can't get enough of that directionally, correct? >> sorry, i'm going to stick with it this week. i have my own best shot and it's a two parter. >> first, congrats to qarrah, who was honored with the 2024 webby lifetime achievement award, honoring excellence on the internet congratulations. thank you. it's my greatest achievement and i want to congratulate our team for winning a webby for this clip, which went viral from my interview with john but teased on our max show, who's talking, where he demonstrates how music can cross genres well, you know, two blues which just goes to show if you're with giambattista, you're on the right track. >> it was a great conversation. you can catch my entire talk with john on max gang. thank you all for being here. thank you for spending part of your

day with us. we'll see you right back here next week. >> hello everyone and welcome to the amanpour hour. here's where we're headed this week. new us military aid rushing to ukraine to hold putins the foreign minister dmytro kuleba joins us. >> we can, isn't police? digital animal who can sense fear than as american colleges wrestle with political activism and campus safety author salman rushdie, who narrowly survived an assassination attempt it says, free speech is more important than ever. the perpetrator temperature is so high right now there's so much anger that is very hard for anybody to listen to anybody also, this our renowned photographer, platon, on facetime with the people shaping our world from muhammad ali to vladimir putin and then putin turns to me and imperfect

english. >> he says, i love. >> and from my archive is 30 years to the day since nelson mandela cast the historic vote that made him president in south africa's first democratic elections. his trusted former aide tells me how he transformed her life. so you describe yourself as a racist. i mean, that is shocking for me to hear welcome to the program, everyone i'm christiana amanpour in london. hallelujah. >> the word of ukraine's foreign minister as the united states finally passed that long-delayed and much needed aid package for ukraine's fight against russia and it seems divine intervention didn't just strike dmytro kuleba colleagues that the house speaker mike johnson says he prayed for guidance on the issue that and some pretty stiff intelligence briefings from the experts. and president zelenskyy says speed now is of the essence his army chief says

their situation on the eastern front has worsened significantly. while the united states army commander in europe says putins force is now 15% larger than when it invaded two years ago. and here's president biden this package is literally investment, not only in your buret and ukraine security but in europe security and our own security. >> and of course, the sixth month delay has caused countless ukrainian lives and territory. my first guest foreign minister dmytro kuleba, joins me from kyiv, warning thing that the era of peace in europe is over foreign minister, welcome to the program from kyiv. and i just wanted to ask you on this morning, you must feel very relieved, right? it's been six to seven months of waiting anxiously. >> it's good to have american back and it's better when good things happen later than do not

happen at all but i do agree that this package should have been passed much much earlier and thinks could have would turn differently on many accounts but now we are working on preparing ourselves to receive the first aid of package the first package of aid announced by president biden i'll soldiers on the front line are waiting for it. our society received a morale boost and it's also an important message to all our partners and message from washington that the struggle continues to fight for freedom and democracy goes on. >> can i ask you specifically if you can tell me what are the most important things you're waiting for? >> well, when you fight a war, you'll need everything. there is no, no deal detail that you do not need in fighting the war, we need air defense to protect our cities, and we need every artillery, ammunition and

artillery systems to protect our soldiers and deliberate our territories these are the two key elements. what we do not see on this package is a battery of patriots. but we keep working with the us administration on mobilizing more batteries from other countries in short, two, short perspective, let me ask you to react to what senators like j at vance, certain republicans who opposed sending aid to ukraine they basically say, do the math. in other words you can't, it just doesn't add up ukraine needs more soldiers, it needs more material than the us can provide. what's your answer to that? >> it is true that the key to victory of ukraine is a united front of all countries. we saw that in the meantime, while the congress was debating the law, germany was making powerful decisions. other european countries were announcing

important aid packages so united states are not alone in supporting ukraine. in fact, we see that european countries are increasing their support to ukraine. ukraine itself increased its own production of weapons, and we'll continue to ramp up its production in the question to the members of congress that, you, that you refer to? a simple if all of these countries are united around the goal of ukraine's victory maybe it's because they see that this victory is important, is also a matter of their security and prosperity. >> and whatever the price of supporting ukraine today as the price of fixing the world, if russia wins in ukraine will be much, much higher. do you expect a massive russian attempt to take advantage of the window before this aid gets to you well, everyone should, everyone in the world should remember that every delay in

