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>> midco supports c-span as a public service along with these of the television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy.y. >> a discussion on relations between washington's former ambassador to the south american nation and highlighted the importance of black america's as well as foreign policy and all china and the nation's top trading partner for nearly 15 years. >> vice president and director of policy here at the brookings

institution and i'm delighted to welcome you to our event today. this event marks the start of our conference on u.s. and result organized by my colleague in organizing this event the foundation for their support and respect day and the brookings working report. rapid turn of events shaping the future of relations between the united states. both countries internal political and economic challenges of their own and newl opportunities cooperate. rent branches of government where the image is 21 and the u.s. capitol president visited

biden here in washington d.c. climate change and improving bilateral cooperation of trade and innovation. while the biden administration has committed to strengthening the u.s. relationshipra t resul, especially in light of the bicentennial of the relationship between the countries, all of this is happening in a rapidly changing relations in the u.s. during support ukrainians russia's aggression and pursue has come. the economic rise of china and issues of global carbon especially in the economic financial agreement diversion

relationship and the timely honored to be joined by, he is ambassador he served in this capacity under president obama 21022013 and appointed as counselor of the state department in 2015 under secretary of state for political affairs in 2015 to 2018. more than three decades having served six presidents and 11 secretaries of state green ambassador, highest ranking position in foreign service. currently policy advisory in the headquarter. following his keynote address to discussis issues allowing for introductions of foreign policy.

my panel is bruce jones, senior fellow at brookings and whose work is focused on multilateral domain as well as international security. brown is a senior fellow and direct nonstate armed actors. research focus on organizede crime and nontraditional security threats and southa africa. one of the countries they couldn't foreign policy geopolitical affairs. the school of international relations, the foundation in brazil where he serves as a professor and a visiting fellow at the institute for international regional studies and regional expertise focuses on political violence, international security and climate politics in latinin america.

it was during the panel and discussion before we begin, we are currently live streaming and on the record. for those of us joining virtually, please send questions or use the #. microphones will be passed around here in the auditorium during the question and answers. the podium is outdoors. [applause] >> good afternoon. tremendous pleasure today, gradually brookings institution and thank you for hosting this conference. united states and brazil in the hemisphere and the world and i thought i would start with something for those of you

familiar with the composer thomas and his long, this is a song he wrote about the reins during the rainy season in which he captures and lyrics all of the impression he has during theseiv rains as he sitting in s farm and he sings this song in modern history and it's kind of a call in which he says something, kind of a rat and for me it is exquisitely beautiful

and it captures the passing nature of our central perceptions but to think about brazil captured as well, this transitory nature, it beats him to joy and as he sings his song is this course after each experience, he keeps returning to life, is the joy, the end of activity in other words, joy, breaks out and the story behind the song is that he gone to his arm to build a wall, not a wall

like the us-mexico border the wall on his boundary line and he couldn't do it because there so much blood they could not unload the bricks they brought in to build the wall so he focus on everything else and for me at least was important about this is that i think we need to understand the relationship because we come to construct a certain relationship both united states and brazil but the nature of the world is like the rain in rio de janeiro, it's comforting the wall we want to build because the world has changed and become more complicated and difficult so what we need to do is look around and begin to

perceive the relationship, perceive it in terms of how we as a nation gauge. i would argueda the u.s. brazil relationship is the foundational pieces of 21st century diplomacy. you all know this result in the united states have democracies, the two largest economies, to continental countries in south america and to diverse dynamic populations that have attracted people all around the world

seeking opportunity to build new lives in bothli countries have global ambitions that extend beyond our geography. the geographical area might be south america in the united states might be north america fbut the address of countries extend far beyond our hemisphere but what is important is the relationship between the countries goes far beyond and includes societies of two countries. both countries globalized, the encounters that drives the relationships between our two countries are increasingly between private sectors, civil society is faith community.s. add depth and richness that

reflects shared historic images andd gives the human face to our relationshiphu and diplomacy and allows us to understand partnership not only in terms of national power and interest but also individual opportunity and well-being in this unusual aspect of our relationship has several consequences not easily received or understood. the first is our relationship and purpose is larger than our government and larger than strategic interest by the government. a relationship defined only in strategic terms for only in terms of leadership is narrow and i believe it's taken and missus the larger sweep of the relationship and possibilities

