well. good morning and welcome to sunday with michael portillo. >> please join me for two hours of arts, culture, politics and ethical debate. completing your morning and inaugurating your afternoon . the football is afternoon. the football is kicking off in sydney and we will follow the score between england and spain to begin this houn england and spain to begin this hour, we debate whether nowadays we can expect leaders to take responsibility . party responsibility. party politicians have often been forced out of office in recent years, but public servants do not seem to be accountable for failure . often leads to failure. often leads to promotion, but is anyone ever sacked? are they justified to cling on and reap the rewards of a new posting and a generous pension in recent weeks, red wall tory mps have been amongst those concerned , urging the those concerned, urging the prime minister to rethink the so—called headlong rush to meet net zero targets by 2050. i'll be joined by the conservative member of parliament for dudley

north, marco longhi, to hear his thoughts . earlier this week, the thoughts. earlier this week, the former uk ambassador to afghanistan , laurie bristow, afghanistan, laurie bristow, suggested that britain has an obugafion suggested that britain has an obligation to help certain afghan refugees . i'll be joined afghan refugees. i'll be joined by sir william patey, another former ambassador to afghanistan, to hear whether he agrees . later this hour, bradley agrees. later this hour, bradley cooper has faced backlash this week for wearing a prosthetic nose playing the composer and conductor leonard bernstein , in conductor leonard bernstein, in a new biographical movie . should a new biographical movie. should actors be banned from playing people whom they do not resemble physically or ethnically? and stefan kyrgios will be on hand to share the latest news from the world of theatre. afternoon. we'll be joined by the lyricist extraordinaire , sir tim rice. as extraordinaire, sir tim rice. as he utters his thoughts on the latest disney remake and the backlash that it has received before its release. and there will be a visit from the king of rock and roll as we look at elvis presley memorabilia.

difficult word. but before all that, here are your latest headunes that, here are your latest headlines with tamsin roberts . headlines with tamsin roberts. >> michael, thanks very much. good morning from the gb newsroom. it's 11:02. well england has just kicked off against spain, hoping to make history in the women's world cup final in sydney. well, let's go straight live to gb news, england, attacking the manager stadium in bristol. jeff tell us, what's the atmosphere like ? us, what's the atmosphere like? can you hear us? in fact, it's to going be a really tight game. >> but i think that maybe i can hold my ear. >> yes, it's a fantastic atmosphere. really good already. we're going to be going for about a minute and the crowd is really whipping up. they've all enjoyed hour of illegal drinking. >> don't forget , licencing laws >> don't forget, licencing laws don't kick in until 11. but the police said they turn a blind oh, sorry. >> we couldn't really hear you very well there. we're just to

going leave you, jeff, for the moment as jeff was just saying, the kick off just just kicked off england against spain. so this is the live picture in box park. sarina wiegman side looking to win the competition for the first time. pretty quiet there compared to where geoff is all on tenterhooks. england, of course , hasn't lifted the cup course, hasn't lifted the cup since the men claimed victory in 1966. well, lots of best wishes coming in for the team. king charles has told the lionesses to roar to victory . the prime to roar to victory. the prime minister also saying the whole nafion minister also saying the whole nation is rooting for them. well, that they're the live picture from sydney. also looking pretty quiet there. all the fans inside, of course, in the fans inside, of course, in the first two minutes of that match. and of course, we will be keeping a close eye on that. good luck to the lionesses in other news, the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in

the wake of lucy letby conviction . the bma says it's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consultants who repeatedly raised concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to . letby, who was listened to. letby, who was found guilty of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others, has indicated she won't attend her sentencing tomorrow. former justice secretary robert buckland says she should be forced to listen . forced to listen. >> my suggestion have been to make sure that there was a lively beamed into the cell either sound or sound and pictures to ensure that letby had nowhere to hide and that she, in effect, has to listen to what the judge is saying about the case and most importantly, the case and most importantly, the victim personal statements. >> those impact statements that will really bring home, i think, to the wider world the appalling, devastating impact of the loss of these innocent children , these innocent babies children, these innocent babies have had upon dozens of families i >> -- >>a50 >> a 50 year old man will appear

in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents likely to be useful to terrorists . it's after the terrorists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . police believe the mistake. police believe the information is now in the hands of dissident republicans as a a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it'll be based on the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launched the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele, amy winehouse and tom holland. schools minister nick gibb says it's an exciting project . project. >> we wanted young people to have the same opportunities in the north of england as they have in the brit school in south london without having to travel all way south. so this a all the way south. so this is a school to 19 year olds school for 516 to 19 year olds specialising in drama dance . the specialising in drama dance. the technical side of and singing and the technical side of theatre production as well. so it's very exciting project. it

should be open in 3 or 4 years time . time. >> well, this is gb news across the uk on tv and your car on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news news. now, though, it's back to michael . michael. >> thank you tamzin are the lead the days of leaders taking responsibility over the united states president harry truman famously had a placard on his desk which said the buck stops here. however, rarely do we see resignation from senior public servants when a scandal has occurred. ministers are frequently forced from office, but they rarely tender their resignation for failure. the chief constable of the northern ireland police service is the latest public servant. asked by the media to consider his position after a mass data leak of personal information of his officers put them in mortal danger from dissident republicans should he take responsibility? how about the

managers at the countess of chester hospital who overruled doctors who'd raised the alarm about baby deaths and forced consultants to apologise to the mass murderer lucy letby actions which it seems allowed her to go on killing. what consequences have they faced or will they face? well joining me now to discuss this is aubrey allegretto, senior political respondent for the guardian, visiting professor of forecasting and innovation at london's southbank university. james woodhouse , and political james woodhouse, and political commentator matthew stadlen . commentator matthew stadlen. aubrey, let me begin with you . aubrey, let me begin with you. is there is there something wrong in the system at the moment? do you do you feel that there is an issue here that needs looking at? >> well, strictly in the political realm , i think it's political realm, i think it's fair to say that politicians in recent years feel that they are under a level of scrutiny and subject to such sort of stringent accountability that they feel every sort of tiny mistake, every cough and spit is kind of pored over. and there are great sort of media furore

is made out of the sort of the smallest errors. and so i think there's an attempt among some politicians to sort of redress the balance of accountability, tip the scales slightly. we saw under johnson's leadership under boris johnson's leadership that he took a much different approach enforced the approach to how he enforced the ministerial code previously, something if you were something which, if you were found have broken, you were found to have broken, you were expected to tender your resignation. had resignation. and that's had a sort down effect, sort of trickle down effect, even days boris even though the days of boris johnson now long gone, it johnson are now long gone, it means there is a sort of means that there is a sort of shadow a change in the shadow and a change in the implementation public implementation of how public servants, servants servants, senior public servants are to behave if are expected to behave if they've found or accused of they've been found or accused of committing wrongdoing . committing wrongdoing. >> an example that >> matt that's an example that came to my mind, sir philip barton, head of the foreign office who was in charge during the withdrawal from afghanistan , was subsequently heavily criticised by a house of commons select committee on foreign affairs select committee, which asked him to consider his position. i don't know whether he did consider his position, but but didn't go . i mean, but he but he didn't go. i mean, the failures that were talked aboutin the failures that were talked

about in that case were very clear. certainly in the view of the committee and does a public servant ever resign ? servant ever resign? >> well, you would hope so . but >> well, you would hope so. but i think a good example probably should be set by politicians , should be set by politicians, shouldn't it? and while kabul was falling, dominic raab was on holiday. now, he said , i think holiday. now, he said, i think that he was working very hard. but how hard can you really work when you're in greece or wherever he is? you think of the current home secretary suella braverman. i mean, she resigned one week and less than a week later she was reinstated. i would argue , for highly cynical would argue, for highly cynical reasons by our now prime minister, rishi sunak. reasons by our now prime minister, rishi sunak . so minister, rishi sunak. so politicians should lead, i think are very interested in your point that you made earlier about the heavy scrutiny that is on politicians now because of social media and i'd be interested to know from you, michael, whether you think that scrutiny has gone up since you were a minister yourself . were a minister yourself. >> well, i will answer your question . no, i rather doubt question. no, i rather doubt whether it's grown up. i should think it's pretty much the same.

i mean, the media, of course, has changed enormous the has changed enormous since the days office, days when i was in office, because there's so much social media. in days we media. but in those days we already 24 hour media. i already had 24 hour media. i felt under constant stress from media scrutiny. however i did think that for the system to work properly, i had to have in my mind whenever i made a statement, you know, what would this look like on the front page of a newspaper? how would i defend this in the house of commons? and those i think, are two tremendous democrat disciplines . so what i'm asking disciplines. so what i'm asking really is can a system work? well where there are democratic disciplines on the responsible politicians, but that civil servants don't seem to be accountable for their actions? >> i would just say one very quick thing on that. it's a really difficult thing . no one really difficult thing. no one wants to sit on the fence, but you absolutely want the disinfectant of an inquiring media. but at the same time, do we really want trial by media? so, for example, in the horrific

case of this hospital in in cheshire, i want very much to know how we move from a position of consultants being asked to apologise to someone who turned out to be a mass murderer, to then an arrest. and that conviction . and instinctively, conviction. and instinctively, i think we all think this looks very, very bad. and yet we are about to have an inquiry. very, very bad. and yet we are about to have an inquiry . and it about to have an inquiry. and it took about ten months, didn't it, for this nurse to be convicted of murder. so it was a highly complicated case and therefore rushing to judgement on the management i think can be tricky. on the management i think can be tncky.even on the management i think can be tricky. even though it's very tempting . tempting. >> a very good point. i'm sure james come in with a comment at this point. what how do you think the public servants view this issue? i mean, i rather suspect that they feel that they are under enormous stress because at the very least they might be asked to appear before a house of commons committee as the public servants i mentioned a moment were . so they may

a moment ago were. so they may not lose their jobs , but it's not lose their jobs, but it's not lose their jobs, but it's not it's not necessarily an easy experience to go through . experience to go through. appearing of a house appearing in front of a house commons committee and face commons committee and to face the criticism that may then arise. i think that's far too complacent. >> michael, if you'll forgive me, because, you know , we're not me, because, you know, we're not worried we shouldn't worried about we shouldn't be worried about we shouldn't be worried feelings. we worried about their feelings. we should about the should be worried about the parents lost babies . you parents who lost babies. you know, in the case of the hospital. and don't want hospital. and we don't want trial by media. we do need due process. that's entirely right . process. that's entirely right. but i think public servants are not alone in the complete abdication of responsibility. that's going on in this country. can you tell me, michael or matthew or aubrey, who from arconic or latex or kingspan surrounding the grenfell disaster has resigned, saying i messed up . disaster has resigned, saying i messed up. i'm disaster has resigned, saying i messed up . i'm sorry, who has messed up. i'm sorry, who has done that at fujitsu? who suppued done that at fujitsu? who supplied the computer software for the post offices? who has done that at oxfam and many ngos

