45th president of the united states indicted on state charges stemming from his and other's efforts to overturn joe biden's election win in the state of georgia. >> i make decisions in this office based on the facts and the law. we look at the facts. we look at the law. and we bring charges. she didn't throw the book at him. she threw the library. >> now having another indictment for him, questioning the integrity of this country's elections. that's what we're doing to a president that served this country.

>> do i tend to try the 19 defendants, yes. >> the calendar is getting quite crowded. >> you see some of the lawyers on whose advice she -- >> this is disgraceful and abuse of power by angry democrats who decided the rule of law -- >> it's much bigger than watergate. it goes to the foundation of democracy. this is very different and much more serious and much more troubling. ♪ if you are just waking up this morning, we're glad you're with us. you're waking up to significant, historic news. it's true. donald trump has been indicted again, this on felony charges for trying to overturn his 2020 election loss in the state of georgia and has 18 codefendants have also been charged. including some of the prominent

names, mark meadows, rudy giuliani. they're all facing rico, racketeering charges. fulton county district attorney fani willis ordered trump and his alleged coconspirators to surrender voluntarily by next friday and turn themselves in. >> rather than abide by georgia's legal process for election challenges, the defendants engaged in a criminal racketeering enterprise to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> prosecutors laid out the sweeping conspiracy in a 98-page indictment. it included trump pressuring state officials to find votes after he lost to joe biden. the creation of fake electors to falsely declare trump the winner in georgia. to look for voter fraud. this is trump's fourth criminal indictment. just a little more than four months. when you add up all of the

charges from the special counsel's classified documents probe and january 6th investigation plus the stormy daniel's hush money case in manhattan, trump is facing 91 total charges as he's the republican front-runner for 2024. we have team coverage all morning long. our nick valencia is live outside the courthouse and former lieutenant governor of georgia jeff duncan is standing by in atlanta. he testified before the grand jury just hours before the indictment came down. >> we also have our legal and political experts standing by. let's start with nick valencia, live at the courthouse. nick, trump is claiming that this is all politically motivated. >> reporter: and he has been. explosive rhetoric leading up to this indictment. he had said this was politically motivated. he went so far as to call fani willis a racist. charging him with 13 counts among a slew of charges he is facing, racketeering charge, which is more typically reserved for mob bosses and gangsters.

donald trump and 18 codefendants must turn themselves in here in atlanta by august 25th. >> a fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment. >> the 98-page indictment lists 41 felony counts against former president trump and 18 codefendants to overturn georgia's 2020 presidential election results. accusing them of, quote, unlawfully conspired and endeavor to conduct and participate in a criminal enterprise. trump charged with 13 counts in the indictment. >> every individual charged in the indictment is charged with one count of violating georgia's reck tear, influenced and corrupt organizations act through participation in a criminal enterprise in fulton county, georgia, and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal goal

of allowing donald j. trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on january 20th, '21. >> reporter: the indictment also included an additional 30 unindicted coconspirators in addition to the charged defendants. in a statement, trump's attorneys calling the grand jury presentation, quote, one sided and the events of monday, quote, shocking and absurd. ohio rep jim jordan, a trump ally, tweeting out -- he did nothing wrong. and house speaker kevin mccarthy saying, justice should be blind, but biden has weaponized government against his leading poli political opponent to interfere in the 2020 election. >> it was a very intense meeting. >> reporter: jeff duncan, cnn contributor and former georgia lieutenant governor on his testimony before an atlanta grand jury. >> i can tell you there was the highest level of attention in the room from folks with the district attorney's office through the jurors. it was just an extremely intense

period of time. everybody was prepared. >> reporter: the indictments stem from a 2.5 year criminal investigation into trump's alleged interference in the 2020 georgia presidential election, including his call to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes. >> reporter: to the fake electors who convened to cast illegitimate votes for trump, the investigation also accuses multiple defendants of harassment of election workers and a voting system's breach in rural coffee county. >> i want to try him and be respectful for our sovereign states. >> reporter: while fulton county district attorney fani willis says she intends to try the 19 defendants together, it's up to the judge on when the trial will proceed. >> we do want to move this case along. and so we will be asking for a proposed order that occurs, trial date within the next six months. >> reporter: this was more than just the infamous call that