of cooperation and collaboration. ourn. relationship, the unusual aspect of the relationship has several consequences, the verses what i mentioned, our relationship and purpose is larger than the government. the second is that our relationship is increasingly social. this means you touches all aspects of our society from education to healthcare, justice and security. it's focused on prosperity, advancing liberty and enhancing societies that define our democracy and third similarities

created political synchronicity. what happens in one country happens in the other. this is important and one i think will need to focus on the next severalo days both united states are polarized politically and geographically and to a certain extent socially. both have become deeply partisan in the united states and partisanship sharplyin defined because of our two-party system. twenty-six party system of brazilst provides little more space to operate and when it comes to doing deals but political divisions are stillan

significant in the partisanship that defines our country has a negative component, anti- partisan and anti- opposing party component affects political discourse and in both countries because of the polarization and partisanship elections have become high-stakes affairs in which people understand power to be in play and power to fundamentally reshape aspects, the economy and society.sh these are not evidence that brings people together, they drive people a apart generate fr and loathing. this last piece about the similarity is something worth taking a closer look at because i would argue result in the u.s.

are mimicking each other and as noted we had january 6 and january 8, there were differences between the8. two, january 6 interfered with the count of the electoral college and stop and electoral process in january 8 happened after the elections after winter have been determined and after the winter had sworn in there's a clear message they were buying message of unity and had no intention of working with the government. in this, it is important to note the polarization and political dynamics we see in both countries of the product of the rapid pace of change in brazil and the united states and the

ability of political institutions to keep up. a feeling or belief political parties and their leadership are not responding representing the people that they were elected to represent in. response to but thinking about this in the political dynamic we face in the united states and brazil we oftentimes talk about a crisis of democracy, a crisis of institutions. i believe what we are really facing in bothal countries is a crisis of public governance and in particular the state capacity. as we look at the future of the u.s. brazil relationship, i have no doubt we are defined by

global partnerships and have no doubt the issues we discussed in the panel today and the rest of the conference will reflect the challenges we face globally. you mentioned ukraine but there are others. nicaragua and beyond but in many ways i think before we can fashion a global partnership that works, we must find a way to show democracy can deliver. we are capable of using governance to create democratic societies. in some ways, this was the importance of president putin's visit to washington d.c. united states had, months before the election begun to work

rightly but purposefully in brazil and elsewhere to ensure brazil had electronic voting equipment is needed to conduct its elections the company producing electronic equipment had the semiconductors needed, that the world understood what electronic voting met in brazil and how to cure it was and how important it was to ensure the quick and sure count and one people could rely on and we worked very quietly with the expertise of people in the u.s. government to deliver precise and well targeted messages to groups inside brazil about the importance of respecting democratic process, elections and ensuring the results of that

election were respected and o allowed to present themselves as the leadership of brazil. this commitment by the united states and this level of involvement is not unique, at least unusual, the u.s. brazil relationship but one which the biden administration taught was critical and essential to our well-being of a partner but wanted back into the national environment and the meeting that took place in thehe white house focused on the nature of democracy, the importance of democratic governmentic and the need to ensure united states and brazil will find a way to advance democratic nations something that requires not just government as i noted society

and it requires ways to facilitate relationships between our societies that accelerate this process of a moving toward democratic society, enhancing capability of people to live with an open society andnd ensue individuals have the resources and opportunity necessary not only to have a voice in determining national destiny but a voice in determiningna individual because what i think we are seeing throughout at least our hemisphere, the americas is a belief that government is about creating this larger idea of an open society full of opportunity and potentiality and in order for societies to regain this sense of adventure and purpose, that opportunity has to be presented

to society and i believe the united states and brazil need to start focusing not onlyrt on the larger geopolitical count we face around the globee but especially how you make government and democracy work and how we can show our shared experience and similar heritage can be used and fashioned in a way that advances well-being of the american people and brazilian people. another brazilian composer wrote a song called the wave that has a line in it -- it means we have alone. i would argue brazil and the united states, it is impossible to be happy alone, we have to be

able to work together around this declaration of independence expressed the purpose of politics in terms of life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness. i would argue any country in the world that understands the pursuit of happyness is brazil i thank you for yourr presence and your patience and look forward to the panel discussion. [applause]

>> think all of you for being here a long time since i heard talk that had so much sobriety but also enjoy joy is not what we often associate with the policy but it's delightful. extremely effective in mitigating and one thing you talked about relationship that stands the private sector and a range of issues in the state relationship matters. in the entire modern history, you are the only person under

the western hemisphere, is there not a distinction between the importance of the relationship the one hand and the way the relationship is seen as within the government? >> i like to think of me -- [laughter] >> and establish house lodges are near neighborhood but expensive neighborhood and what we have done a protected is billed a kind of strategic refuge of common political understandings and practices, common economic understanding, understanding of the individual. ...

