and i get that. i get that question at every talk. i mean, it's amazing few degrees of separation there are between us and the people the women who served during world war two. and it's always so wonderful to see adult children of of particularly women$$ who served who were so proud of their mothers service and curious about it. so if you go to my website site which is liza mundy dot com, i have a tab that that provides information about how you can research your mother's wartime service. believe it or not, personnel from world war two are public and anybody can request them. they don't all exist. but the ones that exist can be very enlightening so if you go to my website, i wish you well on your journey because it yield some really fascinating information thank you. michael thurmond is the chief executive officer of dekalb

county, georgia. he's the author of freedom. georgia's anti-slavery has. heritage 1733 to 1865, which received georgia historical society's leila hawes award, the georgia historical records advisory council awarded thurmond a lifetime achievement award for his contributions to the research and preservation of african-american georgia history. thurmond has previously served in the georgia legislature as director of georgia's division of family and children services and as georgia labor commisoner and as superintendent of dekalb schools. please give a warm savannah welcome to michael thurmond.

good morning. first let me$( express my sincee appreciation to ms. rachel young fields, the president of the savannah book feiv of directors. i think she's here to give a round of applause. thank so much, rachel. tara setter and mickey and all the staff. it is truly an honor and a privilege to have been invited to this bookl, which is one of, if not the most prestigious book festivals in these united states of america. come on in,h. give yourself a round of applause. delighted to be standing in the historiculchurch. it is a unique honor to be here at this mother church and

briefly, i will draw a connection between methodist and oglethorpe and a young evangelist's name, john wesley, who has the coal to come to this wilder georgia to christianize and is enslaved people, native indians as well as british colonists. i won't waste my time, but i must acknowledge a historic figure in the history of savannah, and that is the former mayor. mayor otis johnson. dr. johnson, where you. give him a round of applause. thank you so much. he has been a friend and a role model who waab marry political ambition with intellectual prowess. he's a brilliant person and i'm just honored he's in the room.

october 7th,. 1996. gray, low. hanging clouds greeted us as we entered the paris church of all saints in the village of cranham, which was located about 90 miles outside of london. it was the last stop on a four day pilgrimage to celebrate the throne hundredth anniversary of the birth of general james edward oglethorpe. as you know, general oglethorpe and his beloved wife, elizabeth, a buried beneath the floor of this venerable church, 700 year old church, and near his tomb following his death, his wife, elizabeth, commissioned a marble

plaque. and this plaque contains a long platitudes of this man's long and illustrious career. having served in parliament, military hero, advocate in press in the royal navy, he fought against debt of prisoners and passed legislation that resulted in the release of 10,000 british to us. and on. and on. and on. for any of you like myself who will educate it in the schools, public or private here in georgia. these were things we were familiar with that we learned in junior high school or middle school, but then literally my mind was riveted to eight words.

one passage carved in the white marble, words i first read. and process says in disbelief accomplishments, i saw something in that literally stunned me. eight words. he was the friend of the oppressed --. the father of georgia james oglethorpe, according to his wife, who commissioned the plaque. he was thehe oppressed --. i rejected it.

i thought it to be puffery, but i could not move from that spot. the rest of the 57 of 56 member delegates then were ushered to a meeting hall. and i stood motionless, encas in the silence, reading and rereading that passage. he was the friend of the oppressor. this --. thus began a 27 year journey. and by the way, to one person who every step of all 27 years, my wife zola, she's here. give a round of applause. only here, but that stunning assertion, that stunning assertion has literally changed my prevailing narrative of oglethorpe and the trustees and

their attempt to prohibit slavery in the georgia colony was that? yes, they sought to prohibit slavery, but it lacked concern for enslaved blacks. their only real goal was to protect the safety and the moral of white colonies. and generations of historians have promoted that particular narrative. well, i set out i wish i could say i set out to write a book that would come to a conclusion that james oglethorpe made this journey from slave trader to abolitionist. but i would not be telling you the truth. i really set out to prove that that eight word statement was a lie. how could the father of georgia

