clinically back to promote healthy liver functions so that nothing is holding you back five good things listen wherever you get your podcasts close captioning brought to you by meso book our firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now welcome to a special edition of newsnight. >> i'm abby phillip in new york alongside kaitlan collins tonight, combat in court de 14 of donald trump's hush money trial provided a lesson in how not to make friends, how to alienate the judge, and how to maybe alienate the jury as well. stormy daniels took the stand, yet again, under cross-examination and for the

defense for donald trump and spent a whole lot of time asking questions about what they originally objected to. the details of her alleged trust with the former president of the united states. now, the crescendo of this hours-long stint on the witness stand. all led up to this trump's attorney, susan necklace, heavy handedly, the asserting that the adult film actress had made it all up necklace& you've bragged about how good you are about writing porn movies and writing really good stories and writing really good dialogue, right daniels? yes. necklace. and now you have a story you've been telling about having sex with donald trump, right? daniels. and if that story were untrue, i would have written it a lot better. there was laughter in the courtroom daniels hover of course, is not the only headline witness to take her turn under the oath. >> the jury also heard from madeline western out that's a former for gatekeeper really to the president and the head of oval office operations. she's out right outside the oval office when donald trump was president and she recounted how

she functioned as this unofficial delivery service at time running these checks between trump tower and the white house? she also gave the jury a window into something that we haven't heard up to this point, really the trump marriage and donald trump, as she described it, his sweet, sometimes doting relationship with his wife, the former first lady melania trump. the judge juan, were sean also taking off multiple reasons why the prosecution annoyed, even angered him with what they did the defense didn't object to ask for me. daniels was on the testimony. it was on the witness stand. judge merchan asieh, trump defense, why they didn't object to the mention of a condom, saying that he couldn't understand. they're asked for a mistrial with all that. they let go during the presentation of evidence. >> and tonight, also a challenge directly from stormy daniels and heals herself to the president of the united states. the adult film star, and a key witness for the prosecution posting this on aks real man responded testimony by being sworn in, taking the

stand in court, await never mind. here with me to break everything down that we learned today inside that courtroom. lee zeldin joey jackson, anna navarro, and brian stelter so let's start with joey because joe, you've got the goods that give us a little bit of what happened in the courtroom. >> well, what didn't happen in the courtroom, abby. all right. so let's start with the cross-examined patient. i want to talk about necklace defense council and stormy daniels. so let's get into it. necklace defense attorney for trump. so just so i can be clear on what you were saying, you've acted and had sex in over 200 porn movies, right? stormy daniels, honored 50 ish? yes defense counsel necklace. and there are naked men and naked women having sex, including yourself in those movies, right daniels? >> yes. necklace defense attorney, and bought according to you, seeing a man sitting on a bed in a t-shirt and boxer shorts was so upsetting that you got lightheaded blood left

your hands and feet and you almost fainted, right daniels? >> yes. when you were not expecting a man twice your age to be in their underwear? i have seen my husband naked, almost every day. if i came out of the bathroom and it was not my husband and it was mr. trump on the bed. i would probably have the same reaction. defense council and necklace and that made you feel like you were going to faint, stormy daniels? absolutely. if i came out of the bathroom and i saw an older man and his underwear that i wasn't expecting seeing there. yeah. so the question becomes, abby, why have this contentious cross-examination? my argument is, is that the cross-examinati on was not for the jury. it was to satisfied mr. trump, the client, the fact is they got everything in through stormy daniels yesterday that you can argue to the jury. it's a bias witness. she's hearing motivated he didn't buy that bias. you can't believe anything. she said. i think the

play was for donald trump to say, i want you to humiliate her. number one, i want you to re-establish my credibility. i want you to deny that a fair, totally unnecessary to go in on her like that. who got the better of this exchange? let the jury and let the 13th juror at home, you decide who got the better navarro i have to know that your response to that because obviously you know, what stormy daniels does for a living, doesn't translate to the fact that she should just be comfortable with seeing a half dressed man anywhere. >> she goes. >> well, look, first of all, i would really like to nominate joey jackson for dramatic reading. i think serves at tony nomination. i'm going to work on that but as to your question, caitlin look, i think the reason that she felt lightheaded, i think the reason she had that reaction first, let's remember that this is a a woman in her 20s. >> yes, she does what she does. but when you see a man in his underwear you thought you were going there for dinner and all of a sudden he's sitting in a bandwidth in his underwear.

