you numb that's right. his thunder loves soda again >> the whole story with anderson cooper sunday getty on cnn >> tonight, too big and important headlines out of michigan joe biden and donald trump win. but the numbers hint that they are both well wounded away they can cost them the presidency. welcome to cnn special coverage. i'm laura coats and washington dc and i'm abby phillip in new york, the 2024 presidential matchup looks more and more locked in tonight. donald trump winning michigan's republican primary, and joe biden winning michigan's democratic primary. but both are showing real weaknesses with voters that they will need come november for joe biden, are voters just mad about his handling of the

war in gaza or are they mad enough to stay home when it matters most >> well for donald trump, you can ask the very same question, abby, will republicans coalesce around his campaign? in november? >> or will the third of the party who keep voting for someone not named donald trump to affect to the incumbent abby, let's go straight to harry enten at the magic wall for the latest from michigan. so harry, what are we seeing so far where are we are in this process? about 41% in right now as we hit a level mcleod, yeah, a little bit of a slow count here, but look, donald trump way up on nikki haley, 67%, nikki haley's 28%. you can see the map here. it's all donald trump red. of course there are some areas where donald trump is struggling a bit more. let's go all the way down. let's see if i can hit it. there we go. >> this is where ann arbor, the university the of michigan is well educated area. you can see here a much closer race, 52% of the vote to 43% of vote, about 86% of the vote in. but look

how few votes there are, relatively speaking, only about 23,000. and if you were to zoom out, let's say we'll go we'll go up to the northern peninsula, right? let's go up here. let's go up here to chippewa county look at this. you see a much wider margin, 78%, 18%. we can go over here to mackinac county, again, 73% to 22%. so a very clear win for donald trump and harry. >> i mean, i want to just underscore what you just said there. what you were just showing was sort of excerpt county. this is a part of michigan. the suburbs detroit suburbs of lansing, suburbs of grand rapids. suburban voters. that's where he's going to struggle the most. >> and that's exactly right. why don't we go to kent county, right? gerald ford, kent county, again, 26% of the vote and donald trump, again doing more poorly there with 56% of vote to nikki haley's 36% of one other thing i just want to point on the rub public inside abby is, you know, we've had a bunch of contests so far, you know, a michigan right now, we're seeing trump doing very,

very well. he's doing better there than he did in south carolina. and he's doing better there then certainly he did in new hampshire where you only got 54% of the vote. so this is donald trump's best night of the campaign so far with nikki haley, also on the ballot in a state and harry, what about the democrats? what's happening on the democratic side? we've been looking very closely at this uncommitted vote. where is this number headed? yeah, 41,000 at this 0.41014%, i will note that barack obama, when he was back on the ballot in 2012, he uncommitted in the michigan primary it was 11%. so this is doing slightly better than that. but not overwhelmingly better. let's go back down here. let's go back down to ann arbor, right? this is a place where with 53% of the vote uncommitted, it's doing significantly better. 21% of the vote. and you go back to 2020. this was a place where joe biden really struggled. bernie sanders got 45% of the vote, and that primary despite the fact that he only got 36% of the vote statewide. so the fact that it's doing better in

those well-educated, liberal areas, but it's not necessarily doing significantly better outside. and you know, you go to, let's say, again, the northern part of the state, what do we see here? we see 14% for uncommitted and less liberal area. we see it again, a peter iron county 11%. so it's really doing basically the same across the state. we're not seeing that big uncommitted vote as you might expect, if liberals were really upset about gaza, this just seems to be light and 43,000 is more than the uncommitted candidates or campaigns said that they would get democratic source. i talked to you tonight, said it could be well over 100,000 that would be enough to send a message to joe biden in a state that he won by 150,020, 20. >> he didn't he want it by less than three percentage points, but again, i will point out joe biden getting 80% of the vote, while if you look on the republican side, donald trump's getting just set 67% vote so as that intro sort of hinted at both candidates have their own weaknesses. >> absolutely. i mean, this is a pretty big chunk of the republican electorate right now, sending a message to

donald trump, harry enten. thank you very much, laura thank you. i want to bring in the campaign manager now of the movement behind tonight's uncommitted vote. listen to michigan layla elabed, who is also michigan congresswoman rashida tlaib, sister. i'm so glad that you are here with us to night. first of all, i wonder what your reaction to tonight's turnout is. and did you you send the message that you were hoping to send to president biden >> i mean, we are just overwhelmed by the fact that we were able to triple our margin of victory of the original 10,000 votes that we were hoping to leverage to send a clear they're in strong message to president joe biden, his administration, and the democratic party that we needed a permanent ceasefire now to save as many palestinian lives as possible in a leyla president biden, as you know, in recent days, he said that

israel's response in gaza has been quoting him over the top. he said just yesterday that he's hoping for a ceasefire by the end of this weekend what more do you need to hear from him specifically to go from uncommitted to committed to voting for him or is the concern that all of this is lip service or an election year >> yeah. >> we need more than just >> nice >> words and hope. we need a permanent ceasefire right now. >> at different times with the new york times, you had mentioned this and you said the very bare minimum that biden needs to do to get the vote is to completely overhaul america's relationship with israel. demand a permanent end to hostilities and end american military aid to israel police as long as its war in gaza drags on. do you think that he would likely try to meet those expectations or are there some concessions electorally that you would see?

>> i think if joe biden wants to avoid a nail alienating his core base and his core constituency. he will listen to the uncommitted vote now and realize that he is going to be at risk. come november for handing essentially handing the white house over to trump. and he's going to be to be accountable to that? we went today, we voted michiganders use their ballot box as a humanitarian vote, as a protest vote to demand that our government and our president call for an immediate and permanent ceasefire, an end the military funding of our american taxpayer dollars commit a genocide in 2024 helped me follow this thread in terms of what would be the next frontier let's assume that he does not meet the expectations as you've laid out or what you've just described does that mean that the supporters of your particular uncommitted

movement is going to either going to stay home, will they vote for donald trump? >> well what i can say is this is that the uncommitted voters are not going to be voting in a monolith they are going to have to vote their conscience there are going to be groups, voters within this movement that already feel deeply betrayed by biden and his administration for the fact that muslim americans and every americans have been directly affected by israel's aggression and collective punishment of palestinians and not only that, as democrats, we feel betrayed. because why are we risking our democracy to align ourselves with someone like netanyahu? it has right-wing government >> the idea and you are correct to describe the absence of a monolith when you're talking about any voting bloc that people often will look to it. i'll be curious to see what ultimately it will be the

decision of those voters voting their conscience, voting what they want. i want to mention that president biden just released a statement thanking michigan but did not mention the uncommitted what's your response >> i think that that is negligent on behalf of the president to once again, alienate the voices of his core constituency, largely who put him in support, who put him in the white house in 2020. because this community largely supported biden based on the promises that he made during his campaign trail. and we know that trump is not a friend to our community and we know that he is not a friend to the anti-war protests he's fire community. but right now, we are appealing to joe biden as our president to act now. >> before he risks >> losing his core constituency come november. >> but i want to focus on that. what does that mean to lose the

core constituencies that mean that although you just said that because it's you and see knows that donald trump is not a friend that causes that you describe. does that mean that the couch is now the third party candidate >> that means that we are we need to save as many palestinian israeli lives as possible and that we, this is a humanitarian vote. this is beyond politics. we, within the ceasefire movement, and we use our ballot box as a protest vote in order to save as many lives as possible. and to end this unchecked and unconditional funding that the united states provided provides to israel to commit genocide using american taxpayer dollars the signal and the message that's being sent to president biden. i do wonder if knowing that he has not mentioned the constituency of uncommitted, whether the message has been received >> but what

