with the least amount of use of force. >> they want order. mark fuhrman, thank you. they have brought in several s.w.a.t. team units we're told as well and appear to need all the help they can get. ladies and gentlemen, thank you for being with us tonight. and trusting us for this coverage. sean hannitiy is live now. and thanks, megyn. this is a. if news alert. angry protest turned deadly in charlotte, north carolina. town hall by the way with donald trump will air tomorrow night. one person tonight has been shot and killed during the clashes between the protesters and the police. it was a is you villain on civilian violence after several gunshot rang out in the middle of all this chaos. police say the victim was shot and killed by another civilian. the second night of unrest stemming from the shooting of a 43-year-old black man who police say was armed and disobeying orders. the victim's family is claiming he was only holding a book. police held a press conference earlier today and they tried to make the facts of the investigation open to the public and despite all of this we are

seeing this intense unrest tonight after 16 officers were injured last night. on the ground tonight in charlotte as our own steve her began. they've got tear gas, mace, rubber bullets and now holding as the police hold that line. >> reporter: that's right. can you see the police behind me. about a lun strong. been out here for more than an hour. right now they've pushed the crowd back after a heavy use of tear gas. and mace as well. they are being cursed at from the sidewalk by people. they've had bottles hurled at them and fireworks shot at them. at least seven officers have been injured. we don't know about the severity. this demonstration lasted an hour and half. at least one young man, african-american man, a protester killed. the city of charlotte is saying there was civilian on civilian

shooting. that doesn't mean much to these protesters who seem con vintsed it was yet another police shooting. so really we are seeing again here in this case in charlotte two different versions of what happened. an official version and version believed by many of the protesters when that shot rang out. we just saw them rundown this hill right here saying they shot another one. the police shot another one. so really, some white hot ienger here on the streets. people we have talked to. sometimes we try and grab the microphone out of your hand. just furious an not believing that we're going to give them a fair shake to say what they want to say. >> what are they saying there, steve? >> we've been given the word to disperse. we will obey that order to avoid arrest. we will see what happens to the people who refuse that order. we've heard that order several times. and it failed several times. police have pushed forward with tear gas over the course of 90 minutes. they have been able to move just

about a hundred yards so they have not had great success against protesters so far who despite the fact that one man has been killed, one man injured. and keeps regathering after each round of tear gas. so we will see if this group of not a very large group of police for the violence we have seen here is going to be able to take control of the street and make arrest, sean. >> steve, what is that guy in blue screaming at you? >> he is swearing at the police. cursing them out. we have seen them throw bottles. beer at the police. now we see the first arrest of a few people who remain out here. we will keep backing up. they have included media as well. >> yes. >> there is a conflict now breaking out there. >> there is looting as well. looting of the hotel and looting of a store here off to my left. right now, this street is empty. we have seen this come and go. build and empty. we can take a look here at the

souvenir stand. you can see this is one of the casualties, some vehicles smashed and looted as well. we saw protesters shouting at some of the people looting here, calling them idiots for ruining what they were trying to do here with the protests. a number of different groups among the 8 will 00 protesters. began around 7:00 and we saw a lot of families. mothers, fathers, young children. out for the march. out to see what is going on. take part in the historical event. like it did last night, it turned ugly again tonight. turned into a pitch battle and battle that police have not been able to gain control of as of yet. for the past 90 minutes they've gone back and forth. >> and steve, just to be clear, you say we have 16 officers injured last night. thankfully not seriously. you are saying reports of at least seven injured tonight. and tear gas as i saw you

reporting earlier tonight. you could feel it in the back of your throat. rubber bullets and you said mace was being fired at the crowd as well tonight. >> that's right. we have seen tear gas on multiple occasions. we have seen mace come out if in a spray. we have seen flash bang grenades to stun the crowd. a large flash and loud explosion. now the police are using their batons and beating on their shields and marching down the streets. right now just a few protesters in front of them. handful, six or ten hard core, the crowd anywhere from a dozen to about 800 at its peak. now just hard core remain. police right now are unopposed, but that could change when the crowd regathers as we have seen time and time again, sean. >> let me go to two different versions, steve, that emerged in this particular case. starkly different versions

emerged. police very adamant and saying that scott disregarded, repeated demand to drop his gun. a gun was found at the scene. also a holster apparently on his ankle. neighborhood residents are saying he was holding a book, not a weapon. as he waited for his son to get off the school bus. the police chief was adamant today in saying that the evidence would prove this. but there was the issue of why they didn't in fact release a video they have saying because it is an ongoing investigation? >> you're right, they haven't released that video because of the investigation. and the two versions of what happened could not be more different. on one, support betrayal of a loving father. waiting for his son at the bus stop. on the other, multiple convicted felon with a gun. and two extreme versions.

