ere you need them. that's wall-to-wall from chavez and huerta to striking janitors in the 90s to today's fast-food workers. californians have led the way. now, $20/hour is here. thanks to governor newsom and leaders in sacramento, we can lift workers out of poverty. stop the race to the bottom in the fast-food industry. and build a california for all of us. thank you governor and our california lawmakers for fighting for what matters. kaitlan collins next 9:00. p.m. here in new york, the eighth day of the trump hush money trial. here are busy and productive one now in the books in this hour verse special primetime continuing coverage, more details from the trial transcripts. we just received. the former president's latest word on whether he'll testify

and what's ahead. while trial resumes next week, kaitlan collins starts off the hour with an exclusive interview. katelyn. yeah. >> anderson, i'm joined here tonight by william barr, who served as the former president attorney general, and who told him that his 2020 allegations of election fraud but we're not true. but as now said, he will support the republican ticket. therefore, donald trump, again, mr. attorney general, it's great to have you. i want to talk to you about how you're going to vote in 2024 in a moment, but putting the merits aside, i like how you're laughing about that. putting emeritus, i'd say no, you don't agree with the merits of the new york hush money case, but you worked for i don't trump. you got to know him. what do you think it's like for him to be in court, being treated like any other criminal defendant having to be there for days a week i think it's real tough on them. >> i think a lot of the country's sympathizers with them. so i think the longer the trial goes on, the more supported gets well, i mean, he has claimed multiple times that this case is being brought essentially by president biden. i mean, you know how this works

and how the breakdown in this works. presidents don't have any role in what a local district attorney, what case they bring that's normally true, and i don't i'm not suggesting biden is involved, but i think what they're saying is is that this former federal official who's gone up to try the case that this somehow shows a link. >> i don't know whether it do you i mean, you worked you were i attorney general prosecutors leave and go work at other places all the time? that's right i think the impetus for this came from the new york prosecutors. >> i think that they're behind and not president biden. i don't know. i don't know. but yeah. but you have no basis to believe that the president would be in charge of an investigation. that's being brought by the manhattan district. i don't know. >> i don't think he he's in charge of plus two geisha, but politics, this is a political case. >> your predecessor was brought up at the trial, jeff sessions because david pecker, this national enquirer tabloid king, he got concerned at one point when he got a letter from the

fec and he called michael cohen, then trump's personal attorney to voice concern about that. michael cohen and told him not to worry because jeff sessions is the attorney general and donald trump has him in his pocket did trump expect his ag to go easy on his friends i don't know. i don't know what to expect it what was your experience? >> my experience was by the time i came in, he did not he did not push me to do one thing or another on these criminal cases. now we tweeted and made his public views on things known. but he never talked to me about them directly, so he did not have you in his pocket? he would argue it's not a question of arguing. i did what i thought was right and you never felt any direct pressure from him on what investigations the doj you did not directly pressure maybe as i say, he was out there tweeting and doing things that were embarrassing and made it hard for me to run department that sounds like pressure wasn't pressure. it was just i mean, for example, i

had decided that we were going to not agree to a sentence on stone that was three times longer than normal, and i'd already decided that. >> and then he was tweeting about stone. so and just made it harder to make the decision because it looked like you were acting on roger stone's sentence would they were just talking about is this gag order and the alleged violations from the prosecutors here, they say it's about 14. it's pretty clear if you read the gag order and then you look at what trump has been saying and posting about witnesses and even comment getting on the jury here what does a judge due to deter him defines work. i mean, what what do you believe that judge has options are here well, i personally think it the gag order could be two broad here and and but i think trump's and i've said this before. i think trump basically has the kind of personality that he's always testing the limit. he's always going further and further. and he's

usually up against the lines. so that's what gets him in trouble, and that's what creates all these cases. like we're seeing now in the supreme court, very fundamental case is about are constant the tuition generally because of excess but do you think there's anything to his testing that i mean, how does a judge stop that? i don't know. >> you mentioned the supreme court and those very important oral arguments that happened yesterday. it was really fascinating to listen to them. but at one point, his attorneys did concede that some of what jack smith has alleged and his indictment our private x and they did concede private acts can be prosecuted. and your view, does that mean that this case can move forward, at least in part no, i don't think the case can move forward. >> in part. i think that if smith thinks he can try the case entirely and establish criminal liability just on the basis of private acts he could.

