-- book tv.org. c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more. including wow. >> the world has changed. today fast reliable internet connection is something no one can live without. so wow is there for customers. speed, reliability and choice. now more than ever it all starts with great internet. >> wow, support c-span along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. up next maryland democratic governor moore, talk about political polarization and the importance of disagreeing the right way. from the economic club of washington, d.c., this is just under one hour.

>> please welcome to the stage, judy woodruff along with governor moore and governor cox. >> [ applause ] >> hello governors, it is such

a treat to be here with the two of you. look what a big crowd you have drawn. >> amazing. >> for the economic club, everyone want to welcome the governors again? >> [ applause ] >> so the reason this has come about in large part is because the national governors association meeting in washington this week, governor cox, you are the chair of the governors association this year. in your initiative the you have been putting a lot of focus on is called disagree better. i want to ask the two of you, what does that mean? why disagree better right now? >> sure, judy. let me start by thanking everyone for being here. it such an honor and i'm excited to be here with my good friend, governor moore. i the way, i am in cycle right now so i am up for reelection this year. knee just saying i good friend wes moore is a true testament of courage, i think, in this type of electoral cycle. and i mean that a little tongue-

in-cheek, but judy, that is the issue, it really got my attention. as chair of the national governors association, we get to do an initiative every year. and i was really excited, i looked back at some of my predecessors, governor hogan, he focused on infrastructure and that gives you an idea, more traditionally, we have had education initiatives. i was looking specifically at healthcare, what can we do to reduce the cost of healthcare? i was looking at critical minerals and energy policy. 19, as we were talking, we just had this realization that we can't accomplish or solve the biggest problems facing our nation today if we all hate each other. and so, when we looked at what we felt was the single most pressing problem in our country today, it is the content -- contempt we feel for our fellow americans. and so we thought, could we try something around that?

could we put an initiative together where the last adults in the room, governors, could show that there is a better way to do this? and again, not just some new way, but the way we used to do it here in the as. sus. that we could just disagree, this is not just another stability issue, it's not just about being nice to each other, although we need more of that, it is relearning how to disagree the right way. had to have debate, how to stay true to your principles, your core values, without demeaning and tearing apart the other side. and in so doing, actually find common ground and where we can meet each other to solve problems. that was the idea behind this initiative. and we have no idea how it would be received, but there is

an exhaustive majority out there and it has been very well received. >> governor moore, why did you want to be part of this? >> i believe deeply you can't claim to love the country if you hate half of the people in it. >> amen. >> it just doesn't make sense. >> [ applause ] >> and one why a degree is because, -- when i was first inaugurated we went down to baby governor school for all the new governors. it so funny, when i got back my mom asked me, what grade did you get? he got an a. but one of the first people who came and embraced me and help me and has consistently reached out and asked how things are going is the republican governor of utah, governor cox. he has been a real friend. and so, i think about what it means, i don't come from a

political family, don't come from a political background. i was a combat veteran with the 82nd airborne, i ran a small business in maryland and then one of the largest party funding decisions in this country. i have been an elected official for 13 months. and the thing i know is that this whole divisive left, right, what party you are part of, i didn't comp and the culture. i wasn't raised in that culture. i say i had to convince members of my family to vote for me. but it wasn't because i'm not cool with my family. a very cool with my family, it's because members of my family would've never voted. so the idea that we are supposed to hate somebody because of their political affiliation is not something that i understood, it's not something i came up in, and i have no desire of learning that. and so i just believe deeply, if we are actually going to get stuff done, it means

understanding and getting back to the basic humanity of what it is we're trying to accomplish. and keep that is your norstar. >> what you think is at the bottom of this polarization, this polarized time we are living in? what you think is the cause? >>you have been trying to chronicle that for several months. i think both of us have a lot of answers about what is at the bottom of it. i could spend all afternoon on this. let me try and be concise. this started a few decades ago, the early 1990's is when we started to see the division happen in congress. certain politicians had figured out how to take advantage of dividing us to help themselves using fear and anger. it is motivating. we both love sports. there are basketball coaches who inspire you to run through a wall to do anything for them. and there are coaches who literally choke you.

