quote, make bad decisions and do bad things without giving any specifics. san francisco's attorney general is pushing back saying no one deserves to be killed whether or not they've done drugs. as for the suspect, he had his arraignment postponed for third time today and is now expected in court on the 18th of this month. the news continues here on cnn. ♪ anderson, thank you. good evening, everyone. i'm abby phillip. we begin tonight with breaking news. we are getting word that the suspect in the killings of five family members and neighbors in texas has now been captured. the fbi will hold a news conference very soon on that manhunt. the alleged killer was asked by neighbors to stop shooting before he turned the gun on them. a 9-year-old boy and his mother were among those who were senselessly killed. the suspect is an undocumented immigrant, who had been deported four times over the last decade. so we'll get the news conference to you as soon as it happens. just a short time from now.

but that is where in cnn's ed lavender is in texas right now. ed, what do we know about this arrest? >> reporter: well, we know this arrest took place in a small town of cut and shoot, texas, which is about 10 to 11 miles north of where we are here in the cleveland area of texas, which is about an hour's drive north of houston. so, in the four days that francisco oropesa has been on the run from law enforcement, he has not traveled a great distance. and i think what we have seen over the last couple of days with patrols in the area, there was always this inclination, this thinking, that this suspect perhaps didn't travel very far from this area, even though fbi officials were saying earlier today, they have been following every possible lead in connecting with law enforcement contacts here in the state and across the country and even across the border. because this suspect is a

mexican national, that concern has always been that perhaps he was figuring out some way of getting back south of the border to escape the pursuit of him here in the cleveland, texas, area. but that appears not to be the case. abby, i can tell you i've been able to speak with two different family members of the victims that were killed in the friday night attack, the long-time partner of one of the victims, simply said in a quick phone call, as you can imagine, it was rather chaotic for the family here in the last 30 minutes or so as they've been trying to process this news, he simply said, we are so happy. we also spoke with the brother-in-law of wilson garcia, who you have seen in our coverage over the last few days. and he said, you know, they're still trying to figure out -- the family members, there's a video of this arrest. they were looking at this video very closely, trying to compare and see the tattoos on this suspect that they knew that he had. they were trying to figure out if this, indeed, is the suspect that they were looking for.

and everything that they said, all the tattoos that they knew he had matched. so they seemed very confident this was indeed the suspect that was behind this brutal attack last friday night. but what is also interesting and speaks to the chaotic situation about how quickly this appears to have unfolded here this afternoon is that none of the family members i've spoken with say they have been contacted by law enforcement to tell them that this was happening. so that communication from law enforcement to the family, the victims -- the families of the victims has not, from what i can gather so far, happened. i imagine that will happen quickly. but clearly a sense of relief for family members who have been dealing with this ordeal for days now. >> yeah, sense of relief for that family and also people in the surrounding area as the suspect was considered armed and dangerous. ed, thank you very much. we'll bring you that press conference as soon as it happens. >> tonight, president biden and the nation are staring down two major deadlines. one that could result in

economic catastrophe, and the other that may result in a massive surge at the border. the president ordering the deployment of 1,500 active duty troops to assist u.s. border agents who are trying to manage a migrant crisis that is likely to only worsen in the coming weeks. approximately 2,500 national guard members, they're already there. the pentagon says this new batch will start arriving as early as next wednesday. that is the eve of the end of title 42, the pandemic-era border policy that has allowed the u.s. to turn away thousands of migrants and asylum seekers on public health grounds. and that order went into effect in the trump administration, but it will expire next thursday on may 11th, the very same day the national covid health emergency officially ends. now, some border cities are bracing for impact, while others, they're already feeling it. like downtown el paso, where shelters are overflowing, migrants are camped all over the streets.

and that is where rosa flores is right now with those migrants who are huddled near a church shelter. rosa, can you describe for us, what is happening on the ground right now in el paso? what are those migrants telling you? >> reporter: you know, abby, a lot of heart breaking stories. just to show you where i'm at, the church that you are talking about is what you see behind me. all of the streets around here are packed with migrants. the sidewalk where i'm walking, turns into a bed overnight for hundreds of migrants that don't have a place to go. now, this family, from venezuela, is very gracious. they are willing to share their story with us. this family is from venezuela. [speaking non-english] >> reporter: can you tell us why you left venezuela?

>> she says that the situation in venezuela is very difficult and really what a lot of individuals like her want to do in the united states is work. [speaking non-english] she told me she traveled about a month and a half to get here. i'm asking, what was the most difficult part . >> she says the worst part was going through the gap. she says her family saw people who died in the jungle.

