♪ limu emu & doug ♪ ( bell ringing) customize and save with libberty bibberty. liberty bushumal. libtreally blubatoo. mark that one. that was nice! i think you're supposed to stand over there. oh am i? thank you. so, a couple more? we'll just...we'll rip. we'll go quick. libu smeebo. libu bribu. limu bibu...and me. doug: he's an emu! only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ >> martha: good afternoon. i'm martha maccallum.

this is "the story" right now. my exclusive one-on-one with independent presidential candidate, r.f.k. jr. we sat down yesterday in east palestine, ohio. very interesting conversation with people from that town and with him as well. we'll have our wide-ranging sit-down one day after democrats in michigan warned president biden that they are open to other options come november. >> i think he needs to show americans that, that he -- a lot of these decisions are the product of complex and nuance thought. i do not think that that is happening now. >> martha: talking about the president's ability to lead and do the job for another four years. but first, hunter biden defiant, but answering questions on the hill right now as we speak. house republicans continue their impeachment inquiry in to the president. hunting telling republicans i did not involve my father in the business. you do not have evidence to

support the maga conspiracies about my father because there isn't any, says hunter biden. earlier this month, his former business partner told congress that joe biden was "the brand being sold" by the biden family. in all of these international venues. democrats calling the ongoing deposition a feckless price. watch. >> what we saw is a rather embarrassing spectacle where the republicans continued to belabor completely trivial points. >> what we just witnessed over the last hour was i think a deep sea fishing expedition. the republican case has fallen apart. >> one of their witnesses has been indicted for working with russian tell. another witness has been indicted for working with chinese intelligence. another witness is serving a 14-year felony sentence. this is fourth and 20 on their own ten. they don't have patrick mahomes.

>> martha: chip roy is participating in hunter's deposition today. he's asked questions as a member of the house judiciary committee. thanks for joining us today. >> great to be on, martha. >> martha: what is your response to your democratic colleagues that just say this whole thing has completely fallen apart, it's an embarrassment for republicans that are pressing this investigation. they won't find anything. >> well, this is more of the same from my democratic colleagues. they're all trying to hide their radical agenda and trying to dismiss what we're seeing in front of us. there's something in the law as you know, the thing speaks for itself. they want to dismiss all of these things by talking about the witnesses and how they want to disparage them. they don't want to talk about the facts. that nothing we learned today changed questions about the exact dollar amount of an expensive sports car going in to hunter biden's account. the reality that when it says the big guy, who are they

talking about. there's no good answers to questions like who is the big guy. there's no good answers to why joe biden was president when he was having these business dealings with folks. there's no response when he was pressed on what in the world was he actually delivering and making all of this money in the tune of millions of dollars going to the biden family from overseas interests, foreign adversaries. my colleagues are breaking house rules. not just rules that we set up for this deposition. united states house of representatives rules by getting in to the specifics and talking about questions during the deposition. i'm going to try to adhere to the house rules and not get in specific but i'll speak in broad terms. we didn't learn anything today that does not underscore the serious concerns that we can all see at the evidence sitting in front of us. you can try to dismiss a witness but you can't dismiss when you have text talking about 10% for the big guy, talking about the real concerns that we see in the

form of where those dollars are flowing. >> can you answer -- given what you just said, maybe not, but did he say who the big guy is? >> what is interesting -- i'm trying to be careful. while my colleagues violate the rules, i'm trying to adhere to them. in broad terps, there's actual text there that says 10% to the big guy. well, i don't know, that could be somebody in the zip code of speculation. something wanted it 10%. the next defense was, wait a minute. he's no longer a public servant at 48 years. he's private sector joe biden. which is it? without getting into the details, which is it? you know who it is or you don't? we know who it is. everybody know whose it was. everybody gets that of course he was selling the brand. you can't hide behind the fact that you had addictions, which god bless him, we hope he's clean and sober but you can't

hide behind that and obfuscate what you were doing under the infl influence. >> martha: i don't think anybody begrudges his personal situation or his addiction. the relevancy is doing these deals with china and ukraine while you're under that situation personally and how they might use that against you. obviously you'd have to dig and come up with the goods on whether or not there was any quid pro quo or they held anything over his head because of that situation. we don't know whether any of that will come out. at one point apparently, he suggested that jared kushner should be investigated because of the deal that he did with the saudis. what did you think about that? >> well, he certainly is well-within his rights to raise whatever he wants to raise. that may have come up. again, i'm trying to be careful here. the reality is, what you heard in response from my republican colleagues in broad terms, follow the truth wherever it may