but if he if he requires some official acts, then he has a problem. i think the problem here is that the government smith sort of very, you know, he, he had this broad position that there was no immunity for official acts and that's the basis on which it has gone up to the supreme court in both sides, you're arguing this of abstract general idea. there's no immunity. >> and then trump's people make it seem like there's immunity for everything. >> even things that are not official acts like just if you use the military to do something somehow your immune because the instrumentality you use is federal stage a coup that's ridiculous. it's ridiculous because the question is, is this something you are to do and have the duty to do? in execute the law. and so forth. and the answer obviously is not the president does not have the authority to wage a coup against the constitution of the united states. he doesn't have authority to kill

enemies. i mean, to kill rivals and so forth. those are obviously acts that are not authorized, are not required for him to do his jar. >> so why are they why do you think they're arguing this? because they're doubling down. it was first the seal team six can assassinate a political rival. yesterday, it was using the military to stage a coup. they said it would depend on the circumstances, whether it counted as an official act. >> but i don't know why they've taken those positions. i think the issue is whether or not the president is carrying out one of his duties and two and and on the other hand, the extreme position taken by the government seems to be that you can be doing an official thing like firing the fbi director or something like that, something clearly within your discretion and yet you can be prosecuted for a crime depending on a prosecutor saying, well, you did it for an illegitimate purpose. that would just open pandora's box. so well, i didn't hear the pro i didn't hear the attorney for the federal government arguing that, but what i did here, trump's attorneys arguing and

this is something that you know well about. it's trump's effort to install jeffrey clark as the acting attorney general of the united states. and the point for why he wanted to do that was not just picking who thought should be running the justice department after you left, it was because jeffrey clark was going to use the power of the federal government to pressure georgia lawmakers to overturn their legitimate results. i mean, is that an official act of the president of the united states? >> well, that's going to be in that gray zone that they're going to have to sort out. and that's why i feel it's going to have to go back to the district court was this was this the president's seeing that the laws were faithfully executed? or was this a candidate trying to bully and press a state into changing its vote when he knew that the vote had been against them well, you write asked to be sorted out. >> you were there. which one do you believe it is? >> i'm not going to you know, i'd have to see all the evidence and see the case litigated. >> you're, won a few people. i mean, you were there up front and close and personal, was he

bullying people and trying to get them to carry out his will? his personal will to stay in office or was he carrying out election integrity and making sure that the united states has fair election. >> i wasn't happy with the way he behaves after the election, but whether it was a crime has a different issue and that requires the government to have articulate the basis of the crime and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt some of these acts or gray acts, some of these it's difficult to say whether he was acting as a candidate or as the top law enforcement officer. but which ones do you think are great because we you and i spoke right when this indictment came out and you thought it was a pretty good indictment, a pretty solid and doug meant was i believe the word you i said was not not an abuse that they had a coherent siri. >> i said i didn't feel it was compelling, but it was coherent. i think the things that were that i think are we're were private where the recruitment of the alternative slates and things like that that were to make clearly as a

candidate. but where you get into the gray zone is where he has an argument that, hey, i'm the president. i think this election was stolen. i am trying to say that the laws are faithfully executed get it and there has to be some precision as to what exact where exactly he crossed the line. >> so when his attorney, who was seated right here last night was arguing that the fake slates of electors do constitute an official luck. you disagree with that i don't think they do i think he was doing that as a candidate. >> i don't see why it's part of the president's official duties to recruit alternative slates to support him as a candidate. that seems to me be not an official act. >> when you see his attorneys kind of brazenly arguing about a military coup, could be an official act that ordering seal team six to assassinate a political rival could be an official act did those arguments undermine the integrity of the justice system

under my the case because they were stupid examples in my opinion so for example when president obama sent a drone strike overseas and killed an american who was apparently in a terrorist complex that was legitimate. >> that was the president using his national security powers that was within the scope of his responsibilities but that doesn't mean a president gets the shoe drones at domestic enemies to eliminate them. just because they're military equipment, they become an official act president doesn't have the power to go around killing americans at will i hear from a lot of republicans who defend trump saying, well that's a hypothetical, and that's ridiculous. >> but alyssa farah griffin, who was trump's communications director posted yesterday and said that you are present at a moment when trump suggested executing the person who leaked information that he went to the white house bunker when those george floyd protests were happening outside the white house do you remember that i

