>> talking about the project a conflict between russia and ukraine. the director of the university of virginia discusses campaign 2024 and other political news of the day. washington journal starts now. host: good morning and welcome to you washington journal.

former president donald trump is valuing -- rallying the political world. his gop opponents are standing up for the party and the former president at the moment. what impact will trump's current legal troubles have on his base? does trump's indictment affect the vote? this question is for republicans only. if your answer is yes, it will affect your 2024 vote, we want to hear you. if your answer is no, it will not impact your vote, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003.

and we are always meeting on social media and facebook.com and twitter. you can follow us on instagram. once again, former president trump has been indicted on 37 counts, and he is still out on the campaign trail, running for the republican nomination for president. in an interview with politico, he has said that he does not plan on dropping out. reading a couple paragraphs from that article. he vowed to continue running for president, even if he were to be convicted as part of the 37 count indictment that was issued against him this week. i will never leave, trump said in an interview aboard his plane. if i would have left, i would have left prior to the rizzo

race. trump is not legally prohibited from running for president, but such a bid would nevertheless provide a massive stress test for the country's political and legal system. harsh criticisms were leveled and argued that the case against him was politically motivated. these are degenerates that are after me, he said. he does not plan on dropping out of the presidential race for the republican nomination. at a campaign even in georgia, he last stopped at the justice department. here is what former president trump had to say.

mr. trump: this is a political hit job. republicans are treated much differently than democrats. these are the same people who caused the catastrophe. you know what i am talking about. jack smith. what do you think his name used to be? it sounds so innocent. he is deranged, but he is the one who caused the catastrophe with the irs, one of the worst things to happen in this country in many years, going after evangelicals, christians and great americans of faith. they had to pay at and they had to pay up dearly for it, when they got caught. this is the same guy, deranged jack smith. i watched him go up and talk. he was shaking. he was so scared.

he did not want to be there because ultimately, these are cowards. they are cowards. he is a big trump hater. his wife is even more of a trump hater. he is a bad trump hater and she is a trump hater. the people look at biden and he is a nice man. he had classified documents. he is trying to prevent them from seeing it. that is obstruction. .

get him out. host: former president trump is leading in the polls for the republican nomination for president. let's look at the real politics average that shows that trump is at 53.2% when republicans are asked, who should be there nomination to run against president biden? you see ron desantis at 24.4 percent and everyone else is in the single-digit, but right now, more than half republicans pulled say that donald trump will be their choice to run against president biden 2024. we want to know from you whether you think this indictment will affect your vote.

calling from council bluffs, iowa, he says yes, it will affect his vote. caller: it will not affect the votes. with all the trump haters calling in, i have one thing to say to them. he is back and you just poured gasoline on the fire. biden is going down. even if he happened to go to prison, he can run the country from the prison. but they have been going after him for seven years. this is a two tiered justice system. they have been going after him. they are all a bunch of trump haters and they are scared to death that he is going to run and if he does, he will get the nomination and he will win.

for all those voters, there is even more of us. host: let's go to joe calling from florida. he also says it will not affect his vote. caller: when i say it will not affect my little, even though they have indicted him and i am a republican, it will not change my the, even if they were to convict him. i still believe in what his platform is, so it did not change how i feel about him. i do not know how that will affect other people. host: what conversations are you having with fellow republicans? are you seeing people out there

who are wavering at all because of this? caller: i'm trying to stay as moderate as possible. i think it is having an unintended effect on some diehard trump supporters. it is fueling them. it is throwing fuel on the fire. i would be curious as to how it affects other moderates like myself. i'm still holding steady and it has not fueled me to support him anymore or less. host: did you vote for president trump in the previous election? caller: i did. host: are you supporting him for the gop nomination over the other republican candidates? caller: as of right now, i am. i have not heard enough from the other candidates because, again,

this is the unintended effect. trump is basically taking over the news cycle. it is a little tough for his opponents to try win. host: let's go to jim calling from new york. they say it right? i thought i remembered it from my time in new york. this indictment will not affect you are 20 for vote? caller: it probably will. i was leaning towards desantis or scott, but now i am firmly with trump. it has encouraged me to stand up with him because i feel like there is a dual system.

there is also a dual system in the reporting. a huge story is coming out and i do not know what c-span is doing, not covering it. joe biden has been accused of bribery. you guys are not even covering it. host: first of all, are you saying that you originally were for desantis or scott, but because of the indictment, you are now going to vote for trump? caller: yes. i feel like they are framing him. he i feel like he is the only one who can get rid of the deep state going on and correcting the doj. they are totally way out.

why are we not talking about joe biden's bribery -- bribery scheme? you guys are not covering it either. where -- host: where are the papers we are supposed to cover? caller: the congress has come out and shown. you are in line with the new york times and all the other fake news, but congress has come out and said that there is paperwork. host: let's just keep going. calling from north carolina, debbie. go ahead. will this indictment affect your 2024 vote? caller: never. if i could vote, i would vote for trump to be the next

president for as long as he lives. i will never understand why we have not indicted biden and his son. and all these other democrats that are corrupt and totally out of it. i have never seen this country -- i have never seen this country in such a mess as this place is now. host: did you vote for the president -- for president trump in the last election? i guess she dropped off. let's go to pennsylvania. robin, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: great. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to call and say, it will not change my vote. they have been going after donald trump since he came down the escalators and what he is

doing -- what they are doing to him is a travesty. i'm sticking with him and i will stick with him until he cannot run anymore. republicans six together and it him back in office. host: at a campaign event in greensboro, north carolina. here is what he had to say. mr. trump: this persecution is a travesty of justice. think of it. this is like third country stuff. he tried to put his opponent, who is leading him by a lot, trying to put him in jail over following a civil -- this is a simple thing. the presidential records act -- it is all under the clinton case.

that is where they sued clinton and he ended up winning. it is all under that, but this is more like stalinist russia or communist china that we are dealing with. these people have reached a level of trump arrangement syndrome that nobody thought was possible. and i never thought that this could happen in america. host: let's see what some of our social media followers are saying. here is one that says cannot support trump. there are 40 million supporters who will stand by him matter what. this is what truly terrifies the gop. if he does not get the nomination, he will tell his voters not to vote in 2020 four

and the republicans will suffer massive losses across the nation. insanity. another says, trump is one of the best presidents we have ever had. another says, the first time i voted was for ronald reagan. i will never vote in another election if trump gets by with this treasonous behavior. a treatment says, he is not electable. i cannot vote for him in the primaries. defeating democrats, not trump's ego is the main objective. this question is for republicans only. does the trump indictment effect you were 24 vote? if your answer is yes, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000.

if the answer is no, it will not impact your vote, the number is (202) 748-8001. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. and we are always on twitter and facebook. let's talk to rose, calling for him new york. go ahead, rose. caller: i think the democratic party should watch out for democrats like me and there are a ton of us that will be voting republican. host: does his indictment impact your vote? caller: he is going to get my vote. i admire him for his coverage and fortitude, going through this. host: let's go to columbia,

south carolina. good morning. do you think these indictments will impact your 2024 vote? caller: yes. host: in what way? did you vote for president in the previous election? caller: no. host: food if you vote for? -- who did you vote for? caller: i voted -- no one else at the nomination, so i voted primary. host: putin you vote for in the primary? -- who did you vote for in the primary? caller: trump. host: how will this impact your vote? caller: people are being naive about the fact.

they are allowing one man to divide us, and it is wrong. people need to open their eyes and pick someone who is not deranged, someone who is sensible and moderate. we cannot do this. host: have you chosen to's -- have you chosen someone to support in the 24 election? who are you going to support? caller: kamala harris. caller: good morning. my vote will be for trump. host: does the indictment affect how you are thinking about former president trump at all? caller: it just really ticked me

off that there is so much corruption on the others. and i do not know where our lawmakers are in this country that lets the other side, the democratic party gets away with treason. they hunt this man like a dog, but he has bulldog tenacity, and i am praying to god that he will be strengthened, and i'm praying to god and every believer out there, pray that they get exposed, this corruption gets exposed, and they will be pulled down. host: let's go to patty, calling from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. i am a trump supporter i always

have been and always will be. what they have done to our president, who i still consider our president, is disgusting. our voters have been deprived of taking out this president. the department of justice, fbi, biotin, his administration, all behind it. we have watched it for six years and we have had enough of this. to allow this president to do what he did, protect his country, love the people, we respect him and for anybody, whether you are democrat -- i do not care. you have to see this for what it is. if they look, in order to see what this idiot as president has done -- americans, wake up.

host: are you still there? caller: i think we lost her. let's go to our next caller from new jersey. --host: are you still there? i think we lost her. let's go to our next caller from new jersey. caller: i did vote for trump both times. i would consider myself a moderate conservative. quite frankly, it is a culmination of things that have happened during trump's president z, as well as what has been happening since then.

it really -- i'm considering not voting at all in 2024 because i'm not in support of donald trump in 2024. that is certainly not an endorsement of president biden, that's for sure. the whole one sidedness of investigations of what has been happening with the doj has been discouraging and i really feel as though we truly are in control with our vote. that is really discouraging. at this particular time. that is all i had to say. host: have you chosen a

candidate to support in the 2024 primary echo -- primary? caller: that is a good question. i would consider a candidate. scott, i what's here little bit more from a few people on the others. i do not have a problem. i have voted for democrats and republicans. we all get thrown into one box the other. also on the republican side, i have probably looked at desantis as well. host: many republicans are still supporting donald trump, including republicans in

congress. republicans in the senate seem to be taking a little bit more time to say what they are going to say. newspaper has a story between the senate republicans and house republicans. senate republican leaders are staying quiet about former president trump's indictment on 37 criminal charges, letting him twist in the wind and break with leaders who have rushed to trump's defense. mcconnell was careful not to repeat his name in public but i said to colleagues that he wants his party to turn the base on the former president. the senate gop leaders top deputy also have indicated that

they do not want trump to win the party 2024 presidential nomination. they are letting trump's legal troubles play out without coming to his defense. in contrast, speaker kevin mccarthy and steve scalise, who both issued statements criticizing the justice department before the indictment was unsealed to the public. they want him to go away, so they would not be upset if this is what kicks him out. that comes from the hills -- the hill newspaper. once again, we want to know whether this indictment affects your 2024 vote, whether in the primary or the general election. this question is for republicans only.

