1000 community centers to quit wi-fi enabled lift zones so students from low-income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports c-span is a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front-row seat to democracy. >> congress returns to his effacing and that the headline of friday midnight eastern to fund the government and avert a partial shutdown. the is back at noon eastern and along with the senate plans to vote on the six remaining spending bills for 2024 to fund the federal government passed the deadline. lawmakers will consider several energy policy bills as well as legislation to block the sale of americans sensitive personal data by data brokers to foreign adversaries. the senate also returns tuesday at 3 p.m. eastern. cindy does will consider of president biden judicial nomination including service employees international union general counsel nicole berner to serve as a u.s. court of appeals

judge for the fourth circuit. if confirmed she would be the first openly lgbtq judge to serve on that court. watch live coverage of houston c-span, the senate on c-span2, and reminder you can watch all of our congressional coverage with our free video app c-span now or online at c-span.org. >> welcome back. we're joined by michelle price was a lecturer in prison and jail innovation lab director at the university of texas at austin. good morning. >> good morning. thank you for having me. >> can you talk about the prison and jail innovation lab, what you all do and have came about? >> sure. the prison and jail innovation that which we call key jail as a policy resource and at the lgb school of public affairs university of texas and we work to improve correctional oversight and to ensure the safety, , health and dignity people in custody. we basically are a bridge

between academic research, policy and practice on those issues. we want to learn more about the work we do you can go to pgo.or pgo.org. >> jessore operating from the same set of w language your name to describe the difference between prison and jail? >> guest: sure. prisons are state-run institutions for people who have been convicted of crimes and were sentenced typically for longer than a year. there operated by the state, large facilities. they tend to be and more rural parts of the state. jails are run most typically by counties, , buy local, local agencies and they include a number different types of folks whinge about people of been arresteded and booked an pretri, they're going to jail.

people are intended to stay there for very short. time got o be a matter of hours or days we usually not more than a year except in some unusual circumstances. >> host: i'm looking at a chart from the prison policy initiative breaking down the number of people in state prisons as you just talking about versus local jails versus federal prisons and jails with the overwhelming number of incarcerated people being in state prisons as opposed to the local jails. and even within the local jails you have a big portion of those folks were not convicted versus those who are convicted, whereas in the state prisons obviously folks have been convicted with a big chunk being violent offenders versus those with property cases or drug cases a public order. can you talk a little bit about the overall number of of people within the u.s. jail and prison system and how that compares

with the rest of the world? >> guest: sure. let me make one point about that. although jails have fewer people in them at any given time, they actually because people turn over in jail all the time, you've got about 10 million year passing through the doors of jails. so there kind of under recognize as major, major part of our system. but, in fact, the number of people in this country who are locked up, talking roughly 2 million people, that divorce in other country in the world. the u.s. has roughly 25% of the incarcerated population in the world, yet only about 5% of the overall population. and are cautioned ration rate in this country is far outpacing in the country -- incarceration rate -- 654 people per 100,000

who are locked up here. so we are a very, country that relies extraordinarily heavily on incarceration and are a lot of people, every single year, who are affected by what happens inside a prisons and jails, to give a sense of the global comparison, here's another chart from the prison policy initiative looking at global incarceration rates and the united states is literally off the charts compared to some of these other countries with the closest thing the united kingdom with 129 people per 100,000 people, and the united states as you mentioned over here at 664 people per 100,000 people. what are some of the biggest problems in the state and rightl prison systems now. >> guest: where to start? let me mention an issue that

crosses over all institution that's the lack of transparency about what's happening inside these places. laprisons and joe some of the mt opaque institutions in our society. we get very little data about what happens inside them. there is very little opportunity for effective oversight where an outside party can go in and inspect and find out what is going on inside, how are people inside being treated. from the information that does come out we know there are a tremendous number of conditions issues. facilities all over the country are understaffed, and that's one were looking at it. the other we look at it is there to meet people for for the number of staff that exist. these facilities are also overcrowded. many, many facilities are operating with many vacant positions. the staff that are there are working overtime or they had just simply are not enough staff

to supervise edwin adequately. there are people who are not trained as correctional officers being roped into doing that role just two of a warm body in that space. many prison agencies around the country having trouble recruiting. the on that, and i should mention the understaffing affects every aspect of life in prison. it's a huge safety issue. it also affects the delivery of programs and services. deaths in custody are another issue that is plaguing facilities all over the country. people die from suicide, homicide, overdoses, even natural deaths in custody sometimes we think those are preventable but, in fact, it's from medical care that is sometimes leading to these deaths. mental health, we can't talk about jails in this country without talk about health. jails have become the largest institutions for people witheo mental health something because those services are notur availae in our communities.

