms of its expenditure. and all the

previous american presidents tried diplomacy and they achieved nothing. and maybe what trump said in brussels in 2017 has actually helped to make members spend a bit more money. >> actually, i think the even more influential party in this equafion more influential party in this equation is , is vladimir putin. equation is, is vladimir putin. and we saw in recent times. yeah, in recent times . and there yeah, in recent times. and there is nothing as sobering as a war next door or in your neighbourhood. and we have seen countries really increase their defence spending. but nato here is one of problems about is one of the problems about increased spending . who increased defence spending. who is the weaponry is going to make the weaponry that we are ordering that that countries from countries are ordering from defence ? we don't defence manufacturers? we don't have factory workers. so have enough factory workers. so we spend the money, we we can spend all the money, we can all the money we want. can spend all the money we want. where are the factory workers? >> a very point. >> that's a very good point. given we're virtually >> that's a very good point. given downe're virtually >> that's a very good point. given down the lirtually >> that's a very good point. given down the british! closing down the british steel industry, example, industry, for example, and the same of europe, too. same in much of europe, too. >> if you are a factory >> and if you are a factory worker in the defence manufacturing industry , that's manufacturing industry, that's not something that you learn in one these skilled jobs. one day. these are skilled jobs. and i think this is this is

where it really, uh , becomes where it really, uh, becomes reality we have, uh, reality that we have, uh, dismantled a lot of, of our defence capabilities down to the factory workers and, and without factory workers and, and without factory workers, we are not going to be winning a war against russia, nor are we going to help be able to help ukraine when its war against russia . when its war against russia. >> the point about deindustrialise ation is right and i thank you forjoining me. it leads me on beautifully to my next point, which is about the net zero policy, because, you know, that's the that know, that's the reason that port talbot's closing. it's so we can meet our net zero targets. let's now talk farming in relation to net zero and regulations . anna mcmorrin is regulations. anna mcmorrin is the labour member of parliament for cardiff north. she asked rishi sunak this question in the house of commons today. >> this last weekend , the prime, >> this last weekend, the prime, the prime minister posed for photographs with a group that shares extreme wokeist conspiracy theories on climate change and campaigns against net zero. >> does the prime minister share

their views ? that's that's no their views? that's that's no way to talk about the welsh farming community, mr speaker. >> absolutely . >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> well, no wonder his own side cheered. i'd have cheered. yes, i agree with rishi sunak. he was absolutely right to make that point. shame it came from a conservative party who, just a couple of years ago actually runs a rewild. 30% of the engush runs a rewild. 30% of the english countryside . but never english countryside. but never mind gareth davies , dairy farmer mind gareth davies, dairy farmer in wales, has been very , very in wales, has been very, very prominent in a protest that has taken place today outside the welsh parliament. outside the senate here he was talking to gb news earlier on this afternoon . news earlier on this afternoon. hello joe. hello. yes, hello . hello joe. hello. yes, hello. pleased to have you on live . um, pleased to have you on live. um, now, your protest today was of some significant size . some significant size. >> yes. it's all to do with the sustainable farming scheme. the tb and the sz ruling that, uh,

the welsh government are trying to implement on us. >> so they want you to put 10% of your land into trees and a further other 10% of your land effectively set aside. would that be right? they want you to take out a farming 20% of your land. >> that's correct. yes uh, when we are when they they want to secure food security , but yet secure food security, but yet they want to, um, take 20% basically of our agricultural land out of to pay for this net zero climate and is this just in your opinion, you know , a one your opinion, you know, a one off big protest outside the welsh parliament, or is this the beginning of something not quite the same vein, but something like we've seen over the, over, over the, the rest of europe now for several months ? uh, no , this for several months? uh, no, this is we've been we've been having,

uh , public meetings for the uh, public meetings for the last, uh, month or so about, uh, about the scheme that they are trying to implement, but it's basically what it is all about. it's they are trying to strangle welsh farmers, and we're not we're no longer willing to put up with what they're trying. trying to implement on us. if it's all about trying to keep welsh , keep keep welsh farmers welsh, keep keep welsh farmers farming, garrett davis , thank farming, garrett davis, thank you for joining farming, garrett davis, thank you forjoining me here live on gb news. >> well , this is a very, very >> well, this is a very, very common thing right across europe. we saw protests in dover just the other day and even my previous package about defence. you know, if you haven't got steel factories, how on earth can you prepare for a better military ? we net zero. more like military? we net zero. more like net zero, in my view . in net zero, in my view. in a moment we hear that cigarettes are going to go up to £16 a packet, £16 for a packet of fags . surely all that does is to

increase the size of the black market and actually, actually in many, many ways to make illegal drugs even more attractive. maybe vaping provides an alternative, but we're told that is going to get taxed heavily . to. >> on patrick christys tonight , >> on patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm, it's the question everyone's asking can the prime minister confirm whether he, too, would welcome mr farage back into the tory fold? >> nigel farage is to on give you the answer and suella braverman bites back. >> they are in britain, but not of britain . of britain. >> has multiculturalism fail? should mps be cowering away in their own homes, hiding from the baying mob ? and we are the only baying mob? and we are the only channel with the inside story on why prince william missed yesterday's royal event. don't miss patrick christys tonight, 9 to 11 pm. be there

