will negotiate with a person whom they themselves will recognize as illegitimate, this would contradict the very idea of ​​such a potential agreement, so there is such a double situation that, on the one hand, everyone understands that international law has been destroyed and recognizing putin as not a legitimate president is absolutely unacceptable, on the other hand, everyone is thinking about some plans, the end of this terrible conflict in... central europe, and therefore i agree with ivanna that most likely they will behave quite discreetly. mr. oleksandr, this is a lack of vision the future of russia, what to do with russia , isn't it a sign of equality that the world doesn't know what, what to do with everyone on this planet earth, well , relatively speaking, that they, they don't know how they want to see their future, because the lack of vision of what to do with... russia

means not to understand or not to know what lies ahead? well, unfortunately, we really don't see any concrete and coherent strategy from the west in relation to russia, to its future. i think that here you can remember the words of mark twain, who said that history does not repeat itself, but it rhymes, that is, we see that... in some sense, one can say that the soviet union is repeating itself, that is, it is about the fact that at that time the west united states, as the leader of the western democratic world, tried to avoid the disintegration of the soviet union, they were afraid, they explained by what might arise, for example, the issue related to nuclear weapons, that is, they were also afraid of it, and perhaps now history is repeating itself in this regard, and therefore they do not have a clear...

strategy, but you have to remember remember that the disintegration of russia, its decline, the decline of this empire - this is an unceasing, irreversible process, which is an objective process, that is , it does not depend on the will of a person, and it is necessary to prepare, the west must already have both plan a and plan b, it is related to what will happen when the russian regime, which from the outside, looks quite solid. sure, but inside he is already rotten, and this, by the way, was shown by the situation with prigozhin's uprising, when in fact there was no power and desire of the soup to stop his advance on the territory of russia, that is, the collapse of russia, disintegration is a question of the nearest historical future, and it is necessary to have a certain strategy for ukraine and the west as well , well, of course, do not reduce this strategy to...

simple phrases that there should be peace negotiations between russia and ukraine, and even more so this was done by pope francis, not to call for sitting down with a white flag, or to offer russia to conduct these peace talks, by the way, nato secretary general jen stoltenberg in an interview with reuters, in response to the statement of pope francis that ukraine should have courage of the white flag, said literally the following, listen. no one wants peace more than ukrainians, they suffer every day because of the zagardnya war, they want peace, at the same time they want to exist as a sovereign, independent state, and the only way to ensure this is to provide military support to ukraine. now is not the time to talk about the capitulation of ukraine, it will be a tragedy for ukrainians, it will also be dangerous for all of us. but thank god that the secretary general

of nato clearly articulated this position, because pope francis very much resembles one of his own the predecessors of pope pius xii, who in the 1939-40s tried to negotiate with mussolini and hitler and actually repeated almost the same mantras over and over again: it is necessary to sit down at the negotiating table, it is necessary to agree on something, he agreed on something there with rabintrop in the 40th year, then eh... the nazis went further and captured holland and france, well, that is, this history repeats itself. ms. ivanna, why, in particular, the holy see does not teach this story, why does the pope, knowingly or unknowingly, god knows, play along with the russian federation and putin, why he cannot clearly say: here is a murderous country, here is a country which...suffers

from the aggression of the russian federation, what prevents him from doing this? well, it seems to me that we have to understand that the position of the pope, the position of the pope, and to some extent it still remains a political, political post, and this particular roman pope, he probably represents the entire ideology, ideological, ideological approaches of this so- called global rooster, which is not unaware of this, well, this evil. which the russian federation carries with it, and does not want it to see, even when it manifests itself in the most cruel, catastrophic things that russia is doing on the territory of ukraine, not

only the last two years, all 10 years during which this war has been going on, and in fact i am sorry that the pontiff ... it turns out such a weak political figure and is a hostage of some of his own, probably preliminary ideas about the world, and besides, i think that to a certain extent somewhere, for sure we, as ukraine, and as a state, and maybe as churches, are not finishing up with in this work with this pope roman, that it would be important to have such an active ukrainian in place there. a presence that could make arguments, give advice to the holy see. it hurts me a lot that a person from such a position, from such a post, with such opportunities, with

