prosecute the president engagement unit peaceful civil rights protest if it delayed of congressional proceeding. if that will be one as a country? >> harris: which boggles the mind the guy who pulled the fire alarm. what do you face? we have just a few seconds there just a few quick thoughts? >> this is what i think people should be very concerned that so much of the lot right now is look to a political prism. how do we get donald trump? and i am hoping, that the justices do not do that. i would accept that they don't -- some of the questions edge a little too closely, but this could be a 63 case. we will see. and it would be a big red not just for president trump for future presidents. >> harris: okay. great. we are so glad that you were with us to help break that down after the u.s. supreme court finished its discussion for today. okay. here is

>> up my constitutional rights have been taken away from a. but every single expert, every legal scholar, ever respected scholar has said this is no case, there is no case here. this is just a political witch hunt. election interference this is the way they think they will get elected but i guess based on what i am looking at -- >> john: former president donald trump sounding off on his way into court this morning as a third day of testimony underway in his new york criminal trial. i am john roberts in washington we will be watching this for the next two hours. b2 what a day it is i'm sandra smith in new york this is america report. the prosecution picking up where it left off on tuesday with more questions for experts witness david fentanyl the "national enquirer" reported telling about trump's alleged affair with karen mcdougal and the efforts to give that from going public. >> john: the manhattan d.a.'s office also accusing president trump of violating the

court's gag order again as we await a decision from george marchand. and it to react to any live updates from the court room. >> sandra: starting outside the court in new york city, air, what do you have? >> hi -- under the -- any moment now for lunch. they have heard this morning from stormy daniels. turns out she wanted twothousand dollars -- $200,000 -- >> sandra: we will start with eric's audio he has good stuff but we will get back with that report. >> john: sounds like a microphone battery we will get back and meantime let's bring in our panel, law attorney and a fox news contributor, we have to add a couple more titles to t that. and former counselor to

attorney general bill barr and fox news editor, leo trial is a attorney and fox news contributor. so let's start with you, carrie, you were in the courtroom on tuesday, i believe it was, for the proceedings in person. they are really hammering in here with david pecker who was it who authorized the payment to karen mcdougal? at one point pecker asked michael cohen who will pay me back for the $150,000 for karen mcdougal? and cohan said don't worry, the boss will take care of a. where do you think we are with where we have heard so far? >> pecker said he and trump had some sort of gentlemen's agreement on how this would w work. again this was a mutually beneficial relationship according to pecker. donald trump apparently sold the most magazines from them than anyone else and he said something like 80% of his "national enquirer" readers wanted donald trump to win the presidency if he ran so he saw

this as an opportunity when donald trump decided to run to both help his business but also help the former president's campaign as well. as far as what we have learned so far we have learned a lot about the cd feelings of tabloid culture in new york city. we have not learned anything with respect to the crime at issue. i think the state is attempting to hone in on this vague new york election law that's says conspiring to influence an election through unlawful means, that's what they are trying to get them on. the question is terkel points really, one, conspiring to influence an election is called "running for office" and two, they have not identified what the unlawful means are but we are getting a lot of gossip out of david pecker and in his testimony. >> sandra: jonathan, to you, break down what you believe we have learned so far. >> the most striking aspect to me is how michael cohen drove

these events. at one point david pecker said that he started to yell at him. something he often does, apparently. when he wasn't going to transfer the rights of the story to trump. there is this disconnect where you will have the former attorney to donald trump, michael cohen, get on the stand and effectively asked the jury to convict his former client for following his advice. so what the jury's hearing over and over again is how michael cohen took all these steps, came up with all of these methods and some of which by the way david pecker would not do periods by the end they will then have to associate any criminality, whatever that may be, to trump himself. it so i think that disconnect is getting wider the more we hear this testimony. >> john: leo terrell, again, the issue at hand here is what

really is the underlying crime? carey has been watching this trial since it started again she was there in the courtroom. she came out asking the same question, where is the crime here? because as it was pointed out a moment to go by our esteemed colleague mr. turley, that running for office is trying to influence and in effect an election and a law professor at boston university had a very interesting guest essay in "the new york times" where he said "i thought the break a case against trump was a legal embarrassment. now i think it's a historic mistake. your thoughts, leo? >> i agree with carrie and professor turley and the article. let me be very clear. there has been no crime established. when you are presenting a case in the opening days you are trying to get the jury's attention. i will submit to you, john, that the jury is saying where is the crime at? where is the evidence of