lead. we're concerned about any business dealings that might raise questions of foreign adversaries having some influence that is improper. the fact is, that's an irrelevant fact. you can't say hey, i didn't know i might be sending something about a text saying my father is next to me. i'm not sure about that. i'm under the influence. he tried to say, you can't say that in the one hand and then not say, well, how did you know he wasn't sitting next to you? if you can't remember sending the text and then you said he wasn't sitting next how, how do you know? this is what you see. >> martha: on the one hand, a super astute business man that had lots of knowledge that he could sell overseas or in such a fog that he can't remember whether or not his father was next to him. so i don't know if both of those things can be true.

chip roy, congressman, thanks very much for you insight in to what is going on in there. good to see you as always. >> thank you. >> martha: coming up, a story exclusive with independent presidential candidate rfk jr. and voters in east palestine, ohio. nearby battleground pennsylvania, which is just a couple miles away from this horrific scene. it's easy to forget these stories, but it's not so easy for the people that lived it, that say that they've had zero federal help in this situation. they feel completely abandoned despite the president's visit there just a couple weeks ago. that's why rfk jr. was there speaking with them about this. we joined him to find out what's going on there as well as they deal with the toxic fall-out that is continuing, they say, to make them and their loved ones sick. >> while they're fighting up there on the hill, they're playing politics with any 4-year-old daughter's life.

that is not okay. >> martha: tempers flare. also over immigration in athens, georgia. quite a scene this morning when the mayor came to the podium to try to talk to the people of the town after the murder of 22-year-old nursing student, laken riley next. >> i understand in the wake of a great tragedy like this, we're all deeply hurt. everybody expresses their hurt differently. >> who voted to make athens-clark county a sanctuary city, sir? who? what is their name? for veteran homeowners, it's easy as 1-2-3. one: call newday and apply. two: take out an average of $70,000. three: pay off your credit cards

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we got him under a new plan. but then they unexpectedly unraveled their "price lock" guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the "un-carrier". you sing about "price lock" on those commercials. "the price lock, the price lock..." so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. >> martha: what an intense scene this morning. i don't know if you saw this live. it was quite something. protesters shouted down the mayor of athens, georgia after the brutal murder of 22-year-old

laken riley who went out for a run and never came back to her home. they held signs saying stop lying, blood on your hands. you can see the rest of these. the 22-year-old nursing student was killed when she went out for a jog last week around an area that college kids go to run all the time. so the feds say the suspect on the right-hand side of your screen came here illegally from venezuela. he was arrested in new york city six months ago, which is the point where he should have been deported for breaking the laws of this country, but as we hear too often, that didn't happen. so that has prompted a lot of questions about how our cities are being run, why they are still calling themselves sanctuary cities and the mayor of athens got huge blow-back today. watch. >> no policies have been

adopted -- >> please stop lying. you need to resign. >> one protocol -- >> resign! >> resign now! >> go away, resign. >> you allowed this to happen, sir. >> martha: okay. with that, we bring in chad wolf. good to have you here, chad. just an interesting microcosm in one city in america. you hear how very upset at least some of the people were in that room today, chad. what did you make of that? >> i think they're right. they're right to be upset. look, most americans are starting to catch on that sanctuary cities don't provide sanctuary and make their communities safer. they make them more dangerous at the end of the day. whether you see that in new york city, philadelphia, chicago, elsewhere, citizens and americans are starting to wake up to this notion. it takes a terrible tragedy like we see here in @thens to bring this to the forefront. as acting secretary, during the

trump administration, i went to numerous sanctuary city jurisdictions and trying to talk to the people about how it doesn't protect their communities and talking to law enforcement. so this unfortunately is not a new issue. this is something that we've been trying to educate people on, that sanctuary city policies do not protect the residents of those communities. i think people in athens, georgia, are unfortunately feeling that personally right now. >> martha: the attorney general of georgia was on "fox and friends" this morning, chris carr. he sort of i think got everyone prepared for what we would later hear when the mayor of athens started to speak. here's what he said. >> this is the perfect tragic storm of a failed immigration system, dangerous sanctuary cities policies and an environment where d.a.'s won't enforce the law such that law enforcement feels like they can do its job. i heard about the press conference that the mayor will engage in. he's part of the team that create the sanctuary cities that