>> well, this government says that next week it will return to true tory values in the budget. uh, part of that, of course, is the big state telling us how we can and cannot live. it would seem that's now modern conservatism. i'm surprised that they haven't put forward banning booze, but of course, cigarettes are line. may are in the firing line. they may well to £16 a packet from well go up to £16 a packet from next wednesday. now, all of these big increases in tobacco dufies these big increases in tobacco duties have not to led increased revenues. it stayed pretty static at about £10 billion a yean static at about £10 billion a year, part of that can be explained by fewer people smoking. but if you think about inflation, it should have gone up way, way more than that over the course of the last decade. now, the folks, is the now, the reason, folks, is the massive of the illegal massive growth of the illegal tobacco about 80% of tobacco market about 80% of hand—rolling tobacco now comes into this country and is sold illegally. also, the more expensive cigarettes become well , actually you can buy a gram.

i'm assured of cannabis for about a tenner and that could make you up to three joints. so maybe in some ways it's just cheaper to smoke pot than it is to buy cigarettes . but the other to buy cigarettes. but the other alternative, of course, is vaping. and there's been a big move vaping. and many people move to vaping. and many people saying actually, it genuinely does help smokers to stop smoking. now i'm not endorsing smoking. now i'm not endorsing smoking anything. of course i'm not. and certainly not moving to illegality . but i do think illegality. but i do think putting up cigarettes like this is mad and to do at the same time to put up some big new taxes . we don't quite know what taxes. we don't quite know what on vaping, it seems to me to be. if you're going to make a health argument, i think actually counterproductive. i'm joined by reem ibrahim, communications officer for the iea, and andre kattouf from the uk vaping industry association . reem, you industry association. reem, you know, you're you guys believe in free markets and free choice and it just seems to me that taxing adam smith, if you go back to adam smith, if you go back to adam smith, if you go back to adam smith all those years ago ,

adam smith all those years ago, i'm sure a sort of hero of your organisation . absolutely. but he organisation. absolutely. but he said if you tax brandy too much, they'll smuggle it from france. isn't the same argument true here? >> absolutely. so look, i mean, i can sit here and make the individual liberty argument and i can tell you that, you know, one fifth of adults in the united kingdom are smokers , and united kingdom are smokers, and that those people should be to free make those life choices. we all know that smoking is bad for us. you know, they tell us it very, very clearly on tobacco packaging. all it's packaging. so we all know it's very bad us, but actually we very bad for us, but actually we should be allowing those adults very bad for us, but actually we sh make e allowing those adults very bad for us, but actually we sh make those wing those adults very bad for us, but actually we sh make those wing thcfor adults to make those choices for themselves. nanny themselves. i think the nanny state need to get out of trying to involved people's to be involved in people's lives. from from a lives. but even from from a pubuc lives. but even from from a public health perspective , we public health perspective, we know that actually, if the government continuously increase and hike the tax, tobacco duties on, on, on tobacco products, actually what that eventually doesisit actually what that eventually does is it means that you're pushing people to , to the black pushing people to, to the black market, to the illicit market where there's counterfeit cigarettes and all sorts of things going on. >> andre , you know, there are

>> andre, you know, there are many that believe and doctors too, you know, that if you switch know, 40 a day too, you know, that if you swvaping, know, 40 a day too, you know, that if you swvaping, that know, 40 a day too, you know, that if you swvaping, that is know, 40 a day too, you know, that if you swvaping, that is a|ow, 40 a day too, you know, that if you swvaping, that is a better» a day to vaping, that is a better thing to do. the argument against the industry is that it's become so trendy amongst youngsters youngsters who youngsters that youngsters who would ever smoke at all, would never, ever smoke at all, and fewer do smoke of a younger age taking vaping. what age, are taking up vaping. what kind of tax hit are you expecting to see next week? >> well, we can only speculate at the moment. um, but clearly the risk is if the government is taking it too far. we are talking about proposed bans on disposables. we are talking about taxes. we already know how this will out because we this will play out because we can look the australian can look at the australian market, vaping products market, where vaping products have basically been banned . you have basically been banned. you can access them on can only access them on prescription. and nine out of ten products in australia are now being bought from the illicit market. so which takes these products out of the regulated market out of quality oversight. leads to oversight. and it leads to a flourishing black market. the only ones who are benefiting from are criminals , and the from that are criminals, and the most the people who are hurt the most the people who are hurt the most smokers, who want to

