overturn the 2020 election and tensions are boiling over and pro-palestinian protests on campuses all across this country. we've got a live report part tonight, and laura coates live so imagine for the second, if hollywood came up with the plot, i'm going to tell you about the presumptive republican nominee for president of the united states goes on trial in his own hometown, she tried to falsifying business records to cover up some kind of a sex scandal and while he's there at the very same time, his lawyers go before the supreme court tried to get him out of two federal criminal trials that could frankly up and his chances at retaking the white house sound unbelievable. >> well, believe it. it's actually real life because it's exactly what's going to happen just a few hours from now tomorrow morning and trump, he can't be in two places at the same time. in fact, he hasn't even have a choice in the matter of where he gets to be as a criminal defendant. he's got to sit the mat

manhattan courtroom and get a readout of the oral argument in washington, dc, it may be over a lunch break, over a courthouse, deli sandwich. >> the question before the supreme court does a former president have absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for anything related to his actions while in the white house let's put it in plainer language here is a former president above the law. no make no mistake with the supreme court decides may very well-defined this election and don't think donald trump does not know it for a single second. >> that's why he's been on a tear about immunity for months now. >> if a president doesn't have full immunity, you really don't have a president, a president of the united states has to have immunity. if you don't have immunity, you can be black, then you have to have a guaranteed immunity for president, president has seven immunity as a president, you have to have immunity immunity seems to be the operative word here. but the fact is, no matter what the court does now, i mean, donald trump's criminal

election subversion trial, the one from washington dc has already been delayed from its march 4 start date. hell is it'll give me may next week team trump thinks is a win, right there, even if the justices ultimately rule against and because it's all about say it with me for all you brady bunch generation, not marsha. marsha. marsha, but delay, delay. delay with the goal of pushing jack smith's election to firenze case after the election. >> now source close to trump putting it this way, telling rolling stone quote, we've already pulled off the heist. i want to bring in seed legal analyst, and former federal prosecutor, elie honig, law enforcement reporter for the washington post. evelyn barrett. he's also the co-author of the trump trials newsletter and former attorney for donald trump, jim trusty, lead to see you guys all here today. i mean, not a whole lot of legal news to talk about, so i don't know why you're all here right now. i'm were scraping the bottom right. is there a thing happening in the courts maram and of course,

there is a huge de begin with, you, ellie you say of the arguments trump is making for immunity. one is stupid as hell, but the other isn't half bad. >> some good choices well, also one is not really being made donald trump is no longer arguing. i'm automatically immune for everything that happened every second of the four years i was president. he made that earlier, but he has wisely abandon that argument because because it's a loser, because it's ridiculous arguments not going to win. and some of the analysis sort of ends there. but there's more to it now, to the actual tool for arguments he is making. the stupid one to use a technical term is this claim that he has to first be impeached by the house, then convicted by the senate, and only then can be in hebei indicted. that leads you to the ridiculous seal team six hypothetical, the not ridiculous one though, and this is where i think the supreme court is going to be focused tomorrow during the questioning based on the way they phrase the question. is the claim that he is immune to the extent he was acting within the scope of the job. now, i personally don't think he was acting within the scope of the presidency, but i do think there's a good argument that a

federal official who is acting within the scope of his or her job could be criminally immune. >> so this is gonna be a case to have you think about it. it's not going to be perhaps just a one singular their issue. i suspect the supreme court will look at this about what an official akre really is. does it constitute that in this case? and then of course, the issue of immunity, which means that for a hearing on april 25th and the term ending in june, there's no guarantee we actually hear a response before june does that matter in terms of obviously the timing of any trial that comes next? >> well, it does and i bristle a little bit at the idea of delay. delay, delay, yes. >> marsha marsha. marsha, that's a better a better view. >> i remember i remember the football knows are name and my god. okay. okay. got it. so we can talk off-camera about this for a couple of hours. >> no. i mean, look, i think there's a couple of things. one is the immunity, whether you call it absolute are not and that's what they're saying it first, then they've walked right into the seal team trap the realities. it's always been more a little closer to

qualified. it's really talking about the out. what are the outer reaches of official responsibilities and those an inward can be covered by immunity. and that's a reasonable position. and i think one it may well win the day but then you get to this point the crazy thing of all this, you talked about delay is the supreme court could decide, let's tackle on the merits. let's talk about what the outer limits are. establish this immunity and then you'll have follow-up litigation about the specific facts with each judge that the lower court deciding does this fall on this side of the line or that side of the line? and it's a very gray continuum, even if the supreme court establishes this test. now they could weight into the facts, but i don't think they're going to i don't think you've had enough of a record to allow them to do that. so it could be a very good day. we'll know, i think from the questioning, how a lot of the court is leaning. i think they're going to be pretty transparent in terms of of where they're going based on their questioning. but again, i don't i don't think there's any chance this plays out on the speed merchant model