there are environmental issues we need to think about, how prisons, many facilities come particularly those in the south, have extreme heat issues. they are not air conditioned. there's a lack of clean drinking water in the facilities. many people inside are exposed to toxic chemicals and other hazardous environmental conditions. solitary confinement is a big issue. it goes by manyy different names but there's a lot of people in what's called restrictive housing where they are locked up 23 hours a day in a space that's basically the size of a parking space. maybe getting out up to an hour a day for some kind of exercise or shower but no human contact. >> host: that's quite a list. i want to focus on one component of it, which is those of deaths you were referencing. here's an article from nbc news talking about suicide deaths specifically pick the headlinere

the bureau of prisons failed to prevent nearly 200 deaths by suicide and department of justice watchdog fines. the inspector general said numerous operational and managerial deficiencies contributed to many of the deaths it reviewed, over half of which were suicides. this is looking specifically at the federal bureau of prisons, so the federal prisons, which the department of justice has failed to prevent the deaths of 187 inmates who died by suicide over eight years, according to the justice department's watchdog. a new report led by the justice department inspector general michael horowitz found a combination of recurring policy violations and operational failures contributedde to inmate suicides. the report is based on a review of 344 inmate 44 inmate deaths from 2014-2021. 2021. 187 of which were suicides he said numerous operational and managerial deficiencies created

unsafe conditions that contribute to many of c the deas he reviewed itol with proper protocols and resources in place, inmate suicides almost always preventable, experts say. i want to get some reaction to that from you, michelle, in the moment but first i want to hear from colette peter's, t director of the federal bureau of them prisons who spoke about some of his criticism during a wednesday hearing on the deaths and suicides in the federal prison system. here are her comments. >> we can teams that work to combat contraband to reduce homicides and overdoses. this includes heightened screening of mail, detecting intercepting drones, monitoring or terminating cellular communications, and continually monitoring intelligence and gang activity.is to harness all of this intelligence we are creating a new chief inspector position to identify since my patterns and

problems including that that would prevent deaths in our custody. on a departmental level, the deputy attorney general has formed a working group of experts to better prevent suicides. i want to be perfectly clear. our employees are our everything, and fully staffed institutions and well-trained employees save lives. yet, it is no secret that our agency is in crisis as it relates to recruitment and retention. we are aggressively recruiting and utilizing incentives to maintain the employeesmp we hav, and while our efforts over this past year have gleaned the to results, we're still faced with an inability to compete with the private sector and other law enforcement agencies. as an example at a federal prison about an hour outside of boston a correctional officer recently quit his job for a better offer wither better pay. the better offer, working at the local grocery store. on the law enforcement side, an

ad running in the new york city subway is advertising that city correctional officers can make around $130,000 after a few years on the job. while in the same amount of time, court officers after we've implemented the 35% retention bonus, would be would be making about $90,000. the story is the tut same throut the country. we need more resources to carry out our mission, implement our vision, and reach our goals. >> host: michelle, what is your response? how much of this will is a staffing issue? >> guest: staffing is absolutely related to issues of safety inside. she have to write about that. if you don't have enough staff you are not properly supervise and people may not be observing signs that people are at risk. you may not get to them quickly enough if they are attempting suicide. but, but is is not everythin. it's not the only explanation.

there also needs to be appropriate protocols for screening people who come in, making sure that people with serious mental health conditions are not inside prisons or jails more specifically where they belong. they are very very high risk in the study. >> we know putting people into solitary confinement is a huge risk factor. overuse of that kind of setting is very, very dangerous. how we treat people once they are identified as risk of suicideer matters. annually, supervision and staffing absolutely a crisis, absolute something that needs to be dealt with. peopleee need to be appropriatey trained but is not the only explanation. >> host: we have special phone lines for this segment today. we are doing regional as well as folks who have experience with the prison system. if you're in the eastern or central time zone, that number for you is 202-748-8000. 202-748-8000.

