i am dean of georgetown university and i am delighted to be here to introduce her to afternoon panels. in keeping with the objective of the conference which is to connect leading thinkers of the global south and north, i am particularly delighted georgetown university is a proud cosponsor of this event. you heard earlier this week from one of our students road scholar

she is many respects representative almost 500 students for more than 70 countries to enroll in her bachelors in foreign service part of the discussion on georgetown discussions are urgently needed. the divisions were witnessing globally are more pronounced and disconcerting than any. at least in my lifetime. we are beset by wars and bear witness to unspeakable atrocities in the gaza, the west bank, ukraine, yemen, institutions included many elite universities in this country are on the receiving end of sustained and i'm sad to say effective attacks. some problems facing humanity cannot and will not be sold by anything single state actor to

many of the people we most urgently need to come to the table often do not show up. or if they do they talk down to others or ask others. ironically at the same time not enough people are seriously communicating we live in a world that avalanche of words. they cloak our screens words it often empty or toxic. the communication technology of today make it possible for people on opposite sides of the world to connect instantly. it we are more fractured, polarized and disconnected than ever. the midst of all the ceaseless talking of one another we lost the ability to listen. desperately need either to learn or relearn that still we just dostart listening to people who historically have been denied a voice such as the palestinians

the struggle for liberation has become synonymous with the imperative to feed the people of the world this is why we are here today. not to rehash what is wrong but to figure out how to get things right. how to put things back on track or in track for the first time. we are here to foster what pope francis calls a culture of encounter. constructive conversation peaceful equitable world for which we yearn become a reality unless and until we embrace a new framework for engagement and discussion. it's built in 1990s not with the rest of the world and not for the entire world. lift up of the conversation now has our attention which is why we must create new spaces for global dialogue.

spaces that accommodate rising powers and the voices of the global south who is you will hear shortly may be able to help avert escalating tensions between the u.s. and china for example. assuming the superpowers begin to value the perspective of course but we need new frameworks to spaces in more inclusive conversations but spaces that also accommodate people whose idealism is on but anxiety over the political economic, social and environmental futures are understandably accused. we need to give greater voice to each of its students and encourage them to work together across borders that have positive change which is exactly what we're doing at georgetown. to engage with the world from within the world to study global phenomena in history for the

global perspective. the liberal world class education to future leaders who otherwise would not access it. the exchange of ideas between the faculty and students indo hot in washington d.c. encompasses both campuses enables truly globally minded mission that's consistent with the universities just what values of caring for each other and for the world we inhabit. our campus in delhi expanding global initiatives which include establishing a presence in indonesia is more difficult today than it perhaps ever was. i am honored to join our faculty and students as we seek to learn from more attentively listen to each other. and now to our panels this afternoon for our first panel with solidarity will examine search of nationalism around the world. how under cuts efforts to forge a vibrant society the new

approaches that must be adopted to foster transnational solidarity and action. our second panel cold or 2.0 the view from the rest of the world will explore disastrous implications for the international community of the cold war between the u.s. and china escalates good panel will consider how other countries that national institutions advance national movements might attempt to avert a u.s./china confrontation. so at this point i would like to invite who will be in a conversation with our moderator "new york times" opinion columnist to come to the stage and kick off our first panel. thank you very much.

great crowd. thank you so much for coming out. when incredibly esteemed group. their heart out at 3:15 p.m. so absolutely ruthless tutorial moderator. keep the trains running on time. already down one. [laughter] it is incredibly fitting we're having this conversation about global solidarity at a moment when the entire country is seized with astonishingly powerful protest movement led by young people in solidarity with the nation in the global south i would argue is the most unique of our solidarity and that is palestine. i spent much of last week on

campus with the students attending protests. hanging out with them while they are waiting for their classmates to get out of jail. it has been a really extraordinary thing to witness. i definitely want to hear what you will have to say about that. but to step back a little bit the early years of the millennium, they promised and some might say threatens, a moment of global convergence the technological age that is going to accelerate the borders and globalization was going to make assault richer and happier. this technological can do spirit. this relied on a continuation of the trajectory that was set by the global north and the global south had little say in. and in many ways it not work for the global south even as the global south was condescendingly