that smith and judge chutkan, we are embracing in the beginning, talking about speedy trial for the public, which is kind of a very good argument yeah. >> it's gonna be interesting, but i think we've got a long way to go before it's all finally settled in that colorado case to bring it back to the idea of what the court might be looking at in that colorado case about trump, whether he's on the ballot or not, they had a record of a lower court trial and they still didn't get the issue of whether they found found to be an insurrectionist or other why is he didn't want to go there. >> they don't want to go there likely here as well. >> but you have a lot of now fodder for your trump trials newsletters, right? >> the longer this might go back down to a lower court, that means the further out any trial might ever be. the question is, is that the win if you're donald trump? >> i think it's certainly his top priority. like if you ranked his what he wants most he wants these trials after the election period and he has in his bond, he has a justification for that. i think

jim is exactly right that i think sometimes the conversation around this immunity argument is that once the supreme court decided, then it's off to the race. this is again, i think in some ways depending on what they say, how they say it, this could actually get more complicated once you have the ruling, because then you have to apply that ruling to the facts of this case and i really think what you're talking about when it comes to this whole immunity argument is that the big gorilla in the room is all the future presidents because we know conservative justices care a lot about presidential power. and i think you saw, even in the appeals court arguments, you saw that republican judges are worried that whatever they say about trump will have a negative impact on the president ten years from now, 20 years now, 30 years from now. and they're worried read about that. so where did they draw the line? and that's why this can get really complicated. >> well, forget the future presidents of la. interesting, i get this question a lot and you have some questions later on. we'll talk about as well, forget the future ones. how about the past presidents? we've had a lot of amicus briefs who've written on these issues. you haven't really

heard from clinton, you haven't heard from obama on this issue civically? i haven't heard from bush on this issue as well why do you think they're not waiting into this in this realm? so you can look at this from either way, if we're talking about what's good policy, what's best to protect the institution of the presidency on the one hand, i think the more obvious argument is, why should anyone be above the law? >> why should anyone get a pass from criminal prosecution? that's the easy one. the one that i think we need to think about though on the other side where we're thinking about the institutional needs of the presidency is we don't want prosecutors lodging indictments against presidents or any other federal official for something they did within the scope of their job. i'll give you an example. let's take the seal team six hypothetical, right? can a president order seal team six to take out one of his opponents? the answer is no. the enter. the smart answer is no, we cannot, because that's outside the scope of the job. but what if some aggressive prosecutor in arizona said, joe biden's border policies are unacceptable and someone crossed over the border and

committed a murder. so i'm going to indict joe biden for manslaughter. now, that would be a prosecutor run a mock that would be crazy, but it happens. i mean, there is a prominent former federal prosecutor who was urging donald trump to be indicted for his tangent for manslaughter, for his handling of covid. that's outrageous. and if some actual prosecutor tried to indict a president for that kind of thing that's the scenario that immunity is designed to protect against and protect the presidency itself will talk to you about the idea of qualify. you mentioned qualified immunity in which the term we often think about, we're talking about a law enforcement official who is engaged in behavior and it's been a very tense thing because of course, you have to have almost precise facts and fact patterns at lineup to say, well, unless they were unnoticed at this precise conduct was a problem. they are not going to be found to be liable for their actions. we are talking about qualified in a different contact. there are contingencies based on what they're actually doing. what do you see as the limits in terms of campaigning and trying to, he says just enforce the

rule of law. i wasn't trying to help my campaign. i was just telling you that as the role of the head of the executive branch i have to enforce the laws. and if i thought one was being broken, that's part of my job. it happened to be the candidate. >> what is the line? yeah. well, we don't know and we may find out. we may not look, they could still come up with some creative standing type ways to actually push back. i mean, there's there's all this full briefing about whether jack smith is a superior officer for an inferior one. so this thing could still take a crazy uterine where they don't actually get to the marriage. but i feel like even the justice roberts is kinda reluctant to have the fingerprints on these giant cases that deal with the elections. these probably going to have to do it in this case. >> i think he wants have fingerprints on it. no it's quite i think i think he's worried about the reputation of the court. >> he's worried about the way people are so freely attacking the courts credibility and legitimacy. you have these veiled threats of maybe we should have 27 justices. and so i think he's very keen to