providing a safe sending assistance to ukraine is compensated by the bravery and sacrifice a file soldiers but this is not kind of compensation that you not you personally, but i'll partners should be should be willing us to pay because these are real people and their lives matter and everything we lost in-between last autumn and now is because we didn't have our soldiers did not have enough of weapons they have no shortage of bravery. and the will to sacrifice themselves for their country. >> and now the issue of conscription of lowing the draft age you're trying to get young men back. those who fled, and the the fighting. how is that going? do you expect to have many more people drafted to the front you know, the

parliament passed the law setting. >> in fact, a couple of laws setting up the new framework for conscription in ukraine and army will receive new soldiers and officers to fight because what is it stake here is the survival of phonation. this survival of a sovereign country in 21st century and we know our history those who refused to fight for ukraine with arms, with weapons in their arms in the beginning of the 20th century, when we lost our independence to bolshevik russia we're then became afterwards victims of stalin's repressions of styling genocide against the people who ukrainian people would fell victims of russification of ukraine. we all know what follows when we lose and therefore, we will keep fighting. what we do who need

is our partners to believe firmly believe that ukraine's victory is attainable and second, to have no fear towards putin because putin is a political animal who can sense fear and when he does, he becomes more aggressive if he sees the strands, if you sense the strands, as it was recently demonstrated by, as the one recently demonstrated by the congress he will be forced to step back and finally, i want to ask you whether you notice and plan to take part in a mission to persuade trump. >> let's just say he wins again. we've seen quite a few western leaders have gone to america to meet with him privately. and were told it was to encourage him, to encourage congress to pass this law. and they brought intelligence and all the rest of it. we understand baltic leaders, polish leaders are also trying to pursue swayed trump and trump's allies, that this must continue this aid for ukraine.

and saying, you know, this is also good for america because it creates american jobs. >> are you in a way pleasantly surprised that this congress, there's maga group in congress pass this law, pass this bill i said from the very beginning in an interview to you, by the way when you asked me whether we have planned b if the congress does not pass the law, i said, we don't, we only have planned a and if i'm not mistaken following that interior was heavily criticized for making no plans be but our strategy is always to get the best for ukraine, even when very few believe that we will succeed in the end. so we have planned a the vote, the successful vote in the congress in the anse regarded and there was an enormous amount of effort of many people in many countries behind that behind that result but this is how you win worse

if you have plenty, make no mistake. you will end up with plan b. but this is not what will save ukraine. ukraine will win only if if it focuses together with its partners on plan a. and this is what we will be doing irrespective of the name of the president of the united states or the names of the members of congress of the united states, or any other country in the world foreign minister dmytro kuleba. >> thank you for joining me from kyiv coming up later on the program famed photographer platon on meeting putin at gunpoint and discussing their favorite beatles song. but before that, salmon and rush tells me what he wanted to do immediately after being stabbed and the premonition he had just before in retrospect well to pay attention to the dream really big games travel is

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>> we'll food in the right amount. >> a healthy weight can help dogs live a longer, happier life. >> the farmers dog and makes weight management easy with fresh food. three portion for your dog's needs, it's an idea whose time has come when dehydration gets real nobody a pony, advanced hydration, is it just for kids pedialyte helps you hydrate during recovery the white house correspondents, dinner, live tonight at seven eastern on cnn welcome back to the program, and we turn now to the struggle to balance free speech with safety, which is playing out on college campuses across the united states in other parts of the world, there's a long history of student activism against war in the lest we forget vietnam. now, thousands of students of protesting israel's war on gaza with many facing heavy

handed disciplines, suspension arrest an expulsion, some jewish students meanwhile say criticism of israel is spilling into anti-semitism. >> my next guest knows the importance of free speech better than most. he almost lost his life over it. salman rushdie live with the threat of assassination for years after iran's supreme leader called for his death over the book, the satanic verses then in 2020 to nearly 35 years after it was published, rushdie was repeatedly stabbed as he was about to give a public lecture in new york. he was lucky to escape with his life. and now in a brave defense of free speech he's written about his near death in knife meditation's after an attempted murder, he joined me this week from new york to tell me his book is also about the triumph of love over hate. >> can i just start by asking how you are, how you feeling