care about black people? i spent a week or so almost two weeks trying to understand the early 18th century, meaning of the word friend. because obviously, you know, we unfree and and free and people with the touch of a burden. so maybe oglethorpe didn't have that ability. so we start on this journey. but one of the things that i wanted to share with you, because the prevailing narrative was so powerful and so pervasive that that carving in order for me to begin to engage this narrative bodies journey. one of the things i've learned is that unlearning is more difficult than learning. equally as important, but much

more difficult because throughout our history, some things we assumed to be incontrovertible. facts or not facts. they are basically opinions, ral it from what facts? so what are some of the points in history that we really have to come to grips with? understand this journey of james oglethorpe. and by the way, one of the things i've said over and over again, i don't come to do to to argue that james oglethorpe or this perfect guy, this saint, he was not he didn't begin or start out as an abolitionist. the arc that he travel is james oglethorpe, deputy governor of the royal african company. the royal african company was the principal slave trade, an enterprise in early 18th century

britain. they this company themselves, transported over 200,000 captives to the caribbean and to the north american■o colonies. but this book really is about is this journey. but the subtext, if a nonfiction book can have a subtext is not what he became, but his journey who he became. we live in a world today where the one thing a politician can't do in james oglethorpe was a politician, a member of the the british parliament, the one thing you can never do is it. you are what wrong. because if you admit you are wrong and if you try to change to a more correct position, you are then -- as being weak.

that of hill nationals who told me mike is better to be strong and wrong, then weak and right. but james always demonstrated thebility to change, to evolve, to grow. when he was here, he was anti-slavery and by the way, prohibiting slavery insdiction y doesn't necessarily mean you want it to abolish slavery, but you wanted to create, as he said, a zion in the wilderness. well, hard working people through their own labor now sweat could earn a living to support themselves and their families. he detested slavery. he simply because he didn't think people profit. unjustly from the weight, from

the work of others. we all know about underground railroad. it is the cornerstone of african-american history that the johnson and we know about those brave and courageous african-americans seeking freedom who follow what the freedom the north star. right. and you would end up either in a free state or work nation. canada. out of south carolina and later out of georgia. once slavery was legalized. what this book teaches is that underground railroad did not run north primarily. it ran sound. so. if you and i have been living in

an enslaved society in south carolina, in particular, and an, seeking to go south to freedom, where do we go to florida, let's say a florida get a man who had he said florida. low taxes. but originally. why was florida a destiny natioe florida georgia border was an international border, right? so just how canada was an international border, the georgia, florida border was what international? and what was unique about the spanish. the spanish northernmost outposts and oglethorpe that greeted him,

too. they all foot land, freedom and sanctuary to any enslaved british person. black enslaved by the british who could make it to land, freed sanctuary. but you had to join the catholic church. and if i am an enslaved black person. i would take them the any day. right. not just scores, not just hundreds,housands. but i would look and i would be surprised if there were more than a handful of us who had a myriad into the stories of the freedom seekers who went south. but that was the nation you could get to even before you arrived in florida. so that.

hmm, what's the little tune on jeopardy down in in what other nation existed between the georgia colony and spanish controlled florida? fseminole. south georgia. north florida was seminole territory. the seminole were a fully assimilated tribe of native american and bla people. now, my black for years, grandmama always told you what she would do. grandma, what you got? what. native? what bitriflowing in your veins.