trying to build coalitions even though it's pretty difficult. stretch with three and six the way they're divided. look at the end of the day. i think they probably get to the merits of it, but they're not going to really set there's no easy way to set a factual line to say this is the outer limit of presidential responsibility. so you're gonna have litigation that may bubble its way all the way back up to the supreme court about if you make a speech on january 6, where you criticize the election process, is that still within those outer limits or is that somehow taboo and none of us really knows, but i think ultimately big picture, i think they're going to be sensitive to the idea that we're descending into a weaponized world where law enforcement's being used to free healy to go after political figures and particularly president trump. so he may not be the most sympathetic figure. you don't have the ex-presidents club rallying behind him, but i think if you look systemically creative prosecution, going after a presidential candidate should be a bad word. and i think they may be sensitive to that. >> well, i'm gonna rename

tomorrow hypothetical thursday so what i think happened, they're going to be everywhere. and if for the love of god, cnn, let's not cover 27 supreme court confirmation hearings that ever come to pass. but i want to turn now to some of our viewers who are calling in with their questions on presidential immunity. i've got, let's see here. let's go to dean from albany, new york. a dean, what's your question? i yeah. >> hi. my question is whether or not we should be asking clarence thomas to recuse himself because of his wife's efforts to overturn the election. >> that's a great question. let me ask you, devlin, what do you say about that? >> well, first of all, shout out to albany. i'm from troy i just want to say i think this is a very popular notion on the left laughed i don't think it has legs. >> i don't think the supreme court was designed to work this way to the idea that the supreme court is trying to get out of some of these fights would rather not be in some of these fights. i get why the situation is fraught, and i get why people are suspicious of thomas, his motives. but i think if you look at all the instances of recusal on courts

and by judges. this doesn't track, this doesn't work. and so i don't think it's likely. i don't think there's a way to make him do it and i don't think he has any interest in doing it. >> yeah. there's no way to make them do it. that's the that's the thing about the old phrase, is good to be the king was good to be adjusted it's not the same criteria for when one has two, although if there was something that was even more precise and there is certainly pressure that can be exerted. but let's talk about that. chris from cedar rapids, iowa. what's your question? >> does the fact that the supreme court is hearing this case mean they see some merit in trump's argument. thank you. >> well, certainly they don't have to take this case, do they? la they've chosen to take this case and wonder if they would. >> i think if they thought that this argument was completely meritless, they would not have taken it. i think they think it has some merit. i think the reason they took it is because it's such a big important unresolved issue. and that's what the supreme court's four. there was a debate. i mean smith was sort of all over the map on this because remember after the district court, the

trial court, jack smith said, hey, supreme court, it is urgent that you take this case only you only you can fully decide this. it's such an important issue. supreme court said now you're gonna go through the normal appellate channels here, went to the court of appeals, jack smith winds, and then he says, don't take supreme court held, take it. no, no, no, no. and of course they're going to take it because it's a huge issue of constitutional law with no precedent but don't you think that also means that they don't like some significant number of the justices don't like something about how the appeals court landed on this. >> i keep thinking. they took it because there's something in that ruling that they're not comfortable yeah. >> i understand. i think that's it for the audience. the lower court ruling they could have chosen not to have taken up the case and the lower court ruling would have stood that would have been the final decision had they not, but so they could have said no thanks. >> we'll leave the court of appeals opinion in place. jack smith, you when john donald trump, you lose, but the supreme court doesn't take cases only to overturn that we sometimes think this is big an important and also we want to establish the rule for the whole country right now, the dc

court of appeals, very influential, but it wouldn't be binding on the yorker, mississippi or california also, imagine, i wonder if there's an ego of the supreme court that wants to have the final word. >> i don't know. i'm just guessing here francis from greensboro, north carolina. what's your question? >> if the supreme court agrees with trump's argument, would president biden also be covered in that absolute immunity that's a great question, jim, let's turn to you on that. and most importantly, i went to wake four, so go dijk's they're going to do the albany stuff. i'm going to do the north carolina i'll see you at biscuit ville. but look, i did. yeah. this is gonna be and this is why it's really interesting. we've just never had a situation where the supreme court felt compelled to weigh in on the limit or non limits or absence of immunity for a president. so it will affect every president for the rest of time. it's gonna be a huge decision if they really get to the full merits of it. i