>> about donald trump, who obviously is also looking at this, wondering if this will inert to his benefit at this point in time >> although the policy is adopted all trump, but he has professed and articulated, are those an improvement to what the biden administration is doing now >> like i said, i can't answer to every voter who voted uncommitted today. but what i can say is we use the primary as a way to tell joe biden his administration what we needed right now. we're not focused right now. what's going to happen in november, but what we do know is that voters are going to vote their conscience. and i don't know if voters will be able to pull their support behind a president that is complicit in genocide. as far as trump, i really, you know, i can't answer to every uncommitted voter, but i do know is that we don't expect our voters in michigan to stay

at home we do expect and we encourage our, our voters to come out and vote. and there are plenty important races that are going to be taking place in november, besides the presidential election. >> very true. thank you so much. clearly, the voter turnout has been there and a message has been sent. >> what >> will come next? thank you so much, layla elabed, abby fascinating interview, laura, thank you. let's turn to the panel here in new york. we've got republican strategist alice stewart, former white house senior policy adviser, ashley allison, former senior white house communications aide, jamal simmons and national political reporter for the new york times, astead herndon. ashley message sent perhaps message received because it seems like tonight that the story that you just heard they're being told from the ceasefire campaign is being told over and over again. that is the conversation they've wanted one i think it's great

that people are engaging in this primary and in this democracy. i think the most important thing is you go out and vote in a primary. you care about what's happening in this country and that in a whole is a good thing. i think that the biden campaign will need to assess, but it's not just the campaign and sit administration because they're the ones actually dictating the policy here. i think that they should really consider coming out. now, biden said a couple days ago that he thinks is his buyer could come towards the end of the week if that doesn't happen, they might want to consider coming out in full force and actually saying it is time for a ceasefire. and that is not just saying it is time for a ceasefire for israel, it is time on both sides. this is not your time, hamas too. but to rally your troops to go and attack israel again, hamas and israel, you need a ceasefire and we need to get the hostages back. i think that after that in this moment right now, i would urge the campaign not to lead with the alternative was donald trump. that is not resonating with people they know what the alternative that seems to be aware what the alternative is. their

>> community was the first, some of the first people to be attacked by donald trump. i talked to one of the uncommitted voters earlier and he said to me, or she said to me we voted for donald trump because we want it something different. and now we are telling joe biden, we want him to be different. and if he isn't, we will make us decision about who we vote. mean they voted for joe biden miscues me. they voted for joe biden because they want it done. right. so here's here's my question. i mean, ashley makes the observation she thinks maybe we're getting close to a time where joe biden needs to endorse a ceasefire would that be enough for arab muslim voters in michigan based on your reporting? >> i mean, not a singularly, and i think that's partially because the political damage, as we see tonight, has been laid over a set of months. these are folks who are been consistently calling for the president to be more vocal on this issue it's due to lead or to even acknowledge the consistency of the criticism.

and they have chosen not to do those things. i think that if even if there were to be a ceasefire, you still see lingering kind of a holdover feelings. i think feed into a larger perception of biden as out of touch with the base. now that is expressed here among there, but muslim community that's expressed among young people among the different way doesn't surprise among black voters in a different way, but it's a larger feeling of a disconnect between but between administration and base by two things, the political question is connected to the policy question here, right? like they were using the system to make a statement about what the biden campaign is doing right now in terms of its support connection to israel. and i think the biggest critical political factor here is what do they need next on the policy front? and if there is a messaging question, can they find themselves responding to the expression of pain that these folks are consistently telling them there's a separate way as an aside from endorsing a ceasefire that they can speak to these communities and they haven't chosen to do that so far. >> yeah, look, this is the crux of the question. i mean as somebody who worked in the white house, when you hear what

a leyla elabed just said, which was not just a ceasefire. they want the end of us aid to israel. that would be the equivalent of a category five hurricane hitting us foreign policy let's see. byd isn't even possible to, for biden to deliver on that >> i don't think anybody in the white house is thinking about changing our entire relationship with israel, right israel's democracy in the middle east. so we've got allies keep are looking at the united states to see if we stand by. our allies are signals to china and russia. this is a very complex conversation i think what's interesting about the votes tonight, as i'm watching this, a couple of things. one, you see what these boats are coming from washington county, which is basically ann arbor, which is university of michigan. i'm seeing a lot of very highly information voters who were there. you see dearborn, dearborn heights. i'm from michigan. dearborn. dearborn heights. lot of arab arab american, palestinian the un american voters who are, it looks like that number is like way overwhelming. >> and that makes a lot of

sense, right? that that's where it should come from. now, what's not happening is i was on the phone with some of my low information voter relatives in the last 24 hours. and i said, how do you feel about being uncommitted? uncommitted to what? there are african americans who are in the city of detroit, which are a big chunk of the biden vote, who aren't there. but will be much more concerning to me because this is a little bit of a low risk protest because the democratic primary you actually, voting for donald trump. if you vote for uncommitted, it's a different question when you get to the fall well, what would have been more concerning is that these voters voted for dean phillips. now, if these voters have voted for dean phillips, there would be our fire alarm inside the white house right now and everybody would be out of that building and they'd be out in the campaign making this thing happen. >> and then look, i'll let you jump in definitely. but donald trump right now is battling bring back nikki haley you know, by 2030 points, joe biden is still winning by a very comfortable margin and to

jamal's point, dean phillips, the guy who's actually running against him can't get beyond 5%. >> but that's not going to change and jamal saying this is a low-risk protests, it is. look, i think this is not exactly a profile encouraged when you're encouraging people to go out and vote uncommitted. and i primary. now if they really wanted to send the message to joe biden, they would take this all the way through november and say that we're going to do a protest vote or sit on the couch in november, they're not going to do that. and she mentioned that in our conversation with laura. >> but >> if they were to carry this through november for this would be a huge concern for joe biden. look, those numbers we're seeing right now, 46,000 michigan people voted uncommitted. >> that >> that's a significant number in 2020 election. joe biden beat donald trump by around 150,000 in 2016, hillary clinton lost to donald trump by around ten in thousands. so 10,000 votes could sway the difference if these uncommitted voters keep this passion going through to november, it could be a huge warning sign and a

big problem for joe biden. i'm not certain they're going to do so, but we heard also from debbie dingell congresswoman from michigan earlier. she has been sounding the alarm to this administration quite some time. we have to address the situation. the arab muslim community in michigan is crying out for this. and the younger community in michigan is doing so as well. if he is going to really address this situation, he needs to do something much more serious than throwing out up possibility of a ceasefire in an ice cream shop. it must be much more organized and it has to include a ceasefire and releasing the hostages. >> i mean, what happens on the ground is incredibly consequential. worth noting though debbie dingell has been sounding the alarm even before this, so it could be issues compounded on one another. everyone stick around for us. laura, really so fascinating to think about the risk and the low-risk or not we're going to discuss the results on the republican side next though. and why donald trump, while he's also showing some vulnerabilities plus a showdown really is brewing over the

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the future of soda is now and it's called poppy. >> i'm arlette saenz at the white house >> and this is cnn >> donald trump winning the michigan primary tonight continuing his sweep against nikki haley. and there are some big primary days in the weeks ahead. and then senior data reporter, harry enten is at the magic wall again for us with what to expect. so harry, what does the schedule look like after tonight? there's a big day coming up? on tuesday. yeah. there's a big day. look, this primary calendar has been very slow to develop, right? or was i then new hampshire then it felt like for ever to get the south carolina and then the michigan but i will tell you that we're about to go on steroids. we're about to hit the highway i95. my goodness, gracious. cumulative delegates, a lot of all right. saw on the republican side hi, just 6% by next tuesday, just seven days from now, it's going to be

upwards to near a majority, 50% by march 12, 14 days are now two weeks. it's going to be a clear majority, 56%, and 21 days from now, look at this we're going to be upwards of 71% of all delegates allotted. i will note that tonight in michigan, in fact, we're not allowing any of the delegates because michigan decided to do something a little bit weird on the gop cyber, they're also going to have a state convention this weekend where most of the delegates will be a lot. but next tuesday, we're going to have a ton of delegates be allotted here's something to keep in mind that's key, abby, most of the gop contest after tonight are either going to be winner-take-all with winter gets all of the delegates or it's going to win or winner take most with a winner will get most, if not all of the delegates. so a lot of delegates will be allotted very quickly to the winners of these upcoming primaries. yeah. i mean, it's basically a snowball facts that could be happening here. so when it comes to donald trump and how quickly he can get to the nomination, what does it look like? >> yeah. so, you know, as we

pointed out, winner take all, winner take most, a lot of contexts. let's go to super tuesday are two big prizes california and texas. look at the polling here donald trump dominating california. look at this a 40 point lead. he get all the delegates out there way more than 100 delegates. how about in texas? winner take most 80% of the vote to just 19% for nikki haley. so the two biggest prizes on super tuesday, looking very good for donald trump. and this is part of something that we're seeing in calendar going forward because it tonight in michigan, you know, nikki haley's getting about a little less than a third of the vote. that ain't likely to happen. a lot of states going forward because take a look at the choice for gop nominee nationally, quinnipiac university of recent poll. look at this, 80% of the vote for donald trump, just 17% for nikki haley, market university law school poll. look here, 73% vote for donald trump, just 15% for nikki haley. so california and texas next tuesday, very large leads for donald trump. it's part of a larger pattern where we're