president trump doing wrong? you have a person in michael cohen who has not been on the witness stand but he is the center of attention. i will submit to you when he gets cross-examined, when the defense team gets a chance to cross-examine david pecker and michael cohen you will see basically an explosion of credibility issues being raised. i guarantee you so far the prosecution is not showing any evidence of a crime against president trump. >> sandra: carrie, give us an idea as we saw the president a moment ago he did not step in front of the microphone, what we are watching for now? >> we will continue to hear from david pecker and i think it's important to listen to when he said michael cohen told me x and here is why a. we don't know if michael cohen was telling the truth of the time. david pecker doesn't even know. and his "effexor" and we don't know how much of what he was saying was pecker was b.s. and

not rub it on and what donald trump wanted. i think when cohan takes the stand and is cross-examined i think you will see in this it will be at the end of the day michael cohen's word to others versus the former president's. >> john: we have a couple of producers in the courtroom today funneling notes to us so i thought it would be worthwhile hearing one of the latest notes about david pecker's testimony because it's very interesting about a meeting he had with trump at trump tower. the email reads as follows pecker heard a call that trump went for a meeting at trump tower. he'd never seen security like that in his life. jared kushner tapped him on the shoulder and took him upstairs to the 24th floor and walked to trump's office and this time trump was president-elect in 17. pecker entered a waiting room and keith schiller, you are member he was there sort of the head of presidential security on the trump organization side, he

said how is our girl, which would seem to be a reference to karen mcdougal. a pecker said she is cool, very quiet, no issues. keith was excited about going to washington. mike pompeo and others were updating trump on the fort lauderdale airport shooting one pecker entered the room. from introduced pecker to everyone in the room saying "he probably knows more than anyone else in this room" pecker says unfortunately they did not laugh, little courtroom color, trump smirked and laughed as pecker retold that story. trump according to pecker's headed "how is our girl doing?" he said i want to thank you for handling the mcdougall situation and i want to thank you for the doorman situation. that was the doorman who was paid $30,000 by "national enquirer" for a story he had about trump apparently fathering an illegitimate baby which turned out to be completely false, but jonathan, they do seem to be zeroing in here. the prosecutor is on whether or not catching and killing the karen mcdougal story was to

protect trump personally in his marriage or whether it was to protect the campaign. pecker says it was for the campaign. is there any vulnerability th there? >> there is not supposed to be legal vulnerability because there is no crime there. even if this was politically motivated, it's not a campaign contribution and a violation of federal law. the department of justice chose not to charge that. it sort of the general premise of zapping this dead misdemeanor back in the life. but the interesting thing about that exchange in the story that was given is that there is lots of motivations but not just for trump but for pecker. pecker said look i was doing this in part because i thought it would help my magazine. trump may have been doing it for all of the above reasons, but it is not illegal to kill a story like this. the most telling aspect of that account is reference to the doorman story. that story was untrue and yet they still wanted to kill it,

right? so there is a motivation to kill true or untrue stories that will help you politically. obviously trump could have expended the next few weeks swatting down this arduous scandalous suggestion he had a child out of wedlock coming from a doorman in new york. it's that they killed the story. that happens a lot. bill clinton had the virtual 101st airborne of lawyers working for him putting out all of the scandals of all the women. that's what a lot of these politicians have to do. they are not criminal acts. >> sandra: leo, finally to you on the clinical applications of all of this as we know recent polling fox news polling shows that a majority or i should say 46% see this as illegal activity. motors how they see trump's behavior in this case 46% see it as illegal. almost as many see it as unethical but not illegal or that he did nothing wrong at a

all. but when asked voters on whether this case impacts their vote, 62% say it makes no difference. what do you believe is the political fallout as he continues to sit in the courtroom? >> sandor, let me answer that question very directly, zero. the democrats have failed to basically dirty up trump through the legal process it has failed. look at the fox poll's coming look at the most recent polls, the trump of voter will not leave trump. he is going to keep that base of support. this is the weakest of all the cases that have been presented against it donald trump. this criminal case is really a case that people even on the left, sandra, believe that was a weak case and should have never been brought especially from alvin bragg who should be working on crime that really takes place in new york. >> john: we should mention court has broken for lunch. donald trump exited the

courtroom, he did not say any thing on the way out. it is possible he will on the way back in. court is scheduled to resume at 2:15 p.m. gentleman and carry if you could stand by, we would love to come back to you sometime over the next hour and 45 minutes. >> sandra: they are standing by we will take a quick break, john, we will be right back. >> john: all right i'm jonathan lawson, here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's.