okay. phonology is not a greekit. is not a cherokee word. okefenokee is a seminole word. so why would the greeks go down in name was swamp in the middle of? it' word. what i'm saying to you, we have to unlearn before we can learn. what triggered oglethorpe journey from being adapted? a governor of the royal african company to becoming what i believe before with dev was one of the first abolitionists being one of the first white british colony owners in north america to speak out against chattel slavery. what triggeredung man named diallo who was enslaved, captured on the west

african coast, enslaved in maryland in a maryland colony who convinced his enslaver to allow letter to his father, who was back on the west coast of africa. that i feel your man turn it right. number one. how was he able to do what right. a letter and number two was fedex and ups running. how is he getting the letter? well, he was educated. those who study world history know that some of the greatest and the earliest universities were actually established in africa in timbuktu, some of the first libraries. he was educated. his father was a wealthy cleric. so he wrote a letter in arabic. and believe it or not, it passed

through the hands of several white men on a 4000 mile journey from maryland back to london. and as fate would have it, this arabic letter fell into the hands of guess who james atwood oglethorpe would overthrow. it could nots2 read arabic, bute had a friend who was a professor at oxford university. he had the letter interpreted to translate. he is so affected by the contents of the letter he arranges for diallo's passage from maryland to england, where he is ultimately man made and set free. diallo becomes what he describes was described as the roaring society. he becomes lebron james, michael jackson all wrapped up into one. he ends up havindinner with the king and queen of england in my british friend's in a british.

british? ■ayes. give them up. british people are unique. they're special. give them a round of applause. they are special. they understand these things. so he and he ends up back home in modern day senegal. oglethorpe resigns from the royal african company, severed all ties with the slave trade trading firm and begins his journey towards abolition. is what oglethorpe saw in the letter was number one. if you can write, that is a characteristic of what civilization, what he saw in the letter was of a husband and a father who would express a love for his family. that's the characteristic of civilization and he saw that dialog was monotheistic. very devoted to islam.

narrative of james oglethorpe as a close is that he became one of the first humanists. he saw human beings. he embraced as fellow human beings, native americans. thomas. you know the story. who? he also asked for it back to england. he, despite a prohibition, allo jewish colonists to migrate to savannah. third oldest synagogue in america. he embrace back in england, the intellect of women. there was a group called the blue stockings and hannah moore was a member and they were reviled andc] criticized by misogynistic. i won't go there because i have a daughter, mia, although one of

the few who rose in their defense. so i suggest to you and i hope you read the book, but read it with this in mind,■j georgia, yr niece james oglethorpe today, america needs james oglethorpe today. we need leaders who are not admit you're wrong, but work towards not just changing yourself. because if you can change yourself, you can ultimately change the world which is what james oglethorpe did. we need james oglethorpe to teach us to be a bridge is to seeum of our colony became a state was not for self, but for others, not for political persuasion. who but for others? not for my church or my synagogue or my mosque.

but foror the people who look like me and vote like me and think like me. but for others. the ultimate humanitarian who, as i've said, will face original vision that we have in here in it. he's told us not to be bystanders to your own life. he told us to respect other people race, colloquy or social status. he told us to always psue, ev i wilderness surrounded by enemies, deer lurking around every corner. he told us to always pursue our bitter angels. thank.

thank you. terrific. mr. thurman, we're going to take some questions now here. but first, do you have any more questions for us? never had a speaker ask us so many questions. all right. if you have a question, please come down to the microphone. but again, please keep it ■■osuccinct. well, i do have a couple of more question for you, not just. a great speech. thank you. i was wondering if you could speak a little bit about all the thoughts, relationship thoughts that always come as kind of a symbol of the man and coming here, giving our other people's relationship with native

americans. you seem to be pretty enlightened about it. yes. and by the way, i want to acknowledge professor james brooks at the university of georgia department of history. he is the i think, one of if not the most respected experts on native american native indian history in our nation. yes, but that grew out of old thoughts, understanding of people and see, think about this. this is 17, early 1700s where african americans are so like cattle a considered to be so of human, not in possession of a redeemable soul. native americans are considered to be savages. uncivil liars. james oglethorpe had the ability with all of his flaws, to embrace talmadge geechee, to embrace the people, to spend time with them, to leave him. you just read what he said. that was one statement. he said that in my heart, i