being ushered upward on quote unquote development and prosperity supposedly more modern a vision of how the global north had grown rich. we all know because you've written so eloquently in various ways about it, what actually happened and how it all came crashing down. there are couple themes i'm going to introduce each of your couple big themes on every inch of top of mind in this conversation. one that i sense and all of your work is a brief report refusal of binaries. ideas of hardin separation. the idea that things can be both and that the theme i would really like to explore. the other is an abiding belief in the privacy of human agency. that are emergent all trite in

our various fields to keep these places of interconnectedness. might real hope is we can focus on what is the glue that we can emphasize that brings us to greater solidarity and what are the solvents that are dissolving the bonds between us had a weak pushback against them? so next to me i do not to lose a minute of our conversational time. professor of social sciences at the university of buenos aires she's a fabulous, political activist of political theorist. she has written many books on many topics including liberalism, feminism, and so on. and very excited to talk with you about your work. sit in the boat he's a polyp map

a and ranjit hoskote is a theorist and the curator who has worked, deeply influential and centers on complex presence of cultural pluralism. he has written many books, i won't bore you by naming all of them but i'm very excited to talk about our relationship to history among many other things. kohei saito is a contemporary marxist thinker, his work centers on questions of growth, questions of climate and how we can start to think about what a future beyond growth might look like. his influential book slowdown, the de-growth manifesto was published earlier this year in english. a huge bestseller in japan. peter beinart is a professor of journalism and political

science at a colleague whose work i am proud to appear alongside from time to time. it is fair to say that peter, whether as a teacher or editor at large, a commentator, has emerged as a really essential voice to explore ideas and paths forward in a situation that feels utterly hopeless and someone i've turned too many times. then we have joel hellman of the school of foreign service at georgetown. more importantly, he is also someone who has worked all across the globe, in poverty alleviation, the world bank, conflict moderation, resolution in kenya. we have neighbors in delhi and

rubber ducks together and someone who has a lot of really fascinating things to say about the crucial role america can play, a role not of domination but of collaboration. i really need to shut up now. i've talked for a long time. let's dive in. i want to start with you, veronica. i would love to hear you reflect on what we are seeing on university campuses today. you obviously helped, were a major part of the protests in 2019, half a million people came out. walk us through what is required to build those coalitions for movement like that who have that size and power and what are your reflections for the students who are out there marching today?

>> thank you for the presentation. it is important for us. it's very powerful, that image of the students in the campus protesting. it is a powerful call against the genocide, a powerful image and also i think nowadays the universities, political activism in argentina, a huge manifestation for public education against the current government, and he wants to defend and catch all those for public universities and in france there are other protests

at the universities so the youth activism at the universities, it is an anti-intellectual protest. for me, very interesting issue to see a politicization, and how we empower our universities and how we build and expand our alliance because in argentina it is very important how political activism at universities and the main issue is how to build alliances with other sectors and to produce a very inclusive political movement. i think that is also a challenge. all the calculations, you have

your protests, your demand, and the political challenge is to produce a political translation of our struggles and try to connect and try to produce a dimension of political demands so for me it is a vital thing to see the uprising in the campus here and a way to rethink what is knowledge nowadays, what is the function of knowledge, what is the function of social media to translate those images in political messages in other places and how we produce a connection between very

different landscapes. >> this idea of thinking about linkages and ways to bring people together, feminism has that global dimension. what of -- one of the things about your work, you work a lot with the past and we are living in a time of deep obsession with in the past. we have revenge movements on the right in india, really in most of these cases a fictionalized past that never really existed and it strikes me that at the core of your work is an effort to recast our relationship with the past and use it to help us understand the present but also loosen the bonds that the past might hold on us. talk a little bit about that and how it might apply to the struggles we are talking about

