- [announcer] do you have an invention idea but don't know what to do next? call invent help today. they can help you get started with your idea. call now 800-710-0020. target trump, cnn confirming today that the former president

is now the target of the special counsel's 2020 election investigation. it's an historic moment that tells a lot of legal trouble for the former president trump of the i'm anderson cooper in new york. >> and i'm dana bash in washington. you're watching a special edition of "inside politics." at 9:21 a.m. eastern, trump hit send on a truth heard around the country. jack smith, the prosecutor with joe biden's doj, sent a letter, again, it was sunday night, stating that i am a target of the january 6th grand jury investigation. trump goes on to say he now expects to be arrested and indicted again in short order. another indictment guarantees another data point in the political campaign strategy that he's a victim and, therefore, the gop should rally around a him. cnn is reporting at every single angle of this from the justice department to the former president's plan to respond. we're going to start with cnn's katelyn polantz.

you have been reporting on this for a long time. first question is did the special counsel's office confirm that they sent this letter as the former president is saying? >> they are being very true to form and they are offering us no comment right now from the spokesperson from the special counsel's office. my colleague over at court today is watching and there is a grand jury meeting today as they have been on tuesdays for many months. and we know that there's an active grand jury because the grand jury has given donald trump an opportunity to come speak to him. what they said in the target letter is that he was the target of the january 6th grand jury investigation, he was given a

shr short four days to report to the grand jury. on his own behalf. if he so chooses he doesn't have to take that opportunity. and everyone who is viewing this, who is hearing this who understands how they work. this indicates a charge is eminent. this is the sort of situation where you're notifying the former president of the united states that he is not only just a person there has been information collected about in this grand jury criminal investigation, but that he is very likely to be charged with a federal crime. there are a lot of aspects of this investigation that we have seen play out over many, many months, even predating the special counsel's appointment last november, but putting it altogether, much of the grand

jury activity has centered around donald trump and what he did while he was president after he lost the election leading up to it. >> cnn's jeff zeleny, andrew mccabe and former prosecutor elliot williams. thank you all. i want to start with laura. as one of the former federal prosecutors here to talk about the potential scope of charges, because we have seen and kind of gotten the sense based on the interviews that the special counsel was doing and the testify that he was calling before the grand jury that you saw the lawyers in and around lawyers around the january 6th going in. it was a big question whether or not he was going to be a target,

whether they had the goods on him. what does this tell you? >> we're in a deja vu. you can almost copy and paste his prior statements about being arrested and indicted on charges like this. taking a a step back, we have to delineate. this is not the classified documents. this is leading up to january 6th. even more so than what happened on january 6th. the leading up to it, what was a possible conspiracy to try to conspire to use the resources available to the executive branch of government to try to undermine a congressional lawful proceeding. what about the electors? was there obstruction of the investigation? the realm of possibilities is very wide. i will be eager to see what aspect he focuses on with respect to donald trump. because this is a person who very rarely gives a direct order. as a direct threat that says i

want you to go do this on behalf of me. that's what's happening. >> or has a paper tail trail. he doesn't e-mail, so this has to be based on testimony. >> testimony, individual face to face conversations with the former president, phone calls, whatever else it might be. so sketching out and adding to some of the things at the back of the envelope or the top of the league pad, what potential charges might be. you have conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct congress, you can have misdemeanor interference with elections and any other host of other lower level crimes. if this went really big, and i sort of doubt they would, but they could potentially charge racketeering with a criminal enterprise bringing in a number of different charges, that's highly unlikely, but they could just do it. and then the big one is seditious conspiracy, again, you can have a hard time. you're going to need one-on-one

conversations with the president agreeing with people to use force to obstruct congress. i think you get something probably in the realm of these conspiracy ies to get in the wa of congress. >> how do you see it? >> very similarly. there are other a lot of what will happen we'll learn from other people. it's unlikely that the president would be indicted as a sole defendant this an indictment of this nature. and whoever else gets charge d with him will give insight into what direction the prosecutors are likely to go. there are other folk who is are kind of ones the preriphery of the activities looeding up to january 6th. there was a potential conspiracy to impact the department of justice with the removal of the acting attorney general. i think those are issues that will be addressed later if they are focused on the president right now, it would simply be the president and those two or three individuals, who are close