and playing out here again tonight. on one hand, protesters saying the police shot another young black man here. on the other,ity sthe city says it was civilian on civilian doing the shooting. two different versions. but it is clear from being in the crowd that the protesters do not believe the official version. they do not believe what the city of charlotte is saying. they do not believe what the mainstream media is saying. they do not believe the police shot another man. we will see how that plays out in days ahead. >> all right. we will check in with you throughout the hour and also any people you will be interviewing there. joining us is newt gingrich with us. mr. speaker, unfortunately, sadly we have seen this time and time again now in furgason, baltimore and it keeps happening. and you've got these two very distinct versions of what happened here and nobody seems to want to wait for a full complete investigation. we've had issues involving even

the president with the cambridge police in the trayvon martin case and what happened in furgason, missouri. rushing to judgment. the president and hillary clinton have embraced black lives matter. black lives matter activists on tape saying, what do we want, dead cops. when do we want it? now. pigs in a blanket. everybody rushing to judgment to blame police before the facts are in? >> during the last months of an eight-year presidency of the first african-american president in american history, eight straight years of african-american attorney general. and that the rhetoric and their approach and attitude has made these things worse, not better. that's an objective fact. but i think there are two really big truths bigger than any one city or incident. one is that no healthy society with tolerate this kind of

demonstration and violence when it involves looting or breaking the law. so you have to ultimately apply are whatever level of police power is necessary, including in some cases the national guard, in order to ensure that you don't tolerate that kind of thing. but there's a second half. and this is the deeper part of the anger that you see with some of the young people out there. no healthy society can trap hundreds of thousands, maybe several million people, in neighborhoods where schools don't work, there are no jobs. there is no public safety. there is no sense of hope. where despair is the norm and people feel totally abandoned. i think that's big part of what you're seeing. you see it again and again across the country. it is one reason that i'm very encouraged that donald trump has got the courage to go into neighborhoods that people normally get somebody on the republican side and say to them, look, we've got to try something new and something different. and i think that's big part of

this. the people here watching you are are yelling and angry, they are angry for deep reasons that don't have anything to do with any particular shooting. they feel that they have no future. they feel that they have no opportunity. they feel that they've been neglected and as i said, after eight years of the first african-american president, one of them said, they feel powerless and voiceless. what a tragic moment in that context. >> you know, mr. speaker, you're talking about the real root cause of why there is so much anger out there in the country. i often give statistics p. earlier today i spent an hour with donald trump in a town hall in a predominantly african-american church. part of the continued outreach you referred to. at the start of the program which we hope we can air tomorrow night, i gave out a lot of statistics about what happened in the last eight years. eight years particularly. the disproportionate impact on the black community.

58% increase in the number of african-americans on food stamps. 20% jump in the number of african-americans who are no longer in the work force. african-american homeownership rate is down. it is more than 20% lower than the national average. african-american unemployment, 8 8.1%. national average is 4.9. wage gap between african-americans and white are more than in the last 40 years. median income for african-american is $20,000 less. 20.1%, 10% higher than the national average. you know, then we look at, you know, crime problems. there have been, this year alone in the city of chicago, obama's hometown, 3100 people shot. since obama's been president, 3,660 people have been murdered. the vast majority, african-american. and i look at these sta test

iks, i guarantee you, most of our audience doesn't know the name of one single person. of the 3,660. but they know about trayvon martin and they know about furgason and freddie gray and they know about the cambridge police. why isn't the president -- why do we not pay attention to an epidemic when the statistics also show that 99.9% of cops do not treat people this way? >> i mean, here's the tragic secret of what's gone wrong with inner city african-american life. for that matter, inner city latino life in this country. that is the people who supposedly cared the most about them, liberal politicianes who got elected, many from their own ethnic background are basically owned by institutions that don't work. so you go into a place like detroit where 9% of students are learning, you go into baltimore

where 13% of age graders are able to pass a math test and 9% by the way is a reference to literacy i think in third grade. but you go around place after place, if you tried to go in there and create real improvement, you run head-on into the teacher's union which is against you. if you go in and try to create the kind of policing that rudy giuliani and the chief bratton use which brought down the murder rate by 85%, you run into liberals who would rather see people killed than have the kind of aggressive policing -- >> you're talking about stop and frisk -- >> but the murder rate in new york city and i lived here as it happened from about 2500 a year to below 500 a year. and a lot of the people that whose lives were saved because of policing in neighborhoods that needed it the most, were minority americans. and you're right, there was a lot of criticism. rudy took a lot of heat and called racist day in and day

out. by local newspapers ant liberal media. but lives were saved. >> what you have to recognize are two things. first, conservatives find this difficult to deal with. it is harder to be black in america. slavery was real. it is a terrific thing that smithsonian is opening this new museum of african-american history because i hope it will bring home to a lot of americans. slavery was real and terrible. segregation was real and terrible. discrimination still exists. if you're that one young black lady we saw in the last hour who was so angry, could barely articulate because she was so emotional and so fed up, you have to understand that her experience of life is different. the other side of that is, how are we going to make that, turn that corner so that her life could be dramatically better? that's going to require real willingness to go into these communities and have very