trump made to georgia secretary of state after he lost the 2020 election in which he pressured him to find more votes. this is about a slate of fake electors tried to subvert the electoral college and say that trump won georgia when he really lost to joe biden. and this is really about an overall pressure campaign on georgia lawmakers and fulton county election workers to overturn the results here after the 2020 election. fani willis, we were told, initially would take up to two days to present her case to the grand jury. instead, they spent all day making their case to the grand jury with the end result being indicted yet again. poppy, phil? >> nick valencia see live in atlanta, thank you so much. joins us now, someone who testified before that grand jury, saw in nick's piece, just hours before the indictment was returned, former republican lieutenant governor of georgia, jeff duncan. jeff, i appreciate your time this morning. first off, the 98-page indictment, it's now out. you have seen it. was there anything in there that either surprised you or looked

off base from your personal experience throughout this process and this investigation? >> yeah. my early assessment is there's really no names on there that surprised me and no scenarios that surprised me. that might come in contrast to republicans all over the country, but this was what we were talking against during the immediate days and months after the 2020 election cycle. the math just didn't add up, right? you couldn't take a tweet and turn it into a factual scenario. so, no, nothing really surprised me that jumped off the page. >> i want our viewers to hear something you said last night. i believe this is when you walked out of the courthouse about what you hope america takes from this. here you were. >> my hope is that americans believe us. my hope is that republicans believe us that this election was fair and legal. i certainly think this is the tipping point for us. as republican that cares about the future of this country, this is our moment to hit the reset

button. >> your hope is not echoed by vast majority of republicans who still say in polling that they believe that biden didn't legitimately win the election. it's not something shared by most of the people running against trump. but you think this one changes things? >> yeah. this is certainly carries an even bigger weight than the other ones. as if a federal indictment doesn't carry weight or other state's indictments but certainly this added to it. poppy, i'm going to be critical of my party. i'm going to be critical of those running for president and critical of governors and senator. they know the right thing to do here. the right thing is to call donald trump out for lying, misleading us and taking our republican party straight to the ditch. that's what's happened here. and until we all want to stand up and speak as loudly and clearly as we possibly can that the republican party needs to use this as a pivot point, to hit the reset button, to go to a gop 2.0 that really gets us back

to talking about the policies. if 2024 is about the issues, if it's just strictly about the issues and not about donald trump, we will beat the brakes off joe biden. he has no positive record on the border, national security, public safety. these are issues that we can take him to the floor with. but if we just make it about donald trump, we're going to continue to be embarrassed and our campaign speeches in the republican party are going to be from courthouse steps every single day. we can do better. we should do better. this needs to be the wakeup call. i have been vocal about this, we need to have everybody running for president stand up together, not because their consultants tell them it makes sense, not because it doesn't feel like a short-term sugar high, tell donald trump to get out of this race for the good of the party and for the good of this country. >> credit for consistency, you've said that after i think this is now at least the third indictment that you've said very similar things about it's time to turn the page. it's time to get away from this. it's time to not always be

defending or rallying around somebody who has been consistently indicted. and yet, the former president's poll numbers continually seem to go up in moments like this. he's able to frame particularly in a primary electorate these as political attacks by democrats. to that point, did you get any sense that fani willis in your interactions with her during this process or her team was politically motivated? the former president called her a rabid partisan or the grand jury itself was out to intentionally get the former president? >> look, that's donald trump's game every time he gets put in a corner, he fights like a kid, right? he calls names. there's no merits behind it. i certainly didn't encounter any of that. it was a very well informed district attorney's office, a very well-informed jury that asked intellectual questions throughout the process. but look, when leaders of your party are telling you that something is true, i guess it's

