day. look we can alle down to turn out. polls are showing nikki haley within 30 points of donald trump, right there. i time on this, but i'll ask you three questions t each to respond to. relative to polling, you all right there, sparky? >> i was apparently unscrewing my microphone instead of pulling it out. >> in new hampshire, nikki haley won democratic voters who

crosseover, 86-5 will she do better than that or worse today than that south carolina in south carolina. >> worse. >> i'm going to better level or better. >> she won independent voters 58-39. will she do better with independen today? >> level or better. >> sara? >> noworse-- >> hold on. are we talking we talking like absolute numbers? because here is the thing, in new hampshir are way more independents who culturally are used to vot >> i need percentages, i'm trying to norm it out. the point i'm trying to get at. >> a higher percentage, but lower absolute numbers translate into better showing. >> and i'm saying the more these of her, that the less they land-- >> i don't think that's true. >> and with republicans, she got 39% of self-identified republicans in new hampshire. give me her number with

self-identified republicans today. >> 30%. >> 28%. >> ab. >> i'm in that window definitely worse. >> i'll take the under. >> last question. you'll take the under. >> this is the price is dollar one dollar. does any of it nikki haley strike you as the person who's going to stand up to marco rubio and mitch mcconnell and ron entire rest of the party and say you guys are the crazy ones ioing to do this. >> i don't know let me go to bat for for a second. i think she's going to do worse not because i think that i think she's a much better she was when she was doing her middling thing in new hampshire, right? the problem is that south carolina which is her home state, which is going to hurt it's going to hurt more for her to underperform in south carolina since she was the governor e, state that's a good fit for

her. new hampshire was a much better nikki haley, even the republicans in new hampshire fit for somebody like nikki haley. yu in south carolina i'm amazed. we did a focus group in south carolind it's with tim, who wrote that really amazing profile ofey a couple of years ago, what's so conversation i had with alberta about nicky is that that piece haley, a time for choosing. and it was about this question was she going to choose to burn the boats? was she to basically -- because alberta's thesis nikki haley was a decent p wanted to do the right thing, the republican party to be sort of can leadership in the world, free markets kind of s she going to choose that or was she was going end up back in trump's corner right? the reason the they voters in south carolina and nobody was going to vote for her, there was one woman who was going to vote for her because she wanted

her to have a good enough showing that trump might pick her to be vice-president, but anted to vote for trump. this person liked she was a trump person, but the thing that they all say, they say her. they can't trust nikki haley d the reason they think they can't trust her because nikki haleultiple sides of the trump question now for a long time right? they heard her say, i won't run for president if donald trump doesn't want me to. like remember when she was asked if she was going to run and she said well talk to trump first and sort of get his permission. that doesn't exactly scream strength and authenticity and things she needed to win, but she's -- she hasnow, i think, to be-- burn the boats nikki. the problem is she's been both those things for so long people can't trust her, whe right now, i think she's doing a good job. i think she's running as the wanted to be and i hoped she would be, and going

to stay in un that. i've got problems with the way herself, but stay in and i'm going to fight for it. >> okay i was mean. i take it back. all right, enough time in sou ivf, which is suddenly the most important issue in america, the alabama supreme court rules, they don't exactly rule illegal, not a ban on it, but they issue a ruling probably drive ivf out of the state ofe have what should be a weird moment of-- ivf is wildly popular, here i have the pol down here somewhere. hold yeah 86% of americans are in favor of something like 72-- 78% of p advocates are in favor of ivf. evangelical christians in favor of ivf. so you would think this is going to be a problem and nikki when asked about she got herself on the wrong side initially, and she's been

scurrying to back off of that since then and has trade to then frame it as a states rights issue, but you know like personally think that ivf is great and we have to respect states and every state is going to come to different decision abouts it trump does and i do think thatple misunderestimate trump, he's a demagogue demagogue, sure he's good at findin of things. this is have so many people think he's prochoice. >> because he is. >> also because he is. but, you know he immediately just popped out and was like yeah great. what just happened in alabama is a travesty and i call on the alabama legislature to pass a law to protect ivf. is that going to work? >> so i think that this isbeginning of the issue for democrats, and not the end of the you saw steve gaines who runs the national senatorial

committees candidates up fighting for swing states and put out statements, including terry lake they just want so many babies and pro family and pro ivf so they'reow champions. the fact that the republicans are-- >> i'm sorry, i didn't ask you, does it matter that steve gaines bill granting full constitutional protection for embryos? >> and mike johnson has the fact, life begins at the >> as long as donald trump changes and the republicans, they-- people think i have dementia because i confused nancy pelosi and i change names around and have fun and no one has a sense of humor, so this ivf pivot will help them in the near term, but if the democrats are smart, they will start running ads saying are

