gb news. >> hello , good evening. it's me, >> hello, good evening. it's me, jacob rees—mogg on state of the nation. tonight not only will net zero make us cold and poor, but it is forcing us to abandon our moral compass amidst the backdrop of the alleged chinese espionage scandal, the business secretary has warned that we need the help of the genocidal regime in order to reach net zero. why has this secular religion been raised above every other policy objective the pensions triple lock is set to blow a hole in the budget as wages rise by 8.5. state pensions are on track to surpass £11,000 for the first time as the population ages. the birth rate declines and a democratic demographic crisis stares us in the face is the triple lock affordable? would a labour government take us back into a winter of discord tent made glorious summer by a daughter of grantham? well, labour deputy leader angela rayner has announced rather fittingly to

the trade union congress that labour would abolish conservative legislation preserving minimum service requirements after a summer of strikes. labour unleashing the unions could only make things worse and to vape or not to vape thatis worse and to vape or not to vape that is the question. whether tis the mind suffer tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings arrows of the slings and arrows of prohibition. the government is set to ban single use vapes in an attempt to thwart underage addiction. but should the neo temperance activists get their way? we'll be joined by a vapour live in the studio. state of the nafion live in the studio. state of the nation starts now . how . nation starts now. how. i'll also be joined by an illustrious panel this evening, alleged former tory mp and criminal barrister jerry hayes and the author and broadcaster michael crick . as always, i want michael crick. as always, i want to hear from you. it's the most important part of the programme. email me. male mogg at gb news dot com. but now the news you've always been waiting for. we're back polly middleton hirst

back with polly middleton hirst i >> -- >> jacob, thank you and good evening to you. well, our top story on gb news tonight is that the poundland owner, pepco, has agreed to buy up 71. wilko high street stores. it comes as the retailer prepares to close 24 of the outlets today with the rest to shut by next month. that means 12,000 jobs are at risk , means 12,000 jobs are at risk, although poundland says they do plan to offer roles to some wilko team members where possible . well, and that comes possible. well, and that comes as barclays bank says it's going to cut over 450 positions, unite the union, which represents employees at the bank , has employees at the bank, has branded the decision unnecessary and unjustified. they say it's going to leave people concerned about their job security and their livelihoods, as they've criticised barclays for cutting jobs at a time when it's making big profits too. lorry drivers

have been arrested in romania , have been arrested in romania, accused of being part of a major organised crime conspiracy to smuggle migrants to the uk in the back of lorries. nicolae toma is accused of attempting to smuggle nine migrants out of the uk in 2020. vasily bukovel is suspected of having dropped two migrants. he'd smuggled into the uk at thurrock service station in essex in 2021. and that comes as gb news reveals that more than 3250 migrants crossed the engush than 3250 migrants crossed the english channel in the last ten days. it coincides with the longest run of good weather. so far this year. home office figures show that 144 channel migrants cross yesterday in three small boats. today two boats cross carrying around 120 people, all now a residential street in glasgow was evacuated this afternoon after the discovery of a suspected unexploded ordnance device in a

back garden. police scotland say they were called shortly after midday after it was dug up the explosive ordnance disposal team has been dispatched to the property. a cordon , we property. a cordon, we understand, is in place and people in the surrounding areas have been evacuated as a precaution . surrey police say precaution. surrey police say they're working to secure the safe return of sarah sharif's five siblings from pakistan . the five siblings from pakistan. the ten year old was found dead at her home in woking in surrey last month. her father , her last month. her father, her stepmother and her uncle left the uk a day before her with all her siblings. surrey police say they're working with their international partners after a pakistani court ruled the other children would be temporarily moved to a government childcare facility in pakistan . in facility in pakistan. in regulators may have breached environmental law by allowing water companies to discharge sewage outside exceptional circumstances, according to the government watchdog. normally, the practise is only allowed

following unusually heavy rain to prevent flooding in residential areas. however, the office for environmental protection says defra , the protection says defra, the environment agency and ofwat may all have misinterpreted the law and a pub company is to charge customers around £0.20 more for every pint of beer during peak times. it's called peak time pricing . stone gate, which owns pricing. stone gate, which owns the slug and lettuce chain of pubs, says prices will increase at 800 of its venues on evenings and weekends. it has previous done so during one off events like the world cup, but will now introduce regular surge pricing with gb news across the uk. on your tv, in your car, on your digital radio and now on your smart speaker by saying play gb news. this is britain's news. channel yesterday , as we channel yesterday, as we discussed, the alleged chinese

espionage scandal, we thought it only fair to get in touch with the chinese embassy. >> it duly responded this morning as follows the allegation that china spies on the uk is entirely groundless. we urge the uk to stop spreading disinformation and stop political manipulation and malicious slander against china . we asked a representative of the embassy to on the programme and happy make this a and i'm happy to make this a standing invitation. i hope they'll come on. they might call me running capitalist dog or me a running capitalist dog or something like that, and me a running capitalist dog or slookhing like that, and me a running capitalist dog or s look forward like that, and me a running capitalist dog or slook forward to like that, and me a running capitalist dog or slook forward to having1at, and me a running capitalist dog or s look forward to having thatind i look forward to having that discussion backdrop discussion amidst the backdrop of alleged scandal, the of this alleged scandal, the business secretary who was in oxford today on tour of a mini oxford today on a tour of a mini car factory, that to say, a car factory, that is to say, a car factory, that is to say, a car factory, that is to say, a car factory makes car factory that makes minis rather small car factory rather than a small car factory . announcing a £600 . after announcing a £600 million investment for electric cars , she also announced that we cars, she also announced that we need china in order to reach our net zero targets, specifically with respect to chinese electric vehicle batteries. so as we've discussed before , the net zero discussed before, the net zero will now not only make us cold and poor, but it obliges us to