remember and being very mad about that, i actually don't remember him saying executing, but i wouldn't dispute it i mean, it doesn't sound the president would lose his temper and say things like that. >> i doubt it would have actually carried it out. i don't know. >> but he would say that on other occasions you said the president had i think people sometimes took them too literally and he would say things like similar to that in occasions to blow off steam. but i wouldn't take them literally every time he did it why not because at the end of the de wouldn't be carried out and you could talk sense just because it's not carried out and you could talk since into doesn't that still mean that the threat is there? >> no. i mean, i think i don't think the threat is there. i can i the thing that i worry about, president trump is not that he's going to become an autocrat and do those kinds of things why not? because i don't think he would but at

the end of the day, what's the basis for that? that that understanding that you have isn't just your own hunch. >> that's my feeling. having worked for him in seeing him in action, i don't think he would actually go and kill political rivals and things like that. >> if the january 6 case, the election interference case, doesn't move forward before the election. is that a mistake in your view if it doesn't move forward? now, i mean, i've said earlier on, i would have liked to see that tried before the election, but i think it's gotten too late. but you were talking about jack smith, what he charged, isn't some part that the responsibility of the supreme court that they could have heard these arguments back in december. they chose not to. they could rule sooner. they may not rule until june. i mean, they have a role in this as well. >> no, i think it was it was teed up for them and they acted very quickly to actually take the case quickly and i think it hasn't been well prepared. i think that the circuit court didn't do its job. it should have sent it back for a full record. and i think the supreme

court is doing the best they can under these circumstances. >> attorney general, bill barr, i've a few more questions for you, so please stick around. we're going to take a quick commercial break and we'll be back i can just a moment with a lot more, including what your former boss has been saying about you, right after a quick break life is better with the credit god's on your side. rewards once available to the view, are now accessible to the many credit one bank get cashback over the lids, large transfer your ira or your old 401 k to robert. goodbye. april 30th. and we'll give you 3% boost with the biggest match of any ira on the market. robin hood gold gets you the most 40 now at t professionally installs google nest products cool you're all set are in the system we should go with the most trusted name and home security as the intelligence of

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to 369369. today i'm su serfaty in washington and this is cnn we're back now talking with former trump attorney general, bill barr and great to have you here last time you and i spoke, we had drawn to show you told me that you had jumped off the bridge when it came to it on who you were going to support in the 2024 election? it appears so you have jumped off that bridge because you said recently you are going to vote for the republican ticket come november, which means you're going to vote for donald trump i said that's what i plan to do. >> at this stage. >> you're saying you could change your mind. maybe. >> i'm not going to vote for biden. and this is a wild time. who knows what? it's gonna happen, seven months, but i expect as between trump and biden, there's no question in my mind. >> so you're kinda suggesting maybe donald trump may not be the republican nominee or biden may not be there, a democrat or for another democrat if a different democrat was it's hard to imagine that this

party, that progressive democratic party would nominate someone i would support. >> yeah, i know you disagree with them, but i had to ask you about something that trump posted what you're this week because he responded in response to you saying you'd vote for the republican ticket? wow, former ag bill barr who led a lot of great people down by not investigating voter fraud. and our country has just endorsed me for president, despite the fact that i call him, called him week slow moving, lethargic, got less and lazy based on the fact that i greatly appreciate his wholehearted endorsement. i am removing the word lethargic from my statement. thank you. >> bill yeah classic trump what's the question what's your response? my respect. well, i mean, obviously, what i said was that i have a very disappointed that this country is stuck with this choice between two people. i don't think either of them should be president of the united states. but given that binary choice i feel i have to choose trump.

