>> and in the after the show, show. >> what the happy goat rodeo is. pick up the album. goat rodeo sessions featuring yo-yo ma and the full band. we'll be in the after the show show, thank you for joining us this morning. dial us up. >> and the snow. >> brenda: on wall street, the dow is set to close out one of its best months ever, but a very different picture on main street as more companies plan to wipe out jobs. it's the reason the president says he's whipping out the executive order. five this week, more set to come next week. the latest one, a website for businesses to access information about federal programs. is that going to bring jobs back? hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears. let's get right to it. the bulls and bears this week, gary b smith, tobin smith, jonas max ferris along with

penn financial group matt mccall and former advisor to dick gephardt, steve murphy. welcome to everybody. will these executive orders, the white house is whipping out. whip up the jobs? max? >> well, we've had since obama's become president, 20 plans passed aimed at getting economic activity moving here in our country and so far those not happened. so i do not think having five more this week and start ago website for businesses is something has me hiring people and anybody else out there hiring, a lot of unknowns out there right now. we don't know which plan or initiative is going to come next and how it's going to help us, so that leaves companies that could potentially being hiring to sit on their hands and wait for the unknown to go away. at the same time as a consumer, the unknowns are keeping me from spending. we had whirlpool layoff 5,000 people and when it's unknowns, people are not buying, people

are laid off and it's not good for the economy. >> well, steve, you like these orders? >> yeah, i don't see anything wrong with the orders whatsoever. and secondly, there's always uncertainty. thirdly, the private sector is doing a decent job of creating jobs right now. and almost to the tune of 100,000 a month. it's being off set by the layoffs in the public sector, which is exactly what most people on in panel want to see. and i think laying off teachers is a dumb idea. they help create the work force of tomorrow and that's exactly going on tomorrow. whirlpool, yeah, absolutely. the lower middle class can't buy anything, they're underwater, under mortgage through no-fault of their own entirely because of wall street's irresponsibility. >> are you sure that the private sector is actually hiring enough people? tobin, you're a small business owner. are these websites and these executive orders convincing you to hire more people? >> well, i'm not going to

micronitpick, but i am going to say this, the micromanagement thing, the thing that gets me. somehow i get the feeling that the administration and their whole business strategy, if we pulled up levers and do some cool things, that all of a sudden, somebody's going to wake up and change our attitude when in fact, the tinkering and the micromanagement and the idea that you could actual create a sustainable economic environment. you know it hasn't worked for three years, it's get out of our way, we'll do just fine and i'm hiring people now and not on anything based on we're building a business and ill get out of my way. >> jonas. >> i don't think that they want the government out of their way, they're going to the government to protect them from morn competitors so that's asking the government to help you. i can't think of an industry-- >> that's getting out of their way, helping them. >> no, they wouldn't the government to put tariffs on foreign people. lg or whom ever, dumping

washing machines here and maytag has benefitted from the government surplus when you get credits for buying energy efficient. >> how does it work? >> in the long run-- >> and get laid off, jonas. >> saying that maytag would have dumped these people two years ago. are you borrowing from future prosperity. >> sure, because you're seeing a slowdown in maytag sales, and a home buying credit and allowing them to buy homes and put stuff in it like a dishwasher. >> what's the point. >> they've smoothed out the business cycle. take from future prosperity to limit the depths of recession. >> that's micromanagement. >> and denying that maytag doesn't want it. >> they want it. >> and well, gary b. all of these executive orders, there's been mortgage refinancing, there's hiring veterans, there's the student

loans, there's this new website. all of this, do you think it's helping or hurting the economy? >> brenda, i think it's hurting the economy and here is why. i'll give you an example. toby said they didn't want to nitpick and did come back with the big picture and i want to nitpick, first of all, the two executive orders, one was for a website, you know, we're-- the country is begging for leadership, the kind of leadership that we had under ronald reagan and even under bill clinton, and yet, we're going to create a website. steve said he didn't mind. here is the problem, the government takes over the things, well, they already have a website that they were using monster.com, which knows how to do this stuff, to manage this, to look for jobs, the government decided they could do it better, it's called, usa jobs. the thing is trash, it hasn't been online and pass words haven't been updated, it's been a complete disaster like usual, the government

programs, the other one is like something out of headline you'd he see in the theion ooni we're going to speed up from the lab to marketplace, are you making this up. what kind of program is that, it sounds like a billboard for nothing. so the problem sbrenda, we're looking for leadership and companies and individuals out there, as toby pointed out. >> want the government to lay a clear foundation and get out of the way and instead they're micromanaging them and doing stupid stuff. >> well, steve, this is a tool of the president and he is using it. he's not saying it's the only way he wanted congress to pass this jobs bill and didn't. >> jonas, when businesses are getting help from the boston, they love the micromanagement. how about we simply get rid of every single corporate tax break, other than operating expenses and making charitable

