republicans -- >> -- towards a more stable, prosperous, and interconnected future. i've been traveling in and out of pakistan for almost two years -- 50 years. i've always argued that pakistan is a country with the consequence for the u.s. in the region despite its many challenges. it has 240 million people, the majority of whom are under 30.

many speak english. they are entrepreneurial and they are resilient. pakistan has abundant natural resources, including huge potential for green energy in hydro, wind, and solar. it has rich agricultural lands and ample deposits or critical minerals. its location has made it a key partner to the u.s. in confrontations with russia and al qaeda in a neighboring afghanistan. it borders china, the u.s.'s main competitor. it could serve as a natural bridge between europe and asia. pakistan's professional and disciplined army is among the 10 largest in the world. its successful guys for a -- it's successful diaspora is going in influence in u.s. political circles. it has turned itself into a nuclear weapon state, despite our best efforts to discourage that outcome. i first went to pakistan in

1975, driving from europe across a peaceful and tourist-friendly afghanistan and over the khyber pass into islamabad. i worked in the usaid mission there, when donors were nothing the travail a dam, pakistan was self-sufficient in wheat thanks to the american nobel laureate norman for log and his -- norman borlaug and his work on the green revolution. family-planning was in fashion. pakistan's per capita income was higher than india's, and there was a sense of optimism about pakistan's economic future. the population was a mere 60 million, one quarter what it is today. pressures on the environment were felt very strongly. the big topic of the day was waterlogging and so lindsay from poorly lined -- salinity from poorly lined irrigation canals for some foreigners were free to

travel the length and breadth of this spectacularly beautiful country, which i did with great enthusiasm. but things are much different today. pakistan has the lowest per capita income in the region except for nepal and afghanistan and is deeply in debt. income distribution is seriously skewed. export industries are not competitive. years of war in afghanistan have brought refugees, guns, and islamic insurgents like the tpp, which are organizing regular attacks on pakistan's periphery. population pressures exacerbate climate challenges. the stagnant economy does not provide enough jobs for young people. all in all it is a bit of a discouraging time. one thing that is not changed in pakistan is the tendency towards tempestuous politics. in the 1970's when i was there,

general ziev staged a coup and put ali bhutto in jail. i know that the u.s. is watching this closely and wants to support pakistan's journey towards a healthy democracy. some of the results of this election are being contested, but coalition building in the pakistan tradition of a parliamentary system is well underway. we all must be patient while legal battles play themselves out just as americans had to be patient in the 2000 election between george bush and al gore, which as you will recall took a few weeks to sort out. regardless of the outcome of the election, pakistan will remain a country of consequence can which the u.s. should strive to understand and cultivate as a strong partner.

a new government will need to get on with the urgent issues of restructuring the debt, broadening the tax base, attracting crucial investment to secure the next imf deal. this is what the ambassador and daniel o'day -- daniel runde are here to discuss. let me first invite ambassador khan up to the podium. thank you. [applause] amb. khan: mr. daniel runde, senior vice president of csis, ambassador robin, good morning. thank you very much for your statement. as i said a short while ago, you have been a goodwill ambassador

between pakistan and the united states for decades. we appreciate your commitment to this relationship. thank you so much, mr. runde, for hosting this event and sent during our conversation on -- centering our conversation on the prospects for pakistan's economic of element. i recall in 2015 you contributed a seminal piece in "forbes" arguing that pakistan had the potential to be a global turnaround story, and advised of united states policymakers and business leaders the look at pakistan beyond the security lands. -- lens. you identified planning and action around trade, investment, education, and broader economic progress. you had recommended that the united states ought to be pakistan's preferred partner. you were right then and your

council is sound today. over the past two years, pakistan and the united states have consciously fostered congruence in their relations. we will continue to build on this new threshold. pakistan, i assure you, will have a bright future despite present challenges. pakistan is the 24th largest economy measured by purchasing power parity. it is the fifth most populous country with a population of 240 million, 64% of whom are below the age of 30. 60% of them are working age. and 42% in the middle class, according to the united nations development program. we are bilingual, and we have 190 million mobile telephone and 130 million broadband subscribers. the nation is tech-savvy, and