today. >> thank you for that. i would like to say how amazed and excited i am to be here in the us at this particular time. i never thought i would see anything like this. i belong to a generation that regretted not having been around in 1968. sdf, students were democratic society, we inherited from the generation that preceded us. and to see the scene of revolution playing out in this way here in the hearts of the world order has been so you story in many ways. among many other things it reminds us, crafting a political location is not only

thinking about how we belong but also about, very importantly what we stand against. and to do it in this transnational, trans regional way to me is truly hopeful. it reminds me for instance of the kinds of worldviews we grew up with in south asia that have to do with nonalignment but i will get to that an amendment. i want to say what we are seeing around the world today in terms of the rise of fascism, or refer we see these autocratic totalitarian regimes that want to work from a very narrow and monopolistic view, singular view of the past to my mind only plays up and dramatizes a fundamental

apology in any nationstate, the modern nation state as we all know this and sometimes forget it, the modern nationstate stand on the ground of exclusion. exclusion and expulsion and i think rather than work with negative, destructive, working out of effective notion of what tradition is i found it very useful, how do you bear witness, how do you expressly retreat memories that complicate your sense of who you are, complicate your sense of what your past is. in our own case in india because we've inherited a particular colonial cartography, we cut ourselves off from replenishing connections we had through indian net networks through

east africa and all of that, this is one example, to seek these connections out because it helps us to get away from historical narratives. that is part, this leads me to think about figures like a border crosser, crucial figures we need to keep in mind but i also want to think of a more proximate temporal horizon. thinking of postcolonial visions of collaboration across borders that had a much more optimistic and redemptive narrative to offer us, thinking of all these events of the 1950s, the affirmation of solidarity congress in cairo and the emergence of the nonaligned difference.

this was characterized particularly here as giving up of the responsibility of standing with the free world against the soviet bloc. it was really about not losing the hard won freedom of the anti-colonial struggle and make our own way in the world and seek out our own destiny. we have to draw on those histories too and strikes me as i'm speaking that speaking of the global south as postcolonial. empires that have lost their colonies live both conceptually and in material terms for the outcomes of loss of empire, equally involved in this enterprise. i would like us all to think

together about this common predicament and to see how they process this. i am getting to the point of anecdotes as you can see, when i think of my generation which came of age in the 18th and 19th drew on. we were inspired and informed by replenishing forms of pedagogy that came to us from latin america. thinking strongly of the oppressed and critical society so i want us to think of how these circulations from below, if you will, are still important, how do we recover them, continue with them? i will leave it there but take up an experimental radical redemptive pedagogy as a way of

dealing with many of our present questions. >> i would love to come to that and to the nuclear fallout of that imperial experience. i would love to hear you talk about, all of us have a fantasy of limitless growth. help us understand why it is a fantasy and how protectionist marxism and late capitalism running around in this particular moment, one of the most exciting and challenging ideas in your work is the decoupling of abundance from growth. talk about how we move beyond the 0-sum of the neoliberal models? >> i talk about it in the last

few days and you will be bored to hear the same thing over and over and thank you for people coming to this global dialogue because it is george washington day and i would love to -- sorry. georgetown day. georgetown day today. i would love to join but i had to come today because i didn't come here today. because i actually participated in demonstrations with the students for the palestinian people, and these students at george washington university and stayed for a couple hours, changed my perception of the dubai which is the topic of our discussion. i want to talk about it. when i talk about the context

of this, global north is always associated with the cost of people in global south which leads to part of the divide and that is why the global north needs a different idea of abandonment and so on and so on which kind of affirms the divide is between global north and south or allocated in the divide between the us and russia, the us and china, the divide is outside or projected somewhere outside but that perception of the divide functions like ideology in the sense of hiding the true divide within the us and this divide within the us is associated with republicans and democracy

and right wing fascism might come to the us. it is not particular to the us. it is everywhere in europe. yesterday, the student protests and arresting those students, came to my conclusion that the divide is actually within our own groups because after the president of columbia university, ordering to arrest their own students which is a very different kind of accident that is going on, white woman professor of the university, getting arrested, this is really different kind of police