profound changes. >> we have two very distinct different stories that have emerged here and that is the community believes one thing, that this man was carrying a book. the police are saying, no, that's not what happened here. and we are talking about people around scott. and police say, no, he had a gun and on his ankle a holster. two very different stories. i want to go back. if we look at prior incidences, and i don't care if it is the cambridge police, trayvon martin or furgason. hand up don't shoot in furgason but black eyewitnesss that testified that it was michael brown after he robbed a store fighting a police officer, darren wilson for his gun. then charged at the officer. because of the testimony of black eyewitnesss and in fact he was exonerated. he was not charged. in the case of freddie gray. everybody had an expectation after listening to the local prosecutor and d.a. that there was going to be guilty verdicts

in those cases. all six officers found innocent. there was an expectation that george zimmerman would be found guilty. but trayvon martin was placed on top of george zimmerman who was heard screaming for his life and grounding and pounding hi head into the cement, into concrete. so my question is, the leaders, the president in this case, or hillary clinton, both of whom embrace black lives matter, what said, what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it? now. so all while ignoring violence of statistics, 3,660 dead, over 75% black americans in chicago since he's been president. >> obviously they bear a substantial responsibility for setting a tone. things are worse today. people are more angry today. they are more likely to disbelieve the police today. that's a large part of barack obama's contribution.

and in hillary's case, all the way back to when she was a student at yale, she was the associate editor of a radical newspaper which described police as pigs. she left yale to go to the west coast to work with a law firm with specialized in defending the black panthers. she recently, as recently as today, came out with one more anti-police statement. so in that sense, they deserve a great deal of responsibility. but let me remind you of something, sean, that might make you uncomfortable. you and i don't believe john kerry about virtually anything. we don't believe the president's white house about virtually anything. and in a way, the collapse of belief in american institutions isn't just inner city blacks, it is the establishment has lied so much on so many different topics and the news media has lied so much on so many different topics, that reestablishing a sense of trust, rebuilding a

belief that when the government talks is telling the truth, this is a big mountain for donald trump to climb because we start with this notion that white conservatives don't believe a, b and c. and black inner city folks don't believe d, e and f. so the whole system is shaky right now in a way that i think is very -- >> really well said. and polls bear that out about trust in the media. look at the exit polls in every primary. 65% of republicans feel betrayed by their party. mr. speaker, stay right there. we will get back to you in a moment. but first, there is breaking news. jonathan is on the ground right now. jonathan? >> reporter: hi, sean. police wanted to correct the record. earlier this evening they reported there was a shooting apparently involving a civilian on another civilian. reporting that one person had died in that shooting. they are now saying that the victim is still alive but on life support hanging on by a

thread. so they wanted to get that information out correcting the record. again, this is not the shooting that happened tonight out here at the protest. did not involve a police officer. apparently it was civilian on civilian violence. and because the protests here are turning violent, not just protesters turning on each other in the case of this shooting apparently, but also turning on police officers and so about two fwloks where i'm standing, there's a line of officers in riot gear. they are trying to clear people out of the area. the police chief says that authorities here have been very patient and protests started out peaceful but once they got violent, his main concern now is protecting everyone. regardless of what side of the story they're on, what side of the story they believe. his responsibility is to all of

the visitors here in charlotte and so authorities are trying to get people out of the area and get the protesters out and prevent any more violence. now while there is this report of this very serious injured civilian on civilian case involving a shooting, they say that no officers, no police officers have been injured tonight and that's a big difference from yesterday when at least 16 officers suffered injuries during protests turned violence, sean. >> that's really important. we have reports earlier that seven officers with were injured tonight. 16 last night. and also we had the police chief actually on the air in the last hour with megyn and he confirmed that this person was civilian on villain violence. that part of the story remains the same. but the only thing that changed, he did not die, he is in fact on life support and in our prayers of course. thank you so much, jonathan. we go back to steve harrigan who

is also on the ground. we've got two different shots there. i don't know if that is an outreach. they are smiling and somewhat talking to some of the people there. you are calling them stragglers earlier, steve. where are they now? >> that's right. as police move forward and pound their batons against their shield with their plexiglass helmets, they are moving forward slowly to take back the streets. we have seen a pitch battle between demonstrators and police and now with this march and several bottles of tear gas the police largely scattered protesters. if we look about 300 or 400 yards down the road there is still about 200, 300 protesters there. so the test will be when these two sides meet again. over and over again we have seen protesters rally, hurl bottles at police and retreat under the threat of tear gas. so the police are marching forward trying to take control

