news tonight on farage ben wallace , tonight on farage ben wallace, the former defence secretary, says that membership of the echr makes us more vulnerable to terrorism. >> so isn't it about time we drew the logical conclusion and decided to leave on a similar theme with this government .7 the theme with this government? the ft reveals today that rishi sunak did know about the arrest of the china suspected spy earlier in the year and yet still went ahead and trying to reset our relationship with beijing . are we getting our beijing. are we getting our china policy all wrong and labour control wales on sunday evening in come the 20 mile—per hour speed limits in virtually every town and village in wales . and we'll debate both sides of this and see does it really make any sense at all? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst .

polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thank you. good evening to you. well, the top story tonight is some breaking news that we've received that the value retail chain, the range has, we believe , struck range has, we believe, struck a deal to buy their collapsed rival, wilko . the companies rival, wilko. the companies agreed to pay around £5 million for the brands name and its website . and this sale could website. and this sale could mean the wilko name doesn't disappear from high streets for good. disappear from high streets for good . with their products in good. with their products in range stores . 122 of the range stores. 122 of the collapsed chain's shops have already been sold to poundland. owner pepco and b&m. more than 10,000 wilko workers are set to lose their jobs , although there lose their jobs, although there is speculation they may be placed within the companies that have snapped up the remains of the chain . now, in other news the chain. now, in other news tonight, tobias ellwood has resigned as chair of the house of commons defence committee over the so—called taliban tourism video. in a clip posted

online, he praised the taliban government in afghanistan and gb news understands mr ellwood made the decision after an informal meeting where he was called in and asked to defend his comment as well. in a statement this evening. the bournemouth east mp says he got it wrong and that the video reflected poorly on the video reflected poorly on the committee . gb news the committee. gb news understands that the father stepmother and uncle of sara sharif will shortly be landing back in the uk to face questions over her death. zara's father and his partner fled the uk for pakistan after the ten year old was found dead in the family home in woking in surrey on the 10th of august. we understand that flight should be landing at london gatwick in the next 15 minutes or so. surrey police saying they want to speak to sara family about the little girl's death and a man's been arrested after an 11 year old girl and two men were injured by

an american xl bully crossbreed dog. and a warning if you're watching on television, it does contain graphic images. this next clip footage emerging on social media of the dog chasing and attacking people in birmingham at the weekend. west midlands police saying the 60 year old has been arrested on suspicion of possessing a dog dangerously out of control . all dangerously out of control. all . the former chief financial officer and three others from the collapsed bakery chain patisserie, valerie have been charged with conspiracy to defraud the serious fraud office says it's charged christopher marsh and his wife alongside a financial controller and a financial controller and a financial consultant in relation with the offences. they're accused of conspiring to inflate the cash balance on the annual reports between 2015 and 2018, they'll appear at westminster magistrates court next month . magistrates court next month. now the chancellor says the government is sticking to its plan to halve inflation as the

economy shrunk by 0.5% in july. but jeremy hunt, explaining he remains confident about the future of the uk's economy, saying the country did recover quickly from covid. and he pointed out it's also growing faster than countries like germany or italy . in the long germany or italy. in the long term. labour says the economy's contraction, though, is failing of the government . those are of the government. those are your latest news stories. this is gb news across the uk on tv, in your car, on digital radio and now on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news . saying play gb news. this is britain's news. channel saying play gb news. this is britain's news . channel good evening. >> ben wallace was a highly regarded defence secretary. he really was. he commanded respect, i think, on both sides of the house of commons. he has gone from that post. he's leaving westminster as a member of parliament and whether that's to do with the change to his constituency boundaries or he simply had enough, i don't know. but he now of course is to free

speak out and to say what he really thinks. and i think what he said to the telegraph overnight is really interesting. he the european convention he said the european convention on has become a on human rights has become a serious risk to national security , and it's thwarting our security, and it's thwarting our efforts to stop terrorists in fact, he said the whole thing was lunacy, that we cannot deal with suspects plotting against britain from abroad , that we can britain from abroad, that we can kill them with drones. that's okay. or we can continue to leave them plotting. but what we couldn't do is what the american did when they finally took out osama bin laden. so he says that echr is a threat to our national security, that it leaves us more open to terrorism. and yet when he's asked the question , should he's asked the question, should we leave, he does the classic tory thing. oh, no , it's tory thing. oh, no, it's absolutely dreadful. but we should stay. it feels to me rather like a rerun of the old

eurosceptics who said the eu is dreadful, but we must stay as members . i dreadful, but we must stay as members. i think the public are coming to a very different view on this, and i'm asking you, is it time to leave the echr farage at gbnews.com for your answers and responses please. i'm joined in the studio by mark francois, member of parliament for the conservatives for rayleigh and wickford european research group chairman and of course ex army, somebody very , very concerned somebody very, very concerned with defence british forces . with defence british forces. tobias ellwood, the chair. until a few hours ago of the defence committee , he made some pretty, committee, he made some pretty, pretty erratic statement. i thought, about the taliban in effectively stabilising afghan can and doing a good job and he stood down as chair of that committee today, i suspect before committee members forced him out and just get your reaction to that. please >> it was a difficult meeting,

nigel, i think, for everybody . nigel, i think, for everybody. see, and it wouldn't be right for me to give you a sort of blow by blow account. i don't think that would be appropriate. i do think, though, tobias has taken the right decision to be fair under his chairmanship, the committee , you know, published committee, you know, published some really hard hitting reports about things like equipment in the army, you know, under his chairmanship. we really were having an impact. but because of this video, i think he felt in the end that he that he had to resign the only thing i would add, because he's issued a statement and it's right that he's gone, i think it was the right decision. he's issued a statement that stands on the record. only record. and the only thing i would as a member of the would add as a member of the committee is that we're all conscious. and i think tobias is, too, that video caused is, too, that that video caused a deal of angst, pain to a great deal of angst, pain to veterans who fought in afghan. it was a war and we lost a lot of people and we had many more