i'm okay you know, i mean, i think i'm surprised myself by how well i feel. i think i'm pretty much repaired. thank you. >> someone i find it really interesting because you said you don't believe in miracles and you you also admit that your recovery is miraculous, but also you say you don't believe in premonitions and you did have something that we might call a premonition or a dream just before going to chautauqua, just before going to make this speed, we've asked you to read just a little bit of that prof yeah. >> i had a i had a nightmare two nights before i flew churches. i had a dream about being attacked by a man with a spirit a gladiator in a roman amphitheater there was an audience roaring for blood i was rolling about on the ground trying to escape the gladiators, downward thrusts. and screaming it was not the

first time i'd had such a dream on to earlier occasions as my dream self rolled frantically around, my actual sleeping self also screaming through its body. my body out of bed and i work as i crashed painfully to the bedroom floor so those are those two times this time your wife woke you up and you didn't crash to the floor, but you said to her, i don't want to go out, want to say it gives me chills that yeah, i really i was very spooked by the dream and that's what by initial response was to say, look, i don't want to go, and then i woke up a bit more and i thought really we don't run our lives of the basis of whether we had a bad dream or not. and it's just a dream. and of course, i should go. but in retrospect they've done well to pay attention to the dream. >> someone you talk about the a that is the assailant, the assassin, the asinine i mean, quite early on before you even

recovered you in grappling with whether you should go to see him, confront him, talk to him. understand is motivation yeah that was my first thought was, as i can of journalistic impulse to go and sit in a room with them and say, okay, tell me why you did it. >> and then i read this of samuel beckett, who's also stabbed in paris and in the street by, by a pimp and he actually did go to the court and asked them, why did you do it? and all the man said was, i don't know, sir. i'm sorry. >> nothing. well, that doesn't get you very far, does it? it doesn't explain anything and i thought maybe if i didn't meet this guy, i would get some banality of that kind i didn't think i would get remorse there doesn't seem to be any sign of remorse but i thought i'd get some cliche. and so pointless. i thought actually i would do better to use the skill i've got of imagination and

storytelling to try and imagine myself into his head. and work out to get a coherent portrait of somebody who could have done this is really interesting that chapter and i want to ask you, because i think we know, i think we know because this this the assailant gave an interview to one of the new york tabloids that he didn't read the satanic verses. >> he didn't sound like he had any motivation for this yeah. i mean, he didn't he said he'd read two pages of something. i'd written it, didn't say what the read seen a couple of youtube videos and that was enough for him to decide to commit murder. it's a ivan it shows me that indoctrination can be a very powerful force. there are people like i suspect this young man of being who kind of need to be led, who need to be given a direction in life because they don't feel that they have it.

>> and what about in new so where you live, you can see campuses roiling. you can see it's spreading across the united states. the issue of free speech is being really challenged. what do you make of students today getting themselves into this kind of situation? >> well students have students demonstrated against the vietnam war, which is not the first time and of course, students should have the right of protest and historically often have. and that's, it's right. what's happening is that very often that right of protest is spilling over into menacing remarks and behavior. and so a lot of jewish students feel unsafe on campus it gives the administrators and almost impossible job that whatever they do is wrong really? and the temperature, temperature is so high right now, is so much anger that is very hard for anybody to listen to anybody and it's a very dark time for

the academy, i think in america universities across the country are wrestling with this and many of them not doing a perfect job. >> a fascinating conversation and you can watch the entire talk with salman rushdie online at amanpour.com, coming up on the program from my archive as south africa celebrates 30 years of democracy, nelson mandela's private the secretary told me how he changed her life. the life of a racist but first how the man behind the camera captures the faces shaped being our world. this is the face power in russia every piece of evidence tells a story. >> how it really happened jesse l margin tomorrow at nine on

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natasha bertrand at the pentagon and this is cnn closed captioning is brought to you by hands-free skechers. >> bob's for dogs, footwear. >> it's never been easier to put on your shoes and help pets and neat at the same time with new hands-free skechers, bob's for dog sports, slip and the slip go and they've already helped save over 2 million pets welcome back to the program. >> my next guest is one of the world's best-known photographers whose portrait's have defined the pages of time, rolling stone, the new yorker he goes simply by one name plot on and for more than two decades, he's been up close and personal with the most influential figures of our era from muhammad ali to vladimir putin. his new book, the defenders, is about giving a voice to real people fighting back and standing up for human rights and that is the subject of my letter from london this week, platon, welcome to the program.