seeing very large leads for donald trump nationally. he's going to get a lot of delegates going forward at this polling. >> plus b, harry to play devil's advocate. it seems like donald trump has been underperforming his polling and a lot of these states. so if you're nikki haley, you're probably looking at that and hoping that that's what maybe so. >> but donald trump would really have to underperform his calling for nikki haley anywhere near where she needs to go go forward. >> that's right. all right. harry enten. thank you very much, laura. >> point taken, abby. thank you so much to talk about the republican primary now, i don't want to bring in my fabulous panel we've got cnn contributor lulu garcia-navarro, bloomberg political and policy columnist nia-malika henderson, cnn political commentator karen finney, and republican strategist shermichael singleton i am dying to hear what each of you has to say about this because what we're seeing tonight, yet another race and yes, trump was successful. but to abby's point, i mean, he could have been more definitive in his win. lula me ask you about this because he was expected to win. nikki haley is saying, look, i

already told you super tuesday is where i'm going. she's vowing to stay in the race she is going to stay in the race. i have long said, i'm not exactly clear who is her constituency in the republican party. i mean, this is the thing, this is a republican primary and we've seen her be very strong with independence. we've seen her be very strong with people who identify within the republican party as moderates or liberals no exactly who they are, but apparently they are people who supported nikki haley. >> and >> yet and yet here we are. and you see that polling and you see that she has no path going forward. and so all the speculation is what if something happens to donald trump what if the legal issues come over and throw him out of the race? the problem problem with that is i'm not convinced that nikki haley is the person that they're going to turn to. and so at this point, she is someone that the never trumpers really like. but you know, how many election cycles do we have to go through where we build up the never trumpers only to see

them really fail. >> i mean, you're right in nevada, didn't she lose none of the candidates? none of the above can of the above. >> i think in talking to trump to biden voters, which were key part of biden's victory in 2020. those are the haley voters, right there, sort of never trumpers or once trumpers and now more like buying it and i think nikki haley, you what's going to happen to nothing is going to happen to donald trump that he's likely going to be the nominee is something happening to donald trump right now, right. is she weakening him in this contest? she's sort of gotten some momentum, i think in terms of her message, you see some of that she was on cnn or earlier this month? morning talking about him as the chaos candidate, saying he's too old, saying he can't when she sounds like a democrat, right? i just i don't want to say one thing. i just want to say one thing which is what we've seen with nikki haley is that actually she's pulling worse among republicans the longer this goes on. >> problem for her. she's been

saying that for a while now now, people just are not buying it. she has not won the state. she has so far behind in the delegate count. she has so few delegates. >> she won't even have any >> power at the gop convention to make anything like she can't even try to negotiate for something. >> i think. but i think the nikki haley effect xi is a container for republicans who do not like trump and possibly rule vote for joe biden >> that's a great platform in the container. that's not that are not not going to bring up yeah. go ahead. finish your thought. i think that's the point. is >> that people are maybe you're i mean, i have a cousin who lives in south carolina. he's a democrat. he voted for nikki haley just because he thought it would be fun and i sort of said, what did you think you accomplish with that? but okay. >> i don't see momentum. she's polling at 27.2%. this is terribly bad. you look at a quarter sure. of republican voters that have voted for nikki haley, but never

trumpers. you look at the last presidential election, 2020, about half of those quote, unquote, never trumpers actually voted for donald trump. i am not convinced that a plethora of them will all of a sudden vote for biden now some will vote for biden, but i think that's more like around 15% quantitatively speaking, with that said nikki haley, she has not in my opinion convince republican voters as she's the alternative. and let's just say something magically happens to donald trump tomorrow. you still have 60% of republican voters who are saying, we don't want nikki haley, we're not going to vote for nikki haley. >> well, tonight, you the same, i want to play for a second. and what she had to say because she says it looked on trump is not bringing people in. he's pushing them out. listen >> ever since >> donald trump became president, they've lost the governor's mansion. they've lost the state house. they've lost the state senate. it is a problem he's now bringing people into the party. he's pushing people out of the party.

>> she's talking about michigan yes. >> the party. but here's >> here's the problem that she has with that message. again, people aren't buying it. >> the republican party >> made that devil's bargain back in 20 16 because remember, previously they did the big autopsy and they were going to be more friendly to women. and then we're going to be more friendly to minorities and try to be trying to broaden their coalition and then with trump, they said, oh, okay, we were not gonna do that for awhile, will just stick with a narrowing so they've already made that bargain people into the party. i mean, trump brought a lot of people into the vote count, went up in 2020, again at the time is six. >> so i mean, they didn't let me let me hear me. >> but this is the this is the but this is the this is the kind of conundrum of donald trump, which is he brings people and he has shifted the party, the base looks completely different than it did in 2016. >> but at the other hand, you have >> a lot of people that he's

repelled, like suburban women who are a huge part of the democratic coalition at this point. and i think the pinto that's why we're seeing this on a knife's edge the whole time. >> but i think the people who are supporting her, they i agree with shermichael. they will be more likely to vote for joe biden because she's reminding them that you're not going to be for trump. and if you're not virtra and here's the reality though that's how we want in 2022 calls on. you have to put together a coalition of african american voters, young voters, never trumpers moderates, independents, the base that's how they're going to have to put together the coalition to arm comes out and says, i support donald trump. i'm endorsing donald trump. i'm going to go and campaign you for donald trying i believe that's going to happen. >> it doesn't matter because i've talked to some of these voters who will republican voters whose identity now is locked into been a never trump after he can't stand his character victims ever said that is not a small amount of

peep that's deal. >> but i that i'm looking at a battleground straight state strategy for the former president. i'm looking at georgia. i'm looking at nevada. i'm looking at wisconsin. i'm looking at arizona. these are all states at the former president lost by 33,000 votes, some 12,000 votes bear barely difference. i'm not really concerned about michigan gop biden can win michigan. donald trump can lose michigan when those four states and still return back to the white house. so this idea that nikki haley's somehow pulling in 30% i'm not convinced of that, but he says five to 10% because it's going to be an election and hold on. let me >> ask the question though, because i literally you made the point there beginning about the big what-ifs it's and way she's hanging on track my nikki haley hanging on because of the what-ifs. i mean, the what-ifs includes some federal indictment. they include some state prosecutions at the very least. right. so the one is an issue. so would this be a politically naive moved to say either a, i'm hanging in there

for that reason to give me as she says, a non soviet choice style i'm an election or is it possible that she's not thinking about 20:28 as a republican, she's thinking about right now, no labels >> i mean, this is a huge speculation that somehow she's going to make this no labels push i don't believe it i haven't heard anything that suggests it she is a committed republican. we've seen a lot of people floated as the no labels candidate. and that group has not really shown itself to have a lot of legs. >> find ourselves that the no labels candidate will in effect elect donald trump. that's right. >> full stop. if you look at but their math, it does not add up to half. >> i agree with that. i do >> i think this is it for nikki haley in terms of her national political career. >> this is it. there's no chance for her in 2028, even if something legally were to happen to donald trump, i'm not convinced at a plethora of his voters was suddenly go to nikkihaley, i think ron desantis would have a better chance i get in the majority of

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cardiologist recommended form of coke uten kunal, the brand i trust this room with wolf blitzer tomorrow with six on cnn >> or write a showdown is set for tomorrow as democratic senator tammy duckworth will dare her republican colleagues to unanimously passed for legislation that would protect it access to fertility treatments like ivf. this of course, after the alabama supreme court's decision that frozen embryos are children, a ruling that has the gop and full on damage control. duckworth legislation is actually expected to fail by the way, in the house, republican congresswoman nancy mace is unveiling a non-binding

as illusion to express support for ivf babies, reportedly trying to build consensus for her own ivf related legislation. we've got harry enten, he's back with us at the magic wall with more on what voters are really thinking about this important issue, harry, how do americans feel about that? >> yeah, i mean, look, laura, the fact that there's actually very little polling on it because i don't think a lot of pollsters thought to ask this question before the supreme court ruling from alabama came down. >> but this >> is all tied together with abortion rights, ivf, and abortion rights. obviously after the overturning of roe v. wade, which sort of paved the way that alabama, alabama supreme court ruling. look, we have had seven ballot measures on abortion rights since july 2022 when roe v. wade was overturned, >> look at this, look at this on every single one of those ballot measures, the pro-abortion sites ride one vermont 77%, a very blue state. but look at kentucky not so much of a blue state, 52%. and obviously in ohio back last november 57% of that vote one.

