when you are connected you are not alone. >> cox, lump these television comps sanport cspan2 as a public service. >> nonfiction book lovers c-span has a number of podcasts for you. listen to best-selling nonfiction authors and influential interviewers on the after word podcast for q&a. wide ranging conversations with nonfiction authors and others who are making things happen. but notes plus episodes are weekly hour-long conversations on the about books podcast takes me behind the scenes of the nonfiction book publishing industry. consider interviews and bestsellers list. went over podcast by delegate frequency spend out cap or whatever you get your podcast.

ask my name is catherine harris. i'm from beautiful downtown springfield, mr. lincoln's hometown as in illinois. i did not write this but i'm going to read it. to see what kind of lies were told. first of course at the byman name. catherine harris, a member of the former executive committee, was a longtime manager of library services at the abraham lincoln presidential library. formerly the illinois historical state library that was my ad lib. where she now serves on the board. which is a gubernatorial n.appointment even. she was the first woman. and the first african-american

to serve as present at the abraham lincoln association. and that is in honor of which i am very proud. equipment and i served as o president from 2016 until 201. low and behold i'm still keeping up my membership. okay, our first presenter this afternoon as someone we have. seen a lot. i'm going to tell you a little bit about him. jonathan weitz, buys a chairman of lincoln form is professor of american studies at christopher newport university. he is the author and editor of 13 books for the latest of which were the regulatory volumes. a house built by slaves. i have ace rent in springfield who b says you do not have to rd

the book, but you do have to buy it. [laughter] [laughter] a house built by slaves but african-american visitors to the lincoln white house was publishing 2002 to address you as my friend. abraham lincoln -- african-american letter to abraham lincoln which was published in 2021. among his other works of the award-winning emancipation, the union army and the reelection of abraham lincoln in 2014. midnight in america, darkness sleep and dreams during the civil war. that was a really interesting book. i read it and bought it. and he co-authored our little monitor in 2018. so, without further ado jonathan teweitz.

thank you catherine. thank you all for being here. today i'm going to talk about o the two most recent books that i published foror the first one is to address you as my friend african-american letters to abraham lincoln. sometime around 2014 i did give collecting letters of black men and women sent to abraham lincoln during his presidency. i ended up about one or 25 letters assigned fight hundreds of people. overall petitions with as many as 1000 signatures. black men and women for thent first time in the history of the country believed they had a president who might be interested in their concerns. claim the first amendment right to petition the government for our grievances. they were essentially writing to lincoln claiming we are citizens and we have a voice that should be heard. black men and women right to

lick the whole host of issues. there are to thank you for emancipation. they write about unequal pay issue for black soldiers will talk about in a few minutes. the worst part of their lives and they had nowhere else to turn, they would turn to abraham lincoln. i think it is a remarkable thing for the first time in american history african-american leaders in occupant and the white house who would actually listen to the concernsed. one of the letters lincoln received us in a black teenager named benjamin brown. brett had been a cabin ship. 1860 he was employed with the pistol and accidentally pulled the trigger, fired the gunnd killed another boy on the ship. when it's ship came back to baltimore he was brought into federal court and convicted of manslaughter but he received three years in prison. a 1 dollar fine and then he had to pay the court costs.

expended three years in prison and i imagine it could have afforded the dollar fine print summit would have given it to him. the court costs and under hundred $66.50. that would essentially turn his three year sentence into a life sentence. he could not get out until he paid it off. he would never get the money if he could not get out. so april 1863 with no work left attorney sent this letter to abraham lincoln. he explained the situation and asked for pardon. lincoln received this in the sally justice in brown'sc request. this is the official pardon from the national archives that lincoln gave him a full and unconditional pardon. releasing young brown from prison for another correspondent of lincoln's with this mine germ i asked her. jeremiah baptist minister in philadelphia in september 1863 sank the u.s. colored troop regiment neededd for black

