he can ask for it. i do think that he has very good grounds here to say that this was an excessive award and also the conditions for appeal are beginning to shock the conscious, at least they should. so i think he can push further. he's unlikely to succeed with the court of appeals. >> martha: it's extraordinary. the largest single judgment against any individual i believe in american history in this decision here against the former president. it's a victimless crime as they have admitted in this court. they came up with an exorbitant judge in his opinion. thanks. >> he will get that appeal. that's the key. he has to come up with the money. >> martha: thanks, jonathan. that's "the story" for today. i'll see you on "the five" tonight.

>> neil: all right. that was six hours ago when hunter biden arrived in washington to talk to congressmen behind closed doors. we have no indication what they have discovered on hunter's dad. we have a pretty good idea what they're discovering on hunter biden himself. welcome. i'm neil cavuto. let's get to it. aishah hasnie. i guess you could call this the hearing that doesn't end. it's going on and on as we speak, right? >> hey, neil. it could be wrapping up in the next couple moments here. we were told that chairman comer is walking down now. so if he takes the podium here, i will hand it off to him so we can listen to those remarks. we haven't seen or heard from him since this all started. looks like he's walking over now. but we do know that hunter biden has been taking every question, answering in great detail and in

great length. not pleading the fifth, which has been surprising because of those two criminal cases. here's chairman comer. >> i'm just going to issue a brief statement. deposition is still john going. i have a bill on the house floor. i'm going to run across the street. republicans are still currently asking questions. but i think this was a great deposition for us. it proves several bits of our evidence that we've been conducting throughout this investigation. but there's some contradictory statements that i think need further review. so this impeachment inquiry will now go to the next phase, which will be a public hearing. that's something that everyone in the media has been asking a lot of questions about. something that i know that mr. biden and his attorney both demanded. just as i said when we said we would do the deposition first. we'll have a public hearing next. so i think that public hearing hopefully will clear up some discrepancies between the

statements made between the associates and what we heard today. all and all, i'm very optimistic, very excited about this deposition. and i look forward to releasing the transcripts as soon as both sides agree to that. hopefully that will be in the ftx two or three days. >> what was contradictory, sir? so neil, chairman comer says he will release the transcript of this deposition, which is what democrats have been calling for. they feel like this investigation is over. there's nothing to see here. they want those transcripts released as quickly as possible, which it sounds like we're going to see. they do not want to see a public hearing. they think this is over. you heard from chairman comer. sounds like there's going to be a public hearing. there was a stunning moment during this deposition. we heard from democrats. they said that at one point hunter biden brought up jared

curbmer, former president trump's son-in-law and suggested that lawmakers launch an investigation into him and his overseas business dealings. when fox questioned whether or not hunter biden was suggesting which investigations or what lawmakers should be looking into, we heard congressman goldman push bash. >> i don't know. he raised the question. he drew the distinction between what he had done in a business world with independent businessmen versus foreign governments, which he did not do any business with unlike jared kushner. >> okay. there was also of course this big question, neil, of what value or experience did hunter biden offer any of these boards, these foreign companies. i got to ask both democrats and republicans what did hunter say today. listen to this.

>> we've asked those questions. there's and ellucory very. there's a mirage to believe that he was engaged in international business. he said i'm a graduate of georgetown. he's been involved in lots of business. he was an expert on corporate governance. >> so it sounds like this might be over now. chairman comer of course just walked out. we haven't seen hunter biden leave yet. we're expecting him to walk through these doors. we're standing by now. neil? >> neil: just to put a fine sort of finish on this. comer is looking in to hunter biden's business dealings. this went on for the better part of six hours. a lot of stuff that they have on hunter and trying to connect a lot of that stuff to dad. i wasn't attending this behind closed doors meeting and neither

were you. your sources are far better. i'm wonder if there's stuff that they connected to dad. comer's remarks were brief, very short. if he found anything that was, he certainly would have leapt at the chance to say it. >> you would think that he would have led the entire commentary a few moments ago with what whatever he seems to have found. democrats have been coming out and sort of like on a media blitz talking to anyone and everyone that will speak to them. republicans have been very so i lint. almost angry with democrats for saying anything they're saying. chip roy said there's rules to this, a deposition. you shouldn't be coming out and talking. he's upset that jared kushner's name was brought up. democrats are talking to the media and telling them what's going on inside. again, this would be the make or break deposition for this case. if there is something that has come out of this, you would think we'd hear about it fairly