. oxfam has presided over abuse in the democratic republic of congo, in haiti, and nobody has resigned. nobody resigns in the private sector or in ngos or among politicians or among pubuc among politicians or among public servants , because public servants, because nobody's interested in responsibility anymore. we need a new kind of rearmament morally to try to get people in public office and elsewhere who will carry the can when mistakes are made. and that's something we've really lost in this country. >> well, what about that is a thesis that it isn't just about pubuc thesis that it isn't just about public servants, it's a very broad condition affecting british society , including british society, including british society, including british business. >> yeah, i was speaking to one sort of prominent conservative recently who said they wanted to start a campaign to bring back the of shame because the concept of shame because they feel that people they didn't feel that people were sort of led morally and wanted to sort of do the right thing in the event that they sort of should fall on their sword but refuse to do so. i think it can be tempting sometimes to see a sort of personnel change as as kind of

personnel change as as a kind of immediate to a problem to immediate fix to a problem to take out of a story take the heat out of a story sometimes that is absolutely the right and sometimes right thing to do and sometimes it's structural. and right thing to do and sometimes it's would structural. and right thing to do and sometimes it's would thinktructural. and right thing to do and sometimes it's would think that ural. and right thing to do and sometimes it's would think that actuallyi you would think that actually what of the public what some members of the public would like in the broadest sense, for people get sense, is for people to get focussed on solving the problem rather than removing somebody at the and then potentially the top and then potentially bringing somebody else in that's quite aligned them quite closely aligned to them and fixing the and not really fixing the structural issues that caused the in first place. structural issues that caused the you're 1 first place. structural issues that caused the you're talking st place. unless you're talking about somebody who very directly somebody who is very directly responsible happened. responsible for what's happened. >> a question you, >> let me put a question to you, matthew. might be matthew. people might be attracted horror of trial attracted to the horror of trial by the media because they don't think anything is going to think anything else is going to produce i mean, produce any results. i mean, here we are discussing whether there be public inquiry there will be a public inquiry or of inquiry into the or any sort of inquiry into the lucy letby case. experience lucy letby case. our experience is would take many, is that this would take many, many and at the end all many years and at the end all the responsible would say the people responsible would say lessons but lessons have been learned. but of lessons never are of course lessons never are learned. mean, you know, there learned. i mean, you know, there are enough similarities here with shipman case for with the harold shipman case for one's alarm bells to have been sounded . so it just is the sounded. so it just is the feeling that there never is

going to be a satisfactory remedy, certainly within the pubuc remedy, certainly within the public sector. remedy, certainly within the public sector . james says even public sector. james says even within the broader british economy , yeah, i'm absolutely economy, yeah, i'm absolutely not against the media digging and digging very hard. >> and when it finds facts to report those facts and we can then make our judgements on it, then make ourjudgements on it, it's just really difficult to know that the facts have always been reported accurately . and so been reported accurately. and so i think a degree of caution is needed. but we're all blowers needed. but we're all blowers need to be protected. we really need to be protected. we really need to be protected. we really need to have a robust system, perhaps more robust than we already have, to make sure that people can blow the whistle within organisations and also outside of organisations. that doesn't mean that some people won't have a grudge and some people might not use that for their own nefarious means. but i really think whistle blowers where we can should be protected . i think aubrey made a really interesting point about how direct research possibility is. i mean, should this chief police

officer in the northern ireland police service resign for something that happened way, way , way, way below his pay grade? that seems to have been a mistake as far as we know. and i think there is an argument for him to resign , not because he is him to resign, not because he is as it were, personally responsible , but he is responsible, but he is institutionally responsible . and institutionally responsible. and if people in that level of high office do resign, it sets a phenomenally good example. and it means that the next chief of police there will do absolutely everything he or she can to run the tightest ship possible, which makes that sort of disastrous leak into the public domain less likely. >> james stadlen talks about ensuring that whistleblowers are protected. but what we know is that whistleblowers are absolutely exposed and bullied and hounded. and one case after another comes up with the same. and one of the problems i have with an inquiry, whether public or not, is that it won't say what i think it needs to say, which is that sort of which is that the sort of management have certainly in

management we have certainly in this national health this case the national health service wholly inappropriate service is wholly inappropriate to who are paid to have managers who are paid vast salaries , whose main vast salaries, whose main fixation seems to be protecting against reputational damage and who can overrule doctors. this just seems to me into surely the wrong sort of management. no pubuc wrong sort of management. no public inquiry is going to tell you that. it will just say there are lessons to be learned and everyone will say yes, we learn the lessons. discuss. >> well, i think about three months ago i called on twitter for abolition of nhs for the abolition of nhs trusts. i think my encounters with them, the salaries that they're paid, the salaries that they're paid, the complacency that they enjoy, the complacency that they enjoy, the lack of regulation that they also enjoy is quite extraordinary. they're all on £150,000 a year and very many of them are bumped up medics who know nothing about managing and are unable to play in the hospitals that this country so desperately needs. so i can't be sympathetic to these people. i don't think a public inquiry is enough. i think the nhs needs a

massive reorganisation and many more people agree with that nowadays than in the past. and i don't think the trusts are the answer . they don't think the trusts are the answer. they are merely corrupt and they are certainly unsupervised. they are not subject to any kind of democratic force or real aggressive. >> do you have any idea as to whether this discussion is going on within the public, or is it only in studios in the centre of london? but does the public have a feeling about public servants that they ought to be more accountable or does it simply think that it's ministers who decide and ministers occasionally do run the gauntlet and occasionally do get forced out of office and shrug their shoulders and think, well, that's where it is. >> i think generally speaking, the media can sometimes kind of whip itself up into a bit of a frenzy, and sometimes there is a disconnect public disconnect with the public there. but we did manage to see there. but we did manage to see the of real anger exuding . the kind of real anger exuding. i'm thinking of the case of dominic cummings when he sort of drove to durham and was accused of breaking lockdown rules,

defied of breaking lockdown rules, defied it, and the government tried to sort of maintain the line for as long as possible that was going to stand by him and managed to so. so it sort and managed to do so. so it sort of got conservative politician after conservative politician to come support of him. and come out and support of him. and there we saw a real example of where media and public anger was very, aligned . very, very closely aligned. again, another instance where, again , i think government again, i think the government made was over matt made a misstep was over matt hancock was sort of hancock when he was sort of caught embracing his partner in his office. you'll remember that initially he tried to resist resigning and the public backlash was so strong, so i do think there is appetite among the public for ministers and sort of senior public servants to carry the for can personal mistakes like that . most of the mistakes like that. most of the time they'd probably prefer the attention to be on fixing the problem . problem. >> but michael, if i'm right, i'm come to the i'm afraid if we come to the end, james, we come end. end, james, we come to the end. >> but you've made a marvellous contribution so you contribution and so thank you very dominic very much indeed. dominic cummings interesting case. cummings is an interesting case. he of course, he's he survived. of course, he's eventually boss did not. eventually his boss did not. many thanks to aubrey allegretto

, james woodhouse and matthew stadlen . in a short while, i'll stadlen. in a short while, i'll be by the conservative be joined by the conservative member parliament dudley member of parliament for dudley north, discuss north, marco longhi, to discuss why several mps have why several rebel mps have called a referendum on uk called for a referendum on uk net zero targets. but first, the latest weather . latest weather. >> the temperatures rising. boxt solar the proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> hello, i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office. so a bit of a misty start for some of us this morning. that's thanks largely to an area of high pressure to the south of the country. further to the north, we have low pressure north, we do have low pressure and that is driving in showers in across some north and western parts of the country. 1 or 2 of those showers locally heavy, largely dry is decent . sunny largely dry is decent. sunny spells the further south and east you are. and we've generally lighter winds than we saw on saturday. it will feel relatively pleasant out there with temperatures rising into

the mid 20s s across the extreme south and east. further to the north, temperatures closer to the average for the time of year . so showers tending to peter out across england and wales overnight, further to the north and west , we overnight, further to the north and west, we do see thicker cloud and showery outbreaks of rain starting to push in and with clear skies across the south, those temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to form during the early hours of monday morning . so it's a bit of a bit morning. so it's a bit of a bit of a misty, foggy start for some of a misty, foggy start for some of us in the extreme south and east on monday. but that cloud will quickly burn off further to the north. we do have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing slowly eastwards. temperature generally around average for the time of year, especially across the north. further to the south, we are looking at temperatures again, similar to saturday's . similar to saturday's. >> the temperatures rising , boxt >> the temperatures rising, boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on gb news

news. the people's channel, britain's news . britain's news. channel welcome back to sunday morning with michael portillo . with michael portillo. >> a number of reports mps have called for a public debate on the uk's target to achieve net zero by 2050 and have urged a referendum , as brenda of bristol

referendum, as brenda of bristol famously said on hearing that theresa may had called an election not another one. these moves by backbench mps strain unity in the conservative party as the target was pledged in its manifesto at the last election, an argument made in favour of a referendum is that it might allow for the complexities of net zero to be debated rather than being imposed in a manifesto . although my manifesto. although my recollection is that the brexit referendum didn't lead to a very elevated contest . one of the elevated contest. one of the real issues . joining me now to real issues. joining me now to discuss this proposal is the conservative rebel mp marco. marco welcome very much to the programme. it seems that rishi sunak has pretty much now ruled out any question of a referendum. were you serious in proposing it. >> yes, i was serious because i do believe that if we are going to be pushing forward with a policy that really i, i would dispute whether there is buying by the wider population, whether

there isn't an intrinsic dishonesty about the way we are effectively going to be unleashing the consequences of something like a net zero target by 2050 on the rest of the population. >> when the wider debate has not been had. i do believe that a referendum would enhance transparency and accountability in the decision making process , in the decision making process, and it would force all bodies, including the government, to communicate the intricacies of it. well in advance of that vote being had . being had. >> you haven't succeeded in persuading the prime minister to have a referendum, certainly not at this stage on the other hand, it does look a little bit as though the policy is in collapse. so to that extent it looks like you might be having success. that is to say that the prime minister appears to be softening up on some of the targets coming out , expressing targets coming out, expressing his for the motorist and his support for the motorist and coming out against ulez zones, although ulez are not exactly

about climate change, but you get the point . get the point. >> i get the point because forcing someone to pay £12.50 is isn't going to bring emissions down. that has not happened in london and neither do our targets, which is forcing manufacturing to effectively be offshored to other countries , offshored to other countries, namely china and the far east in other places. which means that those manufacturing tasks are still being undertaken and carbon emissions continued . it carbon emissions continued. it just doesn't happen to be in our country, arguably where we would have much stronger constraint on that manufacturing process . so that manufacturing process. so it's damaging british business, it's damaging british business, it's damaging british jobs and the intrinsic dishonesty that i spoke about earlier is that actually the carbon emissions are still being pumped into the atmosphere anyway. >> i wonder whether you'd like to make a comment about the quality of policy making and the

process because i mean, here we have found ourselves committed to try stringent target which have been legislated upon , which have been legislated upon, which are going to lead to enormous expense for the economy and for individuals. and now people like you are making a fuss about it, but really, how was it that these policies were made and legislated with so little consideration? it seems to me along the way this is an extremely good point , michael, extremely good point, michael, and you know, i've always respected you for being a very deep thinker and an articulate person. >> i remember with great fondness your night—time shows with andrew neil. um, what i will say is that as a relatively new mp myself, being elected first in 2019, there has there has never been a day that has been the same as the previous one. it's been such a rocky period. so everybody has effectively come together and sometimes rush to vote for things in ways without them having been fully understood.