chaplains to administer to the physical and spiritual needs of black soldiers. you always have to be b careful what you ask for. he asked for to get mullin told to do it. and lincoln sure annette had appointed the chaplet of the u.s. colored troop. asha is the only black chaplin to die the service. in 1965. of the person who wrote to lincoln is this man here. randolph had been born five points neighborhood of new york city. he was orphaned at a young age. he grew up to become a spiritualist and magician. [laughter]o i'm not going to tell you what that means for you got to geto the book. catherine said you do not have to read them but now you know you do. randolph didn't write to lincoln and did meet with abraham lincoln burt reynolds concerns reportingie black soldiers and

educating freed people during and after the civil war. back rent i helped found a school in 1866 he called the abraham lincoln school in lincoln's honor. i found about 20 or 21 letters from women to lincoln. this is from a woman named mary and vincent. she lives in upstate new york. she was very concerned about her family situation. her soldier husband was like fighting. they were not receiving paved the idea black soldiers refuse to receive pay until that equal pay as white soldiers which mess left many destitute. the short excerpt she wrote she what i am proud to be the wife of a union soldier. i could live on most anything so that i could live at all. but i cannot turn a single sense of them sick in bed now as i write my little ones are crying for bread and i have none to

give them. but i put my trust in god. i know he does all things well. as everyone hasly advised me to apply few for assistance i in a humble manner do so in prayer. and by african american voices they are mediated through a white person that overheard a conversation, wrote it down it's opted in dialect it can be very condescending and may or may not be with the person actually said. but in this issue get get married and vincent's own handwriting frames are present on the united states. alasan what i will show is one f my favorites mcmahon hannibal cox of the board into slavery near richmond before the civil war when the civil war broke out and two years later lincoln lever african-american soldiers come join a black regiment but as a black soldier even how to read and rights.

he was so proud of what he was doing serving his country and learning how to read and write he wanted to let his commander-in-chief now. he sent this letter to abraham lincoln. he opened up by describing his background. then the bulk of the letter is a poem about the american flag he copied out of harper's weekly newspaper. but the most touching part of this letter is this little postscript at the bottom where he wrote i send this for you to look at. it.must not laugh at i've always been touched by that sentiment. we'll have a naturalal inclinatn actually lacked by them. i think cox knew he believed that all his heart lincoln would hold this letter in his hand. he knew it lincoln might laugh at his poor penmanship or misspelled words or bad grammar and punctuation. but he was so proud of what he was doing he hoped lincoln would hold this letter and have pride

in what cox was doing. now, we do not know whether or not for sure lincoln help this letter are what his reaction was. i do believe lincoln did all this letter. i find it hard to think lincoln would have laughed at it except maybe the postscript. but the reason i believe lincoln held this letter is that unlike most of the correspondence lincoln received which is now the national archives, this letters at the library of congress under the care of michelle. those are the letters i think meant the most tor lincoln. one reason or another it lincoln cap and put him on when he died. hannibal cox was among 21 letters in that collection. black men and women sensibly right to abraham lincoln they also went to the white house to meet with him. this is a remarkable occurrence in american history. prior to the civil war african-americans are more likely to be bought and sold as

slaves by a president of the united states them to be welcomed as his guest but beginning in april of 1862, black men and women began climbing the privilege to enter to the white house stores and meet with the president of the united states. for the first year of the civil war hundreds if not thousands of white americans had done this. beginning in 1862 black men and women do it as well. so i want to tell a few stories of some of the people met with lincoln during the war. while the first of black men be with abraham lincoln was robert smalls. many of your probably for both smalls' story. into slavery in south carolina. during the first year of the war, his work essentially as a pilot on this confederate ship, the planter. but smalls kneww the risks of slavery into his family could be sold away from him at any moment. andso he did not want to stay in bondage. and so he and several friends concocted a plan to steal the confederate ship, the planter.