your in mississippi, are your eggs safe inand they need to do this because it is the logical next question about what authoritarians want a huge menu. they need to be verytrump's been working really hard and might not have known it's coming, but he's been working very hard to throw theangelical leadership under the bus on abortion and say we're going to loseissue. if they've already let him do this yeah the iss probably technically over within the movement and within evangelical christrt him nonetheless, but for the democrats, i thinks wide open. i mean these stories, the last couple of days of these women finding out that this had happened to them in this -- i have two children from my three, foo ind-- the middle of the course you've spent time and money preparing for and so much emotional duress the injections youu've had to cancelled.

the secret you're keeping from your family and co-workers and your friends, hanging the hope on the retrieval, the harvest, the transfer all of these things it's so completely overwhelming and the idea they're sitting in alabama not how to control their future for your family with these embryos freezer somewhere is-- it knocked me over watching these people and this is a devastating story for them that i insist did not end with trump's truth social post yesterday. >> i'm going to be super dark, but i'm going to let you first. >> you're kidding. so here is the-- i'm going to defend nikki again. and she also said that she had her kids via and that's not uncomplicated in the sense i also haveids that were done via ivf, altho lesbians the thing that they

tell you when you go to ay clinic is it's like you don't suffer from infertility, you suffer from lack of exposure to sperm. [laughter] i call that suffering. [l >> since we're going to get to some of that and then -- and then, but actually what of a personal story, but i got explicit approval from my wife to tell it we started out under that start of feeling like oh and then we tried for what close to two years and it didn't happen and we had to move to ivf and also we had miscarriages in and it was like it's one of the hardest times when you children badly and it's not happing, eventually obviously, it worked and now i have two kids boys who i love more tnd i think that like you're messing with something in people's livesou do this that goes-- people think like this is

your job, tommy tuberville. tuberville does not get to have a say in the thing that's happening. [applause] >> so i agree withab. the problem with democrats, they are allergic to you do when you take an issue and say, no 'r we these guys aren't pro-life. th weren't pro-life during covid. you made this they're not pro-life on taking your kids when they'ren it's a message there and it's up to them to jump on it. [applause] >> all right, i think this is 10 for democrats. >> okay. >> whoa. >> i want to hear it. >> so donald trump has basically come out and openly defied the furthest elements of pro-life, incorporated on this. ivf is great. he's called on the alabama state legislature to rectify this horrible law--

horrible wrong and pass a law protecting ivf. and nobody from trad pro-life world is going to crack back on him. they're all going to say it's fine. and this is then going to create a haloffect for the rest of the republicans running. because r you have a split. some people in the senate are now reversing t pretend they don't like this, but you've got 125 republicans in the house who board with a co-sign to a bill that would essentially creatersonhood for embryos. and those people i think, will get to benefit from trump's halo right? sure my rep says this crazy thing, but i don't have to worry about it because trump, you know trump is really super pro ivf. do you want me to rit the-- >> yeah. >> it's funny. >> i took as trump's speech writer on threads and i i bet you $1,000 trump couldn't tell you wha and my understanding is that they take the baby the very small baby some say, even smaller than thejesus,

and they inject it right into the mother and it's beautiful, it's a beautiful thing. we love babies. maybe not the mexican ones can't say that fake news very upset when you say that, but an ivf should stay in mexican. do this and every minute that you're litigating this stuff you're not tal"=ut dobbs. right, i think it's lose lose lose for democrats. >> and that's sayingould prosecute this case, but if they right about, donald trump is perceived by a cultural moderate by voters and very much misunderstood and here is the thing about why voters 2é think that he's a moderate on abortion they believe he esn'tngage in any kind of sexual morality. they're like look foc

groups i don't say this, paid for abortion. they don't think he's like the rest of the part don more popular than the republican party perceive him not to be a mike jmoderate. the more like triangulate against that the court that overturned roehe do think this is going to be impo it's going to be ing. you have to run agasttrump, but you've g the whole republican party. you've got to run against what it has turned into under trump and mike johnson because when you do that if you canrosecute thatase thinkthat. >> i mean i just-- we live in a wor where nobody remembers the ic right? cans died. standing out there bleach ivermec and blame trump for it. >> this is what jbl does to bait me into the website. he publishes other people true.