and one does so in the faith that ministers and people within the leadership positions have actually undertaken to consider the consequences of what's being put forward to backbenchers like mps like myself in good faith. you know, you've described me as a rebel actually. there has not been, i believe, a single moment other than perhaps an abortion. where is the free vote that i am described as a rebel? i'm calling for something that has not really been had , which is not really been had, which is really a debate about really forcing a debate about the concept agencies of the targets being pursued as they are . and let me make this point are. and let me make this point very clear, michael. i want a greener planet for my children and for my grandchildren. i just simply happen disagree with simply happen to disagree with the we are going about it the way we are going about it right and i think that we right now. and i think that we could look at a more pragmatic approach. and i hope the prime minister is considering that. approach. and i hope the prime mini i ter is considering that. approach. and i hope the prime minii absolutelyjering that. approach. and i hope the prime minii absolutely respect1at. approach. and i hope the prime minii absolutely respect that. and i absolutely respect that. the comments that some others will make that referendums are not always the best way to achieve decisions, but it seems

to me that it's the least worst opfion to me that it's the least worst option right now. we need to carry the population with us. and i think that would only happen with a wider debate and let the arguments win out. michael if i described you as a rebel, it was inadvertent , rebel, it was inadvertent, although it's not a term of abuse in my mouth. >> thank you very much . marco >> thank you very much. marco longhi . two years ago, the longhi. two years ago, the united states said its allies withdrew from afghanistan , withdrew from afghanistan, hoping that that country's government had armed forces would the taliban bay . would keep the taliban at bay. as turned out, not even the as it turned out, not even the airport at kabul could be kept safe. and the allies scrambled out amidst harrowing chaotic out amidst harrowing and chaotic scenes . afghans who had assisted scenes. afghans who had assisted britain and the united states were placed in mortal danger. the of some who'd served the images of some who'd served the allies clambering on to cargo planes are unforgettably shameful . the house of commons shameful. the house of commons foreign affairs committee called upon philip barton, top upon sir philip barton, top official foreign office, official at the foreign office, to position over to consider his position over his handling of the crisis because and because senior officials have been evasive in their evidence to the committee

, commented that , the committee commented that there total absence there had been a total absence of evacuating afghans of a plan for evacuating afghans who the united who supported the united kingdom, despite knowing 18 months before the collapse of afghanistan that an evacuation might be necessary. that's the end of the quote. the british government has faced subsequent criticism resettlement criticism that the resettlement schemes are under delivering recent home office data reveal that afghans make up the highest proportion of arrivals by small boats. this year. joining me to discuss this is the former uk ambassador to afghanistan. between 2010 and 2012. so william patey . sir william, william patey. sir william, welcome to gb news. what do you feel about this issue? is britain doing what it ought to be doing to help those afghans who helped us? >> well , i who helped us? >> well, i think the reality is there are many more afghans who want to come to this country than britain is prepared to accept. i do think britain has an obligation to those afghans who worked directly for us and their families in helmand and

kabul and that they should be able to do to come to this country by regular routes. i suspect that most of the young men who find their way onto boats may not may not be in that category, but there isn't really a legal safe route at the moment. you hear that there are various schemes, very few people have been processed through these schemes and it's very difficult for afghans to get here. but i do think britain has an obligation to those people who most at risk because of who are most at risk because of their work for us. >> how easy is it, sir william, to identify those people beyond reasonable doubt? >> well, it should be possible for anyone in the british military, the british military keeps records. the british embassy will know who they were employed by. the british council will know who was working for them. these people should be registered and being in our record somewhere. so that

shouldn't be too difficult . shouldn't be too difficult. there'll be many more people who will claim who they were tangential, if you like, not directly employed by the british, but people like judges , for instance . i know that dame , for instance. i know that dame helena kennedy was very instrumental in getting lots of afghan judges. they weren't working directly for the british, but they were part of a system that they, the us and its allies, was building up in afghanistan. and they're directly at risk. so it'll be the people who didn't directly work for us who have a serious risk of persecution and who could be legitimate asylum seekers . seekers. >> do you mind if i change the subject? william, you and i met when you were in post in saudi arabia, and we now hear that the crown prince is to visit the united kingdom. i mean, i understand rail politic, and i know that the idea of an ethical foreign policy is something that passed into history with robin cook a few decades ago. but

quite a lot of people will be very disquieted by the idea that this person is being invited to the united kingdom. what would your reaction be? >> well, my reaction is that , >> well, my reaction is that, you know, however appalling the murder of jamal khashoggi was and it was an appalling murder. he's not the only journalist to be murdered . and we have be murdered. and we have relationships with lots of countries who who who's who have a dubious track record. turkey for one. 66 journalists were killed last year. we didn't break off relations with malta when daphne gracia was killed in 2017, when she was exposing the corruption and the maltese government. so, i mean , i don't government. so, i mean, i don't know why saudi arabia should be singled out. i mean, when you came as defence secretary, saudi arabia, you were you would have been criticised for helping to sell british arms to saudi arabia despite its appalling human rights record. the reality is we balance these things . is we balance these things. saudi arabia is an important partner in the gulf. it's an

important regional country. they can't be ignored and we and we have a complex and multifaceted relationship with them, of which our dialogue over human rights is. but one part of that. >> both my old trade and your old trade, politics and diplomacy get pretty messy. thank you very much to sir william patey . thank you very much to sir william patey. in a thank you very much to sir william patey . in a few moments, william patey. in a few moments, i'll be speaking to professor sinatra. gupta about the costs and legacy of the covid lockdowns, as well as delving into the latest arts and theatre with stefan kyrgios. the curtain will rise again on this program shortly .

through until 7:00 this evening. gb news the people's channel, britain's watching . britain's watching. >> welcome back to sunday with michael portillo . the michael portillo. the consequences of covid live on policies that were implemented by the british government and others have enduring effects. young youngsters who are in little danger from the virus compared to other age groups missed out on crucial stages of education and early years development because their schools were closed by government order. the least well—off are likely to have suffered the most when teaching went online. those without access to computers and without strong family support fell further behind. joining me now to discuss the cost of lockdown

is sunak gupta, a professor of theoretical epidemiology at the university of oxford . welcome to university of oxford. welcome to gb news sunetra thank you for joining us. tell us about the policy that might have been implemented that could have to led the schools being kept open i >> -- >> well , fundamentally, what we >> well, fundamentally, what we were we knew right at the outset of the pandemic was that children weren't at risk. most people weren't at risk . there people weren't at risk. there was a finite, vulnerable population, which were mainly the very frail, elderly and people with co—morbidities. so the sensible thing to do , as the sensible thing to do, as anyone would tell you, is to try and protect them from infection. and there are standard ways of achieving that, such as social distancing. et cetera . the distancing. et cetera. the fallacy , the fundamental fallacy fallacy, the fundamental fallacy that then was occurred was that it was assumed that these methods could actually also stop the spread of infection . so

the spread of infection. so instead of just focusing on those who are vulnerable to death from infection , we started death from infection, we started considering the use of these methods to curtail the spread of infection and that that was, first of all, wrong , because first of all, wrong, because that's not how these systems work . they're too complex. you work. they're too complex. you can't . yes, of course, if can't. yes, of course, if everybody , you know, isolated everybody, you know, isolated themselves , then theoretically themselves, then theoretically you wouldn't get a spread. but you wouldn't get a spread. but you can't just dial up the spread or dial it down just by getting 50% of the population to stay at home or closing schools . so that was fundamentally wrong . but most important here wrong. but most important here is that these policies were bound to cause enormous damage, particularly to children and also, obviously , the poor people also, obviously, the poor people who were disadvantaged, people who were disadvantaged, people who didn't have permanent jobs, who didn't have permanent jobs, who couldn't just work from

home, who didn't have nice gardens in which their children could play. i mean, it was it was just so blinding, obvious, right from the start that these policies would cause harm, that we should really have stopped to consider whether they were worth implementing , even if they did implementing, even if they did work in the event they actually did not. so it was a real tragedy . it's been alleged we tragedy. it's been alleged we were sorry. yes. >> but i was going to say, it's been alleged by some that the covid inquiry does not show good signs of considering the damage done to young people . are you done to young people. are you one of those who fear that the inquiry is not looking into this subject with enough intensity ? subject with enough intensity? >> absolutely. i think it's quite shocking that they aren't put right at the front of this inquiry . i put right at the front of this inquiry. i mean, the put right at the front of this inquiry . i mean, the first put right at the front of this inquiry. i mean, the first thing to look at is how what happened, the fates of children under the policies that were implemented at and this has been pushed back , almost sidelined . and the

, almost sidelined. and the critical questions appear to be, oh, did we lock down early enough what was going on in the government ? you know, almost government? you know, almost trying to assign some form of blame, which is really not productive. what we need to do is consider what was done that was wrong and damaging and how we can make sure that never happens again. >> may i ask you this? you became a critic. not since covid ended, but during the covid epidemic. you were critical of government policies, were you ostracised and persecuted for your views ? your views? >> yes, that's quite obvious . i >> yes, that's quite obvious. i think if you look at the history of how we were targeted and the people who vilified us, i mean, there's a clear record on social media of other academics and people in the media who and politician who resorted to what would call defamation really

smearing of us, branding us as being controlled by right wing extremists for putting forward views which which had nothing to do with , you know, do with, you know, considerations of libertarianism, but much more to do with the harm that was going to be caused , particularly to to be caused, particularly to vulnerable sectors . so it is vulnerable sectors. so it is quite sad really that, first of all, no debate was allowed. that is just intrinsically harmful to society . and we can see that by society. and we can see that by these debates not being allowed . the profound damage that has occurred . i wonder if i was occurred. i wonder if i was right , anyone was right to occurred. i wonder if i was right, anyone was right to begin with, but our voices should have been heard . been heard. >> i wonder if it helps at all if i thank you and congratulate you for your contributions and urge you to continue to put forward your point of view. because i and this channel

believe in free speech. thank you very much. sunetra gupta very helpful. >> thank you . >> thank you. >> thank you. >> earlier this week, bradley cooper came under fire for his portrayal of the of the us conductor and composer leonard bernstein in the new film maestro cooper used a prosthetic nose to make him look more like the legendary conductor. some howled that that was anti—semitic and accusation robustly dismissed by bernstein , whose family cooper is not jewish by practise or origin. is it acceptable for actors to play characters of a different ethnicity ? stefan kyrgios is ethnicity? stefan kyrgios is here. what do you think about this one? >> stefan i think this is a big old, complicated mess. michael i think it's just there are so many different sides it. you many different sides to it. you have people already have jewish people already coming both sides of the coming out on both sides of the argument. some it's not actually about it. in this case, a non—jewish actor playing the role which has been in the past, there's been a lot of criticism with that. for example, when helen mirren played golda meir, maureen lipman complained and