the economy is digitizing fast. our priorities are to create wealth, enhance the quantity and quality of human capital, upgrade manufacturing, modernize agriculture, switch to export-led growth, prepare for the climate change, eradicate poverty, make our products competitive, and brand pakistan as an economic and trade hub. pakistan is no island. no country is an island. and pakistan in fact sits at the heart of the economic ecosystem of west asia, extending from central asia to the middle east and north africa. we invite our friends to leverage our unique economic geography. as i speak, structural economic reforms are already taking place, they are underway. we have decided to turn a series

of recent challenges -- the pandemic, floods, post-ukraine supply chain disruptions -- into opportunity to implement a broad range of economic and human development reforms. the world bank's proposed reforms for a brighter future initiative, time to decide, leased in december last year, would neatly fit into this paradigm. the brighter future reforms are part ways for rapid growth in human capital, sustainability and public finances, competitive and outward-oriented private sector, realizing pakistan's potential, and sustainability and strengthening institutions for effective reform implementation. to accomplish economic reforms, we have national consensus to streamline and eliminate nontargeted subsidies, expand tax base, trim nonperforming

state-owned enterprises, pare back market distortions, and increased government support for the marginalized segments of society. all those reforms are designed to address fiscal and external deficits and rev up our growth engines. pakistan has a host of foreign direct investment regime and a group -- we seek agribusiness and ict. despite a demanding macroeconomic environment the past two years, foreign businesses including of the united states did not scale back. instead, we saw a new capital investments from canada, the gulf region, and china. the united states is a big investor in pakistan, where 80 american enterprises, most of them fortune 500, are profitably running their businesses.

these include food products, pharmaceuticals and health care, agriculture, and financial services. the u.s. private sector is also investing in ict and alternative energy, and in the near future its share of solar and wind power generation will grow. united states is the largest single country export destination for pakistan, and last year we had a trade surplus of $6 billion in our favor. in february between 23, pakistan and the united states -- february 2023, pakistan and the united states held the ninth minister go meeting on the trade and investment framework agreement after a gap of seven years. pakistan's strong diaspora in the united states estimated one million go bridges between pakistan and the united states is becoming a leader in channeling united states' investments to pakistan.

in the last fiscal year, our u.s.-based diaspora investments are in fact remittances, $3 billion, same as in the previous year. to answer your question as to what are the most promising sex -- the most promising sectors, i would start with the tech sector. a small 10 belinda -- $10 million venture capital funding has soared to $4 billion. e-commerce earned $6 billion last year. tech startups covering for an tech, -- fintech, real estate, and transportation are transforming pakistan's economic landscape. this is just the beginning. new technologies, ai, robotics, block chain, synthetic biology,

you name it, are being taught in pakistani colleges and universities and being assimilated by industry. venture capital firms from the united states, europe, the gulf, china, and southeast asia are financing these startups because they see pakistan as the next digital hub. which even now has 30,000 i.t. firms and 75,000 i.t. graduates joining the workforce every year. we are training an additional 200,000 i.t. experts to meet the growing demand of the market. we may well surprise you, surprised everybody, with trained semiconductor experts soon. other areas of direct interest to american investors would be energy, agriculture, and critical minerals.

about critical minerals, i would say that pakistan is sitting on a treasure trove of minerals, and they include copper, gold, cobalt, lithium, rare-earth, manganese, all of which there is demand, and i would say here that pakistan must become partner in mineral security partnership, because i think that this group would be incomplete without the participation of pakistan. and these four areas i have identified, energy, agriculture, critical minerals, and i.t., all these have been prioritized by the newly constituted special investment facilitation counsel for fast-track foreign investment. sfic, a one-stop shop, will

guarantee speedy approvals of project development and implementation. a raft of incentives is being offered to investors. to improve the investment climate, we have taken measures to strengthen the enforcement of intellectual property rights, streamlined dispute settlement, ensure protection of foreign investment, give equitable dispensation taxes to foreign investors, and provide tax exemptions. you ask another question, mr. runde, and that is what do we want from the united states in the next 10 to 20 years. i would say more investment in pakistan and through pakistan in the western hemisphere. to achieve this goal, usaid, xm bank, and the trade development of the -- ex-im bank, and the

trade of element 30 can plate a critical role. you will open doors -- it will open doors for pakistan investors. we are confident that economic stability and symbiotic with -- economic stability and growth are symbiotic. they will build an equilibrium that safeguards the supreme interest of pakistan. solutions cannot come from abroad. as a matter of fact, we have to sort it out. at the same time, we respect this keen interest in pakistan from abroad, and also the wise counsel that is being given to us from time to time. pakistan is key to south asia security.