out of fear, may he rest in peace -- [laughter] but out of fear, and fear can be motivating. so there is that peace. and then what happened was, the internet and social media, which was supposed to bring us together, has than the exact opposite at a time when, and again i could spend all day talking about loneliness in america and how critical that is. dr. putman, famously now 20 years ago, bowling alone, the book that was so well received and started to help us understand that as americans, we are losing community and institutions that have historically brought us together. we are less religious than ever before. if we go back, i can give you one. what america looked like then, and all of these institutions like religion and others that brought us together are all

falling apart. we are lonely, wired for connection, we are desperate and i we don't have it so we are fighting and in unhealthy places. if i don't have any real friends, at least we can hate the same people together on facebook. right? that is where we are and what we are doing now. i want to go back to something that wes said, there is an idea that nothing is more un- american than hating fellow americans. we never defined ourselves by our political parties growing up. i did not know who the republicans were in my town. the democrats were in my congregation. i did not know that. that was like the 20th or 30th thing you would drink yourself at. we were americans, utahans, utah jazz fans, patriots fans, jets fans. whatever. not jets fans. sorry. but, we were dads, we were

mormons, or catholics. that was so far down the list. and now it is the first thing. it is the first thing most people define themselves with. that is crazy. and so unhealthy. in a pluralistic society like ours, if that is how we see ourselves first and foremost, we are sincerely in trouble. i'm grateful to find people -- but i do think that is how it all came together. then we had a pandemic which makes things even worse, we are more divided. we have to get back to redefining ourselves. >> governor moore, i know you have been thinking a lot about this, from where you sit, you been in office for 13 months, what you see, what is going on that is driving this harsh partisanship? >> i think a lot of it going on is the people are just opting out. they are opting in to their own

social corners. they are opting in to listening to news, not to be educated but to be validated. they are opting out of having a measure of societal connection. and so it's interesting, because, when he first came on board, i remember during my first inaugural -- my first state of the state, i talked about the idea that i want maryland to be the state that serves. and i want us to be the state that serves because i knew that , and why we pushed in our first legislative session, one of the first things we got done in her first 90 days is maryland is now the first in this country that has a service your option for over high school graduates. over high school graduates -- >>[ applause ] >> have a chance to have a year of service to the state of maryland. they can choose how to do. they can serve seniors, young people, veterans, returning citizens.

the environment is their choice. you find that thing that makes your heart beat faster. and we just want to foster way for you to do it. but there are a couple big reasons why i prioritize that. one is, i'm of big believer in spiritual learning. giving people an opportunity to find that item and a pathway to do. a big believer in financial cushions. and earned financial cushions and the people, service is not something that people should just do because, but there should be a financial incentive to do it. that is also how you democratize it. it is fantastic for workforce training. but the big reason is because those who serve together generally stay together. i served with people in afghanistan who came with campaigning with me when i ran for governor. many of them were not marylanders. many of them are not democrats. but they literally came from their homes and where they lived to come and door knock on

my behalf. and were simply knocking on doors and think, let me tell you about the guy i served with. so i believe in this time of medical divisiveness and political vitriol, that service will save us. and that is why we want to make our service because we believe that is a core way to heal the divides. if we are state the gets to know each other again we are a state that is willing to compete together. >> we are here at the economic club of washington, and there are so many questions i have for the two of you. i do want to start, at this point, with a question about the economy. just a few blocks from here, congress is deadlocked over the budget. we are a few weeks away from what could be, and i will start with you, governor moore, a government shutdown because i can't come to an agreement overspending. what with the impact of that be? >> it will be severe on us. we are talking about a state that has the third highest level of federal jobs and workforce, the state of maryland.

there are jurisdictions in our state, for example prince george largest restrictions in the state of maryland, 23% of employees has some form of collection -- connection to the federal government. it is disastrous and avoidable. >> governor cox, there was a budget deal last year and it didn't hold . house republicans came back and said we want deeper cuts. it is not enough. and here we are. how do you see it? >> the same way. this is devastating for every state. and for all of us as americans. and we should all be completely embarrassed by the fact that -- this is the only thing they are supposed to do. the one thing. the one thing they are back there to do. and look, this is what happens, again, going back to what we were talking about earlier,

this divisiveness, and corrosive this, we are elevating and social media helps to do this, traditional video and cable news helps to do this, to elevate the extreme voices. we have the incentive structure all wrong now in america. we are elevating the loudest voices in the room. so what is happening is, politics is now full of performers. not people who want to solve a problem. speaking of congress, the thing about governors is we still have to do stuff. right? potholes are not partisan. we have to do stuff. they are supposed to do stuff, but they are not. and when we elevate performers who have no incentive to actually accomplish anything, -- look, i use the traditional right/left framing, it is shorthand for so many things. but in my more lucid moments, i get rid of those terms and i look at builders and destroyers.