said, why weren't jewish actresses is actresses considered? this is actually about the actually more about the prosthetic nose that's drawing all the fire and whether it ties into a dangerous caricature, which is historically been quite prevalent in popular culture art, the kind of sort of a jewish person with a very large hooked nose. again when people are coming down on both sides, i think if you look at the pictures personally, he he has bernstein's nose. that's what they've given him. >> yes . i they've given him. >> yes. i mean, it seems to me there's actually a danger here that the racism comes from the other side. i mean, you could argue bradley cooper set argue that bradley cooper set out look like leonard out to look like leonard bernstein, what most bernstein, which is what most actors when they're playing a actors do when they're playing a well—known character from history . those people who say, history. those people who say, ah, he's increased the size of his nose, therefore it's anti semitic. seems to me semitic. it seems to me that that verges on being anti—semitic. what he did anti—semitic. no, what he did was himself look like was make himself look like leonard knows all. leonard bernstein knows at all. >> absolutely. there's been >> absolutely. and there's been many saying many jewish commentators saying and including his own family, saying had lovely, saying he had a lovely, beautiful nose and other beautiful big nose and other people saying, i have lovely,

people saying, i have a lovely, beautiful nose. beautiful big nose. >> my father this is true of >> my father is this is true of you me, the way. you and me, by the way. >> well, my dear father, whose noses ginormous. noses and ears are ginormous. and very worried that this and i'm very worried that this is path. but yes, it's not is my path. but yes, it's not only a jewish thing, however , it only a jewish thing, however, it has been historically. if you think about things like in think about things like fagin in oliver and those portrayals on screen, it has been very problematic. so i understand that it's triggering. >> where it lead us to? >> where does it lead us to? could only catholic play could could only a catholic play john for example , john f kennedy, for example, could only a protestant play. john knox well, this is then the whole sort of you open up pandora's box. >> whole problem. we >> there's a whole problem. we had margulies recently, had julianna margulies recently, who's playing a lesbian character morning show . character on the morning show. first she very loudly first of all, she very loudly said to people, you don't know my sexual ity. that is a my sexual ity. and that is a whole other issue. there's a big thing. russell t the gay thing. russell t davis, the gay writer, said only queer writer, has said only queer people should play queer roles. but then an actress friend of mine asked me, does that mean people have to disclose their sexuality? so that's a whole problem. and that then mean problem. and does that then mean that can't play that gay people can't play straight roles ? as julianna

straight roles? as julianna margulies pointed out, does that mean non mother can't play a mother role ? so it all unravels mother role? so it all unravels very quickly. i think with all of it . the important thing is of it. the important thing is sensitivity and conversation, not denunciation on either sides . but it's very messy and it's part of our new world dialogue about identity and it's interesting and valuable , but it interesting and valuable, but it needs to be measured and respectful. i think you said in passing there a moment ago, and i think it was probably a slip of the tongue that jewish actors and actresses had not been considered for a role. >> i assume that they had been, but director but that the casting director had in the end decided that a non—jewish person was the person to role. to play the role. >> an actress of mine has >> an actress friend of mine has has. she's she's jewish and she's for roles and she's been up for roles and a non—jewish person has a non—jewish person has got a jewish role. bradley is jewish role. bradley cooper is not gyllenhaal , who not jewish. jake gyllenhaal, who is had spent i think it's been his passion project to get this bernstein film made. so that's that's whole other that's a whole other conversation . it all boils down conversation. it all boils down in this case, always pretty much

to business. it's who can get the project made, who has the star power, who has the connections, who will put bums on cinema seats or in also in theatres. so yes, i think jewish actors are considered but don't always get the role. now by the way, one impact of this is that i might not have known that this film had been made, and i will now almost certainly buy a ticket because i'm very interested in subject. >> i hope you were of leonard bernstein. do you want bring bernstein. do you want to bring us the london stage and tell us to the london stage and tell us to the london stage and tell us on there? us what's going on there? >> there's great >> well, there's really great news. i everybody. i don't >> well, there's really great news. who's everybody. i don't >> well, there's really great news. who's watching dy. i don't >> well, there's really great news. who's watching us i don't >> well, there's really great news. who's watching us and n't >> well, there's really great news. who's watching us and who's know who's watching us and who's got hour on the football got half an hour on the football at the moment. >> i think most people are >> but i think most people are watching us. >> everybody is watching us, michael, they've just got michael, but they've just got the in background, the radio on in the background, lionesses are playing. football is of the moment. and is very much of the moment. and i very, very excited that i am very, very excited that dear england, incredible dear england, the incredible national is making national theatre play is making a transfer. it's been a west end transfer. it's been such it's joseph such a huge hit. it's joseph fiennes the england fiennes playing the england manager. southgate. it's manager. gareth southgate. it's an stunning piece. it an absolutely stunning piece. it is opening , i

an absolutely stunning piece. it is opening, i think, in october and at the moment is booking through january. so they're through till january. so they're anticipating huge it's anticipating a huge hit. it's about football, it's about national identity, it's about masculinity. it's about masculinity. again it's about who we are. it's so much fun and it's that perfect mix of art and entertainment. so i'm thrilled that this is transferring . and that this is transferring. and people should know that there are always things going on in cinema . lots and lots of arts cinema. lots and lots of arts are going into cinema coming up in this autumn. >> yes. tell us tell us about a few of those. i don't know how many people are the of many people are in the habit of doing this. you are an opera doing this. if you are an opera fan, you probably are fairly well habit of popping well in the habit of popping along to a cinema because you can probably an opera from can probably see an opera from anywhere world. the anywhere in the world. yes the met very good example. of met is a very good example. of course, see the met course, you can also see the met online, which is a very good, very option. but what else very good option. but what else is into cinemas? very good option. but what else is well, nto cinemas? very good option. but what else is well, ito cinemas? very good option. but what else is well, i have emas? very good option. but what else is well, i have been? very good option. but what else is well, i have been to see i'm >> well, i have been to see i'm i know you're the opera man. i love my ballet and i've been to see ballet the cinema. and see ballet at the cinema. and it's a really wonderful it's actually a really wonderful experience because number one, depending and your

depending on your seats and your budget you're in the budget when you're in the cinema, huge and it's right cinema, it's huge and it's right there. you get to see the costumes. you close on costumes. you get close up on the dancing, the footwork. it's thrilling stuff. so the royal opera has whole opera house has a whole programme through with programme coming through with ballets, don quixote, ballets, so we have don quixote, the which being the ballet, which is being screened, have a screened, i think let's have a look dates. that's coming look on our dates. that's coming up i to say october. up in, i want to say october. now that's november. we've got your wagner das rheingold is going into cinemas late in september. michael, i will see you there now you'll see you'll see me in the opera house for that one. >> i've got a ticket for that. >> i've got a ticket for that. >> or in germany. i know you like to to germany in austria like to go to germany in austria for that. also nutcracker, which is seen cinema for that. also nutcracker, which is fabulous. seen cinema for that. also nutcracker, which is fabulous. that'll cinema for that. also nutcracker, which is fabulous. that'll be cinema for that. also nutcracker, which is fabulous. that'll be in1ema is fabulous. that'll be in cinemas in december. and the first is always live first screening is always live as then they encore as well. and then they do encore screenings. so you're watching a live from the opera house, live feed from the opera house, which really thrilling. and which is really thrilling. and this really exciting this is a really exciting thing. i that happening i think that that's happening and recommend people and i recommend to people i mean, as far as the mean, certainly as far as the opera and ballet are opera and the ballet are concerned it in the concerned and see it in the theatre and see it televised or in a cinema. >> because what i found i mean,

particularly with the metropolitan opera house in new york, put as thought york, they put as much thought and the television and care into the television production as into the stage production. so every every shot is perfect . you know, the right is perfect. you know, the right person is in the background, maybe just out of focus . it person is in the background, maybe just out of focus. it is extraordinary that actors on a stage can be required and succeed in being in all the right places at the right time. fantastic as a ballet man, are you going to tell me something about carlos acosta? >> i was. and i've got one exciting play thing which you quickly want to talk about, the james norton a little life. yes. stunning gruelling, extraordinary experience that i'm so glad i saw. but it is it's a lot to take in that got extended in theatres . i went extended in theatres. i went across to the savoy to meet ticket demand that's now going into cinemas as well. and that i urge people to see james norton is incredible. it's not an easy watch . watch. >> had you had you read the book? read the book. book? i had not read the book. people say that that the play has very little compared to the book. i mean, how can they be the same? because the length of

the same? because the length of the two eight, 900 pages, but some people lamented, i haven't either seen it already. >> book more about the >> the book has more about the other the play is other characters. the play is much focussed on the much more focussed on the central the other central characters. the other characters bit more characters are a little bit more two in the play, but two dimensional in the play, but it's towering increase, it's a towering increase, audible experience. that's in cinemas the 28th of cinemas on the 28th of september, and i urge people september, and i do urge people to that. and yes, carlos to see that. and yes, carlos acosta, just exciting , acosta, just exciting, marvellous cuban he's marvellous cuban dancer. he's cuban , but this he is now the cuban, but this he is now the director of the birmingham royal ballet getting to the ballet and he's getting to the birmingham of black birmingham roots of black sabbath . and have sabbath. and they have collaborated on a ballet which is opening later this month. and hopefully i'll be going up and telling all about that telling you all about that later. that will also be later. but that will also be touring the uk. so i urge people touring the uk. so i urge people to look tickets for that to look for tickets for that ballet heavy it's ballet and heavy metal. it's like ballet and heavy metal. it's uke and ballet and heavy metal. it's like and me, it's like you and me, michael. it's the perfect combination. >> combination. look >> perfect combination. i look forward it forward to talking about it quite thank very much. quite soon. thank you very much. stefan that's it stefan kyrees well, that's it for this hour, but i'll be back in just minutes with more in just a few minutes with more arts culture because tim arts and culture because sir tim rice joins to discuss the rice joins me to discuss the remakes the disney catalogue remakes of the disney catalogue and over the new

and the brouhaha over the new snow white. stay on the red carpet with me on gb news. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. hello i am dan on. gb news. hello i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office. >> so a bit of a misty start for some of us this morning. that's thanks largely to an area of high pressure to the south of the country, further to the north, we have low pressure north, we do have low pressure and that is driving showers in across some north and western parts of the country. 1 or 2 of those showers locally heavy, largely dry, is decent . sunny largely dry, is decent. sunny spells the further south and east you are and with generally lighter winds than we saw on saturday, it will feel relatively pleasant out there with temperatures right in into the mid 20s across the extreme south and east. further to the north, temperatures closer to the average for the time of year . so showers tending to peter

out across england and wales overnight . further to the north overnight. further to the north and west, we do see thicker cloud and showery outbreaks of rain starting to push in. and with clear skies across the south, those temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to form in the early hours

or or. or or . way .