he did a group with pro trump, pro choice women from swing states and they all thought, trump is great, he's right with me i feel good about trump and his position on abortion and when asked the dobbs things don't you maybe think he had something to do-- they all hated dobbs, they think that dobbs is bad. three of 15 said maybe trump bore some partial responsibility for it. you know what? that sound about right to me. i've seen the people i lived with the people. that's what they think. they can't have all of t things in their heads. >> that's true part of the problems with democrats and here is where i think it's going to help and be aggressive on it you may have noticed na joe biden i doing great with people age 29 and younger, right? young folks, remember the focus

group we did with the younger people. you know,'s like the same age of my grandma and she says a lot of problematic stuff. [laughter] >> and i think maybe he's like that. and you know so, but the thing that will get those people out, it's not going to be joe biden, but it is going to be those issues that it's going to be the contrast between joe biden saying i'll protect reproductive freedom and prosecute a case against republicans who want to get rid of it and donald trump will point to the justices that overturned roe. it does a lot for the enthusiasm and showing up in his sort of lackluster poll numbers. >> i think you actually argued this months ago, he's kind of effectively won on the, you know distancing himself from dobbs and the abortion issue. i think it's so powerful for the democrats to tie-- when they try to explain to people and you're right, they

have to say, these are the justices that he appointed with posts from him, we're going to overturn roe v. wade and pictures, but ivf is so much more tangible to people when you explain to them what has happened sense dobbs in terms of women withe canith ectopic pregnancies and doctors calling their lawyers. and it's complicated unless it's been in their community or family or circle of friends, ivf is so much more accessible an issue to tie to dobbs, to talk about dobbs, and to talk about the supreme court that he set up to repeal roe v. wade. and i think it's just-- i think it's a slam-dunk. you just basically say it doesn't matter what donald trump is telling you, these are the people in red state legislatures they're coming eventually for birth control,

but right now they want your frozen eggs if you're a single woman and your frozen embryos if you're a married couple if you're trying to conceive. they can pretend to fix it, but they're dystopian and radical-- >> to trust the guy-- >> i don't think it's over as an issue for them. i really don't. >> and one thing to understand about this race it hasn't started yet. it's not even-- it feels to us like oh-- >> because it's already over. >> stop it you stop it! (laughter) >> there are reasons that people run campaigns, there are things that they teach voters who are not paying attention yet and as somebody who talks to a lot of voters they're not paying attention yet. the dynamics of the upcoming race if you listen to me i talk about it a lot. it's not like persuadables and

there are two people that people don't know about. and that's not what the race is about unfortunately. this is why, i talked about not getting exhausted and we had to keep our blood up and energy up because it's easy to get like-- oh i can't believe we areway going to do this again with these two guys and the voters that are persuadable hate both of them. okay. the persuadable voters this time are different than other times. they are double-doubters, double-haters, a pox on both their housers. it's a race who they dislike more and i don't like when things are just about hate. it's not my favorite. but-- give into the hate jedi. it will make you powerful. >> negative hilarity is going to rule the day. the campaign's really going to matter. joe biden is old, but you know what? he can either be yoda old.

at the old? >> you know what? he can be yoda old, wise there to protect us teach a new generation or he can be-- >> name the character, name the character. >> i don't know the bad guy-- >> save it somewhere and now you're trying to do your sci-fi analogy, but you're not a heard, you can't fake it. >> what's the name of it. >> the emperor. >> okay, that guy. >> this is why i didn't have a girlfriend until i was 30. [laughter] >> very very nice segue because i was hoping to rope you all very nice people into being codefendants with me with no labels lawsuit. >> it's not a lawsuit, okay? listen no label-- >> you're all co-conspirators to listen to us talking about us. >> do you guys know this jbl

once on a podcast we were doing, an insane rant against no labels talking anybody involved with no labels should never be able to get a table at spago, they should be just ruined their credibility and it was-- and i was could go like simmer down simmer down. just before i was supposed to debate nancy jacobson the head of no labels supposed to be a public debate and she used jbl's rant to cancel the debate and sent me a note that said i watched your despicable podcast with your despicable co-host who said-- >> check true. >> and then they sent a letter to the department of justice claiming there was a rico conspiracy against no labels that included our podcast and