>> but he's mocking you it's not about me i think that i've said this all along. >> if faced with a choice between two people, neither of which i think should be president. i feel it's my duty to pick the person who i think we do the least damage to the country. and i think trump would do less damage than biden. and i think all this stuff about a threat to democracy i think the real threat to democracy is the progressive movement and the biden administration the biden administration, or president biden himself. >> biden's biden's support for the progressive agenda i think a lot of people hear that and the case, that we just talked about that went before the supreme court, essentially and say, how can you see that and say that biden is a greater threat to democracy well, whose square where are we losing our freedoms? we have our freedoms being constrained. it had been constrained by the press

progressive government and democracy, especially from the anglosphere democracies, the five eyes and so forth. the threats never been for autocratic government. on the right. but how specifically is fine and threatening democracy the threat to freedom and democracy has always been on the left. >> that's the collectivist socialist agenda. and that is where we're losing our freedom. parents are losing the freedom to control their children's education and people can't speak their mind without losing their jobs and things like that. >> this is worse than the mccarthy era. >> where's that coming from? it's coming from the right. >> those two things that you just noted there you believe are worse than a president of the united states trying to subvert the will of the people people by overturning the results don't know. >> i think i think a country all the things together like we're not enforcing our borders. we have open borders.

we have lawlessness in our cities we have regulations coming fast and furious. so telling people were kinda stoves, they can use and what kinds of cars they have to drive and eliminating cars and so forth yeah, those are those are the threats to democracy president biden is not in control of what some school boards across the country, using the administration's argument, but these messages at the same major changes are being made in our country without the democratic process and they're being made by bureaucrats in these agencies. yeah. okay. pause. you can not argue that republicans across the country, and i'm doing that as well. my own hometown there's a huge fight at the library over which books kids can read. this is not something that is always to fight. >> do you think there are don't you think there should be some limits on what people are able to read very young age. >> i just think people look at what you're saying and they don't maybe, maybe even republican to have concerns about what's happening with

school boards or the culture. and don't make abortion even don't equate that with january 6 and trump's efforts, when you told him the election was stolen and he's still went out there and said it was stolen and let a lot of people to believe that they don't those things aren't equal. it feels like a false equivalency well, i disagree, i think and i think the country is much more susceptible to losing freedoms by the excesses of the left and they have been steadily and it's clear people lose their jobs. >> kids can't speak out in the classroom. they have to go along with what the professor says in order to get good grades and so forth. it's become like nation being directed by progressive elite women's are also trying to limit what can be said in the classroom, but i do want to ask you because you're a lifelong republican don't think it's a surprise that you don't like those democratic, those issues that a lot of republicans blame on democrats. i think there's a question of how they're the

same, but i'd want you to listen to what another lifelong republican, liz cheney said about your decision to vote for the republican ticket in november given what bill barr has said publicly about trump's lack of fitness for office. i think that his assertion now that he's actually going to support trump brought office is indefensible. and then was frankly frankly disappointing to see she says it's indefensible that's her view. let's review the fact of the matter is as i said all along, i agreed with trump's policies and despite the media, the left-wing media is effort to portrayed as a lawless administration. it wasn't the his policies were sound and they we had victories in courts and we defended them i think that biden is unfit for office. >> so you're basically saying that you are voting because you want the republican policies. >> well, that's certainly part of it. well, i'm glad, but i

also don't want hold on. i'm glad you said that because you told hold her aldo rivera last year, you may want his policies, but trump will not deliver trump policies. he will deliver chaos. >> and if anything lead to a backlash. >> so we'll set his policies much further back than they would otherwise be. your even acknowledging he can't accomplish those republican policies. >> what i was saying was, if you want trump's policies, if you're maga and we want to make america great again the other candidates will be, will be successful at that much more than he will. >> but there's reasons i stated, it's going to be donald trump. >> that's right. >> i'm certainly not going to get anywhere near what i'd like under biden biden is not a great moral exemplar. >> okay and is he following the laws here? >> he is giving away another round of forgiving student loans after he lost it in the supreme court. >> and he thinks i want to get away. any things you can get away with it by getting it out the door before the election. but this is not enforcing the