action, not like black people getting arrested by the order of donald trump. those people with whom i usually have great respect ordering to arrest students and do something against those students who are in a peaceful manner arguing, demanding a cease-fire or something like that. these are the basic ideas of democracy, human rights, diversity, these are ideas i really endorse and that is why i came to the us as an undergraduate student, to study those ideas because i thought the us was much better place than japan where things are more comparative. i wanted to come to the us to study about all things but after 20 years it seems democracy in the us is in crisis but not because of trump. this is something really new

that we have to think about because otherwise countries like russia and china, say this is a double standard, democracy doesn't exist and so on. this is not something that we want to do. the insufficiency of democracy and diversity and other kinds of concepts like justice and human rights. this is universal ideas must be preserved. we cannot have some sort of cynicism so in order to do this we need to see it in a different way. in this sense, i wanted yesterday to express my solidarity with those students who are drawing to bring out a true universality instead of rejecting that kind of idea of universal freedom or simply being satisfied with the

eurocentric, idea of democracy. >> one of the things i've seen in these protests among the people who are, let's just call them us, the nice, educated, progressive people is the strong desire to draw a clear line between college students and other elements who are protesting in to see this that yes, we can be supportive even if we have questions of the college students who are protesting but not the anarchists who are aligned with them or the more radical elements. there is an interesting binary thinking as well, the insider outsider questions that come with that.

i feel like we've been watching you go through the questions at the heart of this discussion in real time in a personal and anguished way since october 7th. i am not going to attempt to serve up a question. what do you want to talk about? >> we are in the middle of the holiday of passover, i have been thinking about the way in which jews and other people tell certain stories about ourselves which has certain implications and not open to different kinds of stories. i've been thinking of the story of passover can be told as a nationalistic story. i came across something about the text of passover in the

1956 war imagining the egyptians of that story is the egyptians of nasser's government and how they would be destroyed but the jewish tradition imagines a story many of the jews didn't leave egypt because they decided to accept their bondage and a group of non-israelites left, this exodus is not in israel exodus. this mixed multitude of all kinds of people who take the opportunity and to suggest in the 10th plague, the killing of the firstborn, that imagines that firstborn as many of those firstborn egyptians being killed by their own parents because they were in and up raising against pharaoh's subjugation and i think those stories, seems to be what

people in this movement are trying to do which is tell a different kind of story about what it means to be jewish and what it means to be palestinian, think behind the notion of a tribal conflict and for me in particular, talking about africans, to meet it rehearses i think an old jewish conversation which happened in various places about the question of where our security lies. i think when i watch this debate between republicans in congress are in line with the american jewish establishment saying security for jews lies in an alliance with us, in the building of an f known nationalist white judeo-christian supremacist state versus jewish students in the encampments. i think it brought me back to

this moment in 1964, all of the white defendants are jews, two of the five defense lawyers are jews and that is the part to think about, people tend to think about that but what people tend to focus on last was the prosecutor, the deputy attorney general was also jewish, quite prominent figure in jewish circles and he was the man who prosecuted mandela. what was happening in this debate between people like dennis goldberg and lionel bernstein was the question about who jews would align with her safety, is it to look upwards towards a dominance group that offers you whiteness and offers a kind of security of the powerful or is it to join in a kind of new idea of

the mixed multitude of people from many backgrounds who have their own stories of oppression and i think thinking in those terms is something that's being done by young people. often very much against open conflict with their own communities they were raised in an their own parents and it is a remarkable thing to see and the thing that all of the horror the last 6 months of seeing, what i have found is the most powerful and moving thing to me is to see the way this group of young american jews and by other people and the way i talked to a doctor in gaza a few weeks ago and asked what he had noticed about things happening outside in the world, this is a man who was practicing medicine under the most unspeakable conditions,

and he said i came across this jewish voice for peace and all of us were talking about it in our clinic. so to me that is a vision of a global solidarity that certainly was not produced in my generation but maybe will be produced by this generation. >> incredibly powerful. we think about the world we're living in now, we think about the world was created by the united states, and the united states, the nice way to describe it is we've been engaged in trying to pull other countries up with us, and have complicated relationships for particular reasons. i think you have a sense of how the united states is missing

opportunities and making a complete hash of the opportunity to manage the transition from one world to another. what transition is happening? >> i'm happy to talk about it. i'm trying to think which hat of the global north you want me to wear? the university administrator had? former world bank at? i've seen many advantages of the global north but the hash up if you will, the challenge for us to think about his understanding the narrative that is a recognition that the period we have lived through in the last 30 years has had some absolutely extraordinary shifts in the well-being of humanity around the world.