inherently natural to belove them. as long as kevin mccarthy and others and candidates for president -- ron desantis, literally fired almost everybody in his campaign. if he wants to turn the tide on where this thing is headed, tell donald trump that he's wrong. he lied. and he needs to get out of the race. let's watch the deflection in the numbers at that point. >> so, because -- as long as this proceeds as a state case and doesn't move to be federal, which i don't think they're going to have success in trying to move it if they do, in georgia the governor can't pardon someone. if trump were convicted the governor couldn't. it would have to go to a board of parol that has that power. some conservatives are pushing for the law to be changed. it would give the governor, brian kemp, the ability to pardon. do you think that that would be successful at all? and should kemp have that power? could you even see him utilizing it in that way? he is someone who upheld the results in georgia. >> look, i think our most

important duty right now is georgians to let the judicial system play out as it sees fit, as the process is supposed to work, not to create all kinds of workarounds. that's where we got with this whole mess to start with with the election debacle. solutions in search of problems. every minute of everyday. let's let the judicial system play out. if donald trump did nothing wrong, coconspirators did nothing wrong, great. they will have the opportunity to share their story and it will be abundantly clear they should be scot-free. >> jeff, people waking up and seeing this, 91 charges at this point, fourth indictment. i don't know why i need to necessarily pay attention to this. can you tell them what your personal experience was like, both in testifying but also being attacked albeit with the misspelled first name by the former president of the united states. >> yeah.

i found out yesterday when i walked into the kitchen in the morning and one of my sons said, dad, former president misspelled your name. which i thought was funny. it's geoff with g. my personal experience. this has been going on for 2.5 years for my family. we didn't get into politics because we wanted power. policy over politics. that was my motto. if you put the policy over politics we'll have a much better outcome. it's tough that we have to go through these growing pains. look, we will learn from this or lose from this. i hope we're one of those at that point in time for the republican party where we learn from this. >> that is a surreal breakfast kitchen conversation with your child, i have to be honest with you. >> just an average day at the duncan's house, right? >> honestly, over the last two years not necessarily wrong. former lieutenant governor, jeff duncan, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you so much, geoff.

>> there are other big names in this indictment, 18 people listed in this outside of trump. some of the names you'll know, mark meadows, rudy giuliani. more on the charges including the rico law being used when our special live coverage continues. stay with us. oh, that's nice... oh!! searchable, verified reviewsws. that's betttter than the ham, and i'veve never said that. booking.com booking.yeah how can you sleep on such a firm setting? gab, mine is almost the same as yours.

almost is just another word for not as good as mine. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number.

(♪)

astepro allergy, steroid free allergy relief that starts working in 30 minutes, while other allergy sprays take hours. with astepro's unbeatably fast allergy relief you can astepro and go! ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ get it with gurus. cargurus. ♪ welcome back. you're looking at a full list of charges against former president donald trump from all four of

his indictments over the last four months. these are four different cases in georgia, florida, new york and washington, d.c. the 13 counts against him in georgia, this indictment brought last night, bring his total to 91. 91 counts against the former president around current front-runner with the presidential nomination. joey jackson, michael delvin back with us. michael, let me begin with your reaction to what we just heard there from geoff duncan who was lieutenant governor during the time all these shenanigans was going on. he presided over the senate when there were all these efforts to get through the fake elector scheme and a republican who praised the entire process that he was a part of here. your thoughts. >> well, he's standing up for what he believes to be the truth of the matter, which is that

there was an organized group of people, an enterprise as charged in the indictment who were trying to illegally upset the results of the election. and he feels that truth matters more than party. and therefore he's going to say this is what i saw. this is what i was asked to do or heard others being asked to do. and it's just not acceptable. it's not acceptable in the constitutional sense. it's also at a very partisan level not acceptable for the republican party to tolerate this sort of behavior. he really is in some sense exercising a profile in courage within the republican party because you really are punished within the republican party for not teowing the trump line. good for him. i think that more people like him are needed in politics. and i'm happy to have him. we don't agree very much politically but we agree on the importance of truth telling and

integrity. >> joey, to some degree you want to pause for a minute and we showed the 91 charges. that's since april 1st of 2023. on april 1th, donald trump and no president in the history of the united states has been charged with a felony. little more than four months later, he's now charged 91 times in four different places, three different entities. this case specifically, part of the issue i feel given the scale is people just shut it out. right? i can't follow all this. it's such a mess. we're rolling the screen. could probably take the next 30 minutes to go through these cases. these 98 pages, why does it matter? does it carry weight? >> phil, it's breathtaking. we went from a historic place, first indictment manhattan, even more historic place, classified documents, even more historic place january 6th issue and here