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>> what is happening at the colleges is a disgrace. all over the world people are laughing at us. >> john: former president trump at that stark rebuke over what is happening at columbia university in new york city. meanwhile protests like that when our continuing on college campuses around the country. cb cotton is live outside columbia university. how are they going to get the students to move, because they

have not been very successful yet. >> hi, john, they haven't. and columbia's leaders say they will continue negotiating through at least midnight with the student protesters who have now refused to leave a campus lawn for more than a week. in the meantime, john, there is a united for israel at rally this evening and signs of solidarity are starting to emerge across the campus, take a look at this. of jewish students have placed is really american flags across the campus for the rally but now some of the pro-palestinian students who have camped out are chanting and marching around those flags. just yesterday house speaker mike johnson said military force could be on the table to clear out the protesters hence because he will urge president biden to use it but the protesters did not care and they booed out johnson's voice. >> enjoy your free speech.

[chanting] into israel encampments -- >> the university says pro-palestinian student protesters have agreed to remove tents and nonstudents from the encampment and cracked down any discriminatory language, but right now the lawn does not look much different than it did earlier in the week. some jewish students tell fox no matter how many concessions or testers make as long as the encampment is up they will feel unwelcome to. you know other students who are not of the jewish faith they too say they are ready for the semester to end. >> if you just can't bear the view of people protesting on campus all the time and wishing death to your jewish students then it's also not the right place for you to be on campus anymore. >> similar protests are happening on other campuses across the country. dozens of protesters at the university of southern california and university of texas austin were taken into custody on wednesday afternoon.

john, the united for israel march begins at 6:30 p.m. eastern i should say here at columbia university and we will be monitoring, back to you. >> john: cb cotton for us with the latest outside of columbia university and sandra, it really is a unique situation there columbia because usc they cleared out the protesters, it el they are abreast of the protesters. and university of texas they cleared out the protesters. this idea of bringing in the national guard, it's private property so it's unlikely that the college would ever do that and the idea they are just negotiating with these folks to get them out i think shows what columbia university's position on this really is. >> sandra: indeed ended emerge as a stark difference right away. as we are watching a protests play out in texas yesterday, how those were being handled versus how those protests were being handled in new york city, john. >> john: interesting to yesterday there was a story at foxnews.com the comedian john lomax had a few things to say

about the protesters at columbia university. he was on fox last night with jesse. listen to what he said. >> i am thinking these kids are in high school, they work their butt off to get to a great school like columbia and now they have to deal with this and it is horrible. and i said i wanted to say something to help them, you know? like you said, it's like weeds. if you don't nip it in the blood it will keep spreading and get worse and worse. we have seen it get worse and worse. >> sandra: that is what's happening. he was dumb xp when he was quite harsh for the protesters suggesting they may not have all of the information at hand. he was not quite so -- he was nuts quite so -- >> sandra: he was not delicate about it. >> sandra: now this. >> assuming you have the right person that can make a difference you sell it for four years when i was president. we were respected all over the world. we had the best economy we've

ever had, everything was good. we had no wars, we defeated isis come we had no wars, we had known nothing. we were respected all over the world and now it is a disgrace. >> sandra: more from donald trump on his way into court, they are on a break right now is the criminal court continues with testimony from david pecker. our next guest has first-hand experience defending the former president and he joins us now. let's bring informal trump trump attorney and doj prosecutors jim trustee, great to see you. they give coming on today. here in new york city shortly, what are your thoughts as you have been watching on what has struck you so far? >> than on criminality of this case continues to strike me. i mean, right now with the prosecution what they are doing is walking through tawdry scandalous distasteful stuff that does not actually constitute anything criminal. i mean, if nondisclosure agreements were criminal congress would be in prison right now is the amount of the

nda's. lo, the whole thing is so suspect. they never really had to even clarify how they could fill in eyes these misdemeanors into something that survives the statute of limitations. so it is a frustrating case to see if you believe in the criminal justice system but i have to tell you when it comes to this guy's testimony i would not expect a bunch of fireworks. if you handle this the right way on the defense, all focus is on michael cohen's credibility. get a friendly cross-examination out from mr. pecker when that day comes but basically keep riveting focused on cohen because that's the weakness, the achilles tendon of this sham trial. >> john: we keep hearing time and time again from all of our analysts and other observers where is the crime here? but in this initial phase of the prosecution, it's not whether or not there was an actual crime it's what the jury believes. however, you could get a jury of 12 people, particularly given the politics of new york to