who were very seriously wounded . and to them and to their families and their loved ones, we're all very sorry for any pain that this may have caused . pain that this may have caused. and hopefully now we can we can begin to begin to move forward . begin to begin to move forward. but but we're all conscious of that. and i think to be fair, so is tobias okay? >> he got it wrong. he's gone . >> he got it wrong. he's gone. and in many ways, i think that's the right thing to mark. i mentioned a moment ago ben wallace, our former defence secretary, who and i think i was right in what i said in the introduction, he did command respect, i think, from both sides of the house. correct. you know, was somebody who cared know, he was somebody who cared about job, the job, about the job, loved the job, actually was in the job for rather a long time, the longest ever serving tory defence secretary, i think. yeah. yeah. and given last and you know, given that last year you had five education secretaries, it's quite nice to see some that actually see some people that actually stay. he's gone i stay. but he's gone and i

suspect it's the change of his constituency boundary that's forcing him out of parliament. well at the end of the day you have to ask ben but i mean he let me put it like this. >> i mean, i think he said in one interview that because remember, he'd been the security minister for was it two and a bit years before he was defence secretary think it secretary for. and i think it summed it up very well and he said, you know, you know, when he to bed at night, he had he went to bed at night, he had three by his one was three phones by his bed. one was his personal mobile, one was his departmental mobile. and the other top secret other one was the top secret phone. and he told me few days phone. and he told me a few days ago, now, when he out ago, even now, when he gets out of a car, he sort of pats himself down. if i got even though he knows he hasn't got all the same so so he all the same phones. so so he more than stood his watch. he was regarded. and it was very widely regarded. and it is to say if ben had not is true to say if ben had not been the defence secretary prior to the russian invasion, then because coming, call because he saw it coming, call it soldier's instinct, call it it a soldier's instinct, call it what will, he sensed what you will, he sensed what was come. he took on was going to come. he took on the he took the cabinet the job. he took on the cabinet office the foreign office to office and the foreign office to get those to the

get those in—laws to the ukrainians and to give them time to train on them. remember we've been ukrainians in been training ukrainians in britain 2014. and i think britain since 2014. and i think what operational orbital , if what operational orbital, if they not had those in—laws, they had not had those in—laws, but given bearing in mind what we now know about the first four and these are the weapons that were taking out the tanks. yeah, basically of modern bazooka. >> and in the defence of kyiv, they were enormously effective if not forced the issue if ben had not forced the issue and that the and made sure that the ukrainians had those weapons , ukrainians had those weapons, the russians would be having dinner, dinner in kyiv tonight. >> i believe that to be absolute. >> that well true , but >> that may well be true, but he's gone and yeah, in some ways, as you say, he more than did his bit enormously popular with the tory faithful. he's gone. with the tory faithful. he's gone . he's retiring, but he's gone. he's retiring, but he's now speaking out, frankly. and you this is quite strong you know, this is quite strong stuff. mark francois , you know, stuff. mark francois, you know, i'm going to repeat it. it bears repetition. the echr has become a serious risk to national security and is thwarting our efforts to stop terrorists as

and yet your party seems to be utterly committed to continued membership of an organisation thatis membership of an organisation that is threatening our national security. don't we need to do something about this? >> i think we do . we do, yes. >> i think we do. we do, yes. nigel, i'm not going to insult your intelligence . you well know your intelligence. you well know there are some people in the tory cabinet who regard the echr as holy writ. yeah, but i think events have evolved in such a way that we do need to revisit this . the boats issue . and way that we do need to revisit this. the boats issue . and ben this. the boats issue. and ben was making a separate point . but was making a separate point. but on the boats issue, what we should have done from the outset was what we did on prisoner voting and we should have just said, thank you very much. this is none of your business. you're overreaching . that's what we overreaching. that's what we should have told the strasbourg court. we are not going to accept your authority in this cross channel scenario. we will do what we have to do to protect our mark francois. >> we didn't do it. >> we didn't do it. >> i know that, nigel, but

that's what i think we should have done. >> no, no, listen, i won't disagree with that. and i'm sure most of our viewers won't disagree with that. we disagree with that. but we didn't i'm didn't do it. you see, i'm getting to this point, ben getting back to this point, ben wallace outlining the echr. wallace is outlining the echr. he calls it lunacy . and yet , he calls it lunacy. and yet, should we leave? oh, no, let's stay. members of it. and it reminds me, as i say, of the old tory eurosceptics, everything's dreadful about the european union. but we should stay as members. >> well, not not this tory eurosceptic, mate. no, no , eurosceptic, mate. no, no, no, no, no. >> but i mean time you were >> but i mean the time you were europe it's long europe minister, it's a long time back. the point i'm making is the party doesn't to is the party doesn't seem to have courage of the logical have the courage of the logical conclusion that had been reached by, as you say, the longest serving conservative defence minister who's been involved in the war on terror, on counter—terrorism . um, and it's counter—terrorism. um, and it's all well and good you sitting here and saying we should revisit it. what in god's name does that mean? >> all right, look, you've basically got three positions. one, we continue as we are the