in the mountain or pacific timee zones, 202-748-8001. if you have experience with the prison or jail system and have comments or questions for michele, 202-748-8002 and, of course, you can reach us on social media or by text. now let's start with the gene in doubt what ohio who is in the eastern time zone. go ahead, yes. i wanted her to maybe comment on a case that a happen in the atlanta, georgia, metro area where a mentally ill man was bitten by bedbugs on a cot with no sheets. you can seeyo the conditions online.. he died from his injuries. it was like, i don't know, it's like no big deal. also the feeling in our country and the jokes that are made when a younger prisoner or any

to jail, thatnt they are going j to be sexually assaulted regularly, and that's part of their punishment. it's a big joke in this country, and i would like her to comment on that, please. thank you. >> host:or before you respond, just a few more details on that case that are called was just referencing. georgia's fulton county has reached a settlement with the family of the man who died in a bedbug infested cell in the county jail psychiatric ward, and that was back in august 2023. but lashawn thompson 35 died n september through adapters book into the fulton county jail in o atlanta. attorneys who represent the family say they have reached a settlement and his death gained public attention in april after harper released photos of c his face and body covered in insects.s. the u.s. department of justice cited thompson's death last month when announcing an investigation into joe conditions in fulton county.

that was back in august of last year, but go ahead, michele. >> guest: thank you so much for raising that. that incident, batman in the fulton county jail, there's no excuse for anything like that. it was just an absolute horror story. i think it's reflective of very deep-seated problems in the fulton county jail. the lack of supervision and, frankly, lack c of caring. so yeah, just horrible. as for the comments that people make about sexual assault, that is also thoroughly unacceptable under any circumstances. fortunately in this country there is a change in trend where corrections professionals understand that this is not acceptable. we have the prison rape elimination act standards that apply to the salute all over the country that have sought r to really change the way we protect people inside. so we identify people who are at

risk of being sexually assaulted, those who are at risk of being perpetrators, and there are no protocols on how to deal with that. that said, there are far too much sexual suckling inside our facilities. just one example, the federal prison in dublin, california, has become known as the rape club because of the sheer numbers of women who are being raped with impunity by staff. the warden, the chaplain and many staff there have been convicted of raping the women there. i cannot even imagine the horrors that those women havee experienced. >> host: jack is in hawaii in the mountain time zone. go ahead, jack. >> caller: i would like to have two questions i would like to ask michele. but i like to see c-span set her up with the conditions in el salvador and go on youtube and

show a bit of the conditions what they had to do in el salvador. and those people that they rounded up down there are coming to appear. we have presidents, not just one, not just in 13 people, ms-13 people. she knows who they are. she's made country clubs , what is the question to michele to the prison specifically? , i don't know how she, what's your thoughts on what el salvador is doing to round up all those gang members that even coming across theat border and , let's go ahead and see you have any thoughts on that? >> guest: i would like to respond to one piece of this, which is the reference to country clubs. i can w say anyone who's ever spent time in any prison or jail and american would never describe them as a country club.

>> host: anthony is in albany, georgia, and has an experience with the prison system. can you tell us about your experience and then your question for michele. >> caller: well, i went to prison back in 1999, and the criminal justice system treated me as if i was guilty before it was proven. my only way back home from jail was to plead guilty because i was held without bond and i've never been locked up like that. and it, i'm 58 right now, and i go back the last 20 years in the criminal justice system have treated young black men, and it's more easier to incarcerate

them and not rehabilitate them, and house them for a lifetime. then you don't have to worry about them for their whole life. and 20 years later, and i look back and i see president joe biden which was the chairman of the judicial committee back during 1995 during the clinton administration and how he said he had the agreement with black preachers because of the crack epidemic to justify what was done to us. i'm so broken. i'm so hurt. we are leaving a world behind worse than we found it. and it's all because of selfishness.

i just wanted to make that comment. i'm so glad i got an opportunity to t call in. i started watching c-span way back in the early '80s drama anthony, thank you so much for sharing that experience. a shell, i i imagine you have heard stories like that before. >> caller: absolutely. there are three pieces of whatid anthony said that are so important. one isre highlighting the incredible racial disparities in our prison system. they arere undeniable and they n very, very deep. and the issue has to do with how people do you plead guilty n they're in jails, in large part because the conditions are so awful that anything they can do to get out of those conditions, it leads to them the somets pleading guilty even if they are not. and the third point is he's getting at is the trauma that comes to people who have been

