go until 2:00 p.m. let's get another check on your money. stocks high every as earnings season continues to gain steam. talk about one of those earnings seasons underway, tesla reporting after the closing bell today. bank of america saying they are a little skeptical on the growth prospects but they see opportunities like robo-taxi and model two in the coming months. that alone might be able to support the stock. this is the moment for tesla many analysts have said. jackie: robo-taxi incorporates a.i. so musk is definitely going into that direction. luke made an interesting point whether he will do it separately or incorporate it, that remains to be seen but they're doing it. brian: luke says it is on his do not buy list. we'll see if charles agrees with that. taylor: we'll find out. now "making money" with charles payne. charles: i will tell you later about that. this is "making money." rebound continues last couple days pretty good but fear continues to linger as well.

investors hope flashy and sexy can lead the way. today's rally is courtesy of slow and unsexy. drivers ahead of earnings right now, the stock look it came out after crash derby, it will maybe take a miracle for musk to turn it around but he has done it before. we'll let you know what you need to know before the closing bell. from residential to commerical the real estate crisis continues. whether 81,000 is too much to expect to change their job. all that and so much more on "making money". ♪. charles: remember how exciting it was at the beginning of the year when the market came out the gate, it was galloping ahead, galloping ahead. as you can see now 2024 is little bit ho-hum. this is the bottom of the range and this is the top of the range. don't get me wrong, 5% is okay. going back to 1950 what was an amazing start to the year is

becoming just so ho-hum for now. here is what is interesting about today's session. we got a sigh of relief from stronger financial results. we said wait for earnings but from older established companies. how old? dan that here is 40 years old. pulte homes, 70 years old, general motors 115 years old. ge, 132 years old. kimberly clark 151 years old? who needs classy. they beat on revenue and earnings. this is companies that you don't even know what they do or the technology think sell. i do want to point out most of the ol' school beats are seeing problems at the top line. so i pulled out kimberly clark. let's call it unchanged, down a little bit on the top line but here's where you get management. you've pot to learn at some point to be a long-term investor it is all about management. look what they do with operating margins. personal care up 123%, consumer

tissue up 21ness,kc professional 20%. that is how you work a company. that is why the stocks are a lot higher. that is how you stay in business for 150 years. meanwhile megacap stocks, we know coming into this year and this quarter everyone is expecting big things from them this a handful. amazon, google, meta, microsoft, nvidia. this is what the street is looking for. everyone else we're looking for them to be down. it is on big tech to see if they can pull this through. obviously it would have be some great guidance along with that but meantime more and more folks, more and more firms are starting to step away ubs downgraded the segment. they call it the big six but remained overweight on rest of tech plus. that is interesting to underscore. there is more to the market, even to technology than those big megacap names.

what have we seen from the megacap stocks? nvidia is still up 54%, but for the month every single one getting crushed. 9%, alphabet 3%, mag-7 overall down 9% coming into the day. so the year has been phenomenal, the month has been shaky and we'll see where we go from here. we're lucky enough to be starting off with data trek research cofounder nicholas collison. nicholas, your thoughts on this sort of last hurrah, if you will for these names? because right now the street is looking for them to do extraordinarily well. this is the first quarter of the mag-7 but as the year goes on, actually looking for the rest of the market to outperform. is this it? is this the peak here for these mag-7 names? >> i think from this point on they will not be the superstars they were. that's pretty clear. you have the great comps for q1 as you showed, that is great to see. that is yesterday's news. the market already knows that. for now the rally has to spread out. we're seeing fundamentally and what you showed from the

earnings beats from the old companies and mid-cycle market usually work. you get industrials outperforming, health care outperforming, financials outperforming that is the classic mid-cycle ingredients happening. charles: someone may look at the market only three sectors were down the rest up, ironically the inverse what we saw over the last year or so. >> that's absolutely right and it is great to see the rally spreading out involving more groups. charles: i found out today you were a auto analyst. >> yeah. charles: first boston and then steve cohen. >> yeah. charles: first general motors, say general motors versus tesla, taking gm's number today, how do you feel some of these traditional motor companies, automobile manufacturers pushed back on mandate foisted upon them making evs now? i feel like since they have done that their stocks have come to life a little bit. >> absolutely, they're still tied to the old internal combustion engine technology.