>> good to be here. your latest book is called defenders. >> what do you mean by that title? >> well, it's it's a superhero title but the people who are defenders of human rights due are ordinary people, but they do extraordinary things. and we often think of human rights defenders and activists we always talk about them in a certain way. many of them have been victimized by history and by society and faced horrendous hardships but they've, with all those challenges they do extraordinary things so i thought we should change, start to change the narrative and see them as a new set of cultural heroes. >> you like very much your image of mohamed ali, who's by no means an ordinary person but he captured the imagination of ordinary people all over the world. so explain to me this

picture, how did this come about he was very frail when i took this. >> i believe it's one of his last maybe even the last big photo shoot he did and he'd lost control of his once most powerful arms and fists because of the parkinson yeah. >> but when he felt need draped the american flag over his shoulders, you can just see a bit of it here he was compelled to hold up his hands in that defiant pose. >> and it was really moving his his wife actually started to cry a little bit and he was trembling, trying to keep his hands in that position. so i said to him mohammad you are the greatest please teach me to be great how can my generation be as great as your generation had to be during the civil rights era in america. so i had to get close to him and he whispered in my ear and he said, i have a confession to make. i said, what is it? >> and he said i wasn't as great as i said, i was oh, my goodness, i freaked out.

>> and that's the biggest confession i ever heard in my life. and i said the whole world knows you as our lead, the greatest, but then he said you misunderstand me. i'll tell you what was grea wasn't me. it was that people saw themselves in my struggle. and my story. >> let's go out to the pictures of world leaders. so this was for the time magazine cover person of the year of 2008 it is an extraordinary picture of him. you have two pictures. one is just a face on. i chose this one. everything you want to know about putin is summed up in that picture as far as i'm concerned, i mean, he's performing power exactly. i it's a whole process of intimidation when you come into contact with palette. i was told that it should be in the halls of the kremlin and i was picked up, driven to the gates by a former kgb bmw. and then you get to the gates and the passed turns goes out of moscow

into a dark, bleak, gothic forest. it's really intimidating. >> you have no idea what's going on. >> and i got to the most scary building i've ever seen. it was his private residence, his dasha in the middle of the forest two high security walls, snipers everywhere. i'm lead into the building at gunpoint and literally, yeah. and then the entourage comes in and he he has to translators who whisper into his ear whole team of advisors and a gang of body guards and i nervously said, mr. president, before we capture a moment of history i have a question to ask you. i said i was brought up by my mom and dad listening to the beatles. and i'd like to know if you ever listened to the beatles and in russian, he orders the two translators and all his advisers out of the room immediately. the body guards stay and then putin

turns to me and imperfect english. he says i love the beaker so i said, i didn't know you spoke english. he said i speak perfect english so i said, who is your favorite beak? he said paul i said interesting. what's your favorite song? and i said, is it back in the ussr? and then he said, no, my favorite song is yesterday. >> that is before i think he made his big speech, warning the west that it wouldn't tolerate any expansion before he invaded and annexed crimea before, obviously the second full-scale invasion and before he became a prior. >> and in those intervening years, you also took pictures of the opposition, notably riot so let's talk about this. everyone probably knows them like this yeah hardcore, feminist, punk rock group who

speak truth to power against putin successive nationalism but what happens if you remove those aggressive masks? >> you see something different and this is nadia and marsha after they were released from prison, they paid a heavy price for their support of women's rights and lgbtq rights in their country amazing experiences. >> and when we come back, the story behind platens photo shoot it trump tower in retrospect, a premonition of trump's presidency. then later so in hour, 30 years of democracy in south africa, my conversation with nelson mandela's closest aide, what did he see in this white young woman? who had this apartheid history and it was a lowly type is how it really happens to all with now all right. cnn luck and good guys moms glasses from