law and the borders, but those are policy differences that you disagree with trump. i remember also when border numbers were at an all-time high in the spring of 2019. so the idea that border chaos only happens under this administration is inaccurate, but i think people, we had it under control because we had a program approved by the supreme court called remain in mexico that was fully lawful and it's shut down the border. and he came in and lifted weight. >> how can you equate the border is a real issue. i've been to the border. no one's denying that but is that the same thing? is what you said recently, which was that the conduct that was involved with donald trump, you said trying to subvert and prevent the progress the execution of probably the most important process we have, which is the peaceful transfer of power after during election. name one thing that biden has done that's worse than that i think it's followed administration is a disaster for the company is worse than subverting the peaceful transfer of power. who did he succeed? >> only because vice president mike pence de and the way and now the people who are lining up again say that they will not

do what mike pence did. >> look, i was very loud then in saying i thought it was a whole the whole episode was shameful and i'm and i'm very troubled by and that's why it's not an easy decision. but i think when you have a hobson's choice, you have to pick the lesser of two evils. >> you don't see this is the definition of putting party over country no no, not because unfortunately, i'm having this we're in a situation where the policy differences between the two parties are very, very vast. >> there's a huge golf and so in that trump can achieve the policies i think he's gonna have which are harder time achieving them, but you're voting for saturday and i so just to be clear, you're voting for someone who you believe tried to subvert the peaceful transfer of power that can even achieve his own policies that lied about the election even after his attorney general told him that the election wasn't stolen. and as the former chief law enforcement in this country, you're going to vote for someone who is facing 88 criminal counts luck. the ada

criminal counts. a lot of those are in my and i said are ten of them are accurate? >> the answer the question is yes. i'm supporting i'm supporting the republican ticket. >> when you say that donald trump, because you're not saying his name, you just say you're supporting them looking ticket. >> i've said as between biden and trump, i will vote for trump because i believe he will do less damage over the four years. i believe are i believe we're facing the most dangerous situation we've ever faced in the world. a lot of it invited by biden's weakness and have biden out there for the next four years, given all the threats we face including handing the keys to the nuclear weapon to iran with a vice president like kamala harris endangers the country that alone should be reasons them to vote for the republican ticket. but there are a host of other reasons our country is unraveling in many ways, the rule of law is unraveling. >> so you want to put someone back in the position with immense power who you believe

disrespect people would block. well i think he will enforce the law will have greater safety in our cities. >> mr. attorney general, i think a lot of people will have some stark views on that comment. well, if he is reelected, we'll bring you back, mr. attorney general. thank you so much for being here, anderson, back to you in new york. >> caitlin. thank you. all. get everyone's taken. what we just heard and joining us legendary reporter, bestselling author carl bernstein as well, carl i'm looking for the right yiddish word to try and character. i start with. >> we've what we've just heard. washington standards in the age of trump we've just seen bill barr engaging in a kind of craven hypocrisy that is emblematic of him despite his quiet tones of a huge, huge problem which is republican leaders who understand the horror danger of donald trump

and refuse been there to witness it. listen to what he said. he saw the sedition that he called out barr did look at him calling trump before a brazen criminal, and to get up and say, they've donald trump should be the next president of the united states. it's astonishing it's, it's a kind of hypocrisy attorney general dedicated to the rule of law. and then he talks about how trump has no dedication to the rule of law i terms. first of all, trade interview is so revealing and that's not stated. did bar doesn't that doesn't score some points in it but it is a defining document of where we are. and that kind of blind loyalty to a seditious president, as liz cheney pointed out. and really, how much of it is about wanting

to. >> i mean, i don't know what his motivators but how much is about wanting to still be relevant and republican circles to go and lecture circuits two, i can't be in bill bars head intellectually. >> he's an extraordinary person to listen to but is this a case of you'll never work in this town again if you if you don't come out and for donald trump, for president, it is a breakdown of a kind of moral on, and he is a real moralist. if you look at bill barr speech at notre-dame in february 4 years ago, it's an extraordinary document. heron, where do you think? >> i mean, it was just astonishing that he would say that the democrats took away more war riots. he kind of forgot about women and the fact that it's the republicans supreme court that took away a woman's right to choose and

the freedoms that are being taken away from people and he blames, he blamed james crime on. he says, there's lawlessness that's a local issue that has nothing to do with the president of the united states has to do with local police, fbi numbers actually show crimea going crime is exactly. and in the cities, crimes going way down in manhattan, murder is down 28% and shootings are down. 38% just from last year. and date year-to-date. so in addition to the fact that crime is down across the board, it is not something that you normally think the president has anything to do with. i think caitlin is right about the border and other issues, but but i think that it struck me as sort of sad because he he really changed his tune from where he was before. and he's really not thinking about things that really mattered to him before, like law and order,