we are again. here we go again. you know, i think first of all in response to your question, phil, sort of like people have stripes. if you're republican, this is all nonsense. it's political. it's our system coming after us. i think it's time to call it for what it is, right, what i'm reading is an indictment which is very specific which has allegations, which are really just horrify mchg you look at this issue of a criminal enterprise as we talked about. you look at the pattern acts which talk about that criminal enterprise with respect to really overturning this election, soliciting people to violate their oaths of office, breaking into computer systems, intimidating witnesses, the list goes on and on. and then you look because we have gotten to this free speech issue and the issue is, it's free speech. i can say whatever i want. one of the interest things the indictment talks about many times these overt acts. let's talk about that just for one minute.

when o it's not only the speech, we can talk about anything. it's the action which translates the speech into conduct. and there are, what, 160 something acts that it lists that move it from, hey, let's just talk about this to let's get it done. and so it's hard to argue with regard to the specificity of this indictment, what the district attorney did to matching the facts to the laws that were broken to say this was just a political enterprise particularly when you had a special grand jury of 75 witnesses may of 22 to january of 2023 and actual grand jury who could issue an indictment issue the indictments. it's part of our process that's really a sad thing to see. but this is our reality. >> people often can forget you don't even need to carry out all of the acts for a conspiracy. it just is the conspireing that is the cream. let's listen sara murray, our colleague, questioning fani willis last night. >> have you had any contact with the special counsel about overlap between these cases? and do you intend to try all of

these defendants together? >> do i intend to try the 19 defendants together? >> yes. >> yes. >> have you had any questions about this indictment and the federal indictment? >> i won't discuss our investigation at that time. >> that's interesting, michael zeldin. also what makes this case different is that rico has a mandatory minimum prison time, if there is a conviction. that's not the case in the other probes. >> exactly right. there is a mandatory minimum. it's a five-year mandatory minimum with maximum of 20 years. and talking about pardons, you have to serve your term and be completing all of your probationary obligations before you're even eligible to request a pardon. so, not only does the president of the united states have nothing to do with this nor the governor of the georgia, it's an independent board. you have to wait five years

after the completion of your sentence before you can apply. so the consequences here for anyone who is convicted of rico is very, very serious. and which is why i believe that there will be a lot of people running into fani willis's office to try to work out deals to something less than a rico charge, something that doesn't carry mandatory minimum and may require testimony on their part, but they have to get out from under this rico charge and the mandatory minimum requirements. >> joey, that's a great point. sara murray's question, she had done our show at 6:00 a.m. and was still coherent at that hour with those two very important questions which is remarkable to me, but bringing 19 together, trying to try them together, when you use rico, people automatically think of mafia and gangs and people flipping on other people. is that the goal here? is that the plan? >> they may or may not need it.

the evidence that i'm reading and again these are allegations, this is an indictment, it's important to note that a grand jury assesses this information. they establish not proof of guilt beyond reasonable doubt, whether there's reasonable cause to believe a crime is committed. different standard. but as i read it, phil, they're pretty specific information in here with respect to what people have done in terms of perjury, in terms of soliciting people to violate their oaths of office and breaking into computer systems. why is that relevant? because generally when you're looking for people to flip, you're looking as a prosecutor, right, to garner the evidence you need to move forward successfully in your prosecution. so you lose leverage when the prosecution already has the information. what's important to me really because of the consequences here, we know about the whole issue of the pardon. we just spoke to that issue, is whether this goes first in time. maybe they speak with each other, all the prosecutors and this is a prosecution that takes somewhat a priority. >> yeah.