soon. >> neil: all right. aishah, thanks for that. andy mccarthy joins us now. katie cherkasky. andy, if i can begin with you on what revelations that we know of could have come from the six hours of testimony on the part of hunter biden. obviously the real pursuit here is his dad. or connect his dad to his son's business practices. do you think in anything you have heard that they have got that? that they have achieved that? >> yeah, i thought that hunter led with his chin at the beginning of the day when he did an opening statement that said the father was never involved. that he never involved his father with his business associates. they had numerous different instances in black and white statements showing that he precisely involved his father in his business dealings, most notorious through that whatsapp

message that was notorious with a chinese partner saying i'm sitting here with my dad and pressured him to close a deal. i have to say, neil, two things on the basis of the reporting we just heard. first, it makes perfect sense that the republicans wouldn't go public if they have gotten something explosive in the deposition if the deposition is still going on, which we understand that it is. because as an investigator, you wouldn't want to say something public and then hunter's lawyers find out about it and they try to repair it or fix it while the deposition is still going on. if he said something that is either incriminating or troubling, you want to lock him in and leave it in the transcript rather than brag about it while he can still fix it. secondly, with respect to dan goldman's comments, it's remarkable. hu

hunter's business partners including bank of china and the chinese bank. so to try to draw a distinction between his business partners and what he said with jared kushner's is remarkable. >> neil: in the case of jared kushner, a billion dollars from major arab nation. that's a separate issue. katie, your talk on where you think this goes? because they're not trying to sort of thread the needle. that is those defending hunter biden to say of course, you know, there's a connection with the name. we get that. there's nothing untoward or wrong with the father being mentioned or dipping in and even saying hello. that was something that the father said never happened in the first place. they have to sort of correct that. what do you make of that, that the appearance of impropriety doesn't equal impropriety, which

is what i think they're saying. >> this has always been a circumstantial case as far as tying joe biden to any of hunter's business dealings. there's strong circumstantial evidence that he was involved. i don't think that hunter has offered any sort of clear explanations for many of these very specific exchanges. the text messages that reference payments that are being sent, the presence of joe biden on all of these phone calls. so in terms of whether the republicans can close that loop and actually get to a place with even circumstantially they can show that there was direct involvement of joe biden and it was for an improper purpose, that's where you have to look at the inconsistencies that have come out, all of the testimony presented by business partners and meet that burden of proof. hunter is in a tough position. he's facing criminal cases that kind of overlap with the same subject matter. i wouldn't have anticipated that he will give smoking gun evidence or concessions.

certainly any statements that he gives are going to be analyzed in terms of those inconsistencies to see if that loop can be closed. >> neil: let's go to the latest decision on donald trump and he's legal battles. the court has decided against him and his judgment. he must post the full amount. the judge will temporarily allow donald trump and his sons to continue running the business as this appeals process plays out. so hearing that, andy, what do you think? >> well, i think the wild card in that, neil, is that the verdict in the civil -- the new york civil fraud case prescribes or prohibits donald trump and the trump organization from taking loans from banks that are either chartered by

new york or registered to do business in new york. you know this better than i do. that seems to be like every important financial institution in america. so it's good for trump that he will continue to have a little bit more leeway to do what he has to do to put these bonds together. i don't know how he will do it if he can't take loans. >> neil: or something that could collateralize the properties that he has here. he really can't do that. there's a number of properties that he's a direct investor or side investor that could easily get this money forward. but that money in getting it to them is paramount. the appeals process and maintaining a business interest and identity in new york, that can't just be shut down as he goes through it is the other part. how do you size it up? >> i wonder if he has an argument. his team has mentioned that they

will raise an eighth amendment argument that excessive fines shouldn't be imposed. he should proceed with that appeal without posting the full amount of this unprecedented damages that he's been adjudged against. i think he has to get creative. the first step is to ask the court if they would have some leeway with that. barring their allowance for that, he has to go through the standard process. >> neil: that meant that $100 million bond offering that he make -- by the way, these sizes have never been seen in any state that has this kind of thing on the books. new york is unique because this is -- even though it's been out there for decades, it's never been used. the $100 million thing is a bond offering that he couldn't make. it was a quarter of what he would have to put up if you follow the letter of this murky law. so that remains the case. put up the full amount. andy, your thoughts. >> i wouldn't go to sleep, neil,