and i'm not saying that the other challenges wee face around the world are not significant for real.ic they are but what i would argue is that we have in the western hemisphere this reserve of friendly countries with few exceptions. that can work together and have built the regional and subregional entities that can foster politicalal dialogue, tht can generate trade, and address these larger social issues that we are facing. and this is a wonderful thing to have as we try to wrestle with security issues around the world, that we're not good to solve anytime soon. i would like to think that this is a base of operations, at the western hemisphere is our island

and we canan sail the seven seas and protect ourselves from the rest of the world, but we can have a very good life here. >> right. you have been an acute observer of brazilian foreign policy for little longer than when we first met, some years back. you must've been very busy the last few months. it's been very turbulent. quite a lot of terms of the real engines of foreign policy and ups and downs in u.s. brazil relationship already. first short period of months so please yourr perspective. >> great. let me begin by saying this is the first speech on u.s. brazil relations in five years a thing of which the word china doesn't come up so thank you for that. because it shows -- >> that was myy next question. >> what the relationship is about. i think two highlights in the ambassador's remarks which i think are really quite important. first of all the under appreciation both in washington

and crucially in brazil as well as to the importance of this relationship. most people don't really get the importance not only for hemispheric relations, historically, that it's important for international lawo going all the way back to the hague conferences at the beginning of the 20th century, or the interwar period in the u.s. hemisphere with the fight against the nazis in the south atlantic or the building of the liberal international order startingng in 1945. you can pick the united nations or you can pick the world bank or the inter-american development bank, or youou can pick the international monetary fund in all these instances. the relationship between the united states was crucial. oftentimes not singing the same tune like -- oftentimes going at one another but normally trying

to build aal wall together or a door in the wall rather, i want to say. so those things are important. the second thing i think is worth highlighting is, if this is remarkable because for people, brazilians of my generation, it's the first time the united states came out at a time of enormous difficulty for brazil in the last four years, when democracy was under very serious threat and the united states came out in support for brazil in ways that were overt. they were very clearly communicated. the entire political classth cod tell crucially the brazilian military when b they decided, correctly, not to align with bolsonaro, one of the main reasons they gave publicly was that if they were going to bed with bolsonaro, it would not get

recognition from the united states and i would be unsustainable for them as they have grown ever more dependent onnt cooperation from the u.s. military. so these things are really quite important. now, the way i see this relationship go is this, there are way too many instances in which we don't sing the same tune, , but that's not the one i worry about, the ukraine, sometimes china. that's not my main concern. my mainth concern is those instances in which interests online but coordinated policy becomes impossible, even when interests are aligned. take the case of venezuela today. this is the first time in a generation in which both i brazl and the united states have a shared interest in engaging the venezuelan regime. finally both speak the same language for thell first time. and yet they don't get to

coordinate policy. and because they don't coordinate policy, the outcome is that even if they're on the same page, this is not putting pressure on the venezuelan regime to begin to liberalize. let me give you another example. for the first time in a generation as well, the two countries are on the same page on industrial policy. i mean, you listen to jake sullivan speak and you can hear them give you their spiel and yet he comeses washington and wn they sit down to talk, climate change, this is not what we're talking about. brazil is now launching into and social policy for the car industry, and it's completely divorced from the terms of the debate of what's going on here in this country moving forward on that crucial element of the politics of climate change moving forward. so my concern is that there is something about this relationship that doesn't quite gel. the best paper on the bilateral relationship in the late 1980s

is by peter hake and who is here today, and it's called the missing relationship. the best book on the bilateral relationship in the late 1990s by monica hearst, a professor, is called the road of unmet expectations. so there's something about this relationship that gets us a song that is to superimpose voices that sometimes go all over the place. >> veryacac interesting. vanda, he talked about a number of issues you've talked about a written about, climate issues. let me bring in for your perspective on the issues were talking about today. >> well, it's interesting you bring up unmet expectations. i think were already starting to see it in two ways, , both in te u.s.-brazil relationship is emerging where the biden administration has clearly hoped that the support it provided for