they said they knew better than federal law or state law. >> martha: chad, we also on top of that just heard from president biden. he was speaking at the white house about crime and safety in america. he sounded a little bit like what i heard from the mayor in athens this morning who at one point in his statement started to talk about how much safer athens is than other cities and how people should feel like that they're sort of out of step if they don't have the right numbers and they don't understand that things are better. people don't. what did you think about what president biden said moments ago? >> well, no, americans don't feel that way. you just have to look what's going on on the border, that created a crisis and allowed individuals like the suspect to come in on parole program that should have never been in place. then you have sanctuary cities that allow these individuals to be released and don't coordinate with ice to remove these individuals so the american

people i think have seen enough and have heard enough and not re-assured at this point. they want to see the policies change. >> martha: you have a majority of americans that want a border wall. 53% now want a border wall that keeps us safe. chad, thank you very much. good to have you here. i should mention in my -- i brought up these issues about whether or not we should have a secure wall at the southern border and what should happen to people that come here illegally and break our laws. i got some very interesting answers from r.f.k. jr. on this. you'll hear our conversation coming up next. and the message today from president biden, which i just touched on, about crime. his former communications director admits no matter what you say or what you see in the numbers, many americans feel unsafe. >> i don't subscribe to the trump vision of america as a

decaying wasteland where packs of people are running wild committing crime. but it is true that people across the country, particularly in cities, are concerned about crime.

and so look, the president will -- he said, we actually said that once that bill was killed by republicans that american people will hear directly from the president. >> the reason i ask, brownsville is one of the slower sectors. in the month of february, they averaged 17 illegal crossings a day for a little more than 450 in the month. the number 1 sector had more than 14,000 in the same time period. this administration has often criticized republicans when they go to the border and hold similar press conferences saying they're doing publicity stunts and photo ops.

how is this different? >> it's very different. what house republicans have done is nothing. absolutely nothing. if anything, they consistently get in the way. they consistently get in the way of what the president is trying to do to get more resources. they're turning this in to a political stunt by listening to donald trump and saying that they need to kill it. making it political. the president got his team, directed his team to work with senators, both republicans and democrats, to get a bill done. >> the president is not going to see the parts of the border where it's actually really bad. >> i think you're missing the point. the point is the president did the work to get a bipartisan bill done. that deals with an issue that the majority of americans care about. he did. it dealt with border security challenges, dealt with immigration policy. he actually did that. republicans got in the way.

they rejected it. what republicans in the house got in the way and rejected because of what they were told by the last president, by donald trump, to kill it. they literally, literally, jacqui, put politics ahead of the american people. that's what they did. >> what do you say to people that think this is an election year stunt? finally caring about the border after it's been a problem for three years. >> here's what i'd say. on the first day of his administration, he put out a comprehensive immigration policy to deal with this issue. he did that the first day. his first piece of legislation. i would hope the american people would see he serious he is about fixing this issue. not only that, spent four months, four months having a bipartisan conversation doing negotiations to come up with a bill, with a proposal that was, again, approved by the border patrol union, right? that supported by the u.s.

chamber of commerce. we don't see that. that is because of the president's direction of what he was able to do because he got involved and worked with republicans and democrats in the senate. and when we got this bill done, by the way that included a lot of things that house republicans wanted, when we got that done, it was rejected because of politics. i mean, that's where we are. that's where we are. the president will make that very clear and take it to the american people. >> has the president spoken to the young georgia student that was murdered at the hands of an undocumented immigrant? >> first of all, i do want the expend our deepest condolences to the family of laken riley. i'm going to be careful about speaking to that case. i'd have to refer anything specific to that case to law enforcement and obviously ice. the president, i don't have anything regarding to the president's speaking to the family. >> martha: all right. coming off of that discussion, i

