glad to be on the ground at home. >> we're glad you are here and safe. a lot of near misses, flying is getting more dangerous. have a great wednesday. thank you very much. all right. >> steve: it's good they could still drive the plane. >> ainsley: and land safely. you are heading down to south carolina right after the show. >> lawrence: i'll be in myrtle beach tomorrow and have breakfast. >> steve: on friday we'll host our program from columbia, south carolina. i believe we're not too far from the campus. >> ainsley: on saturday, for "fox & friends" weekend i will stick around down there. we'll be at a diner, lizard's thicket between 6:00 and 10:00 a.m. join us there. don't let us sit at the diners by ourselves. >> steve: south carolina here we come. >> ainsley: bye, everyone. >> she is here, down by 30, 35

points. everybody knows you are not supposed to lose your home state. shouldn't happen and she is losing it big. >> bill: sounding off in south carolina, former president trump dismissing his rival in a fox news town hall. the former governor nikki haley his rival joins us with her first response in a moment here. good morning, i'm bill hemmer live in new york. big two hours. a lot moving. >> dana: we will take a deep breath and take you through it. i'm dana perino and this is "america's newsroom." great to have you here with us this morning. the republican primary in south carolina is three days away. the former president was there last night. he spoke out about his legal battles, growing border crisis, and debating president biden. he also attacked nikki haley for vowing to stay in the race beyond saturday's election. >> the former governor is here to respond to it all and speak to her in moments. last night yet again here is more of what the former president had to say on the issues and more. >> i am way up on him now in the

polls. frankly, i think we have an obligation. when you have the final republican and democrat and two people we have to debate. we had the safest border we've ever had. now the most unsafe. the worst border in the history of the world. there has never been a border of any country anywhere in the world that has been like this. all biden had to do was stay at the beach. he canceled everything. remain in mexico, catch and release. we have catch and release. we had release in mexico. they're sleeping on madison and fifth avenue. horrible what's going on. the people are very unhappy. letitia james is horrible attorney general in new york. campaigned on i will get trump, i will get trump. we went through a trial. it turned out we're totally innocent on everything and he fined me $355 million plus interest and other things. this is all coming out of the white house. this is all -- everything that you see whether it's that one or the d.a. bragg's office.

he has his top people from the d.o.j. working in the district attorney's office in new york. nobody knows that. everything is coming out. this is all election interference. they are trying to damage me so they can win another election. they usually use the word revenge. will there be revenge? my revenge will be success. i have become an expert at law. [laughter] if i didn't have run i wouldn't have any of these lawsuits. none of them. they would have gone on to the next. look, nicki has no chance but if she ever did they would go after her the same way. >> dana: let's bring in presidential candidate nikki haley. great to have you here this morning. we find you in greenville, south carolina, three days until the primary. i was reminded of something you said on january 28th from "meet the press" after new hampshire. watch here. >> what i do think i need to do is show i'm building momentum and show that i'm stronger in south carolina than new hampshire. does it have to be a win? it doesn't have to be a win but

certainly has to be better than what i did in new hampshire and close. >> dana: you lost to trump by 11 points in new hampshire. the polls show that you are down quite a bit more than that going into the south carolina. what do you mean when you say that you need to do better than new hampshire in south carolina? >> our goal needs to be being competitive. i will tell you the only poll that matters. i know people love to talk about polls. they said i was 30 points down going into new hampshire. that didn't happen, either. the other poll that matters is the one on election day. we had hundreds of people in south carolina last night and hundreds of people in rock hill and 1300 people. our crowds are big and passion is high. reality is they don't want the two most disliked politicians in america to be their only choice and that's what we are seeing in south carolina. i think that that matters. we want people to have a choice not just in south carolina but

michigan and all the super tuesday states. we'll continue to run through the states and do everything to show people you don't have to settle for trump and biden. we can do better. >> bill: nice to have you back here. three states have voted, two counties you have won in all those states. you did an extended interview with associated press and your answer was instead of asking me what states i'll win, why don't we ask how he is going to win a general election, meaning trump after spending a full year in a courtroom? the question is this. do you see yourself as an insurance policy in the republican nomination? >> well, what i see myself is making sure that we as republicans do everything we can to win. look, he has already had i think three verdicts against him now. over half a billion dollars. he will have to pay. all he talks about is these court cases. he is not talking about the american people. it is a problem. he will be in court march, april, may and june by his own words. he will be spending more time in