of downtown charlotte. we will see in a few minutes whether the protesters let that happen or not, sean. >> see the distance. i see the police moving in. i know have you spoke with some of the protesters earlier. you're now moving in their direction. moving towards them. is this just total doubt of ifrg that the police said? i mean, i know they haven't released the video. an investigation is ongoing. i understand all of that. but they either found a gun or didn't find a gun. they either found a book or didn't find a book. it seems pretty cut and dry whichever way the story will break. they say they had a gun, a holster, there was a picture of it. and the community is saying, no, it was a book and he wasn't doing a thing. so i would think that there would be some clarification to get that information out to the public. that hasn't happened. >> no, it hasn't happened. and the focus here now is on

more immediate things like who shot the young man here who is on life support clinging to life. was it a police officer? as many protesters say. or was it civilian on civilian shooting as city of charlotte says. so really a whole other case has got their attention. really it isn't about recent debate on the street. it is about emotion. have you people in a fury and who are throwing things at the police officers of their city. we have at least six police officers wounded again tonight. so it is an angry fight right now, right now a -- we could see a standoff over the next hour as the two sides get closer together again. >> you're saying that from what i can see, if we can pan your camera over to the other side we've got police, our shot on the police thinking, now turn the other dir towards the crowd. because what you're saying is they regathered and they are now about 300 of them where earlier you said it was reduced it a

dozen and they keep regrouping. what is your estimate of how many people are now standing on the other side of the police with this huge gap between them? if you can show us the crowd of protesters. >> sure. i will ask chris to turn around and show you. they have their shirt off wrapped around their nose or mouth to protect them from tear gas. it looks small. a very fluid situation where numbers come and go. i would say right about now about 80 protesters. at a time we saw about 800. >> thanks so much for being with us. steve harrigan on the ground. we will get back to you throughout the hour tonight. joining us on the phone, watching all of this, former new york mayor rudy giuliani. we did a town hall tonight in cleveland. >> i saw it. >> we did it with donald trump.

one of the things that came up is the whole issue of how to handle crime in big cities. we have now seen this in furgason, in baltimore and around the country. >> breaks my heart. >> me too. >> to see this breaks my heart and makes me feel like my eight years of work of new york city went for naught. i took over a city that had two major riots much like this in the years before i was mayor. i had eight years without riots. i would not per mate riot. i had three major shootings. one was justified shooting. one was an ambiguous shooting. one was a totally unjustified shooting. and the police officer is sitting in jail for 25 years. and this has come from a lack of leadership. this comes from the fact that the african-american community

has been said a false narrative from the very top. including the president of the united states. to attorneys general. secretary of state. who found the police officers in baltimore guilty after they were found not guilty. by an african-american judge that they had. and never apologized for it. they are being fed a group of lies. the truth is the only thing that will set you free. not a series of lies. and in a situation like this, people have to have confidence in their leadership. even if they don't like them. even if they disrespect them, they have to have confidence to believe that there is a fair and just adjudication. >> but there's conflicting stories. people scott had a gun, add holster, where there's picture of as police are saying, or he was holding a book. which the police say there was

no book. there doesn't seem to be any gray area here. >> it is either one or the other. and what president of the united states, i will say governor mccrory and the mayor should be saying is, wait, let us investigate this. if you don't like the result you can protest. but i've got to tell you one thing, you don't get to throw rocks. you don't get to shoot. you don't get to loot. none of that happens. under any circumstances. >> how would you hand they'll differently. >> an unjustified shooting. you do not get to destroy the property of some other african-american man or woman who has a business in that area. this is absurd what we have happening here. we have gone back eight to ten years in race relationships because of what barack obama and are eric holder and a president

attorney general and hillary clinton have done which is jump immediately on these incidents and try to politicize them. and in fact this man walked out of the car with a gun, of course the police officer is going to shoot him. would you shoot him. you're not going to wait until the man pulls his gun up and shoots you. it might be too late. if he doesn't have a gun then the police would belong in jail. >> really that cut and dry. look, we've watched now two nights a row here. now can you see that the crowd is growing and getting bigger once again. police have used tear gas, rubber bullets, mace and flash bang. grenades. and my question to you is if this was your city and you saw this happen last night, what would you be doing -- >> wouldn't happen. >> how would it not happen? >> i set the rules down on day one. i gave a speech and talk and i met with leaders and i said, you goat protest all you want. but you take my streets, aarift

you. you three rock, i put you in jail. you shoot a gun, we're going to shoot back. i have 41,000 police, i don't know how many you have, but you're not going to riot in my city. in an american civilized so site, there's no place for rioting. we have a criminal justice system. in baltimore, the three police officers acquitted were acquitted by extraordinarily courageo courageous african-american judge. the shooting i had that was most ambiguous, police officers were convicted by a jury including african-american. we have to educate people. to understand that the criminal justice system is a fair system. and the fact that there may be more blacks in certain communities than white is merely a function of the fact that right now as we are speaking here tonight, two or three blacks will be shot in chicago.