second position is that we say in certain areas we will no delineated areas . we will no delineated areas. we will no longer accept the authority of the strasbourg court. and there's a there's a precedent on prisoner voting. i remember it very well. okay. and i think certainly in the boat scenario, we should do that. and i think in some of the scenarios that ben was outlining for reasons of national security and as you say, he's a man who's got a right to have an opinion, we should do that, too. and then, if you like, the third option is that we leave the echr altogether. >> tell me why we should stay in. well hang on. >> you didn't i? i said there are three options. >> you've just laid them out, right? >> so why should we stay in? >> what are the benefits to staying well i'm not saying staying in? well i'm not saying we should . we should. >> you didn't ask me that. well, i'm just about to. oh, okay. >> what do you think should do? >> well, speaking personal plea, to be very clear , i'm speaking to be very clear, i'm speaking as marc francois. i would now, given the events of the last few

years, given the boats, given what ben has said about national security , i'm prepared to security, i'm prepared to contemplate that we should leave. >> to contemplate. we should leave. yes. will this be in the conservative manifesto? >> i'm not in the government, nigel. >> do you want it to be in the conservative manifesto? i would like it to be. >> would it be a referendum or something that i mean, would it be a referendum vote or something that majority something that a majority conservative something that a majority con not ative to sit here and i'm not going to sit here and make all that up off the cuff. i mean, you people want to know, look, i think that the current position unsustainable, all position is unsustainable, all right? minister right? the prime minister faithfully promised the british people going to stop the people he was going to stop the boats. stopped boats. well, he hasn't stopped them knows them yet, and everybody knows it. so we're going to have to do something different. i think we now have what you might now need to have what you might call a national debate about the echr. and if the strasbourg court continue to overreach their powers, then it may be that we have to leave. >> all right, marc francois, thank you .

thank you. >> they get there in the end, it takes them a very, very long time , but they get there in the time, but they get there in the end . i we all know what marc end. i we all know what marc francois really thinks. of course we do . we all know what course we do. we all know what ben wallace really thinks. of course we do. and i do expect there'll be something in the next conservative manifesto . how next conservative manifesto. how sincere it will be. i don't know. but i do suspect that it will be there. in a moment, we're going to talk about china, the feet today revealing that the feet today revealing that the prime minister knew full well about this suspected china spy well about this suspected china spy that had been arrested, but still carried on with wanting to reset our relationship. and unbelievably , kemi badenoch unbelievably, kemi badenoch saying two days ago that we have to maintain our relationship with china , otherwise we can't with china, otherwise we can't get to net zero. dear, oh dear, oh, dear. i need a break. see you

radio. >> well, let's get some of your

reactions as to that debate on echr prompted by our former defence secretary. one viewer says it is imperative that we leave the echr because we shouldn't have foreign judges in foreign countries. having any jurisdiction over our sovereign decisions , especially regarding decisions, especially regarding deportation and immigration, michael says the echr is out of date and we should leave it immediately. now that we are a sovereign state, we should have our own human rights charter, not bend the knee of europe. well, viewers , i'm absolutely well, viewers, i'm absolutely with you on this, and i think it's very like eu member ship. it's one of those areas where i think westminster is detached from where a very large chunk of the country are now . our the country are now. our attitudes towards china do seem to be at best confused . we learn to be at best confused. we learn from the ft today it's confirmed that the arrest of a suspected spy that the arrest of a suspected spy was known to rishi sunak, yet he still pushed on, attempting to reset the relationship and indeed sent the foreign secretary, james

cleverly to beijing. some would argue , of course, we should argue, of course, we should always maintain negotiations , always maintain negotiations, even with people that we disagree . but it does seem that disagree. but it does seem that our policy, our foreign policy with china is at very best confused. i'm joined by austin williams, journalist and author on china and a visiting research fellow at the thlu university in china. and i managed to pronounce that without getting it wrong . austin, welcome to the it wrong. austin, welcome to the program . do you see why many of program. do you see why many of us are just utterly confused as to really what the british foreign policy position with china is? >> well, absolutely. i mean, obviously spying has gone on for a long time. i just saw on a rival channel that the hong kong chinese have just revealed that there was a us spy operating within within america for the last 30 years. you know, and the spy last 30 years. you know, and the spy balloon, if we remember that from the beginning of the year, china flying over america. so there's always this of there's always been this kind of to it used to be

to and fro. it used to be russia, but now china has really come the fray. so what come into the fray. so what i mean, i do think that there is something business something about doing business with those countries with whom it's business. it's sensible to do business. and since china is one of the major the major business partners to the uk , about 150 billion uk, about 150 billion investment, i think the uk at investment, i think in the uk at the moment, then it would be foolish. just to kind foolish. i think just to kind of withdraw bring down withdraw or kind of bring down the iron curtain. >> do take your point on >> i do take your point on spying. we've been spying on spying. we've all been spying on each other forever. in fact, we're it. i think we're rather good at it. i think it's of our of our great it's one of our one of our great national export industries. well it's one of our national characteristics that are characteristics that we are quite good at it. although, you know, heart know, spies at the heart of parliament, very parliament, obviously very worrying indeed. and yet, austin, the reason that i feel so and about so strongly about this and about whether really trust whether we can really trust china what's happened in hong china is what's happened in hong kong, a very clear kong, you know, a very clear agreement . you know, one agreement. you know, one country, two systems a deal , agreement. you know, one country, two systems a deal, a legally binding deal in a national treaty to a 2047. and they've just torn up the book, haven't they? yeah but you know, i mean, i my starting point is,