a courtroom than on the campaign trail. that's not how republicans win. we can't win if donald trump is the nominee. i will say this until my last breath. it is not about who wins the primary, it is about who wins the general election. we can't change this country if we don't win. poll after poll shows he can't win but also all he does is he is completely distracted about himself and these court cases and revenge and all that goes with that. we can't win that way. >> bill: you do see yourself as an insurance policy depending how these court cases turn out. >> i very much see myself as a republican option that people can realize when you see donald trump can't win and you no he that we have to turn this country around, then i'm your alternative. that's what i've always tried to say is let's get somebody who can win. when i defeat biden by double

digits it's how you win a general election. not geting in a courtroom or where you are taking the side of putin over our allies who stood next to us at 9/11. you don't win an election by mocking military members. you don't win and election by refusing to debate or calling people names. that's not going to work. you win an election by touching hands, answering questions and guess what, making it about the american people and not about yourself. the problem donald trump has. the problem joe biden has. it's the reason over 70% of americans don't want trump or biden. >> dana: one of the things that he has brought up is that he believes that your support is coming from democrats. listen to him here last night. >> the democrats are giving her money and she is playing into the game. i think she just can't get herself to get out. she is doing poorly. if she was doing well i would understand it. she is doing very poorly. >> dana: what about that in terms of democratic support or

funding coming to your campaign? >> he just lies, he does. he has democrats who donated to his campaign. look at his disclosures. i'm proud that we have over 265,000 donations from all 50 states, 95% of those donors are $2 hundred or less. these are real grassroots american people saying don't let our only choice by two -- 80 year olds. look at his disclosures. i don't ask donors whether they are republican, democrat or independent. we're fighting for the republican primary. there are a lot of independents who left the republican party because of donald trump. we are pulling them back. we're pulling independents back and reagan democrats back and republicans need to remember this is not about pushing people

out of our party. that is about bringing people into our party. that's how we win an election and i do well with everybody, not just republicans or independents. >> bill: the thing you said yesterday how do you win a general elections when the cases keep going and judgments keep coming. the evidence suggests in the polling the more times he shows up before a judge, his numbers go higher. and you with all due respect have yet to defy that in this campaign. when does that change, if at all? >> just wait. just wait. march, april, may, june. when you see this and he is completely distracted and the american people are worried about the 34 trillion in debt, worried their kids can't read, worried about an open border, they're worried at wars around the world and talking about how he is a victim and comparing himself to navalny because he is

in a court case where navalny lost his life to putin because he was fighting him on corruption. it's all about him. that's the problem with donald trump. he is obsessed with himself and now with these court cases and i don't blame him, you owe half a billion dollars, that's a pretty big tab that you have to pay that he will have to focus on that. i'm focused on the american people. that's what we need to do. joe biden is not going to be the nominee. i would make any bets about that. the party that gets rid of their 80-year-old candidate is the party that will win. >> dana: who do you think will be the democratic nominee? >> i have said there will be a female president of the united states. it will either be me or kamala harris. if donald trump is the nominee, mark my words, we'll see a president kamala harris. >> bill: thank you for your time. we'll see you on saturday, your home state. >> look forward to it. thank you, guys. go to nikki haley.com.

>> our coverage begins saturday night 7:00 eastern with bret and martha. we'll talk again. thanks. >> dana: major step forward in the impeachment inquiry of president biden. a house panel is set to sfwir view his younger brother james behind closed doors a short time from now. his testimony coming a week before hunter biden will sit before the same committee. david spunt live on capitol hill. hi, david. >> hi. jim biden will answer questions. what we expect will be most of the day on capitol hill. this is a transcribed interview. it is not a deposition meaning he is not under oath. however lying to congress is a big no no. in fact, it is a federal crime to do so. this is part of the impeachment inquiry into jim biden's big brother, president joe biden. republicans believe jim biden will lead them down new avenues to confirm facts about joe biden alleged involvement in family business affairs. democrats argue it is not