on the fact that probably early next week judge kaplan in the federal trial, the second e jean carroll case is going to tell him he has to put up 90 million to appeal there. that has already come up this week. so, you know, this is just the beginning of these problems for the former president. >> you're talking about the e. jean carroll situation. that's 94 million there. this is 464 million. you're closing in hahn $570 million when all is said and done. thanks very much. we'll keep track of this. obviously a moving target. both of these legal cases and where they go. meantime, letting you know about mitch mcconnell. he's 82 years young. he says that's enough. i'm going to step down at least as republican leader of the senate. no one has served longer in that kind of capacity in november. he can still stay on and plans to stay on right through the end of 2026 when the present term

expires. we have more from chad pergram on the fallout from this. chad? >> neil, good afternoon. several factors at play here. age, time, health and its about the math. mcconnell just turned 82. he's the longest serving senate leader in history. mcconnell fell last year. he then froze up on several occasions and mcconnell lost his iron grip on senate republicans. >> believe me, i know the politics within my party at this particular moment in time. i have many faults. politics is not one of them. >> martha: gop florida senate eric scott ran against mccome for leader in late 2022. mcconnell failed to get a majority of gop members to support the international aid bill earlier this month. gop missouri senator josh hawley said mcconnell was the symbol of

everything that is wrong with washington. >> nobody has done more to open the geyser of corporate cash in american politicses that mitch mcconnell. i think there will be more than three that are interested. maybe more than three that are viable. i don't know. it's been a long time since we've had a leadership race like this. >> 3 senators are interested in succeeding mcconnell. gop whip john thune, former women john cornyn and john barrasso of wyoming. the gop won't pick a predecessor until november. >> he's gave us the confidence to sit down and decide what our mission needs to be. what are our goals. we need a more strategic approach to doing that. he's given us that time to have that discussion and then hopefully find a leader that will fully embrace that mission. >> there was tension between mcconnell and conservatives for

years. former president trump wanted mcconnell out. it was thought that mr. trump could try to engineer his ouster if he wins in november. neil? >> neil: thank you for that, chad, on capitol hill. we'll give you the latest and whether the former president has said anything about this. the former president plans to go to the border tomorrow. the present president plans to go to the border tomorrow. they're not there at the same time and the same place. it's note worthy. jacqui heinrich has more. >> we're waiting for the results of the president's physical that happened today. it won't include a cognitive test. on the border, travel tomorrow. he will not be seeing an area, a sector that has been very busy. the white house says that doesn't matter. he's going to rail against republicans for killing the bipartisan border deal that

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>> neil: the president of the united states and the former

president of the united states are headed to the border, different parts. jacqui heinrich on this historic timing. jacqui? >> pretty historic, neil. he's only been to the border one other time since taking office and the other historic event today -- i shouldn't say historic but more like doesn't happen often. he does his physical. we're waiting on the memo from the white house of the health read-out from the president. we know it won't include a cognitive test. the president says that his doctors and neurologist doesn't think he needs one. in the words of karine jean-pierre, he passes a cognitive test every day. they said they had no problem railing against his age and the hur report on the classified documents. opted not to include one citing,

of course, the doctor's decision and now folks have to take his word for it. the president joked around and what happened in his physical this morning. listen to this. >> [question inaudible] >> so the president said the doctors think he looks too young. after that remark, he commented on the upcoming retirement of minority leader mitch mcconnell, who cited his own age, 82 as part of hits decision to step down. the quote he said, i turned 82 last week and the end of my contributions are closer than i'd prefer. the white house declined to opine on what that means for the president who is just eight months younger than mcconnell. tomorrow, biden will continue travelling, continue his work as president. they say he is going to the

border not for anything other than an opportunity, really, to slam republicans on their failure to pass a bipartisan bill that failed in the senate that would have addressed many of these border issues. take a listen to what they said. >> the president is not going to see the parts of the border where it's actually really bad. >> i think you're missing the point. the point is the president actually did the work to get a bipartisan bill done. it was rejected because of what they were told by the last president. by donald trump to kill it. they literally, jacqui, put politician ahead of the american people. that's what they did. >> the part of the border he's going to averaged 17 crossings a day. it ranked 29th among the busiest sectors. more than 450 in the month of february the busiest sector that he's not going to had about 14,000. the white house says that, you know, the president is the one that has done the work.

