plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us! visit xfinitymobile.com today. night with abdullah. >> next on cnn closed captioning brought to you by mesobook her firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. >> if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with ms ophelie oma collis. now donald trump or into another title for the second time in one day unindicted coconspirator number one, that's tonight on news night cnn breaking news i'm abby phillip in washington breaking news tonight, arizona adds itself to the list of states alleging the donald trump and his allies broke the

law. >> a grand jury handed up an indictment outlining how 11 republican supporters of the former president lied to congress, allegedly acting as part of a conspiracy to commit fraud and forgery. now, the lie is that donald trump won the 2020 election. that lie was memorialized on video, a video posted by the arizona republican party itself you can see here the fake electors put pen to paper and swore to fraud. the name defendants included the state's former republican party chair to sitting legislators, and a former united states senate candidate. the defendants whose names are obscured by black ink, pierce trump's most inner circle. it's rudy giuliani. it's mark meadows, mike roman, jenna ellis, john eastman, or it's epstein and it's the 1927 yankees of bogus election fraud essentially at the center is one man unindicted coconspirator number one, also

known as donald trump, the former president of the united states. now, the arizona indictment is yet another blockbuster moment in a post-presidency that has been historic for all the wrong reasons. and it's not the only time today in a remarkable turn of deja vu that we learned that the former president it could have been charged with crimes and a swing state where he tried to deny the will of the voters in michigan and investigator identified today the trump was also an unindicted coconspirator in the alleged plot to change the 2020 election cnn legal analysts, eliot william is at the magic wall to explain more about what exactly is in this arizona case, elliott sure. >> and let's take a look at it, abby. thanks a lot. and so this here is the indictment walking through charges at nine different counts against 18 different individuals, some of whom will be household names and recognizable to many people as you talked about here at the beginning of the show, what is alleges number one, conspiracy, criminal act among a group of

people, fraud and forgery of documents and information. now, what's a little bit of history here, and you showed some of these videos a little bit at the top, abby, but this is people protesting at a counting center in maricopa county, arizona on election day, having alleged a great deal of fraud and misconduct on the part that many people turned out to not be true. now, let's talk through who actually is indicted here these are the individuals it's who were the fake electors themselves. they signed their names to these fake electors certificates. and there are a number of these folks here. none of them are recognizable or household names too many people, like some of the folks we'll see in a second. >> now the actual fake electors certificate, and i think the words you use at the top of the show where signing their names to fraud on video. this is where they signed electors

certificates, and this will all be evidenced in over the course of this prosecution, in effect, saying that donald trump won the 2020 election despite full knowledge that joe biden had one and once again, this here is evidenced that was put on the republican party of arizona's twitter account, a video of these fake electors being signed. once again, it's rare and criminal prosecutions to have evidence that is this vivid. now? all of these people, of course, are innocent until proven guilty, but they're on video committing the act that they are alleged to have done so notice, there's a lot of blacked out names here. and as of the point at which we got a lot of this information early today, a number of the names were redacted given the identities of some of the people. now, we had cnn have identified a number of the people who are under those redactions, including borscht, epstein, rudy giuliani, top aides to the former president mark meadows. the chief of staff, gen. jen

ellis, john eastman, all attorneys around the president. and of course referring to to them specifically, here the foreign president is identified as coconspirator, unindicted coconspirator number one, pretty specifically in the indictment, it says used to be president of the united states. and so more will come out here as we learn where the prosecutors will go with this, abby. >> yeah, certainly. and look, it's not because they're kind of protect these people. they just haven't been served yet. that's why we don't have their actual names in the indictment. elliot williams. thank you very much joining me now, we've got an 18 of experts on kush kadoorie, kaitlan collins is here with us, bradley mosques and carry cordillera as well on kush this is obviously now a little bit delayed. actually, frankly, i mean, we are now in 2024 this was back in 2020. this stuff occurred on top of that you've got in michigan and in arizona unindicted people who really are at the center of this is the system working in your view or is this? something else?