abandon our moral compass. and poor, but it obliges us to abandon our moral compass . to abandon our moral compass. to suggest that china is a serious player in the pursuit of net zero is almost as improbable as the statement its embassy provided to this program. while british emissions, which account for a modest 1% of the global total, have been steadily decreasing over the past 11 years, chinese emissions, which now account for nearly a third of the global total , are of the global total, are steadily increasing . even though steadily increasing. even though china locked down its economy harder and for longer than almost anyone else, its emissions increased over emissions still increased over that period. one of the key reasons we've been able to reduce our emissions is because of our transition away from coal to and yet china continues to gas. and yet china continues relentlessly to build coal power stations . jones doesn't want its stations. jones doesn't want its people to be cold and poor, and in fact, nearly half of all coal power in the world are power stations in the world are in china. over 1100. china is not fussed about net zero, david starkey said last night. the only language the chinese speak is the language of power. but the business secretary spoke

quickly, referred to chinese electric vehicle batteries. well, as it happens , the well, as it happens, the americans in the past few weeks have been clamping down on electric vehicle batteries from china. why well, because it turns out they use uyghur slave labourin turns out they use uyghur slave labour in xinjiang to produce them, the minority against whom they are committing a genocide. so this is where net zero ultimately is taking us. it has been elevated above all other policy objectives economic geopolitics, social or moral net. zero trumps them all. are you concerned about alleged espionage? taking place in westminster, the home of our democracy , while net zero comes democracy, while net zero comes first? i'm afraid. what about the complete disregard for the international treaty that cemented the maxim of one country, two systems between china and hong kong? sorry, net zero takes precedence. how about the repeated acts of aggression against taiwan? sorry. net zero. are you concerned about genocide in xinjiang? well, i'm afraid net zero trumps that one, too. as always , i want to hear from as always, i want to hear from you. don't forget to let me know your thoughts. you know the email by now, even better than

the teleprompter script writer. it's male. margaret gbnews.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk.e. margaret gbnews.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk .. margaret gbnews.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk . i'margaret gbnews.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk . i'm delightednews.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk. i'm delighted to ns.com. the teleprompter script writer. it's uk. i'm delighted to be:om. not uk. i'm delighted to be joined by the former chancellor, very distinguished colleague of mine in the house of commons. kwasi kwarteng kwasi. thank you very much. good to see you, jacob. you had the legal obligation, as did i briefly did, for net zero. that's did, yes, for net zero. that's right. it now seems to be trumping our moral compass. how do we justify that? so i think that your perception of net zero is wrong because it's a huge industrial opportunity. >> we you succeed in me in bays, in the department that was responsible for it. and you will know that a lot of our levelling up agenda a lot of our industrial agenda was driven by this thing that's called the energy transition . and very energy transition. and very lastly, on my first remarks on this, if we were to say we're not going to do any net zero, the germans, the americans with their act, the chinese even, i mean, we talk, we can talk about china. they're all industrialising in a way that's going away from fossil fuels to

renewable energy . renewable energy. >> one of the things i was really struck by in baz was that we were putting charges on our high energy users, particularly our steel sector. there was essentially forcing it out of business and then importing steel in china didn't steel made in china that didn't suffer from these regulations. this was net zero, making the uk economy poorer. >> so i think there is some policy areas where we've done some silly things and i always used to have when i was in baz debates with the treasury about this, that we were, we were, we were literally putting charges on our industry and making them uncompelling lviv, as you say. but that doesn't mean that the overall strategy of net zero is the wrong one. and i saw it in off shore wind. i mean, if you when we entered the house of commons in 2010, 40% of electricity was generated by coal burning. today, that's about 2. so we've already decarbonised and the chinese are doing the same thing. i mean, when i was in baz, we were we were the leaders in offshore wind. and today the chinese are

the leaders because they're building offshore wind farms. >> but you say by moving from 40% coal power generation, we have are have decarbonised, we are decarbonise, the decarbonise, we are ahead of the rest of the world. we are world in the study, think we're in the yale study, i think we're second denmark . why are in the yale study, i think we're sec going denmark . why are in the yale study, i think we're secgoing aheadienmark . why are in the yale study, i think we're secgoing ahead further. . why are in the yale study, i think we're sec going ahead further and hy are we going ahead further and faster than everybody else when we're putting costs on our economy and other people aren't putting the costs because there is a huge prize here? >> i mean, i mean, i'm reminded of the debates about industrial revolution the luddites. i'm revolution and the luddites. i'm not you're luddite not suggesting you're a luddite , i am saying , of course, but i am saying that huge industrial that there is a huge industrial opportunity and if we're at the forefront of it, we've got to stay at the forefront of it. there's no point saying, well, we're second, can back. we're second, we can hang back. and you're very advanced, and you're a very advanced, distinguished and you're a very advanced, distinguisiwritten couple of >> you've written a couple of excellent books. thank you. and so we talk the so if we talk about the luddites, the luddites were opposing market, opposing the free market, producing solutions made producing solutions that made the efficient. what the economy more efficient. what i'm government i'm opposing is government subsidy, government regulation, that energy act we that dreadful energy act we passed last week , which is passed last week, which is nothing cost on consumers. nothing but cost on consumers. so what the where you are

perhaps resembling the luddites in my view is that it was new technology essentially that they were they were opposing and i think that the net zero, the offshore wind farm, all of that, i'm all in favour of new technology. >> i'm not in favour of revolution, i'm not in favour of our industrial culture that we're doing this through subsidy and regulation, through and regulation, not through allowing and regulation, not through all(s01g and regulation, not through all(so it's a bit cheating. >> so it's a bit of cheating. >> so it's a bit of cheating. >> so it's a bit of cheating. >> so you have to you have to and you'll appreciate this. there is sort of infant there is a sort of infant industry argument where order industry argument where in order to start industry, to sort of kick start industry, you have to support in many you do have to support in many instances, industries . they instances, us industries. they don't just emerge. i mean sometimes they do, but sometimes they don't. but the government's record of picking winners is very agree. i agree. so. very yeah, i agree. i agree. so. so it's a fine line. you've got to you've got to draw between giving the beginning of an industry some support. that's why the head of why we're at the head of offshore just offshore wind that didn't just happen by the force of invisible hand, but at the same time, you've got to crowd in private investment. and that's we investment. and that's what we were department were doing in the department that i ran on the issue that you and i ran on the issue of china and net zero, is it