to take a national security term, deconfliction to some degree will be important here given 91 charges, four different entities. joey jackson, michael zeldin. witch hunt, politically motivated former president trump very familiar reactions to his now fourth indictment. a look inside the trump team strategy. that's ahead. with your erc tax refund so you can improve your business however you see e fit. rosie used p part of her refund to build an outdoor patio. clink! dr. marshall used part of his refund to give his practice a facelift. emily y used part of her refund to buy... i run a wax museum. let innovation refunds help you get started on your erc tax refund. stop waiting. go to innovationrefunds.com you really got the brows. was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosau colorado. start an easy to build, powerful wsite for free with a partner that alws puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com

monthlcoffee subscription box shipped our millionth so we're sending custom thank you gifts to our team. our custom ink rep is just as excited as we are and knows what great quality products to get. celebrate your milestones with custom gear. get started today at customink.com. at the alzheimer's association walk to end alzheimer's, this is why we walk. ♪ they're why we walk. ♪ we walk in the alzheimer's association walk to end alzhiemer's because we're getting closer to beating this disease. join us.

♪ hit it ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a thing go right ♪ ♪ it takes two to make it outta sight ♪ ♪ one, two, get loose now ♪ ♪ it takes two to make a... ♪ stay two nights and get a $ 50 best western gift card. book now at bestwestern.com. ♪ ("un monde pliable" by jeongpill song) ♪ ( ♪ ♪ ) (camera shutters) ( ♪ ♪ ) (camera shutters) ( ♪ ♪ ) ( ♪ ♪ ) ( ♪ ♪ )

wow, you get to watch all your favorite stuff. it's to die for. and it's all right here. streaming was never this easy, you know. this is the way. you really went all out didn't you? um, it's called commitment. could you turn down the volume? here, you can try. get way more into what your into when you stream on the xfinity 10g network. some people think you can only have one favorite team. well i beg to differ. that's why i got xfinity. so, i can catch all my favorite teams' out-of-market sunday afternoon games. and for the first time ever, no dish needed. in a word—it's fitz-credible... no. i got it, fitz-sational. i should trademark that. eligible xfinity rewards members can get up to $100 off nfl sunday ticket from youtube. sign up for xfinity rewards now.

♪ former president donald trump is blasting his fourth criminal indictment, as quote, politically inspired election interference. he and 18 others are now facing charges related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election results in georgia. in an interview with fox news digital late last night he said the indictment was, quote, tailored for placement right smack the middle of his political campaign. cnn's alayna treene is live in washington this morning. i was watching your reporting come through throughout just about every hour last night of where the trump team was what they were planning on what they were waiting for, now that this happened, now that the 98 pages are out what are they doing behind the scenes? >> right. well, they had to deal with this

three times before. they have a play book that they have used with the previous indictments that donald trump has faced. they think it's working. they're going to continue to use that, i'm told. i spoke with many of donald trump's advisers both into the leadup to the indictment dropping yesterday and after. they were very prepared. they had been preparing pre-written statements and talking to his surrogates and allies preparing them with talking points and readying them for when potential charges were filed. then of course, once we saw the indictment drop, we saw donald trump's allies immediately take to twitter, go on -- span the air waves and defend him. people like jim jordan said he did nothing wrong, people like house speaker kevin mccarthy argued this was a witch hunt and that president biden has been weaponized against donald trump. and the president himself, the former president donald trump, also in a long winding interview with fox news yesterday also

addressed these charges. he said, quote, this politically-inspired indictment, which could have been brought close to three years was tailored for placement right smack the middle of my political campaign, where i'm beating joe biden soundly in almost all polls. and again, poppy and phil, we have seen this before. donald trump wants to message this on his own terms. he wants to own the narrative here. i think you're going to continue to see him talking about this both on truth social, but in additional media interviews in light of these new charges. >> it's interesting. a few days ago trump said all he needed was, quote, one more indictment to close out the election. next week he may or may not get on the debate stage for the first republican debate. two days before he is set to meet the deadline to turn himself in in this case. just fascinating how politically he'll continue to use this. >> no, that's exactly right. and i do think that, you know, his campaign very much does see

the political advantages. at least in the short-term of these charges. of course, donald trump does not want to be indicted. this is massive legal headache. he recognizes, as does his team, that this is going to largely create problems for his campaign, at least from a scheduling and logistics standpoint but also potentially as they look ahead to not just with primary voters but if they were able to win the nomination. but if he is, how would this play in a general election. they're very worried about that. but in the short-term, they do see the benefits. they'll continue to push this on fundraising and continue to talk about it. and i do think that eventually, if donald trump does appear in person for a court appearance, again, that's still premature as well, i think you'll see him give remarks and try to message on this as well after that. >> it's a great point. you had great reporting throughout the course of these four indictments. that's how they raise money at this point as well. those public appearances to the extent he can speak because they need money as we have seen with your reporting and the fec

filings. thank you so much. unlike the federal cases that donald trump is currently fighting, this one in georgia will likely be televised. it will be on camera. how cameras in the courtroom could play politically for the former president. ♪ (♪) rsv can be a dangerous virus...