don't know that it will if you're thinking about like delaware, there's no prosecution coming and he wasn't president, so there's all sorts of wrinkles to some of the things that have happened factually. but yeah, this would be a historic moment, a very seismic case. >> the viewer question from laura coates, where is this biscuit ville? >> but good sale on the fill lynchburg shattered around and there they're great hangover cures okay. sorry, i'm taking i'm taking notes. that's of your question today as well. thank you so much, gentlemen. please stand by we have breaking news tonight. there are tense protests and a standoff now at the campus of the university of southern california, after a de, of protests, some of the most elite universities in this country over the israel-hamas war, la police arresting at least 50, 50 people at the usc campus. i'm gonna go right now to cnn's nick watt was live on campus in la. nick, what is happening now well, some

protestors are back on alumni park, which has been the scene of really long and passionate protest. >> old de, there are guys like this. the atmosphere is getting a little rough night. people like this who weren't sure their face, but are trying to intimidate us by filming us. so the atmosphere is getting a little unpleasant now we've got to say, earlier what happened. protesters started, the guys still filming me. >> i mean, i've got yeah. i mean, you should show your face. show your face. why are you scared to show your face? anyway anyway. anyway. so what happened earlier is from four 30 this morning protesters occupied this park in solidarity with other protests around the country. >> they put up tents. the college told him to take a tense dan yeah, that's right so anyway, then the protesters felt that the college was being a bit nit-picky by telling take down banners. so they put the

tense back up. then college officials came on to try to take the tense down and it got ugly. there were swearing, there were scuffled then one man was arrested the police then let him go after the crowd demanded. they let him go because the police realized it wasn't worth keeping this one prison in custody for the temperature, the heat that it was creating. so the process then built during the days, speakers chanting and then the lapd were invited onto campus by usc and they told the protesters they are ten minutes to clear some protesters decided they did not want to so they they linked arms in the middle of this part and they were arrested more than 50 of them were arrested anyways i think we should i think i think we should probably go because it's getting a little nasty here anyway, more than 50 people arrested back to you

guys, we need to we hit i'm hearing what's happening around you it please stay safe and watching as you are saying the tensions rise in the area where one of our journalists is reporting about what is happening on campus of usc describing the tension, describing the temperature ramping up at exponential degrees. and now having to possibly leave the area because the tension is so high, this afternoon an all day long affair and brinkley four days now across the country, we're seeing a lot of charged campuses in the unit six will continue to follow along. certainly hope that nick remains safe and continues to be able to report what i know the nation is watching what is also yet another state charging top trump, allies for their alleged roles and trying thank to overturn the 2020 election. this time, it's arizona, the indictment against mark meadows, rudy giuliani, and multiple others next the day

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in our state. and i hope to see them held accountable well, moments ago, arizona's governor katie hobbs responding act the state grand jury indicted seven trump allies and 11 so-called fake electors on charges centered around an alleged scheme to subvert the 2020 election. >> the trump associates now facing felony charges, includes this yearbook photo from a white house if staff mark meadows, trump's lawyers, rudy giuliani, age and ellis and christina, bob, as well as top campaign aide boris epstein. >> trump himself was not charged in this case, but he is named as an unindicted coconspirator. >> let's go and cosine national security reporter zachary cohen, who is in arizona right now. so zach, what do these indictments say about this so-called fake electors plot. and what are the charges they are now facing yellow or donald trump may not be charged in this indictment, but it does outline it and entire conspiracy alleged

conspiracy it revolves around donald trump and it charges several people who are very close in on trump, especially in that period right after the 2020 election, where he was trying to overturn the election results and especially here in arizona, it was targeting arizona along with six other key swings dates to try to flip that electoral count from biden to trump and look, there's 11 electors plus seven really close trump allies that are charged here. >> the electors, we always assume that this imbalance destination was focused on the electors themselves. but we've had reporting in the last few months that there were indications investigation was beginning to expand and expand to focus on members of trump's national campaign and focus on people within trump in her orbit. and you named a few of them just now that were named. and this indictment rudy giuliani, mark meadows, john eastman, jenna ellis, mike roman. these are people who were meeting face-to-face with trump. these are people who are on the ground helping trump put these fake electors together, help them facilitate their signing of those opaque electoral documents that we know are not just charged here, but also in other states around

the country. and you mentioned two, there's multiple felony counts, there's nine counts total multiple felonies there's the top line is a conspiracy count that is similar to what we've seen in georgia with rico conspiracy account where trump is indicted, but several of these other people are indicted as well. so some parallel those there. but ultimately the end of the de people within trump's inner orbit charged again here in arizona and yet trump, i liked the charges in georgia. >> he's not indicted in this case at all. he i think is an unindicted coconspirator in this case, but somebody we have not seen before ever be facing charges for the first time is boris epshteyn. why is that so significant? >> yellow are the difference there has to do with george's rico statute. they conspiracy the weather was conspiracy charges written in georgia. it is a top-down sort of criminal we'll charge there in arizona. the conspiracy charges a little bit different and may help explain why it on trump is not charged in this case. also, the proximity to the 2024 election may also be a contributing factor, but i am told by a