like the crimes that donald trump is accused of committing think that he witnessed himself, that he talked about himself, and he came up and talked about himself. and now that he's changing his tune if i can pick up on that, the one thing bill barr knows best is law enforcement. he's one of two men ever to be attorney general of the united states twice it is wildly irresponsible for bill barr to stoke this really conspiracy theory that the manhattan da's charge in this case. and look, i've raised questions about the wisdom of bringing it, but to stoke this conspiracy theory, that, that charge is somehow a biden prosecution, he should've said he knows better. he should have said, of course not. it's ridiculous let's the manhattan da has no connection to anything in the federal government is independently elected and what the former attorney general tried to do is cite this one person on the team, matthew colangelo's, who was at doj and went over to the da's office? that is true that that happened, but that is all that there is to this to make that

into some body acting at joe biden's behest, feeds into straight up conspiracy. >> want to bring in kaitlyn? kaitlyn, you pointed out in the interview that plenty of people go from department of justice to two other places yeah. >> and of course, no one knows that better than the former attorney general who's worked at the justice department multiple times. because n is very well versed and how that works. so loosely interviewed bar, i mean, what's your takeaway from this year which by the way, he incredible interview it's remarkable just in the sense of one, this is someone who saw up-close and personal what those several weeks in-between the 2020 election and january 6, were like, obviously bill barr left his job in december, but a lot of it had to do with what trump was saying about the election. >> i'll never forget when bill barr came out and said there was no widespread election fraud and trump kind of lost his mind when he saw that interview from the oval office. and to hear it, here we are four years later hearing bill barr saying that he will vote for donald trump and he

actually said that his name, not just the republican ticket tonight is remarkable. and one thing i think it's a question for me is, is it a permission structure for other republicans who maybe are torn on how to vote are independent voters who say i don't, i'm not sure how i should vote on this. i wasn't comfortable with what trump did and then see even his own attorney general, who has been no short of a critic of him come out and say this and i think really one of the most remarkable, remarkable moments was trump mocked bill barr. he was going to vote for him he posted that his whole team was kind of like laughing about it and saying that it was funny until here bill barr say that he was unbothered by that and that he truly thinks that the biden policies are he can equate them with what happened in that period to try to overturn the legitimate election results. and he said, well, he didn't succeed. your son everyone who is lining up to be donald trump's vice president this time around, at least the ones that i've spoken to have said what mike pence

did that day was wrong and they would not do mike pence did. so it's not a given that what happened on january 6, 2020, what happened again to me, that was one of the most extraordinary moments that down him downplaying efforts to overturn the election by saying to you, did he succeed as though that makes it all right. i mean, hadn't mike pence not done the right thing? i mean, it's it's extraordinary. >> it's the same thing with the execution part that was a part that i couldn't stop because we had a lot more questions to ask him. but alyssa farah griffin said that bill barr and other top cabinet officials were present when donald trump, onetime suggested executing the leaker of whoever said that he went to the bunker when the washington post and cnn he went to the bunker of the white house because they are worried about the protest. and bill barr said he remembered him being irate. he didn't remember that specific call well, for executing him, but he said that it happened at other times where trump was was really angry, but it would die down and no one took it seriously simply because it didn't happen. i mean, it's

just remarkable to hear a top cabinet aid confirmed that, yes. the president of the united states at that time did say things like that, right? >> talks about it more than than once. they've executing and you could almost see during the interview, him sort of realizing, well clearly you're going to pursue this about like, well, what other cases are there and he clearly sort of started to step back from that, but it seemed like it happened more than once i mean, it just speaks to what was happening inside the white house and what that looked like and what became the norm. and then and it's it's remarkable speaks for itself. one thing there's a long list of courageous republicans going back to i stopping joe mccarthy, going back to barry goldwater, going to the white house and saying to richard nixon, we are going to vote to convict you in a senate trial. if you don't resign where has bill barr been to reform this party since he left office on

december 20 at the end of the trump prevalent just an extraordinary interview. thank you so much. >> carl's not going anywhere. >> we're going to get everybody's thoughts and the strength of the de is case against trump so far as they close out the first week of time let's focus termination dry some say we did some say it lies within jennifer's purse. carousel, three liquid ib powder delivers rapid hydration three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink. to help you play defense against the world's coolest because real life is extreme enough would i be rio hygiene now it's sugar-free 20 and for lethal to the permanent gutter solution that protects your home and so many the ways it takes more than one chris to explain it. >> but together, i think we've got this job covered like leaf filter hazard gutters covered, protecting you from getting up