let's go back and talk to danny. good morning. caller: appreciate you taking my call. i have been trying to get on for the last three or four days. last few days is nothing but trump. i cannot believe we have not discussed about joe and the $10 million his family got paid. they should not let the democrats get away with stuff like that. document when joe biden was a senator -- only the president should be able to have that declassified information. it just shocked me.

it is everything but the kitchen sink. outside of each letter are true representation under my president. i made that shirt myself and i will be sending it to trump. he will get my vote for the third time. host: let's go so the next caller from lucerne, california. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: thank you for allow me to be on the show with you. i appreciate it. it will not ruin my vote at all. trump is the only person i know who could save this country from where it is at. biotin is completely destroying it.

hello? -- biden is completely destroying it. hello? host: you are still on. caller: last time i voted in my life was model reagan and if i voted again, i would be voting for trump completely. he is the only person who is ever going to make this world worth living in. caller: did you vote -- host: did you vote for trump in the last election? or did you not go yeah -- or did you not vote? caller: i did not vote. it did not seem like it would make a difference, but it seems like it would now because the world is messed up from biotin. it is worth it now because it seems like it might make a difference. host: all right.

let's go to jared calling from wilmington, delaware. caller: good morning. i want everybody to take a second. the last caller said the -- sent donald trump is the only president who would make the world worth living in. if you do not see this as a cold, you are blind. i would press the button hard for somebody else. nuclear codes, nuclear secrets, these things -- he had them stored in a bathroom. he asked the attorneys, could we lie? could we destroy documents? it was an open and shut case. they have to -- they have

transcripts. it is over. give it up. host: jared, who do you plan to vote for in the primary, if not president trump? caller: i think nikki haley had a great town hall. she was really empathetic towards women. on the abortion thing, she said she does not judge anyone from wanting an abortion, the same way she does not want to be judged for being pro-life. i think most americans are in the middle. i think most americans are independent and can go down the middle. the divisiveness of donald trump and putting themselves as an enemy against joe biden and against the media and the state, it is over guys. give it up. go back to being republican. if you want to be conservative, be a conservative. you do not have to be a maga

supporter. you do not have to say that trump is the end-all be-all for the country. he has brainwashed people. host: so what if you have to choose between him and joe biden in the general election in 2024? do you vote for president trump or for president biden? caller: if donald trump or ron desantis is a nominee, it will be going to biotin. it is that simple. republicans need to wake up. host: let's go to conrad calling from philadelphia. caller: good morning. i was listening to some people calling. the bottom line is this. hello? host: we can hear you. keep going. caller: what i am saying is, the

problem is, when donald trump ran against biotin -- you cannot win the presidency on all republican votes. you need democrats. the republican party did not that trump. no democrats -- the party told on donald trump. it was not joe biden. everyone in front of the grand jury works for donald trump. if you want to get mad, get mad at the republican. host: all right. let's go to kelly calling from myrtle beach, south carolina. good morning.

caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i will make quick points. one, i voted for ben carson first and then i voted for trump because i could not handle joe biden. this time, i am still undecided. nikki haley is great. there are so many that i want to learn more about. all of the shenanigans going on, on both sides of the aisle is just wearing the american public down. we do not trust the vote after the last election. it is really scary. i know a lot of people have said that. i am not a conspiracy theorist, i just do not like all the political stuff going on. all of the internet companies, the way they have affected social media.

there are just too many things going on that make the american public not believe what is happening. it is crazy. this last indictment with them ignoring joe biden, hillary clinton -- so many people have the same thing going on, they are only going for trump. it makes me realize that both parties, the democrat and republican are doing anything and everything they can to keep trump off the ticket. it makes me want to vote for him more. if they would just leave everything alone and do it the normal way, let everybody have integrity. maybe he would not have such a massive following. but everybody out there who do not trust government being pushed further and further towards trump. host: what make up your mind for

the republican primary? what would be your tipping point to make you decide to vote for trump or someone else? caller: i want to hear the debates. i want to hear what each person stands for. i have always admired nikki haley. i have always admired tim scott. i wish ben carson was running again. even pompeo. even him. there are so many qualified individuals who know about foreign policy and the way that washington runs. the biggest thing that has made 70 people on both sides of the aisle against trump is because he came from just business and did not know how busy -- government runs. he basically lumped them

altogether. honestly, you could see both sides of the aisle treating him the same way, like they do not trust him because he does not play by their playbook. host: other gop presidential candidate have come out and supported former president trump, even though some of them are competing against him. former vice president mike pence campaign and green borough, north carolina, and this is what he said about the federal indictment of former president trump. mr. pentz: -- mr. pence: i am deeply troubled to see this indictment forward. the capacity to further divide the country at a time when the american people are struggling like never before. at a time when the world is

becoming more dangerous by the hour. as much as the media begins its latest rush judgment, a few words to my fellow republicans. i think our leaders would do well to return to anne sacoolas in moments like this. the first principle is this. it is important to remember that in america, you are innocent until proven guilty. [applause] the former president, like every other american is entitled. the american people have a right to know the bases of this decision. i think i was the first in the country to call on the attorney general to unseal the indictment . today i am calling on the attorney general to stand before the american people and explain

why this was necessary, and his words. stop hiding behind the special counsel and stand before the american people and explain why this indictment forward. host: here is some social media texts from our followers. does the trump indictment impact you are 2024 bill? i have said before that trump is not my preference, but if he is the nominee, i will vote for him. another says, note how the facebook bigots are standing by him. he could shoot someone and not lose one vote. another tweet says, if you scratch him off the list, there is no republican who could win a general election. i will bet on that. one last text says trump was the

best president we ever had. i am trump. our question is for republicans only. does the trump indictment impact word 20 for vote? regina, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i have been a republican voter my entire life. but i did not vote for donald trump in 2016 or 2020. it pained me not to vote for my own party, but i think people need to learn how to do their research on these candidates and they need to get their fax street. to mike pence, i want to hear from every single candidate. if donald trump gets indicted,

are you going to pardon him? that is what will determine my vote for whoever the candidate is. i think joe biden has done a lot. i do not think he should be the next person to run, so it will be a difficult decision 2024 and i think all these nominees have a hard job ahead of them. host: does anybody stand out to you in the republican field? caller: as a person in florida, i would never vote for ron desantis. he is too radical and too far left for me. pulling books off shelves, the six-week ban, transgender, do not say gay, he is too much for me. no, i would go with chris christie based off of what i have heard him say, saying he would not pardon don arndt --

donald trump. host: if former president trump gets the nomination, would you vote for him in the general election against joe biden? caller: no. i would not vote for donald trump because he is not a man of integrity. he has lagged to the american people. he has gotten people riled up. he had the opportunity to do good things and maybe for some republicans, he did do good things. so for that, he was a success. for big business and the tax cuts, he was a success. he gave them exactly what they wanted, but i think you need to remember like the previous caller said, there is more than just republican to vote for the president, and the president has to represent all the people, not just the ones who voted for him.

that is what we have to remember. we have to learn how to work across the aisles. marjorie taylor greene -- they have to go. we have to get them out of office because they are crazy and they are not doing anything. we have to get back to people that have a brain, who knew -- you know what they are doing and who truly want to serve their constituents and not their own ego and social media. host: let's go to paul. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not know where you got those democrat callers coming in , but the only thing i would like to say is, it has affected the way i am going to vote because there is a big ticket all away from president, down to

the school board, and i would not vote for a democrat if my mother was running. thank you. host: do you plan to vote for former president trump in the republican primary? caller: yes, i will. host: this indictment does not affect your vote at all? caller: no. get a brain and then you will see what it is all about. it started seven years ago and it has not quit. host: all right. let's go to robert calling from richmond, maine. go ahead. caller: good morning. it will affect my vote. it will make me vote for him even more. if i get mail order balance, i will mail them in and i will do

it early, if i can. i will help him get elected because the last seven years with joe biden has been ridiculous. host: i assume you mean the last two years. caller: that's true, but he has been raising his money for the last seven years and now he is back in power, raking in more money, presumably. he probably has been just raking in money, so it is time that he goes. host: let's go to bill, calling from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i'm definitely upset about this indictment for trump. can we really prosecute a

president because he had some papers in his office? pins and biden have papers. it shows -- it just shows how unequal the whole system is. it makes me want to vote for trump even more. host: if another candidate gets the republican nomination and not president trump, would you still vote for that candidate or would he hold out your vote? caller: if that candidate is running against biden were hairs , he definitely has my vote. host: so even if he does not get the republican nomination, you will still vote for whoever the republican nominee is? caller: i would vote for a fire hydrant instead of joe biden. host: ok.

let's go to rhode island. caller: good morning. i grew up in a jfk democrat family and i do not know where that jfk democrat party when. it is nothing what it is today. no one in history has been scrutinized and vetted more than donald trump. they have torn every part of him inside out, in between the russia papers that were proven to be outright lies, as truth by the uncensored talking heads today. those people are not informed. this is how ill-informed people are. has it changed my vote? yes. my vote -- i did not vote for him before. i have not voted for a long time. i'm looking for that jfk

democrat again, and it is more in trump and rfk junior then it is anyone else. it is either rfk or trump, and trump has stood -- look at this man. he is going through hell and he is not backing down. he was a millionaire. we knew where his money came from. where did the politicians get all of their millions? where does he get all of his billions and millions? where did these politicians get their money? went -- we know where trump did because it is out in the open. i'm just upset by the whole thing. host: let's talk to steve calling from florida.