est to him at that time on those core issues of defrauding the government, obstructing congress and potentially even insighting insurrection. >> one quick point as to what a target letter is. when you identify someone as a target, they are saying that there's substantial evidence to believe that that person committed a crime. it's not just sort of they were linked to something. no, they actually think there's a really good chance this person committed a crime. >> it does just on the substantial evidence piece, this is a case that basically has had had almost a first trial run through, an impeachment proceeding, that came before. so it strikes me that to get to a point of criminal charges after a special counsel has taken a look at this, the evidence is going to have to be substantial to warrant charging a former president with a case that is as broad as it is, and to your point earlier, trump's involvement in this would be not the way that you would expect it. he's not going to write an

e-mail saying go do this or that. heis's not writing a text messa saying to do this so to prove that strikes me that the justice department has a high bar to reach in terms of evidence, understanding also the incredible amount of skcrutiny that they will be under, not just for this case, but other the others that trump faces. >> for so many reasons. he's a former president. the second, among equal reasons, he's a candidate for president. we know that the legal strategy and the political strategy, we have said this so many times, they are one in the same. >> and donald trump leads with the political strategy. why disclose this today on a day ron desantis is having a big interview on this network. on a day there's a big hearing on florida in the classified documents case. donald trump tries to poison the well and keep his people. we don't know a lot about this yet. we know what donald trump is telling us. let's rely on recent history

when he said he was a target in the classified documents investigation. his lawyer said it was a limited case, it was 30 this and when it was released, we found out, whoa, this is a lot bigger, a lot deeper. and as donald trump tries to politicize jack smith, in the classified documents case, all the evidence before us, and donald trump is still innocent until proven guilty, but everything in that indictment was from people close to donald trump. back to the point about january 6th, we know jack smith has the power of a federal grand jury. many of the people around trump, arm's length to congress. they gave limited cooperation. in a special counsel when you're under risk of being charged with perjury, it's a different thing. so the one thing we do know is trump is trying to lead the conversation here, as he did when the classified documents target letter gcame in. we found out that a lot of what we say today, i'm guessing it will be overwhelmed by what we see when jack smith delivers -- you don't send a letter like this unless you're prepared to

move forward. >> you mentioned the fact that there's a lot of testimony. just look at the names that we're talking about. just to remind people, this grand jury has heard from mike pence, his former vice president, who obviously was very intimately involved with what happened. mark meadows, his chief of staff, and it goes on and on. >> a quick point about that. this focus on january 6th because of the horrendous conduct of that day. if you talk to some of the people that have green ghosn in, this goes back to the election. it started before the election about what happens. pz against the advice of his legal team, the election was stolen. so i i would say as we focus on this and following what donald trump says it's about, just to be very cautious about that, realize that we know from the witnesses that they were asked about things happening in the last weeks of the campaign, up to election day, all the way up to january 6th and even after that.

>> that's why we know how long this is taken. if this was about january 6th, it's a much more focused, violence related investigation about the actual activity inside the capital. but it seems to be more and more from the investigation and testimony that january 6th was likely the culmination of a series of events guided towards that particular day. that's why you have this length. so the question is, jeff zeleny, as somebody who spends a lot of time on the campaign trail talking to republican voters who are going to determine whether or not donald trump is the nominee the next time around, how do they see this? >> he clearly is trying to control this message. he's trying to orchestrate all this for fundraising. it has been successful for him in the past. he's stayed strong in polling. but we don't know if the past is necessarily the same as this. this is a much more serious case

that we saw play out in realtime. so when you talk to republican voters in iowa, in new hampshire, where i was last night, talking to some of them, more of them have an open mind than i was expecting about sort of how this year is going to play out. this could be different. it could not be, we'll see. but i do not think we should necessarily automatically assume that his strength will continue on this because of the different nature of this. and as you said, all of the people interviewed are people from his inner circle. jared kushner, i'm thinking back to the days right after the election between that period and the inauguration when he acknowledged privately, as we reported, that he may have lost. so this is all going back to, yes, his core has stayed with him, but half the party is ready to move on. the question is how do rifles seize upon this. >> i'm going to go back to anderson in new york. >> thank you. next, the other legal case

against donald trump is back in court. and what kpktly is the president doing now? more special coverage, next.