related to joe biden and his presidency. house republicans including the man leading the impeachment probe, james comer, have always said joe biden is the brand, the brand other family members like they used to make money. the president called for an end to the impeachment probe. one week from today hunter will answer questions in the same building on capitol hill. this will be a deposition and hunter will be under oath. he originally was supposed to talk with impeachment investigators in december but didn't show for that meeting. speaking of hunter and joe biden the former f.b.i. inform ant used by years charged with lying to the bureau when he told the bureau that both joe biden and hunter biden took $5 million each in bribe from ukrainians. he has contacts with high-level russian intelligence meeting with sources a few months ago according to a new filing yesterday from special counsel david weiss during a detention

hearing for 43-year-old smirnov. ultimately a judge decided to release him on his own recognizance with a gps device. he believes smirnov was actively trying to influence the 2024 election this year by using russian intelligence contacts. >> dana: thank you, keep us posted. >> bill: there is a desperate search for an 11-year-old girl last seen on her way to catch a school bus coming to a tragic end. awful story there. we'll fill you in what we've learned so far. >> dana: revolving door of justice in new york city. migrants assaulting nypd officers and getting off scot-free. what democrat mayor is speaking about the violent confrontations. >> bill: it's like they sent out an e-vite for the southwest border. fox news cameras capturing migrants from all over the world trekking across the border with

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>> my heart aches with this news and i express with my deepest sympathies and condolences to everyone who knew and cared for and loved audrey. >> dana: a tragic end in the disappearance of missing 11-year-old girl in texas. audrey cunningham vanished last thursday on her way to school. her body was found yesterday and it was in a local river. mcdougal who lived in a trailer

behind her father's home was named a person of interest. district attorney plans to charge him with capital murder. we'll bring you more as we have that. he has been silent up to now. >> bill: fox news alert right now on the border. cameras captured an explosion of illegal crossings in southern california. >> dana: some of the asylum seekers are coming from as far away as china and india. bill melugin reporting live from jacumba, california. >> remember, harris's office has been concentrating on the root causes of migration from the three northern triangle countries. we haven't met a single person from any of those three countries, mostly from asia, africa, south america. the team shot this video yesterday afternoon. another group of illegal immigrants crossing here in the jacumba area from around the world. border patrol reporting since october 1st out here they have had 140,000 illegal crossings,

over 20,000 of which have been chinese nationals. that's up over 500% over the same time last year. after this group came in, we asked them where they are all from. listen. >> where are you from? >> india. china, georgia. georgia. >> why are you from? >> india. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> china. >> georgia. >> china. >> i lost my -- this is tents and little structures built by a local ngo volunteer group that helps the migrants. they have also delivered food and water to them. have some rough weather out here today. it gets cold and windy up here.

migrants are lucky these volunteers come out and help them. they were out building these structures you see behind us. back out here live you can see that camp behind me right now. very bad weather out here this morning. downpours of rain, very cold and windy. migrants are in the tents behind us now trying to shield themselves from the weather. you can see interstate 8, the freeway behind us as well. border patrol has told us they have made human smuggling busts where cars are trying to pick up some illegal immigrants from the camp behind us. send it back to you. >> dana: thank you so much. new york city mayor eric adams speaking out about violent confrontations between migrants and police officer. we showed you this video from a migrant shelter that shows residents throwing things and yelling at officers as they tried to make an arrest. cb cotton is live from times square. >> good morning. once again a confrontation between nypd officers and

migrants is caught on video inside a shelter this time. the latest in a series of violent encounters in that video you see officers clocked in the head with a book bag, water bottle and other items trying to make an arrest. they are reviewing what happened and the mayor called on washington for help. >> any time you have 3,000 people who are placed in an environment they cannot work, they have to sit around all day, you know, things like this have the potential to happen. >> another case several migrant men charged for their roles during an assault on a pair of nypd officers in times square. prosecutors say there was juan at the center of the attack and back in court yesterday after he initially posted a $15,000 bail. the court is looking where the money came from. bail shouldn't be on the table according to the police union. >> what makes anybody think he

will behave on the streets of city of new york. >> eric adams says he supports the city keeping its sanctuary status but a status that doesn't let police work with ice for those who commit violent felonies. >> bill: college hand-out on your dime. president biden scrapping student loan debt for tens of thousands of americans. how much of your taxpayer dollars will pay for that move? are democrats gearing up to replace the president at the top of the ticket? these rumors are everywhere, huh, dana? even tony is talking about it, right? california governor gavin newsom, michelle obama, take your pick. carley and brian are here to react. come on in you two. all right now. ♪