>> this is something else you're right, that this is as this is much too late for us to be grappling seriously with the events that happened in 2020 i think in an ideal world, these state cases wouldn't even exist because shortly after joe biden came into office, the justice department should have been aggressively on the scene very, very quickly, not just dealing with trump world that trump campaign, the white house would eventually became the federal case in washington, but also all the fake electors as some of these same people, of course, are unindicted coconspirators in jack smith's federal case. so they may get federally indicted at some point, but we have like, i think a bit of a constitutional car crash going on in this country at the moment. and you can kind of trace it to originally the misjudgments of the biden white house and the justice department under merrick garland. >> hold that thought for a second because i think we do need to come back to that idea. brad, i do want to read what rudy giuliani, spokesperson is saying and reacting to the michigan kasie saying that the continued weaponization of our justice system should concert

concern all michiganders and americans. it is really amazing that giuliani really has he was so brazen and some of these activities and really has not seen the full extent of the law really dealing with his actions he's suggesting that this is all very unfair. i mean, do you think that giuliani is actually facing the degree of accountability that he should given how involved he wasn't some of this stuff he hasn't yet is financial life is pretty much in ruins at this point. his law license is out the window and he's now facing all these indictments. it will sink in for him eventually, the problem for the rudy giuliani is of the world. these are all trump's legal advisors as contiguity. they're all going down and trump's not going to save and can't save any of them. he's going to let these people, hey, jenna ellis has already pleaded in one stage. she's going to plead here, no doubt. can chesebro cooperated with arizona to help provide all these indictments? these

people will look to save themselves to the extent they haven't already just given up because no one can save, you think, by the way, it can chesebro, who met with arizona officials a little while ago, voluntarily, is the reporting. you think he is likely had a hand in some of this in arizona? i think looking through some of the indictment and seeing some of the details ahead in terms of texts, in terms of emails, i think now i don't think trent can just roll alone. >> is that all that but i think he was a critical source in caracas operating some of what they already suspected and carry this is the indictment here. it's long, but it's pretty dry. it's pretty straight to the point what did you glean from it? >> well, it's it's a fraud fraudulent case. it's a case based on fraud. so it's not going to be super extensive in terms of the facts of the indictment because what's being alleged simply that they sign there her name's to fraudulent documents. and so the burden of proof is not particularly high. so i think in this case, one thing we will be looking for is whether or not some of these individuals really just plead out to lesser charges. and it's not quite as dramatic as

the felonies that are charged are indicated, but arizona really was one of the major states we put our head back in that time where there was so much activity going on to try to change the outcome of the election. so i think a number of us who have been observing all of the cases since 2020 have been wondering whether arizona would eventually bring something as a state case because remember, it is the states that are responsible for administering the alliance i do wonder about the timing, why it took so long, and i wonder if they perhaps are thinking about trying to demonstrate for folks in the future a deterrent effect don't do this in the future in a future election because there are consequences for politics may have played a role in that because it was a change and who is the ag bright area that was changed in 2022 with this current attorney general. so that may have been part of why it took four years. >> so caitlin, you just had a really interesting interview with cassidy hutchinson, who knows a lot of these players,

mark meadows is for former boss. she spent all kinds of time with him. i want to play what she said reacting to these indictments. listen it's really sad i was really close with mark. i really believed in mark as a principle that's why i chose to take the drop with the chief of staff so it's difficult to see him in this position. but i think on the greater scale to free look at how mr. trump has conducted himself. through his business career and also his political career. i almost related two bodies around him, but he takes out everybody who is loyal to him because it's all about his personal gain and what he can gain from those people. >> and she's right, kaitlan, the body count is so high here you see it in this indictment. it's pretty much trump's entire inner circle plus a bunch of other people too. >> yeah. and cassidy made a