reasonable to say that we must have a good relationship with china because of net zero when it is behaving as it is? so i wouldn't have put it like that. >> okay. how would you put it? >> okay. how would you put it? >> so my own view on china is that we've to engage with that we've got to engage with them, through them, whether that's through trade diplomacy . we can't trade or diplomacy. we can't simply draw the drawbridge up and say, we're not going to talk to you, we're not going to engage with you because of all the terrible things you're doing. that, to me seems counter in what in what way do we do that? >> because the relationship we had with the soviet union in the 70s and 80s was one where there was engagement . there was, was some engagement. there was, but we weren't welcoming but that we weren't welcoming them to every event that we were holding we treated them very holding and we treated them very cautiously. germans in cautiously. but the germans in technology and it's come to handle that. >> but it's, you know, contrary to common belief, there was quite economic quite a lot of economic engagement, particularly on and on the gas and all of that. that was they quite well all was they were quite well all sort connect it. western sort of connect it. western germany with with the soviet

economic but should that be the model should we be treating china in the way we did the soviet union at that point ? i soviet union at that point? i think i think that's a fair analogy . but think i think that's a fair analogy. but at same time, analogy. but at the same time, china's role in the global economy is vast. and i think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot to say that we're not engaging with you, china, under any circumstances. and from a personal point of view, i remember in 2015 we were essentially rolling the red carpet out to china . and, you carpet out to china. and, you know, president xi went to that pub in oxfordshire. i can't remember which one it was with prime minister and at the time, and we were both backbenchers and we were both backbenchers and as a china hawk and i was seen as a china hawk and i was seen as a china hawk and now people think i'm a china dove. my views haven't changed. it's that the kind of the it's just that the kind of the perception of china has gone through the through 180, hasn't the behaviour change? behaviour of china change? >> china pre xi jinping >> wasn't china pre xi jinping much more in line with international norms and it's moved away from that. >> i think we overdo that. i think i think they they're much more consistent. i mean, they think in much longer terms than

we do. and i think they've had i mean, you lived in hong kong and i was very surprised to see i was in hong kong about a month ago. i hadn't been there for 18 years, completely different. completely different. and they've got strategy. they've got a strategy. >> we're going have to have >> we're going to have to have another on china. another conversation on china. kwasi, for kwasi, thank you so much for coming always. don't coming in. as always. don't forget me know you forget to let me know what you think. margaret gbnews.com think. male margaret gbnews.com coming up, there's the population crisis worsens. is it time pensions? time to scrap the pensions? triple are triple lock plus are you a vapour

your listening to gb news radio i >> welcome back. i'm still jacob rees—mogg and this is state of the nation . you've been getting the nation. you've been getting in touch with your thoughts , in touch with your thoughts, jill, this country is willing to cripple itself for net zero when other countries have no intention of doing so to protect their economies. and john, we need a referendum on energy need a referendum on the energy bill. let the people decide. we didn't for this. can do didn't vote for this. we can do plenty without killing the

people . for some people financially. for some people, prospect of retiring people, the prospect of retiring is one the most pleasant is one of the most pleasant ideasin is one of the most pleasant ideas in life. to be able to relax at the end of a long career and spend the days contentedly drinking cider in the garden whilst perusing one of pg wodehouse mellifluous tomes, yet such serenity, like most things, must make economic sense. the state pension is set to surpass £11,000 for the first time this spring, putting pressure on the exchequer . the pressure on the exchequer. the triple lock ensures that pensions increase per annum with the highest of wage growth. cpi inflation or 2.5. the triple lock is all well and good, but can we, the taxpayers, afford it? the cost of such rises is exorbitant as it adds to the current £110 billion a year. cost and is exacerbated by britain's demographics. number of pensioners is also rising further swelling the annual cost of pensions result ing in the government's pension bill being forecast to increase to £150 billion before the end of the decade. concomitantly the

country risks a future population crisis as birth rates fall, fewer children are being born and this means fewer workers in the workforce. there are exceptions , of course. are exceptions, of course. i hope not to be the only one to produce a hexad of children in all the while, fewer adults of working age are in employment . working age are in employment. but owing to long term sickness as the ratio of dependents to workers rise, the cost of pensions will only increase the situation is becoming, to borrow an environmental phrase, unsustainable . given the tricky unsustainable. given the tricky circumstances that we find ourselves in, we can no longer afford more than an inflation unked afford more than an inflation linked rise , and we will have to linked rise, and we will have to increase the retirement age as life expectancy increases , as we life expectancy increases, as we cannot afford the current pension structure . i'm really pension structure. i'm really pleased to be joined now by one of the most serious minded and impressive ministers in the tory, lib dem coalition. i say this in spite of the fact that he is in fact a lib dem. steve webb was for minister pensions. steve, thank you very much for joining me. you served with great distinction as a minister

for pensions during the coalition. do you think that the triple lock is still affordable ? >> 7. >>i 7- >> i do not ? >> i do not indefinitely, but certainly for some time more. and i think the first conundrum would be we say that the state pension as currently planned is unaffordable, yet it's simultanea true that we have one of the lowest state pensions in the developed world. so how come everybody else can afford a bigger state pension and we cant? bigger state pension and we can't? and i think the honest answer to that is we can an but there are plenty of other things we can do to deal with some of the issues you raise. so if the 2.5 million people on long term sickness prior to pension sickness prior to state pension age, we did far more to age, you know we did far more to prevent being that prevent them being in that situation. were paying situation. they were paying taxes than drawing taxes in rather than drawing benefits so on. there benefits out and so on. there are we could do are so many things we could do rather simply say can't rather than simply say we can't afford the pension and we'll start it by linking start diluting it by linking it back to inflation. >> what do think the >> so what do you think the balance is between increasing the pension amount and increasing age? increasing the pension age? because obviously if you pay it

to fewer pensioners, got to fewer pensioners, you've got more spread around more money to spread around amongst who are retired . amongst those who are retired. and both are happening at the same time. >> so as you know, controversially, but we levelled male and female pension age at 65. a few years ago, we went to 66. in a few years time in the next parliament, we'll go to 67. there's a debate about when we go to 68. so that's a given that pension ages have to rise. pension ages will have to rise. but need to make more but we need to make sure more people working up to and people are working up to and indeed some cases beyond indeed in some cases beyond pension are pension age, which we are failing but failing lamentably on. but actually real demographic actually the real demographic spending pressure is not the state pension , it's the health state pension, it's the health service. you look at the service. if you look at the obr's projections, yes , of obr's projections, yes, of course state pensions will rise , but the health service will rise almost exponentially, especially if we include social care. so much we can care. and there's so much we can do avoid those spending do to avoid those spending pressures, preventative measures and so on. and again, rather than cut the pension or reduce the increase in the pension, there are so many other things we could do better rather than target the pension. >> okay thank you very