right now the united states is preoccupied with -- or is constrained by strategic priorities in our neighborhood, europe and the middle east. this limits attention to pakistan. both sides are to work to enhance -- all to work to enhance the space for pakistan-u.s. cooperation. it is in the strategic interests of the united states and pakistan to remain productively engaged. the united states government has cast off the indo centric approach towards pakistan. yet south asia's security needs to be prioritized in its own right, not as a subset of the indo-pacific strategy. india and pakistan, two nuclear powers, should reestablish communication channels for confidence-building and strategic restraint.

the issue of cashmere cannot be raised by realpolitik. for durable regional peace and security, it must be resolved through bilateral, trilateral, or multilateral -- with international law and the united nations resolutions. pakistan should be a meeting point, not a battleground, for the united states and china. countries are welcome to invest in pakistan in the areas of competencies and competitiveness. we await american decisions on the restoration for pakistan military financing and select political equipment to keep the strategic balance in south asia and fight the raging threat of terrorism. a recent united nations

analytical support and sanctions monitoring report has established that al qaeda has been training taliban pakistan in 8 camps in afghanistan to support cross-border attacks in pakistan. isis-k and ttp attacks are a potent threat to pakistan, the united states, and its allies. we must have a coordinated strategy to eliminate it. i convey my gratitude to a majority of think tanks in washington, d.c., and the united states who have advocated for stronger u.s.-pakistan relations steered by diplomacy and focused on continuity of security cooperation, regional stabilization, and people-to- people exchanges. thank you, mr. runde, and thank you, csis. the last paragraph.

pakistan and the united states in the current phase are developing a new, steady rhythm for relations, not buffeted by highs and lows. in the past two years we have made progress in creating a template for vigorous cooperation. we have more than a dozen high-level dialogues last year, and this year we are preparing for higher-level political, economic, trade, counterterrorism, and defense dialogues. wait for the results. the future of pakistan-u.s. relations is bright. i thank you, mr. runde and csis. [applause] >> why don't we sit over here? join me over there, ambassador. good. have a seat. either one is ok. just turn on your microphone. technology's -- good.

thank you. thanks for joining us today. i'm so pleased -- i really appreciate you been here today. everything i've learned about pakistan, i've learned from ambassador raphel. thank you for your partnership. and you are always welcome. i hope you consider it your second home in washington. i think you represent the vast of your generation engines of public intellectuals who think about issues of foreign policy. pakistan sent one of its greatest minds when they asked you to take on this important mission to be here in washington. thanks for saying yes to that mission, and i think you have done a great job in your time so far as ambassador. thank you for saying yes.

i do want to just say that, as you know, for almost 10 years i've of the view that we need to broaden our lens of how we look at pakistan. we have looked at pakistan through a series of distorted lenses over a long period of time. for a long time we looked at pakistan to the left of u.s.-india relations. for another period we looked at pakistan through the lens of afghanistan, which is 1/10 the size of pakistan. and i also think present company in the audience excluded that i would argue that unfortunately we've had much of our expertise and pakistan has either been in the pentagon or in the intelligence community. that is my view.

i am a republican, i like peace through strength, but i would argue that our relationship with pakistan has been over-militarized on the u.s. side at least. we have led with -- present company excluded -- made efforts to move us in a different direction -- the pull of gravity has been towards that. i read another article, as you know, ambassador, in 2020 -- whatever smart things i said i heard from ambassador raphel, which is that at some point we will have a different relationship with afghanistan and we will get ready for a different relationship with pakistan when that happens. we are still sorting that out. i we are seeing that player -- i think we are seeing that play out, and you are here at a time when it's a critical moment for us to think about that. i think for all the reasons you said, it's the fifth largest country in the world. we don't look at ethiopia