just wanted to hang there for a minute and see if president biden has spoken to laken riley's family. sounds like that has not happened yesterday. we also heard from the president earlier on crime in america. he basically said that things are really going so much better than they have in the past. here's a little piece of that. watch. >> last year, the united states had one of the lowest rates of all violent crimes in more than 50 years. murder, rape, aggravated assault, robbery dropped sharply along with burglary, crime and theft. >> martha: let's bring in paul mauro, retired nypd inspector and gerry baker, host of wall street at large on fox business. both are fox news contributors. great to have you with us today. gerry, your reaction to the president. he came out with a lot of please chiefs. addressed the nation on the

issue of crime. what did you make of it? >> yeah, look, they're trying to tell people what they see in their homes and streets and cities every day is not really happening. there's a lot of crime here. the numbers -- some types of time have declined. we had big spike in 2020. some categories have declined. overall, serious crime in many major cities like places here in new york, philadelphia, chicago, baltimore, other cities, have seen a serious spike. people are aware of this. you can't tell people what is happening is actually not happening. what they can see happening before their eyes. it's the same -- these political stunts, i mean, i applaud karine jean-pierre there for doing an impersonation of someone trying to sell someone a dead horse. everybody knows there's an immigration crisis. everybody knows there's a serious problem with crime in this country. telling people that it doesn't exist, telling people that -- blaming the republicans for the immigration crisis or saying

crime is fine, declining and the country is fine and we don't have a crime problem is a denial of reality. people don't buy it. >> martha: let's take a look, paul, at a couple videos. we grabbed a couple. i could take up most of the shw showing these videos of smash and grabs. a venezuelan migrant grabbing this woman's purse. >> we have a nexus here in the criminal justice world that the administration doesn't want to confront. president biden came out today, gave this long speech regarding crime and how much safer we're all supposed to feel without once addressing not only laken riley but obviously immigration and the fact that we have organized venezuelan gangs here that go back to the old country. the nypd made a big arrest. but who is absent?

doj. these are international level organized crimes groups. they're mia because it doesn't work politically because it goes down to the migration issue. expect more willful blindness. this is a problem for us. >> martha: that's one thing i don't care about. why do we care? that's their problem. why do we put up these countries saying we're not going to take them back? >> not only that, we pay for them to come here. according to the center of immigration studies. the ngos are funded by american taxpayer money and it's the ngos bringing them. we're paying for our own invasion. >> martha: gerry, big event at the border tomorrow. president biden will be in eagle pass. president biden is going to brownsville. why brownsville? >> hardly any illegal crossings

and he can say there's no problem here. it's another part of this denial of reality problem. paul is right. we have this nexus of migration and crime. this -- obviously this terrible murder of laken riley. our hearts go out to her family and our prayers are with her and her family. that is -- what is so striking about that story, not that just the prime suspect is the illegal immigrant but the fact that he was released having committed crime here in new york city. thanks, again -- this goes way beyond just the immigration problem. thanks to these soft on crime policies that many of our cities have where they -- so-called sanctuary city where they're not going to move to -- when someone, an illegal migrant commit as serious crime, they're not going to do anything to cooperate with immigration authorities to get that person out of this country because they don't belong in this country.

instead what happens, they're allowed to carry on. he disappears and goes to -- alleged to be the killer of laken riley. it's an indictment of the failed immigration policies of this administration and it's an indictment of these soft on crime prosecutors, sanctuary cities, law and order, so and called law and order policies. >> martha: i only have a minute. i want to ask you about your reaction to senator mitch mcconnell, the longest serving leader, republican leader in the senate. announced today as of november he will be leaving the senate. your thoughts. >> yeah, it's been a long run for mitch mcconnell. he's had a rough time the last year. we've seen that. he's fallen out with president trump at various points. looks like he will endorse him. he was one of the great sort of manipulators of the senate. i mean that in the best possible way. he was a master tactician. he managed to get -- probably

most memorably, supreme court nominations that wouldn't have gone through. this country owes one supreme court nomination to mitch mcconnell's genius in handling the senate. he has a good record overall. he's ability to get the results that conservatives wanted. he was a master at it. >> martha: he's leaving leadership. i wanted to be clear. thanks, gerry, paul. thanks for joining us this afternoon. coming up, an interview that you'll only see on "the story" with independent presidential candidate rfk jr. and voters who are still dealing with the impact of one year ago's toxic train derailment in east palestine, ohio. you'll hear their voices. they're very powerful. i promise you. they'll speak about how they feel about their government, the response, all of that next. rfk jr. is in that conversation and then hour one-on-one coming up. >> if i get elected in november, i'm going to find the people