convict donald trump potentially on these charges but then it is on appeal where the rubber may really hit the road judicially. based on what you know of this trial so far, if the prosecutor could get a conviction through a jury, is there plenty of grounds to reverse this? >> absolutely. legal frailty through and through. that is a long road. he could take a year or two before you get a resolution of it and in the meantime, there'll be all sorts of celebrations of the demise of president trump if he succumbs to this case. look, i think notwithstanding the overaggressive, creative nature of this case and that's what i really cry foul about. if you are going a presidential candidate and a former president we should not be using the word "created" or "unique" or "historic" it's things we know are criminal from the beginning. if you are bribing and getting gold bricks in your house to help out a foreign government, that is stuff we are used to being criminalized. not these shenanigans of making

stuff up on the fly. rambo, president trump only needs to get 1 out of 12. if he can get a juror or two to say we won't bite off on a case not necessarily for all of these procedural fouls and legal frailty is but we don't want to be living in michael cohen, that could win back the day where we don't worry about it. >> john: then it's a mistrial and they have to decide whether or not to try him again. >> sandra: former president has a lot of decisions coming up to make and one of them is whether or not to testify in his own defense. if you were advising and what would you say on this? >> i was absolutely not. ultimately is always the client's decisions. the lawyers can only would shut him so long and tell them why it's a bad idea. number one the judge already made up luminary findings on a number of prior unrelated incidents like e. jean carroll's verdict like they're all fair game for cross-examination and fairly or unfairly it will distract from the issue at land which is cohen's credibility. what i would say is let's not

help out the prosecution by creating a distraction from the fundamental flaw of cohen being a failed cooperator, a perjurer, guy up until yesterday had gone on tv every night to help us with his cross-examination. and not distract from that. i think you kind of force him to stay in the chair because i think that's the best tactic here. >> john: jimmy, watching the supreme court earlier today whether or not formal president trump's immunity from prosecution on january 6th and the election interfere case because he was president at the time. and some of the questions challenging that whole notion of whether or not you could have presidential immunity ran too well what happens if he takes a bribe to appoint somebody, an ambassador or could he get seal team six to assassinate a rival and not face criminal charges for that? so really, where does the line fall in terms of presidential immunity? >> we will find out.

but look, the way they other argument one and the way the court divided on political or philosophical lines is it seems the justices from the liberal side of the bench were opposed to any form of immunity and they were kind of touting out the idea that he is not the king, he is not the king. i think you have to remember and i think the conservative justices are doing this, you have to remove the context. we are watching these trials pop up even yesterday an indictment popping up where prosecutors are not necessarily acting in good faith. they are not letting the system check their behavior in any fashion. i don't think that is lost on the conservative majority of the supreme court. i think they look at yes, historically they are going back to marjorie versus madison looking at article two and if there is a basis for some form of immunity but i think they are gravitating towards what a lot of us predict which is some form of almost qualified immunity. its immunity for acts within the outer reaches of your presidential responsibilities. very hard to define. but not for purely personal

things. seal team six i will kill my rival, purely personal, you will never have immunity. spewing trump's attorney tried to say that was to the benevolence of the country. >> when they were in front of the d.c. circuit for a bit on a hypo that hurt them the seal team six hypo. i would've walked away from it entirely by now. i think they have a much better chance not winning on the idea of absolute king can do no wrong immunity but on this more qualified form of it which i think has a real chance of winning the day. but keep in mind, if you establish the rules like the supreme court might do, we'll probably go back for more and more litigation by all of these trial courts did these particular acts full within or without those continuant and guess what, an appeal so we may not be coming back to the supreme court over and over again saying for jay six, four mar-a-lago, for georgia, is this official or personal? and that's what the dividing line i think we'll end up being. >> sandra: right to have you want today, thank you. >> john: thank you so much.

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policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. >> sandra: there were some pointed questions on strong arguments as the supreme court weighs the election interference case against former president donald trump and his claim against presidential immunity. fox news sunday anchor sharon bream is outside the court for us right now. shannon, what so far have we learned? >> sander, the justices are taking this very seriously. something in the neighborhood of almost three arguments slated for 1 hour and they were parsing back and forth with both attorneys tough questions for both sides of this argument giving them plenty of time to flush this out. just a stalevo seemed to have one of the themes which is there is a will worry if they do not allow some kind of immunity for

presidents that there will be great worry is that the moment someone is out of office, a contentious election, we have seen a few in recent years, that the person who loses they will feel they are an immediate threat to be prosecuted or going to jail. on the other side of the coin just as ketanji brown jackson was worried about what happens of this course makes the decision given broad sweeping immunity against criminal actively for a former president from when he was in office, here is some more if we are talking about that particular concern. >> if someone with those kinds of powers the most powerful person in the world with the greatest amount of authority could go into office knowing that there would be no potential penalty for committing crime, i am trying to understand what the disincentive is from turning the oval office into the seat of criminal activity in this country.