caller: it is amazing. i was watching c-span on friday and i was watching an analyst, fox, nbc. i'm watching all the station. doesn't anyone in this nation understand the system going on? it could be ronald reagan or anybody. i watched the reading of all these charges. no one is ever charged that the republicans. it is 18 to bot would system and you are ruining our country. everyone is on the bandwagon, but no one is looking at the facts of what is going on in this country. we are being destroyed. the vote for biden is nothing. the country is being destroyed.

people are not understanding that and it is a shame. all these people should be put in prison. speaking about republicans making money. i am a conservative, a constitutionalist. there is nothing in the constitution for the fbi to be protected or for the cia. there is nothing that has to deal with the charges. they date back to george washington. i do not care what the pundit says on tv. i am watching abc legalnaly on your station sit tre and swear up and down that it has nothing to do with politics. trump is nothing. the documents are the point. you have charges of $5 million bribery charges. no one is saying a word.

i do not see anyone saying a word. host: let's go to maria calling from fairfax, virginia. caller: yes. are these all -- [indiscernible] on the last election, i voted for joe biden and right now, i am undecided, but i know i will not vote for donald trump. [indiscernible] i get the point because people think that we are all ignorant.

it is horrible. the u.s. looks like the most dangerous country in the world. it is horrible. it was horrible to explain to a child. he called the kkk good people. it just -- this is not a country that i am proud in. it is horrible. i'm definitely not supporting donald trump and i really hope that no other candidates, if they get elected, pardon him.

host: florida governor ron desantis complained that the standards for justice needs to be enforced equally. here is what he had to say. mr. desantis: our founding fathers would have absolutely predicted the weaponization that we have seen with these agencies because when you do not have constitutional accountability, human nature is such that they will abuse their power and no one has held them accountable. when i was in congress, i remember hillary had the emails that were classified. as a naval officer, i would have taken classified to my apartment and i would have been court-martialed in a hot minute. is there a different standard for a secretary of state versus a former republican president?

there needs to be one standard of justice. enforce it on everybody and make sure that we understand the rules. you cannot have one faction weaponizing against other factions they do not like. there are high-profile examples but also examples of ordinary people who may not get the same headlines. a pro-life advocate might have officials storming their house. you might have parents going to a school board meeting surveilled by the fbi. the weaponization of these agencies strikes at the heart of what it means to have a free society, and it is not just affecting people at the top but throughout the country. host: we want to know if the trump indictment impacts your 2024 vote. we are asking this of republicans only. let's go to our caller from

bloomington, california. good morning. caller: i would like to know why x president trump does not go by the rules to regulations that everybody else has to go through. why is that? host: does this mean it will affect your vote in the republican primary? caller: yes, it would. host: right now, who are you supporting? caller: i would not support any -- anybody right now. the country is going to hell. host: you are not going to vote at all? caller: not at all. host: let's go to kathleen. kathleen, i'm pretty sure i screwed that name up completely.

had he pronounce the name? caller: you did well. host: i figured i would get close. caller: very close. no worries at all. this new activity will certainly stop me from voting for donald trump. i'm so concerned about the state of our country. we need both sides of the aisle to put politics away and started to collaborate. the awful news about the $5 million in the biden administration is awful with no repercussion. the reason i will vote for trump is, his attitude is just not humble enough. get us a great candidate. we need a republican leader. the democrats just do not have a business mind. they just do not. host: who are you supporting

right now? caller: nikki haley. with some good support, with a goodness sense that i think she lacks a bit, she could be a great leader. host: let's go to lloyd calling from pennsylvania. good morning. are you there? caller: yes, sir. i am a donald trump supporter. when i saw him on the apprentice, i did not like him, but when i saw his messages from 1980, he has not changed since. i like his message. it sticks with me and i think it should stick with all americans. i love america and what they are doing to him is a complete sham. it is disgusting and i think biden should be in prison along with hillary and maybe some of

our past presidents like obama, the clintons, bush -- it is just so disgusting what they are doing. with all these gay rights and everything, it is disgusting. host: if former president trump does not get the nomination, who do you think the republicans should put forward? if president trump does not get the gop nomination, will you still vote for the gop in the general election? are you still there? i think we lost him. let's go to carla, calling from memphis, tennessee. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i would vote for president trump and i feel that he is what we need.

we do not need a republican in the senate. we need a businessman. host: if he does not get the gop nomination, and use the -- do you still support who they will put forward? caller: i do not though democrat. it would be republicans all the way. host: let's go to james from georgia. go ahead. caller: i want to ask the american people, i.e. you better off today than you were years ago? the leader of our country makes a big difference. everybody should be responsible for their own finances and whatever but if you just look at the facts of what has been happening, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out

that we are a lot better off. i do not like trump's personality sometimes, but i love his policies. i understand now, being an older man at 66, nobody is perfect. host: we would like to thank all of our callers who called in for the first hour. coming up, we will turn our attention to the ukraine and russia conflict and the much anticipated -- we will speak about the state of the war and the pension truly -- potentially problematic -- we will discuss the political fallout former president trump's indictment. we will be right back. ♪

>> unite on q and a in his book paved paradise, henry go far because of the united states and the negative impact people's it has on traffic and the environment. >> i have read dozens of studies and they say basically the same thing, which is, this neighborhood, this town does have enough parking. it is not properly priced, not shared between different uses in people do not know where it is. that speaks for the parking situation in this country as a whole. it is mismanaged and has not been thought through. when we begin to think about how much parking there is, you realize there is a lot of

opportunity to better use the parking we have now instead of forcing everyone who wants to build an apartment building or open a restaurant to build 10 new parking spaces, tear down the building next door, etc. >> henry, brevard with his book paved paradise tonight on c-span's q&a. you can listen to q and a and all of our podcasts on our free c-span now app. ♪ ♪ >> weekends bring you book tv featuring leading authors discussing the latest nonfiction books. former fbi special agent thomas baker shares hisook the fall of the fbi, where he gues americans have lost faith in the bureau due to its politicization by former director of -- robert muller and others. on afterwards, former trump administration interior secretary david bernhardt contends the administrative state has amassed unaccountable power over the last 20 years in his book, you report to me.

he is interviewed by american enterprise institute senior fellow adam white. watch book tv every weekend on c-span two and find the full ogram schedule on book tv.org. ♪ >> a healthy democracy does not just look like this. it looks like this, where americans can see democracy at work, where citizens are truly informed, a republic thrives. get informed straight from the source on c-span. unfiltered, unbiased, word for word. from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span, powered by cable. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by rand corporations samuel charap, here to discuss the conflict between

russia and ukraine and how washington can begin to facilitate an end game through diplomacy. let's jump into it. you have an article on foreign affairs titled an unwinnable war. why do you think that neither side can declare a decisive military victory? guest: we are now 15 months into this war. we can see some structural realities coming into clearer picture. neither side has the military capabilities to completely wipe out the other sides military. at the end of this war, we are going to have two capable militaries, the ukrainian militaries with western support and the russian military and a large military that will pose a threat to each other. neither are going to be able to likely be able to achieve their territorial objective. , in ukraine's case restoring

internationally recognized borders. in russia's case, occupying the areas it is time to annex. we are going to end up most likely in a situation where there is going to be a line of contact neither side recognizes a international border. both will be in a position to impose costs on the other for the long-term if they would like. historically, those kinds of situations can lead to years long bloody and destructive wars. that is one trajectory we could be on. host: it does not sound like you have much faith in this counteroffensive that ukraine is beginning for the spring. guest: i think the counteroffensive could achieve some gains. no matter where the line of contact is, russia could continue the war. while the counteroffensive could well be important and any gains ukraine might make would be significant, the war would not end there.

that is important to keep in mind. that is not likely to be a decisive moment in the entirety of the conflict. host: i want to read a paragraph from your article and i want you to expand on it. because of the decisive military victory is unlikely, certain and games are nlonger possible given precedence of fundamental differences between scow and kiev on core issues su borders and intense grievances after some anyivilian deaths, a peace treaty or copperheads of pol settlement that normalizes relaonbetween russia and ukraine seems impossible t the two countries will be in a means a long after a war ends. what do you mean by that? host: historically, wars have ended in a number of different ways. the best case is a peace treaty where the two former belligerents normalize relations and return to sort of normal.