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>> martha: it was the site of one of the worst environmental disasters in decades. east palestine, ohio. a town of the population less than 5,000 people were on february 3 of last year, a norfolk southern train baffling through town as it does every nine minutes. this one was around 9:00 p.m. that night. a wheel bearing overheated, came off, derailing 53 train cars carrying vinyl chloride and other chemicals, spewing them in to the air and the ground and three days later, officials made the determination that rather than risk an explosion, they were going to do a controlled burn.

a decision that many residents believe was devastating to their health and their property. shortly after that, they were told it's safe. you can head back home now. so we were on the ground yesterday in east palestine where was joined by rfk jr. he's of counsel with a firm that represents some of the victims in this case, not the people we spoke to there but their cases against norfolk southern. also a presidential candidate. so we got a take from ohio and pennsylvania voters just a few miles away over the border. watch this. >> let me start with lori and wayne who are joining us from pennsylvania today. you're just 3 1/2 miles away, right? >> yes. that's correct. yes. >> martha: what can you tell us? >> well, when it happened, we were dumbfounded. we didn't know what was going

on. all we heard was sirens. we were all in bed. fast forward, we started getting burning in the lips, watery eyes, nauseated. and dry mouth, dry lips. fast forward 18 weeks after the train was blown up unnecessarily, i might add, that's been proven, i was diagnosed with breast cancer. so july 10th of 2023, i had to have a double mastectomy. since then, i've gone through four rounds of chemotherapy. our daughter, 24 years old, she's asking us questions like am i going to be allowed -- can i have children after this? we don't have the answers. we don't know. she's due to be tested as well

next month. >> she fears cancer. she does ask us, am i going to be okay? am i going to be able to have children? am i going to get cancer? we can't answer those questions for her. because we don't know. >> martha: i want to play a sound bite. this is president biden who has just visited recently about a year later. let's listen to this. >> let me be clear, while there are acts of god, this was an act of agreed that was 100% preventible. let me say it again. an act of agreed that was 100% preventible. these railroad counts have to do this safely. norfolk southern failed. >> martha: what is your reaction when you listen to that, linda? >> i honestly don't know.

i really don't believe anything that anybody says anymore. biden he had gone on to say, that we're going to continue receiving the assistance that they have been providing all along. we're not getting assistance from local government, from county, from state, from federal. we're not getting anything. so basically what he said is we're going to keep doing nothing. >> martha: what do you say to that, mr. kennedy? >> i like mr. biden's pledge that he's going to hold norfolk southern responsible. but this occurred because the failure of government. norfolk southern was paying its executives 80% of their salary comes from reducing costs. that's where their bonuses comes from. the company should be criminally charged for what it did to this community. it was an act of theft. it stole the property values, stole the health, stole the pursuit of happiness from this

wonderful community. >> they stole our lives. >> yeah, stole the lice of people. >> martha: all of you were nodding your heads. how does it impact how you look at this election? >> you know, we have seen so many people that have come through this community over the last year. many of them have been just self-serving. they have used this as an opportunity for their own personal professional growth, not nothing genuine. we have seen a few. we have seen a few genuine folks come in that have wanted to help us. but we're so tired of hearing they're going to make it right. we want specifics. >> our human health, you know, it's not a red or bluish you. this is an issue of human lives. politics has no business in this issue when it comes to children's lives. you know, the thing that i say kind of what she said, boots on

the ground, that's the problem. they don't know what is going on at the federal level. you have to be connected to the people. >> martha: let me ask you, mr. kennedy. if this happened and you were president, what would you do on day one? do you evacuate the town? do you let people go back? what do you do? >> well, preliminarily, we need to unravel the corporate capture, dot, that allowed this to happen. right now you know, president biden says that he's going to fix this problem. hold them responsible. why isn't the attorney general investigating this and filing criminal charges? this is a crime. what happened here? this whole town is a crime scene. what i would love to see president biden say is to come in and say, you know, this happened because of a failure of government. this happened because these agencies are corrupt.