>> so all kinds of scenarios were discussed like taking bribes, things about ordering a hit on a political opponent, that they also discussed real-life examples. for example drone strikes by president obama. should he faced some kind of the legal liability for that? what about lbj? did he lie about what was happening in vietnam? could that be prosecuted? the court will have to wrestle with those very difficult questions. a private boat and start working on the opinion and we will stand by and wait as well the trump legal team to see what impact it has on their cases moving forward. >> sandra: shannon reporting her way over the music outside of the supreme court [laughs] very well done thank you, sharon. >> very festive today. >> sandra: apparently so, john? >> john: sprang our legal panel with jonathan and leo, jonathan let's start with you what you make of the immunity arguments at the court this morning and the idea of you

can't give a president complete immunity because there are likely some things a president could be prosecuted for. but you give some sort of limited immunity and how do you draw that line? >> i think there were points in that argument that should it be viewed as quite positive for the trump team. first of all you had roughly four justices referring to sending this back for further deliberations. if they do that, it's hard to imagine the trial judge getting a trial before the election and if trump is reelected you may not have any real trial at all. the argument went along the lines of what many of us had predicted. it's the justices seemed equally uncomfortable with the sweeping arguments of the trump team and the sweeping decision by the d.c. circuit. i thought the real haymaker of the argument was delivered by chief justice john roberts who was openly mocking of the d.c. circuit with which had this awful standard where they said well, a president can be

prosecuted effectively when he is prosecuted. that is they have this line that suggested the fact of prosecution meant the acts could be prosecuted. chief justice roberts legitimately said what type of standard is that? don't we have to have something more? all of those comments would suggest there are justices sort of groping in the dark here for a middle road of. where there may be some immunity for public acts, official acts, but not private acts. >> sandra: interesting analysis they are, carry. i felt i learned as we were all listening together a lot from the questioning from supreme court justice neil gorsuch. and it was his questions followed up by amy coney barrett, ketanji brown jackson, they'll reference back to them. what was your take away? >> i was struck by i thought the extreme positions of both sides.

we have donald trump arguing absolute immunity for all official from criminal prosecution from all official acts and you had the department of justice arguing zero immunity. i thought to myself how can a president function if they have no immunity whatsoever from criminal prosecution for their official acts? brett kavanaugh, who i worked for, when he was going through his confirmation process, i thought he raised some very interesting points. he talked about how troubled he was for the trajectory of the american presidency. if they were to side with the department of justices approach which is this zero immunity, this pastor, so i was also struck by the dojs argument of don't worry about it because prosecutions are not politically motivated. we take both about that kind of stuff and i thought how could you possibly say that given what we are all watching happen in new york? and secondly, the person who made that argument was on the special counsel bob mueller's

team which we all know what that was a two-year $35 million investigation that was driven by politics and failed. >> john: so, leah, the argument comes down here too it seems the court is considering is -- was trying to challenge the election a public act or a private act? like a president may have immunity from ordering drone strikes from the heads of terrorist organizations but of a president poisoned his cabinet because he doesn't like them that could be considered a private act. one in that pantheon does challenging a result of an election fall? >> you have the trump team talking about the challenging of the election as an official acts. you also heard the make reference the trump attorney talked about president grant sitting down federal troops to louisiana. i think he made that argument. i want to be very clear. you notice the difference the

quality richness of the arguments on the supreme court level? and what john roberts had about the court, it was generic. you had very detailed analysis over the last two hours. now another point, justice barrett raised a little nugget about the issue of state prosecution. whether or not the president immunity goes there. i hope the trials judge in new york heard that. the one critique i would have against the trump attorney. you never, never, never, never, never waved a rebuttal argument. i heard when he did that i was shocked. you always have the last word. he abandon the last word, shame on him. >> jonathan, what do you think about that? >> at the same time i was quite surprised. i have never seen a rebuttal waived because there was a lot there still on the table.