now, we do have a little bit of polling on ivf americans who believe that procedure is morally wrong. abortion, despite the fact that abortion does very well in those ballot measures, 49% of americans said that abortion was morally wrong in the last poll that we had an ivf back in 2013, look at ivf though, just 12% of americans believed that ivf fertilization is wrong. so the fact is ivf much more popular than abortion, which is proven to be quite popular in a lot of ballot measures, laura. >> so how might this all play obvious, looking forward to 2024 election? because again, yet another unexpected issue that the candidates are having to grapple with based on a court ruling. >> yeah anything that is related to abortion rights as some please, the ground that donald trump would be much more interested talking about the economy, because trust biden or trump more on the economy, trump has a 20 point lead. look at abortion biden's lead is eight point, a much better playing ground for him. of course, the real question is how will this be in voters minds on that midterm election back in 2022? 52% of voters

said that abortion was extremely important to their vote. now, it's down to just 42%. and a recent cnn poll back in november of 2023. so i think the question is, does these rulings like those coming out of alabama on ivf change that and make importance go up. democrats would surely welcome that laura harry enten. thank you, abby. of course, you interviewed congressman matt gaetz about this issue and pardon, he talked about the risk of having the conflation between abortion and ivf notable because he's a very conservative republican. who he said that donald trump follow the next day and the rest is history. republicans distancing themselves now from this ivf ruling. laura back with my panel here in new york, ashley that question that harry just posed at the end, there is the the abortion issue that ivf issue is this a waning issue or is it something that democrats

can continue to keep alive? >> oh, it's definitely something that democrats can keep alive through the 2024 election because women still have lost this constitutional right to have bodily autonomy. and until it is either codified through congress or it won't be able to work its way probably up to the court to reinstate roe. it's an issue that we can campaign on many states in this election are considering ballot measures around abortion i love the fact that there is a bill coming up to onto the floor of the senate to see if republicans will support it because just this week, there rnc put out a memo telling their candidates to support ivf. so you can talk the talk, you can put it in a memo. now but here's the reality. look, republicans and conservative republicans are pro-life. that's why we've advocated for years to overturn roe v. wade and put this in the hands of people at the state level and look, you haven't found republicans coming out against ivf, that in fact donald trump

and gaetz and others have said they support this. but in terms of duck force legislation that she's planning to put forth, republicans are not going to be in support of this. they think this should be handled again at the state-level, just like abortion. debate will come forth in washington tomorrow, talking about federal protections for ivf, which democrats will support and republicans saying, look we support ivf. we understand there are many couples, many families that cannot conceive a child without this, and they support this. but this needs to be handled at the state level and look, this is, this is don't you think there's like mixed messages being sent here? i mean, you have all these candidates pretty much everybody is who's running for the presidency, including donald trump, supports a national ban at some point, not to mention they're totally fine with the supreme court ruling for the entire country banning abortion. it and they have a national ban. lindsey graham right after roe introduced a

national ban, contradictory to the point you just made, saying that they would put it in and again, they're not saying the quiet part out loud. they're hoping that donald trump could win so that they can implement their entire, but they understand the political consequences of the fact that roe v. wade has been overturned and trump has even mentioned that much to the chagrin of pro-life activists across the country, because as harry mentioned, every time abortion has been on the ballot at the state-level, the pro-abortion movement has won, and republicans recognize that. and we also recognize that this is an issue again, that should be handled at the state level, and they also understand and that joe biden and democrats would much rather be talking about the abortion issue than the economy, than the border. then national security, then crime in the streets. these are issues that he is underwater on against donald trump, and they would much rather be talking about abortion again from a political standpoint, it makes sense because it works for democrats, said to you think but the biden administration has actually effectively used abortion as a powerful of an

issue as it is to their benefit. >> i think they have tried, they have certainly deployed you know, the kind of messaging gone and they've deployed the vice president on the issue, but i really don't think it comes down to them, you know, because the stakes of this are so visceral that when it is on the ballot in the state level, when there is a contrast between the candidates, we have seen voters react to that almost every single time. and so if you're the biden campaign, you are certainly at a better advantage when this election is about anything other than the person at the top. and you know that abortion is the most potent issue on this. i think republicans have put themselves in a pickle of their own creation he shouldn't be the evangelical pro-life wing that is captured. they'll specifically the legal arm of the republican party and really driven the party on this issue is out of step with where majority of americans are. we continue to see that pop up in state after state after state. and so when you have the reason that senator duckworth can do this on the senate floor. the reason why this continues to be something that gives democrats hope for november is because republicans have kind of

haven't even decided where they want to go, going forward to your point, they are embracing a national ban on and there they are winged of evangelicals forces that only two candidates, donald trump, is in a pickle, even though he sounds much different than mike huckabee or ted cruz i don't like whack-a-mole to because they never know when one of the judges that they put on a state court or whatever is going to rule in a way that is going to put abortion right back on the front pages. >> absolutely. republican judges want to get rid of ivf. the republican judges tried to get rid of your right to abortion we had a senate vote on contraception that republic what can senators wouldn't vote for some republicans, anderson vote for they're just wrong on this actual gender politics of his era. and it is going to bite them in the, but again, in 2024, the same way did in 2022, you asked that the administration was using this effectively. i will tell you i was in the administration during the midterms, the 2022, the vice president night his taste talked about this three or four days a week. we traveled the country. she was very out front on it as she

helped set the tone for every other democrat about how to talk about it. and democrats, basically, one or tie that election when they were supposed to get some more indians in arizona referendums in florida for november drive people even without when i was talking to as the mifepristone case, that's coming up happiness supreme court in june, going into conventions these and going into presidential debates, where people are going to have to say, do you want contraception, do you want the availability to the abortion pill? because most women who have to experience an abortion use mifepristone out of our bedrooms. >> guide doctors offices the leaders guys, i totally in my mind meld over here. you know, when i when i interviewed the democratic governor's last week, they talked about that actively putting these issues on the ballot and actively making judges an issue on the ballot in their states. and at the local level, we got to leave it there for this it's conversation for a moment, but stick around for us. coming up. president biden, delivering a stark warning to israel

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today. i'm taylor available now on the apple app store sure android and m. taylor.com >> united states of scandal with jake tapper on sunday night on cnn >> a resounding message for the white house, despite friends biden winning the michigan primary thousands of voters staging a protest vote against biden stands on the israel gaza war by voting uncommitted. the big question is tonight to turn out a symptom of a much larger problem for democrats more broadly, joining me now, congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz of florida. thank you so much for joining me this after this evening. it's late in the evening. think at this point. >> thank you. congresswoman democrats have now 59,000 plus reasons and counting, i would

add to figure out how to keep this protest vote from how people stay home in november has the message of this protest been received? >> well, i think it's important to note a couple of critical elements of the turnout here today. the michigan secretary of state, for example, is predicting that there'll be about 1 million democrats voting today at when all is said and done and the fact that that many people in a primary that is essentially uncontested turned out shows the enthusiasm and the determination that michigan democrats want to reelect joe biden particularly based on in the number of the things that you were talking about in the last interview. i mean, michigan voters very clearly in resoundingly are pro-choice, want to make sure that reproductive freedom is maintained its support are supportive of joe biden lists, particularly manufacturing jobs

he's created. his record is remarkable and i think that that will show in the november election. the other thing that's important to note, laura, is that if you look at president obama's 2012 reelection results, uncommitted, we're we're in double digits and about five or six states so joe biden is actually doing quite a bit better here than then, even when president obama had uncommitted results in his, in his march two reelection in 2012 >> certainly uncommitted as a concept is not novel and it was a factor for trump. it was a factor for obama to factor for incumbent presence, as you see right now. but there is a needle that has to be threaded because as i was speaking to one of our guests about the why behind the uncommitted she spoke of it as being a humanitarian protests, not so much about politics and the longer, so it's really hard to understate, overstate at one point of how important michigan is to biden's reelection, but also the question, how does he support israel and keep the

coalition that he needs to win in a state like michigan well, i mean, i think it's really important to remind people that october 7 you had the worst attack and >> the most murders of jews in the world since the holocaust. and that 1,200 plus jews were slaughtered by a terrorist organization, hamas 240 were taken hostage to 134 of those are still held hostage. and this could end today. if hamas does exactly what they should do, which is released the hostages and it's also important to know that the palestinians in gaza are also victims of hamas. this is a tragedy, an epic tragedy that has been perpetrated on the people of gaza. and the people of israel by a terrorist organization, hamas laser therapy. >> certainly the idea of addressing the death toll and