whether the narrative is america pooled that up which is not a narrative i would share nevertheless of recognition that 1.5 billion people in a 30 year span have moved out of extreme poverty and with that, extraordinary, truly extraordinary shifts in almost every indicator of global well-being still excluding enormous part of the population, with that extra ordinarily important caveat but nevertheless recognize these 30 years for all of the exclusions, all the differences, all the conflict we have had all the divisions nevertheless produced this extraordinary shift in global well-being. the problem i have is that narrative because there is no alternative narrative is those a pooling up from the global north. a consensus about how things should happen that was to

spread around the world and we know that is not true. this extraordinary shift in global well-being has come about her extort me efforts that happened across the global south, in china, in india, indonesia, turkey, brazil, pakistan and bangladesh, name the group of countries who have, i think, the privilege of living and working in indonesia and india and kenya and watching this extraordinary effort in those countries of borrowing ideas from, some from the neoliberal consensus and we should be clear about that, the aspect of the neoliberal consensus they adopted but they have changed, altered, reshaped for their own benefit and what you see in the extort growth in china and india and indonesia

and bangladesh and elsewhere into something we still don't fully understand the drivers of that growth and therefore we can't fully understand how to continue to build upon that and engage others in that process that these countries have done so that gets me to wear the us is a, the us is living in a world in which it believes the story that this progress happened because the us came to the us vision. rather than saying there was this period of creativity that has done remarkable things for human well-being, that still have enormous challenges ahead and how can we learn from that, how can we build that, how can we create a new understanding of a global order that fits that and engages in that and

build on that and i think the us is trying to preserve an order in which it believes it was the dominant power to shape this rather than accepting the fact that in fact we could be harnessing the energy of this progress at a moment in which that progress is coming to a very hard stop and the thing that most worries me as we are now at that pivot point, 2020 was the exact pivot point where for the first time global poverty increased. if we start to project out what is going to happen in the next 10 to 15 years we will see a dramatic slowing and that well-being, the change in well-being and we are not seeing the us say how can we bring in the experience of countries that have done such extraordinary things and give them their rightful voice and a new global order that

recognizes and builds upon their success. i don't understand, which i had an excellent nationwide the us hasn't done it. i think if i had to give an excellent nation it is domestic politics. seating american leadership in the world is less damaging to the world and more damaging to americans perception of itself and the tiny sliver the american public voting gives to its understanding of international affairs and i think if america actually was more willing to lead in bringing in emerging voices that have achieved so much globally, rethinking a global order in which those voices had their rightful say i would think it would be extraordinarily strengthening to the united states. >> is there presumption of that at this point, are we at a

stage where the united states lacks the strength and moral authority to retain that leadership and even manage that process or are we tipping into what sort of other forms of global leadership do we see emerging that might take its place if the united states can't get its act together? >> the power of others -- it is less the imagination but more preservation of its strength, using that power to stop change. >> i think nowadays in argentina at least where i came from, a very rich country in terms of policies, we have 60% of the population under poverty

line so i think that we cannot talk about progress, postcolonial scenarios, we are leading nowadays every conversation of our region especially countries that are part of the so-called lithium triangle, chile, bolivia and argentina and i think the role of the united states that are now in argentina talking about the lithium triangle, is a traditional colonial way to approach the question. the commander visiting the country two weeks ago and the idea of constructivism as a way of developing our country, a

horrible idea, and what kind of displacement of population and what violence against territories especially indigenous population, owners of the land so i think the ideal of this kind of idea of progress and leadership, yes, access to development. we have a concrete experience of that. >> i almost have the image of neoliberalism enduring has a kind of nuclear fallout long after it has been discredited.