that's telling you what the expectation from him of what should come next. this obviously, sex. and so i think it's a pretty big deal for her to process as as she's reacting to what she's saying to me. it's a very credible reaction, not just any mass spec height of his celebrity or a lot of women who've dealt with sexual harassment, who've dealt with men doing power place on them. >> this may have resonated, it resonated with me. >> yeah. i mean, you don't even need necessarily the spec during this being some kind of coercive dynamic, donald trump is an extremely famous, powerful man and that i think is the elephant in the room. it's almost like this exchange and so many of the exchanges with defense, you can really read them both ways. i mean, i think the defense could easily have listened to that exchange

and been very happy with how stormy daniels explained herself in that there does seem like we're seeing 2024 hours post mi to kind of a cultural awakening. all the progress this country and other countries have made in the last six, seven years collide up against decades old attitudes about men and women write it, remember this was in 2006, this was so early on before the me too movement. here we have, as you said, a woman in her 20s, amanda is about 60 years old. and what does she say? she says, quote, my own insecurity is made me feel like i had to sleep with him, not pressure necessarily from from donald trump in a physical way. nothing violent, just her own insecurities this was one of the most revealing moments i thought from stormy daniels today. >> how many cases like that, how many examples like that have we heard of women who had that kind of experience with harvey weinstein? who had that kind of experience with charlie rose that they allege right where they go in supposedly for a meeting. supposedly to meet somebody and end up seeing a guy in his bathroom? >> yeah. but old guy the reason

that team was so incensed about the day one of stormy daniels is testimony is kind of they didn't want that comparison because stormy daniels in her interview, in her testimony and in her interview with anderson cooper said, this wasn't that kind of moment. >> this was consensual sex. i wasn't forced into this. i wasn't coerced into this. right. it's a congressman. i wonder what your reaction was as you were listening to how the cross-examination went today and the point the judge made at the end, which was why did you linger? on this part so much because you're only drilling it into the jury's ears as he phrased it, did you think that was a smart tactic it's a tactical decision& be made. i wasn't in the courtroom today and they would be the best ones to talk strategy on any day. >> prosecution and defense i would say the each day that i'm watching, i was a prosecutor as well, never served on the defense. sayyed in a case. anything like this? of course and what you see is a really difficult to prove charge. these are misdemeanors

that carry a two-year statute of limitation. the theory is is that in order to be able to charge it now, the district attorney is going to have to demonstrate that this was done in pursuit of another crime. the district attorney has not yet said what that other crime is. and you get to the heart of it. we're now three weeks into the trial, and i think the time has come. i would have argued that this is something that should have been cleared before the trial started. but the time has come for bragg. bragg's office to indicate to the defense counsel how it is that a misdemeanor that has a two-year statute limitation, they expire many years ago, can get brought now now is the time if it hasn't come ready to indicate what is the underlying cross. >> so i can answer that question. first of all, that ship has sailed, it's been litigated. the reality is, is we know towards covid and as a result, what's the underlying chronic? let let me speak first and then i'll address that. the first issue is with respect to the statute of limit stations, there was a tolling of the statute during covid for all

cases, not just donald trump's cases. and as a result of that, it's told. and so you can make the argument that it's statute of limitations out. >> you lose because the reality is we're here and we wouldn't be here. >> but for the statue of limitation to the issue with respect to the underlying crime, i think we all know the reality is is that all the evidence is going going to show the issue of the election of boosting the election prospects. the challenge these are talking points. what you said, most respectful leader has been rebuffed, reviewed. it was done what the crime it's being charged, but the reality is is the crime being pride relate to the election that's not that's not a mystery, right? reason to respect that says you i'm not the district attorney say anything. i'm here to analyze the case. i said nothing. what i'm doing is looking at the case let's look at the case because that's what we're here to talk about. we're here to talk about the fact that they're arguing that that's boosted election prospects. it boosted it as a result of an end around, right? and using this for campaign purposes to bury in high to story. and by the way you know, you could say what you want. but for person who didn't have