, we can say that is very unlikely. the return to long wars that continue. forever decisive victories are probably unlikely. cease-fires that do not resolve fundamental differences like peace treaties do. the archetypal case is the korean war. technically, the two koreas are still at war together. both north and south korea claimed the entirety of the peninsula as their own. they never had a political settlement, they never had a peace treaty. there is only a cease-fire. that cease-fire has proved durable for almost 70 years. host: since you see this as a unwinnable war for either side, you are arguing that it is time for the u.s. and western governments to step in and find a way to end it. how does it happen?

guest: what i would suggest in the short-term is that the u.s. and western governments step in and find a way to end it, but start thinking about the endgame. to devote resources to a vision of how that endgame looks and in such a way that benefits ukraine more than other kinds of outcomes. thinking about how to make a cease-fire durable, how to make ukraine economically sustainable after the fighting ends. how to make sure russia never does this again. that long-term vision for how the war in sin a way that might be more consistent with ukrainian stern government's interest is something that can start now. what can start now is a diplomatic track. we have been in the situation where diplomacy and fighting are perceived of as binary, you cannot do one while you're doing the other. historically, there have been lots of cases where you can.

what i argue in the piece is that western governments should begin with their ukrainian partners trying to develop a negotiating track to complement their efforts to put pressure on russia. on the one hand, applying pressure on the battlefield and sanctions and so on. on the other hand, having a channel of communication where you can at least start targeting about ringing this to a close at some point -- bringing this to a close at some point in the months to come. i do not expect this to be next week or next month because the ukrainians are conducting a counteroffensive. the question is what comes after that. host: our viewers can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up our regular lines. republicans, call in on (202) 748-8001. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. independents, you can call (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003.

we are a ways reading on social media -- always reading on social media and facebook.com/c-span. how willing will ukraine be to actually have any sorts of talk if they are in the middle of what they might consider a successful counteroffensive? guest: i think. think that is a very good question. historically that breeds a appetite for military operations. if you are succeeding on a battlefield, why should you stop? i think how the counteroffensive proceeds will be important in determining ukrainians willingness to engage. we need to begin to have those channels regardless of how the battlefield situation is going, not because they need to stop fighting tomorrow, but because a

negotiation track can complement what they are doing on the battlefield. ultimately, the premise of your question is right. the ukrainians will determine when this will come to an end. we can make suggestions and work with them on how certain issues, but this is their war. they are the ones fighting and dying. they will be the ones who decide when to stop. so, since the conflict began, president zelenskyy has had a range of views on the propriety of negotiations. he started being forward leaning on this and seeking a direct meeting with putin up to june of last year, he was talking about that. since then, he has basically rejected the idea of negotiation. at this point, and i think his focus is on the counteroffensive. i think we need to begin conversations that could be behind-the-scenes for now, just about how this ends in a way

that is most consistent with their interests. host: on the russian side, what will bring them to the table since as we have said, they already invaded ukraine. they annexed part of ukraine. guest: i think this has been a strategic chris hat -- strategic catastrophe for russia. on any number of metrics,, be at military economic, global reputation, their energy relations with western countries, their ability to have a modern economy and even their attempt to achieve their objective and ukraine, the initial objective was trying to overthrow the government and take the capital. that failed over a year ago. they cannot even take control of all the areas they claim to have annexed. this has been a strategic catastrophe for russia. i think that is going to be true

regardless of where the line of contact is. if you kilometers here or there is not going to change that dynamic fundamentally. i think russia does have an incentive to seek a cease-fire that hopefully can be converted into something more durable, that they might see as an operational pause. could be something where you could use that to make it a longer-term cease-fire. there are other incentives that could be considered, such as conditional sanctions release in return for withdrawal or change in russian behavior. we have a lot of leverage given the sanctions that have been imposed. with proper snapback closets and someone, you can imagine sanctions relief playing some role in incentive here. host: are there available diplomatic channels set up for these possible talks, or is this something that would be created? guest: as far as i know, there was nothing.

that is part of the reason i wrote the piece. there are lots of efforts on other issues. on this one, we have seen other countries taking the lead on diplomacy. there is a chinese peace plan. there is apparently a vatican lease -- peace plan. president lula of brazil has sent a special envoy. i think it is time the u.s. government have its own diplomatic track on this issue. we do have considerable leverage with both russia and ukraine, more so than i think either any of these other countries that have been trying to get in the mix. host: do we know the u.s. government is not doing this? are we confident the state department is not already considering were pushing forward on this? guest: there might be things i

am not aware of, but publicly acknowledged, not at the moment. host: let's let some of our viewers take part in this conversation. let's start with chuck calling from michigan on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, chuck. caller: hello? host: you are on. . caller: thank you. i am a trump voter. what i am concerned with is the majority of people i listen to are possibly concerned with other candidates and hoping they can perform what trump is already performed. every time you, hear these other candidates this aunt is talking, they are actually repeating trump. host: let me interrupt you. we are talking about ukraine and russia right now. do you have something to say on that? caller: oh.

why take risks to put someone else in office? host: all right. let's go to shelley calling from charleston, west virginia on the democratic line. good morning. caller: hello. ukraine. why should they give up their territory for a peace treaty? how do we even know that putin will honor that peace treaty? we do not. , plus -- plus, putin and his country, the military has brought on ukrainian citizens, civilians.

why do we even think he will honor that? one more thing. if there are people out there that think that president trump is not the biggest crook of a president we have ever had, they are not paying attention. host: let's tackle the ukraine question. guest: ok. on the question of giving up land, and i think that is a very good question. no one -- i am not certainly suggesting ukraine renounce any of its internationally recognized territory. they should seek full restoration of territorial integrity. the question is how. if it becomes clear it is not possible militarily to do so, then there are other means. we saw in the case for example of divided germany, where

essentially you had a peaceful unification of a country that had been divided by the iron curtain for 40 years. these kinds of things are possible. if it is not possible militarily, it could be possible politically, diplomatically. the question putin would comply with this is a good one. there are no guarantees. he has invaded ukraine multiple times now, it is possible he would do so again. in the peace, i make the case for more significant u.s. security commitments to ukraine that might deter him from doing so again. also, i argue for robust cease-fire reinforcement mechanisms like those that exist in korea, where there is a deviancy -- dnz, and a number of

measures that have kept militaries apart now for nearly 70 years. with a combination of both deterrence and cease-fire maintenance mechanisms that make violations difficult, i think we have a better chance if those measures weren't in place. on the question of war crimes, pursuing accountability for war crimes and pursuing -- are not incompatible. i think the accountability for war crimes is some thing that should be pursued, regardless of how the battlefield or negotiation tracks proceed. host: you brought up korea a couple of times. describe how an armistice would work in this situation. guest: so, there are important differences. no historical analogy is perfect.

in the korean case, the u.s. was doing a lot of the fighting. u.s. military were the chief negotiators essentially with the north koreans and the chinese on the armistice terms. but essentially, what we are talking about is a durable cease-fire. an agreement to stop fighting and to recognize the line of contact as one that will not be breached. some withdrawal of forces from the areas around that line, and mechanisms in place the they third party interspersed forces otherwise known as peacekeepers, or other kinds of cease-fire mechanisms that we have seen the effect -- be effective in other conflict to keep the sides apart. that is essentially what an arm assist is. it does not deal with the political question of normalizing relations between the countries.

it is essentially a cease-fire with mechanisms in place to make sure the cease-fire sticks. host: does an armistice work without american boots on the ground in ukraine? guest: i think it can. having forces that a third-party forces might be useful in the context of a cease-fire. i think american military playing that role might be problematic for a number of reasons. you can imagine some other international organization be it the u.n. or other country claimed that role. i think the biden administration has been clear from the outset that american boots on the ground and ukraine is nothing they are keen to avoid, so as to avoid a direct conflict with russia. in the context of a durable cease-fire, just as we did with korea when the u.s.-south korea mutual --, of the aftermath of

the war commitments can be made to ukraine that will make the piece potentially more durable after the piece is agreed. in other words, potentially threatening american involvement next time around might be a deterrent to putin trying to do this again, if it comes to an end. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to jodi from bradenton, florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am calling from the friendly city of bradenton, florida in the sunshine state of florida. i voted for trump again -- i voted for trump before, i will vote for him again. i know he is crazy, but he is honest. host: we are actually talking about ukraine and russia right now. do you have something to say about that?

guest: i have been holding for. two hours host: we have moved on to russia and ukraine. do you have anything to say on that? caller: we should have stayed out of it. host: all right. let's go to stanley calling from south carolina on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, good morning. how you doing? host: we are doing great. go ahead. caller: i am calling from south carolina. host: ok. we are talking about russia and ukraine. caller: when i hear he go there to ukraine and kill the people, that is not right. i voted for the democrats. host: ok.

does the u.s. pushing for any time of diplomatic -- type of diplomatic solution indicate distrust in ukraine's ability to fight off russia? guest: i would not advocate any sort of push. this has to be done with ukraine, not to ukraine. this would have to be done in collaboration with the u.s. allies. we would have to have consensus among the u.s. ukraine and u.s. allies to pursue this track. i think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. we should be able to support ukrainians militarily since the counteroffensive and get going on this track that should complement those course of efforts, not contradict them. it has to be managed quite

delicately, given the potential perception that would be a change of attack. i do not think it needs to be. we can keep doing what we are doing on these other issues on military assistance to ukraine and so on while also pursuing opening up diplomatic channels and beginning a conversation about the endgame. host: here is what president biden said in the new york times back in may. america's goal is straightforward. we want to give -- a prosperous ukraine with a mean to deter against further aggression. as president zelenskyy of ine has ultimately this war willefinitively and through diplomacy. every negotiation reflects the facts on the ground. we have moved quickly to send ukraine weaponry and ammunition so they can fight on the battlefield and be in the strongest possible position at

the negotiating table. what does that mean for the potential of the united states right now? guest: that was in may of 2022. that has been the biden administration's position since the early days of the conflict. essentially acknowledging there will at some point be negotiations, but that in the meantime, the united states needs to do all it can to make as mini battlefield gains as possible. to use that as leverage to achieve a better outcome when the negotiations begin. the problem is, then negotiations have not begun in any substantive capacity. we are now at a point where relative territorial gains could improve ukraine's negotiating position, but they could also produce outcomes that are not particularly good for ukraine. for example, ukraine had

liberated a significant amount of territory in the fall when it had two successful operations in different regions than the ones occurring right now. then, russia became -- began its campaign with its drone attacks and so on. the question of territory is important, but it is not the only one. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to john calling from virginia on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. i want to ask the desk, how much money are we spending in ukraine budget wise, this war? we went years in that war. we have lost a lot of soldiers. we spend so much money. at the end of the day, taliban took back the country. you have to understand one thing. there is no way ukraine can beat russia.