>> to add to that, mischaracterizing the argument as you were speaking it struck me this of course i will confine myself to india but there are obvious analogies. in the same period it looks like the economy has done brilliantly and there have been seemingly objective things, what ic is a complete leaching away of equity. ic diminishing of rights and opportunity, i see the older and new operational elements that have become more powerful, their consumption is more conspicuous and we are constantly told poverty has been dealt with, we know from lived experience and unrest or

discontent, that isn't true, fewer people have benefited and a large number of people have been left out and that has political consequences, a reservoir that plays into the worst politics so i see a completely different picture and i would like to think also of coming back to our theme of fostering global solidarity. i don't know that we can simply talk about urgency or rearrangement of what is ultimately a different order, we probably i don't think there's much to be hoped for in terms of a simpler rearrangement of rich nationstates at the table. we have to look at what's happening below, what is happening to those without

equity, without entitlement and see about other contexts, develop into in terms of solidarity of those who are there. >> i just want to say there should be some cards circulating for questions and in a couple minutes we will turn to questions. i am curious, there's a lot of discussion about us leadership right now and lots of questions in the context of israel and palestine and the administration's policies but i am also curious more generally how this kind of bubbling up from below might look like and where the most interesting and exciting possibilities are and maybe this is a question for you or peter, jump in. what are you seeing that gives a sense of possibility, other

things in the broader world, that gives an alternative to the rearrangement of the existing institution. >> i am happy to see a student who participated, they really express serious interest in the growth of communism and i didn't expect that. when i was a student at the university no one was talking about forcefully anymore, that is speculative at the university but college, maximum of course agenda items, the question of class was quite abstinent because the economy was still quite good, the age of great moderation and so on,

on the global scale, inequality was getting better so no one was questioning capitalism but it changed after years of globalization, economic inequality, the climate crisis gets worse. and we have those narratives today but this is bringing some more radical ideas in the discourse young people are interested in and this is bringing the crisis of the liberal ideas and the crisis of the establishment and this is why this power is directed against students who are being radicalized. this is what we are witnessing today and this is the moment of transformation i would say because we use to believe in the kind of narrative that the future will be better so why

don't we patiently wait the next 10 years, then everything will be better. than another 10 years, things will be even more better. the progressive idea is commonly shared by democrats, the idea of social democracy is based on this presumption of progress ive development. i think this is a moment that is very different. the climate crisis will get worse and worse and worse. the situation will be more consideration of wealth, more disasters and so on. i don't think, in that kind of situation the old social democratic ideas are no longer shared by many people especially the younger

generation because they are the ones who will experience more suffering, so they are demanding more rapid change. we cannot say, it will change only gradually and tell young students and kids that but they are right. they know more correctly what's wrong with this system and are correctly interested in the idea of liberal socialism, communism, because this is a change after the collapse of the soviet union we didn't have that but now it is changing. >> it is interesting. there are a couple phrases i wrote down from all of you that stuck with me and one from you on this subject, the possibility of solidarity of the vulnerable and you talked about the difficulty of being

a, quote, loving critic and being in community but also trying to stand up for things within that community in a way that could engender solidarity or keep the conversation going in the hopes of solidarity. what does that look like, being a loving critic? >> often it is in the eye of the beholder. you may think you're being loving but it may not be perceived that way by a lot of other people. i think this is something i really struggle with a lot because the question is, what is the vocabulary that is available to try to show a sense of solidarity or commitment that will mean anything to the people you are trying to speak to when you want to say you believe that

they as a collective have very badly -- i find i am constantly trying out different things that might be some way of establishing that sense of love and solidarity that doesn't cost me the criticism i want to make but doesn't blunt the force of the criticism i want to make and it's very difficult to do that because one -- in the case of israel and jews and there may be analyzed in other cases what you see if you scratch the surface is the establishment whether there is really government or american jewish establishment, its own discourse of solidarity turns out to be not as it looks to me like an actual defense of jewish safety but a defense of a certain power position, you