really interesting point which was that she was pre booked and then this news broke that are four balls had been indicted for a second time, which is it's really remarkable. >> but she made an interesting point that there are all these bodies around donald trump, all of you know, it's his whole formal former circle, multiple attorneys of his that are indicted here. >> but she said some people go into it not fully knowing what they're getting themselves into. she said, but a lot of people go into it with their eyes wide open. they know what they're getting themselves involved with. and then this is the end result they're indicted in here. and it was just remarkable, especially for mark meadows, because one thing she said that she felt personally was important and she has not come forward without its effects. she's threatened, she is fearful for her safety at times. it's takes a lot to come forward and speak and she says what this indictment makes clear is mark meadows is not cooperating. >> he's not coming forward and saying what he knows. and she was saying that she feels that's really important and not a step that he's chosen to take to tell the truth. >> well, he's not cooperating with the state investigations

but maybe with japanese don't really know what he's doing when it comes to jack smith at this point, there's a lot of speculation because he's indicted in georgia, he's indicted in arizona. he's not indicted in the federal election interference case. >> i'm very, extremely notable, conspicuous out. yeah. i mean, look, kaitlyn donald trump is facing this case and the hush money trial in new york. >> he's now an unindicted coconspirator in two separate jurisdictions in another jurisdiction in georgia, he has been indicted. this is really chickens coming home to roost, but he's not really that's not sinking in for him. >> you know, it's remarkable to me is boris epstein who is in here who's never been indicted before. yeah. >> which is in and of itself also works for donald trump right now, comes with them to court. he is currently one of his top advisers. he's immensely involved in the campaign christina bob, who's in your she's the one who signed that letter at mar-lago saying there's no more classified documents here to the best of my knowledge, she's also a senior counsel on election integrity for the rnc right now. i mean, it's the web is admits.

>> yeah. but look, it's almost like you're in a different world. there is what is happening in these court documents in these cases then there is the former president and all these people who are under indictment and carrying on their lives as if it's not happening schedule. >> thank you for being with us everyone else stick around. >> we've got a lot more ahead. we are monitoring some breaking news, though, out of california, there is a standoff ongoing right now between police and protesters on the campus. of usc. dozens have already been arrested. this is just one of the chaotic scenes as playing out across american campuses tonight. crowds protesting israel's war in gaza. let's go live to nick watt they're at usc, nick what's happening in this moment well, abbe, the arrests are underway, maybe 50 or so people have been arrested so far, students and people from office campus who came here today to join this now, nationwide campus protests about what's going on in israel and gaza. >> now, there are dozens of

lapd he and campus officers they surrounded this park where protesters have been gathering since about 4:30 this morning. they left one sayyed open, so people who didn't not want to be arrested and charged with criminal trespass could leave you can see protesters are still there shouting shame on you, shame on you at the police as a the last half dozen people are being arrested now, earlier this morning, when campus police tried to clear some tents that were here it goes there was a lot of cussing the were scuffled between those campus officers and the protesters. and then during the day after that, it was calm, but the crowd grew in the college closed the gates. they were asking for id if people coming in, they were trying to keep a lid on this. they didn't really manage it. so what you've seen now though peaceful array the organizers told all of these protesters to submit peacefully to arrest, and they also all had written on their arms the number of a

lawyer who will help them out. so right now they're all being processed. the protests is still going on, but this patch of land has almost now been cleared by the lapd. and by the campus police. you see one more arrest right there, three palestine as they shout on the way and that's what's going on. heavy. it's been a difficult day for usc know dad back to u usc and so many other campuses across the country. it's just one more moment in in this country's history where we see our protests really starting and growing on the campuses of our university's nick watt. thanks for bringing that to us. we will we'll continue to monitor that situation there at the university of southern california. thank you for all of that also tonight, we are awaiting a judge's ruling about whether trump violated his gag order in the hush money trial in new york plus one legal scholar joins me on why he says this entire case it's a

historic mistake our panel will debate it. that's next this is a special live coverage the whole myth has to be re-imagined fee if you didn't know whether you were next, they were both tied up? yeah. yeah. i was called in and i saw what turned out to be the biggest heist in history it went from gold medal winning icon to a pariah so it really happened with jesse l. >> martin sunday at nine on cnn transfer your ira or your old 401 k to robert. >> goodbye. april 30th& will give you a 3% boost with the biggest match of any ira on market. robin hood gold gets you the most for retirement my crimea film on your teeth, dr. g actually the build-up five