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i'll take that in sure. >> not to protein 30 grams, protein one prim sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals, and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic up bring really big games. this series like the last travelers magic funder hello again, celtics me. coverage begins today at 12:30. nba playoffs presented by google pixel. we'll round one coverage presented by nerd wallet on tnt welcome back, to the. program. >> there a leaders sometimes who will define history for better or worse, donald trump, benjamin netanyahu, vladimir putin plot has photographed all three. >> in fact, he's photographed more than 40 world leaders, including three us presidents but it was trump who surprised him the most. this is a man is being president who wants to be president again, donald trump, who is under criminal trial as we speak what was that set up? what were you saying i'm his way at the back of the frame.

this is i've been told one of his favorite rooms, it's the boardroom in trump tower where everyone would get fired in his tv show this is where he exercised power as a rehearsal. >> i think for the presidency, i remember saying to him, donald, let's just be human. when was this? this is before he was president, before, even though the election campaign has properly and i said, let's be human together. i said, we've all followed your career. >> no one can doubt it's an extraordinary career path you've had. >> but there's always something about you there's always an air of tension and controversy about things you say and do in public and i'm sure it's intentional on your part but it feels to me as if you're in the middle of an emotional store. and i said, i can't live with that anxiety all the time as a fellow human being, i'd like to know how

you weather the storm he called me. he looked at me and he said, i am the storm. >> even then i had those words ringing out in my brain through the election campaign, through his presidency, through his post-presidency. >> and now we're in another cycle again and i keep thinking to myself, there's only one person who can navigate perfectly through the storm. and that's the creator of the storm so these people are very powerful for and are much smarter than we make them out to be. >> and they are not to be underestimated. and i think we always seem to do that he's smart. >> one of the big issues that he brought to the fore, others have been he really made it a campaign issue. is immigration here's a picture of a mother carrying a picture of a boy. and this is about immigration across the southern border. tell me what this is this is a

difficult story her name is firmino. >> she's from guatemala, country ravaged by conflict, abject poverty corruption via gang violence her parents were killed grandparents were killed she had trouble feeding her son, even who was i think, eight years old at the time. his name was omar. so she made the most difficult decision or mother could make which is to leave your son behind with family members, cross over borders into the dangerous, deadly soren and desert because we also have a big picture of the mortgage in tucson. >> this is actually sorry. this is the morgue? yes. and it was actually her son she found this out the de i was to photograph so i did what my heart told me to do. i put down my canva and i gave her a hug christiane, i

still remember the feeling of her pain going through my body like vibrations and eventually after a few seconds, she pushes me away she was making the sound of a wounded animal and she grabs the picture of her son. that's framed and she says, take my picture now. i want the world to see my pain so i took this picture. and of course a picture. these pictures do tell 1,000 words. and you can watch are longer conversation on my weekday show next week and as always, you can find all of my interviews online at amanpour.com up next from my archive 30 years since nelson mandela's historic election when his private secretary tells me how he changed everything including our own life so you describe yourself as a racist. i mean, that is shocking for me to hear

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7909 a month golf, but need 775, 383882, or visit home served.com the white house correspondents dinner, live tonight at seven eastern on cnn i speak to you know a man of seven to five. >> i feel like a pie of 60 the indomitable nelson mandela on election day, april 19, 9041 month before he became south africa's first democratically elected president and finally

ended the white supremacist apartheid system. >> it is inauguration speech mandela, who died in 2013, had a message of reconciliation that inspired the whole world. >> never never never again, shalit that this gluteal were like cain experience the oppression of one by another son never set on so glorious human achievement let food on brain plus africa. all right, thank and from my archive this week, 30 years to this very day mandela cost his first ever vote. >> i revisit an inspirational conversation with his private secretary i'm close aide, zelda la who went from self-described racist to seeing the lights. zelda lagrange,