man. yes, sir. i i'm wondering how oglethorpe dealt with. i think it was after five years when the south carolina slave economy was beating georgia and the prohibition against slavery sort of evaporate. how he dealt with that? he reinvented himself, which is a great trait that we all should have. right. if you fail, he went back to england and the narrative ise to repeal the prohibition against slavery, james oglethorpe lost interest in georgia and lost interest in thfi against slavery. not true. what james oglethorpe really did was he became a mentor to three emerging abolition and is one was granville sharpe, who is credited with being one of the founders, if not the principle founder of the british

ionist movement. the second one was equiano, who became the most influential black man and an aboti in 18th century england, and last had a more who was an author and a writer who wrote the poem slavery that helped to stoke abolitionist fervor. in the end, british empire oglethorpe continue the fight where we were. history is missed is that we focus only on those years here in georgia. he did not give up the fight. and he and in my book and some of his i thought fail my theory, my thesis is oglethorpe did not fail. oglethorpe wanted to create a slave free georgia. we live in a slave free georgia. he did not feel his vision. his dream became t reality. and you see it in december 1864, when william tecumseh sherman shows up here.

slavery is dead and oglethorpe had predicted that in his society to build itself out■ thn cannot survive. oglethorpe did not fail, and we should celebrate him for his speech.thank you. you know, one of the ultimate for authors is to be on the new york times bestseller list in books like this sometime to do well regionally or something like that. mr. sherman but what do you think that something like this that we ought to be teaching more history in our schools and books like this ought to be in the classrooms and that this ought to be a runaway bestseller you who write nonfiction, how much more difficult is it than a previous author at least got to interview people who were still alive and or people who have been dead for a hundred or 200 years. i think i heard you question the audio as a lit■ttle bit, but i

agree. hopefully it will become a new york times bestseller. but that's okay. but that's okay. you know, i snt just researching and writing. i never proposed to publish. them first. it was for my edification. this is my state and i wanted to have a better understanding of the man who played the role here. if through m share with others,t would be great. but we need more history in our public schools. we just do. and let me do one of the things i think that this narrative can show is that we live in an environment where history is so toxic and divisive,■h who can't who can't celebrate james oglethorpe. now, this is what i say isn't interested. hamilton the broadway musical the great given. hamilton not a great musical. and one of the reasons it's being celebrate it is it has a diverse cast, right? james oglethorpe lived a diverse

life in my estimation. james oglethorpe will be the knicks hamlet. yes, sir. you present a beautiful and very convincing case for oglethorpe. the journey being a journey of the heart. but i'm guesng it wa also a journey of the head of the brain. it sounds like he was a very shrewd man. i wonder if you couldting that . he was brilliant. he was obviously one of the most, if the first to make the enlightenment caslavery. just the issue i raised about civilization. if people can read and write, if they have family as if they are monotheistic, then these individuals cannot be subhuman beast of burden. they must be human beings. and there was other james john sley that i'll mention since

i'm standing here at trinity, one of his closest in the pew, people who fought against slavery, john wesley spoke out and noted he was anti-slavery. he became an abolitionist where the thing was that enslaved blacks possessed redeemable souls. the prevailing notion in christianity was that black people did not have souls, so istianized and the precursor to a movement that preceded it was that equality of the soul would equal access to the kingdom of heaven. if i'm equal in heaven, then you could lead to the conclusion that i should also be where ual on earth. and so those are the type of reason. and the other thing i'll stop. james the idea was that black people were docile, that they did not fight nsenslavement. and oglethorpe, in a dairy, scots in particular, dan and aryan, constantlyv, warned the pro-slavery group that black

people will take up arms the first chance they get and they will ally themselves wite■h your enemies. they fought with the seminole hulls against the enslavers during the american revolutionary war. blacks in georgia aligned with the british because british offered them freedom. they were free here in savannah due out octopussy about five years during the war of 1812, some 3000 blacks from cumberland and st simons and coles went out to cumberland and joined the british evacuation army and joined the royal marines and then in civil war, first chance at him, 200,000 black men volunteer to fight for the union. oglethorpe won slave holders that if you enslave people they will fight with your enemy