>> okay. well, thank you very much, sorry. time so much, steve. sorry. time is so short, now need to go short, but we now need to go over my illustrious panel. over to my illustrious panel. former criminal former tory mp and criminal barrister hayes , and barristerjerry hayes, and author broadcaster michael author and broadcaster michael crick . michael, very crick. michael, it's very interesting. labour has not come out today and said we will stick to the triple lock. there seems to the triple lock. there seems to be a realisation that there is a degree of unaffordability of the constant increase . of the constant increase. >> well i think both parties are starting to think that they'll have to abandon the triple lock after the election and it'll be interesting to see what they promise ahead of the election. i suspect neither of them are going to be promising to keep it in the way they were at the last election. but my own view on this is, look, the key aspect we're talking about is we're talking about here is rising, with rising, rising in line with earnings and the idea of that is that the as as the country gets more prosperous, which it tends to over time that pensioners share in that as well . and if share in that as well. and if you say, okay well we're going

to get rid of that part of the triple lock, just be a double lock related to the pricing crisis or 2.5% then pensioners get left behind, particularly those pensioners , those for whom those pensioners, those for whom the state pension is, is basically their income and they did get left behind between 1979 and the implementation of the triple lock because there was a long period of inflation, any increases and pensioners income proportionate to average earnings fell quite sharply. >> that that's now been adjusted . and but it's a webb said you know we're still way behind the rest of the world now. >> i think it is right that the pension age i mean i ought to declare an interest here, really. i mean, i'm 66 next year and i will start getting my state pension. gerry presumably gets a state pension, but i do think right that it should think it's right that it should it should with age as we it should rise with age as we get older. as society . but i get older. as a society. but i think the danger is that, you know, all the measures the government makes are directed

towards poor people and it's , towards poor people and it's, you know, and that rich people in government, be they labour or conservative, are actually making the people who are already badly off worse off. and i just think that is the wrong thing to be targeting. i entirely agree. >> and if you really want to lose the next general election , lose the next general election, you interfere, you take money away from pensioners. now you can give all the arguments, the economic and i'm with you. i mean there's talk about the treasury. >> well, nobody is saying taking money away from pensioners . money away from pensioners. they're saying they will increase it in line with inflation, but not the higher of three. and you can keep the 2.5% and you can keep the inflation link. it's the earnings link as well. but if i promise you £100 a year and then i say, well, i'm going to give you £60 a year, i'm really taking it away, aren't i? >> and the perception look at the optics of it. just before a general election, when i think this election is on a on a knife edge, i don't think it's going to landslide that people to be the landslide that people say. i think there is a

reasonable slim, reasonable chance could win it. chance the tories could win it. whoever wins it is going to be a hung parliament. and we're hung parliament. and then we're going to decide who going to have to decide who we're to into we're going to go into government mind government with. but never mind all of that at the end of the day, it looks appalling. now it's be £11 billion it's going to be £11 billion a year extra, £11 billion a year extra, it could to £50 extra, and it could go up to £50 billion i think 2050 when billion in, i think 2050 when i'll be about 20, 30, 2030. you're quite right. when i'll be very old. well, i wouldn't be all that old, but i'd be fairly old. but i'm a pensioner. you'll be a pensioner soon. i paid my taxes . why should the poorest in taxes. why should the poorest in society have to suffer? >> because doesn't any government have to be realistic about much there is? about how much money there is? and steve webb's point about the nhs also true. we have nhs is also true. we have exponential demand in two areas really on the welfare and the health part of government expenditure, where we have a shrinking working population because of demographic ticks that are already there. we have a reluctance to have mass migration for reasons that make another discussion on and governments can't give promises

that don't all gel together , can they? >> well, i mean , part of those >> well, i mean, part of those problems can be dealt with by the fact that the pension age is gradually rising. perhaps it should be rising faster than it has. i certainly agree with that. and second, of course, you know, you you're a well off know, if you you're a well off pensioner, then your your state pensioner, then your your state pension taxed . and so the pension is taxed. and so the cost is less to the exchequer in in that case. but i think you've got to there are lots of pensioners who are living in real poverty who can't who can't get enough to, you know , the get enough to, you know, the energy prices, rising energy pnces energy prices, rising energy prices have given them, you know, their food is very basic. there's all sorts of things they cannot do because their income is so low. and what if you're proposing that your your income should be lower , even lower should be lower, even lower relative to the rest of the population in future , then population in future, then i just think that's going totally the wrong in the wrong direction and we need more equality, not less. it's not going to happen. >> you know that. we know >> you know that. we all know that. what jeremy hunt say? that. what did jeremy hunt say? be well, that's what the

be kind. well, that's what the tory should be doing, mr tory party should be doing, mr hayes has that it won't change. >> so thank you to my panel. coming are we heading for coming up, are we heading for the dark socialist days of the trade union controlled 1970s? plus plus, are we seeing a resurgence of temperance activism ? activism? >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on gb news. good evening. >> welcome to your latest gb news weather update from the met office . they'll be feeling much office. they'll be feeling much more like autumn across the uk to start tomorrow morning, but it'll stay cloudy and milder across the south—east. that's because the milder air is being more confined to the south—east as this front cleared and as this front has cleared and eastwards across the country throughout today. it's brought quite of heavy rain and quite a lot of heavy rain and that rain will continue across southeastern areas through this evening. continued risk of thunderstorms until around 8 or 9:00. but then behind that, we get a lot of cloud across the southeast, some rain and drizzle still the and

still over the hills and the coast, but areas seeing coast, but many areas seeing clear dry weather across the clear and dry weather across the rest the uk and it will feel rest of the uk and it will feel much chillier tonight than recently. frost is recently. a touch of frost is possible tomorrow morning in any sheltered . a good sheltered scottish glens. a good deal of sunshine to start the day the bulk of the day across the bulk of the country. however, the cloud will thicken through the day, particularly across the north—west and also elsewhere. we'll get some fair weather cloud up . but the cloud bubbling up. but in the northwest, some rain northwest, we'll see some rain arriving and the arriving as well. and the temperatures will be a little bit below average for the time of year here. elsewhere, much closer to the september average highs of about or 19 degrees. highs of about 18 or 19 degrees. now the rain pushes down from scotland into northern england on leaving parts scotland into northern england on northern leaving parts scotland into northern england on northern england| parts scotland into northern england on northern england and parts scotland into northern england on northern england and wales s of northern england and wales with a damp and cloudy day. elsewhere though drier with a risk of showers in the north and in south and east, it will in the south and east, it will be milder and drier once again. it stays warm across the south—east into the weekend with cooler, weather, more cooler, fresher weather, more restricted to the north. >> looks like things are heating up. boxed boilers proud sponsors

of weather on .