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welcome back to cnn's special live coverage. we're getting more details about how the former president is doing now that he received a target letter from prosecutors. kristen holmes has more. you're told he's working the phones and trip planning. what else? >> we are told the trump team was working the phones trying to figure out if anyone else received a target letter in this investigation. they thought that would help them the scope of the charges might actually be and what a potential case against the former president could look like. now so far, we're told that they have not found someone who has received a target letter, but they are still working the phones. they were caught off guard by the timing around this target letter. i had spoke ton multiple sources in the last several weeks, who

said they thought this investigation had cooled off recently. now when you talk about planning travel, trump is on his way to iowa tonight because we cannot forget he is running for a third presidential bid right now. he's the middle of campaigning. none of that is going to change. he's doing a town hall with sean hannity. and we expect this to come up. one thing i will note is so far, i have not seen any fundraising e-mails a off this target letter. that's usually the first thing they do, as we reported last week. they believe that they raised more money when he gets either indicted or a target letter, or faces legal problems. so interesting to see them not doing that quite yet. there's a lot of confusion, a lot of conversations still going on right now all around the fact that they have this third presidential campaign that they are running. >> kristen holmes, appreciate it. back here in new york, not a

surprise, i guess. there's a lot of different aspects that jack smith could be looking at in terms of january 6th. >> the fact that he's talking about this target letter has gone to trump zeros in on trump and his mind set. we got an indication that's something jack smith was looking at. >> but it's trump himself. >> it's what it had seemed to focus on. it was the fake elector scheme that he was zeroing in on and talking about. then it was that crazy meeting that happened in the oval office six weeks after the election. >> with rudy giuliani and the land of mitt fit toys. >> yes, it was one of the craziest meetings. then he was looking at trump's mind set specifically. he brought in jared kushner and hope hix. they are not people involved in planning january 6th, the fake electors and what that was going to look like, but they are people who can offer insight into trump's mind set that very few can do so. so hope hix, i had a

conversation with a source last week who said the idea they brought in hope hix in june, not even that long ago, what does that tell you. they said it's very clear they are looking at trump himself in a way they did not know previously. i think this caught the team off guard. it's not a surprise. we knew this investigation was coming and this was underway and charges were likely, but the fact that trump has gotten a target letter and so far out of everyone we have spoken to, no one else we know of has gotten a target letter. maybe they are not telling us. maybe they will get one in the days to come. it's shocking to the legal team. >> there's a questioning of who may be cooperating. we know rudy giuliani met with the special counsel for two days. mark meadows has been awall. >> mark meadows, a lot of people in trump's orbit think he's cooperating they don't know what he's telling them, but they do think that is happening. we don't have that confirm the. that's just what trump's or orbit believes. rudy giuliani has not gotten a target letter.

trump's team, they had been hoping best case scenario, which they realize he could be an unindicted coconspirator he's likely staring down charges and trump is mounting a defense saying he has a right to protest the election. >> what are you hearing? >> i just think what's interesting today's big picture context, we have been talking since january 6th about prosecutors, it's not hard to indict with a grand jury. but would they do it because it could be such a hard case to make to convict a former president, especially. so i think the big picture take away is jack smith thinks he has a very, very strong case and so does merrick garland. >> you think they would be unlikely to take the myriad of risks they are taking by doing this and the upheaval that it could potentially cause if they feel they had a strong case.