or or. or or. way. >> welcome back to the second hour of sunday with michael portillo. the clock has struck a noonis portillo. the clock has struck a noon is upon us face up to sunday afternoon with some topical debate, arts and culture and world affairs. mirror mirror on the wall. what's the most controversial remake of them to all begin this hour, we're joined by legendary lyricist sir tim rice , fame for jesus christ tim rice, fame for jesus christ superstar evita chess and disney classics, including beauty and the beast, aladdin and the lion king. to discuss whether recent remakes of classic and beloved movies are tainting the catalogue of disney , the spirit catalogue of disney, the spirit of the king of rock and roll will be in the building as he makes his way over to the united kingdom. we'll be exploring an upcoming graceland exhibition, which will display 400 of elvis's personal possessions for the first time in london. later this year. our tourists are

blessing or a curse whilst tourism bosses boost local business and economies. excessive numbers can lead some to disrespect important monuments in the name of getting an instagram post. i'll discuss that with the sun's travel edhon that with the sun's travel editor, lisa minot. civil servants are ten times more likely to die in service. things to get the sack. i speak to tim knox, who's authored a startling report with the lionesses. one nil down, we hope to toast the success of the spanish or engush success of the spanish or english women's football team at the end of the hour, i'll be joined by dembele's wine estate, the largest vineyard in england , the dry june and rainy july that we have had may give us the best harvest in 15 years. all of that to come. but first, the latest news headlines with tamsin roberts . tamsin roberts. >> michael, thanks very much. good afternoon from the gb

newsroom. at 12:02. well, england are trailing spain 1—0 at half time in the women's world cup final in sydney. well, let's go live to our south—west of england. reporter jeff moody, who's at ashton gate stadium in bristol. and jeff, fans, are they still in high spirits there at half time ? at half time? >> yeah, i think they are really i mean, obviously, it's a little bit more muted than we would have expected at this point. we were hoping that they would at least have managed to equalise by point. but one is too by this point. but no one is too downhearted. the beers are flowing. they've been flowing since doors, when since early doors, even when it was illegal that first hour when the police said they would turn a eye to anyone drinking a blind eye to anyone drinking outside licencing laws . so outside of licencing laws. so yes, there is a very good atmosphere here. everyone's just getting drink and getting getting a new drink and getting ready part two. don't ready for part two. don't forget, it's a game of two halves, to use that cliche, and we're hoping that the second half the one that makes half will be the one that makes the lionesses to victory .

the lionesses roar to victory. >> okay, jeff, for now, thanks very much. we'll let you get back to that second half and we'll, of course, be watching closely. well, this is a live picture now of vox park , a picture now of vox park, a little bit more action than when we first saw it earlier. of course, half time, england trailing 1—0, as jeff said , trailing 1—0, as jeff said, spirits not dampened yet. of course, we've got the second half to come. thousands of people, though, also watching on television for this historic world cup final . and the world cup final. and the lionesses hoping to bring that home in other news now, the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff . the call comes be regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy levy's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consults who repeatedly raised concerns about the former nurse weren't listened to. letby, who was found guilty of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six others, has

indicated she won't attend her sentencing tomorrow . former sentencing tomorrow. former justice secretary robert buckland says she should be forced to listen in. >> my suggestion have been to make sure that there was a live link beamed into the cell, either sound or sound and pictures to ensure that letby had nowhere to hide and that she , in effect, has to listen to what the judge is saying about the case. and most importantly , the case. and most importantly, the case. and most importantly, the victim. personal statements, those impact statements that will really bring home, i think , to the wider world. the appalling, devastating impact of the loss of these innocent children, these innocent babies have had upon dozens of families i >> -- >>a50 >> a 50 year old man will appear in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents likely to be useful to terrorist . it's after the terrorist. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . police believe the mistake. police believe the information is now in the hands

of dissident republicans as a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire . in bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it'll be based on the award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele, amy winehouse and tom holland. schools minister nick gibb says it's an exciting project. >> we wanted young people to have the same opportunities in the north of england as they have in the brit school in south london that had to travel all the way south. so this is a school for 516 to 19 year olds specialising in drama dance . the specialising in drama dance. the technical side of and singing and the technical side of theatre production as well. so it's very exciting project. it should be open in 3 or 4 years time . time. >> russia's luna 25 spacecraft has crashed on the moon. a rocket carrying the craft launched on the 11th of august. the country in a space race against india, whose chandrayaan three is due to land on the

satellite's south pole this week. this was moscow's first mission to the moon in 47 years. the failed attempt is a blow to the country which was hoping to return with the first samples of frozen water. this is gb news across the uk on tv in your car, on digital radio and on your smart speaker by saying play gb news now though, it's back to michael . news now though, it's back to michael. thank you very much tamsin. >> trying to live up to originals is never an easy task. in recent years , disney has in recent years, disney has attempted to remake a number of its animated classics as live action films, with new productions of aladdin, mulan and now snow white. actor as with dwarfism, have been snubbed for the roles as dwarves. rachel zegler portraying snow white has commented that snow white is, quote, not going to be dreaming about true love's she's dreaming about true love's she's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be, and the leader

her late father told her that she could be if she was fearless , fair, brave and true. and to quote that takes us some distance from the grimm brothers fairy tale . who better to join fairy tale. who better to join me now to discuss this than the legendary lyricist of jesus christ superstar evita chess and disney classics, including beauty and the beast, aladdin and the lion king, sir tim rice. tim, it's marvellous to have you back on gb news. how are you? >> i'm fine, i think. michael thank you very much. nice to be here. >> tell me about the rationale , >> tell me about the rationale, the philosophy, the policy here of going in for all these remakes . does this make good remakes. does this make good commercial sense? is it what the pubuc commercial sense? is it what the public wants is it what you want? by the way? >> well, i was only involved in one remake, actually two in a way, because i was partly involved in some of the songs for aladdin, but i was very involved with lion king, which was remade , and that was an was remade, and that was an exception to most of the rules because it's obviously a film, a

story that doesn't have a princess in it. and it's it was more or less an original story. first time round, i didn't think the live action. so called version worked as well as the cartoon , partly because it was cartoon, partly because it was it's extremely difficult to make animals, even though the whole thing was constructed and in a way was a sort of cartoon itself. but to make real looking animals have expressions was almost impossible. and a lot of humour seemed to go from the film. i felt . but that was a bit film. i felt. but that was a bit of an exception when you have something like snow white, which is a an ancient story, early 19th century and which i didn't realise this until i did a little bit of research on it, it was actually made into a silent film in 1912, i think, and it even appeared on broadway and it was on broadway 1912, i think , was on broadway 1912, i think, and a silent film in 1916. and this even, even that is a long,

long time ago. and the story, as i understood it, the new version of snow white, the story has been changed so much , the been changed so much, the characters have been changed. the dwarves are not all dwarves. and you think, well, why call it a remake? why make a remake? why not just make a new film with an exciting story that i've no principle . i don't that i've no principle. i don't really have an objection to casting problems. i think anybody , if you're an actor, anybody, if you're an actor, should be able to play any part. and the only thing really that matters is whether the actor is good and right for the part . we good and right for the part. we had problems with evita on stage recently, once or twice when theatrical companies have said, well, we can't find a brilliant latino or latin or argentinian, even actress to play the lead role. well it's been played many times by people from many different nationalities, many ,

different nationalities, many, many, many, many different races . and the only thing that really matters is, are they any good can can they convince in the role? and i think that's what should apply to all the disney films as well. do they work as movies? and if you start with a story written in 18, story that was written in 18, whenever it was by the grimm brothers grimm and you change it so much, you aren't really recreating the story or doing a new film, which may or may not be good. >> what about the sexism thing? i mean, i am i was slightly poking fun at rachel zegler there . her quotation about, you there. her quotation about, you know, snow white being an empowered young woman and so on, but maybe i shouldn't have done because, you know, the attitudes that we took to women and their destiny in life, their destiny and marry princes and life being to marry princes in days, i that is in those days, i mean, that is a bit dated . and i mean, it could bit dated. and i mean, it could cause considerable offence to remake it in way. cause considerable offence to remake it in way . what what remake it in that way. what what do think you do you think you are you bothered by that? do you think we now need to make our remakes more relevant to our culture of

today and our prejudices and outlooks of today ? outlooks of today? >> yes. i think you have to take in the views of today, but you shouldn't be completely hidebound by them and i don't think the 1937 snow white, for example, is now a bad film because it reflected it reflects and reflected its time and it was sincerely made. and it was extraordinarily popular. and the actual fact, the character snow white in that early film isn't isn't just a cipher. she actually makes a few decisions and she's a very good and nice person. but, but, but, but you can't do that again now. and why would you want to? because it's been done very well. back in the back in the almost seems like the stone of cinema. it's the stone age of cinema. it's been done jolly well and my only question is really why ? why, in question is really why? why, in a way, call it snow white. why not make a brand new film with an exciting story which which perhaps they've done? i haven't

seen the film yet, but if it's a good story. well told, it should reflect and automatically will reflect and automatically will reflect the views of today. tim is the tim is controversial is simply very good for getting people to go to cinemas. >> i mean there's all this brouhaha over snow white. it's months before it's going to be available to us and i'm now sort of, well, half itching to go. yes it obviously is good controversy. >> usually is good. but if it gets cancelled, i mean , who gets cancelled, i mean, who knows what the film is like or what sort of attitudes it's perceived to take. but obviously it would be bad for disney if the film got absolutely cancelled and ignored or people say, we're not going for reasons a, b and c, it's all done with that.isitis a, b and c, it's all done with that. is it is it a great story, well told, and is it fairly told and are the characters believable? i mean, the little mermaid was the last one i saw. there was a remake of that and that kind of i mean, there's

some things it, not some great things in it, not least the brilliant howard ashman, menken score . but i ashman, alan menken score. but i sort of felt with little mermaid that sometimes they were they were away some of the were taking away some of the excitement , some of the excitement, some of the enchantment of the original. but i'm just such a cartoon fan . and i'm just such a cartoon fan. and if a cartoon works so brilliantly like little mermaid did, or even like snow white did back in 1937, when even i wasn't around it , back in 1937, when even i wasn't around it, it's often a mistake to try and redo it, but you know, remakes can work. i mean, the aladdin remake works worked pretty well and there have been, i think 13 or 14 princesses in disney films over the years. and in most of them films like mulan or pocahontas or . or pocahontas or. tangled even

the female role . is usually the female role. is usually pretty strong . and you've got to pretty strong. and you've got to go back quite a . long way to go back quite a. long way to have a have an excuse . have a have an excuse. to criticise a film for being unfair . to criticise a film for being unfair. to women. i think the reason disney film, whether . reason disney film, whether. good or not, have . done women .

justice >> sir tim rice. justice >> sir tim rice . thank you very >> sir tim rice. thank you very much. could i thank you for. all the excitement and entertainment that you've . given us all over that you've. given us all over several decades? great to see you on . gb news. you on. gb news. >> thank you very much . thanks >> thank you very much. thanks a lot . lot. >> prime minister rishi sunak is reportedly facing pressure to end the cushy . reportedly facing pressure to end the cushy. public reportedly facing pressure to end the cushy . public sector end the cushy. public sector jobs.