i'm not going to tolerate it anymore. i'm going to expose the people and fire the people who are not doing the proper testing. i'm going to prosecute the people who are responsible with the outset. instead of kind of a vague promise that we're going to take care of everybody. >> martha: i want to thank all of you for joining us today. sharing your stories here. there's nothing like meeting people that have been through this first hand and helping all of us understand your stories. so thank you. >> martha: yeah, they talked about the fact that they believe the epa is in bed with norfolk southern. so they do the tests and they say the tests came back fine. then they bring in their own independent testers that give them different information. you can see why they're so frustrated. we ask norfolk southern for an update how they're helping the residents of east palestine. they told the story we've been on the ground since day one. we had a promise to make it right.

we're keeping our promises. to date, the company has committed $104 million to the community, completed remediation and made work on water and health commitments according to the company. you can hear the whole conversation which i really encourage you to do. it's very compelling. more of my interview with rfk jr. and what he says about president biden's fitness for office and also his efforts to secure the southern border. that is next. >> we should end the catch and release program and have a cap and return program at the border. >> martha: build a wall? (♪) some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate.

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>> martha: now back to my conversation with independent presidential candidate, robert

kennedy jr. for his battle to get on the ballot in more states, the accusations that he's a spoiler candidate and what he would do about what he says is the crisis at the border. he's been there twice in recent months. >> martha: so you're on three state ballots right now. how will you get on the others? you started your own we the people party and a libertarian area where you could get on ballots in that way as well. what is the plan and how quickly will it happen? >> we're going to be announcing new states every week from now on. we're way ahead of our benchmarks. we will be on the ballot in 50 states and the direct of columbia. we have -- i think we have 80,000 volunteers now on the ground. we're finding it extraordinarily easy actually to persuade people to sign and we're ahead of all of our expectations. >> martha: what do you say to those that say you're just a

spoiler? you were critical of ralph nader, saying that he was going to hurt the environment by handing the election to george w. bush. what do you say to those that say you're in the same position? >> i hope to be a spoiler for both president trump and president biden. i hope to take votes from each of them and win the election. >> martha: so you don't consider yourself a spoiler? >> no. i'm not here to do anything except to win. >> martha: president biden was in an ice cream shop. he was asked about gaza. he said, while eating ice cream, oh, there's going to be a cease fire by the weekend. not the weekend, right after the weekend. and it's not the first time that we've heard him take on serious foreign policy issues in that light environment. we don't hear a lot in terms of laying out his thinking on some of these big foreign policy issues. what do you think about his candidacy at this point?

>> i think he needs to come out of the white house and show americans that he has a cognitive capacity and mental acutie to handle his job that is challenging time now at least in recent american history where facing issues that are existential, we're involved in two wars. we have ai coming down, which is going to change everything. there's enormous dangers in it. we need and -- we have an economic crisis in this country. the middle class is disappearing. it's been torpedoed. 57% of the americans can't put their hands on $1,000. where an entire generation of kids can't buy a home, this is a crisis. we need a president that is thinking about these things. who is articulating the solution for the american people. >> martha: do you not have

confidence that he can serve? >> i think he needs to show americans that. a lot of these decisions are on the products of complex and nuanced thought. those thoughts need to be articulated to the american people in a way that we all support him. i do not think that that's happening now. our children's lives are dependent on that 3:00 a.m. call. we need to know that we have a president that can wake up in the middle of the night and who is on his feet and thinking about those things. i'm not -- i don't think -- i think a lot of americans have lost confidence in that. >> martha: so you're saying you don't think he's in charge? >> you know what? i have a personal issue, which is my secret service protection. i have known president biden for 40 years. he was a friend. with all of the issues about,

you know, him, he was somebody that i thought at least had a fundamental decency. and the fact -- i just don't believe that he would have personally made the decision to deny me from secret service protection. i think somebody else is making those decisions. >> martha: so you've been supportive of israel's battle in gaza. what about now? would you be encouraging israel to stop the bombing in gaza or do you support as netanyahu has called for that they have to finish the job and eliminate hamas? >> you know, i think israel has a right to defend themselves. hamas says we don't want to negotiate. they want the annihilation of israel, the extermination of the jews and that part of the world. so i'm not a fan of benjamin netanyahu's.