>> no question. i spoke to several former high level justice dependent official who is know both these men and say thad unless they felt nay had a very strong case, that they would not. i think we're close to indictment here. certainly, donald trump thinks we're close to indictment. a lot of people suggested that merrick garland did not have -- didn't want to go there. i think now he has been following this every step of the way. there's no question with the january 6th documents there's been a prosecution memo that's been circulating that he's been looking at. these two men are convinced there's a strong case. >> the key issue for prosecutors is going to be intent. donald trump's actions are fairly open.

we have all learned what they are doing. but the hardest part of the case here what was in this person's mind. did had know what they were doing was wrong. hope hix, jared kushner, a family member. we know they have spoken to the chief of staff because those are the people who had at the time, unvarnished, unregulated, one-on-one conversations. and for somebody who doesn't really text, who doesn't e-mail, you're not going to have a smoking gun document. but what you may have is crucial conversations from the people closest to him. >> as a republican, as a conservative republican, this is a bad day. our party is once again going to be blemished with the leader of our party. but this is a good day also for a our party. this is one step closer to

telling the real story of what happened on january 6th. it's about what happened in georgia and clearing the state and moving past this. this is difficult stuff. they just mentioned earlier he's going to go to iowa. can you imagine having a federal indictment sitting on the edge of somebody's desk. he planned it this way. it's better to be for him campaigning than sitting at home stewing in mar-a-lago. >> a big part of his reason he announced is because he wanted to be able to say i'm being percent cute. for ordinary people, the thing that drives people nuts is little people do big-time and big people do no time. and so the department of justice has these lost puppies .

they would already be in jail. he's facing some justice and it's fair. >> you want to go back to washington and dana bash. >> thank you. on capitol hill, we are seeing predictably partisan reaction to the target letter. in minutes, one of the impeachment managers will join me to talk about what's next. and it's making quite the spectacle. for a limited time, get two pairs of privé revaux frames from jamie foxx for only $89.9.95. book your exam today. there are currently more than 750,000 unfilled cybersecurity jobs in the u.s. the google unfilled cybersecurity cybersecurity certificate was made to fill that gap and help grow the workforc that'seeping us all safe. ♪ about my lifely thing t

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today a predictable reaction from capitol hill to word that donald trump is a target of the special counsel's 2020 election investigation let's go to capitol hill. what are members telling you? >> we are seeing a lot of republicans to rush to the defense even before seeing an indictment and any allegations. but a familiar pattern, one we saw in the last two criminal indictments. leaders defending donald trump saying he's unfairly targeted by the justice department. and they have been silent. or any of his deputies. they come back this afternoon. we'll see how they respond then. but it wasn't it was only a matter of minutes where they went to the cameras and defended

donald trump's actions before seeing any evidence. >> had the american public is tired of this it. they want to have equal justice. the idea they utilized this to go after those that disagree is wrong. >> donald trump is the leader of our party. and donald trump is going to beat joe biden in 2024 for a second time. >> why are they doing everything from preventing him from being on the ballot. because donald trump will win in 2024. and the left are scared. >> this is as wrong as it gets. >> and that last comment from jim jordan, the house judiciary committee, tried to go after records from the special counsel himself. something the justice department has not been willing to provide because of an ongoing criminal investigation. but that would be an area in which republicans almost certainly will continue to push, try to get records, try to push

to try to get any information, something that democrats will see as blatant interference offen an ongoing criminal probe. as you can see there, republicans in the house, using their power to defend donald trump, even as the senate gop leadership remains silent. >> thank you so much for that reporting. joining me now is congressman jason crow of colorado. thank you so much for joining me. i want to ask you about this issue just from a personal level. we have all seen the photo and remember that you were in the house kmam chaim better trying to protect your fellow members while the insurrectionists were also in that chamber. you were relying on your training as an army ranger to do so. what's your reaction to what you just heard from your colleagues and manu's report? >> this is a unique situation. you have one where people are trying to revise history. you have a very protected grand

jury process that's going on. they have been nothing been bust an upstanding prosecutor, a person of great repute. everybody saw what happened on january 6th. we saw it unfold before our eyes. speaker mccarthy, who is defending donald trump, the speech he gave on the house floor hours after the capitol police retook the capitol from that mob. he called out me by name. and now they want to revise history. nobody is going to buy it. we all saw what happened. it outlined what happened. >> and yet i'm sure you agree with your colleagues that the justice system needs to work properly.