and nobody will pay attention. >> and nobody the talk about it. >> average is -- >> since obama has been president. >> none of these people protesting give a damn about those black lives. i had to -- i had to care about those black lives. and i saved somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 of them. no mayor in the history of new york city saved more like lives than i did. i cared about the ones they don't pay attention to. >> over 3,000 citizens of chicago shot this year. and since obama's been president -- >> no protesting in chicago about the terrible schools in chicago. about the jobs in chicago. about the lack of opportunity in chicago. about the fact that chicago has been run by democratic rules for 50 years that has deteriorated the state. we can substitute detroit for that. we can substitute any other city you want for that. you don't provide good schools because you're afraid to stand

up for the teacher's union. then have you children who are poorly educated. you don't provide jobs because you drive jobs out of your city because there is so much crime. you don't provide jobs for your people thp they become frustrated. they become angry. they look to scapegoat african-american politicians mostly and agitators don't want it say that because the teacher's union owns them. >> mr. mayor, there is something profound we have to address. a president so quick to rush to judgment in cases where he has been proven wrong. in cambridge, furgason, baltimore, florida. trayvon martin. now-db and he doesn't even talk about 3,660 -- am i looking that right? is that a fire? looks like there's a fire. mr. mayor, hold on one second if i can. >> sure. >> hold on one second.

let me go to steve harrigan on the ground. maybe he can give us insight. there is definitely a fire there. steve, i understand you're actually with the protesters. tell us what is going on? >> that's right. sean, you can see the police about 50 yards in front of with us riot shields. they say anyone who is still here will get arrested. i want to know why you're still here. >> because the fact is that police did do not understand yet to the day that people have to stand up for what they believe in. you guys are out here, media, press and everyone else is out here because you believe in a story. we believe in the fact that there is unjust. we believe that this is wrong. we believe they are about to run up on us and so do some danger. there for i will tell you this, i've done no wrong. i will not do no wrong and i will stand for for justice among our people. that means black, brown, white,

of what it is, showing what north carolina has been built on minority and please understand that. >> let me ask you what happens. let me ask you one thing that happened up there. one young man shot close to death up there. do you know who is responsible for it. >> >> the county is the reason why. no one else had guns, dude. none of us have guns. the largest weapon we have is a cam era phone. that's the largest weapon, camera phone and knowledge. that's the biggest weapon you could probably ever have. 704 and south carolina built on minority, whether banking or money or anything else. if we work to take away the money and put it within our own groups there would be a problem and that whole number two, number three would drop to ten. >> when the police do fire tear gas, what actions are you going

to take? we have seen people throw bottles at police, throw rocks. what happens. >> the bad part is that they've thrown tear gas. you know what else, they've thrown bullet, hatred racism. >> go ahead, sean. i'm paying close attention to everything he is saying. the police have a different version. now either this man is right and this man was carrying a book or the police are right and the man was carrying a gun. so the question is, why can't he wait until all of the evidence is presented before he rushes to judgment? >> the original spark that set this off, the shooting of the man, do you know why that happened? the police that shot the man. what is your version of events. >> from what i understand they felt a threat by this young man. and i say young man because he

is only 43, 45 years young. a young man. ed family. he had kids. >> did he have a gun or a book? which version is true? >> i understand he had both. it seems like, because the way that you guys cross it up, he has a gun. and now we are dealing with, the problem, this is what happens when you bully. >> steve, the question is why is he rushing to judgment before we know the facts in the case? the police said he had a gun and the residents say he had a book. why do people rush to judgment? why can't they wait for all the evidence? >> there's an lot of patience here, sean. this man moved back. this police line pushing back and threatening tear gas and the police have moved forward about 600 yards over the course of an hour. as they slowly try to regain control here. >> steve, let me ask you this.

you know, a lot of these incidents we've seen that professional agitators, people busting from outside communities and know nothing about the community. have you gotten any indication in fact that that's happened and do you know what happened and looks like a reporter down in the white shirt there -- what happened, steve? >> so what we see now, looks like paintball shots fired, exploding on the ground to drive protesters back. and bottles hurled at police. a real back and forth here. the police in this line have shown tremendous patience. they've been pelted with bottles. fireworks shot at them. and they are just holding their ground. >> what was that bang we just heard? >> there was an explosion, that was a flash bang explosion. and some fireworks to try and drive people back. >> okay. who started the fire in the

middle of the street? >> it is having less and less effect as time goes on. >> you know who started the fire that is -- >> your question about the make-up of this crowd, it is interesting because it is kind of sad how this thing has evolved over the last couple of hours. because early on when it was still light out, you saw a lot of parents with children. >> there's tear gas. >> i don't know what that was. >> tear gas. >> now those are designed to intimidate and frighten. and they are very effective. flash bang grenades. >> we saw one go off just now. >> oh, more tear gas as well. a slight breeze out which has made the tear gas less effective. than it ordinarily would be. >> steve, stay right there. if i can, i want to go back to rudy giuliani. on the phone with us.