is that, you know, china is a one party authoritarian state. >> what do you expect? >> what do you expect? >> that's why i'm sorry. >> that's why i'm sorry. >> i'm sorry. so i do think i'm sorry. i'm with you on i'm sorry. >> i'm with you by that argument, you know. >> you know, they may well be that, we only handed hong that, but we only handed hong kong back on the promise the kong back on the promise and the protection of people in hong kong 2047. and we see, kong up until 2047. and we see, as we see media man units big and small, we see pro—democracy groups being locked up in prison, forced to leave. >> i'm a democrat and i'm not a supporter of the chinese state. so we'll put that on the table. second thing is, is that we do have to remember, i mean, i know this might not sound as if i'm playing fair, but generally, when britain left, hong kong had set up entire industry of set up an entire industry of democratic, mandates set up an entire industry of dem systems mandates set up an entire industry of demsystems in mandates set up an entire industry of demsystems in order mandates set up an entire industry of demsystems in order innandates set up an entire industry of demsystems in order in sometes and systems in order in some ways to embarrass china when they came in, because they would have to either them or have to either dismantle them or carry out on britain's carry it out on britain's behalf. so, you know, britain's rule in hong wasn't exactly rule in hong kong wasn't exactly the and hong the fairest. and hong kong police fairly so police were fairly brutal. so all that said, completely all that said, i completely agree with you. i mean, what's happening in hong kong is kind

of is abysmal. the denial of all those democratic rights, those kind of democratic rights, which long enjoyed which they have long enjoyed are now taken that, you now been taken away, that, you know, walk down the know, you can't walk down the street of kind of street for fear of being kind of snatched and taken into china's mainland. that is mainland. so i mean, all that is true. do think it's an issue true. i do think it's an issue for the hong kong people to resolve. i don't know whether necessarily have ongoing necessarily we have an ongoing liability other bringing liability other than bringing around refugees if they're allowed but suppression allowed to, but if suppression is that it is, it's is on a level that it is, it's very difficult for them . very difficult for them. >> of course. think think to >> of course. i think i think to express collective voice, express their collective voice, extraordinary kemi extraordinary comments by kemi badenoch have to keep on badenoch that we have to keep on doing business with doing lots of business with china net zero, which china to get to net zero, which i means we just i think means that we just export our manufacturing to china the co2 is produced china and the co2 is produced there as they there rather than here as they build 80 coal fired power stations every well that's stations every year. well that's an issue. i mean. >> yeah, sorry , sorry to >> yeah, sorry, sorry to interrupt you. i mean, i do think that's the nature of net zero in some respects. this whole carbon trading carbon credit scheme, which is effectively number effectively that a number of industrialised nations in the west to the west are then saying to the developing world and china is now self—declared developing now a self—declared developing country. know,

country. obviously but you know, when africa when you're looking at africa or parts parts india, parts of or parts of india, they're saying, you know, you don't to develop, so give don't need to develop, so give us carbon to keep us your carbon credits to keep our industries running and you can remain underdeveloped. >> nuts. >> the whole thing is nuts. thanks. we admitted china. thanks. yeah, we admitted china. you know , and the americans made you know, and the americans made a decision on this and we made a decision on this and many other countries. we thought if we let china the wto, if we allow china into the wto, if we allow them into the global trading club, did, that somehow club, which we did, that somehow that would liberalise demand , that would liberalise demand, criticised china and yet actually isn't the truth of it that under this particular president in the last decade they've gone in the opposite direction to that well they've gonein direction to that well they've gone in a fairly authoritarian manner, i agree with you. >> but so has the west. so you could argue that allowing them into wto, they've actually managed to infiltrate on much managed to infiltrate on a much more subtle way that more subtle level the way that we arguing. and we have an we are arguing. and we have an online safety which online safety bill, which is being parliament, being pushed through parliament, argued by the lords as one of the most monitored societies in

the most monitored societies in the world and they were saying it in a positive way compared to china. the fact that we have, you know, universities in this country which are blocking free speech, which are redact acting literature , the chinese literature, the chinese government must be delighted to see you know, wonder see this. you know, no wonder they 150,000 over they send 150,000 students over to i do think that, you to us. so i do think that, you know, to recognise that know, we have to recognise that even though is even though china is an authoritarian which is authoritarian country, which is where i started this conversation, you know, we're not far behind actually learning. >> there are things wrong >> there are many things wrong here. culture, etcetera. here. cancel culture, etcetera. but wouldn't compare the two. but i wouldn't compare the two. austin what you, as austin what do you, as a visiting fellow at this visiting research fellow at this university free university in china, how free are you to speak when you go there? very i mean, partly because i speak english and therefore it's permissible because the chinese state has got this kind of funny relationship with its own people, is that obviously people, which is that obviously they want the natives to they don't want the natives to be revolting and if you are saying radical things in english, in a bourgeois shanghai wine bar, they don't think it's a problem. >> ironically , i think it's >> ironically, i think it's probably more of a problem than

they give it credit for. but if you're saying it in xinjiang province, example, then the province, for example, then the clampdown there because province, for example, then the clamthink1 there because province, for example, then the clamthink that there because province, for example, then the clamthink that the there because province, for example, then the clamthink that the ordinaryecause they think that the ordinary people to be the ones people are going to be the ones that start that actually start the uprising. they are they are uprising. so they are they are very monitoring speech. very much monitoring speech. they're what people they're monitoring what people do say. there are do and say. but there are certain groups within society. i've had more free and open conversations , i would argue conversations, i would argue with chinese people with ordinary chinese people than had in this country , than i've had in this country, but not with the uyghurs . i've but not with the uyghurs. i've had a few with uyghurs because it's a complicated topic. maybe we don't want to go there, but because we are all over all over the country . so, i mean, i because we are all over all over the country. so, i mean, i have met several, but but i do think that there's the clampdown on the week is 1—1 of the great crimes of the century . i crimes of the century. i completely agree. >> okay. no, no. that that is incredibly frank. >> and i'm i'm fascinated that you were allowed to go back and forth china. you express forth from china. if you express views that. final thought. forth from china. if you express views do that. final thought. forth from china. if you express views do you at. final thought. forth from china. if you express views do you think?il thought. forth from china. if you express views do you think? how»ught. forth from china. if you express views do you think? how should we what do you think? how should we set our foreign policy with china ? china? >> i of think we have to be cautious. >> so, you know, up until fairly