end the cushy. public sector jobs . culture this comes jobs. culture this comes following a startling new report . which has revealed that civil servants are . ten times more servants are. ten times more likely to die . while in post likely to die. while in post than to be dismissed . for poor than to be dismissed. for poor performance. he reported . that performance. he reported. that across . 11 government across. 11 government departments, in employing more than 310,000 civil servants, only 248 were a only 248 were given a performance review the performance review in the previous joining me previous 12 months. joining me now to discuss this is one of the report editor the authors of the report editor of governance of the effective governance forum, thank you forum, tim knox. tim, thank you for us. welcome to gb forjoining us. welcome to gb news. good afternoon. think forjoining us. welcome to gb newstheyod afternoon. think forjoining us. welcome to gb newsthe figuresrnoon. think forjoining us. welcome to gb newsthe figures rnoon. there< both the figures i gave there are somewhat shocking, but the lack reviews, lack of performance reviews, of course, goes to the course, you know, goes to the heart of the system. it seems then civil then that routinely civil servants reviewed on servants are not reviewed on their that

correct? >> i think the crucial factor is correct? >> veryik the crucial factor is correct? >> veryik thratejcial factor is correct? >> veryik thrate ofal factor is correct? >> veryik thrate of dismissals the very low rate of dismissals for poor performance. it is staggering that literally 1 in 10,000 civil servants have been dismissed for 10,000 civil servants have been dism performance for 10,000 civil servants have been dism performance at for 10,000 civil servants have been dism performance at a for 10,000 civil servants have been dism performance at a timeyr poor performance at a time when the of service the evidence of civil service failure and all failure is mounting and all around failure is mounting and all arorwhy did you out do >> why did you set out to do this research it have this research and did it have surprises for you? >> been looking the >> we have been looking at the failure it's failure of government and it's not political issue. not a party political issue. i think it goes back decades. and i've blair complained about i've tony blair complained about pulling the levers of power. nothing and same pulling the levers of power. notihappened and same pulling the levers of power. notihappened over and same pulling the levers of power. notihappened over thej same pulling the levers of power. notihappened over the last same pulling the levers of power. notihappened over the last yearse pulling the levers of power. nc conservative yver the last yearse pulling the levers of power. ncconservative government.'earse of conservative government. that is a real problem with the effective management of government. it simply isn't working so we working at the moment. so we have working at the moment. so we havthought it'd be important working at the moment. so we hav'whethert'd be important working at the moment. so we hav'whether thisye important working at the moment. so we hav'whether this how portant working at the moment. so we hav'whether this how portathe working at the moment. so we hav'\service this how portathe working at the moment. so we hav'\service doesiow portathe working at the moment. so we hav'\service does monitorithe working at the moment. so we hav'\service does monitor the civil service does monitor the performance and performance of its staff and take action. and frankly, take action. and quite frankly, the figures are staggering. >> about government >> you talked about government not minute. >> you talked about government not that minute. >> you talked about government not that yourninute. >> you talked about government not that your expression. >> you talked about government not did at your expression. >> you talked about government not did at ever your expression. >> you talked about government not did at ever yymean, ression. but did it ever i mean, if we look back to the 1950s and 60s, which think a which we often think of as a sort and sort of heyday of government and policy things policy making, were things different civil different then? were civil servants sacked, disciplined, reviewed? it a completely >> i think it was a completely different culture. no, and it certainly last 3 decades. over the last 2 or 3 decades. it's important it's in a way important to ask the policy the question what actual policy of government has been introduced this millennium, which made real which has actually made a real difference? which has actually made a real differenc argue that gove possibly argue that michael gove at real changes, substantial real changes, but otherwise, does it really matter which minister is in office? does matter which party

does it even matter which party is we some is in office? we did do some polling that 58% of is in office? we did do some polielectorate that 58% of is in office? we did do some polielectorate really that 58% of is in office? we did do some polielectorate really thinks58% of is in office? we did do some pol|

a proposal that matters is how well it is implemented and yet every single day we see example after example of how the management of government is failing, whether it's the levy and the tragedy of how the hospital trusts failed to pick up on it , hospital trusts failed to pick up on it, whether it's hospital trusts failed to pick up on it , whether it's the up on it, whether it's the a—level marking problems which are in the news as well, or whether it's the data breach in northern ireland, all of these trends , all these all these trends, all these all these problems have a common thread that the management of government is failing and it's time for parties to put that right . right. >> thank you. tim knox. i i'm sure that's a very valuable research and that was certainly a very interesting summary of what you've discovered . very what you've discovered. very shortly, the king of rock and roll will be in the building in spirit at least as we have an insight into the upcoming elvis

presley exhibition coming to the united kingdom. come back in a moment. but don't you step on my blue suede shoes . blue suede shoes. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello . i am dan stroud and >> hello. i am dan stroud and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office . so forecast from the met office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that is helping to keep it generally unsettled . the further generally unsettled. the further north west you are . we north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud with outbreaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and northwest scotland. further to the south and east across much of england and wales , largely dry and with those clear skies over overnight, temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to

actually form by dawn. but these figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. so largely staying in double figures overnight . so that's largely staying in double figures overnight. so that's a bright start to monday morning with any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift it further to the north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland. and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea . and with those irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions , slightly breezier conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher than the values sunday, will values we saw on sunday, it will feel slightly chillier there feel slightly chillier out there . so on tuesday , that band of . so on tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales. and that changeable theme continues for the rest of the week with temperatures peaking on wednesday . bye for now . on wednesday. bye for now. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar proud sponsors of weather on .

britain's news. channel >> welcome back to sunday with michael portillo , the king of michael portillo, the king of rock and roll . elvis michael portillo, the king of rock and roll. elvis is finally making his way to the united kingdom. he never toured the country when he was alive, but 400 of his personal possessions will be exhibited in the capital later this year. elvis's career

defied later this year. elvis's career defied gravity, was larger than life and deeply influential . but life and deeply influential. but the grand life that he envisaged at graceland was distinctly suburban . the exhibition suburban. the exhibition explores the man and includes lesser known aspects of his early years. hobbies and personal life. it features a ferrari and his military uniform , and it can be seen at arches london bridge, a new venue. joining me now, the arches venue manager , neil jones. welcome gb manager, neil jones. welcome gb news. this is an exciting exhibition. it's quite unusual for it to come to london. what's your reaction to it? what do you feel about it ? feel about it? >> absolutely. excitement i mean, you know, we're bringing over over 400 of his artefacts, some of which have never left graceland. a couple of which have been seen anywhere . have never been seen anywhere. so, i he still so so, i mean, he is still so celebrated as an icon . and we're celebrated as an icon. and we're just delighted to be able to have some of personal have some of his personal possessions , big and small. you have some of his personal posseseverything and small. you have some of his personal posseseverything down mall. you have some of his personal posseseverything down from you have some of his personal posseseverything down from the know, everything down from the colouring books he used to use as you mentioned , as a kid to, as you mentioned, the ferrari is mg , as a kid to, as you mentioned, the ferrari is mg, his as a kid to, as you mentioned, the ferrari is mg , his trike, the ferrari is mg, his trike, all sorts of stuff and also

exploring the man behind the sort of myth and the legend as well. we all know elvis on the stage , but not a lot of people stage, but not a lot of people realise what he was like, you know, in his quieter moments. he was example . was a big reader. for example. you know, had hobbies. he was you know, he had hobbies. he was into he had his own into horses. he even had his own football team, not a professional football team, but he loved his american football and one of the things that's going to be on display is his football helmets, which have never been seen. even you never been seen. even if you went graceland , you would not went to graceland, you would not have going have seen them. they're going to be seen be something which is being seen for ever. so for the first time ever. so a real look at man behind the legend. >> i, i made a somewhat catty remark, perhaps about the suburban quality of graceland. i've been graceland is a grandiose looking house, but it's quite small . and he lived it's quite small. and he lived in quite a modest way in that house, which perhaps is very much to his credit. and then , as much to his credit. and then, as i remember, just parked away from graceland across the way is an aeroplane. did he have an aeroplane as well there? did he. >> he did. has an airfield. >> he did. has an airfield. >> did.

>> yeah, he did. >> yeah, he did. >> his obviously his >> he had his own obviously his own jet. sadly. own private jet. sadly. obviously that obviously we can't squeeze that into have some undertaking there have been some undertaking but late but named after his late daughter , of course, lisa marie, daughter, of course, lisa marie, that's plane . that's the name of the plane. but we're just but yeah, we're just really excited some of these excited to get some of these things we'll be opening things over and we'll be opening on the 20th of october. >> it is very interesting that you're able to explore the man and it in this new and you're doing it in this new venue.can and you're doing it in this new venue. can you tell me a bit about and i about that? i'm a london and i had this. had no idea about this. >> basically brand >> yes, it's basically a brand new home for exhibitions in london. it's called archie's london. it's called archie's london so it's part of london bridge, so it's part of london bridge, so it's part of london bridge. you imagine london bridge. if you imagine five cavernous high ceilinged old railway arches, 11,500ft2. absolutely perfect for putting on big exhibitions. normally when exhibitions come over to london, they need a temporary home or they'll go to the edge of london. but this is going to be new venue in the be a brand new venue in the centre the heart of london, centre in the heart of london, just corner from the just around the corner from the shard, are is shard, which we are sure is going huge, tourist going to be a huge, big tourist destination years come. >> this opens in october the 20th, is it? >> yep, 20th is day one of the elvis exhibition. it'll run right through until the of

right through until the end of february. february the 25th. so lots of opportunities for people to we've also got a to come. we've also got a special vip experience as well, where allowing customers , a few where allowing customers, a few customers each day to handle some of elvis's stuff, including one his gold belts as one of his famous gold belts as well. so if you've ever wanted to some of elvis's stuff, to handle some of elvis's stuff, now chance . now is your chance. >> exhibition february >> is the exhibition in february then rushing to another then rushing off to another capital in europe? >> no, we've been in talks directly with graceland just to do this. it's not on tour. so this is something we know this is something which we know is welcome people into is going to welcome people into london this . we've london just to see this. we've already emails already had calls and emails from people from over the from people from all over the world when can buy world saying when can i buy tickets lot of tickets as well? so a lot of interest globally man was interest globally in the man was a global legend. >> . and i think a lot of >> yeah. and i think a lot of people now are willing to travel even country for even from country to country for a proper i mean , for a proper exhibition. i mean, for example, the vermeer in amsterdam , you know, so amsterdam recently, you know, so many i knew were many people i knew were travelling the many people i knew were travellto; the many people i knew were travelito see the many people i knew were travelito see that. the many people i knew were travelito see that. so the many people i knew were travelito see that. so you1e many people i knew were travelito see that. so you may globe to see that. so you may attract all over the attract people from all over the continent. and many congratulation deal, i'm sure. thank absolutely thank you. absolutely fascinating. for joining fascinating. thanks for joining us jones

us today. that's neil jones artists . a blessing or a curse artists. a blessing or a curse there are reports of inconsiderate tourists in italy and snowdonia who have been doing bad things. and in snowdonia , they're now snowdonia, they're now discouraging instagrammers . i'll discouraging instagrammers. i'll be discussing this shortly, but first, the news headlines with tamsin roberts . tamsin roberts. >> michael, thank you. here are the headlines at 1230. well into the headlines at 1230. well into the second half and english are 1—0 down to spain in the women's world cup final . well, for tv world cup final. well, for tv viewers, this is the scene in london. on the left is the huge and hopeful crowd at box park in wembley watching the game on big screens and on the right. hundreds of people have gathered at the fanzone at victoria park in the east. while the nerves are high in north yorkshire too, with supporters hoping for an equaliser in harrogate, england