we only know that the former president got a target letter. we don't know anything more than that what that indictment would look like and so forth. from your perspective, do you believe if the former president have actual evidence that he was involved and that he had intent to be a part of the obstruction of democracy that led to january 6th, that he should face the same charges that any other american would? >> absolutely. not only do i believe that he should, i think it's necessary that he should. there are above every courthouse in america, there's lady justice that's holding the scales and lady justice is blindfolded. when our system works at its best, and it doesn't always work this way, but the system, as designed, is supposed to be blind. the idea behind that is it

doesn't matter who you are or what job you hold, what position you have, it doesn't matter whether you're a president or you're an administrative assistant. we're all equal before the eyes of the law. that is the aspiration of our system. that's the way it has to work if we're going to pursue that ideal in this case. >> so there's the ideal and what should happen and the political reality of where we are. this is not just a former president. this is a candidate for president. and part of the strategy and part of the words that we have heard, not just from the former president, but from his allies in the halls where you are, is that this is helping. in thiz his campaign in the short-term to get the gop nomination. is there any part that worries about that? you are a politician. >> there are false equivalencies.

. if you're black or brown in america, that system doesn't always work well. there are internal biases in that system. what i'm concerned about in this case, dth sdth going to get special treatment because he is a form president. and a current presidential candidate. what i'm saying is that should not happen. it should not matter. think about what that would mean. if a current or former president is immune to the law and prosecution, nobody wants that system. that is completely untenable. we don't have kings and queens in america. we cannot have that result. >> you were a manager for the first impeachment. different issue. but given the experience you had on trying the then president,

what are your thoughts on this and are there any bits of your experience that should know and think about. >> i was a prosecutor in the first impeachment, as you said, which a lot of people forget what that was a about. it seemed so long ago. but the high crime in that was a violation of something called the impoundment control act. the president withheld funds that congress appropriated, designated for ukraine. so he blackmailed president z lent skit and withholding critical security assistance to get a political favor. there's been numerous violations by this president because he doesn't respect the law. he thinks he's above it. he's a sociopath. i'm not a psychologist, but it's very clear with his conduct that he's somebody who does not believe that the rules apply to him. and he can do whatever he wants. that's a very dangerous person

to put in any position of authority, to be a babysitter, let alone the president of the united states. >> congressman crow of colorado, we appreciate your time. >> thank you. back to you in new york. the breaking news today, donald trump reveals he's received a target letter. how are the republicans who want to beat trump reacting? more on this special edition of "insnside politics," next. i'm christine mahon. i'm retired from public health nursing and from the army reserve. my retirement funds allow me to enjoy what i love to do. as long as you can make an impact, why stop?

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welcome back to our special coverage. this this is new video. that's jack smith getting lunch at subway. spotted on this historic day. the team notified trump he's the target of the january 6th insurrection. these were not questions asked of him. already today some clear ripples on the campaign trail sparked by this target letter. i want to get to jeff zeleny. he's supposed to have an event tonight. among the rivals to the former president. >> this is now part of this republican presidential campaign. there have been a couple other chapters of this earlier in the year, but now some of his rivals are coming out at least tepidly voicing their concern about this. let's take a listen to a couple of them. one of his lead rivals is ron desantis who are is campaigning today in south carolina.

>> i think it was shown how he was in the white house anden didn't do anything. he should have come out more forcefully. >> the governor went on to say he was just learning about the news of these potential indictments, so he would be looking into it more. he will be sitting down with jake tapper later today. also stronger words from nikki haley. who has been one of the more forceful candidates. she served a as a member of the trump administration. she had this to say on fox news. >> it's going to keep ongoing. the rest of this primary election that's going to be in reference to trump is going to be about lawsuits. it's going to be about legal fees. it's going to be about judges. it's going to continue to be a further and further distraction. and that's why i am running.