take her out of charleston harbors that union blockading vessels. they kept it a secret because they did not want word to leak out about what they were doing. and when that before don 1862 he and 15 other enslaved people including his wife and children, and a friend and his wife and their kids. they get onto the planter and they make their way out of charleston harbor bridge small's have been working on this ship, he knew the singles you had to make to the confederate guard to get out of charleston please bring a hat that made him lookso like a captain. i do notot of the signal expo let's pretend he put his hat at him they saw him going out he was the commander of the ship. until he gets through the first degree dangerous part of this void. but then he gets t out to the union blockading vessels. they seek a confederate ship approaching before don he has to persuade them that he is not attacking. and he is somehow able to do

that. he turned to ship over to union authorities and becomes a hero throughout the union. newspapers of the north sing his praises. an august of 1862 robert smalls traveled to washington d.c. where he told a story to an audience of 1200 people at the israel ame church which is pastored by turner. turner listen to smalls story and was astounded by it. turner later wrote about what it was like. he said smalls was a living specimen of unquestionable african heroism. while he was a d.c. smalls decided to make a stop by the white house as well. he met with abraham lincoln. we do not know exactly what the conversation was between these twome men. but knowing what i know about abraham lincoln, i have to believe lincoln said can you tell me the story? can yousm tell me how you stole

the planter and smalls mistletoe with great pride and enthusiasm. why does a meeting like this matter? up to this point in the war ever had lincoln had imposed on black men to serve in the army. he said this publicly. blackman would prove cowardly breakeven guns in their hands they met quickly white up in the hands of the rebels. but not link it met with a man who fought bravely for the freedom of his loved ones. lincoln saw he was no coward at all. this matters because when smalls returned to south carolina, he bore with them a letter from the war department that authorized theut recruitment of a black volunteers in the sea islandol region of south carolina. that legend first and second calculative volunteers. it was a meeting between link it in an african-american that helped lead to a change in policy for the union.

a few months later so think we all know it lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation with explicitly allows for the recruitment of black soldiers. just because black men were allowed to enlist does not mean they receive equal treatment. blackman and listed in the arm expecting to be paid $13 a month just like a white soldier. said they were paid $11 a month and they had additional or $10 a month and additional $3 deducted from their pay. as a clothing allowance expected 13 the really only getting $7 a monthto. any black soldiers refuse to cut this unequal pay. hundreds of black men and their family members sign letters and petitions they sent to abraham lincoln calling for equal pay. this is one who wrote to lincoln and made the argument bullets know of no difference in terms of skin color but when they are fired they do not discriminate on the account of race.

he made the case black soldiers should have the same pay as white soldiers. how are you people write to lincoln about the sum decided to meet with lincoln. august 1863 frederick douglass went toho the white house to prs lincoln on this issue but equal pay and confederate atrocities with the confederate government adopted a policy they would either execute or enslaved african-americans captain on the battlefield. not frederick douglass important to slavery in the state of maryland and had not returned to maryland sense of routes in august of 1663 he said traveled back to his native state to washington d.c. to meet the president.e douglas showed up uninvited but lincoln had not invited to the white house for this meeting. or whether he would bee received at all. when lincoln saw douglas he took him by the hand.

welcomed him into the white house office presented by by the hand until he took seats together. and they had ave conversation. the issues of unequal pay and confederate atrocities the issue atrocities lincoln conceded this was a problem that needed to be dealtn with. he did not know confederate pows sitting in prisoner of war camps for the war crimes committed by the people in the field. lincoln said he agreed black soldiers should get equal pay but at this point in the war there is so much by the white electorate was politically unfeasible but it was enough to allow blackman to fiber eventually they get equal pay but the time was not right gets. blackman born into slavery should see some monetary value becoming free but as you might

imagine frederick douglass is not altogether pleased with these answers. douglas was upset. he was recruited back social sons had a list of the 54th massachusetts pretty what a quality protection for them. but, douglas also realized, he began to appreciate the political constraints lincoln was working under. he also great appreciation for the fact lincoln treated him as an equal man when they met together. a few months later in december 1863 deck with gabe a speech in new york city. he said i have been to washington to see the president. and ask you are not there maybe whyou like to have the president united states received a blackman at the white house. he received me as you receive one settlement received another. that might elicit great applause from the audience for when the applause died down douglas then added tell you i felt the big

there. that line lead to great laughter. now come so far i've told you about two very famous men who met abraham lincoln. i want to type a few were not as famous. this is a gossipers board in my neck of the woods 1820s. ms. boehringer free black family he moved to w baltimore. that was in the wake of the rebellion virginia authorities really clamp down on the rights the free black families in virginia. augusta became a barber. he really wanted to become a doctor pipe to adversityy a pennsylvania medical college was denied admission on account of his race. he moved to toronto where he attended trinity medical school. here a medical doctor for the next six years practice medicine in toronto and trained other black doctors.