most are smokers, who want to quit smoking. so really , we know quit smoking. so really, we know that vaping is 95% less harmful than smoking, and we need to help those smokers to quit. and both of those arguments, both of those arguments are very strong. >> and compelling arguments and i'm with you on both of them. but i returned to the question . but i returned to the question. the teenage craze for vaping is blamed by many on your industry. introduce chewing bubble gum flavour vapes and all sorts of vapes that might attract young people . how do you answer that people. how do you answer that charge ? charge? >> well, i would say there's unfortunately there are rogue players in our industry who sell to kids , and we all hate seeing to kids, and we all hate seeing kids vaping. kids shouldn't vape, shouldn't smoke. we know all it, uh, ideally they wouldn't do any of those, but, um, the responsible industry is not selling to kids. our average customer age is 37 years old. is it? and we sell bubblegum flavours . we sell sell all these

flavours. we sell sell all these flavours. we sell sell all these flavours. 90% of our sales are fruit flavours and sweet flavours. so what we need as an industry and we've been asking the government now for years to tackle the black market, prosecute those criminals and introduce a licensing scheme , introduce a licensing scheme, because at the moment what you have is that you see barbers, sun tanning studios , lots of sun tanning studios, lots of rogue traders sell vaping products and that should not be the case. so what we really need is a licensing scheme which allows only specialised retailers to sell these products . i get that and ensure i'm dying to get back into this debate. >> it is already illegal for under—eighteens to vape . under—eighteens to vape. >> it is already illegal for them to buy tobacco products and vaping products. now here's to stick that most people don't know about . double the number of know about. double the number of 11 to 17 year olds. drink alcohol regularly than vape regularly, no one is regularly, but no one is seriously considering a total ban on alcohol for everyone . ban on alcohol for everyone. just because some underage teens manage to get their hands on a bottle of vodka . so ultimately, bottle of vodka. so ultimately, if going to be making the

if we're going to be making the arguments actually some arguments that actually some people that are already banned from buying these products are somehow able to so we somehow able to get it, so we should just it for everyone, should just ban it for everyone, then? mean, this is then? i mean, this is effectively the incremental increase nanny state. and increase in the nanny state. and effectively using effectively people are using arguments like the environment is bad for the environment or the young people are getting it in to control your lives, in order to control your lives, in order to control your lives, in order to control your lives, in order to control your lifestyle choices. ultimately it is already illegal and i blame the police. i blame the lack of enforcement . i blame the fact enforcement. i blame the fact that actually in this country, we unable to already we seem to be unable to already enforce that already enforce the laws that we already have. so my question is, if the government seemed to be thinking that banning disposable vapes, increasing tax on tobacco products, they become products, if they become absolutely for absolutely unaffordable for everyday people in this country, the question is, who's going to be enforcing laws ? be enforcing these laws? >> nobody, of >> well, absolutely nobody, of course. you're and course. and you're right. and both very, both of you very, very interesting very, interesting arguments and very, very arguments. and do very strong arguments. and i do think actually ultimately that licensing it's been used licensing works. it's been used in many other areas, you know, guns , alcohol, whatever is, guns, alcohol, whatever it is, and goodness sake, and rain for goodness sake,

don't the example of under don't use the example of under eighteens drinking alcohol because then they'll start banning if rishi banning alcohol because if rishi sunak i, i think we sunak hears that i, i think we have a genuinely puritan prime minister. uh who would like to tell us what to do? uh, i'd love to get jacob's reaction to that debate. very interesting debate. wasn't it? >> it's a very important debate . >> it's a very important debate. and balance for the and there is a balance for the government of government to strike that. of course, raise tax course, you need to raise tax revenue and you want to discourage smoking, need discourage smoking, but you need to the level that to do it at the level that is the most effective. that is the most effective. and that is striking tax at the right rate. and all of us who dislike tax need recognise the government need to recognise the government needs from needs to raise money from somewhere . and i quite like it somewhere. and i quite like it coming volunteers , as you coming from volunteers, as you are fabulous volunteer. nigel are a fabulous volunteer. nigel you and you give money to you smoke and you give money to the government, i the government, which means i pay the government, which means i pay bit less tax on pay a little bit less tax on other things. thank you very much. yeah. >> no, you're absolutely partly much. yeah. >> ncandj're absolutely partly much. yeah. >> ncandj're ibsolutely partly much. yeah. >> ncandj're i mean, ly partly much. yeah. >> ncandj're i mean, it partly much. yeah. >> ncandj're i mean, it wasly much. yeah. >> ncandj're i mean, it was 10 right. and but i mean, it was 10 billion years it billion a year ten years ago. it was raising, know, was raising, you know, put inflation that you inflation into that and you would thought though would have thought even though there but you there are fewer smokers, but you would have thought they'd be raising than raising a lot more than 10 billion. they're black billion. they're not the black market is. >> do