jbl and a bunch of people trying to educate in no labels would have a spoiler candidate effect. and jbl kept calling me am i going to jail. i said buddy, anybody can send a letter to doj. it's not a real thing. >> i'm stereo typed based on my new jersey heritage. so a-b. i want to talk about this. yesterday we had a piece by sergeants in the new york public arguing the bottom is falling out of no labels and manchin pulled the plug on maybe i'll run and one is running and thank you, larry hogan for not running as a third party spoiler. what do you think, you took a contrary opinion to greg sergeant. explain to the people? >> i'm sorry, the new republic piece claims that the effort is in meltdown. it's very well-funded and

well-organized and already on 16 ballots, which is more than our-- it's intentional and pretty competent and the -- they wanted romney romney would have been obviously the ideal candidate with hogan and manchin out, it clearly looks to the casual observer like it's over, but there are other people that they're pursuing and so at that point your challenge, if you go to a lower tier by a name i.d. problem, someone who is competent and could appeal, but is not rfk, jr. or mitt romney or i guess larry hogan, so it doesn't mean that it's over and i think that-- so the theory that it's in meltdown is wrong. there's an interesting kind of-- they've just invested so much money i don't think they're not

going to go through with it and dick gep heart and others working against it are trying to get them to back out. no labels said they'll do this if there's a path-- and they maintained that they don't intend to be a spoiler for trump. the exit ramp for people pushing for, can you get out at the last minute if it looks like it's not viable? >> by july. >> that's pretty tricky so you get someone in and you have to work up their name i.d. and that's mid march soon early april the latest and then i don't -- i just obviously, we're in a new world. you know there's a lot concern about this going to the house and becoming a contingent election scenario where the house decides it which i truly believes would break the country in half and burn it down. and that the american electorate is not prepared to accept an election by the house

right now. so they have a lot of decision toss make whether they want to go forward. i think like i said because the operation is in drive already that they do that and then yeah at what point do they see a path to 70 which avoids the nightmare house scenario or do they actually give in to the groups trying to dissuade them and say, okay you're right. we did this and this historical effort because we believe that the public so hates biden and trump that they would come on and give our ticket a plurality and then when do they back off? i mean anyway. >> have you talked to anybody in this orbit? >> no, i'm agnostic i'm on the outside, i've volunteered with no labels for many years, big believe in what they've done with the problem solvers in the senate coalition of the willing. >> so the former insider part of the bull bulwark and part of

the-- >> i want to sayen the audience we'd no chips act, no codification of same-sex marriage no electoral count act update no infrastructure. without that group that functions in congress and stays at the table and persuaded a filibuster proof majority in the senate of republican senators to defy their president and give biden all these accomplishments. i'm just opposed to the unity. >> and the fact that they've done such good work with the problem solvers caucus is actually why it's such a bummer they've decided to shred their credibility through this cycle. i'm going to make the pro that they are a meltdown case quickly, which is the idea they're going to get to 270, i would like to-- how many electoral delegates does delaware get, three? three, right? >> three. >> i don't think they're going to get to three and they put

out materials that says they're going to win a bunch of states. one of those states is delaware. can you think of anything about delaware that might make it i am plausible that their unity ticket that would be better than joe biden. i can think of a reason that it's joe biden's own state for a gill gillion years, and hey, it could be somebody like larry hogan, joe manchin, and the they're out -- full meltdown them going to rfk, jr., we've got access you've got whatever you're doing, the billionaires that funded this thing are not going to like that and not like some b-tier second-tier candidate so they're in the

potentially trouble making position. i think they can cause trouble about in doing something that's a serious effort. they went from no we're going to have all of these delegates and hold a big convention in person in april and no. then we're going to hold a zoom convention cool. now, it's like a few party insiders are going to pick this person. i think that kind of looks like a meltdown. anyway enough no labels. one more thing, i wanted you to -- you said in passing yesterday about the polling and polling showing that third parties really hurt hurt biden, and this speaks to your broader case not building an anti-trump coalition. the recent one, you don't like harvard harris. >> the most recent one, when it's straight-up trump and biden, trump plus seven. trump, biden, rfk, trump's lead

is bigger and throw in jill stein and cornel west in trump goes up 11. so the more third party candidates you offer, and that's because they're each appealing to some different part of what would be the anti-trump coalition, yes. would you like to speak to this? put a quarter in the machine. double doubters, double haters. if you give them-- what happens in that situation you're basically causing people to like what voters would talk about is choosing the lesser of two evils, that's how they talk about it. if we had a drinking game and had to drink every time someone said i have to choose the lesser of two evils, we'd be dead because people say it. you're not building a pro joe biden coalition you're building an anti-trump of