such influence in the world is unable to use this influence in order to stop evil and, well, somehow... with those mantras about what that it is necessary to reconcile both sides, and one must have the courage of a white flag, is trying to appeal to ukrainians, if not understanding or realizing, or consciously ignoring the fact that if ukrainians raise the white flag, it means that we as ukrainians, only as a sovereign state , which stoltenberg is talking about, will not exist, we will not exist physically, as a people, as individual people, as individual personalities, therefore that russia will do everything to finally destroy everything that claims to be separate and to be ukrainian on our territory, that is why it is such a bitter

bell that is ringing in the world today, and of course you want to hope that there will be voices around the pope. which will force him after all, really really apologize, i see such efforts, some such dull and gray efforts to explain what he meant by his spokespeople, but they definitely do not stand up to any further criticism, i would just like to take this opportunity to thank to our patriarch, the head of the ukrainian greek catholic church svyatoslav. and to his holiness for his position, which is exactly the position of the ukrainian people, ukrainian believers, ukrainian catholics, including greek catholics. mr. andrew, what do you think, pope francis, he is not

understands the situation that exists in ukraine, or does not want to understand, or is it possible that he is deliberately just playing on the side of the russian federation and understands that... he expressed himself, this is a state with a great culture, remember, his appeal was to russians at the youth forum online address to the russians who were at the international forum in st. petersburg, that is, he lives in some coordinate system of his own, although ms. ivanna correctly said that with such status and such power in the world, he could do much more than he did that is, not to articulate these. some white flags and calls for peace talks, where , where, where they cannot happen simply, you know, friends, we often overestimate people, depending on their status, on their mandate, i slightly disagree with ivanna,

who is trying if one were to criticize him, that he is not able to retreat from some of his previous beliefs, listen, we are all... hostages of our previous experience, and no matter how experienced or intelligent people are, they all live in a certain system coordinate, which was formed by decades of their professional work. whatever it may be, even at such a high intellectual level, and probably a word should be said at the political level, as with the current pope of rome, who has already been in this party for decades. i am absolutely convinced that the problem is not even what he said, but that he believes everything. i mean, it's not like you 're asking me if he even plays someone's side there. plays along with someone, i believe that he believes in it, you see, and it is much worse, he is

completely from these left-wing milieus of south america, which have always been very left-wing, which had a completely different philosophy than protestant europe there or even the united states of america, again, he is from that part of the world where ukraine is very far away. well, we all travel a little around the world , when we are sometimes allowed to do so, but we know this experience, when you are in america, you feel that europe, excuse me, damn it, well , it is very far away, you can feel it on your skin, ukraine is even further away, just imagine people from latin america, from argentina, from brazil, that is, for them it is all a kind of mythology, this is russia, there is some ukraine, but russia is still perceived as an empire. all that is around the empire is probably some small countries that trade, and how

strange it is, but even a man like the pope of rome, he really lives in this coordinate system, and what he said, he is in it's the faith, it's his reading, including the gospels and his role as pontiff, you know that standard pattern of turning the other cheek when you get hit one at a time, so we are unlikely to fix him, but... world public, publicity, media influence, he does his job. i was a little busy today, but i read something somewhere that he seems to have gone into reverse a little bit there, and they have already started to interpret this statement of his from two days ago a little differently, so they are changing, based on the general tone of media communications in the world, and i think this is just another example for everyone. those of us who work in ukraine, that our field has not yet been plowed work for the promotion of ukrainian interest and

the ukrainian narrative, especially in south america, where there are practically no embassies there, i know a little about the argentine and brazilian embassies there, well, everyone knows that there is a minimum staff, minimum resources, and of course , ukraine is not represented, accordingly, to expect that we will be known, we will be... known, we will be protected, well, it is very naive, so let's look first of all at the history with the statements of the pope, as a task for us everything to work more and more in the international arena. thank you, mr. andriy, mr. oleksandr , how do these statements that are heard, including from the mouth of the pope of rome, how do they affect the final decisions made by the leaders of western european countries, in particular, that... regarding the assets that frozen in western europe, russian assets, or does this