they're taking this opportunity to try to push the blame from their own administration for things like undoing trump era policies or not choosing to re-enact them with executive orders that he could be making over to republicans and say that they could take action on the border but they refuse to. they're really soaking up this moment politically to try to shift gears, shift the blame away from their own administration to the opposing party as immigration has become the top voter concern over all other issues that voters are facing, neil. >> neil: all right. thank you very much, jacqui heinrich at the white house. georgia republican governor brian kemp is welcoming the president's renewed interest of the border, but demanding answers from him concern ago georgia university student that was killed by an illegal immigrant. brian kemp will join us shortly. joe lieberman, the former connecticut senator,

presidential candidate and the the no labels founding chairman. good seeing you, joe. immigration has obviously hit front and center, even a majority of democrats now see it as a compelling issue and a problematic one for the president. is he too little too late responding here? >> thanks, neil. good to be back with you. so of course, let me say, it really is interesting that immigration and border security are the number 1 or second issue of concern to america's voters right now inflation and the economy. the reason i say that, more people are affected by inflation than by border security. border security has come to represent something larger for the american people. that is the breakdown of the ability of our government to

maintain a basic operation such as our borders. keeping people out, keeping the rule of law up. so not surprising that both president biden and former president trump are going to the border tomorrow. it's not too late for president biden. but really he's got to act decisively. the fact is that he sent out signals from the beginning of his administration that were read carefully by people that wanted to come to america illegally and they flowed in. the flow has been just outrageous. i've always been for immigration, it strengthens our country, but you have to have rule. the rules are being ignored or gamed now. if the bill doesn't pass, which i hope it will in the house, the president has to take executive action to clamp down on illegal

immigration at our borders. >> neil: but he's not doing so. he might take a couple of quick efforts, executive orders to undue the executive orders that he administered on his first full day in office. it will have to go a long way to address what is happening. since then, this georgia university students killed by an alleged illegal. the fact of the matter is, he didn't address it when talking about crime in the country today. any of these issues that have involved those illegally hear, he doesn't address at all. it says if he has a tin ear or the staff around him chooses deliberately to have a tin ear. >> yeah, absolutely. president biden right now is on defensive on the big question of border security and immigration. i think if he doesn't act decisively to put himself on the side of enforcing the rules at

the border, then it's going to really make it difficult for him to get re-elected. it's that important for that wide swath of america's voters. >> neil: do you think this issue now, especially in light -- sometimes it takes a tragedy like the killing of this university of georgia student -- to crystallize it and say we could have stopped this. this guy had been picked up a number of times. we could have stopped it, sent him back to venezuela. we didn't do that. for a lot of americans looking at this and this girl who had a wonderful life ahead of her, she's gone. her parents, her friends are devastated that is a seminole moment, i would think. >> it is a seminole moment. makes it all very personal. we can say, i believe the truth, most of the immigrants are

coming in illegally because they want a better life for themselves and their families. but that is not good enough. if you have somebody that came in illegally like this guy in georgia and there were opportunities for the police and immigration authorities to grab him, but they didn't and he ended up killing this innocently beautiful woman, that make it all very important and really cries out for the most urgent, tough policies at the border and in chasing down illegal immigrants once they're found in this country. i think the american people are fed up with the status quo on this. as i say, it's more than just the border. it's about the collapse of law in our society and about the incompetence, the loss of trust in our government to do the most

basic things that we expect government to do. this really is a symbol of all of that. the murder in georgia is the most heart breaking evidence of it. it's a seminole moment. if president biden doesn't react to it aggressively, i say again, i think it alone will make it impossible for him to get re-elected. >> neil: all right, senator. we'll see what happens. a lot to cover there. i appreciate you taking the time. we're monitoring these developments. this 22-year-old, laken hope riley was found on the university of georgia campus. she was not a student there. i misspoke. bottom line, she's dead and her family is wondering what we're going to do to avoid this in the future. we're on top of that and on top of a town wondering the same thing after this. jorge has always put the ones he loves first. but when it comes to caring for his teeth