what is being experienced. those who remain as hostages and those who were confined to the area is part of what is behind the protests that humanitarian discussions that really has to be tackled in terms of what goes next and what happens next. i do want to point out to you that there is some new reporting by our cnn global affairs analyst, barak ravid and he is reporting tonight that the biden administration is giving israel until mid-march, which is two weeks away, really, to commit in writing to abide by international law by using u.s.-made weapons. and here's the consequences. they don't if they don't, those weapons will the transfers will then be paused. i wondering, should the us consider pausing military aid if this reporting is true? >> laura, it's important to note that that that instruction that guidance is part of the memorandum that the administration just released its memorandum 20 and i mean, it is already us law at that we

expect that our international partners, particularly those that get us assistance, abide by international law. i mean, of course we want them to do that. and that memo indicated not only for israel, but other countries and conflict that they would have 45 days to get that information turned over to the united states to secretary blinken, particularly and other countries not in conflict would have 180 days. this is not a remarkable or exceptional policy. of course, we want our international partners to abide by international law. and israel is one is the country in the world that has the most compliance with international law that endeavors aggressively to notify that civilians who are in harm's way when they are going to engage in a military action? that they should get out of harm's way provides

pathways to do that. and what does the masto hamas uses their own people as civilian shields so that because, that because the pain, the tragedy, and the killing is the point with hamas. because as they said, just after october 7, that was the first attack. and there would be a second to third and the thousands attack. and i think it's also important to note that there's a harvard-harris poll out today that shows that 82% 68% of the american people are supportive of israel at 2% are supportive of israel being able to defend themselves. and that hamas is at 18 so i mean, that's important perspective because of course americans oppose terrorism support beat people being able to defend themselves against it. >> it is important perspective as is the point that there are those including president biden, who have criticized a

response that would go over the top, or at somehow undermine the expectations of compliance with international law. that is the crux of that issue. and the notion of removing that aid or pausing it. last question for you, congresswoman tonight's uncommitted vote. frankly, i mean, that's not the only wrinkle for democrats. rfk junior is getting his name on some key swing state ballots ahead of a general election. i'm talking about in arizona and georgia so far, i mean, you were the former head of the dnc when you look at that traction, how big of a problem is this for the democrats >> i'm confident that from now until november, we're going to mount the most significant reelection campaign that that any, any presidential reelection campaign has ever run they're going to run on joe biden's remarkable record of job creation the most in modern times, investments and infrastructure they just, they just announced $50 million that

are coming from the infrastructure bill to my district at fort lauderdale airport, hollywood international airport at $1.1 billion, came to our community for everglades serration. this is happening all over the country and voters are going to go to the polls and reward, though biden because the chaos and pain that would return if donald trump were present, including a muslim ban that he committed to reinstate as soon as he as he takes office again that's the kind of stark contrasts that voters are going to reject. returning to trump, the trump days and make sure that the better days ahead will continue with joe biden well, we shall see if those committed votes are uncommitted votes will translate to commitment to joe biden as right now >> there seems to be something to be said for those statements already congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz. thank you so much. >> thank you. laura. >> cnn's continuing coverage of the michigan primary starts

right now >> too big. stories and two big victories to the surprise of absolutely no one joe biden wins michigan and donald trump also wins the republican contests in michigan but biden's big challenger right now is uncommitted. significant numbers of voters are angry with him, angry enough about his handling of gaza to send a message with a protest vote. and they're vowing that these numbers will grow. welcome back. top of the hour to our live special coverage. i'm abby philip in new york >> i'm laura coates in washington, dc, amid what looks like an extra double march to another biden-trump contest in november. donald trump is facing another kind of protest vote. thousands of people who, even though they may be can

read the writing on the wall, writing that says donald trump we'll likely be the republican nominee. >> and i'm voting for just him >> or for him. they vote for nikki haley. and of course, the big question tonight is, what does all of this tell us about november? let's go straight to harry enten, who's at the magic wall. although when he's there at the magical wall, he has the very latest from michigan, harry biden twins, but is showing some vulnerability right? >> that's exactly right. laura, look, i hope any time with me is a magical time. let's take a look, there you go, right at midnight here on the east. look, joe biden's getting any 1% blowing everybody else out of the water. the big question of course, is this uncommitted at 13%? and i want to put that in some historical perspective. are you back in 2012 where there wasn't this protest vote, barack obama in fact, was getting about. let's see if i can do it. a 11% or excuse me, uncommitted was getting about 11% against barack obama in that michigan primary. so right now on committed getting 13.4%,

just slightly greater than the percentage that course obama got. and i want to sort of zone in on the areas where uncommitted is doing well, all right, let's go down to the southeast part of the state. all right. wayne county, detroit uncommitted. they're getting 16% of the vote, only 27% of the vote in some of that is dearborn where there's of course, a large arab american population were uncommitted is doing significant secondly, better, in fact, getting about a majority of the vote. the last i looked, but over on the county, just 16%. how about some other places where it's doing well, how about let's go to lansing lansing, michigan ingram counting east lansing, of course, michigan state university. a lot of college-educated vote their uncommitted getting a little less than 18% of the vote. but of course, only 23% of the vote but in there, or how about let's go down here, we go. let's go. this is ann arbor the most well-educated part of the state, uncommitted getting nearly 20% of the vote, 61% of the vote. and i will note, if you go back to 2020 bernie sanders got 45% of the vote. there. joe biden just got 48%

of the vote, significantly worse then he did statewide with 53% of the vote uncommitted doing well, but not necessarily too well. laura that's the blue sides with their republican red. >> yeah. all right. so we went on the let say, let's go 2024. we're going to go to the republican side of the iri. what do we see here? we see donald trump was 68% of the vote considerably less than joe biden's 80% of the vote, right? so there's this question, okay. is the protest vote bigger on the democratic or republican side? nikki haley's getting 27% of the vote there. but of course, donald trump easily winning here. i should note there's a gop convention, not just a primary in the state of michigan where most of the delegates are in fact going to be allotted some of the delegates will be on a based upon this primary, but we're not exactly sure how we'll find out this weekend. where is donald trump not doing necessarily as well? well, let's go down to a familiar part of the state. let's go down again, the home of ann arbor, michigan university, university of michigan, excuse me, donald trump getting 53% of the vote. oh, we just jumped up to monro. let's go back. nikki

haley getting 42 for some of the vote there. but it most of the state, you go up to that upper peninsula. upper peninsula is my dear friend billy, who's producing reminded me of nikki haley just getting some 18% of vote, donald trump getting 78% overall. donald trump just doing very well. a michigan, he's doing considerably better there than he didn't. new hampshire where he got just 54% or if if you go to south carolina this past weekend, you saw donald trump got 60% of tonight, a michigan, he's doing considerably better than he's done in any of the primary so far, we're nikki haley was also on the ballot. laura harry enten, so smooth with the magic wall. somebody better wake up. john king, he's going to be upset. abby thanks, laura, joining me now, is abraham is he's the majority floor leader in the michigan house of representatives. and he is the highest ranking arab american lawmaker in the state. abraham, thanks for joining us. now, as you just heard there, over 60,000 uncommitted votes and counting, do you saying that

this sends enough of a message to the president and his campaign at this point >> i think that's a question that we're going to have to ask the biden campaign what we know is this. michigan is going to be a critical state in november, and there's a significant chunk of michigan voters that are antiwar pro-peace and want to see you and to the funding of israel's war crimes. and voters came out in with a lot of enthusiasm with that commitment and now the question has to be to president biden his campaign, what will they do to heed the call of these people that have come out and said, we are a pro-peace, anti-war movement that once our leaders it'll be better. it is not an undemocratic thing to demand that your leaders are better and that they do more to lead with moral clarity. and i even asked what tonight's results will demonstrate >> so let me ask you what happens next. your movement has a few demands a ceasefire, rebuilding gaza conditioning,

aid to israel. if president biden does not meet all of these demands, what comes next? what are you going to be advising the ceasefire movement supporters to do come november well, what we've seen is a ceasefire. enrollment will be able to have a voice this august by our indications, with looks like we will likely have enough votes in some capacity to send delegates to chicago to continue to push the call for peace, to push the call for a ceasefire and this is the right thing to do. you have seen nearly 15,000 palestinian babies murdered with us backed greenland weapons by netanyahu's regime. and there has not been no end in sight bible, what we see, and i think people are sick of it. people do not want this country to be funding wars that are killing innocent men, women, and children for over 140 days. so we have 140 days roughly until the august convention and we're going to keep pushing that