augusta saw the issue the emancipation proclamation and enauthorize black soldiers. less than a week later gus's simplest letter to lincoln. in this letter also talked about gain an education. he wanted to return and join the military as a doctor. he said the top right-hand side i could be of some used to my recent. augusta was invited to washington d.c. to be examined. the examining board saw him they contacted the war department and asked for his invitation should be rescinded he appears to be a person of african descent. stanton said no you will examine him. the doctors then the hardest questions they could come up with everyone called a squeezing process. as with flying colors. the surgeon general once the examining doctor and said i saved a crone and how is it came to let the n-word pass?

doctor cronin replied the truth is sir, the n word knew more i did and i cannot help myself. [background noises] augusta gets commissioned a major in the u.s. army. several ofrm his rank. just decent officer of the army does w not mean he wants to face hurdles. on point while traveling to philadelphia and proud punches him in the face, guess in a bloodied nose, rips off his shoulder strap giving him great. he has his people arrested he will not stand for this. another occasional traveling to washington d.c. to try to write and streetcar the conductor said you can sit outside with the driver of the front but you are not allowed to write in the car itself or you do not like that you can walk to the muddy streets. augusta refused to take these insoles lying down.

he takes his sword to the press the circulate throughout the entire nation. that debate on the floor of the senate. sumner brings this up and bring sent to the senate's s attentio. augusta is so upset about how he is being treated he could take it up with his commander-in-chief. now, i doubt a cuff that ever sell a it appeared in indiana newspaper. but that is exactly what augusta decided to do. february 5, 1864 he and another black dr. named anderson abbott who happens to be a doctor augusta trained at trinity medical school. they decided to go to a reception at the white house. the president and first lady help regular evening reception to anyone who wanted to could go in the 10 shake the president's hand. up to this point only white americans had done this. they decided to push the

boundaries they put on their uniforms and their winter wraps and they show up at the white house. and as they approach the year the beautiful music wafting out of the building. they go into the door come take off their coats and give them to servants. they then get in line to shake the president's hand. we know what happened because anderson abbott left in the account of the spirit for been a lincoln form member for several years i publish that account last year. this is not new for you guys is new for the first-timers. but we know it happened because of abbott's account. abbott described it. they walked in mind, they waited. when lincoln saw these two black doctors abbott's word that lincoln eagerly approach them and put out his hand and shook augusta's hand. at that, mary lincoln looked over she did not like what she saw in this. she sent her son robert over to intervene. robert goes to his father and said are you really going to allow this innovation? the president turns to his side and said why not?

at that, robert slinked back over to his mother. lincoln turned back to augusta come shook his hand again and then check abbott'sd items. the two black doctors with the beautiful east room of the white house for the way abbott describedgi it you can imagine e adrenaline was russian they could try to pretend they're enjoying the music and looking at the artwork. they were just everything they could to can keep their composure but they spent 30 minutes walking through the east room of the white house, the crowd of white visitors gathered in a hollow circle around them and moved around as they walked. they were astounded by what he saw. it was a practical assertion of negro citizenship. a few which prepared. he added watchingarth the scenes as good as a plate. now, this was a practical assertion of african-american

citizenship. but some african americans came to the white house to make explicit claims for citizenship and discrete allegations of black men to the white house the right to vote. in this, flipping through the famous cordiality in effectou fr galloway who led a delegation of. importing flavored north carolina. he escaped in the whole poll of a proprietorship he got fulfilled up in find cap up a powerful reaction whose did wayne fill said galloway spores had been opened up and move leaking blood. but galloway now finally free. during the civil war galloway worked as a spy for benjamin beutler. and in north carolina and the new bern region by eight and 63, galloway was s working as they

were little black soldiers into the union army. wanted to push lincoln on the right to vote for he that fight other black men. some had been freaked to the white house for they brought with them a petition odor in north carolina from 1776 until 1835. there were never any issues with blackman voting before we should have that right again. they got too the white house thy were welcomed into the front door. what both galloway labor described this. most magistrate judge in craven county have been insults. if we done that to ask for the small right he said the offender would have been sent. go to the back door that is the place for the n-word's. but this person so that is not how lincoln treated us.