recently, china was a major investor in our civil nuclear program in our 5g technology. i know they are coming over to the i conference in november. so i think there are certain kind of security issues which we would be sensible to have a view on. i think maybe kind of worrying about chinese students coming to the country could be possibly if they're entering into those subject areas . but i think in subject areas. but i think in general, chinese people , in my general, chinese people, in my humble opinion, in my experience, tend to be kind of very nice, ordinary people like everywhere else the world. so everywhere else in the world. so we want be kind of we don't want to be kind of overly suspicious and increase the approach overly suspicious and increase th

radio. >> yes, another new driving terror comes in this sunday. it's in wales. it's the new 20 mile, an hour limits. they'll be in virtually every town and village in wales. in virtually every town and village in wales . there will be village in wales. there will be 1 or 2 exemptions, but the welsh government tells us it's to encourage more people to walk and cycle in our community. it's to safeguard the environment. and i have to say, folks , i and i have to say, folks, i don't particularly mind a 20 mile an hour speed limit at 8:00 in the morning, at 3:30 in the afternoon, when the kids are coming out of school. and the fact that we have a sort of 2:00 in the morning strikes me as being completely and utterly mindless and ludicrous. and as for arguments that it for the arguments that it benefits the environment, well, actually, study from new actually, a study from new zealand suggested opposite, zealand suggested the opposite, but , strong, but it is a big, strong, passionate it's something passionate issue. it's something that the labour government in wales seems to believe and wales seems to believe in and who knows , maybe this is what

who knows, maybe this is what a labour government across the rest the uk would do. joining rest of the uk would do. joining me to debate this imminent change is andrew davies, welsh , change is andrew davies, welsh, conservative leader and member of the welsh parliament for south wales central and rod king, nbc campaign director for twenty's plenty for us. gentlemen, let's begin with you. andrew davies . what are your andrew davies. what are your main objections as to this driving change that comes in on sunday? >> well, it's the blanket nature of the of the changes that are coming in on sunday, that it will be the default position across the whole of wales. >> i'm someone who actually in certain areas does support the twenty's plenty campaign. i've supported in my own supported it in my own constituency, but i believe that should be in sensitive sites such schools, hospitals and such as schools, hospitals and care homes and not a default position that the that the welsh government, the welsh labour government bringing in on government are bringing in on sunday will it sunday that will see it delivered across whole of delivered across the whole of wales ultimately the polling

wales and ultimately the polling is showing that two thirds of the population here in wales are against a policy. against such a policy. >> well , well yes, they've >> well, well yes, but they've got labour majority that have got a labour majority that have brought it in. rod king you know, there are many of us, rod, who would say and we all understand the dynamics of this, that if a car hits you at 20 miles an hour as opposed to a car hitting you at 30 miles an houn car hitting you at 30 miles an hour, you know, you've got a 50% plus of surviving. and we plus chance of surviving. and we all that. none of us are all get that. none of us are arguing shouldn't be right, arguing this shouldn't be right, this speed outside this or speed bumps outside schools . but rod king, tell this or speed bumps outside schools. but rod king, tell me why this is appropriate at 2:00 in the morning. >> well, of course, that's like any speed limit you could equally say exactly the same about any speed limit, which you've you've got. so that's the end of really that that particular question. one thing which we do know is that 20 mile an hour limits where people are and i think we've got to remember that andrew actually

agrees with us on this . he's agrees with us on this. he's talking about 20 mile an hour for whether are schools, whether our houses, whether our high streets, whether they're our community centres, whether our hospitals, where their churches and, you know, when we add all these places up, it's most places in our in our communities, in our towns and villages. and, you know , in villages. and, you know, in those places, that's where we put street lighting so that the people walking around can actually see both see and with 20 mile an hour, they can be protected. and of course, there are some places where we have street lights which people don't walk or cycle or don't live or aren't in those places. and that's where local authorities can set except ones because this is a default . and therefore we is a default. and therefore we have that national standard agreeing with what andrew talks about, which is where those communities where those houses is, where those schools. >> but rod, but rod, but rod, common sense dictates common sense dictate. common sense

dictates that that's only at certain times of a day. and that actually 20 miles an hour is ludicrously slow at other times of the day. i mean, it is it is ridiculously pitiful. slow, isn't it ? isn't it? >> i think most of the time, if you if you if you can go at 20 miles an hour outside of those peak times, then you'll find you can get to most places within a urban or a village or a town environment fairly quickly. at 20 miles an hour means you can get across a town which is ten miles wide in about 15 minutes. so for most of our communities, it's really great. and as i said, we have 61 local authority cities out of 133. in england have already set 20 mile an hour for most roads, with exceptions. what is really smart wells is that rather than have to individually set traffic