[sneeze] ...for those 60 and older. it's not just a cold. and if you're 60 or older... ...you may be at increased risk of hospitalization... [coughing] ...from this highly... ...contagious virus. not all dangers come with warning labels. talk to your pharmacist or doctor... ...about getting vaccinated against rsv today. before... and bath fitter. now's the time to call bath fitter to get a beautiful “after.” with our unique tub over tub process, there's no mess or stress. bath fitter. it just fits. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation.

- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. welcome back. fulton county district attorney fani willis says the former president and his codefendants must surrender by august 25th, a week from friday. the former president could surrender any time before that, which is august 23rd, the first republican debate. let's talk about the politics of

all this. laura brown lopez is with us, republican strategist, doug hyde joins us along with former adviser to president clinton is with us. what a week next week will be. as we head into this, when ever trump decides to turn himself in, everything that happens in the courtroom because this is a state case including the trial will be on camera. it's not the case for the two federal ones. >> that's right. and we can probably expect that former president trump is going to use the fact that it is on camera to his advantage. and that this could certainly help him in the primary. now, assuming that that starts around the time that d.a. fani willis said she hopes a trial date is set which is within the next six months that could land

around the iowa caucus or around the other early states when they start voting in february. ultimately as we have seen time and time again with the last three indictments that when trump goes into the courtroom, when he's responding to these indictments the gop base rallies around him. >> paul, i want to read a part of peter baker's great analysis story today which i think gets a the idea of trump is able to somehow spin this to his advantage on the primary side. so the country must brace itself for the trial of the century followed by the next trial of the century and then the next and then the next. and you chuckle for a moment when you read it. and then you think, well, no, that's actually accurate and there is no precedent for any of these trials of the century. my question is and poppy is getting to this the idea of having this on camera, the idea of having someone like ruby freeman testify, we saw it from the january 6th committee, still

seems to get lost overall, can that change minds, not core base supporters but more broadly? >> right. i think it can. it can among those independents that trump has to get in order to get 50%, in order to get back to the white house. first off, can i say it's an outrage that the federal courts won't have cameras in there. the founders wrote into the constitution that trials have to be in public. that pent back then the pencil press could come in. it's insane that the federal courts don't let cameras. these are our employees. these are our courtrooms. i'm sorry to get in on my soap box here. donald trump has spent more time on the business end of a camera than probably even more than ronald reagan, than any politician. he knows how to perform on camera. the difference son his tv show, at his rallies he is in charge. in this trial, the judge is going to be in charge. the jury and the viewers we

don't see anything that that judge doesn't want to let in. and i think that could really be frustrating for trump. he's a guy who likes to control things. and i think it actually might not work to his advantage. i think he is far better suited by the way skipping the debate on wednesday next week and showing up at the courthouse to be arraigned and show everybody that the ratings for a five-minute statement at his courthouse will be 100 times higher than all of the non-trump debating. so i think it's nuts for him to debate. he should just show up, be arraigned and have a media circus. >> doug, you're a republican strategist. is paul right, democratic strategist right about what the republicans front-runner should do? >> begala advising the trump campaign. who knew. weird morning. >> unpaid adviser. ultimately i do think he is right. part is we have seen so often that republicans not just are shy to be critical of trump but they sure up his messaging.