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>> bill: half past the hour.

markets are open. a check of that in a moment. new york's a.g. james saying she is ready to seize former president trump eva's assets if he can't come up with the cash to cover that whopper of a fine from last friday. friday the judge ordered him to pay nearly $355 million in a civil fraud matter. trump's team says they will appeal. lydia hu is live outside trump tower in manhattan with the latest today. good morning. >> good morning, there, bill. that's right. that means the massive new york city buildings owned by the former president donald trump like trump tower behind me could be targets for new york general james. watch. >> if he does not have funds to pay off the judgment, then we will seek judgment enforcement mechanisms in court and we'll ask the judge to seize his assets. >> but trump's legal team says they will appeal and to prevent

the attorney general from seizing properties, they have only 30 days from that verdict to pay cash for the $355 million fine into an escrow account, or post an appeal bond. last night the former president would not say whether he will have to sell one of his prize properties to cover these costs. >> i have a lot of cash but doesn't mean he can take it. he looked at my cash and he said we'll take all his cash. >> meanwhile it appears the former president is leading in the polls heading into south carolina's primary just this weekend underscoring the former president's point that all of this is about election interference to him. back to you. >> bill: more to come clearly. thank you, fifth avenue, trump tower, thanks. >> i think they will get rid of him. i think they will force him to step down. that's what i think.

if i had to guess, it's just speculation, i would say they're setting up newson for it. >> dana: are the democrats mulling a plan b? podcast host joe rogue an suggesting the party is lining up newsom to replace biden at the top of the ticket. let's bring in charlie shimkus and brian brenberg from fox business. he at least didn't say michelle obama. you know that. >> i do know with certainty it is not a good place for incumbent president to be for there to be this much speculation and concern over your ability to serve four more years and also not a good place to be if the plan b is not your running mate. >> dana: good point. >> i think something big and unforeseeable would have to happen for it not to be joe biden. if it is inevitable, why not

now? the clock is ticking. everybody thinks it will be him. who knows. >> bill: you are the money guy. gavin newsom governs a state that's 70 billion in debt. >> tough record to defend. tough to defend the crime. that's the problem. newsom looks good until you put him on the thing and then he has to talk about all this stuff. i like the razor approach here. the most simple explanation is the best one. biden stays on. kamala the running mate. if not him, her. the state of the union is the x-factor. it seems like the try-out. whatever wheaties he ate lastier worked. they will do the same thing this year. if he has another good one that's all you'll get. you won't get a debate or any big press conferences. a lot of tape of that. >> dana: four days later you have robert hur testifying in

front of congress as special counsel. when he was with me he couldn't remember a thing. want to ask you about this as well. i love the presidential fitness test when i was a kid. "new york times" has this article could you pass the presidential physical fitness test today. a mile run, pull yap or push-up, sit up, shuttle run and sit and reach. i loved this. >> i hadn't thought about the presidential physical fitness test in years. it brought me back to trying to do the mile run, psyching myself up for it. then the stretching and -- >> dana: i was good at that one. >> i did not get the gold star, dana. >> dana: i did. i had the sit-up record but the run was always difficult for me. >> and the kids walking it. >> bill: you are a runner, i

didn't know that was an option. you got the sit-up. you got the shuttle run and you have the -- what's the sit and reach? >> flexibility test. >> bill: and then you have president biden going up the stairs of air force one just yesterday. >> dana: that's not part of the physical fitness test. that's okay. he doesn't fail it. dana was the worst person in gym class for me because she would kill it on the pull-ups. you are a gymnast. >> dana: until i was 12. i was good until then. >> in elementary school i couldn't do one, you could do 20. >> dana: i had to go to the speech team instead. >> i didn't think about it when i was a kid. there is history to it. president obama got rid of it. johnson put it into practice because of cold war era fears that america is becoming soft. it started with throwing a

softball as well. >> dana: i believe christie everett was on president bush's physical fitness commission. we could go on and on down memory lane. >> bill: carley did her homework. >> dana: thanks. >> see you. >> bill: dual u.s./russian dancers arrested on accusations she when helped raise money for ukraine. a high school is pleading for help to contain a spiral of violence and drug use on its campus sending an s.o.s. to the state's national guard. >> we do need to take our schools back into control making sure our students have a safe learning environment. what's going on at the high school is disheartening and kids are losing precious learning time when kids are causing chaos.