sex with stormy daniels for a person who said this denied deny. you spent an awful lot of time trying to cover up something that never happened. in the event that occur. let her tell her story and then you come out, you say nonsense as she kidding me instead, you hide it, you hush money, and then you use your personal checking account in order to make a payment for, you could speak about statute of limitation, you can speak about what crime i think the crime the prosecutor is demonstrating is pretty heavier to make the jump in, you have to prove a crime. and how do you prove a crime and how are you innocent until proven guilty? any defendant who is in a court of law how do you go through the process of preparing for a trial where the district attorney has to prove a crime and they won't even tell you what the crime is. now understand you're saying what you think the theory is, the department of justice investigated this, just didn't prosecutor. i just see the federal elections commission can i don't know. >> second. i just wanted to settled this first settle this down for a second if they don't they don't have to say it's this x, y, and z statute.

they have to prove that a crime was committed. and one of the crimes could absolutely be that trump tried to use michael cohen to make a payment to hide the fact that that payment was made that would have otherwise needed to have been reported as a campaign contribution. but you don't have is that we're all here guessing. >> you could say educated guess. you could say, this is where i think the district attorney is going and understand that, and i respect that opinion that you have to come up with a theory. all i'm saying is i believe that the district attorney's should be stating what is the underlying crime that allows you to bring 34 misdemeanors elevating them to a felony, to bring them. now, all i'm saying is that we're three weeks in the trial and i think the time has come. it should come are ready to make it clear what it is, because the prosecution is going to have to prove that there was a pursuit of a crime and the defense is going to have to put up a defense. so two things. the first thing is we've heard the argument repeatedly that it was passed on by the federal government. they could've prosecuted this. let me tell you. first of all,

i'm a defense attorney, i believe in the presumption of innocence, mr. trump is presumed innocent until proven guilty. i have tried cases. right. and i had tried to case in the southern district. right. not so long ago, where right. >> the bronx da& the eastern district passed on the case. so the fact that somebody passed on a case means nothing. one last names, nothing. that's the reality, number one and number two, the other reality is as it comes to proving nor stabbing what the underlying crime was, they said at the outset, this case is about a conspiracy and a cover-up. and so what were they covering up and what were they conspiring to do? the case is not over and i think at the end of the de there'll be more proof, submit it, and it'll be up to the jury to make the determination. we have plenty of time for this robust debate. i would say that the da's office just the to prosecute vance is office looked into this the manhattan district attorney's office declined to prosecutors. >> let me first of all, the case is not over yet. we still have more to come on that more to come on the show as well everyone stick around for us

coming up next, we'll speak with a friend of stormy daniels who has come up in court twice this week now, we'll ask her about the grilling that her friend faced on the witness stand. plus with trump's former personal assistant set to return to the stand. morrow and michael cohen's still ahead. we'll take a look at where the prosecution stems. you're watching a special edition of lusaka the whole myth has to be re-imagined feed if you didn't know the un next they were both tied up. >> yeah. yeah. i was called it and they saw what turned out to be the big start heist in history he went from gold metal winning icon to a pariah would really happen with jesse l. martin. sunday's at nine on cnn when i was diagnosed with hiv, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am being me. >> keep being you and ask your health care provider about the

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stomach settled down. >> i'm not planning on slowing down anytime soon. >> i'll rafael romo, the georgia state capitol in atlanta. this is cnn in an stormy daniels is back on the witness stand today, concluding more than seven hours of testimony that started on tuesday, trump's lawyers spent their entire cross-examination attacking daniels is credibility and repeatedly

suggesting that she lied about her story they also highlighted her work in the pornography industry to discredit her. >> my next guest is a friend and a colleague of stormy daniels is whose name actually came up in the trial on tuesday and was referenced again today in court. a lot of evan says she was almost in that room that night in 2006 and says trump told her over the phone to come party evans decided not to and would eventually speak out publicly after the two initially denied the affair, a lot of evans joins us once again, a lot of good to see you before we get into stormy's testimony, which i definitely want to get your take on your reaction to your name coming up in court again, it wasn't really by name explicitly, but here is what the defense said to you to the court about this gag order. she said she was on television last night talking about what happened and also corroborating what ms daniels said. this isn't president trump again, being able to say