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hoped but if they happen at all. that is not a consensus building, but it's a worrisome one building. we'll keep track of that. most of the key players including ones that got us to near records last week like what was doing on with nvidia and earlier this week. a little give back today. not much of one. the georgia republican governor, brian kemp, very kind enough to join us. he wants to find out more act laken riley's murder and how it could happen and with someone who had already been fingered by border officials. hunter biden and his lawyer are

there. they might talk to reporters. let's listen. >> it seems to me that the republican members wanted to spend more time talking about my client's addiction than they could ask any questions that had anything to do with what their call their impeachment effort. as i said before, there's no evidence because there's no evidence and today only confirmed that. thank you. >> neil: there's no evidence. that's again the view of hunter biden's lawyer. there's nothing there. certainly nothing that incriminates him. certainly his father with whom he had business conversations. the eye of the beholder whether that represents a crime. if the goal in the six-plus hours of depositions was to get us closer to a convincing case as hunter biden and the prosecutors and the top republicans and democrats on

that completety leave, the fact of the matter is we had any little indications that gloves were laid on him that could be by design. nobody is going to give something away as he would have time to change or alter. too early to tell. back to brian kemp on this whole hunter biden issue. what do you think of the whole case? this is something that -- critics say republicans have been trying to build up, but their key witness might not be reliable. might be a liar. for some, looks like it's falling apart. do you see it that way? >> yeah, be hard for me to say, neil. we've had a lot of really horrible things that we've been dealing with here in the state of georgia. we lost two state patrolmen in the line of duty. obviously our three military heros that we lost in the drone attacks over in jordan and

obviously this terrible incident with laken. so i hadn't been indulged to be in the weeds too much on the hunter biden situation. >> neil: i can well understand, sir. let me ask you a little bit about something that you do care a great deal about. the death of this 22-year-old girl at the hands of an illegal immigrant allegedly. if he was the one behind it, there were plenty of opportunities for border officials to arrest him and send him back to venezuela. they never did so. a lot of cracks in the system. he was able to buck the system and allegedly pull this off. what do you think of how this is handled? >> well, i mean, that's what so frustrating about this whole thing. when you think about when and where it started in 2022, this guy came across the border. you know, for over two years now, myself and republican

governors saying we have illegal immigration, we have bad people coming in our country, people on the terror watch list coming in our country, people bringing fentanyl, people bringing human trafficking in to our country. it needed to stop, this is long before anybody started saying don't make this political or whatever. it's just a no-brainer to secure our southern border. we've seen governor abbott do things that work. we've seen the previous administration and the white house do things that works. this president in his, you know, border czar have literally just ignored this. so that is the first problem, allow these people coming across a porous southern border. then you have this situation where this person is arrested in new york, released and arrested again in georgia and released and nobody is checking him. you have someone that is illegal that is breaking our laws.

they should have been deported. now we have unfortunately in a horrific crime a dead 22-year-old. >> neil: do you think this bipartisan border deal that just didn't work out, republicans blame democrats, democrats blame republicans, be that as it may, governor, could it have stopped something like this? doesn't look like it could have. what do you think? >> well, neil, to me, the buck stops with the white house and with president biden. i said this at the world economic forum over a year ago. last year's world economic forum. i told senator manchin, cinema and coons. they said they're working on a border deal. i said that's great. washington d.c. has been doing that for 20 years now. while you're doing that, secure

the border. we have suggested ideas. we have said we'll work with this president and any future president to secure our borders. there's things that joe biden can do right now, things he could have done when the vice president said the border was secure, the how many land security secretary said the border was secure. his press secretary said the border was secure. over a year ago, over two years ago, there's things that they could have done. they have ignored this problem. the american people see through that. it's not just republicans that are upset about this. i mean, look at what former senator lieberman said. the guy was a big-time democrat at one time, turned independent. he knows this is a problem in our country. middle america knows that as well and they want -- we should demand action. we have to keep the pressure up on the president. i hope when he goes to the border tomorrow, he will talk to somebody that will tell him what is really happening and has been