they're very good at it. people like those products. taking heat off producing a lot of electric vehicles, improve profit margins, to get a long runaway to eye chief eventually might be ev future. we don't know. charles: interesting to make something the customer wants. >> recipe for success. charles: big pickup truck with fat margins. can we make those for a couple more years, maybe? tesla, listen all kind of speculation from the robo cab to taxi thing, whatever, how do you see it playing out? musk always goes to hi own beat we know that but he has to be feeling the heat at this point? >> absolutely. tesla is a tech company gets cash flow from the auto company. the stock prices on weakest link, the weakest link is e-investment sales and margins. the stock imploded the past six months. it is just not making the same amount of money.

they may have great ideas for the future but in order to get there they need cash from the evs but it is disappearing. >> before we go, something caught my eye, friday, fear index popped over 20. really, really high, right, but it closed under 20 that day, closed under 20 and you said that was a red flag for you. i actually thought it was good it was able to come back so quickly but you're saying no? >> i would like the vix close over 20 a day or two to signal a bottom. that is what we happened during october during the low, but we haven't gotten it. we want to hold, hold below 20 to confirm this rally. charles: before i let you go, how do you feel about the market overall? >> feel good overall. people were worried about march being a top. i don't think so. rally through year-end. charles: appreciate you, thank you. folks, i was reading a piece in ft last night. it is interesting, because it talked about the u.s. being

overestimate overestimate layed, i said, bam, he did it again. bianco research jim bianco. here is the line that made me think of you. first economists dialed forecast back to a soft landing and now they're talking about, they're all talking about no landing. golly, jim was talking about no landing when no one, you were the only person on no landing island and now it is getting crowded. it is time to move to a different landing? >> you know, we might be getting there because no landing island, you know, which basically means the economy grows to potential if not more also comes with stickier inflation island too. you will not get inflation to do what economists call that last mile and go to 2%. so that stickier inflation is kind of the young of the yang of the economy is doing well. everybody seems moving in that direction. i don't think we're all the way

there yet you would almost say from a contrarian standpoint to go the other way. but to put it in a baseball metaphor we're probably in the 7th inning. the game is getting long in the tooth but it is not quite yet over. charles: bank of america had a survey of credit investors, what caught my eye a greater percentage expect inflation to surprise to the upside versus those that inflation will surprise to the downside. for a long time all this was supposed to be temporary, housing would be a lagging thing and rents would be lagging and we're way off script. so again it feels like most strategists have had it wrong. consequencely everyone is going back to the drawing board? >> yeah, they have. you know, i'm not surprised by that survey result and similar ones like it because what the inflation numbers have done for the last three or four months is constantly beat on the upside, is constantly surprise. they're not surprising with eye-popping numbers but they are

trending higher and they are holding, at least on cpi in that 3%, 3 1/2% range, just way above the fed's target. and i'm not surprised that everybody is starting to move that way because that's what's been happening. like i said before, probably in the 7th inning of this move right now. we're not quite there yet but we're getting there. charles: all right. so wall street somewhat disappointed a little bit about these rate cuts. i think that played a role in some recent weakness but i'm reading about a black swan hedge fund manager that fed rate cuts could signal a market crash. listen, he is a black swan manager, he is talking his book but there is also this, there have been pivots in time associated with market crashes beginning with the great financial crisis and some of these swoons are absolutely mind-boggling. 50% for the great financial crisis. 38% for.com. 17% for the double-dip recession. so on average a decline of 28%. so, how does the fed eventually

cut in a way that doesn't jar the market or the economy? >> oh, that's a good question, because that's been as your table shows, that's been the history. at this point we've gone almost a year without a cut, so when does the fed cut? bluntly they panic in when the economy is going over the side, trying to stop it by stimulating it. they usually can't. we have a recession and stock market responds negatively to it. that is the challenge they have to the gatt to face right now. or maybe we start to think about whenever that cut comes, is it coming because the fed sees real weakness and real problems in the economy as opposed to what we were talking about a few months ago was the fed declaring victory, getting on the back of the convertible waving to the crowd, we did it, we got rid of inflation? it might be the other side around. i want to use a expletive, here we go with the downturn in the economy. but that's been their history. charles: there will be quite a

few expletives for sure. jim, thank you so much, my friend, appreciate it. great stuff. >> thank you. charles: folks, "unbreakable investor" 24 hours from now, the quiz show edition. the town hall, believe it or not not too late. people were calling me, yes, come. go to eventbrite.com. search charles payne to get your free ticket. i can tell you right now it will be absolutely amazing. meanwhile consumers, they continue to struggle in all areas except maybe one. you know the new american. we're not so ugly anymore. i will explain with nancy lazard to break it all down after this. ♪.