narrative because it is the right thing to do is the moral thing to do. and history will judge this moment as where did we stand as a nation when we saw all the carnage, all the chaos, and unfortunately the callous disregard of the palestine and in humans and all the babies that we have seen murdered over the last hundred and 40 days we want to see peace in that region. and the only way to do that is to stop funding any effort that is bombing innocent people. so a ceasefire is the baseline to continue towards that march, towards greater peace. >> and i just wanted to note, as you pointed out, about the delegates, the threshold for getting delegates in the state would be 15% right now, you haven't quite hit that. it's about 13% from the numbers that i'm looking at. but looking forward to the convention what does that look like? what does putting pressure on president biden look like at that convention in chicago >> we have we're going to explore every option, but i think you look at things like,

what is the party platform on sending military aid to israel? what will be the party's platform on addressing israel's war crimes? these are the conversations that we have heard over the last several weeks. and i want to point out this time committed campaign has only been around for 21 days and we have amassed a lot of support and a lot of grassroots enthusiasm for peace and we're going to take that to the convention. and i'll tell you, we have folks coming from other states, actually including arizona and georgia that said, what can we do in our states to push this propene war measure, that there will be on the floor of the convention >> i can't i >> can't really predict anything. what i will say as president biden has a message and has an opportunity in this moment to respond to that message that americans overwhelmingly want to see peace they want to see a ceasefire in michigan alone, nearly 75% of michiganders, not democrats, and 75% of michiganders want to see a ceasefire. so if michigan is a critical state in november, the

question will be, why not listen to something that's 75% of people want. i tell you as an elected official myself abby, if i was told 75% of my constituency wants something, and it's the right thing to do. there's no reason why i would not do it it to be to be fair to president biden. he said just yesterday, he's trying to push for a ceasefire. as soon as this weekend so right here, he said it just yesterday he said just yesterday. and i think that is the point we have seen 143 days of carnage, of chaos and callous disregard for humanity of the palestinians. and it was just yesterday and let's be very clear >> no, i don't think abraham i don't think that that's necessarily fair to say. i mean, the white house has been encouraging a cessation of fighting in exchange for hostages, which i presume you want the hostages returned to. i don't think it's fair to say that it was yesterday was the

first time that that was something that was voiced >> well, i'll i'll say this for about 100 days. we did not see any conversation around the palestinians and their pain and suffering so much so that ana hundred day mark of this conflict, the white house did not release a single message, even dignifying the palestinians and the pain and suffering they went through. we want peace and we want peace for israelis, and we want peace for palestinians. the question is, will we have leaders that will heed that call an usher that piece forward, and you cannot do that by funding in bombs to a regime that is hellbent on wiping the palestinians out from gaza, as we've seen demonstrated through the 80% of the civilian infrastructure that has been destroyed. a 30,000 dead, 2 million displaced, and nearly 100,000 that are still missing or presumed dead. so the numbers do not lie. >> and what we hope to do who is showing that the numbers tonight will demonstrate that this president has an

opportunity to lead with moral clarity and say, we will change course before november. we will change course to save lives and we will change course to usher in an antiwar pro-peace democratic big ten so that we can defeat the danger in november all right, michigan state house majority floor leader, abraham, i ash. thank you very much for your time tonight. laura >> really fascinating conversation. thank you, abby, i want to bring in my panel right now and talk about this now, we haven't going through the numbers and of course the data and the election results are can you to come in. >> but this is >> significant for biden and more decisive than say what trump has led by over nikki haley yet and still uncommitted. >> this is nothing to sneeze at. there is a message that has been sent. >> well, absolutely. but one thing i will say it looks like an oakland county which is high proportion of it's got detroit, where you have african american voters, joe biden won almost every precinct. so i think that's actually, that's when you're thinking about 20:24 in

november. that's something you want to see, but absolutely. they sent a very important signal and it was interesting today as our correspondents were talking to people, they made the point, they weren't necessarily voting against joe biden, but they wanted to send a message. they wanted people to understand how powerfully they deeply people feel. what's interesting about those numbers that we just had up. i think it was 13.8%. if they are able to get to 15% by, by dnc committed, i'm committed if uncommitted, disabled to get to fifth team percent by our democratic party rules, they would be able to accrue delegates and what's out, what's meaningful about that is if other states also do this undo uncommitted and make that 15% threshold. then you're talking a decent amount of potentially decent amount of delegates what did they do with that? do they take that to the to the convention? do they try to influence policy when we go through what's called the

platform could process, which is basically the policies of the party going into the convention. so that's something to watch, is sort of what are they organized enough to take this when and then what will they do with it? this is something that i think is really interesting because i'm a former middle east correspondent. i spent a lot of time in the middle east and i understand that what they're asking for now is a ceasefire. but i can tell you that that's not going to be the end of things because once you have a ceasefire, first of all, it's going to be temporary because they're still negotiating secondly we haven't really had access to gaza, but once international film crews get in there and see the damage and get to talk to the people you're going to have a lot of people who get there news from social media, young people who are seeing this war for the a war that they haven't seen this before for the first time. all these images replaying over and over again. i just don't think that this issue is going to go

away for the administration. i think it's going to perhaps you know, really impact what we see in other states and what a great point on that to my way to talk about that, but great point because what you described is an uncertainty that the campaigns have no idea when that might happen, when that shoe would draw this. and i think some of these social media attention to this issue, it's already happening right on tiktok, seeing these images very heartbreaking images out of gaza, 30,000 folks did at this point. this is a real issue for joe biden because it cuts at a very important part of his base era. american voters, obviously in michigan, i think there were something like 150,000 who voted in 2020. they likely voted mostly for joe biden. we see that pain showing up in the uncommitted vote in, so they have really got to figure this out. its black voters, it's arab american voters, it's young voters are it's highly educated voters as well and then you're going to have a third party presence in some of

these states and folks who are very much further to the left on this issue than joe biden. >> but one good, i think that's the concern for the president or for democrats. what happens when you have younger voters, younger voters of color, having solidarity with the palestinian people. and you started looking at some of the battlegrounds, says he realized the president didn't win by substantial margins. what does that look like? do some of those voters vote? third party when you doing third-party candidates like rfk junior, than you really start to see the maps changed drastically more favor of trump and i think the white house has to be very careful here because we do see that majority are about the palestinian people are going to zero. >> that's not what i'm saying. i'm saying the states it could go in favor of trump if you see some of the younger individuals find his solidarity saying, we're going to vote third party or stay home or not, we're not vote at all. >> so i think that's a >> legitimate concern. and then finally, really quickly here i will say the president has to be careful. there are about 15% of moderate leaning republicans

who voted for him in 2020. they support israel do you make a policy decision that could turn off some of those voters a two quick things to mention. >> number >> one, who's the person who has been pushing netanyahu the hardest that is joe biden on the phone night and day pushing him to care about the hostages. initially to continue to move him towards a tooth back to it he's to solution to move him towards a ceasefire and i think the hope of the administration is i completely agree with your point, lu but at the same time, if in three months, what we're seeing is an american, american leadership in rebuilding then that's a very different imagery and that's what i will just say that bibi netanyahu is no friend of the democratic party necessarily he has made that clear over his very, very long tenure and he is in a very precarious situation himself where the incentive for him is to keep this war go going as long as possible, because his

entire but political future is based reelected. but it's really please don't want i think part of what biden needs to do you can talk about the comparisons with donald trump and what gaza would look like if donald trump were there and his muslim ban. what joe biden has gone to meet with these folks, he's got to hear their pain. he's got to hear their stories. and we know there's pain obviously on both sides. jewish folks as well as arab americans here as well. joe biden has this sort of pastoral effect to him. he's needs to employ that he's got to go to these communities and talk to these folks. that's part of it. they don't feel seen, they don't feel heard tonight. they sent a big message mean surrogates are one thing. the actual president united there in person, a very different ball game. and i think you're all right. i mean, uncommitted. the phrase that they're using but they're saying don't take our vote for granted, which is a very common sentiment among voters through particularly marginalized group marginalized groups, everyone stick around

because next the clock is ticking tonight towards a government shutdown. and my expression is because i'm so accustomed to be inefficiency of these moments after an intense meeting at the white house between president biden and congressional leaders we're still here, plus the mayor of new york city wants a rollout and roll back some sanctuary city protections and deport some migrants and why the star witness for the trump team frankly failed to deliver damning testimony. against fani willis in the georgia case erin burnett, outfront tomorrow at seven on cnn >> some people just know that the best rate for you as a rate based on you with all state, not one based on paul. >> you don't want arrive at sarah >> that's day you don't want to rate based on ben. he's got some important business to take