this never happened. this isn't true. it's now him having to not be able to respond to this new version of events that now deals very deeply with a very different issue than a sexual event that took place in 2006 what's your reaction to that it's funny to me because trump has had full opportunity to talk about this ever since it came out in 2016 and 2017. >> and their toys and his choice at that time was to continue to speak through michael cohen and say that it was all lies. it's not as if he has anything new to add to this, which is telling the truth and as stormy so eloquently put earlier, he can take the stand and testify himself if he wants to get his voice out there so badly. >> you said earlier this week that you had not been reached out to but by anyone to be a part of this case. is that still true that's correct. not

yet. >> have you had a chance to speak at all with your friend stormy not since the case has gotten within chord. and honestly, i've made the choice to stay back and not attempt to interfere in any way while she's giving her time and her testimony what did you make of how she was on the stand today? did you think based on what you've seen and heard, that it was a different demeanor than how she was a couple of days ago i think today she was directly challenged by trump's lawyer and again, told that she made this all up. >> the comments about her being an actress in the adult film industry and being able to create stories about sex was a very crude remark against our

profession. the two are very different things. stormy is talking about something that happened to her and sharing details that are very explicit because it's the truth and being accused of lying yet again, it's just incredibly frustrating for her. i would imagine as someone who works in that adult film industry, did you view the questioning from the defense as an attempt to shame stormy? >> it definitely feels as if now the defense has been given their time to shame stormy to attempt to harass her one of your commentators earlier just mentioned about how this was trump's lawyers opportunity to humiliate stormy and it really seemed as if that was their agenda today. they weren't getting anything out of her with those questions. it was just an attempt to shame her

all right. >> a lot of evans. thank you very much for joining us. we appreciate you. taking the time tonight thank you i've next one star witness off the stand, another one to go with michael cohen, yet to testify where does the prosecution's case stand? in donald trump's hush money trial? we'll discuss that with our panel. stay with us is the playoffs what do you see? >> my first championship in houston, sall's not winning a championship this try and stay positive on positive. he didn't win a ring you have chronic kidney disease. >> you can reduce the risk of kidney failure with parts sega because they're places would like to be for seeker can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration urinary tract what are genital yeast infections and low blood sugar a rare life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur, stopped

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we've been creating it for more than 100 years, from the most advanced technology to the broadest, most reliable network of sales and service dealers. always moving forward. we lead. others follow. started today, accustoming.com i'm natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn we are in day 14 of the donald trump hush money cover-up trial, and the prosecution has called 14 witnesses to the stand so far but the question is, have they done enough to convince the jury that trump falsified

business records to cover up hush money payments to help his presidential campaign and another big question, when will michael cohen, the alleged facilitator of this hush money payment, actually testify. but let's take a step back and take a deeper dive into where things stand and our panel is back with us along with stacey schneider, an attorney as well. also, someone who knows donald trump well, former contestant at on what's the apprentice. what's the name of that shown on the select celebrity pretty celebrities? so we've heard from these 14 witnesses so far. how do you think the prosecution's case is progressing now that stormy daniel's has wrapped up and then also importantly, it didn't end there. there were a couple of just fact book cortical, boring fact witnesses that came after that today. >> so this is in my opinion, this is the michael cohen versus donald trump show. and that's where the de is going to tie this entire case

together because michael cohen is going to be the witness who establishes the alleged deal or the scheme with donald trump. and so far, all these witnesses, including stormy daniels, her testimony wasn't that necessary to make the case. the person who so far has really made the case for the prosecution was hope hicks. when she revealed at the end of her testimony that the following year donald trump had come to in 2018, actually, and said he knew about the deal with michael cohen because donald trump's whole defense and his press statements are all trying to distance himself from having to do anything with this. i have to point something out that happened way at the beginning of the case that no one has really mentioned, which was donald while trump foreshadowing exactly what he would say if he got on the stand. and he said it was about i think it was the day that david pecker had begun his testimony. so it was either day one or day two.