through the lens of some other country. we don't look at brazil through the lens of some other country. we don't look at indonesia through the lens of some other country. it's dumb of us to look at pakistan through the lens of one of these other countries. it is not in the american interest to do so. there's a temptation to do it and there is default to do it, but i think it is a mistake. we have to work harder at that, and i think think tanks can play a role in that. i would like to do more here. there are people in town working in the abduction as well and there are people in pakistan -- working in that direction as well and there are people in pakistan who are important interlocutors as well. that is why i wanted to have you today, because i feel strongly about this. let me go back to the question that you answered a little bit earlier. i think there is a bigger question for us in washington about how we -- can we be -- i

said this in 2015, we need to be a preferred partner of choice in much of the world. i do think in pakistan, how can we be -- i want to go back to this meta-question of how do we have a different kind of relationship with your country. you made some comments about that when you talked about some very specific things, things i agree with and subscribe to. but pakistan set -- my theory, when i say to people in my building here and elsewhere, places like pakistan send their best people to represent their country, and we should really listen to investors like ambassador k -- ambassadors like ambassador khan, because they send their best folks. i know this is a think-tank kind of question, but how can we be a better plan or have a better relationship with you? it is always going to be

scratchy and he gravitates towards that. but could you double-click on this issue of -- he is having a sound issue? ok, we're going to have to do this talk-show style. sorry, technology is great when it works. ambassador khan, i think you are the question. you referenced some of this in your remarks. could i ask you to elaborate more on that? you said to meet, what i want to spend the next five years on if i'm not at a think tank is this question. i'm doing this event with other ambassadors from the global south -- we will ask the panamanian ambassador, zambian ambassador, likely the mongolian ambassador, and i will ask you that question. can i start with that? how can we be a better -- you think about this all day long, your whole embassy team thinks

about this and probably is frustrated because you are probably telling us that and we are not listening. i'm listening. i would like my colleagues to listen. how can we be a better partner to you? amb. khan: thank you so much. i think that despite the noisy debates in washington or islamabad, there is a lot of one for between pakistan and the united states. it dates back to the 1950's. we helped each other in very difficult times. that legacy survives. whether it is the pentagon, the state department, congress, it hasn't vaporize. we need to not worry too much about it. add to that the diaspora community, it's an abiding, strong link between pakistan and the united states. they are investing in pakistan and they are promoting trade and investment between the two countries, but people-to-people contacts or exchanges, they are

the catalyst. second, i would like to say that first we must clear the underbrush. what is that? first, it is that we should liberate ourselves, our relationship, from the time zone of the war on terror, because it keeps on stalking you all the time, all the lexicon, all the phraseology, it is traced back to that period. it was a difficult period for the united states, for pakistan, for the countries of the region. if we can work past that and deal with issues today, that would be very helpful for pakistan-u.s. relationship. second, i would like to say that i'll try to introduce some new monthss -- nuances. first, when we say that pakistan should not be looked at through the india lens, in the same breath i would said this doesn't

mean that pakistan is not original actor. that pakistan is not key -- that pakistan is not a regional actor, that pakistan is not key to peace in south asia. united states should engage pakistan as an influential actor, is a consequential actor in south asian politics. the these instability -- the peace and stability that impinges on u.s.-led diplomacy there. when it comes to china, our aspiration is that the united states and china, the two biggest economies, two big powers, they would sort out there probl-- their problems through diplomacy and would never reach a point where they have to confront each other militarily, because such a war would be messy not just for the two countries but for the entire world. finally, i would like to say that you have to realize the full potential of pakistan. you look at the west asian

hemisphere to which i referred. pakistan is the largest population there. look at central, west asia, north africa, east africa. pakistan has the biggest demographic force in every field. daniel: youth, population, any of that. amb. khan: i also refer to economic geography. we can be a destination for investments, u.s. investments, and we can be of the distribution point for global supply chains. that's already happening. in an embryonic form. we have to scale it up. that is why the bulk of my presentation was on pakistan-u.s. economic partnership, which already has some strong sinews. but they have to develop further. let me give you one instance.