radio. >> welcome back . our man, jacob >> welcome back. our man, jacob rees—mogg. and you've been getting in touch with your views, carol, as a pensioner on a limited income and have paid tax all my life. i find it appalling that we may not keep the triple lock. it seems to me that britain wants to look after illegal immigrants in every country our country in the world of our foreign than its own foreign aid rather than its own pensioners. must confess pensioners. i must confess i also want to cut foreign aid , also want to cut foreign aid, john. government needs to also want to cut foreign aid, johra government needs to also want to cut foreign aid, johra grip government needs to also want to cut foreign aid, johra grip to vernment needs to also want to cut foreign aid, johra grip to even1ent needs to also want to cut foreign aid, johra grip to even think eeds to also want to cut foreign aid, johra grip to even think ofds to get a grip to even think of depriving pensioners of a decent increase their meagre increase in their meagre pension is they scrap the is ridiculous. if they scrap the folly hs2. i agree with that folly of hs2. i agree with that as well. and got a grip on the small crisis. would small boats crisis. we would be much better off. it was in the late 1970s when the labour prime minister james callaghan led britain into an era of darkness . rubbish wasn't being collected. rail workers refused to work some things never change

and the dead weren't buried in certain parts of the country . it certain parts of the country. it was period perhaps best was a period perhaps best embodied sun headline embodied by the sun headline crisis . what crisis? rail and crisis. what crisis? rail and lorry jobs. chaos and jim blames the press . lorry jobs. chaos and jim blames the press. this lorry jobs. chaos and jim blames the press . this was, of course, the press. this was, of course, all before the glorious years of margaret thatcher, who took on the union barons and unleashed britain's economy without tony blair as leader. the labour party hasn't won election since those days . so the question is those days. so the question is where does that party go from here? well, the labour party deputy leader angela rayner thinks she has the answer. more power to the unions addressing the trade union congress today, ms rayner announced labour's intention to undo conservative minimum services legislation within the first 100 days of government . who knew all this government. who knew all this time britain's woes could be solved by empowering the unions? well, i'm joined now by paul embery, a trade unionist and author. paul, always very good to have you on the program. thank you for joining. once

again, is reversing union reforms over the last few years really the way to grow the economy ? economy? >> well , i economy? >> well, i think it's the principle of the matter here. what angela rayner is talking aboutis what angela rayner is talking about is the labour government, as you know, jacob, repealing the minimum service levels act. and let's look at what that act does. essentially, it forces workers who have voted democratically in a ballot to withdraw their labour and it forces them to cross picket lines potentially, and it tells them no, despite your vote, we are not going to allow you to exercise your right to vote, your right to withdraw your laboun your right to withdraw your labour. we are going to compel you to cross a picket line which is invariably going to be manned by their own colleagues. and we're going to demand that you provide a service anyway. now, first of all, i have to say i think that that is unworkable . think that that is unworkable. as a lifelong trade unionist, i know and i'm sure you know as well, jacob, what it means in

terms of trade unionists crossing picket lines. it's seen as a cardinal sin in the trade union movement. and secondly, it's an attack on democracy. you know , you and i both voted for know, you and i both voted for brexit and we got quite angry when certain people suggested that that vote shouldn't be respected and should be overturned . absolutely. but, overturned. absolutely. but, paul overturned. absolutely. but, paul, isn't this proportionate between what we're asking for here, police aren't allowed here, the police aren't allowed to strike. >> the army isn't allowed to strike. and wasn't it noticeable that chris moss actually, when the army had to be on standby to take over from people who were striking , and that therefore to striking, and that therefore to provide a minimum service for essential activity is not that unreasonable . we already do it. unreasonable. we already do it. there's precedent for it. >> well , look, the police >> well, look, the police doesn't have a trade union. it has a federation. the army isn't unionised. and we know the reasons for that. and what we're talking about here is members who are legitimately workers , who are legitimately workers, who are legitimately workers, who are legitimately members of trade unions and take part in a trade unions and take part in a trade unions and take part in a trade union ballot for

industrial action in a way that the police and army are not allowed to do. and then , despite allowed to do. and then, despite their vote, being told no, hang on a second, you might have voted to take strike action, but we government are going we as the government are going to that vote we're to subvert that vote and we're going compel you to cross going to compel you to cross picket lines anyway. if you accept difference, if you accept it's reasonable for the it's reasonable role for the police the to not police and the army to not strike, isn't it also reasonable to extend that other to extend that to other essential to extend that to other ess it'sal to extend that to other ess it's not a fundamental breach >> it's not a fundamental breach of but that's not of democracy, but that's not what's happening. >> jacob, as you well know, there isn't here a legislation saying that the fire service, the health service, the education sector should not be allowed to strike. that's not the debate. the debate is yes, they are trade unionists. yes, they are trade unionists. yes, they are trade unionists. yes, they are entitled to withdraw their labour and if they vote for it, we as the government are going to stop them from doing it anyway. that's the big difference between between anyway. that's the big differerhappeningn between anyway. that's the big differerhappening now ween anyway. that's the big differerhappening now in�*en anyway. that's the big differerhappening now in terms of what's happening now in terms of fire health service, fire service, health service, education service and the police and army. this is and the army. this is a fundamental attack on democracy that's key point. that's the key point. >> thank you very much for >> well, thank you very much for joining hope to see you