>> and he had come out and it was during one of those alleged gag order violations, and he was making fun of michael cohen and he said michael cohen is a terrible lawyer, but michael cohen is a lawyer and all that happened here is michael cohen, a lawyer submitted an invoice. >> they they put it on the books. they presumably meaning his employees at the trump organization and this is what they're indicting before they put it on books. so i think donald trump was basically signaling and he was frustrated that he has paid his he's listening to witnesses testify against him. he wasn't quite used to the process yet that the prosecution goes first and he does not get to speak unless he chooses to take the stand. >> but. he was signaling like, i took away. >> i had nothing to do with this. they submitted a receipt to my business and i signed off on it. and the prosecution has done a really good job with these facts that don't seem that important right now about trump's methodology and his business. i signed book right?

yeah. breathing from his books his own words against him. >> i sign every checks. yes. i check every invoice because i don't want to get ripped off. and on an eye for an eye, a tooth for i go after people who go after me. >> and that's why madeline was such an important witness today. even though she's a super sympathetic witness to donald trump, she really corroborated that may in fact what does that donald trump understands everything that's going on in his business, even when he was in the white house, he wanted to know everything including the cost of the tiffany picture frame that i presume he could afford, but may or may not have wanted to pay for a while. he was in the white house he was signing off on $6,000 and fees to a country club that he wasn't going to use it for when he's a billionaire is supposed to be one of the government literally, if you know, somebody asking me to sign off on 30 $0.01 check. that is not so revealing about using you have the boring witnesses, using trump's it's words against him looking today, for example, trump's that i want

to be able to speak out. i want a better respond to stormy daniel's. i want to be free to this gag order and the judge's response, the judge said, well, we know what you've said in your books, you attack people for the good of your business. we know you are techniques and we're, we're reading that from his own books against it struck i was you could say, the point point about michael cohen. he he is the star witness to this prosecution. they are relying on michael cohen to establish so much about the elements of what they need to prove to make this case and you to have the whole picks point or the or madeline point and some of the small things that we can talk about tonight because we don't have michael cohen, cohen's testimony yet. i mean, really, it comes down to michael cohen to establish a lot of what is a difficult to prove crime no matter what michael cohen lins. so if you're the prosecution, you're going to have to go element by element and you're going to have to also be establishing intent and you're going to have to go further. remember to our conversation in the last block, not to rehash all of it here

about the pursuit of another crime. and then the cross-examination the fact that michael cohen is a convicted perjure is going to be something that is going to result in a hit on his credibility that if you're a juror listening to it, you might decide when a testimony is over. yeah. maybe they established this or that i think but maybe this star witness isn't somebody who i can believe because he's already been convicted. he's lost his law license. he went to prison because of what's happened in the past of him lying to others. so i think that there's for the prosecution and the defense, it's something that when both sides get their turn at it. i mean, this is a big uphill battle. >> was like, let me let you in. okay. so let me say something very important. i think the fact that michael cohen is the star witnesses is going to make a break, is a farce. i said it's a farce. here's why the prosecution has done everything and anything to make him as

irrelevant as possible. what do i mean, the witnesses that have testified of essentially corroborated everything he's going to say with respect to creating this entire deal, with regard to catch and kill with regard to the impetus of why it was necessary following the access hollywood, we don't need another bad story coming out with respect to these invoices and ledgers and checks with regard to donald trump signing it in a sharpie with regard to checks being sent to the white house, at being sent back, what am i saying? yes, people want to hear from michael cohen, but the prosecution has done everything they could with regard to establishing the elements of the crime through every other witness to eliminate the jury to eliminate and nullify the argument that he's a victim felon. he lie before congress. you can't trust me. you know what, ladies and gentlemen, you don't have to trust michael cohen. and here's why, because mr. pecker got on the stand and he talked to you about catch and kill because hope hicks got on the stand and she spoke about the issues with respect

to what was happening in the campaign and why they'd want to kill the story because the bookkeeper talk to you about how he micromanagers things. he signs these checks, et cetera. they're going to that is the prosecution and closing argument. say don't believe the hype about michael cohen being a criminal. it doesn't matter because everybody else corroborates him so if he's lying when i say something also that i you know, i haven't heard talked about the two young women who worked for trump who have some loyalty towards him still who are definitely sympathetic towards him, hope hicks and madeline, who's last name one of us can remember. ended up crying on the stand. >> well, i can tell you why they were crying because they know they're going to say something that's going to incriminate or make donald trump look that and that is a very scary thing. i was on his tv show. if you don't want to cross donald trump it's