>> is he gone? is ben carson there? >> i'm here, sean. >> oh, geraldo rivera is with us. he has been in many of these situations himself. darryl parks who represented the trayvon martin family is with us as well. geraldo, you've been in many of these situations. you see what is going on. looks like police are trying to take the remaining protesters. looks like a bottle was just hurled at them. they are using flash bang and tear gas to push crowds back. seems to me like they are showing a lot of restraint, that's my opinion. >> cops are doing a great job in charlotte. you're in the fourth hour of the second day of the rioting there in charlotte. by this time, people on the street, are the pros. vast majority of them i would think would be the people who are professional agitators. people who really have, you know, the ability to flock to these combat zones and to add

their two cents. that happened in furgason and it happened time and time again. happened in baltimore. but the bigger picture in listening to mayor giuliani and you speaking sean and hearing donald trump's suggestion of a national stop and frisk, you know, i think that we have to recognize that too many black men are being killed and questionable circumstances in confrontationes with cops. i think there are a lot of other things going on, obviously. big question of black on black violence and need for more cops in places like chicago. and we get the big picture that they are really, you know, the fact that the african-american inner city community fard so poorly in the last ten years. that's real. but we have to concede. every two days now sean, we have to concede that too many unarmed black men that this guy was -- >> but geraldo, let me gently

disagree with you. as i've been pointing out and as newt gingrich pointed out, as rudy giuliani pointed out, there are 3,000 people shot in chicago this year. 3,660 murders in the city of chicago since obama's been president. geraldo, i defy to you name one of those people that are dead. and i bet you can't. and here is the problem. is you've got a prose president of the united states that rushes to judgment, high profile cases, and he ends up being wrong. creating an expectation within the community of a certain outcome and result and people feel betrayed and disappointed because their leaders told them something by rushing to judgment before facts are presented. >> sean, the story is to clear from your perspective. you see it, you analyze it, you know exactly what the problem is. you have conceded and i heard you speaking with steve harrigan earlier that there are two different reality. at least two.

>> that's my point. that's my point. why don't we wait until the facts? why are we always rushing to judgment? >> you have an emotional volcano going on here. >> sounds like you're justifying this. >> i'm explaining that we are at least two different americas. we are. we have to face this. >> wait a minute. >> people drawn to peaceful protests earlier this evening and steve harrigan mentioned the families with the strollers and so forth. those people were good people. law-abiding people. but they were moved because this man apparently, i don't know if it's true or not, you're right, either there was a gun or a book and we should know. i don't know why they aren't releasing the video of the encounter. they should do as much as they can to give people the facts of the fact will replace over the tough positions. but right few, people are making prezujss. the angry -- >> let me give you an example of the cops out of control and --

>> geraldo, stop for a second. this is the problem. baltimore. people's entire lives were ruined by the looting. people rushed to judging. hands up don't shoot nonsense was never true. but people rushed to judgment repeated it and a whole movement was built out of it. when in fact you have a guy on video robbing a store. black witnesses testifying. again if you let the investigation go forward p, black eye witnesses that brown fought a police officers for his gun. that black eyewitnesss said they charged at officers darren wilson. in that particular case. and by the way, i know that our friend darrell parks have been involved in both of these. he was wrong in the furgason case and wrong in the trayvon martin case, darrell. you rush to judgment also. because we had an eyewitness that put trayvon martin on top of george zimmerman, grounding

and pounding his head into cement and recording of george zimmerman screaming for his life. >> those are all rushes to judgment. and i'm saying that we don't know what happened here, geraldo. i don't know what happened. you don't know what happened. neither do any of the people protesting tonight. >> every time the overwhelming truth of what you are saying begins to sink in, and they say yeah, no, the problem is inner city, the ghetto city war, every time the truth of that stiff seeps in, a black guy is killed by a cop. then right away, overall truth of your feelings, sincere feelings gets blown away and you get this sharp violent disruptive anarchy. >> you've got a problem. you've got a president of the united states of america who is a lawyer for crying out loud,

who rushes to judgment without any evidence, without any facts. there's no prezupresumption of innocence by obama. and there are 3,660 dead people in his home city. >> you can't ignore that chicago just announced they are hiring over a thousand new cops. that's a good thing. i think we have to consider donald trump's suggestion of a national stop and risk. >> stop and frisk helped end the awful contagion of violence in new york city. >> i love you to death, but you know something, and also, then embracing black lives matter, black lives matter on -- >> you can't exaggerate that. >> geraldo, black lives matter has been -- their members have been invited to the oval office with president obama. the same group that have members

clanting, what do we want? dead cops. when do we want them, now. pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon. that's your president and hillary clinton who is running for president that has sought their advice and counsel on criminal justice issues. now rudy giuliani is with us. mr. mayor, you are watching this unfold bb as you said earlier this would not happen if you were mayor of this city. >> no. and i'm very sad to listen to the conversation with geraldo with whom i have a lot of respect. but he is setting forward the rational that closes this problem. maybe because he hasn't had to run a city and save people lives. i ran a city of 2200 people were being killed and 72 % black. i today put more police officers in black communits to save black lives. that resulted in many more confrontations between blacks and police. >> mr. mayor, the --