incarcerated. it's has a lifelong effect on people andec effects on the part of their lives even after they get out. >> host: rhonda is in jacksonville north carolina and also has some experience with the prison system. go ahead, rhonda. >> caller: good morning. i just want to say i have my factors is in criminal justice and a masters in counseling, and i took a job at the prison as a secretary and then i got certified as a correctional officer because i wanted to work deeper with the client, with the inmates. and what i learned, worked there for over two or three years, but what i learned was the respect that i have for the workers in thesee prison systems. people on the outside have no idea the sacrifice and the long hours and what they do during the day and what they prevent and what they help and what they counsel and what they help these

people who, i worked in the minimum security, so these people are a a lot of them would go out and go to work everyday, austin avenue, come back to the facility. we were getting to and ready to go out into the world after they were released. i think a lot of them were the last two or three years, but these people are human beings are a correctional officer with education, it helps. and the training they give for the correctional officers is really good. they put them to the united tra. you pass a test, and if you can go out there, i had one of the inmates tell me, he said i've been in prison a long time, he said, youat are the only officer that's ever treated me like a human being. and i said, because you are a human being. and i'm supposed to get everybody alike. i am to treat you with respect. i'm to treat you to go by the

rules. you don't go by the rules, then you get reprimanded, you get written up. and they respect me. for that. i was black and white, i was on the books, i went by what the policy said. i didn't put up with their crap and they learned to respect you. there's a lot of corruption in prisons, but if you go in there with integrity and you go in there with character and you go into him with a heart, you can help these people. i had people i feel like that turned their lives around treatment thank you so t much fr sharing, rhonda. i want to give michele a chance to respond? >> guest: i appreciate you so much, , rhonda. everything you said is right on target. we under appreciate the staff who work in these facilities. i think that incredibly hard job and the vast maturity of them are working with integrity and doing what they can under very, very tough circumstances. one thing peoplein don't realize is how much interest of the

correctional officers and interest of incarcerated people online. everyone wants safer facilities. everyone wants to be treated with respect. and with dignity. we sometimes pose these as somehow in conflict with each other but it doesn't have to be. i think your experience shows if you treat people like human beings, you are going to get back that tender treatment in return. >> host: we have a question from tom and alexandria who wrote in the text. can the speaker explained the specific corrective actions that worked to protect prisoners from abuse? y are not wardens five for maintaining unsanitary conditions? >> guest: wow. part of the problem is that we don't know what's going on. these issues that are so like i said earlier these institutions that are the pics of information doesn't always come out about a

problematic the force is brutality of the poor conditions. and when you do, there's not necessarily the public will to change them, which is a huge mistake because what happens inside these prisons and jails affects all of us in the community. 95% of people inside our prisons and jails are coming back to our communities. and do we want them to be good neighbors when they get out? do we want them to be productive citizens and having worked on other issues? or do we want them to come out angry and traumatize and in worse shape healthwise? it has cost implications and it has implications for whether they're going to commit more crimes on the outside. we need to be carried about how to fix these issues on the inside, getting out more information about what, in fact, is happening. >> host: rj is an oklahoma and is currently incarcerated. go ahead, rj, yeah, i'm

incarcerated right now. i've been in prison before. i was a drug addict for years and i thought the system. i got busted in 94 for credit card fraud. i got two years but then i got to work release but they didn't have it at that time in oklahoma so they sent me to east cell house block behind the walls of mcallister. so i was in there with killers and murderers, and the east cell house it was isolated. it was a condemned building. i don't know if this lady has heard about it or not. they had news teams coming out there. we had a big lawsuit. of course we didn't get in my out of it that it was a four-story building, 40000 of us in there and i was on the bottom floor and you did your clothes, your laundry mop aukus once a week. he took a sharp once a week. there was one shower for the whole room. 100 men for one shower.

and then when they would flush the toilet above myself, feces would run down the wall inside myself. okay, i was a seven-month waiting to go to work release. okay, then they sent me to work release. but i had a lot of physical problems. i had bumps coming up on the, knots. it took me to the doctor over and over and over. they said they thought i had malaria. well, i didn't have malay but anyway i'm one of the lucky ones because that scared me to death. i got up and went back to college and got my masters degree and i was a therapist for 30 years. so there's a lot of other things. i gave in. i mean, i knew i had to change. a lot of guys get in there, they can't do it. they do want to get educated. they want to chase the high of the easy money. and the system is really screwed up because you've got to give them an education in the system. >> host: okay. i want to give michele a chance to respond to some of his points