your biggest tech giants -- not venture capitalists in the united states, san francisco, they invest in pakistan. nobody knows about it. there are 80 american enterprises investing in pakistan. nobody knows about them, this is not, knowledge.--common knowledge. venture capitalists. this was not probably regulated by the governments of the two countries. this is global economy, which is making its own decisions. there is a lot of potential, there is no room for pessimism. and that is where i should stop. daniel: ok. i think i agree. let me push on -- let me just go back to my point about if i think about brazil, pakistan's bigger in terms of populations and brazil. think about turkey, pakistan is

bigger than turkey. indonesia is a little bigger, but at some point you surpass indonesia -- is not right, in the next 10 years or so? pakistan will have a population bigger than indonesia. i think about those three countries. we have scratchy relationships in some areas with brazil, we have scratchy relationships in some areas with turkey, and we have scratchy relationships with indonesia. i understand why, but if we could get to something closer that kind of aligned with one of those three with pakistan, we would have a better footing for both of our countries. for some reason we can't -- we haven't been able to fully successfully get there, for a bunch of reasons that we know. i think we need to continue to push towards that, because it is in both of our interests. let me go back to this people-to-people think.

you must have it on the top of your head. how many pakistanis study here? amb. khan: the number is small, but it increased by 17% last year. more than 10,000 students studying here. it is not a good statistic, because there are 30,000 pakistani students studying in china. daniel: ok, that is the statistic we should take away. there is 10,000 here, and there is 30,000 in china. when i go to a developing country, i have two questions. where do your promising students study? if more of them are studying in tsinghua then cal state, we've got a problem. we have got to wake up and smell the coffee on that. the second question i asked people is where you buy your defense assets from. historically you used to buy your defense assets from the united states. where are you buying more of your defense assets from these days? amb. khan: well, the bulk of our

defense supplies come from china. daniel: they didn't used to be that right, right-- that way, ri ght? amb. khan: yeah, but we have another problem. the supply chain for defense articles was suspended, or terminate. not terminated, it was suspended in 2018. that has affected our relationship. we have been pleading with the pentagon and the state department and congress to restore, because we still have a considerable percentage of our defense platforms which are of u.s. origin. daniel: you would like to -- amb. khan: helicopters. what we need right now is sustainment. there should be approvals, fast-tracked approvals for sustainment.

we are ready to buy new platforms. united states should be our predictable supplier of our defense equipment. daniel: ambassador, i 100% agree with that. ok, so my wife is from argentina. i have an honorary phd in argentina. i know a lot about argentina. as you know, ambassador come pakistan was willing to sell secondhand chinese jets to argentina. united states said whoa whoa whoa, don't buy the secondhand chinese jets from pakistan for argentina. at the end of the day there was a decision made. it was a preference for, no, we will find a way, and they got denmark to sell secondhand f-16s. my point is that there are other providers of defense assets in the. there is other providers of education opportunities in the world. and it is a different role than 20 years ago.

it is a different world than 25 years ago. the holding of i will cut off your f-16s, that was a 1995 kind of playbook kind of thing. i'm not sure it works in 2024, or it doesn't work in the same way. a country like pakistan said, ok, that's fine, i will triple down on buying assets from china, because i can do that. maybe they are not the cadillac defense stuff, but they are the buick, and they are pretty good. i'm not sure that is necessarily in our interest. i think we have to think hard about do we want to have -- it is probably in our interest to probably revisit. i suspect, -- with your country about afghanistan. i'm sure there are other reasons why friends in the defense department will tell us. i'm sure if they were here they would say i can understand we were upset about that. but i think we have to think differently because your

country, like a lot of countries, have options today that you didn't have. is that right, ambassador? amb. khan: let me say that we are grateful to the biden administration because in 2022 they approved $450 million for sustainment of the f-16 aircraft. this was good. since then we have been waiting for sustainment ii. what i want to say is that it is not a systemwide agreement to block defense supplies to pakistan. we have to mobilize bipartisan support for scaling up relationships with pakistan. overall, trade, investment, defense cooperation. daniel: our u.s. ambassador to china says people-to-people ties between the people's republic of china and the united states is the ballast of our

relationship. i would argue that people-to-people ties with pakistan are also the ballast. covid got in the way of that. i made a speech a few years ago -- 2019, where jordan had something like three or four times the amount of tourists that pakistan has, and pakistan has a lot to offer in terms of natural beauty, in terms of cultural sites. there is no reason that pakistan shouldn't have as many tourists as jordan has, for example. that is another area. amb. khan: let me add a few things. daniel: sorry -- like a talkshow. sorry about that, ambassador. amb. khan: very few people know that 50,000 americans working in pakistan. daniel: really? amb. khan: despite the travel advice. this is an official figure that has been cited by the state