he comments on the net he lengthened lincoln to christ we knocked on the door is open unto us. seek the president joy and comfort of her hurts. we ask and receive his sympathies and promises to do all for us he could. he did not tell us to go around to the back door. like a true and noble hearted chief, with as much courtesy in japanese embassy he invited us into the white house. the men described have took him by the hand, shook their hands and the and struggle and he said theyin were quote the struggle they were making further right was a good one. do he could for them. this control at the state level but lincoln told us delegation delegation right to vote for african-american men would really have to happen in the reconstruction process.

what the delegation's net around this time in an interesting argument to lincoln. they said if you want to secure all of the union sentiment in this self, the best way to do it is to enfranchise black amendment. at some point the nation will come back together. the war will end the south to be reconstructed for the minds of ex- confederates who were traders but there's also a very large population the south that has been a loyal this time but when the delegations persuaded lincoln the best way to secure the peace was to begin thinking about enfranchise a black man. and again these black visitors have an effect on lincoln thinking for the day after both egone of the black delegations,e wrote a letter to the governor elect michael on. he said his very famous words. i fairly suggest you private consideration with some of the

colored people may not be let in breed that is let into the especially those who fought gallantly in our ranks. they would probably help in some trying time to come to keep the jewel of liberty within the family of freedom. for lincoln he was coming to understand that if you wanted peace to survive. if you want the jewel of liberty to endure the involving african-americans as well as white americans. i let up a slide and benefit of frederick douglass. uptight and why the spring of 1860 4a woman named caroline johnson came to the white house. she spent some time working as a nurse. he was renowned as an artist. she wanted to make a gift to lincoln to thank them for what he had done on emancipation.

she had beautiful >> fruit display. the cost or whether $50 to make. he had a retail value of $350. she got introduction to the white house. if the public parts of the white house and the ground floor has second-story office. to present this gift to lincoln in the white house library. i have space in the washington ulmonument. as a private space for the first family. ekeep liquid take a nap if you need one during the day or early in the morning he might wake up and go to the library. they played with her friends in this room. this was a private living space of the president. this is the first time that an

african-american was welcomed into the first family april 2, 1864 johnson and her minister show up at the white house with 8% this gift to lincoln the minister says a few remarks. then he turned to caroline johnson perhaps mrs. johnson like to say a few words. was understandably very nervous. not knowing what to say. burning sensation came over her body. she said it fell atnt the holy spirit. her mind went to the book of isaiah chapter 51 out of promises everlasting comfort and salvation. the old testament prophet says this in. listen me you who pursue righteousness. look to the rock from which you were hewn. look to abraham your father.

with those words in her mind caroline johnson looked at abraham lincoln. mr. president believe god has union out of iraq for this great and mighty purpose. many been led away from bribes of gold and silver of presence. you have stood firm. you are faithful he will be with you. lincoln was visibly moved by these words. he responded with a few remarks pretty thank you for the beautiful present choking back tears he said you must not give praise to me and ponce to god. douglas used in the white house in 1864.fo as many of you note lincoln was for the public a nomination for president the summer of 1864. as a very bad time for the war effort. i was convinced he would lose his reelection.

summon tomato from from the first time douglas showednv up. this time lincoln invites him for the team and sit down together the talk politics for a few minutes. douglas i hate slavery as much as you do. then i want to see it abolished altogether. the r problem was the slaves wee not running away in as great as numbers as lincoln had hoped. emancipationec proclamation is t as effective as lincoln hoped it might be a douglas responded by saying the slave owners do not tell the slaves about it so they do not know up to run away. the two men sat down together concocted a plan douglas' words and of scouts into the towing the enslaved people run away now while you still have thein chan. because when lincoln loses reelection a new president will take office and withdrawal the emancipation proclamation.