joining me and hope to see you in the studio again soon. now back to my panel, former tory mp and criminal barrister gerry hayes and the author and broadcaster . broadcaster michael crick. gerry, how far is it reasonable to go in a democracy to prevent people from striking? well let's just think what margaret thatcher did . thatcher did. >> she's accused of bashing the unions . unions. >> what she did was democratise the unions because michael and i remember the days there'd be people a car park, usually people in a car park, usually a ford car park or a red robbo would say, hands up, don't strike. and that would be it. and she says, no, you've got to have a vote and there's going to be a 50% threshold. well, angela rayner today that 50% rayner has said today that 50% threshold will all go. now that is very serious. does it mean flying pickets will go? will we go back to the days of so many days lost to productivity? it is not good democracy should remain within the trade unions and the trade unions who have always supported should do the most important thing, and that is look after the welfare of their

workers and not play politics. >> and the other thing she did was, of course, get rid of the closed shop. so it it freed up individual workers against the trade union that was trying to control them . is reversing any control them. is reversing any of that fair? is it right to go to this next step and reduce the minimum services bill? >> i let's you and i believe in free markets and i think you believe like i do in free collective bargaining now, the whole balance between employers and employees has gone far too far in favour of the employers. and for the last 15 years, most of the country hasn't had a pay rise at all. where the rich company directors , people at the company directors, people at the top there pay has continued shooting up the whole balance is wrong and if you and one thing that trade unions have had is this ability to withdraw their laboun this ability to withdraw their labour. now if you say, oh well , we're not going to allow you to withdraw your labour any more in certain circumstances, then you're upsetting this whole idea

of free collective bargaining and that and the balance has gone wrong. now i don't actually think that a labour government will do much. labour's always making promises. is she freelancing then? then water? i don't think she's freelancing , don't think she's freelancing, but i'm sure that there'll be watered down before there's any legislation. won't be. legislation. they won't be. it'll small beer, but it'll be pretty small beer, but frankly, redresses frankly, anything that redresses the balance between the between organised labour, between workers and employers is a good thing. and i say that as a trade unionist myself, a member of the national union of journalists. >> okay, but yeah, dare i say, aren't you extraordinarily out of date that when you go back to the 1970s, there were small numbers of very big. are not numbers of very big. we are not going the 1970s. going back to the 1970s. >> the it was a different hold on the balance there between employee fees and employers was that employers took on thousands, tens of thousands of people. >> now so many more people work in small firms. there is an extremely tight labour market, which is why wages have been rising recently and that that balance has changed out of all

recognition . the reason there recognition. the reason there haven't been wage rises is because productivity hasn't increased, been increased, there hasn't been extra money to pay to people. it's because it's because they haven't had the bargaining power, the and the threat of strike action is not bargaining, not been. >> and also large parts of the economy are no longer unionised . and the balance between the two sides is much , much more in two sides is much, much more in yourin two sides is much, much more in your in your direction. >> it's much more straightforward than this economically there is a economically that there is a tight labour market and therefore, being therefore, if you're not being paid company you paid enough by company a, you get company b, you don't need get a company b, you don't need to withdraw your labour by going on your on strike. you withdraw your labour to a new company labour and go to a new company that public sector that is, it's the public sector which tends to go on strike and where sector, yes, public where public sector, yes, public sector actually better sector have actually done better than private sector. sector have actually done better tha and private sector. sector have actually done better tha and that'ste sector. sector have actually done better tha and that'ste sectora that's >> and that's a that's a that's a real, real problem. the other thing that angela rayner said, which think is a is terrible which i think is a is a terrible mistake, she says we'll get rid of zero hour contracts. the fact is a lot of people, according to the opinion polls, rather like zero contracts because it's zero as contracts because it's flexible for them so that would

be a mistake. this is really all moving from a for a sort of vague tory factory, very vague . vague tory factory, very vague. tory. oh, well, well, no. >> true. a true tory. >> true. a true tory. >> i think the zero hours contracts is one of those things will probably get forgotten under labour. councils use people on zero hours contracts and there are all sorts of terrible things that go on under zero hours contracts. but the trouble is, working out how trouble is, is working out how you're to with those you're going to deal with those problems. same time as problems. at the same time as you you benefit from the you as you benefit from the advantages. >> one thing she said that i did agree with, and is giving agree with, and that is giving people right to unionise people the right to unionise because they've got the right to unionise. but people like amazon have been fiddling around the have been fiddling around on the edges stopping people edges and stopping people joining really joining unions. it's really important that people have the opportunity to join unions. important that people have the oppl rtunity to join unions. important that people have the oppl don't( to join unions. important that people have the oppl don't think in unions. important that people have the oppl don't think it unions. important that people have the oppl don't think it should. important that people have the oppl don't think it should be >> i don't think it should be compulsory though, for firms to give recognition. give union recognition. it is under law, that was under current law, but that was a change of blair against the laws we left in 1997. >> we should have the right to vote. vote yes. you've got >> people vote yes. you've got the not recognise committee.

the 19 not recognise committee. you trade you don't recognise trade unionists in your company? >> i'm longer involved. well unionists in your company? >> i'ryou longer involved. well unionists in your company? >> i'ryou were,3r involved. well unionists in your company? >> i'ryou were, i involved. well unionists in your company? >> i'ryou were, i can'tved. well unionists in your company? >> i'ryou were, i can't imagine. when you were, i can't imagine you it wasn't it wasn't a you did. it wasn't it wasn't a particular issue in investment management company. particular issue in investment management company . well thank management company. well thank you very much to brilliant you very much to my brilliant panel who i hope to see next panel who i hope to see you next week. coming a viper will be week. coming up, a viper will be joining the studio joining me live in the studio

welcome back. i continue to identify as jacob rees—mogg and this is state of the nation. you've been getting in touch with your mail, moggs. camilla says have role to play says unions have a role to play in democracy , but they have in a democracy, but they have abused their decades abused their remit for decades and is getting worse. not only interfering lives interfering with the lives of ordinary people, but ruining the economy to inflation. economy and adding to inflation. well, agree, it seems well, i agree, camilla. it seems to precisely the to me this is precisely the wrong to boost union power wrong time to boost union power and merlin. has a wizard and merlin. merlin has a wizard idea. vaping is air pollution. khan should charge for vaping per person. £12.50 every day. now i'm sorry to disappoint you.