department, it's not my figure. second, i would like to say that pakistanis are the largest recipients of fulbright scholarships. on the brighter side, i would also say that we have an alumni network of more than 30 7000. daniel: really? studying in the u.s.? amb. khan: either they went back, or probably some of them returned to the united states. and we have strong linkages from the west coast, east coast, wherever you go you find these pakistanis in very eminent positions. and they contribute to pakistan-u.s. relations. our people-to-people track is quite strong. and united states has been emulated in many fields, whether it is agriculture -- agriculture is closely linked to people. you started off this green revolution in the 1960's. it has been revived by the

current administration here. we have an initiative called united states-pakistan green alliance, focusing on hybrid seeds, smart agriculture. this is fantastic. daniel: ambassador, could pakistan be another ukraine in terms of agricultural productivity? amb. khan: in a sense we already are. we should be self-sufficient in wheat, rice, cotton. but there are some market distortions. but pakistan is one of the granaries of south asia. we can -- daniel: i don't think that is fully appreciated here. amb. khan: and we are in the top 10 category when it comes to projection of rice, wheat, and cotton. daniel: please forgive me if i ask a prosaic question here, but if i want to make a direct

flight from the east coast united states, is there a direct flight in the continental united states to pakistan today? amb. khan: it used to be in the past. you want to fly out of the east coast or west coast? daniel: either one. i know it is a silly question, but i looked at u.s.-kazakh relations. my deepest thought was if we could just have a direct flight between all moxie and come i don't know, new york, that would do a heck of a lot of good. we need to figure out if there isn't a direct flight, whether it is pakistan international airlines, united, i'm sure it is on your mind and your embassy is thinking about this, if we could figure that out that would be a wonderful thing. i know this sounds silly, like an overly simplistic thing, but that would really help. amb. khan: there is bad news and good news. the bad news is that for several years we haven't had this direct

flight. the good news is that department of transportation in the aviation division of pakistan, they have come to an understanding to restart direct flights. and in the recent past, top airlines from europe, united kingdom, europe proper, they have been flying into pakistan, direct flights. but i keep hoping, and i think it would materialize soon, that bia would be able to fly. -- pia would be able to fly. there is an agreement in principle to restart direct flights. daniel: my hope is that in calendar year 2024, ambassador, i can get a flight out of new york or d.c. to whether it is islamabad or one of the big cities in pakistan. that would be an amazing thing.

i will keep that in the back of my mind as i'm talking to biden administration officials, saying this is something if we wanted to improve our relations with pakistan, this is something we are to operationalize on our side. i suspect it is our problem, not your problem, but i will raise this if i have opportunities to do so. it strikes me this would be really important. amb. khan: sure, definitely. daniel: let me press on one more thing and that i want to give a chance for smart folks to ask a question, too. ambassador raphel knows i'm just about this, that if you want to have a carbon -- i am obsessed about this, that if we want to have a carbon revolution we need minerals from head to toe. i'm reading this book "the war below," i can't put it down. we have to understand the mining and mineral potential of pakistan, and then we have to figure out a way like with other countries whether it is indonesia or argentina or countries in africa to get some kind of deal, free trade

agreements. they are trading metals and pure basic materials as if it is domestic content and we have a free trade agreement one thing we need to figure out how to do more and better and safely and appropriately, mining in pakistan. but then having it like you are preferred source. we will have to revisit whatever our trading relationship is with you as part of that. maybe not a free-trade agreement, but may be a special carveout for mining and minerals. i'm sure these have foster mind. --crossed your mind. amb. khan: i mentioned it in the opening statement and i want to reiterate it, that i want pakistan to be part of minimal security. -- mineral security. daniel: 100%. amb. khan: we belong to that family. second, we have prioritize investment in this sector, extractive industry as a whole,

all the key minerals. i mentioned to some of the minerals. daniel: amazing. amb. khan: lithium, rare earth, copper in particular. we have a mine, barrick gold has invested in, $7 billion project. barrick gold has invested in it and gulf countries are interested in it. we are also making a transformation from fossil fuel- based energy to alternate energy. we are investing heavily in solar and wind power generation. the united states has invested in wind power. earlier it helped us with hydropower. ambassador raphel referred to.