we need to figure out how we can solve this problem. the problem that we have is, we want ukraine to have a nuclear weapon close to russia while they asking to join the nato. that is not going to happen. we know that. we remember, we refuse russia to go to cuba to build a nuclear weapon. canada stop that. realistically, our soldiers are everywhere. this country led a lot of veterans out there who have no place to live. our economy is going down. think about one minute, it is so ridiculous that we have, i do not mind helping ukraine. everything has to have a limit. you comparing to countries that incomparable war wise. this need to stop. we need to figure out how we can

solve this gang mentality we have, that we have countries invading countries and making wars and at the end of the day, we leave those people disasters. look at venezuela. look at el salvador. look at iraq. we destroyed those country and never help them back again. host: go ahead and respond. guest: it is important to note the contrast with afghanistan. there are no u.s. forces on the ground. there are no u.s. forces taking casualties. that is a major difference, the u.s. military is not doing the fighting. that said, the u.s. assistance has been quite effective in allowing ukrainians to successfully defend their own territory. i think the russian military, the russian invasion would have been, might have been more successful had the u.s. and its

allies not provided the unprecedented levels of assistance to ukraine that we have. that assistance has been significant. we are talking tens of billions of dollars in military assistance, as well as budgetary assistance because ukrainian governments tax revenues have fallen off a cliff since the war began given the collapse in economic activity. but, we are in this case assisting a sovereign country and defending its own territory rather than being on the ground as a occupying force in the context of a country that is far from our own border. i think the situation is quite different in this case. that said, it is a significant -- we are talking about significant sums and an unprecedented effort to assist another country. we are probably talking the closest example would be lynn

least during the second world war in terms of providing military capabilities to allies. host: you co-authored a book called everyone loses, the ukrainian -- four post sovereign eurasia. one of our social media followers wants you to take a wider look and compare the ukraine russia conflict to other prolonged conflict such as northern ireland and the palestinian-israeli hostility? guest: that is a good question. in the context of northern ireland, we are essentially talking about a civil conflict within the same country that was not an invasion of a internationally recognized border. again, with palestine and israel, the situation is very complicated. we are talking particularly in

the middle eastern cases about long-term conflict that do not have resolutions and turn hot every once in a while. i guess there are other cases where conflicts could completely go cold, even though there is no political resolution. cyprus is an example, where there has been a essentially almost 50 years now of no fighting, but there is no political resolution. there is an unrecognized or only by turkey recognized entity that controls north of the country. there has not been a peace treaty. there are other cases globally were conflict persist without full-fledged resolution. those kinds of peace treaties have become more rare in recent decades. host: in your piece, you specifically talk about the armistice top during the korean war.

were there any lessons then we can apply to now? guest: i think there are a number. it was not easy, we are talking two years of negotiations. i produced a document of 40 pages, during that time many of the u.s. casualties in the korean war war incurred during the period of negotiations. there were several hundred meetings of the commission that ended up producing the armistice . this is hard and will take time. even if diplomacy starts tomorrow, we should not expect results anytime soon. i think that is an important lesson to keep in mind. the other is that the mechanisms put in place, it was not just an agreement to stop fighting. there was an elaborate dnz, heavily military zone that separated the party. having those mechanisms in place is important to preserve an

agreement to stop to bring the guns to silence. those are lessons i would take away. four ukraine long-term, south korea has emerged as an economic powerhouse and a thriving democracy, going p through a difficulteriod in the 19 --going through a difficult period in the 1960's and 1970's. ukraine regardless of where the line of contact is, something -- can still transform itself into a success story. that is another lesson from the korean case. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to patrick calling from hampton, georgia on the independent line. patrick, good morning. caller: this conflict since

2014, i think it was 2015, 2016, they had mentioned agreements. mentioned agreements were supposedly -- were supposed to put an end to hostility. the ukrainian military has been bombing the donbas since 2014. from what i understand, the reason why serbia was bombed was because killings were on most people -- is the same thing in yugoslavia. we did the same thing in libya. the united states killing their own citizens. in ukraine, they supported poroshenko and they support

zelenskyy now. bombing their own people, killing their own people. ukraine violated the agreements. janco even admitted -- poroshenko even admitted the agreements were made to build up the ukrainian military. after eight years, finally decided they had enough of bombing to donbas and killing indigenous russians who do not even want to be a part of -- the united states now support their own civilians in ukraine. why now? we look at this as a special military operation. when you said their intent was to take him, i do not believe

that. actually wanted to take kyiv would be flattened. i believe it was a special to prevent any government from continuously killing at some civilians in the donbas. tell me why russia should -- after nato says. host: go ahead and respond to him. guest: there are a lot of statements and that question. let's just take the question about the minsky agreements in a general manner, which worthy cease-fire agreements that largely brought the hot phase of the war that began in 2014 in a very small relative to where we are today, an area of eastern ukraine that reduce the fighting

significantly. these were agreements reached in the russian capital of minsk and involved in the second minsk agreement france, germany, russia and ukraine. so, the bottom line is that the minsky agreement never produce the durable cease-fire, that there was continuous cease-fire violations on both sides well documented by special monitoring mission. ukraine was not targeting its own civilians. there were armed separatists that russia had incited and supported and there were actual russian forces on the ground in the donbas. the history there is a little more complicated than the caller suggested. what i would say is the lesson particularly from that is that what minsk lacked was

comprehensive measures to make the cease-fire stick. for example, disengagement from the line of contact was attempted as a measure after the agreement was signed and never implemented. it was the opposite of the kind of durable cease-fire i think would be useful in the ukraine context. i think minsk really is a cautionary tale about cease-fires that lack credible and durable.force of mechanisms host: what sort of indication will we see publicly that the u.s. government is pushing for this diplomacy between russia and ukraine? will there be a person appointed? is this all done behind closed doors? will we find out through media leaks? how will we know if this ever starts?

guest: i think, first of all, there were bilateral russia-ukraine negotiations in the early phases of the war. they ended in may of last year and have not been reintroduced since, though they have channels to discuss things like prisoner exchanges which happen all the time. russia and ukraine exchanges prisoners almost every week. they have a channel to discuss this grain export deal, that allowed some of ukraine's grain to be exported through the black sea. i think in the peace, i suggested the talks might have to begin behind closed doors. we did not learn of the iran nuclear deal talks beginning in 2015 until after the fact, even though there was the secret, bilateral channel involving some people in the biden administration that were at the time in the obama

administration. that might be the way this goes given the sensitivity of the subject. i do think having a single individual charged with pursuing this issue, and envoy of sorts, might be useful given that everyone else in the u.s. government and state has other jobs, too. this is an important conflict, such conflicts in the past have had envoys whose job it is to work on the conflicts. i think that might be useful appointment to make in the current context. host: if president biden asks you for your opinion on who should be that envoy, whose name would you pick? guest: that is a good question. i would not want to put anyone on the spot. host: [laughter] guest: i think there are lots of experienced candidates who have worked on difficult issues involving russia and this region

who might work well in that kind of context. host: let's see if we can squeeze in another caller. plainview, new york on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have several points i would like to make. host: you have to be quick, we have two minutes left. caller: i'm going to try. i think the sanctions are not strong enough. china is studying the ukraine war, which they want laban's around the way russia does. they will inevitably, probably attack taiwan or surround taiwan and be weakened militarily by giving all the weapons to ukraine, which i agree with. we have to strengthen our own in preparation for what might happen. also, the small countries will probably want to acquire new to

defend themselves -- nuke to defend themselves against these large countries. anyway, i squeezed inasmuch as i could in a limited time. thank you. guest: big question of readiness. all i can say is i think it is clear the defense department and other elements of the u.s. government are well aware of the issue of maintaining readiness in multiple theaters and are tracking the question of how to do so quite closely. i reassure you on that score. on obtaining nuclear weapons, the u.s. alliance system is one of the best returns from other states doing that. when we extend our own nuclear deterrence to countries such as south korea or japan or europe with our nato allies, they have little incentive to pursue their

own nuclear weapons given the consequences and the fact they are under our nuclear umbrella. the readiness questions are important and are being addressed, i would reassure the caller. host: let's see if we can get a comment from marilyn, calling from illinois on the democratic line. a quick comment or question? caller: good morning. i appreciate this young man and do not want to murder his last name, so i will not try to announce it. the durable cease-fire idea is the best i have hurt and i have been following this war since it started. i hope and pray it would happen before somebody accidentally or on purpose would hit that nuclear power plant. that would be a total disaster. thank you again for this guest. he is marvelous. guest: thank you. the caller raises an important issue.

unexpected and tragic and horrible things can happen and have happened in the context of this work. just this week was the dam being destroyed and this ecological catastrophe in the south of ukraine as a result. regardless of who did it, this is just an example of how this war being prolonged poses the kind of risks that, significant risks from mobile food security to the issue of nuclear security given the location of europe's largest nuclear power plant right on the front lawn, where the two parties are trying, where the ukrainians are trying to push forward not quite at the nuclear power plant. that is an important concern going forward. host: we would like to thank samuel charap, a senior political scientist at the rand corporation and co-author of everyone loses, the ukraine

crisis for post soviet euro asia for being with us this morning and walking us through the russia-ukraine conflict. thank you for being here. guest: thank you. host: coming up, we have university of virginia center for politics larry sabato to discuss the political fallout from former president trump's indictment and what it means for the president campaign. first, it is time for open forum. your chance to weigh in on the trump indictment or any other political policy or topic on your mind this morning. republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents, (202) 748-8002. start calling now. we will be right back with your calls. stick with us, we will return in a moment. ♪ ♪

>> night on q and a, in, his book paved paradise slate magazine staff writer henrik rivard talks about the evolution of parking in the united states and the negative impact people he said has on traffic and the environment. >> i have read dozens of studies and they say basically the same thing, which is, this neighborhood, the city, this town does have enough parking, it is not properly priced, not shared between different uses and people do not know where it is. that speaks for the parking situation in this country as a whole. it is mismanaged and has not been thought through. when we begin to think about how much parking there is, you realize there is a lot of opportunity to better use the parking we have now instead of forcing everyone who wants to build an apartment building or open a restaurant to build 10 new parking spaces, tear down the building next door, etc.