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thought the bragg case against trump was illegal embarrassment now, i think it's a historic mistake. the author, judge sherman argues that alvin bragg is stretching his jurisdiction pushing untested legal interpretations and bringing a case without a clear intent to defraud is that a fair argument or is it just plain wrong? well, my panel will respond, but first, the author himself, judge sugar menn, is here. to explain his theory. he's a professor at boston university's school of law, professor. you say, you say c, three red flags with this case. what are they well the three red flags our first that there has there's no reported case. >> i've checked the records of state cases. there's no state case that shows a state prosecutor using the federal election campaign act, which is the really the crime that the prosecutors are alleging here. a federal election violation,

federal campaign filing violation as the basis either directly or indirectly for any crime. so that is a first example of what's unprimed i said ended here and this is not just a coincidence. there are good reasons why a federal prosecutor has complete control to the exclusion of the state's for enforcing something as complicated as the federal election campaign act. that's the first one the second problem is that there is no example of this statute that relies on an intent to defraud being such a broad general public. the idea that one would be defrauding the general public are voters. there's no precedent for using it for election interference parents. and the final problem is the use of this statute. but basically what the business filing violation is a misdemeanor with intent to defraud it becomes a felony

only if the prosecutors can show an intent to commit or conceal another crime that trump lawyers pointed out made an argument that in new york, there is a problem with trying to use the filing. the miss filing to upgrade it to a felony, relying on another jurisdiction and the manhattan da could only point to two examples, neither of which is a judicial interpretation. so it's an untested theory. those two cases, one was a guilty plea and one was jury instruction. neither one counts as a judge hearing an argument and ruling on it. so those are examples of how this case, three examples of how it's untapped based on untested legal theories and on unprecedented applications but luck i have from a very layman's perspective, here's my big question for you. >> i mean you don't like the election interference thing, but it strikes me that the whole reason that these election-related laws exist is

to prevent people from using their money in ways and not disclosing it to the public. i mean, the idea here is, is it not that the american public is entitled to know who is paying for what. now it's not to say that if trump had not made the payment, it would have been fine, but he wanted to live hi about that isn't that the whole point of the law and the whole point of the law is based on federal statutes. >> so the app, this is really shoehorning a federal case into a state case. and the federal statute tells us that this is it uses a concept called preemption, is a very complicated issue. but the point is, it's unprecedented. for states to enforce this. why? because this is the technicalities and the applications of the federal election campaign act there, there's complicated with such a long history of different interpretations that it's for

the federal election commission and the doj. it's important to give credit. i mean, this is one point against trump. trump has claimed that this is joe biden flip of the allegation to say that it's biden's election interference. well, the reason why that's so false is that the biden administration came into office and bent over backwards not to charge this. so they didn't they didn't do it so exactly right. we have we have a bunch of lawyers here in this and they've got they've got some comments about, i want to start with you because i know you have some thoughts on this. you disagree? >> yeah. so i do disagree and i guess jed reading through the piece, one of the first thoughts that came to mind reading the constant referring references do it's unprecedented. it's novel, it's never been done before. my response was. >> so what there's all kinds of times the prosecutors bring a first of their kind type of case. this was a very much a first of its kind of situation where you had the evidence of

your falsified business records to defraud the public in violation of at least two different statutes. one federal, one state. the judges in manhattan and the federal judge say you're wrong. so in terms of being a precedent, so what there's a concept of selective prosecution, which is a violation of equal protection of the 14th amendment. i mean, trust me, i have never voted for republican in my entire life and one of the reasons why i'm so opposed to donald trump is because he is a threat to the rule of law but one concept of the rule of law is that one has to follow precedence and it just seems like a remarkable coincidence that a de, who campaigned on the platform of prosecuting donald trump just happens to have stretched new york jurisdiction to cover federal election law for the first time in american history that a state prosecutors doing it and is also using an untested theory that's never been tried before of an intent to defraud the general public