grateful to the united states for that. what we need is investors now. i refer to the sifc. its purpose right now is too fast-track approvals, because the used to be complaints about delayed -- there used to be complaints about delayed processes and multiple layers of approval. we want to fast-track that, and the united states can be a great partner in this endeavor. daniel: ambassador, let me give you a chance to reiterate for our audience, especially online, we are doing this on february 20, 21, and there is lots of stuff in the news. can you reiterate -- you said earlier about you are optimistic about the future of pakistan. can you give us a parting message for this audience? we will take q&a, but i want to give you a chance to reiterate the message you want to leave for this audience. amb. khan: as a matter of fact,

i remain confident as a citizen, as the representative of pakistan in the united states, that pakistan has a bright future, and it is because of its population and because of its rich resources. when you have that combination, that interface, we are bound to succeed. other countries have succeeded. you are taking the example of indonesia and many european countries, many emerging countries. pakistan is an emerging country, an emerging economy. it used to be a front tier market, but now it has transitioned into an emerging economy with strength. why do people perceive pakistan as not so developed? it's because of our dysfunctional taxation system, and our income is not fully reflected. because of this distortion, we are not perceived to be what we are. as a matter of fact, i referred

to 42% of the middle class, that would be 80 million to 90 million people, who are the proper class, and 4% upper-middle-class, and 38% middle-class. then of course there would be low middle-class. i also referred to elimination of poverty. what i want to say, demographic cohorts matter. it is a modern country, as ambassador raphel mentioned. we are an english-speaking nation, we communicate with the rest of the world. we have all the mechanisms in place. and we are poised to take off. that is where my confidence stems from. daniel: well, i share it, ambassador, and it is one reason i keep working with ambassador raphel on this topic, because i share your view. perception is a lagging indicator with much of the reality you have just described

and the potential of the country, so i really appreciate you -- amb. khan: can i -- very quickly. i mentioned it on many other occasions, that during the war on terror we suffered from reputational damage, and it persists somehow. we have to address that. pakistan is not a thrilling -- you go to pakistan, i invite everybody to come pakistan, we invite congressmen and senators to come to pakistan and when they come back there perceptions are totally transformed. businesses, when they go there they are ready to do business. i would say that to change perceptions, we need to accelerate the pace of people-to-people exchanges. we also need to sort of make a conscious effort to change these perceptions, because to change

perceptions you need to know each other, you need to sort of have a kind of relationship -- you should inject trust in your relationship. i think that some conscious effort should be made to correct this misperception about pakistan. daniel: i think like china in this way, the people's republic of china, i think covid got in the way of some of this. one time i was in pakistan in 2019, and i'm thinking of this audience of travelers, many of them have not been to pakistan since covid. i encourage those who are friends of pakistan to make 2024 the year to visit pakistan. amb. khan: i think that is a great invitation, and i extend this invitation to u.s. well. daniel: thank you, ambassador. let me take one question from the audience. this gentleman here. name and -- >> in 1979, a mob assaulted our

embassy in islamabad following a false report that we were behind an attack on the mosque in mecca. i'm looking at what is going on in the middle east and gaza, our own confrontation with yemen, and i wonder, could that have an effect on the domestic situation in pakistan. i'm less concerned about the government, government relations between pakistan, but the effect this would have on domestic political opinion in pakistan. amb. khan: in your question, the situation in palestine and gaza would affect relations between pakistan and the united states? daniel: that's how i took it. amb. khan: all right, right now, candidly speaking, we are preoccupied with the results of our elections. we are preoccupied with the formation of the new government. that is the priority. i don't think that this has come up between the two sites. of course the united states has

stated its position and we have stated our position on palestine and the prosecution of war there. so that's true. but at the same time, i think our position on palestine remains principled, anchored in the united nations security council resolutions. but right now we have different sets of priorities in pakistan. i think it should not directly or indirectly affect our relations with the united states. daniel: all right, i'm cognizant of the time, ambassador. i really appreciate you coming today. i hope to get to pakistan this year. i really appreciate you coming to visit. as i said at the beginning, i want you to consider csis second home in washington. i'm grateful to the folks who came out today. i thank my friend and colleague

ambassador raphel for being here. and please join me in thanking the pakistani ambassador to the u.s. [applause] thanks a