voters. and you give them a unity ticket of joe manchin and larry hogan, those folks are right there, they're out. but you give them cornel west a lot of sort of disaffected black voters in that group or young voters who are more progressive and it peels them off and anytime you peel off a segment of the people who when push comes to shove of who do i hate more? they choose trump and go biden. you give them off ramps and it fractures the anti-trump coalition and that's how this race is lost and so why i have always taken the third party stuff really seriously because with this particular psychology of this race it can do enormous damage. >> thank you, that's what i wanted. we're going to end with a big philosophical question, but before that news flash today at cpac at 1:00 the defeated former president will be giving an address, did you guys know

that. >> yes. >> and so i will say that once upon a time having a former president who is the pre sumton nominee of his party speaking at a conference for at opening speaker said welcome to the end of democracy we are here to overthrow it completely we did not get there all the way on january 6th, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this right here. he said raising a fist. that was jack-- >> i thought he raised a cross. >> oh a cross in his fist so then i'm cool with it. >> never mind. [laughter] >> so i think it would have been the end of the campaign for the presidential nominee to appear at the same conference that was opened that way. i get the sense that's not the case anymore, maybe i'm wrong.

but so we have advanced look at his, you know an advanced look at the remarks which he may or may not stick to, but i don't know if you saw this this morning, right. so he's going to say four years ago i told you that crooked joe biden got to the white house, our borders would be abolished our middle class decimated and our communities plagued, interesting word by bloodshed, chaos and violent crime, as the saying goes trump was right about everything. that's not saying. i just wanted you to go i have the trademark and that's not it. [laughter] >> so he's going to do american carnage again. he's just going to do american carnage again. and what do you guys-- is that going to work again? spoiler, yes it is, but i'd like to hear what you guys think. >> so stefanik was saying that democrats destroyed democracy because the 2020 election was

unconstitutional and trumps remarks talking with the tyranny of joe biden and that's the m-o, and to the voters that we're living under fascism and trump always says the socialists communists and fascists in his speeches and turned basically the threat and his party into the criticism of joe biden and the democrats and they're happy with it they're raising money on it. the government, we're living in a third world country where the government is going after this martyr political poll leader and it's terribly effective right now. if he's winning all the polling in the swing states. they're not going to let up on it because it's working, so everyone should prepare for that. >> how does-- i mean i don't want to sound like an elitist, but people are

buying a lot of boats. people are even buying sneakers. >> they're buying sneakers and trump nft's, how does that work. >> and there are a lot of people people and not all of them are buying sneakers. but in the fullness of the economy-- let's have our fight again. >> i don't want to fight about the boats or the economy. but what i want to say is like a-b said it's working right now. i just here is the thing you can come talk to me in four months and if in four months it still looks like this i will hit the panic button. the reason i have not panicked everybody else freaking out even though i said a long time ago, i thought joe biden is indeed old and that is indeed going to be a big problem and just whether the media talks about it or not, the voters

have noticed, okay? they've noticed. however, right now people know what they don't like about joe biden because he is the president. he is right in front of them and they see it and they've got their frustrations. they've forgotten about donald trump and actually something happening right now because the media, who i actually feel bad for. they sort of can't win in a lot of sense. they say stop broadcasting all of his insane conspiracy theories that el evaluates them and now everybody self-saying why aren't you broadcasting the insane theories nobody knows that he promotes them. all of those things are true and i don't know what to do other than i believe when voters see donald trump more when he's in front of them. when they see how much he-- he's always been unhinged which is actually to his benefit because the drop-off doesn't seem so pronounced he always sounded like a lunatic like this, but i've listened to swing voters now through multiple cycles and they think

it's not even democracy or abortion they think he's awful. they think he's a jerk. they do. and i think that when people are snapped into again, as long as there's no third party. as long as there's a head to head competition and it becomes a contrast with trump, i do think that joe biden is going to win. i believe that that scenario exists. i do not think we have to be like -- [applause] >> and the other thing i'll say in the contrast, but, again, why prosecuting this case is so important, the democrats have done a pretty good job in part because of responding to the republican party that's been driving itself off a cliff of not putting-- there's a bunch of people on the democratic party now who are like very normal. josh shapiro in pennsylvania is a normal guy. the progressives taking down the william penn statue.

what are you talking about? and joe biden was like yeah we're not doing that stop it. and gretchen whitmer is a normal person and so is elissa slotkin and barrel and a bench much now, those people have got to come out and become sewer surrogates for the democratic party otherwise it's going to be gavin newsom and i don't like gavin newsom that's about me a me problem, but there's a much better version of the democratic party to show there's a future case to make and contrasting that with marjorie taylor greene and lauren bobert and matt gaetz, and that contrast if you show it to people. and there's no tool like donald trump back in the public eye.