because there are builders on the right and left in the middle. and there are destroyers on the right, left and probably some in the middle. but who are the people that are building, that are trying to create something? it so easy to tear down. now we have a congress full of people who are good at tearing things down but terrible at building anything. >> is it your sense people are even listening to each other on questions as fundamental as this? in congress? >> it's difficult to see any evidence of that. and i think, governor cox is right, the challenge is we don't have that luxury. every single year we have to balance our budget. every single year the budget i present to the legislature is a budget that is balance. by constitutional mandate. right? and i tell you what is really frustrating about it as well is this, there are things that on the state level that we can fundamentally do to be able to get our economic engines going.

when i first took office, maryland was ranked 47th in the country in economic momentum. we were ranked, for the past five years our economy has grown might .2%. the average state has grown by 7.5%. are on up limit rate was 43rd in the country. when my first priorities was to get the economy going. we have to have more people entering the economy. invest in industries of the future, be deliberate about how we utilize our balance sheet. if you look at where we are now, maryland has now jumped 20 slots in economic momentum, one of the fastest-growing economies in the entire country. for the past five months we have the lowest employment rate in america. for the past five months, right? we have an economy that is actually moving. now we are sitting there having debates about government shutdowns. having debates because we as governors deal with the consequences of broken border policies. because there is no governor in charge of immigration. but that is why this does become so frustrating.

and why that level of engagement , the level of thoughtfulness that governors have to bring into this work, there are consequences to dysfunction. >> is the best economy in the last 10 years -- >> [ laughter ] >> historic supremacy, i will acknowledge that. >> because this is really important. we have always felt, and you're feeling it now, the we are like a race car with a parachute on the back. and the federal government, they can't do simple stuff like this. >> do you think you can have any influence? >> can we have any influence? >> and you as a governor have influence on this particular impact? >> if i could be would affix it a long time ago. look, again, you are talking to

people who aren't interested in fixing the problem. too many of them. not all of them. obviously there are great people in congress, i don't mean to disparage all of them. look, i know, it is 99% of congress the gives the other 1% really bad name. >> [ laughter ] >> it is really hard when they are not interested in listening to anyone. >> i would push in that only a little bit by simply saying, i do think it is important to not underestimate the voices the governors do have in this. and the collective voice the governors can speak on and why it becomes so important. because i think people understand the governors, we are the closest to the people. right? analogies say the people closest to the challenges are often times closer to the solutions. i do think the collective voice of governors, the governors can and should have on this, i do think that does matter. and also, why i applaud the work of the nga and why we are here

during this moment, is because i due it's important for people in congress and people in washington to hear collective voice from people who are directly responsible and directly touching the people. and saying, we need you all to act. i think it is very appropriate and important that when so much is being decided, that the governors are coming together and saying, we have a concerned voice. >> and i will say governor murphy, who was the chair when i was the vice chair, and now governor polis is my vice chair, we waited on behalf of the national governors association on behalf of every policy. >> you brought up immigration. as we know there has been an in precedented surge of migrants coming across the southern border. we have republican saying the border is out of control. they have turned it into a huge issue. is that criticism accurate? >> that is very accurate. it is very accurate because, it is remarkably frustrating,

because it is the governors wind up taking on the brunt. it is the governors who end up taking on the responsibility of making sure the people are safe and housed et cetera. and without any form, without in of supports, without enough policy that can really help to, the long-term solution. i signed with eight other governors asking congress to move on budgetary allocations coming toward the state. but also coming up with the border policy that is actually functional. and so it does have real implications. because, the responsible governors, our habit is not going to be, let's just ship them off to the governors. responsible governors don't do that. >> speaking of border policy, governor cox, you know, i am

sure, you know, senator james langford, a longtime conservative in oklahoma helped lead a bipartisan effort to come up with a proposal that would be acceptable to both sides that involves hitting the president the authority to cut off all immigration, for a period, makes it harder for legal asylum. as we know the has been rejected. what happens now? when something has been led by someone at the heart of conservative thinking doesn't work? >> it is incredibly frustrating. i don't know what else to say. i think this is a very complicated issue and we try to simplify it. i think both sides do this a little too much. there is so much more the president could be doing right now. and, there is so much that congress needs to do as well. and congress has kicked this can down the road now for 40 years. and continues to do so. but even that one, i think it is just illustrative of how broken our congress is right now. yes, i understand the way it