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♪. >> usa is in debt, everybody is in debt. why don't we just print more money? hold on, because i've heard of the whole inflation will go up topic. well, just, don't. just don't make it go up. just get the printers going. let's print some more money, like, aren't we the ones printing money? charles: let's bring in piper

sandler chief global economist nancy lazard. you know, nancy, i saw this last night. i wish i could say it was really tongue in cheek, right? it's not. you can understand why young folks the way they do, we've been told there is this thing called modern monetary theory. you can almost argue we've been trying it more recently with the $1.9 trillion, that i don't think we necessarily needed but you can argue helped spike inflation. she said the inflation part, make it go away as well. this is the dilemma here in, we're a country spending money, spending money, at the same time a lot of americans can't teal with the crushing pressure of nation. where do we go from here? >> i would call it a bifurcated economy. you have those benefiting from higher interest rates. those who are suffering from higher interest rates. those who can pay for the higher prices, and those who are

getting this really squeezed. we're calling this a bifurcated economy with high income and businesses doing well, because they have interest income, because they benefit from easier financial conditions, rally growing the stock market, money doled out from the chips act, supporting big companies, yet at the same time, lower income consumers squeezed by the high-priced levels and egregiously high consumer installment debt and wage gains are moderating as employment in some of the retail sectors in particular are starting to slow significantly. so we have a very unusual economic backdrop. it is not normal to have this kind of bifurcation. we've seen it only really two times in history, the late '70s, '78, '79 and 2006 and 2007. the economy kept chugging along because you had incremental support for the economy in both cases but at the end of the day interest rate structure had to

go higher for longer. eventually you did have a recession. that is how you eventually crushed excesses and inflation. charles: right. that proves to be sort of a double-whammy for those at the bottom. they you have iser throughout the inflationary period and certainly suffered through the recessionary period. we got the flash cpi number out. to me it was something after head-scratcher, in part because it put pushes back against the manufacturing led economy. street was looking for increase of 52. service 50.9 from 52. that was the estimate there. now i did see your report on the manufacturing renaissance on steroids. i agree the data is there, the spending is there but i don't necessarily see some of the other things like the consistency or the jobs coming from this? >> well, even within manufacturing you are starting to see a bifurcation. it is the renaissance that is on steroids, i.e., construction of all these factories, and for the tech industry but if you look at

manufacturing ex-tech, that is touched by the tech sector actually it is struggling and it is struggling in part because one, it is touched by the consumer. the consumer durables side of the economy where you're seeing incremental weakness on the furniture side, stagnant auto seas, for example, and so, even within manufacturing it is very bifurcated. i use the word steroids on purpose. it is not healthy and the question is how sustainable is this surge we've seen in the construction of factories which has corresponded with a surge in prices to build those factories. you are starting to see some companies go, hmmm, cost of building these is much higher than i thought and maybe i'm not going to build as much. charles: you know i went to the break teasing about the ugly american. i was referring to the fact that for a long time we were known for not traveling, not getting to know the rest of the world but that is changing obviously. when you look at consumer

behavior, restaurants are big, revenge spending but look at record number of people saying they will travel abroad for vacation, look at current spike in tsa data, feels like one area will continue to move higher. that is this travel boom? >> i agree with that particularly international where the dollar is very strong, strongest for example, relative to the yen in 30 years. that is also pretty attractive to travel to europe and the uk. the strength of the dollar is definitely supporting that. second, again i hate to overuse this word, but it is bifurcated. within the airline industry, for example, you have those being supported by a pickup in business travel, those that will benefit from the international travel and those that are more domestic oriented where you're seeing some of the airlines struggle. this is really being driven by the middle to upper income consumer taking advantage of a strong, of a strong dollar and