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washington, the clock is ticking yet again, as congress has until this >> friday to reach a deal to avert another government shutdowns senate republican leader mitch mcconnell and house speaker mike johnson. both met with president biden and other democratic leaders earlier today over at the white house. now after that meeting, mcconnell express some optimism around reaching a deal, saying that the group had made some real headway on this issue. my panel is back with me alice, at some point. >> they're going to have to figure this out. i mean, this has been kicking the can down the road, kicking the can down the road do you get the sense that mike johnson because really the ball is in his court at this point, does he have a handle on this? >> he thinks he does because his sinema after the meeting was similar to mcconnell's, was that he was optimistic that they will make progress on the spending deal and avoid a government shutdown. >> the >> problem is, if he is successful in that, the likelihood of him losing his position is very high because

republicans in the house will not like caving in any way, shape, or form to to agree with something that the democrats would support. here's the issue. we have in washington right now. and this goes on both sides republicans and democrats. >> it is so >> transactional right now. we have, we have the government shutdown, we have israel, we have ukraine, even taiwan, all issues extremely important. each and every one of them on the wrong should seek bipartisan cooperation. but everyone wants to have transactions on washington. i'll give you x if you give me why that is extremely disingenuous to each of these issues, but as dangerous, it causes conflict on all of these issues. but this is the situation we're in. i do think johnson will be able to make some progress, but it's going to be at his own peril. >> you know what, abby, i'm sorry. i don't think alice i don't think that it is that transactional. i think it's actually be opposite of transactional because if those transactional, you could say, oh, i like this, i don't like this policy, but you do so i'll give you a little bit of that policy and will trade instead,

it all seems political at all, feels like i don't want to give the other side of victory and that is the problem i think for getting these bills passed is the republicans, in particular in the house because i think the senate is trying to do business. the republicans don't want to give the democratic president any kind of a victory in an election. >> yeah, because it's like i want x, i want i want x. well, here's x. never mind, i want z, i want that's what the republicans are doing right now. they did it on the border, bill. they go in, they say it's optimistic and then he come, mike johnson comes out and immediately pivoted. like, what about the border? and it's like, can we do multiple things at once? can you govern, can you do your job? and the answer is, they can but they don't want to >> also, republicans are simply ungovernable. i mean, they've not been just because of johnson. this is the speaker before. this is even the votes to get mccarthy there in the first place. this is consistent with them and it's partially because we have seen a republican caucus has transitioned from being one that's more top-down to the individual members having such power that they can be island of one to these demands that

we're talking about, the republican maga wing of the party is completely uncontrolled by the top, they can go on their own pockets, they can do, they can raise their own money, they can speak directly to donald trump, who was having his own imprint. they have a sense of power that's outside of where mike johnson. and so when these trying to wrangle them or even if there is any incentive to make government work, they are thinking politically and they've been rewarded for that by their base. and so i was just at cpac this week in washington, dc the home of this kind of weighing, right. and they are celebrating the idea of a government shutdown and looking forward to that question is active? it's not even what i mean, is there a world in which republicans actually fund the government here because i mean, that's this has been the question for about six months now. and it seems like the answer is no. >> well, there are the far right maga wing of the house. gop is perfectly fine with a government shutdown because because they feel like that's a good way for them to get their

points out there on the border and support for the border. the problem is, mike johnson is the house speaker. donald trump is the house whisper. he is going around to all these house members saying, let's not pass border patrol, border control because we want to save that for our administration, which they had for years to do and they did nothing about it. that's the crux of the issues here is donald trump has such a stronghold on republicans in the house and the senate right now that that is they want the perfect. perfect is the enemy of the good, and they'd rather get nothing than something all because donald trump wanted just to that exact point. i mean, the pressure that he's exerting is pretty extreme. he had senator john thune endorse him. and when mitch mcconnell was asked about this by manu raju, here's what he said >> over the weekend, similar trump, the other lieutenants have been why are you holding out? forcing the likely nominee? >> i don't have any announcement today >> i have to juggle that's a

classic mitch mcconnell move. i don't have any announcements on that today. i mean, is that a is that a no or is that i'm holding out? the possibility because if there's one thing mitch mcconnell is, he is pragmatic and if he's got to endorse to get things moving, he'll probably do it. >> he is pragmatic. i mean, listen, there's this mar-a lago hotline. it feels like going on between florida and washington, dc in the capital. >> and >> we remember when they were trying to get the first speaker than kevin mccarthy. and there was a video or a picture of marjorie taylor greene's phone as she had donald trump on the phone. he was talking to members on the floor while they were trying to get this done nobody else has power in this party. we all this except that's in the house. maybe mitch mcconnell has a little bit of power left in the senate and he's trying to hold onto it to see where he can get for endorsing from but every other part of this party is run by donald trump. >> every single republican event that i go to or trump event that i go to, there's a part where they boo mitch

mcconnell, like there is a, this is a person who needs the trump weighing to keep that access to power. but the same time they need him because this is a kind of policy project that they understand requires from something goishi asten of the senate. so there's a kind of transactional in nature that puts them both and each other's camp. but i do think this is a little different of a trump operation this time, they are kind of pitching more frontally to their own voters that we are not going to be deferential to the swamp, quote, unquote, this time around we come back, you can expect us to up end and that should be a part of your choice as we expectation of this campaign. and so i think that that was, you know, donald trump explicit always, but i think now it's an explicit promise of what they are offering to voters. i think we should think of a republican base, which at least for the hardcore slides not the majeure, which is not the 67% we're seeing tonight. but for some of them, they want that. >> yeah, if you're the democrats, you're actually making that very same argument that donald trump is going to

come back and do all the things that he promised, but do them more effectively. that's actually the joe biden argument as well. everyone stick around for us coming up next. he was billed as star witness in the efforts swallowed by the fulton county da fani willis. but a georgia lawyer could not deliver the promise testimony about willis's improper romantic with her lead prosecutor, our panelists will discuss that coming up >> how do i look? >> perfect. good boy. >> we are young republican >> let me do my work. and some pride >> sorry >> streaming exclusively on max they told us to follow our dreams. >> ben >> said they were unrealistic because passions don't pay bills >> but what they didn't know it said, dreamers make their own victory

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immigration officials i don't believe people who are violent in our city and commit repeated >> crimes should have the privilege of being in our city. there's some people that feels that they should be able to remain here, keep doing the actions until the eventually convicted. i don't subscribe to that a theory. >> new york has been dealing with several serious incidents involving migrants, including a shooting of a tourist during a robbery in times square now, atoms would need the city council's support to change the sanctuary city laws on this. laura that legal topic is firing up the right. and now there's one that frankly might be firing up the left. let's go down to georgia because there was another dramatic day in court as fulton county da fani willis is trying to stay on the case against donald trump in georgia attorneys for trump. in other words, they're trying to prove that she lied about her roman commands, special prosecutor, nathan wade, the man she hired to run the case. cnn's nick valencia, was

there. nick, what happened >> laura terrence bradley was again back on the stand and again, he was the star witness that wasn't the judge determined that some of the questions that he refused to answer the first time around what he would was testifying. we're not actually covered by attorney-client privilege. so he was back on the stand on tuesday and he was repeatedly asked about any personal knowledge he had about a romantic relationship kinship between willis and wade, and he repeatedly answered that either could not or did not recall. tuesday's hearing ended without the damaging testimony that defense attorneys had expected. another hearing is scheduled for friday. and at that hearing, defense attorneys are expected to introduce phone data, which they got from a subpoena, which they say shows thousands of phone interactions between willis and wade before they started dating laura >> thank you so much. neck for saying on this case. i want to bring in my panel now with all the focus that we've seen, in this case. >> well, we >> haven't heard about is obviously underlying facts

about the case. this is not about the election subversion that's is more about somewhat call it a procedural sideshow, although very significant nonetheless my question you look at all these things in connection. i'm often wondering who has got the harder hill to climb at this point. you've got biden confronting the uncommitted with foreign policy. you've got trump in his laundry list and a lot of things are legal issues when you look at this expansively, who has the harder hill, which is going to be more of a problem for the voters. >> what do you think? >> well, listen, i'm going to come trait the middle and this and say they both have an equal hill to climb here. we know what the issues are. i think one of these sort of underlying problems is it's all unpredictable. >> you can't tell what it's going to happen with these court cases with donald trump, some of the polling does suggest if there is conviction, some republicans might waver a little bit those independence certainly i'm sure which question there supporting of donald trump. if you use in fact convicted whether or not that happens, we don't really