welcome to the program. thank you. >> how did a young girl like yourself, a whiter than white africana? >> who believed in apartheid, end up working for the world's foremost black leader. well, you can add racist two that i was a full-on racist by the time i started working for him. and which makes this so unlikely to happen. i applied for a job in his office as president, but working for you who was made implied dana at the time. and she just desperately needed a type person i happen to be busy with the interview on that particularly di another position in the president's office when she came in and she said, i need someone right now. >> so you describe yourself as a racist. i mean, that is shocking for me to hear. i mean, i suppose i should expect it that was the system that you grew up under. it was a racist system. >> when nelson mandela was coming out of prison, what was the reaction in your household? my father came outside. i was swimming in the pool and that

day in february and he came outside and he said to me, we are in trouble. and i said, what are you talking about? and he said the terrorist is being released and i see it use that. and he said nelson mandela, and i continued swimming. it didn't affect my life. i didn't know he was my father apparently new movie was but to me, that was that was the totality of my understanding of what was happening in south africa. i just heard this man's name and really the system, the system influenced as we live apart that happily. and when i set you have i was racist. you have to reconcile with your parts. you have to admit these things to be able to change, to make a decision to change. so now, looking back, if you asked me at the age of 23, i would probably have denied being a racist. now, it's it's easier because you can recognize the change in yourself do so happily believed in our party. they, you even voted no in the referendum to end apartheid yes. >> what was it like then when you first met this man nelson mandela?

>> well, that was really the turning point in my life when i started asking this question, he was kind, he smiled, he extended his hand and he spoke to me in my own language is back to me in afrikaans. and that is the thing you expect a vein because i was brought up to fear this man that just destroyed my defenses immediately and i broke down and i was crying and he said to me, nana, now you overreacting and if appraise it tells you over-reacting, you pull yourself together very quickly and which made me really ask but is this man really something to be terrified of? easier person, easy. the person that i was brought up to believe or that i heard about, what did he see in you? i know what you saw in him and how you change, but what did he see in this white young woman? who had this apartheid history and who was a lowly type is probably the opportunity for him to mold me festival i'm definitely recognize recognized my commitment and loyalty dedication. that's an those

were paramount and those were paramount and they would definitely need it for the job. the fact that i could dedicate myself 500% do the job is what we're for that position and what he needed and then i would like to think maybe my scenes of humans as well. we shade a very, very similar sense of humor. so i think that all worked well together. >> and we've all heard that he was the only person who could call queen elizabeth the second elizabeth. >> is that right that's right. >> it was fascinating to watch and mrs. michelle, at one point said muddy by uconn, call elizabeth and then muddy-brown, responded and he said, well, she calls me lizard as she calls me now since so i think they recognize each other as unique as human beings. each each other's humanity. and i think the queen in enjoyed that really zelda lagrange recalling mandela's humanity in her book, good morning, mr. mandela today those south africa is on

the cusp of another critical election. >> and mandela's beloved african national congress could lose its majority for the very first time since his own historic win with crime and corruption front and center for voters now when we come back remembering an american giant of journalism, who held hostage for years in the middle east every piece of evidence tells a story. >> how it really happened with jesse. oh, martin tomorrow at nine on cnn i brought in a jew or max protein with 30 grams of protein. >> those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks. here,

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leave you, we want to remember an american journalist who has made to suffer intensely for his craft terry anderson died this week at the age of 76. >> he'd been taken hostage in beirut by hezbollah militants in 19851, while on assignment for the associated press help by his christian faith, he survived nearly seven years in captivity, much of it chained and in solitary confinement. his daughters to lome, was born while he was being held hostage. so the first time they ever met, she was already six years old. they both told me about that extraordinary moment when i spoke to them back in 2016 we flew, to damascus where i immediately fell asleep on a couch in the american embassy and my father woke me up and it was quite a a defining moment in my life. >> it was tremendously joyous moment, but i realized now and i think you can see it if you

look at all these pictures carefully. i was in some form of shock it had been hours since i was in a cell chained to the wall and suddenly i'm here in damascus and meeting my daughter and talking to the president and then press conference and the lights it was just it was quite an impact. >> he was the longest held american journalist. he was also a former marine veteran of the vietnam war. and after his release, he taught journalism at a number of universities salami said that her father would want to be remembered for his humanitarian work for many causes, including the protection of journalists and that is all we have time for this week. don't forget, you can find all our shows online as podcast. it's cnn.com slash podcast, and other major platform i'm christiana amanpour in london. thank you for watching and see you again next week