we need a new generational leader. we can't keep dealing with this drama and the negativity. >> clearly, using the word drama, we have heard from it her many times as she's campaigning in iowa, new hampshire, the early voting state of south carolina as well. the question is how do republican voters react to this. we do know there's a deep split inside the party whether they want to move on from donald trump or stick with him. but also some very strong words from former governor asa hutchinson. he said the former president trying to portray himself as the victim today. he said the true victims of january 6th were the capitol police officers and the country's democracy. he once again called on him to drop out of this race. >> jeff zeleny, thank you. my panel is back with me. it's interesting. it's weird seeing jack smith go for a subway sandwich. i guess everybody has to eat. the rivals running, we heard hey hey and ron desantis.

it's not exactly a full-throated rejection of the former president. >> i'm curious to see if this changes the language they use at all. you saw nikki haley. she kept talking about it being a distraction and legal fees and how it's affecting their efforts, which the entire field wants to beat donald trump, but they want to beat joe biden. i wonder if you'll see candidates using that language. but a reminder how the republican base, which they have to get ahold of them first to win their republican primary feels a about this. it was just two weeks ago that mike pence was in iowa when a voter said he was the reason joe biden was in the white house essentially blaming him. he corrected had her and said, no, you have been lied to. i couldn't do what donald trump wanted me to do that day. there's very much a section of the base that's with trump when it comes to january 6th. so how they handled this indictment compared to the documents, the accusations of taking national security secrets to mar-a-lago could be dif

different. but i think we haven't heard from pence. i'm curious to see what he says given he had the closest view to this. he has been saying that trump should be held accountable and he thinks history will hold him accountable. but last week, he made it clear he thinks that's happening at the ballot box, not from the justice department. >> are you surprised the rivals who want to become president on the republican side that they are not still going directly after the former president? >> other than chris christie and they are scared. and the reason why is that common sense would say that these are disqualifying allegations before you even get to the indictment, the conviction. just being accused of this level of disrespect for democracy, it's disqualifying. so you have one foot on common sense, but then you have a base that does see this as they are going after our guy. that tribalism, even if he's

wrong, he's our guy that's wrong. you're not going to be the one that put him right. that attitude and mind set make it is hard to run in this primary. >> do you believe any of them can actually challenge the former president without challenging the former president? >> i think this is another golden moment to speak up and to with a full -throated rebuke, i he's broken the law, let the legal process play out. they should put the issues of the day and our republican conservative solutions forward and orun with it. republicans want to be hoodwinked and elect donald trump as the nominee, so be it. that's going to happen. we'll lose again. but if the the opportunity wakes up and the weight of these indictments is so severe, i think you have to remember we're going to have to distance ourself. we as in republicans from donald trump as this plays out. he was so reckless and cavalier, we watched this firsthand in georgia. this guy was texting individual

legislators and having conversations and phone records. there's witnesses and evidence that's going to be embarrassed. >> let's go back to dana in d.c. >> thank you. up next, what might the legal case against the former president look like? more cnn coverage after a very quick break. ststay with us.

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. turns out even jack smith can't resist a $5 footlong. that's according to what we see right there. new and exclusive cnn video of the special counsel at subway declining, though, to respond to reporters' questions about today's big news, a target letter sent to the former president of the united states. cnn's evan perez was there trying to track down the special counsel. i won't ask you all of the less important things about what he got and how he paid and all that. what is important is the imagery here. they clearly wanted us to see him and that image to be very different from what we saw in

the former president's post, which is that he's a deranged individual. >> yeah. i mean, look, i can count probably five or six sandwich shops between his office and that location that he was at earlier today. he stood in line like everybody else, and i couldn't tell whether it was a footlong or is it -- was it a 6 inch sub, but look, i mean, we now are on watch for when this potential indictment is coming. the last time we waited about three weeks between the time of the target lete time that the former president was informed that he was indicted. part of that was because of donald trump and his legal team's effort to delay things, you know. they asked for a meeting with the justice department to try to delay things, so we don't know, dana, right now, how long it will be before the former president gets told what happens here. it could be as soon as thursday when we might see the grand jury

return an indictment. >> absolutely. then, of course, we have going on in florida, movement on the other trial, the one that we know, where there has been an indictment, a federal indictment, and the questions about the timing of that is happening this afternoon. evan, thank you so much for that. great reporting. much more on cnn's special coverage right after this. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of goooogle also defends these services for everyone who o lives here. ♪

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