frightening. and if people die in that room, but that's my assumption of why they're crying. >> i marry that these two women are feel bad a crime because they think that they are saying the truth and in saying the truth, they're proving the prosecutor is going under to harm. >> it says such an under appreciated point. i think there's been a lot of focus about how well they present, how genuine they are about their love for trump. but the tears the dow the jury reads, the tears is going to be critically important. >> i mean, i think there are tiers of fear, but i want to get back to you no shrinking violet is no marshmallow, them, but i have to say something about michael cohen. >> i don't agree with you, joey, because i think we're underestimating the defense here and there was some earlier testimony that michael cohen, when he was trying to negotiate these deals. i think even the stormy daniels deal with keith davidson, stormy daniels attorney, and even david pecker at one point, he said, i don't have authority to pay for these

things. my boss is on the campaign trail. he's in different states and i i have to get back with you on the money and there was sort of this implication that trump didn't want to pay. so michael cohen was trying to delay after the election, but don't a possibility that the defense could come back and say again, donald trump distance and hint distancing himself from the alleged scheme with michael cohen, which is what the july and crime is about. it's the act of michael cohen and donald trump, not the the karen mcdougal story. it's the act of buying allegedly stormy daniels story. so michael cohen, they can come back and say, michael cohen went rogue on this. and then this one zone and i don't have knowledge. assign the jackpot, but i didn't know very craig yet. there's a meeting with michael cohen and donald trump in the white house. >> and yet subsequent to that, there's a sharpie pen where he has checks that he's reimbursing michael cohen on a deal. he knows nothing about. all right. >> i need to hear from michael cohen about what happened in the back. yes. we will be back

at it a little bit later in the show. everyone standby from us, we're turning next to the fallout from president biden's warning, the heel hold back on weapons from israel for israel over a rafah invasion, israel's prime minister is already responded they will discuss that next for psoriasis. >> then psoriatic arthritis there was really holding me back, standing up even walking was tough fight joints hurt. i was afraid things we're going to get worse it was always hiding and that's just not me not being there for my family that hurt i had to do something. i started because antics i'm feeling good. >> march because it takes helps

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capitol hill. listen joe biden object, objectively, favors a hamas victory over israel. it's just that simple. >> this is an existential threat for the people of israel. the united states need to have their back have their back. the american people have their back. >> i just want to emphasize one thing. >> this is all about president biden and lloyd austin trying to take over the war from israel i got one message for israel don't let them do it already. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is responding and he is striking a defiant tone a lot more. >> if we need to stand alone, we will stand alone. i've said that if necessary. we will fight with our fingernails 20 me now is former lieutenant governor for the state of new york, betsy mccoy, also with us

democratic new york state representatives or on mum dom madani zora. >> and i want to start with you because i know that you are in tune with the where the left is on this issue. president trump weighed in on truth, social saying, taking the side of these terrorists, like he has sided with the radical mobs, taking over the college campuses, is what he is saying. joe biden is doing but how is actually this being seen by the people who've been pushing for president biden to do something. >> this is being seen as the president taking a step towards what most americans want. we see in poll after poll that a majority of americans want to see an immediate ceasefire. and this conditioning military shipments to israel is one step towards it however, what americans want to see is the president go all the way and honoring his previous pledge because the israeli military, for all intensive purposes, is already invading rafah. we have every major aid organization on the ground saying israeli military tanks are circling

hospitals. they've killed 60 palestinians in the last 24 hours, 80,000 have been displaced just since monday i just before i let you in, betsy the fact that president biden made this threat and it has not actually changed the reality on the ground, doesn't that under cut this idea that he can just snapped his fingers and stopped the fighting. i don't think it does because he's paused one single shipment and put two others owed under root. >> but israel has said they don't need anymore shipments to do what they want to do and israel, well, in gaza, i would believe that when we stopped sending the multi thousand pound bombs that they can drop to kill policy so betsy, at the end of the day, this is within president biden's right to do. he's not the first president to condition aid specific arms shipments to israel back in 1981 and 1982, ronald reagan did it twice. that's right. it is a wide powers as commander in chief. so those in washington who are talking about impeachment, i would say put that aside. we don't need anymore impeachments but the