regulated orders for all those streets , they can say right , streets, they can say right, what was 30 will be 30. but there can be exceptions runs exactly the same as there were before for where you had a default 30 and those local authorities , those local authorities, those local authorities, those local authorities in england that are going in the same direction, andrew art davis tend to be labour controlled authorities . labour controlled authorities. >> is this in your view, the labour party's war on the car driver? well keir starmer is on record as saying for what we would do in westminster if we were to form a government, look to what we're doing in wales. >> i think the evidence >> so i think the evidence speaks from itself. when the leader labour party who leader of the labour party who could potentially, people could potentially, if the people voted him the next prime voted him in, be the next prime minister, would see this minister, would like to see this across of the united across the whole of the united kingdom. not forget kingdom. but let's not forget also that there's economic also that there's the economic argument welsh labour argument that the welsh labour government's own papers show that could have government's own papers show ticost could have government's own papers show ticost implication could have government's own papers show ticost implication to :ould have government's own papers show ticost implication to thed have government's own papers show ticost implication to the welsh a cost implication to the welsh economy of nearly £9 billion. the figure that they use

the medium figure that they use is £45 billion. in any consideration . an that is consideration. an that is a considerable sum of money. and let's not forget the minister who's driving this policy, the deputy minister for transport, when he was the deputy minister for said that when for the economy, said that when it to the economy, he it came to the economy, he didn't know what he was doing. it came to the economy, he didn't were what he was doing. it came to the economy, he didn't were his at he was doing. it came to the economy, he didn't were his words, as doing. it came to the economy, he didn't were his words, notioing. it came to the economy, he didn't were his words, not mine . those were his words, not mine. now, none of us want to see another one casualty our another one casualty on our roads. we want safety our roads. we want safety on our roads. we want safety on our roads. that's why in my roads. and that's why in my opening remarks i said that there are areas that 2020 is a sensible course of action, such as care, homes, schools and hospitals and other sensitive sites. but having blanket sites. but having this blanket ban stretched across the whole of wales comes sunday night is not the way forward and is not winning over people to sign up to this policy. but the government are forcing it on the people of wales. and as of sunday night we will have that policy in place. but we'll have a detrimental impact on our economy and also also economy. and we've also also seen bus operators withdrawing services because they cannot keep to the timetable because those services will take longer to do their routes. those aren't

my words. those are the bus operators themselves. >> highlight , rod, rod, rod, >> highlight rod, rod, rod, rod, do understand ? rod? rod, do do you understand? rod? rod, do you understand why i. there are many of us and we hate the ulez extension. we hate speed cameras. we hate the idea that we're becoming the most monitored, surveilled and fined country in the so—called free world. do you understand that fundamental libertarian objection to this . objection to this. >> i can understand that objection to it, but i'm not involved in any of those things. and whether you want to object to those things is entirely up to those things is entirely up to you. what i'm talking about is the particular application of 20 mile an hour limits in the same place with andrew wants them. those schools, those estates , those were high streets estates, those were high streets and everywhere else and everywhere else . everywhere else. >> villages, villages will have this 20 mile an hour limit. >> absolutely lutely. >> absolutely lutely. >> time and time again ,

>> time and time again, villagers say we want 20 mile an hour limits in our village because it makes better to walk more comfortable to live. it's quiet air. it's just much more liveable and friendly and fairer for everybody in that village, for everybody in that village, for the elderly, for children , for the elderly, for children, for the elderly, for children, for people who want to walk , for people who want to walk, people who want to cycle . it people who want to cycle. it just makes those places where, well, an awful lot of people are going to get speeding tickets. >> i'm going to give a final short word, a final short word to davis . to andrew davis. >> we had a debate during the welsh parliament today tabled by the conservatives to try the welsh conservatives to try and this. labour implied and stop this. labour implied voted it down. but importantly the challenge put to the the challenge was put to the minister was this the thin end of the wedge? and today it's 32, 20, tomorrow it'll be 42, 30 and there will be an overall reduction across the board. again, it's about the control that labour want to assert in our private lives. that is something that isn't a good feature for any government to be

seen to be dictating to its people that is my big fear. >> from the merits. >> aside from the merits. gentlemen, you both of gentlemen, thank you both of you, a very spirited debate you, for a very spirited debate on that's live in on this issue that's live in wales. but i suspect we get wales. but i suspect if we get a labour government, we'll it labour government, we'll see it across entirety of the across the entirety of the country. and frankly these days when driving just look at when you're driving just look at the speedo, spend your whole time the speedo, the time looking at the speedo, the whole i think is nuts . whole thing. i think is nuts. now, the what? the farage moment. oh i love this. this is brilliant. so the appointment of thangam debbonaire. i know what an extraordinary name the appointment , an extraordinary name the appointment, her an extraordinary name the appointment , her appointment an extraordinary name the appointment, her appointment as the shadow sports minister is astonishing and says so much about the metropolitan elites from the big cities in our country because she admits as a shadow sports minister, she has never been to a football or rugby game in her life. i mean, you simply couldn't make it up. talk about detached from reality, but hey , you know, she

reality, but hey, you know, she might be after the next election, the full minister. now i've got some really bad news now for the rejoiners as those who have given us a diet of endless negativity about brexit economically ever since the morning after that referendum result in 2016, you see the office of national statistics revised the figures last week, which shows far from us being the sick man of europe since brexit, actually we've outperformed in gdp terms once mighty countries like germany and astonishingly , uk and astonishingly, uk manufacturing is now at the highest level it has ever been in the history of our country. and yes , yes, i know there's so and yes, yes, i know there's so much the government could have donein much the government could have done in terms of deregulation , done in terms of deregulation, in terms of encouraging business things the brexit freedoms gave us. they haven't used yet, despite all of that, we are