the fact that they still do have income and they don't have a lot of debt and they can indeed afford to take these trips. charles: i have got less than 30 seconds. i have got less than 30 seconds but i have got to get your thoughts where we are with respect to the fed and landing. you you were sort of against the crowd the last time we spoke which was a few months ago. it feels like you were right and the crowd was wrong? >> well we still have a recession forecast that we think the odds are 53%, just a little over a coin toss. it is down where we were say last summer. i think a lot of the stimulus from the chips act, ira, for example, are supporting that. i'm not convinced the fed should be preempted and ease however because inflation is sticky as you highlighted in your last segment. i totally agree with that. you need to get a clear increase in the unemployment rate, in order to get a stage of inflation. we think we need a recession otherwise it will be sticky because you have a big group of

people, big group of companies continue to spend, continue to bid up these prices. so i think it is a fine line. i worry more about sticky inflation than i do worry about a recession. charles: i really love the precision there, 53% chance. nancy you are one of the best. thank you so much. talk to you again soon. >> thanks. charles: mortgage rates now have begun to spike yet again. home prices we know are near record lies. so what gives? we'll ask housing expert amy nixon about the american dream. ♪. [alarm beeping] amelia, turn off alarm. amelia, weather. 70 degrees and sunny today. amelia, unlock the door. i'm afraid i can't do that, jen. why not? did you forget something? my protein shake.

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♪. charles: all right, folks, we know there's a dilemma happening in the housing market, residential market and, it might be getting worse. want to go to lydia hu with the details. >> reporter: charles, it is springtime. it is great time to check the neighborhood open house, right? also a good time to check what is happening in the residential real estate market. we saw new home sales for march coming in better than expected. higher than 690,000 homes, blowing pass that expectation of 670,000 but when we take a closer look, look what is happening in the sales of existing homes, they're kind of paralyzed here. they're actually even declining for the month. and there's a reason why.

we have to take a look at mortgage rates what is happening in that arena, because the effective mortgage rate now higher by about three points than than the prior mortgage rates. what that means someone sitting in a beautiful home right now, they might turn a profit if they sold to a very hungry buyer but they have the problem where to live next, paying for that higher mortgage interest rate, means their profit might be eaten away over time. just not very appealing for these people in those homes right now. charles? charles: quite a dilemma. thank you very much, lydia. certainly a problem, something my next guest actually has been concerned about for some time. bring in dfw macro housing analyst, amy nixon. amy, on february 1st, the 30-year mortgage dipped to under 7%. felt like okay, coast is clear, we're coming back. here we are marching back towards 8%. what does it mean for housing? >> you know, charles, there is actually, sort of a theory

circulating in the industry now these higher rates are actually exacerbating shelter inflation and it sounds a little wacky at first but if you think about it, it's causing like you said there is a three point spread, causing existing homeowners to not sell. supply is being crunched. buying demand is being crunched because people who perhaps be buying at a 3, 4% rate are not buying at a 7% rate. what does that mean? shelter demand is always there. shelter demand moved from buying to renting. we have a cohort of six figure earning renters who would be buyers coming to the rental market. that is keeping rental inflation sticky. that is part of why we are seeing the sticky component to shelter in the cpi inflation numbers. charles: that is interesting, because those numbers were supposed to come down months

ago, according to the experts. a year ago, give it three months, four months, the government data is always lagging. you're right, it has been a year the needle hasn't budged. you have to worry about how long that is sustainable and do we want a country of just renters. i spoke to nancy lazard, using bifurcation three or four times. i will buy it now. nobody is building homes under 300,000. but one million dollar plus homes are flying off the shelves. is that a tale of two different worlds we live in right now. >> it is a tale of two different markets. we have record asset inflation right now in this country and what that means, people who have money, have a lot of money. we've got still stocks, cryptos everything near all-time highs, even with the recent pullback. we're seeing new york just set a record, 60 something percent of homes sold in q1 were sold all cash and essentially this market is moving but it's moving for people who have money and that leaves out the young people and the first-time homebuyers who

have income but not money. so they, they rely on borrowing. charles: real quick, you always point this out, that some of these places have overbuilt. austin you talk about a lot. i saw some stuff with florida. these asking prices are coming down huge. is the answer that if you do want to get a house you may have to move to a state you didn't think about living in before? >> i think for young people you need to think about locating to places where the median home is somewhat in the relative range of the median income and where we are still building. where there is new construction they're still buying down rates. there is product that's being priced lower. they're building smaller, quote more affordable homes that will probably be the best option for young people right now, unfortunately. charles: not just residential, amy. meanwhile commercial real estate, that continues to grapple with its on set of issues. let's go back to lydia hu.