media if you're listening, show trump in all of his glory, voters need to see it. [applause] >> all right. so we're going to bump up against time, but i want to do a philosophical. what happens next? i mean so we're going to-- >> i'm going to eat lunch. >> we're going to hit an inflection point in eight months where one of three things will happen right? donald trump will win the election fair and square and become president. you know one pathway. joe biden will win the election and will wind up sworn in again after whatever happens because i just assume that you know there will be challenges again. there will be stop the steal two will be much better organized than stop the steal one. and the third option is that

biden wins and then the election results are overturned possibly through legal means, right. i mean we would say illegitimate, but perfectly legal. you could send alternate slates of election and create confusion and then the electoral count reform act is taken before the supreme court, really do they have power, are they allowed -- you have to squint a little bit, but not all that much. so my question to you guys is where do these three path ways lead and if you wind up on one of the two pathways where trump loses, is there a line that republicans won't cross? like is there -- is there mike pencism, the great american hero? i'm serious about that. i will fight anybody who wants to take bad about mike pence. is there anybody-- is there force for that left in

the party? so there. so you do your thing and i'll make everybody want to hang themselves before they go to lunch. lunch. >> so i think that i want to end on a high note for me which is that i just believe that nikki haley, who is a through and through phony because i didn't do my nikki haley south carolina thing, matter what she's doing in this race the fact that people are giving her money to injure trump for the general election matters to me and the cause. she's finally speaking the truth and she cannot back away from it and i don't believe that she's going to endorse trump and tim and jb and-- >> 35% she won't. >> so i'm really-- i'm clinging to this now, that she's not going to and whether she believes that there is in the event after trump defeat a

revival of some kind of new, you know a boomerang and finally saying once again, with trump we lose and she at that point is better situated than ron desantis she believes that she's the champion of the peel-off faction, i believe that there will-- i want to hope this senator john thune and senator john cornyn and people will stand up if trump loses and were in to stop the steal professional version, stand up and say, i'm out. i'm done actually this election was as safe and legal as the-- and secure as the last one. there are many we know elise and they'll run around and-- i'm hoping a tiny crusty slice what was once the establishment

and paul ryan will be one now, who says this is bull i'm out. i don't know that means that there is any hope for-- separate from a real group turning into the post defeat trump party-- i don't know that that means anything i so hope that there are a few that just say, i'm done and once he starts stopping the steal. [applause] >> this is why nobody can get tired. this is why nobody can decide to i don't know i'm just a pox on both their houses, i don't feel like dealing with it. sometimes when i really want to throw in my own day, i sit there and i'm like-- >> one for jbl. >> yeah i call jbl. i do like trump's fantasy

cabinet. john eastman who tried to overturn the last election would probably be the head of the justice department. >> with clark. >> people who tried to overturn it. mattises, kelly's, everything who kept it on the rail. nobody is joining the administration. who he chooses as his vice-president is not mike pence or somebody who says if your scenario kamala harris is the vice-president who makes it harder for the electors stealing things around fyi in that scenario. i don't think people are alarmed-- i don't think it's american carnage. you talk about burning the boats in the good way that i think that nikki haley is in the good way. there's a good and bad way. and some are saying i'm going to ride this trump thing to the end and i'm going to do whatever i want and punish my

enemies and we're all getting audited in this room if trump is the-- >> at a minimum. >> at minimum. and so i sort of try to-- anytime i feel tired i hold those scenarios in my head to think about just how bad it could be and the thing is it's not just most of the people in congress who would have stood up to him the last time they're gone. they've all been run out. there is brad raffensperger in georgia, there's steven richer in maricopa county in arizona, there's, i mean kemp in georgia you could probably count on to do the right thing, in fact, i'm sure you could. but it's a dwindling number of people that will stand up and so that's why it's on us to do the hard things in in moment and push one more time except he'll be the 2028 nominee, too, probably. but let's push one more time.

[applause] >> all right, you know what? that was so good that as my gift to all of you, i won't tell you why she's wrong and that we're all doomed. all right. thank you very much. thank you for coming out to the show. we really appreciate it. [applause] [applause] >> all right. we're through the first quarter, thank you. we'll now break for lunch. just a note when you come back from lunch there will be three panels outside, principles first banner with lincoln on it feel free to sign that with one of our sharpies we have sharpies out there,