phil, you're an old ballplayer. when you come to a fork in the road, you take it. if you're a republican returning against donald trump, you have four forks in the road or maybe 91 forks. this would be the time to take one of those forks and use it. ultimately see if that do that or not. but i'm reminded of star wars and the lesson it taught us, ultimately luke sky walker had to face darth vader. what we have seen with these republicans running against trump more in theory than in practice is they are depending on one thing that in politics you typically say and donald trump is atypical, hope is not a strategy. we'll find out next wednesday as to believe it or not anything will be different or not. >> heye just called me old and just -- >> then he went for the star wars reference dating himself. so i want to put all that on the record. >> touche. laura, what --

>> can i give some free advice to trump's opponents? >> yes but then laura. go ahead, paul. >> the killer argument against trump is not, certainly not, he's a martyr. and it's also not he's a crook. the killer argument against him is he's in it for himself. he's distracted. he's only concerned about his own hide, not about yours. that's the argument. when is the last thing he talked about immigration. when is the last time he talked about borders, crime, jobs, health care, the economy, china, russia, nothing. and so i think that's -- if i'm in the republican debate, i say trump is like warming up to the op opera. >> yogi berra, star wars, paf ratty. laura, last word. >> look, i think that one of the

big things that is going to ultimately impact this election is clearly that the democracy argument is something that democrats are seeing as being salient, the threats to democracy argument. so that is something that i think we can expect. in addition to we talked about abortion and all the other things that paul laid out. but biden's campaign sees the threats to democracy and their ability to still make that argument even while president biden is certainly not going to talk about the specifics of the case and the specifics of the indictments against trump. but they are going to continue to make that argument, which we saw in 2020. and which we saw him make after the january 6th insurrection. >> i have a polliaci reference. >> thank you, guys. >> appreciate it. >> thank you. >> congratulations on the new gig, phil. >> thank you, paul. appreciate it. fulton county's fani willis is taking on the biggest case of

her career. next, we'll be joined by a mentor of her's. reaction to these charges and the direction this could go. also, cnn on the ground in hawaii as the community cleans up from the massive deadly wild fires and investigates what happened, how did this all go so terribly wrong and so fast. ♪ >> this right here is a crime scene. and so, what people don't understand is the government has to do due diligence before they start moving in. >> so it's a humanitarian response the middle of a working crime scene. >> exactly.

make your next move a dream come true with the pods big move sweepstakes. win a free local or long-distance move. plus ultra-premium viking appliances and up to $7,500 cash. enter today for your chance to win. visit pods dot com.

the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. (we did it) start today at godaddy.com this thing, it's making me get an ice bath again. what do you mean? these straps are mind-blowing! they collect hundreds of data points like hrv and rem sleep, so you know all you need for recovery. and you are? i'm an investor...in invesco qqq, a fund that gives me access to... nasdaq 100 innovations like... wearable training optimization tech.

uh, how long are you... i'm done. i'm okay. this tiny payment thing- is a giant pain! hi ladies! alex from u.s. bank! can she help? how about a comprehensive point of sale system... that can track inventory, manage schedules- and customize orders? that's what u.s. bank business essentials is for. (oven explosion) what about a new oven, can u.s. bank help us there? we can serve loans in as fast as 12 minutes. that would be a big help! huge! jumbo! ginormous! woo! -woo! finding ways to make your business boom. that's what u.s. bank is for. we'll get there together.

♪ i make decisions in this office based on the facts and the law. the law is completely nonpartisan. that's how decisions are made in every case. we look at the facts. we look at the law. and we bring charges. >> so president trump has slammed the fulton county district attorney fani willis throughout this process, accusing her of partisan bias. while his critiques are largely unsupported, willis did make a mistake last year when she hosted a fundraiser for a democratic candidate running for georgia's lieutenant governor. problem that candidate was running against republican candidate burt jones, one of the 16 fake electors in georgia.