have this very strange situation where there's a discourse that tries to delegitimize and criminalize pro-palestine protests because they are a threat to jewish students but anyone who spent time on a college campus will know the jews are overrepresented in these protest movements. you are calling for the armrest and suspension, expulsion, sometimes quite brutal arrest of students, disproportionate number of whom are jewish in the name of jewish safety but you have a definition of jewish safety and solidarity cut out an entire group of people who became not jewish because they are politically in opposition and that seems to me an important lesson for a lot of people to learn, you might think you have safety in a certain identity category but

if you move outside of it and this goes to your point, part of the picture of this economic professor at a marine university was so jarring because let's be honest, we see pictures like that all the time in america but we don't usually see economic professor saying i am a white economics professor. you step outside of this and realize actually may be these identities don't protect you if politically you for your too far off and then it makes you think a little differently about where your solidarity actually lies, that's a question some younger american jews are having to face as it happens today, there was a protest led by friends of mine in israel who were arrested, group of rabbis, trying to bring flower to the border with gaza, arrested and it's happening with harsh repercussions. they are seeing israel the same point which is how a jewish

state built on the claim of jewish safety, what kind of safety doesn't look at if you challenge that stayed in the name of the beliefs that you have? >> that video was pretty incredible, crying, i got on my god and that is what it looks like to discover, in this order everything you thought you knew. i will go to some student questions, some bright people in this room. first question. volunteer i will pick on you. do you see ai and digital communication is critical tools in fostering global solidarity's? where are they more likely to increase divisions in the world today? who wants to take that on? >> technology is a very good way of communicating, it really increased in certain movements like me too, black lives matter

and the climate justice movement. it had that but we all know social network, media, hate speech, fake news and so on. it is just -- i cannot say anything at this moment. >> that is very interesting, to think in what sense digital communications could be a tool for political communications so we were discussing how the practice of political community and communication tools can be used inside this objective of building a political community

so i think it is useful to think in that kind of connection rather than the theme of isolated technologies. >> my primary relationship with social media, we haven't talked about ai so let's put that to the side, was one of absolute and thrombin. i was a young foreign correspondent who moved to india and i had access to so many interesting people. i have to have located them somewhere somewhere and the worm turned and garbage fire. it is not the real world, you are talking to people like you and we pulled back from social media and said we are not going to be involved anymore and when i tell people, what's the twitter handle, the twitter handle is there but i'm not on twitter anymore.

they are associated with it is important for organizing, my refusal is a kind of hardy superiority, don't get into the muck, more concerned about the preservation of my time and not getting sucked, and we should go back on twitter, twitter, those of us who experienced it at that time, too much, it was an exhilarating thing and i

wonder if we gave too much and bought in ideas about the role of technology that made us more passive rather than active. how can we emphasize the importance of global solidarity given the trend toward isolationism in the us? are there ways for the us to remain in positive ways? you have some thoughts and missed opportunities. >> it should have surprised me that the us doesn't take the opportunity to say especially in light of its fixation on the cognitive panel, the shift to a new cold war seems to me this is an extraordinary opportunity for the united states to engage with other countries in a true

dialogue about what reshaping the institutional things in some kind of multilateral system we have, and impact that actually even in its own cold war mentality, if it was the country that was going after, this is time to change, these institutions we created 75 years ago in a completely different global situation have run their course and we believe this is the most opportune time at a pivotal moment in global history to start to rethink these institutions and for us to be an important player, there is very little domestic, if you will, opposition to it because i don't think this is a very important issue in the domestic political dialogue in the united states, which gives

freedom for the us to play a very different role than the global order that would ultimately i think do much better job in engaging the rest of the world in this competition that the us is so worried about in the cold war to say we are a country that is deeply open for rethinking this in a different way. it's frustrating why the us doesn't take the opportunity to play that leadership or that role in saying we are open to forums that re-create and rethink these institutions and put that on a global agenda. >> a question. >> one of the things i worry about is i don't think, we don't have pipelines that are very effective for ordinary americans, diversity of american influence and making of american foreign policy.