it's just a remarkable coincidence that the manhattan de has found a series of untested theories that he's applied to donald trump and donald trump alone, i have a question let me just preface this also by saying, i also think there's probably a case probably shouldn't exist in wouldn't exist if the justice department has had been doing its job correctly. >> i agree that there lead go issues here that maybe at issue on appeal and also, we all get it wrong from time to time. myself included but on this question of selective prosecution, i just have to ask you, what do you think the standard is under new york law to establish a selective prosecution defense? >> so i'm actually parcel part of what i'm thinking about is federal election federal, this federal standards for selective prosecution so we're in state. it's been developed. state courts are what are the standards in new york? do you know oh, well, i'm part of what i'm suggesting is that there is also a standards of the rule of law also must

reflect federal the 14th amendment. so there's a no faster, i have to say, i think it is really inappropriate, but you'd have used the word the phrase selective prosecution on air and multiple times in this op-ed, none of the red flags you identified established selective prosecution under new york law. >> the case has to be not only unique, but you have to identify similarly situated people who were not charged your op-ed does not do that so there is so there's something called concurrent jurisdiction, which is that federal law also applies to states. and so there is a line of precedence about selective prosecution and vindictive prosecution under the 14th amendment. so it's the same standard law it's the same standard under federal law. can't just be that the case is novel are unique. you have to identify similarly situated defendants who are not charged carrier. >> i want you to i do want you to jump in here. just one second because i can we have carry cordero here? i do think that there is a question here.

i've heard from a lot of lawyers, not just from jared and others. they say there's not as much clarity about what that other offense is that would allow it to become a felony, and that might be intentional. but is that enough in your mind? well, i think some of the issues that professor sugar menn is raising are issues that some of us have been bracing since the original charging document happen, which is that the theory that the prosecutors are using is something that is novel and it is unusual to do that against a former president. so i think that part it has been an observation that has been made consistently. i think a bigger picture here is that the prosecutors are using a theory of the case that they are calling election interference and one of the reasons that i'm not a big fan of this new york case is because election interference for those of us who have been following what's been going on since 2016,

election interference is a really serious allegation. we had foreign countries that we're engaged in election interference. we had domestic forces that we saw in january 6, then everything surrounding that that's the basis of the federal january 6, case that was an effort to overturn the election and it seems a stretch, at least in my judgment and i think in some others, like like professor sherman, that using that argument in a case that is really fraud in terms of record keeping on the part of allegedly the former president and michael cohn and is based on trumping it up to felony charges based on campaign finance violations that were never charged. i think one thing that professor sherman is alluding to, but not saying is that former president was never charged with campaign finance violations under federal law.

and that is a gap that just simply exists. >> your take on that? >> yeah. no. i mean, i think these are fair observations as a prudential matter. this is how prosecutors would think about as a prudential matter. so this case have been brought reasonable minds could disagree, as i said, i don't this cation exist because as justices, departments have present preempted all of this by doing its job correctly. however the case is what it is, and we have to judge it within its four corners and again, i want to return to the op-ed i've never seen a legal analyst offer such sweeping conclusions off the basis of an opening statement? he didn't even see and i want to close just by quoting another part of the op-ed. >> i think if i can just professor sigma is making arguments that are based on the research that he's done i don't the argument in the op-ed is that the opening statement raised expectations for the jury that they won't be able to meet. it was not about one of the things that came out of the opening statement was this theory that it's that it was a conspiracy.