>> henry remarked with his new book, paved paradise at 8:00 tonight on c-span q&a. ♪ >> this week on the c-span networks, the house and senate return. the senate considers president biden's nominee jared bernstein for the council of economic advisers. tuesday treasury secretary janet yellen testifies before the house financial services committee on the state of the international financial system. tuesday, outgoing cdc rector michelle -- decisions during the coronavirus pandemic. federal reserve chair jerome powell hordes -- holds his quarterly press conference. the annual congressional baseball game with members from both parties of the united states congress participating in

the game to raise funds for local charities. watch this week live on the c-span networks or on sp now, our free mobile video app. head over to c-span.org for scheduling information or to stream video live or on-demand anytime. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. ♪ >> c-span's campaign 2024 coverages your front row seat to the presidential election. watch our coverage of candidates on the campaign trail with announcements, meet and greets, speeches and events to make up your own mind. campaign 2024 on the c-span networks. c-span now, our free mobile video app or anytime online at c-span.org. c-span, your unfiltered view of politics. ♪ ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back and in our

open forum segment where you can call and talk about any political issue you want to. your most important political issue. we are going to open up our regular lines. republicans, call (202) 748-8001 . democrats, (202) 748-8000. independents. you can call (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media, on twitter and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. one of the events coming up this week, former president trump will make his first appearance in federal court on the 37 count indictment and the -- organization messenger says state and local law enforcement are on high alert for his appearance in miami on tuesday. i will bring a couple paragraphs from the story.

local and state law enforcement in south florida are on high alert for protests of violence surrounding trump's arraignment in miami on tuesday. according to internal communications seen by the messenger and circulating from a high-ranking official at the miami-dade police department, the internal email cited the twitter account which has about 8000 followers specifically a post from brooklyn around 1115 time -- 11:15 that calls for an all hands on deck trump document hopes rally outside the federal courthouse from 10 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. tuesday. the promoter is claimed to have been banned from several theme parks located throughout the organization. he is trying to gain support, read from the email. he added regional police and homeland security officials will continue to monitor the situation and provide updates as they become available. the same twitter account posted

a separate item friday morning promoting a trump document, post for president trump 2024 rally. police are on high alert with former president trump scheduled to appear in court on tuesday for his appearance on his 37 count arraignment. what is your most important political topic of the day? let's start from shirley calling from north carolina on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, shirley. caller: good morning. guest: go ahead, shirley. caller: thank you for c-span. i have a couple things to talk about. yes, i will vote for trump no matter what. if he gets on the ticket. i am not a republican.

i think that he has been crucified ever since he announced his running in the last election. i think the democrats ought to stop and look at themselves and say, the ones that are perfect and have never done nothing wrong, i do not know that trump has. if they have, throw the first stone then. our country, any president-- host: you are not a republican but called in on the republican line. are you a democrat?? caller: i am an independent. host: next time call on the independent line. let's talk to jean calling don the independent line. caller: i have a question for republican women. have you ever been raped?

trump was convicted by a jury. i cannot understand the last segment where there was so and people calling, they were so hateful because the republican party has shrunk. the independents could not take him. he was convicted by rape in a civil court. a jury convicted him of rape. thank you for taking my call. host: let's talk to mark calling from michigan on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for accepting my phone call. there's two attitudes. there is many. the attitude of trump, i would like to hear the taping of this conversation with ukraine, not just the transcript for one. the third one is, he at the rand corp. representative there.

why hasn't that institution ever tried evolving the tesla static machine? that machine could shoot down any incoming -- coming into ukraine. that is a solution that should be offered to even russia, just to stop the war. that is something that even political pundits is that one to try con bring -- that want to try conquering, or accepting that new force of energy. i'm still trying to figure out if this is a political issue or a public issue. host: let's go to lee calling from washington, d.c. on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. you had a caller during the all republican segment earlier. you mishandled that caller. you asked the caller when he complained about the charges

against president trump, you asked him, where are the charges, where is the indictment against biden? where are those papers? where are those charges? there are none, not yet anyway. the obvious answer being they do not exist, at least not yet. you brushed the collar off and said we will just move on to the next caller. that is not right. four years, there were no indictments against trump. for years. during thatperiod -- convincing people of his guild was based on the same thing that the biden impressions are based on, the release of information through the press and media and people whistleblowing and that is where the impression comes from.

prior to formal charges, prior to an indictment. the same thing is true for biden. you pay attention to what you hear and what is going on. that was kind of unfair to that caller and to the rest of us. host: thank you for your opinion. let's go to ev, calling from minneapolis, minnesota on the democratic line. good morning. are you there? caller: hello, i am here. i am here. host: go ahead. caller: i was just going to say, you have got to go looking forward and see what is going on. ron desantis is nothing. he had swastika flags and flags of ron desantis. i think more people need to see that and understand that.

he is a nazi, they are trying to run our country. it is not good. if you have any guts, you should probably try to vote democratic. i do not care who, just vote. we've got nazis coming on the republican side. they have the article out there. , they call them protesters but they are nazis outside of disney world handing out slides with ron desantis and the nazi flag today. host: let's go to dan calling from georgetown, massachusetts on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i've got a request. i've got to run, i've got a lot of stuff to do today. i have spoken to larry sa bato on your show. i asked him if he was familiar with the smith month we

modernization act, something that got slipped into the 2012 national defense authorization act. he said he did not know about it and kind of dismissed the call. i followed up with any male like i do a lot of times because this matter is so important. of course, i got nothing back. i would like to have you ask about the smith re-modernization act and i want to tell you briefly what that did. it allowed our state department to use taxpayer money to disseminate propaganda within the boundaries of the united states. folks, that started in 2012. our government is filling us with propaganda using our tax money to do it. the people reporting this stuff, there is no repercussions for

it. they have protections in the act itself. people, this is why there is such a division in our country. division in our country. the price is doing this to us and our government has enabled it. thank you. host: let's go to lisa on the republican line. caller: i'm still going to vote for trump, no matter what. that is all that i have to say. thank you and have a great day. host: let's go to gabriel. in morning. caller: thank you so much for c-span. you guys have amazing programming and i have enjoyed watching all of your coverage. i do not hear enough coverage or a lot of talk about what will

happen if ukraine takes back the land. i do not see vladimir putin holding power and who comes after him, is it worse than him? what happens to the russian state? it is very scary. i'm happy that we are supporting ukraine. as for trump, i would ask people to read the indictment. it is absolutely shocking. i do not know how the republicans can keep supporting him. he is a threat to our security. they say they are for military and justice for police, and they are letting him give away our secrets and treat them -- just holding them in his bathroom, it is shocking. the last thing would be, i hope

somebody talks more about uso's because the authorization act is coming out and will have some good whistleblower information. i hope that there will be some more talk about that. i guess that is all i have to say. host: let's talk to rich calling from illinois on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was wondering about -- i was listening to your show. with the respect that people call in with. our congress and senators are there as representatives of the people and the voice of why we elect these people. the subject at hand, what we

want them to deal with, our situation with immigration and how we feel that we are being overrun by this influx of illegal immigrants. they are supposed to come up with a solution. that is what all congressmen and senators are supposed to be addressing these issues. i do not understand. if you feel that a political candidate -- in illinois, we have put them in jail, if we catch them violating the law, and nobody is above the law. there is law and order to the system. it seems that a lot of this is because of personality. it is like they are putting themselves above the law and the

weaponization of the justice department, it is supposed to be -- that is not supposed to be happening. that is why we have these separate government entities, the presidency and the congress. it seems that these lines are being muddied for these purposes , and that is the part, to me, that seems like there is a lot of depressed talks about these issues, and those are issues that are the real issues. we are not supposed to be able to politicize our justice department. we are not supposed to use legal laws to do that. and our congressmen and senators

are supposed to be endorsing to make sure that is not happening. host: i want to bring to you all an article that was in time magazine on june 8. several viewers have brought this up today. here is what time magazine said in an article about the accusations against president biden. president biden said the fbi pointed to a bribery scheme benefiting him or his family, calling it malarkey. chairman of the house oversight committee to release an fbi document of unsubstantiated allegations based on secondhand information. the question came at the end of a 40 minute press conference.

the leaders discussed their nation's commitment. finding ways for the countries. asked for his response to the bribery allegation, where is the money? i'm joking is a bunch of malarkey. saying they point to a broader effort by foreign governments to influence policy. the justice department investigated the allegations in 20 and found no evidence to back them up. that is according to the top democrat on the committee. this is a time magazine story

where biden has called bribery accusations a bunch of malarkey. calling from stratton bill. good morning. caller: good morning. i want you guys to know that i was born and bred a democrat. all my family, brothers and sisters were born and bred a crack. we were ecstatic whenever obama would come up to the plate and was running for president gladly, i voted for obama, but i started noticing a chain in the democratic party in the middle of obama's second term. i knew that things were going to go downhill and i changed my ticket and went to republican. i voted for trump.

here is my thing. ever since he came down that escalator, the guy has been put through hell. let's talk about joe biden and this paperwork. you cut people off when we talk about the paperwork that they have against joe biden. the documents that they have, they have stated that they have the documents on the deal, the 5 million-dollar deal, but you cut people off. why you cut people off when they start talking about biden and all the paperwork and documents, the llc and everything? trump has been put through heck. this government is out of control. they are recognizing the doj and fbi, and it has to stop. this country is very divided. we are all in this together. we have got to figure this out.

america is in the toilet and if this keeps going on, the toll will be flushed and we will be a third world country. host: let's go to matt calling on the democratic line. caller: good morning. anyway, i'm in my 70's. i was born after world war ii. i remember reagan. i remember bill clinton and his investigations, and hillary clinton and her investigation. what i never heard was the justice in those situations.