doing okay and brexit has had no perceivable difference on the uk's growth . and a warning quite uk's growth. and a warning quite extraordinary . the island of extraordinary. the island of lampedusa in italy in the last 24 hours has received 100 migrant boats . and 6800 people. migrant boats. and 6800 people. all this is a major problem for prime minister meloni, who was elected saying she'd do her best to stop the boats. it is all part of the eu lunacy launched in 2015, which i railed against in 2015, which i railed against in the european parliament, where they set up their own policy . and it was very simple. policy. and it was very simple. if you arrive across the med and land on eu soil, you can stay. and i said at the time millions would come and indeed i'd been proved right . and what we get in proved right. and what we get in the english channel is the knock on effect from it. even though we voted brexit, we're still

because a weak government suffering from that. knock on in a moment . but suffering from that. knock on in a moment. but wind energy is cheap. a moment. but wind energy is cheap . let's build as many wind cheap. let's build as many wind turbines as we can. let's get rid of gas to back it up. we can have loads and loads of wonderful renewable energy and it's going to be cheap as hell. in a moment i'll challenge absolutely all of that

whenever i say consensus, i get nervous. well there's a very big political consensus around wind energy. let's try for size. ed miliband in the june of this year , the conservative ban on year, the conservative ban on cheap, clean onshore wind has cost families £180 on their energy bills every year since 2015. what about sir keir starmer again in june of this year? well he said £1,400 a year

off energy bills for working families . just imagine the families. just imagine the difference that would make in a cost of living crisis and we can go on to alok sharma , the go on to alok sharma, the conservative, he said . a couple conservative, he said. a couple of years ago, the offshore wind sector is a major british success story, providing cheap green electricity while supporting thousands of good quality jobs. and let's finish off with the great green convert himself, boris johnson, who said, i tell every body who thinks hydrocarbons are the only answer and that we should get fracking and all that , that fracking and all that, that offshore wind is now the cheapest form of electricity in this country. there you are . this country. there you are. well, clive moffatt, former government adviser on energy security and hotfoot from a parliamentary committee today on this very subject, joins me . so this very subject, joins me. so if all the politicians are telling us that wind energy is cheap, that must be right, mustn't it ? mustn't it? >> i'm afraid not. no. if it was cheap, nigel, then the

developers would have bid into the auction and we wouldn't have had the very low bid on offshore wind. >> this was the auction last week, wasn't it, for this, correct? >> yes. >> yes. >> building new wind farms in the north sea. >> yeah. it's been described by as a disaster for offshore wind and it seriously puts into question the government's target of moving from 14gw now of offshore wind to 50gw by 2030, which is only seven years away . which is only seven years away. the real problem here is that we, the developers, knew that the costs of offshore wind were rising sharply . and so and the rising sharply. and so and the government capped , gosh, the government capped, gosh, the government capped, gosh, the government was wary about locking consumers into ever increasing subsidies. locking consumers into ever increasing subsidies . they were increasing subsidies. they were wary of creating a situation . so wary of creating a situation. so they created a cap price and most of the developers turned round and said, well, you can't live with that . and the reason live with that. and the reason why they live with that is why they can't live with that is because costs have been rising.

it's not just inflation. you've got to in mind that these got to bear in mind that these so—called contracts for differences underpin the differences which underpin the renewable energy auction are index linked . so inflation isn't index linked. so inflation isn't an issue . the issue, according an issue. the issue, according to the developers , is the whole to the developers, is the whole problem surrounding supply constraints. supply chain problems , costs of equipment problems, costs of equipment related costs associated with manufacturer , the costs of manufacturer, the costs of capital interest rates. >> so basically without some degree of government subsidy, new building of wind farms can't go ahead , can it? go ahead, can it? >> yes. i mean, today i was talking to some developers and there was talk of, well, what we really need. we needed another 50% increase in the strike price for offshore wind to even consider bidding. and that would mean public money. this would imply, in my view, depending on whether you feel the electricity pnces whether you feel the electricity prices , this would implies prices, this would implies a subsidy. so you're talking here about and this is the reason why government basically erred on

the side of caution is that they don't want to see an escalation in subsidies. and the way the way things are looking at the moment, most people are beginning that, in fact, beginning to feel that, in fact, wind is no longer cheap. yeah yes. and we're talking about strike prices. if they contain you with the scheme as it is approached , £100 per megawatt approached, £100 per megawatt hour and of course there are other costs too. >> there's the cost of new pylons, new infrastructure. >> want on to that >> i want to come on to that second not even talked second issue. not even talked about the context of the pure about in the context of the pure of the of the auction, which only focuses around the strike price paid to developers for private investment to recover over a 15 year contract . what we over a 15 year contract. what we were talking the other kwarteng is the externality costs associated with wind because the government is saying that by 2035 they want the electricity system to be gas free. well that basically is not going to happen and the cost of that would be enormous as well. it's mind boggung enormous as well. it's mind boggling because you're talking about three elements here. first of all, we know wind is variable