happening down there. >> neil: do you get a sense when the president had an opportunity, governor, to talk about crime, that was an unscheduled event, he made a big point of saying the progress we made on crime, but he did not mention the laken riley tragic death. he didn't mention any cases that have come up in your state or anything having to do with anyone illegally here. >> yeah, i read stories today about other instances where you had people here illegally that had committed murders and violent crimes in places like louisiana, maryland, colorado. we know obviously what happened in georgia. we know the amount of fentanyl that is in our country. we know the amount of people that we're losing our children to one dose of fentanyl coming across the southern border. we know the cartel is being

emboldened by this and enriched as well. to not link the crime that we have in our country with what is happening with the southern porous border that we have is just insane to me. i guess he just simply does not get it. >> neil: while i have you, governor, the fani willis trial and her relationship with another prosecutor, how long that was known and whether these entire case against donald trump at least in georgia should be dismissed or start over or she should be dismissed. your a former lieutenant governor. dismissed a lot of these accusations against fani willis as a side show. do you? >> well, i think it's more like a soap opera than a side show to me. i have to be careful, neil, about what i'm saying. i was subpoenaed by the special grand jury that she did. i said a long time ago that this was political, and it's gotten

more political now and i think she's understanding now the politics on the other side of this because of quite honestly what appears to be her own actions. i think we need to let the judge work through this. i think judge mcafee will work through it in a fair and good way and we'll see what he says and then we can take it from there. >> neil: all right. not a side show to you. it's -- i think his view was, governor, i understand how carefully you have to be in answering this, that, you know, whatever you make of her relationship, shouldn't get to the bottom of what donald trump tried to do to influence the final vote in your statement. >> i would just say this, neil. when your a prosecutor and you're picking high profile cases regardless if it's this one or any others, there's going to be a lot of people watching. when you don't have your is dotted and ts crossed and things

like this happen. people are going to take advantage of that. she made this political and now the other side is making it political. it's up to judge mcafee to be the referee. it's going to be interested to see what he does. >> neil: very interesting. thanks, governor, with all of this breaking news. i appreciate it, sir. >> thanks, neil. >> neil: all right. meantime, want to take you back to washington, the hunter biden long back and forth, six hours plus talking to republicans behind closed doors. that is over. what we learned from that too soon to tell. aishah hasnie has the very latest. aishah? >> hi, neil. good afternoon. big headline today is that this is all headed for a public hearing now on capitol hill. that is what chairman james comer of the oversight committee vowed moments ago here on your show. he said this was now going to be going to the hill for a big hearing. he's going to bring hunter biden

in to testify in front of democrats and republicans. hunter biden, as you just said, as well on your show, just walked out of here. he had his attorney make a few comments saying this thing is totally over. there's nothing to see here. the investigation is done. as he was walking out, i asked him if he's ready to testify publicly on capitol hill. he just smiled at me and he kept on walking and got into his car and drove away. this is now where republicans are taking this investigation. chairman comer said this is the eventual next step. he wanted to dothe deposition first. the public hearing next. democrats you'll remember not long ago wanted a public hearing. they didn't want the deposition. they wanted to go to this public event. republicans pushed back on that. now democrats say they don't want to see a public hearing. so we'll wait and see when they schedule that. first we'll get the transcript of what happened today.

the deposition. chairman comer says he's going to released the transcript in the next few days when he gets everything worked out with democrat ranking member, jamie raskin. we'll see how hunter biden answered all of these questions. i heard earlier that republicans came in with about 800 questions today. we'll see exactly how he answered those questions. we were told he was not pleading the fifth at all today. he was answering these questions in great detail and in great length. so we'll see what they learned from that. chairman comer also said that he was -- he felt that hunter biden was contradicting himself several times. marjorie taylor greene as well saying that. we'll see what exactly he was contradicting in terms of previous statements that he's made to this community. as of now, the headline is we don't know exactly what they learned from this deposition today. we don't know if they got a bomb shell moment out of this, a