happened and who is responsible for doing the negotiation. but those negotiations happened behind closed doors. 99% of congress never saw that law until it was actually presented to them. i don't know how you do it in your state, but i'm pretty sure it is not like that. it is certainly not like that in my state. you're supposed to negotiate, bring it out, let people offer amendments. go through a process. and that didn't happen at all. yeah, there are a lot of people who left -- felt left out of the process and republicans revolted. again, there has to be affix and we have to have people willing to do that. i admit my side should've stayed at the table longer and done that. but then last night, you have three candidates for senator, democrats in california, saying they would've not supported the bill. i don't know what the answer is, i just know we are not getting any answers by the way they are doing it right now.

>> part of what we are talking about here, not the whole thing by any means, is the tone. the two of you disagree on a number of issues but you are able to have a conversation. able to talk about it. and i just want to cite a couple of examples, there are many i could cite, just recently senator from the state of utah, charge that democrats in his words, hate the bill of rights. for her part, a seal of new york was talking about immigration and she said, republicans want to roll black -- rollback child labor laws. this is just two examples out of thousands of others. how do you inject civil conversations, discussions at a time like this? >> i mean, i actually care about getting things done. and, i just know that performative, emotive splurges is not how you do it.

you know, i think about our first session. where, we introduced 10 bills in her first legislative session. we went 10 for 10. we went 10 for 10 bipartisan. we had democrat and republican supports in every single bill be introduced. we are now in her second legislative session and, knock on wood, we are feeling pretty good. that we will be able to match the idea of bringing democrats and republicans on every single bill we are going to get past. it matters because, i think they see there is a real partner in this work. it matters, and people say how did you do it? i say actually did outreach. i actually went to the districts. i went to talk to them. i spent time with the families. i spend time with their constituents. and then we made the argument as to why fighting child

poverty is not a democratic issue. it is an issue hitting your districts too. why making sure that we put together the most aggressive housing package in two generations in our state, that wasn't because it's only going to impact democratic areas. it is because housing shortage taking place in the state of maryland is impacting urban, rural and suburban parts of the state. and so, i think it fundamentally comes down to, do you actually want to get something done? do you actually want to accomplish anything? or do you actually benefit from the dysfunction? and i think for the people that actually want to get things done, because we actually want to take this moment seriously and these responsibilities that we are in, you have to come up with a way of actually engaging people instead of demonizing them. because, you are not going to get a different type of answer. >> do enough people want to get it done and what you do about this civil tone? >> there are so many great things that governor moore just said.

i just want to underscore. he is talking about persuasion . and, this idea that we can still persuade people to work on a problem. we have gotten so far away from persuasion in both political parties. and, when you do that, -- really, we spend a tremendous amount of stein -- time working with experts on polarization. what's happening in our country today. there are different types of polarization. it turns out we are not as partisan polarized as we think we are. i know that sounds weird. we just spent a half hour telling you how polarized we are and now i'm telling you we are not. i mean by that is if you actually interview republicans and democrats on certain issues, like immigration or abortion or whatever, you name the issue, and i will show you polling that shows the median republican and median democrat aren't that far apart in what they actually believe. but here's the problem, the

problem is that we think we are that far apart. we think we are this far apart. and we have politicians who win by making us think we are this far apart. and that is why i have to convince you all that governor moore hates the constitution and heats our country. or, governor moore has to convince people that governor cox hates immigrants and hates the environment. right? if we can do that, it is so much easier to get our base to just fall in line. and not ever listen to the other side. when none of that is true. i think that is incredibly dangerous. we know it is dangerous because the experts have told us, that when you think the other side is willing to violate democratic norms or engage in illegal or even

violent behavior, then you become more permissive with your side. you are much more willing to allow your side to violate democratic lords and engage in even violent behavior, because that is what is going to take to say what is so important to us. when you realize, and again, there was a great study at stanford where they ran these different experiments including an ad i did with my democratic opponent a couple years ago, where they engaged over 30,000 people, and found that when you saw that the other side was not as far apart as you think the are, then your willingness to engage in violent behavior or violate democratic norms, goes way down. i do think there still is an exhaustive majority, the polls show that, 75% of americans it was happening in politics right now. the exhausting majority. by the way, they hate both major candidates for president, they don't want either of them to run for president and yet