>> the reason, the reason there are more confrontations between police and blacks in inner cities is because for example, in new york city, 70 to 75% of murders are committed by blacks on other blacks. and the police are there at 75%. because they are trying to protect the lives of innocent black people. so that causes more confrontations with black people. and it causes more ambiguous situations and every once in a while it causes unjustified shooting or incident and when it happened, i put in my lifetime 7 70 police officers in jail. i have no problem putting a police officer in jail when he commits a crime. but i have a problem with the false narrative of the president, two attorney generals and geraldo is giving tonight the problem here is the huge amount of crime that goes on in

black communities. now you have another choice. you can just let them kill themselves. and ignore it. which is what new york city did for 30 years. until i became mayor. they just parparcelled out poli had nothing to do with crime. had i done the same thing there would be 7,000 or 8,000 more dead african-americans today. >> tell me about when a president of the united states, we talk about the bully pulpit of the presidency, and he keeps rushing to judgment, and i've said this before. he is like a four-time loser, wrong on cambridge, wrong on trayvon, wrong in furgason and wrong in baltimore. >> hillary clinton announced the cops were guilty and never apologized. all six have been found not guilty. three by an african-american judge. she found them not guilty and the man you were interviewing or

reporter was interviewing, he has no idea what happened at the shooting. he wasn't there. how does he know what happened? >> but nobody does. i can't say with any sense of clarity or conviction what happened yet. but i know this. >> lying to people never helps them. only the truth can actually set them free. >> how dangerous is it that the president and hillary clinton have embraced? >> it's the reason -- >> with the black lives matter movement. >> it is the reason you are seeing this and you did not see this when ways mayor. you didn't see this when george bush was president. it is because president obama, attorney general holder, the president attorney general, secretary of former secretary of state, hillary clinton, and others have given some credibility to what is a completely false narrative. of course there are occasionally

unjustified police shootings. and when they happen, those police officers should go to jail like the ones i put in jail for 25, 30 or 35 years. but the massive problem is the enormous amount of crime that goes on in city cities. we need to put the police there and let them all kill themselves which would be terrible. inhumane. indecent. >> mr. mayor, if you could stay on the phone with us. we have steve harrigan with us. there was a reporter hurt. we saw someone put into an ambulance. we believe we know who the reporter is. steve is on the ground for puss. steve wlab do you got going on? >> reporter: sean, people out here with microphones and a lot of anger. this man is 28 years old and you say the younger people are more angry? >> yes. i feel that there is a disconnect in different races.

i feel like there's a disconnect in how we raise people in general. but i feel like there's a disconnect in america, period. if you don't give a young person, whether they are black, white, asian, mexican, if you don't give them a reason to be happy to live in america, they are going to be angry. >> go ahead, sean. >> i want you to ask, there are two different versions. what if it turns out that in fact that this gentleman killed, keith lamont scott, in fact did have a gun and it wasn't a book as the narrative is being told. what it f it turns out he is wrong. why does this all rush to judgment? >> this all started as a police shooting. >> whaen do you know about the details of the man who was shot? was he holding a book or was he holding a gun? >> that situation is whether he was holding a book, holding a

gun. >> what if he turns out to be wrong? >> these are training officers to use different mechanisms to take down a criminal, let's use them. but this is not just about what happened in charlotte, north carolina yesterday. we are talking about what happens across the united states every single day. >> this is just the spark about something bigger. it doesn't matter if he add gun or book? >> not in this situation. i'm not here for the bigger cause. if he had a gun, i understand. if he didn't, it makes the situation worse. >> you are 28 years old, articulate young man. police are still firing over and over again. why are you still out here? >> i have a son. i tell my son everyday, my daughter is six in the first grade, respect the police. i respect the police. i was out there yesterday, people calling out their names and all this and that, like i told the police. captains, regular police officers. i don't think that you're a b or

a-hole or any of that. all i ask for is the same way you want us to hold our peers w accountable, hold your colleague accountable for what goes on in society. you know what i'm saying? >> reporter: 28-year-old father of two, he says he's out here tonight because of those children. it's really a mixed crowd right now. a lot of young men and women with masks or shirts over their face as the police try to maintain control as they have for the past three hours in downtown charlotte, sean? >> thanks, steve. apparently we'll be going longer than our usual hour tonight to the midnight hour. our continuing coverage of the second night of unrest in north carolina. joining us now is daryl parks. daryl parks represented the family of trayvon martin and involved with the michael brown

family. we've become very friendly over the years. we've had very strong disagreement. here we go again, i don't know where you stand on this yet, but in reality, you rushed to judgment in two cases where you were wrong. you had an eyewitness in the trayvon martin case that put trayvon on top of george zimmerman, grounding and pounding his head into concrete. we have the scream on tape. and then in the case of ferguson, michael brown robbing a clerk, fighting a cop for a gun and a false narrative of "hands up, don't shoot" emerged. but it all turned out to be false and people rushed to judgment. when the facts came in, and witnesses gave testimony, in both cases, it turned out the original narratives were dead wrong. your side was dead wrong. >> sean, i've got to tell you, i think there's one point we all agree on tonight that's rather clear here in charlotte.