contributions and half the tax code, the corporate tax code is it an attempt to stimulate one kind or another of economic behavior. and get rid of all of that. and how about-- >> okay, okay, hold on. i want to stick to cheese executive orders, because, really, that has been the main thing coming out of the president's office of late. but that's is sort of-- >> because he can't pass legislation. >>, but that's all. >> can't pass legislation without republican help. >> or democrats, the senate, that's been the problem. >> yeah, and the idea, listen, he's trying, the administration is trying, you know, in a very difficult time and i'll certainly give them points for that, but at the bigger picture, if they can't pass laws through the republicans then if you're going to waste your time, put all of your time into something so fringe, nonconsequential and trump it up like you're a job creator. >> brenda: go ahead, jonas. >> when you're talking about

capping student loan interest, i'm telling it's a good long-term plan. >> brenda: we're going to get to that. >> some of these things have major impacts if you're not paying back as much interest, or payments as a 25-year-old you're going it buy more junk, a whirlpool product and could in the short run stimulate the economy. >> brenda: wait, we will get to that in just a minute. so, hold our debate on that. but, there is the mortgage refinancing, matt? >> well, yeah, everything here is short-term. the problem is they're short-term stimulus. i'm not going to hire on the short-term stimulus. we need a plan to get the economy moving to hire for the long-term. >> and someone get him a razor. >> brenda: that's got to be the last word and toby, you always get it. all right. and how is this? and this? proving wall street capitalists are pre-market

hipocrits? neil's gang tells you how at the bottom of the hour. first, college tuitions soaring at twice the pace of inflation, don't blame the schools, blame the student loan bailout? or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's notust good for business. it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities. that's why we extended $7.8 billion to small businesses across the country so far this year. because the more we help them, the more we help make opportunity possible. hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too.

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casey mears, driver of the number thirteen geico toyota camry. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. >> good morning, a fox news alert. live from america's news headquarters. i'm jamie colby. a report that a bomber has skilled at least 13 american troops and this is new video from kabul. where officials say a van packed with explosives rammed in an n.a.t.o. convoy. and the taliban is claiming responsibility and the attack the deadliest in three separate incidents today by afghan insurgents and back at home. the calendar is saying one thing, the sky near. 25 million people are under a storm watch this holiday weekend. a massive winter storm up the east coast and could bring up to a foot of snow, it's a rare

october nor'easter and 10 states and warning of potential outages and if you see wintery pictures in aur area, send them to you report.com. and back to bulls and bears here on fox. >> college tuition spiking, up over 8% alone this year, that's more than twice the rate of inflation. and now, d.c.'s trying to run the rescue with another student loan bailout. gary b. you say that's exactly why college costs are out of control? >> exactly. brenda. we've seen this scenario replaced college education costs with housing. why did housing spike up? because it was basically subsidized at low rates. and demand exceeded supply. we're seeing the same thing with college tuition. why is it going up? because it's subsidized by the

government. the government thinks that college education is a great idea and for some, it is a great idea. but, that's the reason that it goes up. why do professors and people build the grand facilities? because they have more money than they can spend because the kids come in with all of this cheap money. that's why they're going to keep going up as long as we come up with idiotic programs like the one the president just announced. >> brenda: well, steve, long-term though, you can't really point to the government? >> no, well, no, not at all. of course. to have cause and effect. scientist methods. the cause has to occur before the effect. and it's been going on now for decades and it has been, gary is partially right and you have to decide whether it's a good thing or a bad thing for more and more, a higher percentage of american high school graduates to go to college. i wouldn't mess with this system at all. it's one part of the american economy that actually works, our college and university system is the envy of the world, keep it going exactly

like it is. >> brenda: well, matt, states will charge more because they can. there's more supply than there is demand, basically. i mean, there's more demand than there is supply. >> exactly. and the last year, the prices at the public universities went up 8.3% and the private university only went up 4.5, because like you said, the public university is getting away with it and also, keep in mind, the reason that these prices are going up is because they're-- >> they're also break. >> exactly, the states have put themselves in trouble by spending too much if i have lusly and now they are he' getting it back by charging, you know, basically you and i going to college. and back in 1970, go to uc berkley and costs $700 and it's now 15,000. and imagine it costs, $70 back then and now 150. they're going up way too high and it's the-- >> you agree, jonas, it's a victim of government cutbacks? >> i don't know, the government-- i won't say that, you sort of

half right and sort of not half right right. took a little to stink? >> the school prices are going up because the government is shrinking and the state and federal government, amount they're going to the schools is is going down. now, longer term, they have gone up fast because like the housing thing, there is too much money available to everybody to go to any kind of school of any quality and i will say the bigger problem is not the quality schools, that states run. it's before profit. nongovernment schools financed almost exclusively by the student loan program and that's the scandal here and where you get the worthless agree and coming out with-- >>, but the government is supporting that student loan program and then they forget the ponzi scheme. >> you have to have your facts straight. number one they graduate a higher percentage of people and number two on a unit per basis about 75% less so you're full of water.