there are no snakes in the studio. when i said viper , of studio. when i said viper, of course i meant to say viper. it emerged today that the government is set to ban dispose of all vaping products in a bid to protect children from addictive habits and ward off the scourge of littering . the the scourge of littering. the decision further perpetuates the question what ever happened to personal choice ? has the job of personal choice? has the job of parents wholly subsumed parents been wholly subsumed into the provision of the state? will real will the ban make any real difference all to children's difference at all to children's health? well i'm now joined by a famous vapour, mark littlewood, who happens to be the director general of the institute of economic affairs. mark, first of all, thank you very much for having me with you, jacob. i'm quite impressed that you're a vapour you were the last vapour because you were the last smoker fairly smoker standing until fairly recently, much . recently, pretty much. >> think i'm part of the >> and i think i'm part of the success story of this new science. smoked more than science. i smoked more than a packet cigarettes day for packet of cigarettes a day for more than 30 years. i tried to give up a few times, failed . give up a few times, failed. it's only when these new products came to the market that i was ultimately able to get off

cigarettes altogether for. so that's great for me. adds enormously to my life expectancy andindeed enormously to my life expectancy and indeed my day to day health. fantastic news. >> tell me about that part of it. what does it do for your life expectancy? what does it do for your daily? well, i think it's right. >> i mean, smokers run a very much increased risk of cancer and heart disease as but even if you avoid those, i was sort of waking up with a hacking cough every morning, unpleasant, not life threatening . since i quit life threatening. since i quit cigarettes, that has gone all together. so i now use vaping devices and another device which is called a heat not burn device. it has tobacco in it, but it doesn't combust . and the but it doesn't combust. and the real problem, the danger for smokers isn't the nicotine . smokers isn't the nicotine. that's what hooks you. it's the combustion. that's what kills you. yes. so the nicotine hooks you. >> nicotine is like caffeine. it's addictive. but in and of itself, it isn't particularly dangerous, i think. >> not dangerous really at all.

possibly even good for you in some ways. >> actually, right now , i do >> actually, right now, i do need to be clear. the i get some support from the tobacco industry. >> we've historically we've been supported by not just the back of the nicotine industry as well. i think it would be kwarteng just so that people know important know because it's important to get on the record get that on on the record disposable vapes. >> disposable vapes >> do you use disposable vapes or have. or do you have. >> i've got one with me now, jacob, which i'm itching to puff away soon i leave your away on as soon as i leave your studio. so this is a disposable vape. this is what the government is wanting to ban. they about depending on they cost about depending on where about £5 where you buy them from about £5 each about the equivalent to each are about the equivalent to a packet of cigarettes . so for a packet of cigarettes. so for me, this would last me about a day. and the argument goes that these are sort of clearly aimed at kids and therefore they need to be banned and there's a littering problem. >> you're very useful. so >> well, you're very useful. so i mean, thinking of you as a kid, but i still behave like kid. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> yeah, but is it more attractive to children? is it at £5 something you think £5 something that you think children will easily be able to. well, a news now. well, let's look a news now. >> let's look at the statistics

here. jacob and let's try to make that the isn't make sure that the best isn't the enemy the good. it the enemy of the good. it is true that see kids puffing true that you see kids puffing away sort of things , away on these sort of things, you know, outside the school playground. but when playground. and but back when i was teenager , you would have was a teenager, you would have seen smoking cigarettes. so seen them smoking cigarettes. so the the percentage of the number the percentage of secondary school pupils who are vaping regularly and have never smoked is 0.0. 9. so it's probably even true for your 14 or 15 year old that they probably dabbled with cigarettes and have now moved to this device which , you know, i'm not device which, you know, i'm not advocating as the most perfect healthy lifestyle decision . but healthy lifestyle decision. but given a choice , you would prefer given a choice, you would prefer kids to be on the vapes rather than on the cigarettes. >> and in reality, they're going to do something that children are going to break the rules because they're children. and that's children do. sure that's what children do. sure >> and other argument, >> and the other argument, which i it happens i consider erroneous, it happens to be that this one that i brought your studio a brought into your studio is a cola flavour . cola flavour. >> okay. now, isn't that and i'm

astonished you're having a cola flavour. why? >> i like those. >> i like those. >> because you're a gentleman and you're far too old. >> why am i far too old to like ridiculous colas for children? isn't banana flavour. is that isn't it banana flavour. is that right ? right? >> disgusting. >> disgusting. >> i hate only children are allowed to eat bananas. are they? interesting they? i mean, the interesting thing is that thing about the flavours is that the suggests they the evidence suggests they actually help adult smokers quit because if you get very used to i mean, i found this in quitting as well. if you get very used to as well. if you get very used to a tobacco taste, you're sort of hooked on that taste. if you then segue to a different product, which could be bananas, cola, bubble gum, god cola, vanilla bubble gum, god knows what else start to get knows what else you start to get used to that. and after a year or this would be i now find or so, this would be i now find cigarette repulsive cigarette smoke quite repulsive , whereas i used to absolutely love it. i've picked up on love it. so i've picked up on the flavours that's helped me change my habit. >> your cigarette smoke point is a you and a really important one. you and i certainly i know i was against the ban on indoor smoking. i've always been in favour of liberty, but actually , weren't

liberty, but actually, weren't we wrong? isn't it much nicer that you go to a restaurant or a bar and when you leave, particularly as a non smoker, you don't stink of other people's cigarettes smoke? you don't stink of other peoyous cigarettes smoke? you don't stink of other peoyou knowrettes smoke? you don't stink of other peoyou know what smoke? you don't stink of other peoyou know what i smoke? you don't stink of other peoyou know what i thinkze? you don't stink of other peoyou know what i think if’ you don't stink of other peoyou know what i think if you >> you know what i think if you reverse now , you would reverse the ban now, you would not have every single pub like it was before the smoking ban. what i think is a little unfair is that what is it, 13, 14% of the adult population smoke in the adult population smoke in the united kingdom. there is not one pub in the entirety of the united kingdom that caters for them. so how about this for an idea , a local council in their idea, a local council in their area? if there are, say, 100 pubs, could give for a fee to or three pubs a licence to allow smoking , if you're very worried smoking, if you're very worried about your jacket smelling of stale smoke, don't go to one of those 2 or 3 pubs. go to one of the other 97. but i'm all in favour of that choice. but isn't the reason it's come down to 13% partly because they can't smoke in pubs and that therefore this has helped stop something that in pubs and that therefore this héactuallyi stop something that in pubs and that therefore this he actually fundamentallyg that is actually fundamentally dangerous? is actually fundamentally danger