your golden opportunity for freedom will be gone. now unfortunately sherman captured atlanta and things that were for the union. and in the shenandoah valley. lincoln sailed intoo reelection and nothing had to come of this plan. i was extraordinarily important moment when lincoln and douglasy met. but it would think about emancipation we think about a military's necessity. to save the union to win the war. and it is true. many of lincoln's critics today his heart was not in black freedom. douglas recognized douglas showed otherwise trying to free the slaves at this time nothing to do with winning the war. nothing to do saving the union. nothing to do with military necessity. it had to do with making freedom as broad and as permanent as possible. this meeting had a profound effect on how douglas viewed the present rate douglas later said

what he said on this day showed a deeper moral conviction against slavery that i had ever seen before anything spoke or written by him. i listened with the deepest interest and profoundest satisfaction. met many african s he traveled through washington. these meetings did not only take place in the white house one day in may of 1862, lincoln to a local hospital where white union were convalescing and. a nurse there introduced him to three black cooks. they were fugitives from slavery at least two of them had come from kentucky and they were living in washington, d.c.. serving the union as cooks in this army hospital. and lincoln was introduced to them and he went up to them and he took each of them by the hand and said their name. how do you do, do you do? garner treated them as human beings, offered them respect,

showed them the gratit offer the them respect showed them the gratitude he had for their service in the union what lincoln didn't see but the nurse saw was that the white soldiers behind him were cursing and using the n word that lincoln would treat these people with such respect. on occasion lincoln would stop at the contrabands camp near where howard university is today and visit with the black refugees who were living there. and this is actually a photograph of that contraband camp and it depicts the black refugees if you look very closely you can see they're holding song books. and they would sing for lincoln and the caption for this image is that they were preparing for a visit by the president preparing to sing for him. before one of the visits that lincoln and mary lincoln made to the contraband camp commander of the camp went to young black woman in 20s named mary diane sawyer and asked to prepare a song to sing for the president said her knees she

stumbled before the people and knees were trembling as she sang nobody knows what trouble i see but jesus the thought of singing before the president nearly killed me and sang verse on her own and then in the second verse thes other black refugees joined in and looked over at the president and saw that he was crying. and over the course of the singing they sang several songs, she described how the black refugeesing began to sing and shouts and yell -- but she said that lincoln didn't laugh at them. and there's that sentiment again we saw it in the letter at the beginning and we see it again here in the recollection by mary dyne where two african-americans from different life situations one from yanked one from virginia and further south they both had a fear that lincoln might if laugh at them. because their expressions were different than his, and ind

neither case, did lincoln laugh. in fact, in this case lincoln joined in the singing and when they got to john brown's body she said lincoln joined in the chorus and sang as loud as everyone there and belted out glory, glory and the president had a sweet voice. and it sounded so sad when he tried to follow along. and that he choked up once or twice. it's little wonder that when lincoln died african-americans believed they had more to lose in his death than anyone else. they had come to see him as their president as their friend they had come to see the white house as their people's house as well. reflecting on lincoln's death one black union army veteran said our faith was almost staggered. that faith which had sustained us in so many battles was now staggering under a blow which

was severer than any battles that death of our immortal leader -- no one captured the sorrow better than secretary of the navy getting in wells. he described in his diary seeing hundreds of african-americans outside of the white house on pennsylvania avenue. he said it was mostly women and children weeping and whaling their loss. well said this crowd did not aappear to diminish through the hhole of that cold wet day. they seemed not to know what was to be their fate. says their great benefactor was dead and hopeless grief affected me more than anything else. though strong and brave men whept i met them i hope two books and these remarks can help us recapture a sense of the relationship thaton developed between abraham lincoln and african-americans during the civil war and it shows us a relationship of listening and of communication where he listened