smoking gun. we know that the next step now is a public hearing. you know how those go. we watch them all the time. gets very heated. democrats and republicans expecting to make a big show of this. more to come as soon as that is scheduled, neil. >> neil: yeah, you have to have something to show. that's what we're waiting to find out. aishah, thanks very much for that. abbe lowell said republicans had no evidence that involved hunter and his father and no evidence because there is no evidence. further we're learning from jake gibson that as they were walking out, he asked hunter twice how did it go. he replied "great." i want to do back to andy mccarthy, katie cherkasky. it comes down to having something there. you have to have something that sticks. not what appears to be an unreliable witness or one that is accused of lying but

something that has the goods. is it fair to say at this juncture and as you pointed out earlier, so much we don't know because there's so much not being shared right now that maybe that did come up. to hear both sides sort of stake out their political ground on this, democrats said nothing was revealed, republicans said lots of things were revealed. i noticed from the republicans, no specifics on when they might be. what do you think? >> well, neil, i think it's important to define what the goods are because let's remember, this is not a criminal investigation. it's under the auspices of impeachment inquiry, which i have taken with a grain of salt. we all know that there's no chance that the senate would ever remove president biden, convict him in an impeachment hearing. they had so much trouble in the house getting the inquiry approved the thought that they would file articles of impeachment and vote them is highly unlikely.

what this has always been about to my mind is political accountability for millions of dollars in foreign funds that can't be explained that come from anti-american and corrupt regimes or at least the agents of them, how that ends up in the biden family coffers. when democrats say that there's nothing here, i think what they mean by that is that the republicans haven't proved a prosecutable felony crime. when the republicans say we have a ton of stuff here, what they're saying is not everything that is corrupt is necessarily illegal. what the framers were worried about, when for example they put in inpeachment in the constitution, the awesome powers of the presidency would be purchased by foreign powers. that's a big political problem, whether or not it's a legal one. >> neil: you know, katie, on the political part that doesn't look

good. when the son of the president of the united states and for a while the vice president of the united states has these business dealings abroad, whether it's father knew of them or not, obviously a lot of contacts would have been established had his last name was not biden. that doesn't make things criminal or even more serious for the president and remains to be seen how much of this is tied to joe biden, if any. but how important is that just the appearance of impropriety and then some? >> for political purposes, it's hugely important. the american people know there's so many unexplained facts that hunter biden has not offered as far as we have seen so far any explanation for. we know joe biden was on the phone. there's the messages that were send. there's no credible explanations offered from the bidens up to this point. that is huge politically. on the criminal side, hunter biden does have his own criminal

problems. obviously the point of this is to protect his father at all costs. that could cost him in his criminal cases in other ways. especially if there's any inconsistencies there. for political purposes, the american people do want to know just practically speaking how did they get all of this money, what was going on here and why was hunter biden so involved with these companies without any credible experience that we're aware of. >> neil: what stands out, andy, just as the business nerd here, so many involving china. of course we now know and of course china has gained greater importance in threat since this and even at the time, during this. so that raises eyebrows. whether the father is directly involved or aware or not. but the father is aware that his son was using that name to garner these relationships. now, i don't know the laws on the books about conflicts of interest on this and whether

there were impeachable offenses here. that involved the father that the son is doing this. but you have to have a direct link to dad, don't you? whatever you think of this. that has not been proven yet to my knowledge. does that mean that at this point there's no there there? at least for republicans. >> yeah, let me try to separate out two things. one is i respectively disagree there's not a link to dad. what i can make of the evidence, the business is joe biden. he's got plenty of personal participation in it. he's the only person in this equation that could have shut this down in enough seconds if he chose to. he let them go on for years and years cashing in on his political influence. so i think he is i meshed in this. doesn't mean its criminal. the first link you described, what did these corrupt and anti-american administrations

get out of this. i'm glad you mentioned china. for example, hunter is involved in this trust, this investment fund with china where his partners included the bank of china. thanks to that, they got duel use technology that has military uses and also able to get a coveted cobalt mine in africa that gives china a real resource in terms of those cobalt, i believe a component in car batteries. so these electric cars that president biden wants to pus us in, hunter's partnership helped the chinese get an inside track on that stuff. that's the kind of thing that you want to be in a deposition like this tracing down. what did they get out of this?