here we are. and so, it is leading us down this very dangerous path. but if you can have people like governor moore and others who are willing to stand up and say, i disagree on abortion, i disagree passionately on abortion with senator stabenow test governor cox, but i don't think he's a bad guy and we are going to figure out how to work through this. that brings us back to the table. you have to have that in a pluralistic society to survive. >> you're getting to i wanted to ask you, i wanted to raise a couple of difficult questions like abortion. what would be an example of a civil, productive discussion, debate about abortion? what would it even sound like? i'm not asking you to go through the details of your thinking, but what would it even looked like? >> i think there are couple of ways this could go. one, we can debate when life starts. you know, the value of life.

those debates have been going on for long time. we know we are probably going to end up at a different place than that. so, are there some areas where we could find agreement? i am just positing this because we have not had this debate. governor polis and i have had this debate. what we realized was, there are some areas where we could focus on. that is, it could be focus on making abortion as rare as possible? most pro-abortion people also believe that abortion, it's not a great thing. they would prefer it didn't happen. could we agree on sex education or contraception availability? something like that? could we do more to help single moms and babies? if we care about life, we should care about all life, not just life until it's born. could be focus on those areas? are there places for agreement, we know we are never going to

agree on this piece but could we agree on that piece? i think, again, that is an area for rational debate and rational from solving. >> what would you add on? is it possible to have in a highly charged subject, a civil debate? >> it is. because, i think that there's a difference between having a civil debate, but also saying that we are going to come to the same conclusion. we might not come to the same conclusion. for example, i think about the work we did last year where yes, we passed legislation that focus on things like privacy and protections of people, both performing, patients and providers of proportion. -- abortion. this year we helped lead an initiative where it's going to be on the ballot to put in our constitution. but, even though, my belief,

abortion and reproductive rights, that is healthcare. that is women's healthcare. i'm not going to take away a woman's right to her healthcare. i also know that the ability to focus on things like education and prevention, like we did working with upstream and knowing the part of reproductive health means making sure that women and girls are getting the education they need about family planning and that type of thing. so i think there is a way that even if we end up at a different conclusion, there is how can you have a respectful debate and disagreement without it turning the trial it. >> here's another issue, guns and crime. governor moore, i will start with you. what would a civil discussion, a productive discussion look like even on guns? >> i mean, this is, you know, again, it's a challenging and personal issue for me. you know, am a person who spent

, from the time i was 17 years old, that is when i joined the u.s. army. i served with, trained with and deployed with paratroopers and where we spent most of our time, being trained up on weapons and multiple calibers and i have seen firsthand how destructive they are. i have seen firsthand what they do to the human body. i grew up in neighborhoods where the idea of public safety was always a want and not a have. and so, when i think about putting together responsible and common sense gun laws, as we have done in the state of maryland, it is not about, are you taking away people's freedoms. the way i look at it is, are you actually offering a sense of freedom to people to groping safety in their own neighborhoods? and to groping safety in their own communities? and so when we said things like,

that a person who has a history of mental illness and a history of violence should not be able to get their hands on a firearm, that a person that anyone under a certain age should not be able to get their hands on a gun. there is no reason for a person to bring a firearm into a nursery. or to an amusement park. or to a home of worship. we said there common sense gun laws that you can put in place that even for people who believe in a second amendment or people who believe we are not about taking firearms from people, but what we are about is making sureis making sure people can and should feel safe in their own neighborhoods and can feel safe in their own communities. >> what with that discussion, that debate look like to you? >> obviously in utah the debate would be a little bit different. i think what's fascinating in this discussion where i would start as he started talking

about his background and growing up. my background was very different. i grew up in a rural community, small town with 1200 people. i had a gun in my truck every day when i drove to school my sophomore, junior, senior year as did all of my friends. i had a 12gauge shotgun or 30 out six depending on what we were hunting after school. that is the way i was raised. now you never drive to school with a shotgun in your truck. that is crazy. i get that it's crazy. this was absolutely normal. you were weird if you did not have a shotgun in your truck. i think, that is an important starting place for me and very different than for him. we recognize those differences instead of dehumanizing and attacking.