fact is that first let me point out that the latest harvard harris poll shows that 80% of americans 80%, a large majority on any issue for particularly on this one 80% of americans do not want a ceasefire until hamas surrenders the hostages and lays down its arms. that's what the poll says. this is a betrayal of of israel a stab in the back and also to the hostages and their families, including five american hostages in emboldens hamas at the nodes go shading table, the bargaining table. we get those hostages back and it also in some on the battlefield. >> but let me just say, it's the hostage families themselves who have the slogan, everyone for everyone they have called for the release of all the hostages in line with the release of palestinian prisoners, as well as those unjustly detained. it is benjamin netanyahu has refused that deal, and the former spokesperson of the hostage families said that this deal was on the table before the invasion of some of the hostages. but i wanted to make

it clear that the american people are not in favor of a surrender to hamas or a ceasefire in until the hostages are returned and hamas is eradicated from rafah. there's still three military battalions of hamas in rafah until they are destroyed. hamas can wage another attack. let me remind everyone watching wide the fighting is going on because on october seventh, hamas broke the ceasefire. they came in, they put babies and ovens. they had gang rapes for women. they brutalized people, they rolled them up and barbed wire and set them on fire. when you talk about standards of war, there has been no atrocity. this great and i got the whole list i obviously the atrocities that occurred on october 7 are critically important, but you said something that i think was also important. >> three battalions left in rafah i'm not understanding the argument that somehow not going into a city with 1.3

million people mostly civilians, is suddenly going to embolden this tiny remnant of hamas. >> it's not a tiny remnant three battalions is not a remnant. >> they have fighting power and they are trying to rebuild their fighting power. >> let's just take a pause and ask ourselves what war is, because we're imposing on israel a standard of warfare that has never existed. when you're just wait one second, sir, on during world war ii when the united states and britain were fighting, germany, fighting hitler, right and they wanted to end the war and free the camps. they bombed dresden. did they evacuated dresden first? i do idea. go ahead. i'll let you do. i'm sure the idea of advocating for another dresden is unfashionable to most people in this country. >> that is the reason why we have international law. and the idea of what war crimes are. we have seen more than 14,000

palestinian children be killed in the last few months. >> and i regret that, but you're advocating for more of it if no, i'm not advocating for more of it. >> when must finish this war often a strong way. and if we do not, do not eradicate hamas within that population, go in and get them out and finish this. it will go on and on and on. on and will invade israel again. they've already said that they will do it at every governor. the condition that the biden ministration said was that israel needs to have a credible plan to keep the civilian safe. and the reason they oppose a rafah invasion is because that plan doesn't exist. so why, why isn't it? in biden's interests to ensure that that happens before a major military operation because he's weakening israel tremendously. all the countries around that area of the world are watching and they see, oh, the united states does not have israel's back now israel cannot be guaranteed the

ammunition it needs. that's a message to run that's a message to every enemy of israel. and by the way every country in the world that is depending on its alliance with america is taking this lesson second time. when, when the united states snot out of afghanistan in the middle of the night without telling pulling its allies. and now this, i'm a little bit confused because the last time we were on the show, you spoke about the importance of law thing on the way we live the last time you were on the show? yeah. spoke about the importance of law and order? yes. president biden has now come out and said that the israeli military is using american weapons to kill palace seen civilians, which is against the law of this country. >> so on one hand, you're telling students to follow the law and on the other hand, you're asking the united states government to break it and i don't understand why not against the law. i clos yes, it says it says that ammunition cannot be provided to out to allies or other countries when the intent when the intent is to kill civilians, but the intent here is not i don't think most people realize that

israel, israel has setup health care tense, food tense all along the evacuation route. the reason there's still so many people in rafah is hamas won't let them leave. now, the reason that ms human reason there are so many people in rafah is because these israeli government told them to go there. lieutenant governor, that is now they have created out and health care tents and full tents. take a look at the pictures. i've never seen before. we're the ads are is providing food, tents, and health care tents for the people at all. these are civilians that we are taught we, these are civilians. we are talking about. i want to emphasize that that's true. the israeli government is fighting hamas. we are talking about the civilian population and that is what has made this whole debate is tricky as it has been i appreciate the two of you coming on having a civil conversation, and we are the friendship between the two of you. >> i do appreciate that we need we need a lot more of that on this topic that seemed mccoy and x4 on mum dom mamdani.