which made a potential target of willis' investigation. a georgia judge then blocked willis from pursuing an investigation of jones. her political actions should disqualify her from doing that. the judge called the fundraiser a, quote, what are you thinking moment? and said the optics are horrific. but i should note, that same judge has also praised willis' handling of this investigation in a ruling last week, he said, quote, the district attorney's office has been doing a fairly routine and legally unobjectionable job of public relations in a case that is anything but routine. joining us now is gwen keys flemming, considering herself one of fani willis' mentors. thank you for taking the time. i think this gets at a point, there's been about 300 profiles written over fani willis over the course of the last two years. it becomes very easy to slate her into some hyperbolic category or another. tell people, as a district

attorney, who fani willis is and this case particularly what it means. >> sure. well, fani is a prosecutor's prosecutor. she is tough. she knows the law. she follows the law. she's not going to be distracted either by politics, the threats that she has gotten, her team has gotten, any of the distractions of the media. she's focussed, she and her team. and what they are looking to do is understand whether they have to the evidence to move forward. they made that preliminary decision. obviously the grand jurors agreed. now they'll go about the business of trying the case. again, i think as this goes forward, you'll see that she's the consummate professional. she's very persuasive in the courtroom as well as outside the courtroom. she's earned the trust of the residents of fulton county. and now she's going to go forward in their name to hold

anybody accountable that may have violated the law within her jurisdiction. >> how would you describe her as a litigator, as a trial lawyer? how would you describe her as cross-examining witnesses, for example? >> she's very tough. it's mastery of the courtroom if i could be so i guess hyperbolic. but she's one, again, she studies hard. she studies well. she knows the law. she knows her case so she is able to easily cross-examine witnesses, lure them down various paths, get them to commit to things that help her case or demonstrate their lack of credibility. i think one of the things, too, is she's very familiar with the bench in fulton county. she has practiced there as an tant d.a. for years. so she knows each judge's personality and how to be successful in that particular courtroom.

so, again, all of those things come into play when you're looking to see just how good a prosecutor is. law and facts are one thing. presence and understanding of the audience, whether it's the judge and/or the jury is another. and fani has both. >> fani willis said she's utilized the rico statute going after gangs and utilizing it here. you're a neighboring d.a. in georgia, tell people why this is an effective statute that fani willis would want to utilize here. >> so, the great thing about georgia's rico statute, it's a fantastic tool for prosecutors because it lets us, lets them, tell the jurors the whole story. very often if you have a multi-defendant case, sometimes you can get into facts as it relates to one defendant. sometimes defense attorneys will try to file motions in limbny or

other motions to limit testimony of other actors, so it doesn't come back on their client. a rico statute lets you put all of that under one umbrella. as you look at the way the indictment is laid out, it not only lists several predicate crimes to establish that pattern of racketeering, but it also talks about different acts that were in furtherance of the racketeering charges or in furtherance of protecting the enterprise. and it's those other facts that lets prosecutors fill in the gap and make this is a story telling exercise for the jurors. >> i want to ask you about trump's atlanta-based defense counsel. you have defense lawyer drew finling. he's called the magician by some there for his successful defense of famous clients. also his colleague in all this, jennifer little, what should people know about them as

defense counsel. >> i mean, these are excellent counsel. jennifer and i used to work together when we were both prosecutors. and drew has been a formidable opponent of mine and other colleagues for years. so, what you will see, i have no doubt, will be an effective defense strategy once they had the opportunity to digest the indictment and we are going to be looking at some of the great prosecutors and great defense lawyers in georgia going head to head throughout this process. i think, though, it's important to remember that this is really about the residents of fulton. their votes and looking to see whether the facts and law actually match up in the way that the district attorney has laid out for the grand jury. >> gwen keyes, appreciate your time. thank you so much. >> thank you. so our coverage of the fourth indictment of former president trump continues. we're going to take you back out life to the fulton county courthouse in atlanta, georgia,

and dive deeper into these new charges. gear for the team. it was so o easy. i just chose my prproducts, added our logo, and placed my order. brining your own team together with custom gear. get started today atat customink.com. my a1c was up here; now, it's down with rybelsus®. his a1c? my a1c was up here; noit's down with rybelsus®.s®. my doctor told me rybels® lowered a1better than a leading branded pill and that people taking rybelsus® lost more weight. i got to my a1c goal and lost some weight too. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking rybelsus® with a sulfonylurea

or insulin increases low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. need to get your a1c down? you may pay as little as $10 per prescription.

♪ good morning, everyone. we're so glad you're with us. it is tuesday, august 15th. we're following huge breaking news overnight. donald trump has been indicted again. this time by a grand jury in fulton county, georgia. the former