however, the biggest issue here, is that these governments schools have become the pinata and because the property taxes have come down and because the houses have calm down and trying to plug the whole, when you're able to suck money out of the federal government. it's not strange math. >> so we've got a shrinking government making the tuitions, tuitions are not up because more and more student loans are-- >> i feel like when the governments were growing. >> yeah, i mean. >> it's not a cause and effect with what you're saying. >> yeah, if it's, it's 100% correlated to the fact that they can charge more because it's a variable cost issue. as long as they give me a loan i'm going to pay. >> why wouldn't private school tuitions jump on the exact amount with that logic, that's not the case. they couldn't charge 8% more-- >> i'm sorry, a little more, you know, hip to go from either university of pennsylvania than to devie university.

it's a mostly night school, online type of state and the state universities, traditional colleges have a captive audience and they have the federal government to pay for it. it's a great opportunity to raise. >> matt? >> i have to agree and the biggest thing we're missing, too, the government in supporting student alan program at the same time we want to come out and forgive the student loans, it's like a ponzi scheme. you don't have to pay it back and the government is spending more money. >> you don't have to pay it back after 20 years. all right. thanks, guys. >> they keep billing me. >> brenda: occupy wall street protesters, endorse a global robin hood tax enforced by a global government. oh, are they leading you gos to a global disaster? we report, you decide. [ courier ] the amazing story of whether bovine heart tissue

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>> coming up now. anti-wall street protesters are pushing for a global robin are pushing for a global robin hood tax and winter comin look, every day we're using more and more energy. the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from? ♪ that's why right here, in australia, chevron is building one of the biggest natural gas projects in the world. enough power for a city the size of singapore for 50 years. what's it going to do to the planet? natural gas is the cleanest conventional fuel there is. we've got to be smart about this. it's a smart way to go. ♪

>> occupy wall street protests going global. now, teaming up with a group demanding a robin hood global tax on investors enforced by a global government. toby, you say this is a recipe for a real global melttown? >> yes, we're going to do is two things. number one, great. we have the governments like greece that are going to be able now to go to a global pot and take money from that. even worse the actual-- if they lived in the real world if you put the transaction tax on it hurtsen mid and small sized people and they're less competitive and who do they go to in the big

guys and they create less jobs and it thought these guys were road testing taking away from the big guy and creating more jobs. right? this is how upside down their logic is. >> steve? >> hey, i think a global, not a global, an oecd tax, the more developed countries, a really small tax on financial investments that goes into either microeconomic-- excuse me microloans or into correct aid to schools or hire teachers in the third world, yeah. john paul ii is right the hems sphere needs to do-- >> go ahead, i know you're waiting-- >> and press, gary. >> the whole thing is almost too idiotic to comment on and yet, i will. by taxes-- people, this occupy wall street seem to think that investors in wall street are like the guy on monopoly board that lives in the newport

mansion and walks around with money, you know, and investing is the life blood of our economy, and keeps companies like google and apple to start off. and by giving it to some, you know, global pot, it's rife for corruption. and we have it on global government. with the u.n., which is known for fraud and waste, oil for money scandal, 10 billion. third, we give it to a government by definition weeks' giving it to an inefficient organization and as steve pointed out, we've been finding, position, in our countries, to be the most efficient. the war on poverty almost 50 years and the poverty rate now is higher than it was when the war first started and this is a dumb idea across the board. >> you don't mind a tax-- >> and take out the global government. i don't know who in that group is saying the idea representing all of the people, but i won't say, the broadly speaking i think that the government has to look for revenue enhancements that are

destructive to the economy and a trading tax, i believe, of all the kinds of taxes you could add in a semi weak economy and the least damaged bu the high frequency trade department of goldman sachs. and they don't care-- >> hold on. wait a minute, af he got to get matt in here. now what? this is called actually the tobin tax. shut up. >> and you asked quote, unquote, big guys and it's trickle down and everybody will be invested in the stock market and pensions and 401(k) and hurting the jobs and the big issue the last three years has been what, big government and this is making government bigger. >> brenda: sorry, we've got to go and thank you to steve for joining us, did you miss out on this month's huge market surge? well, don't worry, how the blistering cold weather blowing across america is

about to heats up one stock and your profit. ♪

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♪ >> predictions, toby, you're up. >> it's cold. that means natural goes and it's a petroleum company. >> brenda: matt, bull or bear. >> i like the industry, but there are better plays out there. >> brenda: gary b. >> the greek bailout means one thing. inflation is on the rise and i like new month mining, double in five years. >> brenda: jonas bull or bear. >> doubled in 15 years. >> brenda: and jonas, what do you like? >> 7 billion people are going to be in this world. on monday, they say, that's what they say, who has more customers than any business in the world? coca-cola. >> brenda: toby, bull or bear. >> i'm a bear and not going to double. >> brenda: you like pepsi. matt. >> numbers came out this week and people are spending more than saving less. i