>> neil: yeah and how much. normally we talk about something like that in the donald trump administration, you know, getting huge funds from a middle eastern nation. you raise eyebrows. you start saying, all right, how does that happen? it's a different case here. i grant you. the whole appearance of just working off and profiting off of business or political relationships for substantial money, we have seen it so many times, katie. it keeps playing out the same old way. how much of that is impeachable. you guys are the experts. i'm not. at the very least, it makes you feel a little ill. >> oh, absolutely. under the u.s. code in terms of bribery, there doesn't have to by any evidence that joe biden personally received anything of value. could be for someone else's benefit like his children. just has to be like andy was

saying, there's some official act that was performed to benefit those people. that's the missing link there. the money going directly to joe biden is really irrelevant. we know money was going to his family members. the question is, what was joe biden doing in exchange for that. so really i think the circumstantial case is growing. it has bank strong. you don't need smoking gun evidence but you do have to build that case to some level depending what you're trying to go for, impeachment or otherwise. it's strong evidence, joe biden's involvement. they have to close that loop and whether this testimony did it or not, we'll see shortly. >> i'm wondering, maybe you can concerned of help me with this, andy. where this legally goes. in the case of hunter biden, they're doing to try to tie his business dealings for dad and turning his you away while

building those relationships. it was involved in long enough and you raised something interesting for the dad to have said, stop. cease and desist. this is ridiculous. that apparently never happened. >> no. any up with who has worked >> anyone who was working the government knows you have this conflict of interest regulation that's precisely aimed at keeping people who have an interest in a transaction out of it. he should have stopped this. he never did. to katie's point, i'm glad she made the point out that bribery. the internal revenue service, if you want to pay me, neil, please excellent appearances i do anyone to raise my compensation here, i say to you you know, neil. don't pay me. i don't need it. give it to my son. as far as the irs is concerned, that his income to me.

this idea that just because the family members got paid and the president is in the clear, that's not how it works with a normal suspect an investigation that involves a lot of movement of money. >> legally we have so many issues here but i'd be remiss if i didn't follow up on something we mentioned at the beginning that donald trump still has to come up separately with this 450, $460 million. to continue his appeal. but he does not have all of a sudden leave his business or surrender his empire while all of this is going on. many have read into that that by forcing him to raise this money quickly but not necessarily sell or detach himself from his business as quickly, it's kind of a split win for him. do you see it that way?

>> i think it's a practical solution in an unprecedented circumstance. the appellate courts have very strict rules in terms of how things can proceed so in terms of allowing him to practically be able to do this, i think that that was the right sort of solution. i don't think you can read into that as telegraphing some sort of ultimate win in the case upon the appellate review but i think there has to be some sort of practical way for this to move forward and be reviewed and as i mentioned earlier i think the idea that this is an excessive find which is that constitutional argument is something the trump team should raise even at the intermediate appellate level before goes to the supreme court which it may or may not ultimately get there because that's a very scenic and an interesting issue that maybe will allow this to be reviewed without all that being put up. this has never before been seen. if the courts have to make some allowances there. >> neil: could i ask you something on that very same issue.

it concerns how these cancel out in the eyes of the public. your great lawyers. to a lot of folks at home, there's a hunter biden issue of the relationship with dad and whether that was stinky and there's donald trump and his businesses and whether he went too far. the prosecution seems to have gone a little too far in doing something where no harm was incurred by anyone. but i'm wondering whether they begin to cancel each other out. the american people become either so jaded by this that no matter what legal cases are brought forward, they don't resonate. much as all the cases that have been brought against donald trump have not dinged his popularity. far from it. the more cases brought against him have helped his popularity. what do you think? >> i think that part of the reason the republicans so much wanted to have this impeachment inquiry under the auspices of public corruption is so they could have a parallel process going involving biden while

trump had to run through this gauntlet of civil lawsuits and criminal prosecutions and i do think it's been somewhat successful for them in the sense of fame have shown an awful lot of money going into biden and on the other hand, i think the democrats and these prosecutors for the most part are elected progressive democrats, they really overplayed their hand. i think in particular in new york. most people who look, i believe, most people who look at the civil fraud case and see a gargantuan $454 million judgment under circumstances where they had an 11 week trial and the attorney general couldn't prove a single victim and didn't even have to show criminal intent in order to get what she got and then you factor in that the prosecutors looked at this and decided not to bring a criminal case. ♪ ♪

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