instead of -- you are trying to take guns away and destroy the constitution so i have to hold on or vice versa. or you want kids to die what's wrong with you. you can't get to a starting line when that's where we are starting from. i do think it is important. i want to underscore this. it is okay that the laws in maryland are different than the loss in utah. it's not just okay. that is how the country was founded. i think one of the problems we've gotten ourselves into is this idea that every state -- we all have to have exactly the same laws. people naturally push against that. federalism was important then and is important now. up we had a little more of that i think there would be a little less tension at the federal level. >> another issue that is

getting a lot of attention and become very hot. diversity equity and inclusion. governor, just this last month you signed legislation restricting what the state can do, what state-supported schools can do. talk about your thinking about the issue. i want to hear both of you talk about how you have a discussion about the ei. >> i wrote 5000 words about the ei a couple days ago. i know you are all dying to read 5000 words from the governor of utah. i would encourage you to do that if you have nothing else going on later today. to me this was a really critical discussion. what we did in utah was a little different than what is happening in some other places. i was looking for a more positive vision about what does this look like. i do not believe that government should discriminate on the basis of race ever at all . i take a universal approach.

i am a student of dr. king and the civil rights movement. this idea that a white person can't understand what someone of color has experienced. i get that. i can't put my place in your shoes. i don't know what that's like but i do know universalism that we are all humans first and that i can understand what needs to be said or heard -- or attacked unjustly. i think that is very important. more to the point, i think the government should never use that power. it is counterproductive and will always be counterproductive. the more we divide ourselves into groups the worst off we will be. what i said was de i is really tough because there is de i the words and then there is a very

defiant and political philosophy that is also di or di comes from that. it's postmodernism and colonialism. there's been a lot of work done on this. i won't rehash all of that, but i believe it is an ideology that is counterproductive and can ultimately be dangerous and the government should be engaged in the discrimination to elevate certain races or ethnic groups or sexualities that have been oppressed in the past. i think it's incredibly problematic. that is why i pushed back. what we did in utah was very different. what we said was government can't do that. we can't discriminate. we can't require you to submit a statement pledging allegiance to de i to get hired or advance. we did not defund the ei.

what we said is we will use that to help people who are struggling. we should be looking at first- generation college students. we should be looking to help anybody who is struggling toward obtaining a college degree. we should be looking at those who come from poverty and don't have the same opportunities as other people. that will disproportionately help minorities in the state of utah but it will not discriminate distinctly on the basis of skin color. it will help them. people will disagree with me, for me that is where it starts. >> obviously that is utah. the governor from maryland how do you see this issue? listening to his description how do you have that conversation? how do you express your own views which i assume have some differences. how does that evolve? >> i remember the morning of

our inauguration some people were there. we actually started the inauguration that morning at the annapolis docs. the annapolis docs, they are beautiful but that's not why we started the morning together. the reason we started down there is because of the history of the annapolis docs. the annapolis docs was one of this country's first down largest city ports. we started down there and we said a prayer to the ancestors and then we marched from the docs up to the statehouse. it was at that statehouse which was built by the hands of enslaved people that i was inaugurated as the 63rd governor in the state and the first black governor in the history of the state of maryland. i remember some of the coverage

that i heard where immediately it was like, well, he started his inauguration with indoctrination. he starting the inauguration with the ei. i started my inauguration with history. that is history. i think there is this really warped conflation of what we mean when we are talking about. again not coming from a political world, this politicization of this idea of what we are simply asking is that we want everyone to be acknowledged for who they are. we want everyone to feel accepted for who they are with their family history, with their family lineage. there is never a room where somebody is in there because somebody is trying to make a point or because somebody is doing it out of kindness or a

social experiment. i want everybody in my state to know that every room you are in you are in that room because you belong there and you are in that room because it would be incomplete if you were not there. the idea that making sure everything from the curriculum to how we are building up a society. we want to society that looks like the places that we call home. focusing on inclusion, focusing on making sure that you have an administration that looks like the state. making sure you are not getting to a point of -- i agree with governor cox. i just don't believe the role of government is telling people what they should and should not read, what books should and should not be in libraries or telling people whose history is worth reading and understanding and his is not. that is where i believe pass the acronyms or politicization this is something about being willing to understand and it

knowledge our own history. if we are willing to do that people say the reason they are doing this is because they don't want people to feel that. the reason it is happening is because of people don't understand their history they don't understand their power. that is the reason i walk into every room with my head high and chest out. i know my history. >> you know that there are governors that do believe there should be restrictions on how history is taught. >> i would say i'm not one of those. >> i did not say you were. >> if you read the last thousand words of my post, i talk specifically about the importance of teaching correct history. i do think it is important. four of those governors that are doing that, that we have to as a society be honest as to what is the motivation.