, still hoping to make history in the women's world cup final . in the women's world cup final. sanna in the women's world cup final. sarina wiegman side is looking to win the competition for the first time. england hasn't lifted the cup since the men claimed victory . lifted the cup since the men claimed victory. in lifted the cup since the men claimed victory . in 1966 lifted the cup since the men claimed victory. in 1966 . lifted the cup since the men claimed victory . in 1966 . the claimed victory. in 1966. the british medical association is calling for hospital managers to be regulated in a similar way to medical staff . the call comes be regulated in a similar way to medical staff. the call comes in the wake of lucy lepage's conviction. the bma says it's deeply worrying that consults who repeatedly raise concerns about the former nurse weren't listened . to a 50 year old man listened. to a 50 year old man will appear in court tomorrow following the major police data breach in northern ireland. he's been charged with possessing documents likely to be useful to terrorists. it's after the details of 10,000 officers and staff were published online by mistake . a new brit school is mistake. a new brit school is set to open in bradford in west yorkshire. the government has confirmed it'll be based on the

award winning performing arts brit school in south london. it helped launch the careers of some of britain's best known artists and actors, including adele, amy winehouse and tom holland . well, you can get more holland. well, you can get more on all of those stories by visiting our website , news.com. visiting our website, news.com. now, though, it's back to michael . michael. >> thank you very much, tamsin. the pros and cons of tourism may be finely balanced outside visitors boost the local economy , but there can be an unwelcome blight for local communities. hordes of stag do's and boozers frequently descend on european cities and prices for locals are inflated by tourism. several hotspots , such as snowdonia, hotspots, such as snowdonia, have experienced an increase in serious incidents . tourists are serious incidents. tourists are accused of drawing on the walls of the colosseum in rome and filling their bottles of water in the trevi fountain. there's nothing new about this. the romantic poet william wordsworth

attacked those who wouldn't lift their noses from their guidebooks, actually to appreciate natural beauty and he wanted the lake district to be kept safe from the molestation of cheap trains pouring out their hundreds at a time along their hundreds at a time along the margin of windermere. close quote. ouch joining me to discuss the pros and cons of mass tourism is travel expert lisa minot lisa, welcome to gb news. as i just said there, this is not a new problem. are we getting any better at grappling with it ? with it? >> well, i think there definitely has been many more attempts in recent years to grapple with the problem of overtourism you have seen regarding , you know, lots of regarding, you know, lots of different countries in europe coming up with various different things that they hope will actually help tackle the problem. >> i think we've got two different of tourism that >> i think we've got two differeto of tourism that >> i think we've got two differeto the)urism that >> i think we've got two differeto the most| that >> i think we've got two differeto the most negative seem to create the most negative headlines, and that's basically the ism where we're the overture ism where we're seeing, know, just far too seeing, you know, just far too many trying go to many people trying to go to quite sort restricted places

quite sort of restricted places . venice, particularly one that is trying to tackle that with a charge. there now a daily charge. there is now a daily charge. there is now a daily charge into the and charge to go into the city and then on top of that you've then got behaviour and got the bad behaviour and unfortunately spirits , we do unfortunately our spirits, we do have a bit of a bad reputation for not us. for that. it's not just us. i would say that we are not the worst , but the two worst offenders, but the two things really give this very negative what tourism is negative idea of what tourism is doing to countries across the globe . globe. >> lisa i mentioned william wordsworth. there who was quite a snob , and of course he really a snob, and of course he really thought there were two sorts of tourists. he thought there were those appreciate the those who could appreciate the beauty of and could beauty of nature and could appreciate the fine monuments of his beloved lake district and then there were the others. and you've just mentioned charging there. i mean, this has quite a close connection to snobbery in the sense that we think the way to protect some of the most precious cities of the world is to charge people money. in other words , to stop poorer people words, to stop poorer people going there and only to allow him people who afford it. him people who can afford it. >> and i totally agree

>> yeah. and i totally agree that this is really i don't think the way forward. we saw recently there was furore with recently there was a furore with the lanzarote and mayor there basically saying they don't want british tourists anymore. they don't tourists who are don't want tourists who are going into sort of and three don't want tourists who are goin accommodation and three don't want tourists who are goin accommodation . and three don't want tourists who are goin accommodation . theythree don't want tourists who are goin accommodation . they only in star accommodation. they only in majorca at the moment. they will only be building basically four and five star hotels. and i really think this is unfair because tourism can be such a force for good. and you know, restricting it to only people who you think are the type who you think are the right type of people to visit country, of people to visit your country, i is really a wrong of i think is really a wrong way of going it . but i think is really a wrong way of going it. but that does going about it. but that does seem what's happening in seem to be what's happening in majorca they're majorca again as well. they're basically every basically saying that every hotel that gets built has hotel room that gets built has another room, has to sort another hotel room, has to sort of disappear. and they're trying to get rid of those little ones. they're the they're trying to get rid of the bars that are bars and restaurants that are traditionally, you know, sort of frequented by lots of brits. i don't think that's the way forward. i mean, i think have forward. i mean, i think we have to locals to understand that for locals living in that are very, living in areas that are very, very busy at certain of very busy at certain times of the , it can yes, of course, the year, it can yes, of course, be very frustrating. but globally, 1 in 10 jobs is

created by tourism. and you can't argue with all the benefits that tourism does bring as long as it's actually done properly. and as you say, i'm not advocating for, you know, vandals using the colosseum or , vandals using the colosseum or, you know, sort of these stag parties that are really going over the top in the likes of amsterdam. not force over the top in the likes of am good. m. not force over the top in the likes of am good. but not force over the top in the likes of am good. but they not force over the top in the likes of am good. but they unfortunately for good. but they unfortunately are the very, very small minority that create this picture that looks like it's the majority doing this. and that's very much not the case. >> it'sjust very much not the case. >> it's just going back to william wordsworth again, who was pouring was talking about people pouring out cheap trains , the modern out of cheap trains, the modern equivalent. and i must say i have it quite is have found it quite shocking, is the cruise ship. i was i was recently in bergen, which is quite small city in norway. quite a small city in norway. and you see a cruise ship come alongside with maybe 5000 people on board who who , you know, on board who who, you know, decant in one go. they simply descend upon this city. well, some of them take coaches and go up into the mountains. but i was i was quite alarmed just by the

proportions of the thing , just proportions of the thing, just to see a ship which which towers over a small city, just to see that the numbers of people coming on one ship are a significant proportion of the total population . total population. >> yeah. and you're very right. and this has created quite a lot of problems. and we've had amsterdam only recently saying they are now banning cruise ships from the centre of amsterdam. they're not going to be allowing any longer. be allowing that any longer. they're to they're going to have to basically have to be sort of stopped sort of the north stopped off at sort of the north sea be if they sea and then be busting if they do and we've do want to do that. and we've seen the same venice again, seen the same with venice again, saying they want saying that they do not want tourism big cruise tourism or those big cruise ships in the centre of their city. now, that does make sense to me. i do that perhaps, to me. i do think that perhaps, you you can ruin a you know, you can ruin a destination something destination by doing something like that. but think you like that. but think again, you have look the that have to look at the fact that these the demand these cruise ships, the demand is there them. got is there for them. they've got ever they've got ever bigger. they've got ever better demand is better because the demand is there and they're able to provide a fantastic holiday, really value . i mean, the really good value. i mean, the pnces really good value. i mean, the prices on some of these cruise ships the moment are ships at the moment are incredible. again , in the

incredible. and again, in the likes you likes of the caribbean, you know, vital part of know, that is a vital part of their economy . these people their economy. these people coming spending their money coming in, spending their money on tours in restaurants, in bars. it's a really vital part of their economy and something that have, they that if they didn't have, they would, it means that would, you know, it means that there's less money in the community in likes community to invest in the likes of conservation basically of conservation and basically the infrastructure of these places. and it can be a force for good. do understand , for good. i do understand, though, they sometimes though, they do sometimes look a little like a floating block though, they do sometimes look a lit'flats like a floating block though, they do sometimes look a lit'flats thate a floating block though, they do sometimes look a lit'flats that ,a floating block though, they do sometimes look a lit'flats that , yes, ating block though, they do sometimes look a lit'flats that , yes, you're lock of flats that, yes, you're right. actually perhaps right. can actually perhaps impact a destination in terms of the way it but as long as the way it looks. but as long as it's managed well, i think it should be something that people are allowed to do, should be allowed these these allowed to go on these on these boats very boats because they are a very good value of travelling . good value way of travelling. >> lisa minow thank you very much. we've been discussing , as much. we've been discussing, as we generally do, a problem which is pretty much insoluble , but is pretty much insoluble, but nonetheless it is interesting to discuss it. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> england are still 1—0 down against spain. let's go live now to jeff moody, who's at a sports bar fans in crystal

bar and fans in crystal concentration , jeff, are the concentration, jeff, are the people down there beginning to give up hope that i wouldn't say we're giving up hope, but certainly things are a little bit more muted than they should be at this stage. >> i mean, that that penalty that was missed was was glorious. there was a huge reaction here. but now, you know, as you can hear , we still know, as you can hear, we still think we're in the game. we still think we've got a chance to win this . but it is only to win this. but it is only getting to be a little chance. but still , getting to be a little chance. but still, you getting to be a little chance. but still , you know, the sun but still, you know, the sun shining and the drinks are flowing and we are in the cup final, the world cup finals. so it's certainly a good day to be british. thank you very much, jeff . jeff. >> i think i just about got the message there. thank you . our message there. thank you. our british vineyards heading for a bumper year ahead . i'll be bumper year ahead. i'll be asking one of the leading uk vineyards whether we can expect excellent british bubbly this

gb news radio . gb news radio. >> it's not entirely clear at this point whether we will be opening this to celebrate an england victory in sydney, but whilst british people have been complaining about a summer of autumnal weather, wine producers have benefited a dry june

followed by a wet july, will provide a bumper yield for the vineyards in the united kingdom estate in surrey includes england's largest vineyard. joining me now is chris white and janetta simpson from denbigh. well, tell us about this bumper harvest . was this this bumper harvest. was this was this expected? and how unusual? >> well, we had the perfect conditions this year at the beginning of the year. >> you're under threat of frost, which will determine how much volume potentially have. >> it can be catastrophic . we >> it can be catastrophic. we have lost up to 70, 70% before on a bad frost. we didn't have a frost. this year, which was fantastic. then it's down to the fruit set when the flowers come out. conditions out. and again, the conditions were perfect for fruit set. out. and again, the conditions were [was ct for fruit set. out. and again, the conditions were [was very' fruit set. out. and again, the conditions were [was very little ruit set. out. and again, the conditions were [was very little rain set. there was very little rain dunng there was very little rain during that period and then it was just you need a good a good summer, but you do need some rain to make sure your rain as well to make sure your bunch so this rain as well to make sure your bun

going to get on with this now. what am i opening here? >> that's our greenfield and it's a traditional sparkling and generic. we just a bit more about it. >> this is chris said, this is our classic trio, so it's pinot noir, chardonnay and pinot meunier and this is our sparkling wine that we make every year. so it's non—vintage . and it's got notes. it's similar to the champagne style. >> yes . now, i similar to the champagne style. >> yes. now, i have similar to the champagne style. >> yes . now, i have been similar to the champagne style. >> yes. now, i have been hearing that because of global warming and all that , that southern and all that, that southern england is now the perfect place to make this style of wine, that this is where we get the perfect balance of acidity and fruit . is balance of acidity and fruit. is that correct? >> absolutely, yes . >> absolutely, yes. >> absolutely, yes. >> so should we see whether whether whether that is a credible claim . i would say it's