i never heard about the weaponization of the fbi and doj. when the history of our republic -- the only time we see weaponization of the enforcement entities of the executive branches, you guessed it, when the leader of this colt gets indicted. i do not know. i'm not a genius. i'm not an einstein, but it just shows the power of misinformation, disinformation and outright lies. joe biden did not do anything wrong with this ukrainian nonsense. host: another caller calling from florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been watching this trump guy for 40 years now. he started off as a slumlord in new york city and was indicted

so many times. i think he is a crook and a phony and he hates america. he hates our armed forces. he stole america's secrets. these are state secret that we are dependent on. he stole those secrets and he kept them, and he has been indicted. he is going to get a fair trial and if he is found guilty, he should suffer the consequences. thank you. host: let's go to jerry calling on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. truncates the country and the country. does trump deranged syndrome

come to mind there? that article -- you are aware that bill barr commented on that and said it is simply not true. you are aware that bill barr did respond to that in that way, right? goodness. host: all right. let's go to brenda calling from georgia on the democrat line. good morning. caller: i am not a democrat. i am a republican. host: well then, you have called the wrong line. are you still there? all right. calling from florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to remind that --

[indiscernible] if we do not stop, he will continue. the doj will be weaponized also. joe biden, the fbi, the doj -- they should all be in jail. the one who has been getting money -- how does he make his money? only from being in the senate? those who say that trump is corrupted, he has been working

as president. he has been donating money to the army and to whoever. he is not taking our money. he is doing whatever he is doing for this country because he loves this country. if we could clean up the mess after obama, he would be able to clean up the mess of joe biden. host: all of our collars, thank you for calling in. coming up next, the university of virginia -- huge discuss the fallout from former president trump's indictment. stick with us. we will be right back. >> tonight on q&a, in his book,

paved paradise, henry talks about the evolution of parking in the united states and the negative impact he believes it has on housing, traffic and the environment. >> they all say basically the same thing. this neighborhood, this city, this town really does have no -- really does have parking but it is not properly managed and people do not know where it is. that speaks for the parking in the country as a whole which is to say it is pretty mismanaged and it has not been through. when we think about how much parking there is, you realize there is a lot of opportunity to better use the product we have now, instead of forcing everyone who wants to build, to build 10 new parking spaces and tear down the building next door, etc.

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app. live and on demand. keep up with the biggest events with hearings from the u.s. congress. it has events, the court and more for the world of politics, all at your fingertips and all to stay current with the latest episode of washington journal. a variety of compelling podcasts. it is available at the apple store -- apple store. download it for free today. anytime, anywhere. >> washington journal continues. host: we have back and we are joined by larry. he is the director and he is here with us this morning to us 2024 and the political news of the day.

good morning. let's jump into the big news of the day. what impact does the 37 count indictment of former president trump -- what impact does that have on the republican primary and what impact will that have in politics, overall? guest: let's remember what we do not know. we do not know how quickly, if at all, these matters will proceed, not just the charges that have been lodged against him on the documents, but also the new york case, the hush money case. there may be other indictments, as we all know, coming down the pipe from georgia and elsewhere. we do not know how fast that will go. will trials be held before the end of the primary process? by the way, on the republican

side, it is usually concluded relatively quickly because republicans prefer in about three quarters of the cases that the winner takes all. you are going to get all or almost all of the delegates from that state. who does that benefit? i think we know. it benefits donald trump. he had 17 opponents and they divided the other 62%. that is why trump welcomes many of these candidates to the race. not all of them. but frequently, he welcomes them into the race. when does this come? if it comes after the primaries are held, key primaries like super tuesday -- this will have

less impact, but if on the other hand, the assess is sped up, it will have a real impact on the primary. it will infuriate the trump voters. they might turn out in a higher rate than they usually would. and then, there are the never trump or anti-trump -- i would prefer another candidate with less baggage. that may increase the turnout. we all watch -- we all watch these enormous panels that they assemble on cable news network's . everybody is absolutely sure of absolutely everything and they have an instant analysis. you know exactly what is going to happen a year from now, and it is malarkey. they do not have a clue. none of us do. host: one of the issues that we

have seen here, president trump has basically attacked the doj. i want to run some tapes from trump yesterday. here is saturday. mr. trump: this is a political hit job. republicans are treated far differently at the justice department than democrats. these are the same people who caused the catastrophe, deranged jack. you know what i am talking about, jack smith. what do you think his name used to be? sounds so innocent, but he is deranged. he is the one that caused the catastrophe with the irs, one of

the worst things to happen in this country in many years, going after evangelicals, christians and great americans of faith. they had to pay up and they had to pay up dearly for it when they got caught. this is the same guy, deranged jack smith. i watched him yesterday talk. he was shaking. he was so scared. he did not want to be there because ultimately, they are cowards. and he is a big trump hater. and his wife is even more of a trump hater. i wish her a lot of luck, but he is a bad trump hater and she is a trump hater, and you should not put people like that in. mike pence had classified documents, known problem.

look at jill biden. he has so many classified documents and they do not know what to do. that is obstruction. but we did not do any obstruction. these are people that need to be cleaned out immediately. get them out. [cheering] [chanting usa] host: larry, it is not a surprise to see him attacking people he can that are his political enemies. is this a winning message for the republican primary and for the general election? guest: not for general election but primaries and nominating contest, of course it is. doesn't guarantee a win? no, but it helps in by stirring

up his voters. they are very dedicated to him. some call it a cult others said you should believe deeply in trump. it is the same old song. we knew donald trump in different forms up until 2015, when he became a candidate, but what he has done since then and what he has done yesterday is using vitriol, tax, conspiracy theories and bullying. it has worked for him. that is why he continues to use it. it says more about us than it says about donald trump. but it is the republican electorate. the democrat electorate will draw voters. they are tens of millions more than all of the primaries

together. that will include tens of millions of democrats and independents, as well as independent. they will be a lot less influenced by trump's same old song. most of them do not want to sing it again. host many adults say trump shouldot be allowed to serve again if he is convicted of a serious crime. others say he should be able to serve. what does it say that former president trump is still bleeding in primary poles?

guest: it is not contradictory. that is an opinion. we like to express opinions, but the reason why he could become president again and serve as president is because the founders included a certain number of qualifications. those are the only qualifications. there are no other

qualifications that may be added. we may think it is absurd that someone can become president while sitting in an orange jumpsuit at a super max prison, which i doubt will ever happen to trump. let's say he does or someone else does and we get an opportunity. that is america and you can like it or dislike it. good luck with that but that is the way it is. you have to work within the system. host: this indictment has sucked all the air out of the room for any other republican candidate. does this indictment help former president trump or does it help

some of his competitors in the republican primary? guest: at this early stage, it helps trump. we cannot say for the future but right now, it helps trump. it takes the air out of the room. trump does not want anybody else there. with two exceptions, they have all rushed to support him and to call this totally political and outrageous. they know that this is a judicial process. they understand the process. they understand that this is a

very good case and everyone should read this indictment. but that does not matter because most people are not going to read the indictment. so, they help trump by rushing to his support, but they do not know how to do anything else because they know most of the activists are as pro-trump as you can get. but they are trying to say is, if you read between the lines, they are saying, we think one way or another, donald trump is going to be knocked out of the race or is going to become a much more side candidate by the time the primaries rollaround. if we are attacked by trump, then they will not vote for us. we believe that he will be

knocked out one way or another. it depends on who you count. they all hope the same thing. it is not a profile of courage but a profile that we all understand. the viewer is -- host: we are going to open up the lines. keep in mind you can always text us and we are always beating on social media and at twitter.

larry, we have already seen in campaign and being put out there. i want to play two aunts for you, first, the new campaign ad and another ad for president biden. we will do the trump one first. here is the recent campaign ad. >> here is a question for you. how far are the radical left willing to go to stop it? we all know they hate him for exposing their deep state and for draining their precious swamp. they already know that he will crush biden. like a pack of rabid wolves,

they are attacking. let's get prosecutors to charge him. let's conspire with hillary and the fbi with fake stories about him. all to distract from biden's incompetence and money grabbing corruption. but here is the thing. he will never blink. that is called having the courage and your convictions and it is why he is our president. >> i am donald j. trump and i approve this message. >> under president biden's historic leadership -- when republicans threaten to wreck the economy, president biden took charge of secured an agreement and prevented chaos while protecting social security, health care and other critical programs. president biden delivers for us again. host: tell me your opinions of

those. guest: they have different purposes. the one for trump is stoking his base, stoking the trump voters. that is filet mignon. that is going to help him produce a lot of votes. it is still full of inaccuracies. i collect, watch and analyze thousands of ants. is that the worst i have ever come across? no. is it a nice add? have you ever known him to do anything nice? on the biden ad, why did they do that? americans generally are convinced that the economy is rotten and things are going to

hell in a handbasket, and they have a lot of work to do to change people's minds, if they can. that is what it is. look at these facts. look at these statistics. i understand what they are doing and they have to do it. if they think it will move voters, than they have a bigger problem than they think they do. it is not going to move voters. i'm sure they will get to those. it is a long campaign. here we are. a full campaign mode in june of the year prior to the election. i'm old enough to remember when campaigns did not even start until january of an election year for president. certainly for about everything else, but we have long since blown through that deadline and

now we just get constant politics, day in and day out. it is good for people in my career, but i do not know about the rest of the country. host: a used to be all the way back in january. let's get some of our callers into this conversation. calling from alabama on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. you know what? it is so sad in america right now. it really is. donald trump has disgraced this country. i'm so sick and tired. this is not america. it is some of the people in america. this country was built for us to come together, for us to be equal. that is why people come to america because they see goodness. they see integrity.

they see charity. donald trump has torn this country down. i want to make this point. black people, the justice system has been so unfair to african-americans. it has been. some of these republicans on tv defending donald trump, come on. we need to wake up. this man has money. this man is a white american. i'm saying that he has had the upper hand of everything that this country can give. things are getting better. i do not want to be in anywhere but america. i was born here and i have rights here.