know in terms of joe biden. again, who knows what's going to happen on the ground? ground in gaza with foreign policy more generally, with both of their ages, right? these are men he, joe biden's 81, donald trump is 77. probably not the healthiest person i heard he eats to fish fillet sandwiches at a time. those are delicious sandwiches by the way but that's fine. i mean, i do love fried fish. >> i >> don't know that i love mcdonald's by a fish, but anyway, i digress. >> last season to season just like that, i have yes. yes. so yeah, i think they both have identifiable issues in their sort of equally difficult for both dive i think one of the really interesting things for me when i look at joe biden and donald trump, is that this is the rematch from hell. i mean, i just can i say that? i mean, i don't want this. i don't know anyone else who wants this. i don't even think other than donald trump, i don't even

think joe biden would have necessarily wanted this so when we look at these two people together, and you see the polling, one of the things that comes up again and again and again is that people know who these two guys are, and they have real feelings about them either way. and the question is how much movement is they're really going to be? that's why i guess what's happening in michigan. so interesting, that's why the ivf situation so interesting, cannot move the needle. i mean, i don't know because truly when you talk to people, people have an opinion about donald trump. people they either love them or they hated people. now have opinion about joe biden. they've seen him for three years, and so i just don't know how much movement there's going to be. there is no mythical, i think in my opinion independent voter that's going to come save the day. >> well, what about the issue of ivf, by the way, because this is, this is really we know that even said opposition abortion was going to remain on the ballot in many respects,

this is part of why as a movement, we started talking about reproductive freedom over all, because it is all encompassing. and because once dobbs was overturned, we saw it's not just access to abortion, its ivf, it's contraception, it's frankly discrimination against women when they're pregnant. and so there's a whole swath of issues. and how do you say to a woman, how are republican candidates going to say? i trust you to do complicated ivf, but i don't trust you to make the best decisions for yourself about whether or not you should be pregnant. and i don't trust you to take that medicine. it's going to be ridiculous. so i actually think, yes, both men have challenges. but i think joe biden actually has more positives to run on in terms of his actual record, which is actually done for the country look, they have not done a good job communicating and i don't know where the disconnect is, but i'd rather have that hand and be moving that ball down the field. then the trump

trials where as we saw in case after case is just so far you don't know what's going to come out. and so that is going to i think harden those people who already know they don't like donald trump militia. >> i think for trump, the best thing for him politically speaking is to try to delay these things as long as he possibly can. as was mentioned, if he's found guilty a significant portion of republicans, not just the ones who have supported nikki haley, but even many of the ones that 60% that are voting for trump have said, we won't vote for a convicted felon to lead the country. so trump needs to try to delay this thing until beyond on november 5 however, when you look at some of the pluses for trump compared to biden, people trust and more with the economy they trust him more than immigration. they trust or more on the issue of handling some of the international crises that we currently are facing is that republicans more broadly on those. >> when you look >> at the data, it appears that

voters writ large, writ large appear to trust trump more than biden on those issues. the economy is doesn't connecting with the average american person despite the fact that unemployment numbers are low, the cost of goods he's very real saleable things for everyday people >> they can't afford it. lore and i will say that polling that i've seen shows they can't move to remember, like when we talk about democracy, the economy affects everybody differently, particularly with black voters. how black voters talk about the economy and think about it is not the same, it's, yes, it's groceries and gas. but it also has to do with money in their pocket. and if they are feeling like i am dealing with racism and bias at my job, then i'm not getting the pay that i deserve. that's an economic issue. >> most people can't even afford $1,000 emergency, particularly black >> but i think that's the problem, right >> isn't new. and so a lot of folks in these communities, black brown community sort of working class communities.

they've lived in these communities. maybe they sent their kids hbcus, the hbcu campuses are rundown and their neighborhoods or run down as well. and so you've got joe biden out there and kamal harris saying listen, we've poured all this money into hbcus. there's so many jobs, but people don't feel it because they are living the same sort of barely above water kind of existence so that i think is one of the reasons is not connecting because you can explain what the unemployment rate is. but if people don't feel it, they don't feel you're not going to go to the ballot for you. >> and i think also you just see democratic surrogates all the time talking about the infrastructure bill. and yes, i mean, do remember it was like every week was infrastructure week under the trump administration. and so when it finally happened, oh, my and it was a very impressive and consequential bit of legislation. but the fact is it's dispersed all over the country and it means road works and it means it's a lot of different things in different places. it means bridges shore, but you have republicans taking credit for some of that money

and saying, look what i brought to my district and so it's dispersed and so a lot of lot of the problem that this administration has had is really saying, look, i've made your life tangibly better. let's not forget, we're coming out of a terrible time in america, the pandemic, where people still are hung over from that. and so, you know in a way it's hard for joe biden to do right? >> right. right. i think we've been hard for anybody to do, right. i will remind you that the michigan governor won her first race on fix the roads so that's an economic good biden that's well, i have and that's an economic issue for a lot of people. >> i love a conversational platform, fix the roads bodes, rents too high. i mean, it just resonates with people talking about fish sandwiches. i mean, it's all >> the whole thing >> take note everyone stick around up next, supporters of rfk junior say that he'll be on the ballot in two key

battleground states this november. so what could that mean for biden or trump? >> narrow margins? harry enten will look at the data >> sunday. >> van >> jones, it's home to find out what is driving the divide and tennessee politics. >> there has been a very active 20 to 30 year effort to separate us >> the whole story with anderson cooper sunday at eight have you heard sling tv offers the news you love for less weight. you look and sound just like me. actually i am, you. because on the same news programs on sling for less, you mean you're me but for less money, a lot less? i'm all your favorite news programs and more on sling starting at just $40 a month. everything great about me, but for less money, which makes me greater than you think it's the same news for less, starting at $40 a month

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votes, you're going to get margins as slim as what we saw in 2020 and arizona, joe biden defeated donald trump by a little bit more than 10,000 votes. you go over to georgia a little bit less than 12,000 votes. any slight thing could move the needle, abby, what something that could slightly move the needle. how about if we introduce robert f. kennedy jr. into the ballot test? all right, let's look at arizona. this is among likely voters in new york times, sienna college poll back in october and november of last year, look at rfk getting 24% of the vote. how about in georgia, a similar 23%, that is really wild it is. but where's this vote counting from coming from the trump column, the biden column, maybe a little of both. >> yeah. it's a little bit of both. i will note first that this is in fact highest percentage of any independent candidate is pulled since ross perot's pulling back, not a 96, but in 1,992. now, you asked, where is this vote coming from? okay. the biden versus trump, paul martin without kennedy and arizona, trump plus five with kennedy. >> look at this. it shrinks

down to a time very significant change there, but in georgia, interestingly enough, we actually see the opposite pattern. trump was up by five without kennedy. now you add kennedy in the equation and you get trump plus seven. so i think there's some real question of who this would help, who this would hurt. it's not necessarily clear, like with a cornell west where i think we're pretty clear that it would hurt joe biden, kennedy much it's less clear is where it would take votes for. >> where is he on the ballot? just in general? yes. so where are some other states that he is on the ballot? yeah. you mentioned arizona and georgia as possibilities. okay. rfk junior is ballot access. other states biden won by less than eight points in 2020, the super pac that we spoke about earlier trying to get them on the ballot in michigan and nevada, both two very close states that biden won by less than three points. how about new hampshire? he's got the signatures there already. that could be a surprisingly close date. i don't want it rather easily back in 2020, but in 2016, it was decided by less than a percentage points. so rfk could play, but i gotta tell you if it is a plurality

victory for either biden or you know, there's a psychological thing that is going to happened to this country if that's where the case harry enten. thank you very much. and thank you all for watching our special coverage of michigan's primary elections >> it's all i'd like four more hours and ms laura you could stick around for another. okay. and one-half minutes >> we'll be back tomorrow night at man's coverage of the elections continues after this break. have a great night >> yeah he go i want us vegas that's what i want to do. >> they had the biggest entertainers in america vegas is always marketed itself on its naughtiness >> and the only way you find out what you can do is if you do it it's unlike get anywhere else in the world's biggest the story of sin city sunday at ten on cnn.

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