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>> bill: it may not look like much. microphone to the left and looks like to me and a blank wall in the background. jim biden is about to be there in about 50 minutes' time. he will sit for a trans described interview with the house oversight and judiciary commissioners on the impeachment inquiry for president biden. it will get underway 10:30 a.m. eastern time. if tony bobulinski's testimony is a reflection of today, this could go for a very, very long time. stand by we'll get the intro and see whether or not jim biden has something to share before going behind closed doors from washington. >> dana: jury selection is starting today in the case of rust, the armor's lexie rigden. she is charged with

manslaughter. alec baldwin has also pleaded not guilty in a separate case. helene yeah hutchins was shot by baldwin during a rehearsal for the film. they say there was a live round loaded in the gun. >> biden administration it will forgive 1.2 billion of student loan debt. he made it a major campaign issue as he suffers in the polls with young voters and middle class. edward lawrence takes us through that. how high will it go? >> the president will make that announcement while in los angeles. to get here the biden administration changed the rules and relaxed regulations on income-driven repayment plans. today as you mentioned the first batch of students has been identified under the saving on a

valuable education plans to have loans forgiven based on new rules. 153,000 borrowers who made payments for at least ten years to have less than $12,000 in loans will have that wiped out at the cost to all taxpayers equaling 1.9 billion for today's move. so far all taxpayers have supported 138 billion in student loan forgiveness under president biden. last week the congressional budget office director testified there is more money in the pipeline based on the rule changes. listen to this. >> he put in place the save rule so an income-driven repayment and we have evaluated the fiscal impact of undoing that regulation and that is -- it's more than $1 hundred billion dollars. >> 125 is what we talked about in the education committee visit we had recently. >> the president has tried to pass all the costs of all the student loan forgiveness to taxpayers at once last year that

would have cost 441 billion. by changing the rules and putting his plan into place piece by piece, using the cbo estimates for what's going on the president is well more than halfway to his goal in the original plan. the latest monmouth poll out shows that 45% of americans or families are saying the president's plans have not helped them at all. that could be why he is trying to get this redone under the guise of free money to change that perception. >> bill: can it be challenged? >> no. at this point it cannot be challenged in court. this is a rule-making process that went through proper procedure. it took a year to get here. now that we're here there is nothing that can be done. it can be reversed by another administration but not challenged. >> nice to see you north lawn. more to come. >> dana: a los angeles ballerina with dual russian citizenship is detained in russia on suspicion on treason. she appeared in court blindfolded and shackled.

the crime was donating $5one to ukraine. let's bring in u.s. ambassador to ukraine bridget brink. thank you for joining us. does russia feel emboldened to take american citizens hostage? >> thanks so much for having me on. saturday is the two year mack of russia's brutal full scale invasion and i have to say in those two years, ukraine has taken 50% of the territory that russia has seized back. has protected its energy grid from thousands of missiles and drones and it is also reclaimed the black sea from the russian navy in order to support global trade. it has done this without a single u.s. soldier. >> dana: i want to get to that. i want to ask about this american citizen. dual u.s./russian citizen who donated $5one to support ukraine and now being held.

she was shackled, blindfolded in russia and what can the state department do when russia seems to feel emboldened to take our people? >> that's dana, it's a horrifying story. i don't know the details but i can say that based on the way putin treats his own people, it is of great concern how putin treats also american citizens. we all know of the terrible death of alexei navalny last week. putin is to blame. it's, of course, of great concern. >> dana: navalny not american citizen but gershkovitch and whalen are. one of the things biden is being asked to do by a republican from new jersey. he said i wish the president would do a major address to the country and say this is why and then lay it out. would you call upon the president? you work for him.