these republicans are destroying america. host: what is your response to her? guest: i love when people are passionate about politics, as long as they stay nonviolent. she was passionate but nonviolent. i'm all for that. as far as the individual points, one of the things i love, everybody gets their say. we do not need an expert to comment on people's opinions. host: on the republican line, john. caller: good morning. it is just not true that trump supporters are cult members. yeah facts.

we look at what he did for this country and things were good. we are able to make a living and put a few dollars in the bank. to call donald trump some kind of racist or criminal, or something like that, that is just something that the liberal news media wants to do. we do not diet. the fbi has been proven to be liars. they have been proven to take things to court and not have any evidence to back it up. i just wanted to make that point. trump voters are not cult members. it is common sense.

guest: sometimes i do not remember, but i do not think i used cult member or some of the phrases that he brought up, but he made a comment in a simple manner. we have a disagreement, perhaps and i leave it at that. host: some additions to the gop field this week, including former vice president pence and former governor chris christie. how is it that more people are jumping into this race? guest: they see an opportunity, perhaps to become president. you come away from every meeting saying, he is going to win, she is going to win. they all have this detailed plan of how they are gog to get there, and they are very good at selling it. obviously, not everybody is going to win.

i would say that the reason they are running is for the chance to become president, but there are other labors to this. there are other motives, including becoming prominent enough to get on news shows or to get a contract with a network or to write a book because all your followers will buy it. there are lots of those. that is why many of them stay in. they may be losing, but they know that every precious minute will increase their price when the campaign is over. it's america. we have a capitalist system and people trying to make money in whatever way that they can in their field of politics.

host: we have been talking a lot about trump and the indictment. let's talk about joe biden. how should his campaign team handle or approach the trump indictment's? should they say nothing? should it become part of their political advertisement? guest: no. if trump becomes a republican nominee, certainly they would use that and if it is another republican candidate who ran traps support, of course that is going to be in the advertisement against that particular candidate, but this is not the time, and they know it. that is the right stance. what i wish the administration would do -- this is a nonpartisan comment. explain the judicial process to people because i have learned in

my career that many people, many millions of people do not even know the fundamentals, much less the details and nuances of government and politics and judicial procedures. this is a learning moment. it does not have to be biden. it could be people in the justice department or u.s. senators -- it could be anyone in the position. use a to communicate with people and to teach them about our rather complicated system. let's talk to alan calling from arkansas on the independent

line. good morning. good morning -- caller: good morning. the first caller was very passionate and very scared but 100% wrong. she has been told that the racists are out to get her, that she does not have agency or that she is not smart enough to get a drivers license is that we have to have federal to make sure. but she was wrong. the second guy, what you actually did, after the man the trump speech and after the ad, you said that they had been meat for their base. if you recognize that we no longer have a political system, you said how are they going to deal with that? they are directing it.

the opposition party -- look at the charges. all of the previous presidents, obama left with 30 million that they put in in unsecured house. he had no pulse and show privilege. it disregards trump's presidential privilege. if you checked the guidelines, they delivered those boxes before biden was sworn in. the archivists usually put it in a neutral place, but everything that has happened since, nothing has been the same for the presidential office when it comes to donald trump. there was no smooth transition. somebody who knew where the bodies were buried -- obama changed the law so that they

could share unverified materials . everything in the government has been corrupted and now they have corrected the fbi and they are coming after everyone. if you do not recognize this, why are you in politics? you have to see what is coming at the opposition. host: go ahead and respond. guest: i am not in politics. i am an educator at the university of virginia. beautiful, wonderful people. that is what i do. i tried to educate in one way or another about whatever the campaign is or what the issues are. do i agree with the gentleman on all things? no. i think some of what he said is fundamentally wrong, but he made the comments civilly.

i accept it. host: let's go to all, new york on the democratic line. caller: i just want to say one thing. americans seem to forget and forgive. i'm just asking everyone, please remember january the sixth when you make up your mind about who to vote for. thank you. host: larry, do you think january 6 will have any play at all in the republican primary or the general election in 2024? guest: republicans have dismissed it one way or the other.

some of them -- here is a little hint from an educator. they did not. i do not think it influences republicans at all except to the extent that they say trump was unfairly treated and they think it was justified. i do not know how you justify violence against dozens of police officers. i'm shocked that they would draw that kind of conclusion from it. of course democrats are going to use january 6. they should use january 6 because it makes that point about what they believe donald trump will do once he is back in the oval office. he learned a lot in that first term. you could argue that he lost a lot of opportunities in the first few years. he did not know what he was doing. he had a lot to learn.

he took a different tact as the election approached, so this time he would be starting out day one on how to run and control. in that sense, he would be more effective or more threatening. host: president biden has issues that are being talked about in the democratic party around his age. some progressives are upset over climate and budget issues. these are issues that have to be resolved before the general election. which one of those issues do you think is more significant? his age, issues with climate or the budget issues? guest: age is a legitimate

issue. i am a senior myself, getting more and more senior. i do not think it applies equally to all people. i think that some of the physical does not necessarily mean that the mind is deteriorating as quickly. that is how i view the age question. 40's 50's and 60's is old enough to have enough experience to govern and they are young enough to discern without having to worry about illness interfering with their work. the other thing, the issues are

very interesting.what is importt only is the republican party fracturing, the democratic party is fracturing. views on vaccines are insane. he is questioning the validity of the 2020 election. get real. everybody in your family, except for you believes that 2020 was legitimate. marianne williamson, god bless her, she is not going to be a major or any factor in the election, but what is significant is an independent group called no labels that seems determined to nominate a presidential ticket. depends on who they choose. i do not want to draw conclusions, but it could easily

help a candidate like donald trump get a second term. that is a great threat if you wanted to keep him out of the oval office. a distinguished academic has been active in politics and education for a long time, but he is running from the left as an independent. ralph nader got a percent or two and surprised al gore. he cost al gore not just florida but new hampshire. those electoral votes in new hampshire -- he would have won with new hampshire. they have every right to run.

they are american citizens. they feel strongly about things. i'm not questioning their right to run, but i think practical politics should come into the consideration. host: let's talk to andy calling on the republican line. caller: larry comey mentioned something about the 2020 election being legitimate. i would remind you that dominion voting machines, government institutions interfered in our 2020 election just the way they did a 16 election. how could they support trump? probably millions of people. the reason is this. it started off with the dossier. we do not want to live in the past, but we need to keep this in mind, when we are deciding

what our government is doing. they identified -- talking about worse than watergate. all these authors and everything, worse than watergate. russia collusion, impeachment one and two, media put surprises for the russian investigation. clinton and the emails -- is hard -- it is hard for people to see everything they have done to donald trump. why we support this guy because our government is broken and corrupt, and incompetent. host: go ahead and respond. guest: i cannot respond to all

of it. this gentleman is wise about one thing. i want to salute him for it. in the beginning, he excluded dominion voting systems from his accusations, and that is wise because fox news just lost three quarters of a billion dollars because of reckless statements made about dominion voting systems. that gentleman is smart in that respect. host: calling from california. is it rodeo or ro-day-o. >> -- caller: it is ro-day-o. i did not actually switch to the democratic party until those junior. the way he got into office with florida. but the thing was, here is

another thing. i happened to be home on september 11 when the towers went down. i watched it live on tv. i was scared. somebody from a foreign country is coming after us. i was home when january 6 came and i was watching on c-span come alive. i was more terrified that september 11. -- dan september 11. it made me think that my next-door neighbor could be crazy and do something like this, because some kind of civil war. the next thing that happened, i was listening to c-span before or after january 6 and someone got onto the republican link and they were calling trump the eternal potus.

that is when i knew that he was a cult instead of a president. i have a lot of family who are republicans and have been republicans, generational republicans. we can talk about stuff. we can talk about politics. now we cannot. now it is an argument. they do not come between anymore. host: go ahead and respond. guest: again, there are so many points in there that we do not have time, but i think she made a good point. as i said earlier, it is perfectly ok to be passionate about what you believe in, but your party affiliation and candidates that you like. but it always must be in the context of americans. we are all americans and all

citizens together. we are all in the same boat, a boat that does not do well when the people are not worried about where the boat is going because they are too busy fighting each other. nonviolence, but passion is fine. january 6 contradicted that. certainly, 9/11 did and other dates. we can name loads of dates where most americans were afraid, sad, unhappy, and recognized that something terrible had happened. we need to try to avoid those moments, if possible. we help when we are still nonviolent and respectful of other people and their opinions. host: we are running out of time, but i want to make sure i get this question in. if there is a repeat of trump

versus biden in 2024, they are not the only ones on the ballot. how does a repeat effect the down ticket races on that ballot? guest: that is a great question but it is unanswerable. we do not know who those people are and it does not matter whether they are serious or not serious people, well known or unknown. i cannot answer that except to say that it will have an impact. it will probably cost this candidate a state here or there. again, people have the right to run and vote. most candidates are right in -- write in people. loading is essential. it is one of the few things we are asked to do as citizens. we do not get sent to the

military right away anymore. the one thing that we should all do, every election is about. the vast majority of people who watch c-span vote, but most of the people we need to beat are not watching. -- reach are not watching. host: kurt, you have to be fast. caller: i wanted to bring up the independent. you brought that up earlier. i think with the division, that this would be a good chance for someone, who would be politically in the middle, in the center, somebody like tulsi gabbard. i think this is a prime time for someone like that to get their chance at an election. host: very good.

does a third-party candidate have any chance of winning the candidacy? guest: i made a vow to myself and so far i have kept it. i never rule anything out anymore. you have to accept the fact that circumstances can change and change dramatically. host: we would like to thank larry from the university of virginia center of politics for being here with us this morning and talking about camping 2024. always great to see you. guest: as always, it is a great show and people should watch it. host: thank you to all of our guests, viewers and social media followers. everyone continued to stay safe out there and had a great sunday. we will see you again tomorrow. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2022] [captioning performed by the

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