there's a videotape that exists from a body cam that hasn't been produced to the public. i think that part of the response we see that's going on in the streets of charlotte today deals with the fact that there's a video that should be released. >> we have a legal system, and within the legal system there's an investigative process. part of the process is you get all the evidence together, and you heard the police chief definitively say that he is 100% confident that the officer acting because in this case keith lamont scott didn't have a book, they didn't find a book. he said they found a gun, a hollister and there's pictures of a gun and holster. so why are people rushing to judgment? why did you rush to judgment in ferguson? why did you rush to judgment in florida? >> sean, let me say it like this. i think when you have a

situation, when it comes to black lives, why should justice be delayed? we have a country where we want to see justice whether it's terrorism or other things, we produce justice asap. if there's a videotape, they need to show it and it would do a lot to help the public come at ease. until people see what actually happened, we shouldn't have to take the word of the charlotte mayor or the chief of police. >> wait a minute, cops protect our presumption of innocence, don't they? don't they that put their lives on the line every day to save people's lives and keep our community safe and to protect and serve our communities, don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt and the presumption of innocence before you have crowds injuring 16 people? mobs, riots like we saw last night? >> sean, let me say this, i think you make a good point, just like you said, the cops

deserve the benefit of the doubt, what we have in america is black men, for whatever reason, don't get the benefit of the doubt, as well. >> wait, wait, wait, wait a second. you are dead wrong about michael brown. you were wrong about trayvon martin when the evidence was presented by a jury in a court of law, the evidence did not rise to guilty as you wanted and predicted. so you don't know for a fact -- we have 800,000 cops in america. they engage in about 20 million confrontations a year. maybe you have 25 questionable shootings by miss a year. with all due respect, i don't hear you or see you on the streets of chicago asking why 3,660 citizens have been killed since obama has been president. as a matter of fact, i doubt you can name five people that have been killed of the 3,660.

>> sean, i'll say this, i think as an individual person, i do a lot and my firm does a lot to find justice wherever we can. i want to go back to something you said about the president and the attorney general. the one thing we've asked for was a fair investigation. the one thing we believe that once the feds are involved in most cases, you get better transparency. we don't ask the feds to give us or promise a result. we understand the federal laws are more difficult. but a fair investigation in many situations is the proper thing -- >> but you know what? you represented the brown family. we had that guy on tape robbing a store, intimidating a clerk. we had black eyewitnesss identifying him fighting a cop for his gun and black eyewitnesss identifying him charging at darrell wilson. darrell wilson's career is over. do you think that's fair? >> let me say this, i won't comment about that case in

particular. >> you won't comment about that case? you were quick to comment earlier when you didn't have any facts. >> at the end of the day, we start an investigation -- >> at the end of the day, you rushed to judgment, didn't you? >> you had an investigation. you had a thorough investigation that wasn't just based upon what the st. louis officials did. so yes -- >> and at the end of the day -- at the end of the day people's lives were destroyed. people who invested every single penny they had in their businesses, you know, where did they go to rebuild their lives because what, they got looted, they got robbed, their stores were burned. we never arrest the people that do it, even though we've got a lot of them on videotape. let me bring in former lapd detective mark fuhrman. i guess from a law enforcement perspective, mark, you know what

it's like, that police put themselves on their line every day to protect and serve, and in order to give people the presumption of innocence, and in all of these high profile incidents, that presumption of innocence is not granted to them. what does that mean? >> well, sean, when you look at all these shootings, we're talking about when we have a broad stroke of the brush here, we're talking about all these supposed -- you used an example of maybe 25 shootings a year. i want somebody to tell me how many officers have been indicted by the department of justice in the cases they've investigated. i believe one. . and that was clear cut from the beginning. it was an obvious attempt to an officer to kill somebody and plant a weapon. so the system worked, but they assumed all these cases are going to be the same.

and i think it's wrong that we have this false narrative that we put out. we have riots, we have demonstrations, we have people getting hurt, careers destroyed, families destroyed, reputations destroyed, when the facts are in front of us. in michael brown, it was in front of case, it is dead in front of us. the police chief has told us enough, that is absolutely 100%, and that's what he said. the man had a gun, he didn't have a book. the man was told to drop the gun, he did not repeatedly and the officer used deadly force. we wouldn't the facts to get in the way of a really good riot with agitators and this narrative that black lives matter. they swoop in and they think that every one of these cases is going to be bad. they have no confidence in the criminal justice system, and mr. parks knows you cannot le