source first familiar that the investigation here in arizona is still ongoing and that was in response specifically to a question about why donald trump was not indicted. so we'll have to keep an eye on that horse, epstein, though, isn't interesting character and all this, and this is the first time he has been indicted or charged. in any of these investigations related to the 2020 election, despite the fact that there's been ample evidence that he was intimately involved in the fake electors scheme and he's even admitted it on camera himself. but epstein is a little different than some of these other coconspirators and co-defendants in this case he's remained very close donald trump in the years since trump lost the 2020 election, he was actually in courtroom in manhattan when trump was arraigned in the hush money case, and sources have told kristen holmes or a colleague that the reason we haven't seen boards have seen close to trump in the last few weeks. and the start of his criminal trial is because of concerns about the looming indictment here in arizona. and of course, that's come to fruition today. >> zachary cohen. thank you so much, wanting to bring in our panel again, here, elie honig, devlin barrett, jim trusty. >> what's your immediate

reaction to the fact that trump isn't unindicted coconspirator and these charges are now in arizona. these fake elector indictments collectively are a confused, confusing, inconsistent at times totally contradictory ness and let me lay that out for you. let's take the unindicted coconspirators out of it because that's talk is cheap. you don't have to ever prove that any prosecutors you may could just type it bank. okay. according to jack smith, only one person is criminally liable for all the fake electors. only donald trump, nobody else, according to fani willis, donald trump committed a crime and some of the georgia electors dead, but not others, according to the indictment, we see tonight. and another one of the states only the electors are liable, not donald trump, according to other states, no electors, nobody's criminally liable. this doesn't make any sense. come together. it's become a pylon. it's become chaos. and by the way, on top of all this, not a single one of these indictments which came three years after the fact has resulted in a single guilty plea or conviction to any serious or any felony case. i need to see the proof in the pudding before i'm at all

impressed by any of these, well jam, the other aspect of that could be, well, there's no coordination then there's not the sort of conspiring least among prosecutors to have one consistent theme. >> each side averaging something different. what do you say to this? >> well, let me look to our show if you want to get into all the wrinkles of time left, let's just say this. if you want to dispel that notion now a little bit, the guy that did opening statement in new york was the number three official at doj until about three weeks before alvin bragg's indictment. so i'm not saying that's a conclusive case of some sort of collusion, but it's a fair question. luck there. i agree with a lot of what we just heard from le in terms of the inconsistency, some of it you can chalk up to law oh, my initial reaction without having waited into the evidence of this case at all. it's really just kind of a baseline sympathy for the electors. and what i mean by that is a lot of these people are kind of low level political activists that are told if we win in court we may need you to jump up the next day and be the new elector that supports donald trump a lot of them are

on tv celebrating their role, thinking the last thing they're thinking is i'm going to be in a rico and georgia or a conspiracy case scenarios donna whatever you think of the rudy giuliani and all these other higher figures that are involved i have just an instinctive gut reaction that these electors didn't sign up for what they're getting prosecuted for, what you say. >> i think jim hits on a good point, which is the if part of that sentence. and i think the distinction you have to make is what a lot of these folks are saying and their behalf and their defense is this was just an in case of emergency break glass situation, but with a prosecutors are saying no, no, no, no, no you broke glass to create an emergency to try to get trump back in the white house. and that's not okay. you can't fraud your way to a different outcome so that's the accusation they have to stand there, stand that up in court to ellie's point, and we'll see what happens. >> well, bringing to you live here from the glass half, empty correct. quad right now. >> there you go. thanks, guys so much. please stand by and

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powering progress cnn this morning with kasie hunt tomorrow at five easter all right. the other other big story tomorrow dates seven can you believe it at the trump hush money trial with potentially more dramatic and sensational testimony from the former chairman of the national enquirer's parent company. an-my is also the longtime friend, donald trump. his name is david pecker& his testimony so far outlines a scheme to use these catch and kill tactics to try to protect donald trump i'm burying damaging stories about him while smearing his political rivals for also testifying. it was all tied to help and donald trump win the 2016 election elie honig is at the magic wall with a look ahead le good to have you over