cause some kind of hesitation among the leaders of western europe, and suddenly now ukraine and russia will come to an agreement, we have frozen russian funds here, and they, they will now agree on everything and then it will be very inconvenient before kremlin, in front of putin, and we will give this money to ukraine, and again we have to look for some justification, we have to somehow explain it to putin. i think that rather, if we are talking about the issue of the money of russian assets, sovereign assets that have been frozen, and we are now trying to have these assets confiscated and transferred to ukraine, then there is some resistance, but it is rather not due to any principles or ideals or values ​​of the spiritual order or ideological order, but specific economic interests. because, unfortunately, many countries, where russian money is, they are not interested

in confiscating it and handing it over, and they are looking for various excuses not to do this, but there are very clear legal arguments, because russia is committing grave international crimes, and such crimes as the crime of aggression or the crime of genocide, these are crimes not only... against the victim, not only against ukraine, but also crimes against the entire world society, that is, against those countries where russian money is located, and this is sufficient. legal international law argument, as a countermeasure, as a sanction in order to confiscate this money and hand it over to the victim of these crimes, the victim of aggression and the victim of genocide, i.e. ukraine, and that is enough, but unfortunately, we see that these

countries, they will continue to seek opportunities and arguments not to do it, but what we need here is about... persistence, determination and convincing them, in the end, to do the legally correct thing. today , negotiations took place in the european commission and the european commission prepared the negotiating framework necessary in the process of advancing ukraine to membership in to the european union, and rfe/rl quotes the vice president of the european commission, marush shevchovych, who... after the meeting of the board of european commissioners , announced that we have completed work on proposals for the draft negotiation framework with ukraine and moldova, which will be submitted to the council for consideration. the next step should be the approval of the proposed negotiation framework by the ministers and leaders of the eu countries, but as the president

of the european commission, ursula fonderley, said before that. in her opinion, it is unlikely to happen before the european ones. elections to be held in june 2024. mrs. ivano, it is time to agree on these negotiating frameworks and how they will proceed, how ukraine's progress in the negotiations on membership in the european union will proceed, is it not prolonged, or is it a normal procedure that occurs with every country that claims membership in the eu. it happens in different ways with different countries, and it happened with different countries, and in one case or another it took a certain number of months even to agree on this negotiating framework, but in our case with you, we have to understand what will happen next the approval process will be delayed, the more it will be politicized, if

it is about the fact that it will take place against the background of the parliamentary... elections to the european parliament, pan-european elections, and they will take place on june 9 this year, and actually we also understand that that there are a large number of different environments in different countries, members of the european union, who will try to use, for example, the already adopted decision on the negotiation framework with ukraine and moldova, how about such an election an argument for, by the way, destabilizing, well, a certain destabilization of the situation, i think that even in the situation with, say, the blocking of the polish-ukrainian border, there is a large presence of such a political component, and these are similar things, well, if not in the form of

strikes and blockades there, in some another way we will also see in many other countries, and in many other countries, i think this is exactly what was meant when the president of the european commission, ursula fonderlein, said that the negotiations on the framework would most likely be approved after the elections to the european parliament, although it is not in the interests of ukraine, in my opinion, the longer this decision process is delayed. of the negotiation framework with ukraine , unfortunately, the chances are increasing that it may be postponed not until june, but until the next year, 2025. i am talking about this because, unfortunately, the next presiding

country in the european union will be hungary from july 1 to december 31, 24. of that year, and it will definitely not be a priority for her in her presidency of the european union, to achieve coordination of positions between all countries, members of the european union, regarding the agreement of the negotiation framework with ukraine and with moldova. thank you, mrs. ivano, mr. andrii, how can we negotiate with our neighbors, and first of all with hungary, so that they do not put sticks in our wheels and... and understand that ukraine is currently at war, and it is very important for us to be a member of the european community, it should have been done 5-10 years ago, start doing, such things do not... happen in a day or two months, it is a long, painstaking work, and now we just have to be as realistic as possible,