. and so there's a problem that , in fact, we may have 28gw of wind installed called in the system . but over winter last system. but over winter last year , there were several days year, there were several days when he only contributed at 4% of electricity, which was less than coal at the time. so you've got this what you've got the intermittency problem to deal with so that we have to compensate for that by giving out money to industry and consumers to cut back on demand at times of system stress. we've got to pay for emergency imports from belgium or whatever we actually have. so there's that cost on top of that , you've got cost on top of that, you've got one of the big issues that's never gets discussed enough is the costs. in other the constraint costs. in other words, wind is actually words, when wind is actually producing. but the system can't handle it. so we pay them to turn off these a few years back. this is about 500 million a yean this is about 500 million a year, which was considered to be reasonably acceptable given the level of wind in the system . but level of wind in the system. but now i've been told by a developer that they expect that these constraint costs could

rise to well over 1.5 billion by 2030. and let's just just spell it out. >> now. >> now. >> the reason for that is because there isn't enough infrastructure there. just to finish the argument, pettigrew, ceo greater said well, to get ceo of greater said well, to get the infrastructure to in line augned the infrastructure to in line aligned with this increase in wind will require billions if not significantly more than that . and we haven't got the time. >> so we're to just repeat, make it in good simple english. we pay it in good simple english. we pay wind farms, not to produce electricity when the wind's blowing all around the united kingdom, we could end up with a situation . situation. >> e some e“— >> there are some of the offshore wind farm projects are being paused because of the costs of the increases that have come through . and i think we come through. and i think we could end up with a ridiculous situation if nothing is done to take a much more objective and rational, realistic view of this, where we have offshore stranded assets in more sense than one. and so , clive, how do than one. and so, clive, how do we you know, i read out the quotes from all those senior

politicians , how do we and we politicians, how do we and we all want a cleaner, greener world? nobody's going to agree with me about. >> no, but how do we get a proper rational debate on this? >> well, the election? >> well, before the election? the we won't, because the answer is we won't, because basically the government will insist what insist that it's tell you what it can and labour will criticise them for not doing enough. >> i'm going to >> well, clive, i'm going to keep you on this keep getting you on this show because of people say to because a lot of people say to me, that bloke with the big hair who about energy, talks who talks about energy, he talks a lot of sense. >> we're we need this >> so we're going, we need this rational debate. >> we need a comprehensive, coherent transitional plan. and 2035 is far too early to talk about taking gas off electricity system. >> i think that that is right now . now, i have to give you a now. now, i have to give you a trigger warning that the next man who's going to appear on gb news is thought by some in the metropolit police to be a far right extremist. jacob, i read that newspaper article about you this morning. i couldn't couldn't believe it. >> well, mild old me. i know. for one thing, when it's you. but when it's me and that's what

i'm going to be talking about that the thing is, it's not sinister. it's keystone cops. it's just so farcically ludicrous that they are wasting their time interviewing people and saying , you've their time interviewing people and saying, you've had a bad day, man, and, well, i i'm always, you know, very cautious when people mention your name, obviously. >> but what on earth is going on? >> it's really very strange, isn't it? but it's all of a piece. you have that ridiculous booby, lord macdonald, saying that everyone was in tears in the foreign office because we voted to leave. and then you say that people me are that people like me are frightfully dangerous if that's all got be worried all they've got to be worried about. and running the about. and not running the country very well, are they? they need of serious things. >> i agree. it's going to be great fun. i'll be sitting i'll be in the car listening to jacob and his guests. and yes, i mean, you know, if jacob's an extremist, well, goodness gracious state the nation gracious me. state of the nation coming up with jacob in just a few minutes before that, let's get the important weather , get the all important weather, the temperatures rising , boxt

the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> alex deegan here with your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. a three way split with the weather tomorrow. quite blustery start across particularly northern scotland. many places dry with sunny spells, but across parts of northern england, north wales staying dull tonight . staying fairly dull tonight. it'll be wet and windy across much of scotland and northern ireland this area of ireland thanks to this area of low the strongest low pressure. the strongest winds western isles winds across the western isles through evening and then through the evening and then moving northern most moving across northern most parts the mainland during the parts of the mainland during the early hours, the rain will trickle its into northern trickle its way into northern england wales, where england and north wales, where it for most of it will linger for most of tomorrow. further south tomorrow. but further south stays largely dry, still quite warm . temperatures holding up warm. temperatures holding up into the teens, but not the warmth and humidity that we had last week into thursday. as i said, a bit of a three way split, mostly fine in the south, mostly fine across scotland and northern ireland. a northern ireland. just a few showers in the west. still showers in the west. it'll still be early on, but this

be very windy early on, but this zone of cloud lingering from parts of lincolnshire to yorkshire across through lancashire and across north wales generate some wales will generate some outbreaks of rain on and off as well. on either side of that, in the spells, quite the sunny spells, feeling quite pleasant, warm again pleasant, but quite warm again in the south, 23 to 24, further north, high teens generally. that's of dull and damp that's a zone of dull and damp weather has shifted by weather has just shifted by friday. quite a soggy friday. so quite a grey, soggy day southern scotland and day for southern scotland and northern the far north, northern ireland. the far north, dry and bright by the odd shower and most england and wales and most of england and wales set friday. only 1 or 2 set fair on friday. only 1 or 2 isolated showers in the afternoon. soon cool that rain persists, but turning warmer and more more across the more humid once more across the . south the temperatures rising i >> -- >> boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

gb news. >> hello , good evening. it's me, >> hello, good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the

nation. tonight talk of the so—called deep state is often a red flag for frothing conspiratorial madness. there comes a time when it's hard not to begin to connect a few dots. this week we were told of civil servants crying over brexit, and now we're told a man being investigated by counter—terrorism at a selfie with me used as evidence that he was a right wing extremist , that was a right wing extremist, that i'd been included in the prevent programme, a list of red flags and now more concerns arise about the government's shady disinformation unit. about the government's shady disinformation unit . the dots disinformation unit. the dots are coming together to form a faintly comic picture. on the other hand , this is a genuinely other hand, this is a genuinely sinister picture. perhaps two of the most menacing dictators to walk the earth are now doing so. handin walk the earth are now doing so. hand in hand. north korea's kim jong un and russia's vladimir putin met today to indulge in their control lived sense of grievance against the west. mr kim arrived in russia via armoured train in just last week. treasury minister urged the public not to burden or

burden the poor old hmrc