to them they listened to him, and they even changed his mind on a couple of very important matters. and i think it's a history that's been lost for a very long time with that, thank you so much. and i look forward to your questions. [applause] go ahead. you want to say the remarks? >> i think we have time for a couple of questions. so -- to the microphone if you have a question speak loudly and enunciate unless you're christians going to the microphone he doesn't need amplification do you have a question? i guess we'll have to sing. >> i have one. >> i i have a question. from near washington, d.c. -- >> hi. welcome. >> i was wondering if you can talk sources for letters if anyone a were in private

collections or had unusual discovery. >> yeah most of the letters so there's 125 in the book and the tragic thing ab book like this is you publish it and you find more so i found three more already that are really good that i wish i could have included. most of them are at national archives out of the 125 about 100 are national archives 21 are at the library of congress, and five were public letters that appear in the newspapers or as pamphlets. the way i -- i don't know how i started the project i think i encountsered a couple of letters that the national archives and that got mes started but then the way i was able to do the research was through our friends in springfelt there's a project known as theoj papers of abraham lincoln and they are working to digitize every letter or document that was sent to or from lincoln or any piece of paper he might have touched at some point. and they have found tens of thousands of documents of the

national archives in library of congress an they've put them online.ut now the problem with the database and there's over 81,000 of these documents at their website. andd if you go my website jonathon white.org i link to it so easier for me to tell you that link than theirs because i don't know theirs. if you go to their website, you can -- you can search by name of correspondent or you can browse by record group. and so what i did was i thought about what might african-americans be writing to lincoln about and how might those letters have been routed through thes federal bureaucray and then i'll check those records groups because each record group correlates with a branch or division or agency of the federal government. and so i was -- none of them are transcribed i had to go in and read through them and i would just read letters and iff i found a letter and i wasn't sure if it was a white writer or black writer i would go to census and try to find person to figure it out. and that was how i uncovered most of them.

letters i myself proud of -- actually are the ones like benjaminik brown's where i have two chapters on black convict who is wrote to lincoln seeking pardon as far as i can tell they have not utilized record group 204 at theou national archives n college park yet they give an extraordinary portrait of the black experience especiallyk in washington, d.c. and -- how they appeal to lincoln and then how lincoln reacts. so -- thank you. >> brian. >> great to sees you john. i want to ask if you could elaborate more on two delegates that are sent from the city of new orleans arnold and john baptiste. >> yeah i would be happy to and i cut them out of the talk in part for time and i've talked about them a lot so i didn't want to do same thing i've done for a lot of many of you have heard before. they were two light skinned

ceils people of african spanish, french, english desent part of that population in louisiana, and they -- brought up in january of 1864, they had a petition signed by a thousand people in new orleans. the first two signatures were theirs, next 28 were black veterans of the war of 1812 who had fought with andrew jackson at thedr battle of norts and thn roughly a thousand signatures to follow and they make the argument that they are wealthy free born tax paying educated men and they should have the right to vote.th march 4th had 1864 they bring that petition to lincoln. and they sit down together and lincoln's office and have a conversation about it and there were white women in the room who were horrified lincoln was having a conversation with two men of color. and lincoln essentially says to them you should have the right to vote. i don't have any control over it but if you can come up with a justification that relates to

winning the war, and saving the union then i can support it. and -- they go away, and they meet with charles sumner and they might have met with chase too i don't recall. and on march 10th, they write a new petition where they -- they say all black men should have the right to vote whether born free or not and this is where they make the argument that there's a large loyal population in the south. and it's -- i can't prove this. but i think they return to the white house on march 12th and presented this new petition to lincoln and then it's the very next day march 13th that lincoln sends the letter to governor hahn. and from that point forward, lincoln is working behind the scenes tois push for black suffrage and we have to realize this is a huge transformation in 1830s and 40s lincoln placed race card making, you know, pokingat at martin van buren for supporting black suffrage and lincoln publicly oppose black vote rights.