>> and the counter argument to that is that it was a he payment that was made. >> it was unseemly it was probably to affect the outcome of the election in terms of trying to do a thing that would help the former president win the election. but that is, one could argue different than a theory of election interference yeah, i just don't see how that's going to take the case, but i had the last word i'll say if there's a conspiracy there, i think we've already seen some of it and david packers testimony, there was a conspiracy to interfere with the elections deprive the public of information. and both of them and hadn't, judge and a federal judge have said this meets the legal requirements for now the piece, professor sugar man ends by you arguing that this case is still an embarrassment of prosecutorial ethics and a parents selective prosecution shouldn't the. >> courts sort that out at the end of the day that's exactly

right. >> i mean, i think at the point the close of my op-ed says there will be appeals after this to raise these questions. i still think that what the prosecutors had a duty to do is not just i'm not just getting the opening statement. the indictment was a year ago. there have been these persistent questions that i and many others have raised about what is the basis for this prosecution. we are still not that clear of what the basis a year later, what is the theory to defraud. so all i'm pointing out is the many ways this is unprecedented, untested, and that is its own damage to the rule of law that could be abused in any direction in the future. that's why i think this case is a historic mistake interesting, provocative argument. >> i think one could argue there's a first time for everything just because it's untested, doesn't mean that it's not necessarily valid. we'll see what the courts say at the end of the day. professor thanks for joining us. we appreciate that conversation and debate and everyone in the studio. thank

you as well. and much more on our breaking news out of arizona tonight and donald trump's allies in that 2020 elections former national security adviser, john bolton is here and he joins me to react plus fulton will also respond to trump's demand for absolute immunity. that argument will go before the supreme court tomorrow the white house correspondents dinner, live saturday at seven eastern on cnn it appears that despite my sinister ethics employees are still managing their own hr and payroll why would you think nir humans deserve to do their own payroll? because their livelihoods depend on it, because they have bills to pay. >> me now return the world of hr and payroll to its rightful place of chaos well, face a tsunami of unnecessary felt likes of which you have never seen this friday making this

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progress when the jinx came out, i thought, oh, my god, when bob has a friend, he expects blind loyalty. >> gravi surprises five as we're dealing with breaking news tonight over several cases involving donald trump, the question at the center of it all should presidents have absolute immunity?

>> that is what trump is asking the supreme court to consider tomorrow in a blockbuster hearing. that'll carry some major consequences for his election. and beyond former republican congresswoman liz cheney is now urging the justices to act and to act quickly. she says, quote, if delay prevents this trump case from being tried this year, the public may never hear critical and historic evidence developed before the grand jury and our system may never hold the man most responsible for january six to account joining me now is donald trump's former national security adviser, ambassador john bolton. ambassador bolton, thanks for being here. >> glad to be here. you heard liz cheney is message in that op-ed she wants the justices to really view time as being of the essence here because if they don't rule quickly, the american people won't have the benefit of hearing the evidence in this case. >> is she right now? i think she's exactly right. in fact, the briefing schedule the court said was kinda disappointing. i

think they could have moved moved this more quickly. they have and carpels circumstances. so i do think speed and coming to their conclusion is going to be very important. obviously, the substance of it's gonna be very important, but i think for the country as a whole, it would benefit from them making this their top priority for the rest of the term. do you agree with her assessment that it's likely that most of the justices, perhaps we'll say this idea of blanket immunity is nonsense. >> and if so, is it even justifiable that they didn't just issue an earlier ruling on the subject. >> well, i think the court has to opine itself. i don't think it could rely simply on a court of appeals opinion. but i think rejecting trump's extreme argument that he has total immunity for everything doesn't mean that no president has immunity for anything it's more complicated, except in this case, if you read the indictment, none of the acts alleged by president trump were presidential acts. they were acts of a presidential

candidate, which he entitled to do up until the point where he crosses the line and i think if the court accepts that, is their approach to the decision, it could come pretty quickly. >> so speaking of alleged acts in two states just today michigan and arizona, trump is an unindicted coconspirator, while his associates have been charged in the the fake electors plot, what do you make of that? i mean, it's so extraordinary that we're sitting here talking about a former president on trial in new york city. and then also an unindicted coconspirator twice in one day. >> well, i think in each state they have to determine on the facts they're alleging about the electoral college plot, whether they we have the evidence to convict trump. i mean, i think before lawfare gets out of hand, you ought to remember what the, what the what the principal purpose which is to bring charges against people that you think you can prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. and if they don't have the evidence, they