democratic institutions and processes would be recognized by president lula and what implications brazil's policy in international arena.ti and this is i think all the more significant, and we haven't seen to come the expectations i get to come to fruition on on a e range of issues from china and ukraine that of the mentioned but also with some of the regional issues within latin america such as venezuela, nicaragua and whole set of others. this is all the more significant however because president lula has really defined his initial policy focus in terms of the internationall arena. his team has been brazil is back, brazil is back on the international stage. and yetge it is an international domain will receive the juncture between what the united states would want, brazil's policies and choices to be, and what

brazil's policies and choices are. in the theme of unmet or challenging expectations, also connects very significantly with ambassadorss shannon important trust of democracy or political processes delivering the outcomes for a wide segment of local populations can provide segment of thewi nation. this is where lou the second, third term, lost count, time in office is very different than his first terms. but at the time brazil was benefiting greatly from theti commodity move and was growing very robustly. and brazil was able to undertake a whole set of policies in the social domain, but be on the social domain they benefited many people that lifted me people out of poverty, but all of them into lower or even upper-middle-class, and that

underpinned lula's focus and trust in the national demand, the integration with the focusti on a whole set of american regional economic institutions that underpinned his foreign policy. and that domestic economic growth, the domestic economic stability, the sense of joy and optimism that ambassador shannon spoke about his missing in brazil. and it's not missing just in the short term. the bolsonaro years get it institutions, we can govern capacities, , strengthen at the democratic authoritarian processes -- gutted -- bolsonaro in many ways was an expression of the on delivery of expectations on the on delivery of goods that have taken place after, during the previous government and the second

government. the international arena for lula is very different but crucially his domestic ability to generate the grounding, the base for his foreign policy, is very different. so the set of unmet expectations and what he can achieve is obviously playing out in the international arena but it will be also dramatically playing out in the domestic space. now, we are talking the first 100 days of the administration is premature absolutely, i ways to go but it's a very challenging environment for him and the prospect on unmet expectations, on failing to deliver is veryet real. >> tom, anything you want to respond to or sort of at two from those two perspective?dd >> i think they were both excellent sets of comets. i think we should provide. >> good. we have several hundred people online and many of them have

questioned and arrested and that through overwhelming things. china, climate change, and trade. i'll return to questions from the room and a few minutes but before i do let me sort of draw from that audience, online audience question to ask our panel about those topics. you touch very brief you on climate and i will come back to it but let's start with a large seat in the room, the first one it hasn't that sunshine of the china has been very present in the u.s. isoo a relationship in the last several months. >> i was very struck in aftermath of the lula summit meeting. i had two sets of messages in my whatsapp. one was from resilience and i hope the administration doesn't confuse this with meaning that were somehow aligned with them on the geopolitical agenda. and subsequently messages for my american friends saying, -- [inaudible]

after the ukraine comments in china. so it's driving the focus on china and to vanda and tom how significant this is a china peace planf terms of complicatig the american ability to get this right? >> great. so if you look at towards the western hemisphere time is not a problem at all until say 15 years ago. around 15 years ago it pops up and then it really begins to dominate the tender of the conversation and all of the strategic writingti in the u.s.n the trump administration. right? and the story is in the early 2000s at the i height of unique polarity if you want when the united states is contrary n other parts of the world, part of thehe eye and discount is ist great china wants to extend trade and finance the latin america? because then it helps us that were so much about this part of the world which a needs clearly more trade and investment. if you remember it's the united states that invites china to

participate and help capitalize inter-american development bank, and this is 20 years ago, right? then things change really very dramatically t and now every pie is about u.s.-china a petition in the region. and i can understand it. this is new to the united states. it's the firsts u time really 0 years that the united states has to cope with a rival competitor for real in latin america. because if remember back in cold war days, the soviet union was of course heavily invested in cuba, but the man's from leftists across the americas from the kremlin to provide support never got anywhere. certainly not in south america, although the globallo cold war provided the framework for u.s. policy in every single country in the region. u.s. authorities are not used to having to deal with other major

powers meddling in the western hemisphere, and it has been the case in many, many decades. now you look at china or china is a main trade partner in major source of investment in many countries in latin america. china plays hardball with latin american countries -- >> we will leave this discussion on u.s.-brazil relations which you can watch in its entirety on the c-span now app as we take you live to the senate fulfilling our more than 40-year commitment to covering congress. a vote expected in just a few minutes on a house passed measure to repeal in washington, d.c. policing law. you're watching live senate coverage on c-span2. the presiding officer: the senate will come to order.