>> reporter: there is a headline caught our attention. commercial real estate foreclosures soared to level not seen in nearly a decade. let me show you exactly what we're talking about. recently talking about 625 commercial foreclosures. that is level we haven't seen since roughly 2015. there are signs maybe the worst could be over. we could talk about that. check this out from "the wall street journal." blackstone's beleaguered real estate fund stems the exodus. the needle moved a little bit, able to fulfill all investor re deem shun requests the first time since 2022 but we have to look at fund-raising that has not returned to the previous robust levels. check out here, we see a tiny step up here most recently. we're not coming anywhere close we were before. that speaks to the trepidation in the real estate commercial market. charles. charles: lydia, thank you very much. i want to go back to dfw macro

housing analyst aim any six -- amy nixon. let's talk about the mounting foreclosures. as they are mounting they become worrisome. what are your thoughts? >> they're still low on a relative basis to history but yes, they are mounting. like i said this higher rate environment is causing problems in credit markets. it's causing problems in industries that are reliant on credit so we're seeing while we have a strong service economy, there is still a lot of inflation in several areas we're seeing contraction in the construction and building industry. so i think this is, feels like right now it is a race against the wire to how soon are we going to cut-rates? will it be soon enough to save lot of people that have the floating rate debt, that need to refinance it, sooner than later. if we cut rates in the nick of time, maybe we come out of this okay. if not, i think we'll see more turmoil ahead in that industry.

charles: that turmoil i guess would include these regional banks? >> yes. charles: you know i saw, i saw where 185 square foot building in chicago was sold for 2.5 million. in 2013 it was bought for 22 million. talking about a 90% haircut. i don't know anything about commercial real estate, i would love to own the building on the screen right now for 2.5 million. i guess there are opportunities out there, right? >> yeah, i mean, there are, there have been opportunities in commercial for the last two years and again i think once gone it is kind of everybody is sort of holding their breath, waiting to see what happens with the interest rates. the longer that rates are high, higher odds we'll see cracks in this sector and see possible problems with regional banks and with bank failures but again, i think at the end of the day the fed will protect the banks. they showed us that in 2008. they showed us that in 2021 when

they stepped in with this btfp program. they will not let things fall -- they will not stand by and let things fall apart. while it could have severe impacts on the economy, around we could go into a recession i don't think it will be a situation where it is a complete collapse of everything but time will tell. charles: by the way the demand for that program is still going through the roof. 30 seconds, i want to circle back through residential, homebuilders, pulte posted a strong number. they're in a catbird seat, no one selling existing home, they have pricing power. it feels like they have all the leverage. do you think the homebuilders continue to see pretty good stock gains? >> i'm not sure, charles. you know why? in march we actually posted dismal construction numbers. housing starts dropped 15% month over month. that again is a reflection of the costly credit. i think builders are starting to got a little bit concerned in this higher for longer rate

market about how much product they're going to be able to move. so that again is crunching supply, circling back to that original thesis i said, that perhaps we're at a point where these higher rates are actually exacerbating shelter inflation which is kind of a catch 22. charles: it is. great stuff, amy. great stuff, talk to you again real soon. >> thank you. charles: folks in just a couple hours or less, tesla will report after the bell. when i tell you what the stock has done over the last four quarters, you may be glad you have not owned it. the question though is, could it be oversold here? could musk pull a rabbit? shah gilani is next. ♪.