it's not all tourism. it's not because they don't want people to feel bad. there is something deeper as to why all aspects of society in a matter who you are, why they don't want you to understand the journey that we have all collectively taken. >> we are at the end of our time but i want to close with the question to each of you. where will we be on all of this in five years? i'm asking you to look at a crystal ball but what do you think? where are we heading? >> i am a natural optimist. i'm going to take that approach. i believe pendulums always swing . i think this one will swing as well. it is very easy for all of us to say, we do this all the time. this is the most important election of our lifetime.

what if i were to tell you that is not true. we have survived the last eight years. we had two presidents that really most americans did not want to be president and yet here we are. we have made it through. i see some kind of green shoots of spring coming up where people are starting to recognize this. when we launch this initiative i thought, i thought people would think i was crazy or be angry. it has turned out to be a lot less than that. it seems the exact opposite. where finding that there are groups all across the country that are deeply engaged in the work of depolarization. they are wonderful groups. i could name dozens of them. they care deeply about this. polling is showing us that

americans are desperate. there's a market failure and politics. neither party is taking advantage. neither party is capitalizing on it. somebody will at some point. i don't just share this because i think it is the right thing for america to do, but i think it should be altruistic. i believe that. i wish more people did. i also think it is just good politics. i really do believe it is good politics. i believe that you will be rewarded for treating your opponents with dignity and respect. i think the public will be okay with the republican and democratic sitting on stage having this conversation. they want to engage. they want to know what you think about the ei even if they disagree with you.

they will respect you for sharing it not just in 280 characters on twitter, but when you are actually willing to have a thoughtful conversation. i believe there are more people like wes than aren't and i am betting on it. i think five years from now we will be much better especially when both major parties are forced to have new candidates. [laughter] >> governor, where will we be? >> we will be in a better place. i really believe that for two reasons. one, i think about something that governor cox said. i am a student of history. i love history. as difficult as times are now, it's important to add a historic context. i go through this exercise sometimes where even when i'm having a tough day or things did not go well

or things don't look good, the thing i would ask people to do is spend time reading history. it adds a sense of context. for example, if i'm having a bad day i think to myself imagine having a conversation with frederick douglass and explaining to him how difficult my day was. imagine having a conversation with harriet tubman. imagine a true conversation saying, i just have to tell you about my day today. and then see the look that she will give you. we have to remember the historic context of the evolution of this country. of the evolution of our state's. i think we do that and we are willing to do with those who came before us did which is go do the work and not just simply give up or retreat that i think we are guiding ourselves to a

better place. i remember one of my first days of governor the first trip i took outside was out to a place in western maryland. they were having a boil water advisory because they were having a water crisis. i went to see a guy named mayor colburn. when i first met him he said, governor, do me a favor. turn 360 degrees. so i turned. he said, the only guarantee i can give you is you did not see a democrat within five miles of anywhere you just looked. he said, but you know what, you are the first governor that has been here since 1996. you have to do the work. i am a big believer in this idea. i believe and i have faith that we will be better.

as the holy book says faith without works is not going to get us there. we have to understand our history and understand the trajectory and we will be fine. faith without works is dead. you have to do the work. >> it still bends toward justice. it's never been a direct line, ever. it is still not. sunday somebody like wes will run for president and i will probably campaign for the other side, but our country will be much better off if and when that happens. >> it will be much better off when what happens? >> if and when that happens. >> that is the subject of the next luncheon. let's give a big hand. [applause]

>> beautiful. that is gorgeous. ♪ ♪♪

>> earlier today president biden spoke at a holocaust remembrance ceremony held at the u.s. capitol, a yearly event organized by the united states holocaust memorial museum in washington, d.c. watch lisa max -- these remarks tonight on c-span. >> on wednesday the house oversight committee looks at the washington, d.c. response to pro-palestinian protest at george washington university. the protests allegedly involve anti-semitism. mayor mario bowser and the police chief, watch on c-span three or our mobile video up or online at c- span.org. >> friday nights, watch the

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