now, 30 years later, or 20 some years later lincoln reverse course for a year works bngdz scenes to fight for black suffrage and then finally in the last fourr days of his life coms out publicly in favor of it and i do believe it was meeting with african-americans that helped push him in that way. goil to john and then back over ohto walter. >> okay. >> john from washington -- from d.c. -- >> i want to thank you for nmentioning augusta anne abbott threee african-american surgeons in the union army but one of the things a lot of peoples don't know was abbott was good friends with elizabeth and he was one who actually brought when mary lincoln summoned her to peterson house he was who you know brought elizabeth to the peters son house. >> yeah. >> abbott is an incredible urfigure and he left us memoirs that have been published they're available on google books to i highly recommend them you. >> other guy was first black

member of the -- yeah. augusta first black member of the howard medical facility. >> i'm not sure by at all meet with chase i work hard to put them in the same room and i couldn't do it. talk a little bit about lincoln's meeting in august of '62 with the -- with the black delegation that lincoln then puts out a press release. >> so in august of 1862, lincoln has one of his most famous meetings with african-americans and i have two chapters on this in the book. july of 1862, lincoln deedses to issue an emancipation proclamation, and i know walter you havean some misgivings about this t story but stewart is said to have persuade lincoln to wait until there's a union victory. and lincoln is waiting and he's waiting and while he's waiting doesn't come to december 17th while lincoln is weight he does a number of things help to

prepare the north for what is coming and harold holder has a wonderful essay on this in his book on lincoln in emancipation. with harvard university -- and one of the things that lincoln does to help prepare the north is he summons five black leaders into the white house to meet with them. and he then proceeds to lecture them on it why they -- why african-americans are the cause of the war and why they should lead african-americans out of the country through a known as columnization but panama has great coal mines you'll do great down there and it is horrible condescending mommy as a lincoln guy it's one of three or four moments like do you have to dore it that way do you have to say that you make it hard on us to -- talk about it what you're doing, and what was lincoln doing here? why did he invite five black men into the white house and then lecture him?e

well lincoln also invited a stenographer who wrote down everything that lincoln said and lincoln wanted this message to go out g to the racist white northern electorate. he was preparing them for emancipation he wanted to know if emancipation comes and lincoln decided emancipation was coming but if emancipation comes you doangts need to be as worried aboutrr it because i'm going also push for columnization as well. now -- now this is i think a unfortunate moment of loirng's presidency in any book i call it regrettable. but -- when we know what lincoln was doing we can see how he was trying to help shape public sentiment and there's another moment that i think is really important for understanding this. lincoln never told anyone his strategy and called him most shut mouth man i ever knew and shortly after had this meet lincoln appears to have been brought henry and mcneel turner that pastor i showed into the

bhows -- and lincoln essential willly frm what turner wrote lincoln said tose him you don't need to worry about colonization and the way it uses misdirection to try to look over here while i'm doing something here lincoln was pointing somewhere for his white audience while he wasil doing rl trick which was emancipation and it's incredible that for lincoln the guy who didn't tell generally tell people his -- innermost thoughts he entrusted those thoughts to a black minister who then let the black community know through the christian recorder. so the way i'll sum it up with this and about out of time william lloyd garrison of this moment called it, quote, a spectacle as hue mill yaight as it was extraordinary it was humiliating to see the president

of the united states speak in such a condescending way on the other hand it was extraordinary for the first time in the history of the country a president of the united states had invited black men to the white house to talk politics. and all you need to do is look at how the democratic press responded to this moment. from their perspective it is outrageous that lincoln would bring them into the white house and in their words treat him -- treat them as equals and so it is a very complicated moment but that sort of my take on that. so we wrap it up -- >>we we should wrap it up. >> thank you. [applause] if you're enjoying american history tv sign up for our newsletter using qr code on thes screen to receive the weekly schedule of upcoming programs like lecture and history, the presidency and more, sign up for the american history tv newsletter today and be sure to watch american history tv every

saturday or any time online, at c-span.org/history. weekends on c-span2 are intellectual feast american tv documents america story and on sundays booktv brings you the latest nonfix books and authors. funding for c-span2 comes from thesing television companies. and more, including charter communications. charter is proud to be recognized as one of the best internet providers. and we're just getting started. building 100,000 miles of new infrastructure to reach those who need it most. charter communications along wi these television companies supports c-span2 as a public service. visit c-spanho