there. i mean, first of all, tell us to get how does pecker set the stage for what's going to come next? >> well, laura david pecker is doing exactly that. he's setting the stage. he's getting the jury into the facts of this case, getting them used to the names, the places, the who's who, of course, as you said, david pecker and they go way back, their relationship dates back to the 1980s. the main thing he's doing is getting the jury to understand the three main aspects of the catch and kill scheme, starting with the doorman dino sajudin, he testified about this on tuesday and he talked about how they paid to get his story. it ended up being untrue about an alleged love child of donald trump's, where we left off with our testimony on tuesday. he was starting to discuss the payoffs scheme to karen mcdougal, who allegedly had an affair with donald trump. we're going to hear him finish that part of his tests the money tomorrow, and then he's going to get to the heart of the matter. the payoffs to stormy daniels know what appears. david pecker, head minimal involvement in that, but he will get the jury to understand the pattern at play here. and very importantly, david pecker testified about a key meeting in august 2015 with three very

important participants, donald trump, david pecker, and michael cohen where according to pecker, this is where they first said donald trump is now running for office and we need to take care of these stories that might make him look bad in the campaign. very importantly, in the campaign, we're going to hear from michael cohen, of course, about that meeting two, that's how you though about what the cross might look like. you're obviously hearing the direct examination right now with the prosecution. this is their lead witness they're asking questions, but then the defense is going to have their bite at the apple. >> yeah. i think there's gonna be a couple of main lines of cross-examination. david pecker is testifying pursuant to what we call a non-prosecution agreement, meaning prosecutors have given him a free pass in exchange for his testimony, and i think the cross-examination argument is going to be first of all, was there a crime here or not? and if so, why or you walk when they're trying to lock up donald trump, how is that fair? we also are going to hear i think cross-examination about who exactly david pecker interacted with because he said that the vast majority of his interactions on this catch and kill scheme, where would this guy, michael cohen and not the

boss menn, although there were a few with the boss, but i think they're going to argue that might cohen was essentially freelancing. he was doing this on his own. and david pecker can only tie things really on michael cohen more so than donald trump. >> who comes next. so after david pecker, yes. so we don't know the exact order yet. we're playing that sort of day by day. of course, we will hear from michael cohen, one of the big questions will be to what extent is their testimony consistent or inconsistent with one another? we probably will hear from stormy daniels, the recipient of the allegedly criminally covered up payments. we also may hear from hope hicks, who was involved in the trump campaign's efforts to rebound after that really damaging access hollywood tape. and we have already begun to see the prosecution introduce financial checks. they've introduced some of them but through david pecker, we're going to see, among other things, copies of the checks that donald trump row and some of them he signed in order to reimburse michael cohen what the prosecution is going to try to do. laura, which we did all the time, is build a case that is a latticework or everything overlaps and supports one another we'll see if the defense lawyers can poke holes

in that. >> well, i'll see le come on back. thank you so much. is any day now, judge, merchan may decide whether donald trump violated his gag order. now, trump, he's been lashing out because he claims he's been gagged while michael cohen has been free to speak out every time donald opens his mouth, he know that something non-truthful is coming out of it. what is his goal? again? it's to incite these followers within which to prevent me from appearing before the new york district attorney before the manhattan district attorney this upcoming trial troubled people cause trouble donald, is that troubled person and he's causing trouble i think the phrase is hurt, people hurt as fine. >> but tonight, cohen vowing to stop talking for now, writing on x quote, despite not being the gagged defendant out of respect for them the judge masan and the prosecutors, i will cease posting anything

about donald on my x account or on the mere culpa podcast until after my trial testimony. see you all in a month? or more. jim, let me ask you about this. is is the damage already done though you're talking about michael cohen as a witness because when i heard him speaking out as a prosecutor might and sing thought, well, i may have a gag order for the defendant. i need a muzzle for my witnesses. >> tranquilizer darts. i mean, look this is a guy if you're a prosecutor, you are in absolute agony to have an important witness running his mouth in a way that's going to be used against him every time he's gotten tremendous self restraint to stop after 2000 times but every time he goes on tv or a podcast, whether he's inconsistent with things you said before, which is classic cross-examination or if it's just bias that he hates trump. that's all going to come back in front of the jury. they're going to be showing clip after clip after clip and saying that you right there, right. mr. cohen? so a guy that already

has the baggage of being a failed cooperator, a perjure, a guy that's clearly in the thug life as an attorney. all of these things are just going to be magnified by all these press moments. he's had and i just think it's bizarre that a prosecutor couldn't control them and say, save it, do a victory lap afterwards, but shut up up for a minute is the same true for say, a stormy daniels who's not going after trump in the same way that michael cohen has. but certainly she has gone toe-to-toe with the number of trolls. yeah. well, let me say this. i think this all goes to the heart of the defense strategy, which is where do you go in terms of cross i think pecker is a friendly cross-examination. i do not think you go after him i'm like your friendship has been destroyed. you don't even go crazy about the non-prosecution agreement. you get concessions out of him that he's probably going to give you that are helpful and you move on because you're keeping the focus on cohen, you want the jury to thank this entire trial is a referendum on the credibility of michael cohen. so even with the women involved, stormy daniels, you could say she's