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later down 10%, 13%, 10%, that is over a year of getting crushed every time they reported. management missed the street by the way recently in back-to-back quarters. that is not what you ever want to see. you don't want to see street miss both times, last two times. here is what is kind of worrisome, earnings estimates, 90 days ago, you had 78. now it is 51. earnings come down a lot. my next guest is buying dips in the market, actually tesla has a different way of making money. bring in manward press chief investment strategist shah gilani. let me pull a chart up here on tesla. before we go to that, let me start macro here. i have to get your thought the on the market overall, the big picture, because bond yields have been steering the market, right. bond yields up, market down, i want to see where you see reemerge of bond vigilantes. that means it could get worse

then? >> i think so, charles. we see pushback as far as the treasury auctions go. we have three big auctions this week, we have a two-year, five and a seven. couple weeks ago 10-year auction went tear bring, the investors were not buying bonds. bond vigilantes think this is no reason to buy bonds here we'll get longer dated premium on bonds. we could see the 10-year get to 5% that would be scary for the stock market. so far we're not there yet. we see a little reprieve as far as the 10-year. we're in the territory, we've broken out, things could get worse before they get better. charles: we have earnings season so far, so, so, not living up to the hype. rate cuts have diminished. leadership of the mag-7 is fading. if you're bullish on the market where do you focus? >> buying the dips. i don't think we've seen a significant enough dip. we did buy some nvidia on this

dip of some stocks we want to get into where we accumulate positions, even if we go lower, we'll add to the nvidia position which is a new position for us. i don't think we're done with the dip. i don't think we're done seeing yields go higher f we get to 5% on the 10-year go higher, i think the market will see a 10% correction. today is a reprieve, maybe a dead-cat bounce. big, this week, charles, as you well know. if these big tech names don't do well the market is just going to turn around here because investors are hanging their hats on the big tech, a.i. stories, if companies don't say they're doing well and picking up space as far as a.i. then the market will turn tail. charles: let's go now to tesla and making money on put spreads. i have a three-year chart of the stock though. we can see the highs are way back in 2022. recently a major gap down. you have to start to believe maybe that low of 2023 is a

place we can go. how do put spreads work for the audience. they would love to make money on this sort of thing? >> put spreads basically on tesla, for example, you buy something, whether it is in the money or out of the money. i like out of the money put spreads. if tesla is trading for example, at 160, we'll buy it at the 155 put spread. that is buying 155 strike price put, selling the 150 strike price put. you by that spread as a spread. you pay one price for it. if tesla trades down below 150, the 155 put you bought is deep in the money. even if the 150 put goes into the money, trades down to 125 you made the five dollar spread and and depending what you paid for that spread, we generally don't pay generally half the value of spread. we took two spreads off with triple digit gains. we continue to put spreads on

tesla if it continues to go down. charles: before i let you go, one stock i need update. applied digital corp. you mentioned it in december. i'm curious if you're still long? >> we're long fortunately. we had a stop. so we're sitting on a loss there. this is one we'll have to sit out. we're considering picking up more at lower levels, but with the market as shaky as it is i am not sure i want to go back to buy a stock without a decent profit margin, doesn't make money right now. that was kind of buy the dip, this thing might do a lot better if the market does better. right now we're standing pat on that. charles: we covered so many grand slams from you, when one occasionally goes astray, we like to get an update. thanks a lot, shaw, appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: the percentage of americans having at least one child in their 30s as absolutely plummeted. this is happening all around the world.

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the key to being rich is knowing what counts. charles: all right, folks, let's talk about the retirement crisis because it's getting some relief, you know, we heard throughout the hoe for rich people. [laughter] if you've got certain assets, you're doing well. ironically enough, on the other end service to spectrum if you're not doing so well. and let's face it, most americans are underinvested. this is something that's interesting to maine look atta brookings headlines, demography and long-rate predictability of the stock market. you know, listen, the stock market can make you wealthier, it can set you with up for retirement. it's underscored by the headline and still so many americans are afraid or resis. about the. i want to bring in fox business correspondent lydia hu along with taylor riggs are. ladies, thank you so much for helping me on the unstoppable podcast, promoting tomorrow's

special. but we've talked about this, and i want to share the conversation, about just this reluck dance, this resistance, taylor, to get in the stock the market. you know, we know, we say, oh, we're always wrong about the rich being richer, and yet we know how they got there. >> yes. it's all about financial literacy, right? if it's like a language. you get in early and often, you teach it early, teach it often, start 'em young and build your with way up. and i feel like people in the stock market are afraid they're going to lose money, that they're e not going to since -- can understand it. you get in, fun -- for me, as you know, it's timing. it's time in the market, not timing it. get in early, help to start to ride some of the waves, but you have to take that first step. charles: lydia? >> yeah. i think it's a lot about talking to younger people too. and that's a question that we've broached on the podcast, how do we educate younger folks, because we know it's not a curriculum or classes that are taught in many of our schools. some states starts to make --