against you. to your point, thank you, sir. were there any specific people who attempted to stop oglethorpe attempt to not really stop, but that's a great question. give them a round of. oh, that is a wonderful question. that's an excellent question. they were called the malcontents and they were male contented because they believed that georgia could never be a place of consequence without enslaved laborers. and they despised james oglethorpe up. and they started an 18 citrus smear campaign that basically destroyed his reputation at the time. and in july 1743, oglethorpe was forced out of georgia in disgrace, headed to england to face court martial for a charge of treason. primarily because prose slavery,

georgians recognized that the only way we can get legalized slavery is that we have to undermine his authority and his reputation. the great question. thank you, sir. thank you for allowing me to have an advance copy of the book. well, i■4 do. i will come into the van and know the only way i'm going to make it in here is. and one of the most striking things for me was the journey of oglethorpe from the anti-slavery to an abolitionist. and i'm not so sure that the majority of the people in i'm assuming, kind of understand the difference. the real difference between being anti-slavery and being an? abolionist. so if you could just make that

connection again and that was one of the major takeaways for me, and i'm going to buy the book. they thank you. thank you, mr. mayor. typically, we cflate thwo anti , right we see them as one of the same. historic distinct and different. they are distinct and different. anti-slavery means that i'm opposed to slavery, but i do not support general abolition of black people. anti-slavery efforts included furs with black people who fought against who fought for their own freedom, who purchased their own freedom, who joined the church. those are anti-slavery strategies among the white population. i mentioned the christian evangelists who sought to

evangelize enslaved blacks. that's anti-slavery. that was an effort to regulate the slave. that's anti slavery. then abolition. anti-slavery was a precursor to abolition. oh, let me tell you who won the great anti-slavery advocates in a uga graduate. uga folks go down. okay. robert finley, a former president of the university georgia, founded the american colonization society. he despised slavery. he wanted to free enslaved blacks. but one caveat he didn't wantin. so he to colonize africa and south america free black. but not just robert. there's another person that i guarantee all of you know that was this other man, abraham lincoln, who anti-slavery, who

sought to colonize as enslaved americans before the january 1st, 1863, when he became an abolitionist. and if you read, why did lincoln go from anti-slavery to abolition? well, to compassion. maybe read the last paragraph of emancipation proclamation. he authorized the enlistment of black men in the union army. he believed that if a man could fight, then he deserved be free. thank you for your remarks, sir. i'm going to buy your book as well. you know. do you have as an attorney, do you have any comment on the prohibition of attorneys in this? the original charter. well, i thought about it and

i'll serious and it may be prohibitn attorneys rum and black people. i would just catholics on three of them. i'm out right. but it was an interesting ending on the tedious society where people suing each other, but they got the law use right next door in south carolina. they never hesitated when they needed a legal opinion because there was this debate about allowing free blacks to come to georgia. it came up twice anda legal opinion from the british attorney general. was, okay, no slaves. but we think we ought to allow black, free black people come to geora. trustees. but the british government said no. but lawyers on all their. thank you. yes.

may i let question one more. thank you so much for finding writing somethingpe. it's a book we've been needing. as you said before, he was sort of drummed out of georgia when. when did he sort of become back? the father of georgia to savannah as kind of someone who we do admire. well, savannah has kept the flame alive. savannah james oglethorpe and i what i would hope. and i told my wife, i told my friends that if the book doesn't resonate is the banner dead? i'm just telling you. and so thank you all for holding the flame of james oglethorpe alive. i was at oglethorpe university. i spoke there for oglethorpe day on tuesday, and what i shared with the president i believe that at this point it is time in the history of our nation james

oglethorpe will become a beacon of hope, of opportunity, of humanity for not just savannah, but for georgia and his nation. and i told her that in years to come, there will be people who make pilgrimage to oglethorpe university to learn about his philosophy and how he was able to rise above the hatred, the and to embrace people as part of the human family. that's my. journalist and author based in tulsa who works to bring neglected history to light discussing today built from the