clamping and clamping down on smoking and smoking falling. but smoking rates falling. but i don't that's causal . i don't think that's causal. i actually think that it's as more and information come to and more information has come to light health light about the health risks of smoking, more people smoking, more and more people have chosen avoid it. this have chosen to avoid it. this isn't thanks to government schemes. thanks to schemes. this is thanks to individuals realising the facts individuals realising the facts in front of them. >> and do you think we're in the same position vaping as we same position with vaping as we were with cigarettes in the 19505? were with cigarettes in the 1950s? smoking 1950s? my father took up smoking because chancellor because a labour chancellor put the the budget and the price up in the budget and he wasn't going to be told to what do by a labour chancellor before known be before it was known to be dangerous. yeah. we now in dangerous. yeah. are we now in that with vaping that position with vaping that we don't enough and we don't know enough and shouldn't therefore be shouldn't we therefore be cautious, particularly around children? your children? and to go to your flavoured vapes? yes, they do children? and to go to your flavou really 3es? yes, they do children? and to go to your flavou really dodgy. s, they do children? and to go to your flavou really dodgy. okayy do sound really dodgy. okay >> so let's tackle the children thing under eighteens thing first. it under eighteens should be to access should not be able to access these products , but that's not these products, but that's not a reason for banning them . we do reason for banning them. we do not alcohol even though some not ban alcohol even though some under eighteens access it . we do under eighteens access it. we do not 18 certificate movies , not ban 18 certificate movies, even though some of the iaea calls a ban on alcohol. we calls for a ban on alcohol. we don't want to ban these things, enforce kids can't

enforce the rules so kids can't get to enforce the rules properly, so kids can't get them. the solution. don't them. that's the solution. don't ban the board to deal ban it across the board to deal not a non problem, but not only with a non problem, but i one which actually i think one which is actually a health solution in this is health, health risk health, a health risk minimisation these minimisation with these fantastic new products. well that part of political that was a part of political broadcast vaping society broadcast by the vaping society , thank very much. , but thank you very much. >> very good have at >> marks very good to have at least freedom loving person least one freedom loving person come on the programme. that's all from me. next, all from me. up next, it's professor dan , professor daniel wootton, dan, what's up on your programme? big line up. tonight we have >> big line up. tonight we have nigel bower , richard nigel farage, tom bower, richard tice and also we're debating top gear and whether the bbc is going to have to exit because of its safety record . so one of the its safety record. so one of the former presenters of the show will be here. oh, okay. >> well, that sounds extremely interesting. you'll be talking about famous english about the famous english cricketer, flintoff, is cricketer, mr flintoff, who is a great hero to many of for the great hero to many of us for the 2005 that's all from me. 2005 ashes. that's all from me. it's coming up after the weather . i'll be back tomorrow at 8:00. i'm jacob rees—mogg. this has

been state of the nation. do you need me to tell you that the weather somerset be weather in somerset will be absolutely glorious tomorrow? a perfect day ? perfect september day? >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update from the met office. now i'll be feeling much more like autumn across the uk to start tomorrow morning, but it'll stay cloudy and milder across the south—east. that's because the milder air is being more confined to the south—east as this front has cleared eastwards across the country throughout today. it's brought quite a lot of heavy rain rain will of heavy rain and that rain will continue across southeastern areas through this evening, continue the risk of thunderstorms until around 8 or 9:00. but then behind that, we get a lot of cloud across the southeast. some rain and drizzle still over the hills and the coast. many areas seeing coast. but many areas seeing clear dry weather the clear and dry weather across the rest of uk and feel rest of the uk and it will feel much chillier tonight than recently. a touch of frost is

possible tomorrow any possible tomorrow morning in any sheltered scottish glens. a good deal sunshine to start the deal of sunshine to start the day across the bulk of the country. however, the cloud will thicken through the day, particularly across the north—west also elsewhere . north—west and also elsewhere. we'll some fair weather we'll get some fair weather cloud up . but we'll get some fair weather cloud up. but in we'll get some fair weather cloud up . but in the cloud bubbling up. but in the northwest, see rain northwest, we'll see some rain arriving as well. and the temperatures will be a little bit below average for time temperatures will be a little bityear)w average for time temperatures will be a little bityear here. zrage for time temperatures will be a little bityear here. elsewhere, time temperatures will be a little bityear here. elsewhere, much of year here. elsewhere, much closer to september average closer to the september average , highs of about 18 or 19 degrees. now, the rain pushes down from scotland into northern england leaving england on thursday, leaving many of northern england many parts of northern england and wales with damp and cloudy and wales with a damp and cloudy day. elsewhere, though, drier with of showers in the with a risk of showers in the north and in the south and east, it will be milder and drier once again. stays warm across again. it stays warm across the south—east with south—east into the weekend with cooler, fresher weather, more restricted to the north. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers, proud sponsors of weather on

gb news, no spin , no bias, no censorship i >> -- >> i'm dan wootton. tonight french police officers filmed partying the night away in calais , the same week that over calais, the same week that over 2000 illegal migrants touched down on british shores , but down on british shores, but absolutely nothing to celebrate for uk taxpayers. who is shelling out £480 million on this joke of a security operation across the channel. so when will we stop relying on mucky macron and start turning back the boats? i'll call for both of those things to happen immediately in my digest next. then my superstar panel weigh in. and tonight i'm joined by esther mcvey. kelvin robinson and rebecca reid, plus nigel farage labels this groundhog day for the government as i ask him why rishi sunak is still refusing to take definitive action on our country's borders. elsewhere, cricketing legend freddie flintoff is seen in pubuc freddie flintoff is seen in public for the first time since

his near fatal