don't want to charge him and see him acquitted. i mean, if if the political objectives to viz not have him elected to a second term as president, feeding into his narrative that he's persecuted. >> he was not charged, but i mean, what does it say that he is even part of the plot well, i think he had to be part of the plot. >> if there's any plot at all. but again, it there. we don't know what the grounds for not indicting and more, but it could well be they simply don't think they have enough evidence on him as opposed to the other defendants. >> so that hush money trial in new york is ongoing and obviously, lots of opinions about the substance of the trial. but trump's behavior leading up to it and around the trial is the subject of a lot of controversy, including a ruling that we're expecting from the judge in that case as well. he's under a gag order and he keeps allegedly violating it the choice for the judge now is monetary penalties or jail should jail be on the table well, i think what i would do i thought this sometime back. >> i don't know new york practice, but i've heard other

people suggested, so i'd like to endorse it if however, the judge i'd find him in contempt for some or all of the particulars that the prosecutors have brought, but i would withhold the penalty until after the jury verdict. that puts him on notice that the penalty could be severe and may have a greater into r4 him effect against trump for the rest of the trial than if they actually started parted imposing the penalties. again, i think the courts should not allow themselves to be played by donald trump he knows that he generates sympathy for himself if he shows you, just pour picked on donald trump, court shouldn't let him win that game. >> how so? >> well, i think that is what he's trying to do is pull it aside. as the court and i think the response could come by judicial posture that they're going to hold him in contempt, but not not not impose the penalty until they see what the jury but i mean, what a jail penalty, whether it comes now or later some somewhat argued

that's what trump really wants. >> yeah, i think there's something to that. i mean, i don't want to see trump re-elected. so let's keep our eyes on the prize of a favorite phase of jim baker's that he always used to tell me if the prize is keeping him from being elected don't don't let trump derangement syndrome lead you down a path of lawfare that'll help him get elected. >> i want to try to foreign policy. now, we're learning that the biden administration actually quietly delivered long range weapons to ukraine earlier this month, despite months and months of delays on that very question, there's more aid coming in that package that was just passed and signed by president biden but is it enough at this stage to help ukraine regained the momentum? can this war in your mind still be one? >> well, i think it can be, but, but look, we've had two years of strategic failure by the united states and nato, two years of endless debate. do we provide javelins? do we provide atacms? do we provide a abrams tanks? we provide m65. that's not a strategic way to fight a

war. and now we've got gridlock and actually some russian advances because of that, it's an excuse used by some republicans not to vote for the most recent aid package. my answer to that is just because you have an incompetent white house, which is how i judge their performance and ukraine is no reason to give up on basic american national security interest in the role of those republicans. the house speaker, mike johnson he delayed and delayed on getting this ukraine aid to a vote. he not so long ago said this should be secondary to dealing with the border as if congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time. does he bear some responsibility for this delay? >> well, i think he produced the right result when he became speaker. i don't think any any sizable number of republicans in the house republican caucus would have said he's the next speaker of the house. he had a lot to learn and it took some time. that's true. >> but he did learn ukraine, didn't have that kind of time. and well, in part because of two years of inept policy by

the white house. >> but why did the crunch came johnson put his job on the line and to me, that's the real test in washington in a recent interview, has former house speaker nancy pelosi said, she believes that israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu should resign because of his opposition to a two-state solution. >> that's a view that senate majority leader chuck schumer also endorses. you've dealt with netanyahu now who you've seen his conduct in this war what are you saying well, i'm delighted on the one hand that democrats like chuck schumer and nancy pelosi have adopted regime change as an element of american foreign policy. >> it's too bad. they've got the wrong regime. they should be focused on the regime in tehran, not the one jerusalem. look, the israeli war cabinet has in it. >> one of the leaders of the opposition, benny gantz, who wants to be prime minister. >> know have golan, the defense minister, who also wants to be prime minister. it's not like bibi netanyahu has a free hand