i don't think most israelis are. most israelis are -- israel today is unified because they feel embattled, feel this is an existential risk to them. it's a complex issue and it's not easy. but we have to look at what is -- how do you avoid civilian deaths over the long-term just immediately. >> martha: there's some discussion that joe biden could lose the vote in michigan based on a stance that is very similar to the one that you just presented. because he could lose 200,000 muslim voters in michigan. michigan is a state that you just put on the list of one you might win. is that going hurt you there? >> i think we need to make that distinction that hamas is not the friend of the palestinian people. hamas is the abuser of the palestinian people. we need to point to hamas. when we see civilian deaths which are happening, which are

horrific, unacceptable, we need to understand that hamas is at fault. >> martha: let me ask you this. with regard to the border, there is a battle on capitol hill right now that conservatives -- many conservatives believe that you should secure the border before you send another dollar to help ukraine. do you agree with that? >> i mean, i think the ukrainian war should be ended. i think -- i wouldn't necessarily couple those issues, but i think that the ukraine war is a war of choice. that it's a war that is easily settled. and that we should not be spending any more money in ukraine. we need that money here. >> martha: do you believe that any person who has crossed the border and commits a crime should be deported from this country? >> of course. of course. they should be deported. the major thing is to shut down the border that we can do

overnight. you know, through a combination of policy, reinstating the migrant protect act, which requires people who coming through with asylum claims that their case be adjudicated in mexico, not the united states. we should end the catch and release program. have a catch and return program at the border. >> martha: build a wall? >> we need the wall. we need a physical barrier as a wall in the urban areas and places where migrants can disappear very quickly and we need other infrastructure including monitoring, long range cameras, lights, fences and a lot of the other areas. you don't need a wall 2,200 miles from brownsville, texas to san diego. you need a monitoring system. we have those in place. the biden administration dismantled them. >> martha: a lot more there. you can hear the entire discussion with the panel in east palestine and also my 1 on one with robert f. kennedy jr.

on the untold story podcast. both of those will be available, a double podcast drop this friday. i encourage you to listen to it at foxnewspodcasts.com. this breaking news while we showed you that. we now have an update on former president trump's appeal and his new york civil fraud verdict. an appellate judge has rejected his request to put a pause on the $454 million civil fraud penalty. the president did win his request to temporarily delay rulings that banned him from running a business in new york state and taking out loans from new york banks. with that, we bring in jonathan turley, constitutional law attorney and fox news contributor. jonathan, bit of a split decision there for the former president. his attorneys pushed this delay on the grounds that this amount is so enormous that it is exorbitant and punitive were their words. what did you think about this decision? >> well, it does give him a

little breathing room. it's still leaves him with a rather onerous burden. but the decision of the lower court in my view was unfair. the judge imposed an unprecedented penalty under this law for this type of conduct. in fact, none of views seen this law applied in this way. by doing so, you not only hit trump with this massive award, but required trump to put the money up front under a separate rule, which requires you to deposit money or to get a bond. then trump was hit with a 30-day deadline to do so. and then on top of that, he was unable to do business with some of the new york banks. most of us felt that that was really beyond the pale. at some point it becomes c

confiscatory just to bring an appeal. if you're contesting an order taking your home, you shouldn't have to sell your home to appeal that order. but people like attorney general james we're talking about precisely that. she's naming properties that she might seize or he might sell just to get the court of appeals to look at this opinion. so it is a mixed victory for trump. but it does give him some more options he didn't have before. >> she's very gleeful about this situation that he's in right now. she said, you know, i look up at 60 wall street every day. if he sells that, he could solve this problem. she's also putting on her x account every day the newly a crewed amount, including the new interest that happens daily on this amount. does he have any further recourse on this amount in your opinion, which is due in a couple weeks now. >> yeah, it's very hard in order

to get a further review. he can ask for it. i do think that he has very good grounds here to say that this was an excessive award and also the conditions for appeal are beginning to shock the conscious, at least they should. so i think he can push further. he's unlikely to succeed with the court of appeals. >> martha: it's extraordinary. the largest single judgment against any individual i believe in american history in this decision here against the former president. it's a victimless crime as they have admitted in this court. they came up with an exorbitant judge in his opinion. thanks. >> he will get that appeal. that's the key. he has to come up with the money. >> martha: thanks, jonathan. that's "the story" for today. i'll see you on "the five" tonight.