would you benefit from your efforts if the president were to lay out and say here is exactly why we need to do this? the most communication that we seem to get from him lately is when he is leaving the white house back and forth to the helicopter and not a good exchange and people aren't hearing what he apparently believes. would you support and advocate for the president to speak out on it? >> thanks, dana. i might just say i think the president has been very clear. he has -- he made a major foreign policy address back in the fall to lay out the reasons why it's important for us to support ukraine. and he has been doing it consistently and we all have as well. it is quite a simple case. number one, based on my decades of experience in this region i don't think putin will stop. i think he will continue beyond ukraine. and number two, it sends a signal to would be dictators and

authoritarian regimes around the world. american leadership isy important and what we do matters. ukraine needs our help and they need it now. >> dana: he gave a speech last fall. the funding crisis is right now. i also wanted to ask you about this. we've been watching how the fallout from president biden's decision to end all lng permitting, which is a huge problem. in the "new york times" piece today he quotes an energy expert saying america's liquefied natural gas is part of nato's arsenal against russia. biden could restore u.s. credibility as an lng exporter by lifting the administration's pause on new lng permits and give europe and japan confidence to stop importing russian lng. from your perspective, from your experience at the state department, ambassadorall view as a strategy energy security is really important. would you ask the biden administration to reverse that

lng permitting decision? >> i agree that energy security is important and putin has been using energy as a weapon. with regard to lng i know we've been increasing our lng exports for quite a while now and this is something that has been important part of our strategy to help to wean europe off of russian energy. >> dana: but the president just ended all of the new permits. so you have countries in europe that are now signing contracts for long-term energy security that are not with the united states because they can't be. give you the final word. >> thanks very much. it's outside of my area of expertise at the moment i will say we strongly support energy independence for the countries of europe but also for all of us and also giving money, including the supplemental assistance to ukraine, is also something that is supports american jobs. it supports patriot missiles

made in arizona. it support artillery made in pennsylvania and tactical vehicles made in michigan. >> dana: thank you so much. >> bill: so much to cover on that. two-year anniversary coming up on saturday with the war beginning. in a moment we'll share with you an extraordinary story of a college baseball player who made history after losing part of his leg in a boating accident, parker byrd did something no one else has done. he will share his story coming up. ♪ are you tired of clean clothes that just don't smell clean? downy unstoppables in wash scent booster keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. get 6x longer-lasting freshness plus odor production with downy unstopables. try for under $5.

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>> have never flown higher for the first time in program history they've beaten number one. >> dana: fans stormed the court after creighton's blow-out win. the blue jays had never beaten a number one ranked opponent before last night. >> bill: they won by 20 over the number one team? check the rankings. >> dana: is there a mercy rule? >> bill: maybe we should consider one. it's almost march, right? the madness will be intense talking basketball. wide open field coming up shortly. >> dana: i don't know, i'm going to get into it. not whatever. very excited. >> bill: now we want our audience to check this out from last friday night. [applause] >> bill: you have to look

carefully. everyone in the stadium knew the right leg of that player is missing. he was a division i college baseball player. byrd had part of his right leg amputated after a boating accident two years ago. we believe he has done something no one else has. the first person to play in a division one baseball game with a prosthetic leg. he joins me now. you are inspiring a lot of people. how did it feel when you were back at the plate? >> awesome. just the rehab just to get back to that moment after my accident and just all the people that were there through everything, really, my p.t.s, coaches, teammates, family. just all the supportive owe had the whole time, getting back in that box was really key to everybody just to prove to people i'm still here. >> bill: i love the people. you were out tubing and you got

caught in the rope and you got dragged toward the motor on the back of that boat and that was followed by 22 surgeries and 54 days. how did you make it? >> yes, sir. just my support system, like i said. my family being there the whole time. ever since then my hospital stay, both my parents were in and out every single day to make sure that i had somebody there in the hospital. my sisters literally moved their whole entire life. we've lived in a little place in north carolina all my life. ever since i got out of high school they wanted to be near me. my dream was to get back onto the field and with that i would need as much support as possibly needed so just very thankful and blessed to have them in my life and to get to call them family. >> bill: it's so important. your coach said it's the proudest moment of his life.

that's heartwarming, isn't it? >> it's great. i have had a great career being the proudest moment of his life is really cool. >> bill: just because i lost a leg doesn't mean i've lost hope or my heart. you drew a walk, okay? so what's going to happen next time? put a little number on that ball? >> hopefully i get a strike to get a hit but i'm looking forward to it and i'll be ready. >> we're cheering for you. thank you for coming on. best to you, your teammates, coach and whole family. >> yes, sir, god bless. >> bill: parker byrd, thank you, good luck. >> [inaudible question] >> i'm not saying that at all. i'm just saying it doesn't change the underlying