one of the critical moments i think i look back to is the moment of the bernie sanders campaign in 2,020, an insurgent campaign and the way of those came out of the occupy movement and became a transmission mechanism for some rethinking in the democratic party on economic questions and a bit of a move away from the ideas prevalent during the clinton and obama administrations, there was no pipeline through the sanders campaign to influence the biden administration's foreign policy so you have a kind of president who in some ways looks a little like a latter-day lyndon johnson, has internalized certain progressive tendencies from below onto mystic policy but on foreign policy is locked into a very rigid, seems to me, kind of cold war vision that actually the american public

has not bought into and a whole group of americans out there who could think about foreign policy in a really different ways. one of the most disastrous things about these are palestine debate is it serves as a filter that filters out people who might have other views on foreign policy in general. i read elana omar's transcript for how she behaves on house foreign affairs committee, the questions asked are so radically different than almost everyone else on the committee because they weren't coming from the exceptional's perspective, they were the kinds of questions you might get if you put someone from niger on the committee or someone from south asia on the committee, she's asking those questions, why does america have troops here, what are they doing as opposed to how does america counter russia chinese influence in this part of the world and because it prevents those people, we don't have strong voices in congress talking about america's policy on china and taiwan which is the potential greatest calamity besides climate change that i see, a massive third world war, we don't have those voices

there. even in a democratic administration. >> on india she was an important voice and the committee, a tremendous loss because the lack of sophistication of the american approach to india is mind-boggling to me. >> america taking responsibly for the mess they created but at the same time americans want biden or trump to take that leadership, right? so it is hard. >> we have time for one more question. we have a hard stop. this is a good one and perhaps you can jump in on this. how can transnational solidarity realistically evil all beyond the nation state especially considering current global fragmentation and the appeal of nationalism?

>> sorry. i will build off of the plan because i had a point here, i tend to be a great connoisseur of irrelevant things that i want to talk a little bit about the idea of traditional and organic intellectuals and there's room for that discussion here because what tends to happen with foreign policy, it is completely to preserve the dominion of the culture of a delightful word, wonks, they tend not always to be open to other kinds of criteria and questions about what might define the relationship among countries. so the entire mode tends to be competitive, alliances are with elites with whom you share certain core values which are always defined in geopolitical and ultimately military terms and everything else is somehow

characterized by questions that have to do with what i was talking about earlier, what you do with entitlements, the rights of women in other nationstates you are dealing with or religious minorities, what do you have to say about ways in which you might build capacity to fight the climate catastrophe? pushes you into the scenario where i don't want to make a caricature of this but there are elites that will not give up and we'll see global alliances that bring the powerful together and the voices of the vulnerable are always somehow left out of this so the challenge is how to get these together and find ways to participate in the larger political processes. i don't have a prognostication how this is to be done but i think this is something to recognize which is one reason it cannot be business as usual.

>> the different franchise is what we need. i will call time because we are at time but what a fantastic conversation. wonderful treat to talk to you all. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> today on c-span a discussion on the biden administration's tax policy priorities live from the brookings institution beginning at 10:thirty a.m. eastern and in the afternoon the affordable housing conference of montgomery county, maryland hold its 33rd annual summit with congress when jamie raskin and glenn ivy and acting housing secretary adrian tomlin among the speakers, watch that event live

starting at one:30 eastern on c-span. also on c-span now our free mobile video apps or online, c-span.org. >> c-span has been delivering unfiltered congressional coverage for 45 years. has a highlight from a key moment. >> something else i saw firsthand wasn't a surprise to me but it was the outpouring of love from you, my colleagues, both republican and democrat. i know right after the shooting, we were practicing on the republican side and the democrats were practicing too, my colleague and friend and sometimes arch rival in baseball from back home in new orleans, the star of the game too many times, cedric richmond, somehow figured out which hospital i was sent to and got there probably the first person on the scene in his baseball uniform to check on me, so many others of you, both republican and democrat,

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