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trust and we'll dot com and make it count cnn saturday morning starting tomorrow at eight on cnn it seems even more likely to down. >> trump will not be taking the stand in its own defense just last week, he insisted he would testify in his new york criminal trial here's the word would not well but in a new interview with newsmax, he was notably non-committal are you more or less likely you think to take the stand in the manhattan case right now, i know well, if it's necessary, legal scholars and experts they're saying what kind of a cases is there is no case and pillars are prize-winning journalist carl bernstein is

with us as well along with my panel. >> there is no scenario or do you believe there's a scenario under which you would actually take the stand? no no. >> with given the allegations and no, not a chance, you know, one of the things about this trial though, is these supposed justice department people who who put the prosecutor here up to this. i do not know a single person in biden white house who doesn't think and hate that this case was brought and thinks there was a great mistake to do so, and that there are these three other cases that have an incredible gravity that go to the heart of trump's seditious conduct and they would much rather this case i've never been been brought. i don't know anybody that thinks that that they will pay like the idea of this case. so interesting, i add and doesn't that just sink the conspiracy right there? >> because if joe biden was so eager to get donald trump at any cost, i mean, jack smith has brought two ways stronger charges. so why would he be bothering with this? think what mole and then anya mental, write consequence to the future

of democracy. and where this country goes, how karen, how soon do you think michael cohen would be called to testify because he you probably don't want to have him be the last witness to you no. >> no, no, no, no, no. >> i think you're going to see some people like you saw this week, pudding documents in and things that you don't really know what the significance is of that is yet like, what was the significance of a certain calendar entry that they put in today for? rhona graff. i know there was they said that that donald trump had lessons on how to use a teleprompter what was that about? i mean, but for some reason that was put in there's little things like that that will be put into evidence, dates, and phone numbers and bank records that i think are a setup four other witnesses, perhaps someone like michael cohen who will then be able to talk about what those, what those mean. but i just wanted to say to mr. bernstein,

i'm one of the people who thinks that it was a good idea to bring this case and that it is an important case. because what is coming out in the evidence especially through david pecker in my view, just from seeing what's coming out is this was really about trying to influence an election just like the other cases. >> more cases fit together that they fit together lining elections, undermining the election only. this is the one he actually succeeded i'm reminded that he won this election in 2016 in three swing states by 80,000 votes and you think storm that's not the fact that a multibillionaire named donald trump who everyone knows about all the women he's been within marla maples and this event, that if it came out, he fooled around with stormy daniels that would assess the election. he thought so he just

protecting, not that it was going to swing the election. if this is 2015, he didn't even think he was going to be present in united states. trust me, i knew people around them nobody was spoke to rudy giuliani the day after but nobody wants the price he wanted to let you money for donald trump. >> but this gets, but there's going to be testimony about furniture he spent what, a hundreds half-a-million dollars. that's like, you know, you give me well, there's going to testimony about the access hollywood tape and the impact the bombshell impact that had on the campaign exactly how that actually changed the desire to silence stormy dan and i think what what what i think what the prosecution is going to try to do. >> and i think today i think you're right. everybody knows now and everyone's desensitized to it. but back in 2015 and 2016, other than the people around him, i think the general public didn't know that. i think this was i think that that this type of the access hollywood tape was very devastating. and i don't think