it's been extortionate. she's done some crazy things. she's been inconsistent about whether they had a relationship touch it lightly, but don't make it an emphasis because you want all eyes on cohen at your best chance of getting either one are 12 jurors to ruin this thing for the prosecution devin, you've actually been in court earlier the week and then last week, this is going to be tomorrow. the first full day in court. we had the dentist appointment for an alternate juror on monday, which bear that had been a cleaning but oral hygiene is important. you had of course, passover observance as well on tuesday and also on monday now it'd be the first full day for this witness and others i'm, talking about what trump has been like in this courtroom because he's had to sit there tomorrow is de seven so he's an interesting defendant to watch because on the one hand, and i say this based in part on watching him during the e jean carroll civil case, which was only a few months ago he tends to move between being sort of signs of irritation and signs of

boredom. >> but now that the actual trial is underway, he seems pretty engaged, pretty attentive and when when pecker was testifying, you noticed him thinking about and listening carefully to pecker's answers. they obviously know each acre, each other a peck, pecker's, a surprisingly cheerful witness he's pretty pretty chipper which is not always what you get in prosecution witness but i do think you notice flashes of irritation from him, such, for example, when the door issue came up and this whole allegation of some sort of scandal about him came up. he grimaced and he and he he clearly it works and greatly to be to have that stuff aired in front of him. and i think he's also just a person like a lot of people who are powerful and rich and famous. he's not used to having to sit and listen for long stretches. and i think that is an issue that's probably going to come up more and more, but i'm obsessed with this notion of how the jury looks at him and reacts to

him, and how he looks at the jury and react to the jury because an e jean carroll that dynamic was awful. and if that repeats itself, he could be in trouble. >> really important and we'll see what happens tomorrow. another very important de of testimony will the defense be able to poke some holes? will they continue on the trajectory of allowing him to be the upbeat, upbeat witness or not? elie honig, devlin barrett, jim trusty. thank you. all. so much well, tensions are continuing to rise as pro-palestinian demonstrations are erupting on campuses across this country live pictures let's hear from the university of southern california where dozens have been arrested. >> what should president biden do in this moment? that's next i saw who would surely arthritis and psoriasis. i was on a journey for a really long time to find some relief placenta ics works for me. >> consent ticks helps real people get real relief from the symptoms of psoriatic arthritis for psoriasis, serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema

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affected. >> my identity theft in 2022 and the threats are more than you realize if you're a victim of identity theft, lifelong works to fix it on your yeah. backed by the million dollar protection package, enroll now our pharmacy has been in business for nearly 100 years. a wife and i have run it for the last 30 american technology is making this more efficient and customer-friendly. we use online tools to fill prescriptions process insurance claims, and mike deliveries. but some in washington want to undermine the technology tools were we rely on their misguided agenda will empower are foreign adversaries and hurt small businesses like ours are leaders need to strengthen, not weaken america in technology manu raju on capitol hill. and this is cnn we're seeing right now some live pictures out of los angeles. >> remember there is a standoff at the usc campus is between protesters and police were seeing a line of officers on

the right part of your screen? pain where they appeared to be forming a line horizontally to try to prevent the protesters from advancing through different areas and trying to push them back and contain them to a particular zone. i left. we're also seeing an aerial view of the campus at large where you do see protesters disbursed around the area and different locations. we're continuing to follow along to see what might happen in these areas campus protests are colliding with politics though as lawmakers call on colleges to do more to stop the reports of antisemitism that are coming out at the ers-2, texas at austin, for example, today, state troopers marched in lockstep to stop students walking out of class. republican governor greg be tolerated at least 34 people were arrested. you're seeing some of that on the screen right now. that includes a television photographer from the local fox station in

austin. petition says he was charged with trespassing. video shows him falling down as troopers arrest him. but demonstrations are popping up at colleges from coast to coast one week after students at columbia began camping out and calling for the university to divest from israel columbia has now extended the negotiating deadline with protesters, but the university says some people trespassed onto campus to pursue their own agendas. today, house speaker mike johnson led a congressional delegation to columbia. he wants to schools president to resign, but the school says, it stands by their president and protesters made their voice voices heard while johnson was speaking enjoy your free speech. i think there's always a place for debate in the free exchange of ideas. but let's not equivocated on what's happening in hamas with hamas& and gaza this is a battle is netanyahu said prime minister netanyahu said between good versus evil, light versus darkness, civilization versus