wm- >> and why do you say on hand—rolled tobacco is very important? because you don't want markets? want to encourage black markets? >> no, no, no, they don't do any good what do good at all. now jacob, what do you us? you have for us? >> what are we going talk >> what are we going to talk about? a wonderful about? well, there's a wonderful question you broadcast. um, question that you broadcast. um, the to rishi the mad question to rishi about the mad question to rishi about the farmers green the welsh farmers and the green issue. and there's been a report from climate from the climate change committee fact committee that says the fact that we've reduced carbon because covid mean we because of covid doesn't mean we should carry that forward. we should carry that forward. we should even tougher. and this should be even tougher. and this is awful nonsense because actually, zero making us actually, net zero is making us much poorer. and that's what i'm going to be talking about. the cheapness the us cheapness of america in the us means the american economy is doing stagnant. doing well and ours is stagnant. and actually the and it's true, actually the whole of europe. and we need to get green get away from this green ideology that's really doing a lot of damage to our economy. it's already closing the steel industry. it's hitting farming now , and will get worse now, and it will just get worse unless we change it. >> you look the price of >> and you look at the price of power, you know, without which manufacturing can't and manufacturing can't exists. and the american industry half the american industry has half the american industry has half the price power wise. that's right . that we have. well, right. that we have. well, that's it from me a packed show

right. that we have. well, that evening. me a packed show right. that we have. well, that evening. back| packed show right. that we have. well, that evening. back with> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello again. it's aidan mcgivern here from the metalfest with the gb news forecast at mild at first, but we're going to see outbreaks of rain move across the country over the next 24 hours, ushering colder 24 hours, ushering in colder weather. by friday. now we've got low pressure at the moment, anchored to the northwest of scotland, a series of scotland, bringing a series of weather fronts in. but those weather fronts in. but those weather contain mild, weather fronts contain mild, albeit and increasingly albeit cloudy and increasingly wet the wettest weather wet weather. the wettest weather will be across scotland through the evening into northern england and eventually clearing from wales that rain sweeping into midlands , east anglia into the midlands, east anglia and the south east. by the end of the night, where we've got the rain, it stays the cloud and rain, it stays mild, 10 but mild, 8 to 10 celsius, but clearer spells for scotland and

northern ireland colder here as clearer spells for scotland and n0|begin ireland colder here as clearer spells for scotland and n0|begin thursday,lder here as clearer spells for scotland and n0|begin thursday,lder blustery we begin thursday, but blustery with strengthening winds, gales for the west and the north of scotland and quite a number of showers moving in across northern ireland and scotland . northern ireland and scotland. those showers the colder air those showers in the colder air falling as snow above around 2 or 300m. the showers also follow into wales in the south—west but east anglia in the south—east stays dull and damp through the day, albeit with milder air in place . the cold conditions, place. the cold conditions, though, develop widely by friday, with a system bringing some outbreaks of rain and hills know to wales, the north midlands , northern england, midlands, northern england, northern ireland and eventually into parts of scotland . rain into parts of scotland. rain showers for the south and in the far north it stays bright, but by saturday and sunday many places will be a little milder, with a mix of bright spells and showers . highs of 11 celsius. showers. highs of 11 celsius. a brighter outlook with boxt solar and sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello . >> hello. >> hello. >> good evening, it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation tonight we will be belatedly celebrating world polar bear day as population numbers continue to grow despite what the apocalyptic climate doomsters say. but the unelected and unaccountable climate change committee now wants to meddle with the uk's carbon budget . with the uk's carbon budget. meanwhile, it seems the french president , meanwhile, it seems the french president, emmanuel macron, is trying to plunge the west into world war iii with russia as britain rejects his plans to send nato troops into ukraine. but the armed forces can hardly define what a woman is, let alone to war with russia . the alone go to war with russia. the duke of sussex has suffered a fall from his high horse this is as the high court has ruled in favour of the home office after the duke took the case of his uk police protection court, plus police protection to court, plus , the brutal practice of de—banking is alive