i'll just continue a little what ivanna said, i don't completely agree, because i think that approving the framework before the elections to the european parliament, before the beginning of june, is probably bad, because it will definitely be used in political interests competing parties. in europe, we already see that the ukrainian theme is perfectly used in political battles, and of course, this does not work in our favor from the word in general, therefore, from this point of view, it may probably be better if they agree to it after elections, but on the other hand, yes, after the elections, hungary took over the leadership of the european commission until december, and i have no doubts that during this period on... it is also unlikely to achieve anything there, because hungary, as you can see, is very clearly plays his party, orbán recently went to trump,

said a lot, and based on all this, i think that the realities are such that if we get these frameworks approved by the end of the year, it will be possible not bad, but at the same time it is not necessary to perceive as something unexpected, even when it was a decision was made to start negotiations last december. year , it was absolutely clear that a very, very difficult process awaits us, and the further, well , the further, only three months have passed there, and we see what difficulties are ahead of us, both from the point of view of relations with hungary, and these completely insane strikes in poland, which are used absolutely manipulatively most likely through russian agents by pro-russian parties, and the same situation with slovakia, to put it mildly, is not very in our favor, that is, it is called welcome to reality, the reality of the european union is complex, cruel, and in fact, just as in the situation

with the pope, which we discussed just a few minutes ago, so in all matters of relations, both with our closest neighbors and with all members of the european union , there is no other recipe than constant... dialogue, and constant means constant, on any platforms, anywhere where politicians, public activists, activists gather, we must be as a country with our own agenda, we must be with their arguments, we have to be our own proposals, because not only do we have to ask for help and cry about how unhappy we are, that we are being killed here, we have to constantly offer something and thus build our ukrainian interest. europe, otherwise nothing will happen, thank you, mr. andriy, mr. oleksandr, how do you see the passage of this big change procedure,

it is clear that first there will be a framework, then there will be these negotiations, do we have enough strength and opportunities now to convince our european friends that we must necessarily be a member of the european union, and this is our choice, this is the choice of the ukrainian people, not just a choice. some officials or politicians, and for some reason i remembered the famous slogan of the 60s, be realistic, demand the impossible. i believe that we need to take a rather radical position here, because for us the question of ukraine's membership in the eu is not just a question of membership in an international organization, it is a question of our life, our survival. i am sure that... the entry, the entry as soon as possible, the entry of ukraine into the eu, will contribute to our victory, why, because putin, he is afraid of one thing, he is afraid

of solidarity, european solidarity, which is behind every member of this organization, the european union, in addition there is a common defense policy, a common foreign policy, which is also important to ensure the security of ukraine, so for me... the question of our accession is, firstly, a question of our security, and secondly, it is a political question, a question of political will. for some reason, i think that if leaders of such caliber were in power in the european countries now, like cherchel, they would understand this very well, and the issue of ukraine's accession would be resolved in the shortest possible time. i think it is necessary to make such a decisive. a radical step that will save ukraine, that will help us defend ourselves and ultimately win. so there is one argument, a strong argument, that

prevails. all other arguments are that ukraine is currently saving the european union and the whole of europe at the cost of the lives of its citizens, so this valid argument deserves ukraine to become a member of the european union as soon as possible. thank you, mr. oleksandr. oleksandr mereshko, andrii osadchuk and ivana klympush were guests of our program today. thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for your participation in this program, our... let me remind you that during our program we conducted polls and are conducting polls, we ask you the following: are the raids of russian rebels on the territory of the russian federation bringing our victory closer? these are the results of our television survey, 81% of those who watch us now on the tv channel believe that these raids are bringing us closer to our victory, 19% say they are not. in ...

youtube, we have 79% yes results, 21% - no, that's it these are the results of our survey today, i remind you, friends, that you can join our social networks, we are on all social networks, subscribe to our pages on youtube, on facebook, on telegram, on facebook, on instagram, we are everywhere, so look for espresso tv, join our pages, besides... you can read our news on the espresso tv website, the most up-to-date information from ukraine, the world, from the front, everything is on our espresso tv website, this site is one of the top 10 sites information sites of ukraine, so read our news, always be aware of events, be aware of events, we work for you, that's the end of it friends, i'll say goodbye to you until tomorrow until

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