barbarism. this isn't a close call with b now seen in public commentator and former senior adviser to hillary clinton, karen finney and former pennsylvania republican congressmen charlie dent. thank you both for being here at first. i begin with what we just saw on the screen greene speaker johnson visiting. he the speaker of the house, obviously, what do you make up his visit to columbia? >> well, i don't know if he needed to go there, but i think he's fundamentally right that these these protests have gotten out of hand. i mean, the business of university, a private school education and education is being disrupted. students can't get the class, are being told to go to class remotely. now, jewish students are told to stay away and so columbia is not able provide a safe learning environment for its students. and i think it's important that they make arrests and clear the campus once and for all. they don't have right? thanks to publicly and camp on private property. so i think they're right now, johnson look, he's up there. he's making a political point. but i think his point is a fair

one that this neat that there is a hook of course, of federal funding that tech that we're talking about, fab university still have that hookup. why maybe congress has an interest in this and what they could maybe withhold the president biden, you know, condemned antisemitism with the protests. yeah, he's also facing a lot of pressure to do a lot more than he is right now. >> what would you advise? >> so first of all, let me say i think what johnson did was pretty shameful because that's throwing gas on the fire, that's not actually trying to say to the university, how can we help you solve this problem? and that's what we should be doing. we should be more concerned about how do we help our campuses create a safe environment for not just our students, all the people who work there, not how can i try to score political points? and i think the other thing, well, what should he have done? >> well, i visited all you're saying. >> sure. why not call the president and say, what can we be doing? well, how about do a meeting of university presidents instead of a hearing, bring them together and say, what do you need? what resources do you need from us? because remember it's also

it's governors and mayors who are going to ultimately have to deal with this. so i think it's taking an approach that understands this is a community event when this happens and how am i grew up in berkeley so we saw a lot of protesting, right? and that really collaborative approach as part of how you say our number one priority is people safety. jewish students should absolutely not feel intimidated david know students should feel intimidated as a black woman, trust me, i know what that feels like, and i don't want anybody to feel that way. i think the president, he has condemned the protests a couple of times. he has also the department of education has resources that they've developed again, i think part of it is talking with these campus communities and saying, do you have the expertise and the resources that you need? because we cannot have this kind of disruption. but the last thing i'll just say, i think we have to be really careful about because we certainly saw this during george floyd many of the

real agitators who are not there to be peaceful or outsiders with their own agendas. we saw students actually even saying that that has been their experience. so think law enforcement has to be careful who is there peacefully? have the say their piece and their first amendment rights and who's they're really trying to incite violence. >> it's an important point and distinction. we hear a lot about over the last several months, especially since october 7, and we now the infamous hearing that led to at least the resignation of one president there's a lot more requests for college presidents to resign in the wake of what's happened in congress, isn't backed doing just that. do you think that that is the solution here to call for those resignations or is there an alternate course? >> no, i'm not sure the resignation is the proper course of action. the case at colombia. >> but it seems to me that these college communities in too many cases are far too tolerant of this anti-symmetric commentary. >> river to the sea, palestine will be referred three other

anti-semitic tropes, the vds moment, it's anti-symmetric these college presidents would be shutting down these types of protests if these were attacks against lgbt residents or, or african americans as they should. but they've been very tolerant of these attacks on the jewish community. and i think they're being called out for it. i'm not saying this president needs to resign. she's under a lot of pressure but higher education patient has a lot of reflection to do about this whole bone is happening mostly at elite schools by the way, i'm not hearing this stuff happened in a lot of the state schools across the country. but it's happening at these elite schools. what's going on in the culture of these campuses that tolerates this type of anti-semitism. >> one of the things that concerns me though, is that a couple of things. number one, disinformation is grant that. so that's not helping either. >> but also, maybe we need to take a look at ourselves and say what's the tone and tenor, for example, in washington that we are what our leaders are also putting out there the lack of civility, the lack of open dialogue and conversation all

of us can be a part of being a better example of how to do that and i just don't think very few are probably the kids are just not seeing that i would think when they're turning on the television, i think more of us should commit to that. well, it might be true that they're not maybe mirroring something or we may be seeing a microcosm of what is happening in the greater world as well. karen finley, charlie dent. thank you both so much. >> i want to also thank all of you for watching our coverage continues the sinking of the titanic, how would really happen? special to our premier sunday at nine on cnn zyrtec allergy relief works fast and last a full 24 hours, so they can be delivered for dance okay dave let's be more than our

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