are starting to make changes like in florida, and i think expanding the conversation, teaching kids there is this whole world out will this and knowing where to go for information. sometimes we talk about tiktok and social media, a lot is bad about it, but i think there's actually some good in there talking about, at least showing people there's a whole wealth of information with financial literacy -- charles: i agree with you that there's some good stuff. the only part i don't like about that, and they missed taylor's point, making it a lifelong endeavor. if you view i tiktok videos, you think i can be rich tomorrow, i'm going to buy 17 buildings with no money down and that kind of stuff. the new york fed just did a survey and asked how much money do you need to switch jobs. right now it's at $81,000, i think $81,000, and in november it was $73,000. >> yeah. charles: i mean, that's a double-digit jump. look, that's a huge jump. and i, you know, we know that

the labor force, we know that job openings have declined, we know that small businesses have said they're not going to hire any more, so for people that need that kind of money in this environment, i don't know, lydia, i think it reflects inflation, but it also might be a tough situation for many americans. >> it is a tough situation for many americans. and this speaks to so many different stories that we cover. one is it's a very empowered worker, right, who has so many job options at their tint fingertips. they know they can change from job to job. hello, inflation, to your point. all that money, all these higher wages are also coming from somewhere. makes me think about the power of the labor unions right now, you know, out asking for more money, demanding -- workers deserve every cent that they're getting paid, but we also have to remember it's coming from somewhere. it's not just a bottomless corporate pit. at the end of the day, it comes back to the consumer, right, and the prices that we're paying. charles: right. >> inflation, inflation, inflation. charles: right. >> my first job i made $27,000.

that was 15 years ago, but it just shows you how much is required now to get someone in the work force or to get them to change jobs. her demanding, especially this young work force wage -- charles: my first job on wall street, i made $13,000, and you could not tell me i wasn't the bomb. [laughter] >> and you still are. charles: you go all the way down of the organizational chart, down to the bottom and flipped it over, there was my maim. you still couldn't tell me i was the bomb. [laughter] something i'm always worried about is the demographic crisis, the childbirth crisis. europe, i think, has dug themselves an irreversible hole, japan, china's on the way. right now 60% of americans -- back? 1993, 60% of those in the young 30s had at least one child, and now that number's down to 27,000. you two are new moms. >> yep. charles: i'm worried about it. i just think it's something that we don't -- we need people to have prosperity. >> i can tell you for me a lot

of it is the affordability crisis. i came out of college in the 2008 era. we lost everything, there were no jobs, so in my 20s or early 30s, i certainly was not in a position to settle down. it helped to make some things more affordable, you've done great analysis of childcare affordability or lack thereof, that certainly would make people more comfortable having families, but i think it'sing with pushed off to your late 30s now. >> you're absolutely right. if you ask young people not do you want to have kids, it's can you afford to have kids, people not saying, oh, i want one, two, three, four, it's can i afford -- charles: although when you look back in history, my grandparents had no indoor plumbing, they had 12, 13 kids. my father was in the military, my mother never made more than the minimum wage, they had three kids. in a way, it's a copout to. maybe you have to sacrifice the avocado toast. [laughter] i've got to get your taughts -- thoughts because you can't have

prosperity without people and peace. the justice department is a paying $137.8 million to settle lawsuits against larry flares, the fbi -- larry nas per, how disace pointing is it to this, that the fbi let all those pleas go away -- >> that they failed to investigate, the fbi had to apologize to some of the victims saying they apologized for not taking this issue seriously enough. >> this is the least they have to do, you know? this pales in comparison to the suffering that the victims have had to endure and that they will spend the rest are of their lives trying to recover from. charles: i know. but it's the fbi, they're supposed to -- it just brought a chill and a tear to my eyes. i'm glad they're paying the money, but it should never have happened. ladies, thank you both very, very much. >> thank you. liz: kelly o'grady is filling in for liz claman. kelly: hey there, charles. as you said, i am kelly o'grady in for liz claman today. we're going to begin the final hour of trading with breaking news. so "the wall street journal" reporting that i e b