even within the limits of the war cabinet. so i'm sure that the schumer pelosi political advice is well received in some parts of israel. i personally think it strengthens netanyahu. >> you think that now who's doing a good job? >> i think it's a mixed performance under very difficult circumstances, there will be a reckoning for the intelligence failure on october the seventh there was for goal to my ear after the yom kippur war. right now, they've still got a lot of work to do to win the war. >> all right, for my john bolton. thank you for it to be with hearing studio an arizona state house has finally voted to overturn the state's civil war abortion ban. that sounds that bill over to the senate. the leaving a 15th week limit in place. in the meantime, i'll speak with the states of governor katie hobbs about what comes next. >> there reject your vehicle was smart binders, custom fit, full coverage floor liners precisely engineered for a perfect fit rigid sidewalls

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breaking news this evening arizona prosecutors announced criminal charges against donald trump's allies in the state's 2020 fake electors case the former white house aide boris epshteyn, former chief of staff, mark meadows, john eastman, rudy giuliani are all about the indicted. >> now the nine counts against them range from conspiracy and forgery to engaging in fraudulent schemes. donald trump is also named as an unindicted coconspirator. in that case joining me now is arizona's governor katie hobbs, governor. thank you very much for joining us. i wonder what is your reaction to? >> the state's criminal charges now against trump allies, but also the decision not to trump to charge trump himself well, as secretary of state, i oversaw free fair secure elections in arizona and defended the votes of millions of arizonans. i am confident that attorney general mays

conducted a fair and impartial investigation and grand jury process. and now the justice system will do its job the alleged actions of these extremists are shameful. they undermine the election process in our state and i hope to see them held accountable i do want to turn now to a huge issue in your state, which is the big moment in the state legislature, the house and arizona voting to overturn that civil war era abortion ban. the truth is, most republicans in your state and the legislature's still support the law remaining on the books, only three voted with democrats so why do you think that today ultimately was different for the few who did cross over the party line to vote to repeal this law. >> well, i'm relieved that the house finally did the right thing and voted to repeal this 18, 64 ban, which i've been

calling on them to do even before the supreme court ruling, that reinstated that band. i've been calling for it since the dobbs decision i renewed that call in my state of the say, address in january i have no idea why it took this long. there have been untold levels of chaos and fear across the state since this supreme court decision. now the senate needs to vote to send this repeal to my desk. so we can get rid of this 18 64 ban once and for all. >> are you confident that that the senate will do that will sign it, will pass it and send it to your desk. >> well i have no idea why if they have supported this ban for as long as they have. so you'd have to ask them that. but i renewed my call again today to get this done and get it to my desk immediately. >> and once it is signed, how quickly would it take effect if it is repealed well,

unfortunately, it would not be immediate it would be at the end of the legislative session so there could be a period of time where this ban is actually in effect so that is incredibly unfortunate because it has already created untold levels of chaos and confusion around access to reproductive health care that's an important point. >> arizona governor katie hobbs, we do appreciate you joining us tonight thank you thank you very much for watching news night. laura coates live starts after this there's some things that work better together like your workplace benefits and retirement savings bowyer helps you choose the right amounts without over or under investing across all your benefits and savings options. >> so you can so confident in your financial choices they

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overturn the 2020 election and tensions are boiling over and pro-palestinian protests on campuses all across this country. we've got a live report part tonight, and laura coates live so imagine for the second, if hollywood came up with the plot, i'm going to tell you about the presumptive republican nominee for president of the united states goes on trial in his own hometown, she tried to falsifying business records to cover up some kind of a sex scandal and while he's there at the very same time, his lawyers go before the supreme court tried to get him out of two federal criminal trials that could frankly up and his chances at retaking the white house sound unbelievable. >> well, believe it. it's actually real life because it's exactly what's going to happen just a few hours from now tomorrow morning and trump, he can't be in two places at the same time. in fact, he hasn't even have a choice in the matter of where he gets to be as a criminal defendant. he's got to sit the m