credible claim. i would say it's absolutely delicious. and i mean, this is the one thing i've learned, that it's the balance of acidity and fruit. that's right. absolutely right. and right. is absolutely right. and that does like a very that does look like a very good balance . i you, balance. may i ask you, what does retail for ? what would balance. may i ask you, what does thatail for ? what would balance. may i ask you, what does that in for ? what would balance. may i ask you, what does that in a r ? what would balance. may i ask you, what does that in a shop hat would balance. may i ask you, what does that in a shop hat thisld you buy that in a shop for this retails 26, £27? retails for about 26, £27? >> how much? sorry, 26. £27? yes >> how much? sorry, 26. £27? yes >> so these wines are not cheap. they're they're comparable with some of the cheaper, but not the cheapest champagnes. some of the cheaper, but not the cheapest champagnes . absolutely. cheapest champagnes. absolutely. but i guess people have to get used to the idea that these wines let's make a bold statement. these wines are better than the worst champagnes, aren't they? >> well, definitely . we win. >> well, definitely. we win. we're international we're winning international awards. not only comparable, we're winning international awawe're not only comparable, we're winning international awawe're beatingly comparable, we're winning international awawe're beatingly compathe e, but we're beating some of the best champagne know , best champagne names. you know, which are renowned names around the world. and i think people we have a big visitor centre there. so we give people an understanding what goes into their their sparkling wine. and once they understand that it's all picked hand, all being picked by hand, it's been pressed . it's

been a whole bunch pressed. it's been a whole bunch pressed. it's been the carefully nurtured and matured. it's been in bottled in for another three years. i think once they understand the complexity, what goes into their bottle wine, they have a bottle of wine, they have a greater and what greater appreciation of and what to look for the wines , but to look for in the wines, but also understanding why the pnces also understanding why the prices little higher prices are a little bit higher for producing handcrafted product. >> and go up the scale, >> and if we go up the scale, what is top product ? what is your top product? >> so we produce . it's called >> so we produce. it's called our cube. it blonde noir and that's a single varietal pinot noir. and that we sell that for about £33. >> that's right . so that's not >> that's right. so that's not off the scale. >> no , it's that's on lees for >> no, it's that's on lees for longer. i think at the moment we're on the 2030 15 vintage. it's a premium wine. it has won multiple awards and, and it just shows the best example . so we shows the best example. so we don't produce as much volume of it. the greenfields , as i said, it. the greenfields, as i said, we produce that every single yeah we produce that every single year. the cubic it is more it's because it's just the pinot noir

. so therefore we don't produce as much of it in a volume . as much of it in a volume. >> this is all expanding , isn't >> this is all expanding, isn't it? people are continuing to plant vineyards. that's right . plant vineyards. that's right. tell me about the rate of expansion. is it happening within denbighshire, for example? >> it is. i mean, there's a huge amount expansion . i've been amount of expansion. i've been involved the industry involved in the industry for 30 years and the demand for english sparkling has never been greater. and therefore , the greater. and therefore, the amount vineyards are amount of vineyards which are expanding and the size per vineyard has grown dramatically over the period that i've been involved in the industry . i involved in the industry. i mean, planting millions of mean, we're planting millions of vines a year, which is i mean, in the early days we probably had a million vines in the whole country 30 odd years so country 30 odd years ago. so it's growing dramatically . it's growing dramatically. >> where do you get them from? are they are these vines that are transplanted from france? >> so we bought a lot of >> yes. so we bought a lot of the rootstock comes france the rootstock comes from france and from germany . and some may come from germany. and experiencing climate and as we experiencing climate change, we're experimenting with varieties that we've really struggled with growing before in the and we're growing things

the uk and we're growing things like solving on blanc and varieties, again varieties, which would again have been dreamt about in years gone by. >> we have two other bottles here, but i see we only have three glasses, so we better settle on one or the other at this fellow is interesting to me because this apparently is an orange wine. so first of all, tell me what is meant by an orange wine, because orange salaries. >> so it's a white wine that is made in the same way that a red wine is made. so it has a skin contact. it does produce a slight amber hue and it's more robust . so slight amber hue and it's more robust. so it's more similar in characteristic to a red wine style . it's very good with food style. it's very good with food i >> -- >> yes.a >> yes . a slight amber hue might >> yes. a slight amber hue might . when you sent that to me, i thought you know, i thought i was going to be looking at something which was absolutely orange, you like top orange, you know, like the top of not at all. of the bottle, but not at all. it has a slight amber hue . let

it has a slight amber hue. let me serve you one as well. apparently, there may be some more glasses in building, more glasses in the building, which be great. right. do which would be great. right. do you want to talk us through this one? >> so this one will have more tropical notes . and it certainly has. >> it's got a very big nose, hasn't it? >> it has, yes. >>— >> it has, yes. >> are you talking about that earlier in a different context? but yes, now the tropical notes. so what fruits are you getting there then you would be looking at guava . at guava. >> yeah, yeah, yeah . >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> no, i've don't come across this sort of wine in england before . where is denbigh? well, before. where is denbigh? well, it's in dorking, which is in surrey. >> so it's literally 30 miles away from central london. so has this been a bit of an adventure for you? >> this one? >> this one? >> has. we try and push the >> it has. we try and push the envelope of what we can produce in uk , and we've had a lot in the uk, and we've had a lot of surprises over the years. we were ago not to were told 30 years ago not to

bother , for bother with pinot noir, for example. the example. and again, it's the most planted grape in most planted grape variety in the now so things have the uk. now so things have changed. obviously climate has changed, but also we've had to be honest and what we can grow well here in the uk and you know, high award winning know, very high award winning sparkling wines , fruity aromatic sparkling wines, fruity aromatic wines or really what we can grow very well in england . very well in england. >> are you battling against prejudice ? i mean, do people prejudice? i mean, do people basically think that sparkling wine ought to come from france at a from spain or italy ? at a pinch from spain or italy? >> i don't think so. i think that historically. that was historically. but i think beyond that now. i think we're beyond that now. i think we're beyond that now. i think english wine production is serious. it's a serious business. the amount of vineyards now in the uk has is goodness. i mean, i think there are about over a thousand now. so it's being taken seriously and that's very good news. >> i have there was no popping of a cork because this was a screw cap . this is called surrey

screw cap. this is called surrey gold. that's right. that refers to your place of origin. surrey. that's right. the terroir of surrey. >> and we've we've been producing this wine for now 30 years. so it was one of the first wines we produced. >> and again , it's our most >> and again, it's our most popular wine. it's our one of our level wines and it's our entry level wines and it's an dry wine . and it just an off dry wine. and it just seems to be very popular with our customers. seems to be very popular with our customers . and it has been our customers. and it has been since the day we opened off dry. >> yes, there's a certain fruitiness to that . oh, i see. fruitiness to that. oh, i see. the picture on people's screens now is just of wine. we're not in it at all. but we are very ah, we're back on. >> well , well now will ah, we're back on. >> well, well now will paul scotland ever get a look in on this. >> well how far north can we have a vineyard at the moment ? have a vineyard at the moment? >> uh , there are some vineyards >> uh, there are some vineyards in yorkshire . in yorkshire. >> i mean, there's a huge collaboration of a vineyard is how far up do they go? >> yeah, there is talk of

vineyard in scotland , and i know vineyard in scotland, and i know wales has become a bigger wine industry there, which is growing a few years. so areas in which you would have thought it would just be impossible to it just be impossible to grow it all of all having quite a lot of success lot of success with it and a lot of vineyards around the world, whether spain or whether it be in spain or france, of vineyards france, a lot of their vineyards are moving northerly to ensure that they can produce the same style that they used to style of wines that they used to growing climate change growing their climate change bnngs growing their climate change brings us so much misery , brings us so much misery, doesn't it? >> and the prospects are so appalling. it's good to have one consolation, which is that really excellent wine is now being made britain . and i being made in britain. and i mean, knows, maybe we will mean, who knows, maybe we will have an opportunity to raise our glasses to england , because i glasses to england, because i certainly don't yet know the final result. that's i think, pretty much all we've got time for this week. thank you both very much for coming in. and good luck with wine making in in dorking . thank you for coming dorking. thank you for coming from denby . i won't be back next from denby. i won't be back next week, but i will be back in two weeks time. it's been a

marvellous program . thank you marvellous program. thank you very much for being with me. thank you for watching. emily carver will be here at 1:00 in. meanwhile, i wish you all a wonderful rest of your sunday. bye bye . bye bye. >> looks like things are heating up . boxed boilers proud sponsors up. boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> hello . i am dan stroud, and >> hello. i am dan stroud, and this is your latest gb news forecast from the met office . so forecast from the met office. so we currently have high pressure to the south of the country and further to the north we have this big area of low pressure and that helping to keep it and that is helping to keep it generally unsettled. the further north and west you are . we north and west you are. we currently have thicker cloud without breaks of rain pushing in across parts of northern ireland and north west scotland. further to the south and east across much of england and wales, largely dry . and with wales, largely dry. and with those clear skies overnight, temperatures dipping low enough for some mist and fog patches to actually form by dawn. but these

figures, these temperatures largely staying in double figures overnight. so that's a bright start to monday morning. we have any mist and fog across the extreme south and east, quick to actually lift it further to the north. we do have that thicker cloud and rain starting to actually push in dunng starting to actually push in during the course of the day across parts of scotland and northern ireland and the winds will also be freshening up through the irish sea . and with through the irish sea. and with those slightly breezier conditions , despite the fact conditions, despite the fact that these temperatures are higher values we saw higher than the values we saw on sunday, feel slightly sunday, it will feel slightly chillier there . so on chillier out there. so on tuesday , that band of cloud and tuesday, that band of cloud and rain will continue to push southwards into england and wales. and that changeable theme continues for the rest of the week with temperatures peaking on wednesday . bye for now . looks on wednesday. bye for now. looks like things are heating up . like things are heating up. >> boxed boilers proud sponsors of weather on . gb news. of weather on. gb news. >> i'm andrew doyle.

>> i'm andrew doyle. >> join me at 7:00 every sunday night for free speech nation. the show right tackle the week's biggest in politics and biggest stories in politics and current affairs. >> with the help my two >> with the help of my two comedian panellists and a variety guests . variety of special guests. >> free speech nation sunday nights from seven on gb news. the people's

or. or or. or or . or .

or. or or. or or. or. hello and welcome to news sunday. >> i'm emily calvin. and for the next two hours, i'll be keeping you company on tv, online, and digital radio. so coming up this houn digital radio. so coming up this hour, all eyes are on the world cup final as england try to find a way to draw level with spain in the very final minutes. we'll be you up date on be keeping you up to date on that. be going to aidan that. i'll be going to aidan magee one moment. and magee in just one moment. and yet another tory civil war. the home office is set to be split, divided suella braverman and divided as suella braverman and robert argue over the robert jenrick argue over the migration crisis. is this why they're not stopping the boats and hospital bosses are in the firing line as police are urged to investigate those who fail to act over baby killer lucy letby . what can we learn about the nhs bosses who treated letby as the victim? i'll ask a psychotherapist then coming up at the end of the hour, france is failing to stop small boat crossings. they've stopped fewer than last year despite £480 million from the uk. should we demand our money back? i'll ask a frenchman what he