i thought the council for the special counsel was really struggling at points. at others he was able to eat out some good solid ground. that is your chance to come in there and hit hard without any rebuttal coming from the other side. i was surprised by that. i also have to echo the view of the counsel for the special counsel who said you know, the protection here is basically we are the government, we are here to help you. that space is what is argument is. we are the department of justice, perish the thought that we would ever go after someone for political purposes. and that led people like which said that you have a long history of some horrible stuff. it comes as sort of backed up but the point of the justices was still a good one but we

don't really like the base, the status come of the stability of the presidency of we are the government we are here to help you. >> john: some of the most terrifying words of english language, we are the government we are here to help you. the court will be back in session and 33.5 minutes. >> sandra: and always a chance the former president could talk on his way in. meanwhile david pecker will be back on the witness stand in that new york criminal trial against the former president. soon trump's team will get the chance to cross-examine him. how will they pick apart the prosecution's check case? what's the strategy? what's the strategy? we have criminal defense attorney mark who is standing by some things should stand the test of time. long lasting eylea hd could significantly improve your vision and can help you go up to 4

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>> john: new developments in

our southern border as fox news cameras capture a new surge of migrants in el paso, texas. border officials say those groups are growing larger as nearby town it is a nearby town in new mexico battles human smuggling. live from el paso dana, what are you seeing on the river today? >> i can tell you, john, that community in new mexico says they see a lot of activity in terms of the things the community has to deal with. like assaults on law enforcement officers. extortion, child abuse as well as crime all linked to that sophisticated smuggling operation and the local d.a. is putting their foot down saying sending a message to those cartels the criminals will be prosecuted. now, that to d.a., the dona county says says this is a public safety matter. these are not immigration related cases but rather criminal acts that involve out of illegal immigrant.

>> there is a active criminal out there working every day to facilitate modern slavery and human smuggling and making a profit off of human beings. that to me is un-american. that is despicable and that is what needs to be stopped. >> right now you are looking at someone park in new mexico which is popular for smuggling guides watching out for barden, come aboard a patrol because area is along the border they will put them along the hillside grade these smugglers threw rocks at our fox drone team as we tried to capture their process. once in the u.s. migrants have been seeing running through and we even heard, john, they had to close down a local middle school because those migrants made on campus. >> john: dana marie mcnichol

for us, none of those guys throw rocks at the yan drone will make yankees. >> sandra: waiting for the trial of donald trump to be underway it's mark eiglarsh who is joining us ahead of the former president's return to the court room.

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>> sandra: david pecker will return to the stand in new york's criminal trial against former president donald trump shortly. once the prosecution wraps the former president's team will have its first opportunity to cross-examine the witness. a lot about to happen let's bring in criminal defense attorney mark eiglarsh. set this up for us and what you expect to hear out of that courtroom. >> i expect a defense not to eviscerate this guide. i think they will utilize him to help the defense position. he will say you are catching and buying out these stories for years. it was not just because of the election and that buying out stories is not unlawful. not only does trump do it, thousands of celebrities to it.

it's the cost of doing business. people come forth with true allegations and cash grabs. you have to bury that so it does not affect your brand. i think the defense has to have him serve as an expert witness to help the defense and to say nothing is going on. >> john: two issues with david pecker. there was the karen mcdougal issue where she was paid $150,000 for her life story, which then the "national enquirer" never pursued. and then this doorman who had heard some rumors about trump being the father of an illegitimate child. he was paid $40,000 for his story which again was never published. and those rumors just turned out to be completely untrue. the fact you have both of these things here. not just karen mcdougal but also the guy who was at the root of this story who was absolutely false. does that help trump?

>> i don't think it matters whether the stories are actually true or false. and i would stay away from not offend the defense just in case they are all false but that's not the issue. the issue is not to just a stormy daniels which is what the prosecution is alleging he did to help in the election, they are saying the defense is essentially saying he did this all the time, like other celebrities. it was not unlawful. it's in the course of doing business. how then do you also say it is solely to affect the election? it could be for his brand, to help avoid embarrassment and his personal life, it could be for many reasons. i think this could be challenging for prosecutors to prove it specifically with intent to assist him in the upcoming election. >> sandra: mar mark eiglarsh, thank you. >> john: plenty of opportunity to chat again in the future. any moment now former

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so the next time there's a power outage, your home powers up. power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today. >> sandra: fox news alert as we topped off a new hour here a live look at manhattan former president donald trump's criminal trial is suspected any moment now. we have david bh to continue as we wait to see whether he violated a gag order in this case. this is some of what we heard from the former president earlier today. >> they have taken my constitutional right away with the gag order is all it is. its election interference. this whole thing is election interference. so the polls have just come out and i just got another sample. we are leading everyg