thank you both very much.& up next, the president's gatekeeper in the oval office, madeline western, out we'll return to the stand tomorrow. i'm going to discuss what we can expect from her with my panel. that's welcome. the world of spycraft garage glued to the action let's get down, let's get funky what are you concerned? do communist sympathizer supervisor? >> streaming exclusively on macs who are you? >> i'm in a child less what you really need. >> life is some freakin torque. >> what keeps you going with torque? >> you going what happened to

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i didn't truly believe it i'm evan perez in washington and this is cnn closed captioning brought to you by meso book her firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma call us now donald trump's hush money trial resumes tomorrow morning. >> so what should we expect to

happen in that courtroom next, i had an navarro and brian stelter are back with us. madeline western hout is going to go back to the stand. she is really important witness but as super sympathetic. one to donald trump. i was talking to one of the reporters who was in the courtroom who has been following this all along and he says, we haven't gotten to the sort of the heart of what her testimony is going to be. and we might get there tomorrow if stormy was the emotional climax there is a lot that we need to learn the details about using the sharpie pen, about his de, attention to detail, all of that is going to matter a lot to the jury. >> what about anna michael cohen? i think you both sort of know him to a degree. oh, yeah, we bought only by my thing but haven't we know? >> we probably he did at one point i had forgotten i partner we've forgotten a lot about about the michael cohen and how prosecutors need to handle him on the defense on the witness stand because that's gonna be really critical. they they had some missteps with stormy

foreshore are they going to be able to control their witness this time around i think michael cohen does remorse very well, but he's had a lot of practice now being remorseful about the things that he did with and for donald trump, he's done it in congress. >> he's done it in court. he's served at time. there's nothing like jail to affect people's emotions and demeanor i suspect that michael cohen will be under control. i think he will control himself. i feel like it's gonna be the liar olympics though. >> meaning cohen, unknown liar. donald trump, unknown liar it's going to be chaos some ways. >> i remember the last time i have to cohen, i was on his podcast. he told me if trump wins reelection, he swears on a bible. he was going to move to canada. that's the kind of guy cohen is. he's got a short fuse. he'll say anything. >> brian is everybody who wanted to move to canada by the way, the new spot is portugal was, was, was accused of lying.

we'd have a very long list. portugal is great. but i think cohen is a very, very short fuse. what happened today with stormy daniels, and i think it could also happen with michael cohen. they went after her donald trump's attorney, one after her for being a griffindor which is actually exactly what he is. right? >> oh, you're selling candles. well, what hasn't he sold? trying to make money, stakes. his mother mug shot is ten ftes. i mean, you name bibles for god's sakes he's out there selling it and show oftentimes when you're dealing with these people and you're trying to accuse the witness of being x, y, or z. >> it's a lot of self-reflection on what your actual client, donald trump is. >> and i think that's the same thing that happens with with michael crump is also chomping at the bit to get at these witnesses. his attorneys went to the judge today and said, let him out of his gag order so that he can talk about stormy daniels. and stormy daniels comes out today's testimony

and basically pokes him in the kidneys. essentially, michael cohen also who had tried to back off talking about trump, also talking about this case again, at some point, do you think trump just the lid just comes off the he just erupt. sue me. yeah. >> i think that idea of jail time because actually scary to him. actually a fearful thing i think i ground level. we're talking a lot about womanhood. stormy daniels, what was she thinking? this is about manhood. it's about what it means to be a man who was donald trump trying to be and who is he trying to be now? and how does he want to behave now, we know how he behaved than 2006 according stormy daniels how's it going to behave in the next couple of weeks is going to testify, is you going to speak on his own behalf? >> this is not allowed manhood is about criminal activity that's all i don't think. i don't think the audience care much about the business record well they are getting paid to unless you're getting paid to follow this trial, most