they wanted look a right-wing conservatives as part of his base. i don't think they wanted it out there that he was cheating on melania with karen mcdougal and then shooting on karen mcdougal and stormy daniels and suki was untested at that point would the evangelicals actually embrace him as they did? and you can make an argument. there were some thought, well, of course, once people know the full details of his life, they're not going to of course, little did we know actually, of course, they actually would embrace him and just ignore it despite all the the stuff they have said. but back in 2015, he was an untested candidate. exactly what your argument would fights against your argument is it's donald trump. we now know and michael cohen, who held this meeting, who called david pecker in for this meeting. it wasn't david pecker coming, as previously thought. >> i'm not saying aminos if they didn't desire gets to know because of course is obvious defenses. i've been

binds stories and controlling my media for my whole life. that's my brand. the difference here is he was running for office and yes, celebrities have gone to the national enquirer. they've bought and suppress bad stories. and that's not a crime if you have the money i need a by silence. by it. the difference in this case and why it was brought, which goes to the heart of what we've been talking about is donald trump was no longer just a celebrity at the time this was happening. he was a celebrity running for office. and i think his attorney, todd blanche is lead counsel, made a mistake in the opening argument because he made a statement to the jury. and i think it's going to come back to bite him later on. he said there's nothing wrong with influencing an election. it's called democracy. and i think the manhattan da's office would begged to differ because when you are influencing an election, a lawfully under new york state law that's called an illegality. and that's what this case is really about. >> but i was agreeing with what carl said in terms of the power

of the case or the ramifications of his actions. in other words, trying to stop the presidential election in january 6 is like a ten on a scale from one to ten pay it off. a prostitute basically, for not talking to her mouth. shubi mouth of about an affair is like a two-and-a-half. so to cause point they're saying the white house isn't happy that this is the case that went first. it's because people like laughing about it compared to, let's stop up the peaceful transfer of power yeah, but at what it's all about in every instance is undermining a free and fair electron i want to thank everybody. we're going to leave the story for a few moments for breaking news out of the midwest video, one of the least of at least 60 tornadoes a touchdown in at least five states today, more on the damage and the forecast next higher shipping breaks may

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more coverage down trump's criminal trial in a moment on cnn. >> but tonight we're also monitoring a severe weather system that's one dozens of violent tornadoes touring the tore across at least five states today. take a look at this video comes to us from a storm chaser that very close to alternate on lincoln, nebraska when tornado in the area rip through a local business was 70 people sheltering inside. authorities say at least three people were injured, at least 60 tornado because they've been reported. when i get to write to cnn meteorologist chad myers with the latest. so what is the damage in nebraska? can it is it is bad. >> anderson, we know that at least for a while this was at 1:52 almost 200 miles per hour as it went from that lincoln picture that you see there to what was almost west of omaha into the omaha suburb of elkhorn. >> and so solidly e of three ef for damage and what the pictures tell a story there was so much damage here with 60 tornadoes. so 66 other than that one right there, it's

incredible. >> were there warnings oh, absolutely. >> there are warnings because you can see it. >> look, this is called we call this a lp low precipitation tornado, which means it's visible. >> there are probably we thousands of videos of this tornado online, which means the weather service saw it too. it wasn't hidden in some cloud or some rain wrap tornado that you don't even know that's there this is the reason that we had the warnings that were so well done. even the police chief of omaha said the warnings that were put out by the weather service today saved lives. we had warnings in time. they knew it was coming. they got into their shelters the safest place in their houses, and without a doubt, the weather service saved many lives when you look at that. >> and where's the severe weather heading next? >> yeah. that's a good question because it's heading to the same spot. this is going to regenerate tomorrow to be in the same areas that we have right now, even des moines right now, i need you to really

pay attention to this. there are still tornado warnings for you. some of these storms are still rotating in the dark at night. storms do lose their power. so that's happening, but not enough power to take away the tornadoes for now, another hour, hour-and-a-half? yes, this will be done. but look at where the tornadoes look at where the storms are. again tomorrow from over oklahoma city of texas, back into the same places that got hit today. exactly what first responders don't need. obviously, what people want to pick up their lives and put their pieces back together so far, anderson, there have been zero reports of fatalities, which to me is amazing. yeah. i mean, there's images are extraordinary. chad, thank you. especially in primetime coverage of the histstoric trun trial continues now next 13 million americans were affected. my identity theft in 2022, and the threats are more than you realize if you're a victim of identity theft lifelong works a fixed it on your behalf backed by the million dollar protection

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