[speaking non-english] >> reporter: where are you going to sleep tonight? she says that she and her children are going to be sleeping here on the street. and i promised this little boy i would ask him a question. i'm going to ask him the question. [speaking non-english] >> reporter: what is your dream in the united states? >> he says he wants to visit colombia. and he says that he loves pancakes. he loves pizza. and he hopes to get an education in the united states. abby, back to you. >> all right, rosa flores. that is incredible interview to hear from those individuals. thank you so much for bringing that to us. and now more perspective

from chad wolf the former acting homeland security secretary under president trump. chad, thank you for joining us. i actually want to get your reaction to what we just saw there. there's a lot of policy that i do want to discuss with you, but of course there are people behind all of this. a woman and her two young children leaving, you know, venezuela, going through a forest where they could easily have died to come to the united states because what they're fleeing is so terrible. what do you say to that woman and to her children tonight? >> well, absolutely. there's a number of heart breaking stories and of course you just showed one. there are many others of a lot of individuals that want to come to the united states, the greatest country in the world. there's a lot of opportunity here. but we need to make sure that individuals that want to come here come the legal way and not illegally. and i think that's what is driving the crisis along that border. as we heard, most of them want jobs. they want economic opportunity.

they want the chance at a better life. god love them for that, but again we need to make sure the legal pathways that a number of individuals can enter the country are the right way to do it. and it's the orderly way. that's what's driving this crisis at the moment is the number of illegal individuals crossing that border. we need to get them back into legal pathways so we have some control, order and process along that border. >> what you're describing, a legal pathway, is going to require congress to do something. they've declined to do that. failed to do that for many, many years now. you know, what we hear from the republican side of the aisle, your side of the aisle, is that we want more border security. we want more enforcement at the border. and let's put that on the table. but my question to you is, where is the compromise? what do you think republicans should put on the table to offer to the other side that can get the country closer to actual progress on policy reform, immigration reform? >> well, i think it's important

to remember there's over 70 different visas that the u.s. offers now for individuals to come in, either to work, to visit, and alike. there are a number of legal pathways today that are available to a number of individuals to come into the country. yes, they can be reformed. there's immense amount of fraud in those visa programs that really haven't been altered in some decade. so, yes, obviously congress needs to get to work at that. at the beginning of this, you need to secure the border and make that an orderly process. there's no incentive for individuals to be vetted. if they can walk across and receive a work permit. there's legal ways to vet individuals so we know who is coming into the country, so they're not a public safety threat. they're not a national security threat. and i think that's important. i think that's what we lost sight of over the last 26 to 27 months here when we don't know who is coming into this country unfortunately because of the crisis along that border. >> i mean, i heard you just say we need to do the enforcement

part first, but it does seem like you're not going to be able to just do the enforcement and not deal with people like that woman that we were just discussing who are already here. so, what's the -- i mean, is it possible here that republicans would agree to do these things simultaneously? and what's stopping them from coming to the negotiating table with a real comprehensive plan here? >> well, we see that there is actually a plan. and republicans in the house have passed a couple of different bills. i think it will be on the floor next week. but i think what you saw from this administration, which i have been critical of, i don't think that's a surprise, is that their way to deal with the security issue along that border is to talk about amnesty for individuals here. i think you got to get serious about stopping the current flow. you have to get serious about putting in measures that are going to secure that border so that you funnel people to legal ports of entry and so we're able to vet them, check them out so we understand who is coming into the front door to this country.

and if you don't do that and really need to do that first and foremost because we have seen and time and time again and the facts show you that if you don't do that and you want to continue to reform the legal pathways, it's not going to work at the end of the day. yes, you need both. but i continue to contend that you need to secure that border first and then you can talk about reforming the various legal pathways to bring individuals into the country. >> let me get you to respond to this from new york city mayor eric adams. he's been talking about texas governor greg abbott bussing migrants from the border to democratic-led cities notably without any coordination. take a listen. >> governor abbott sent asylum seekers to new york, black mayor, to washington, black mayor, to houston, black mayor, to los angeles, black mayor, to denver, black mayor. he passed over thousands of cities to land here. i cannot ignore the fact that governor abbott sent migrants

only to cities where there are black mayors. and is undermining our cities. >> and so what's your response to that? also, why isn't greg abbott the governor of texas, sending migrants to other parts of the country where actually they might need people to come. there are so many parts of this country that are short on workers, agricultural workers, construction workers. why isn't he sending people to those parts of the country, too? >> well, you would certainly need to ask governor abbott on the selection of where he sends those buses. but, it should be noted that the mayor of el paso is also sending buses of migrants to places like denver and other places. i think what you see here is that texas has been bombarded over the last 28 months from this border crisis. they are out of shelter capacity. they are out of resources. and they have been begging the federal government to step in to do its job. the federal government has refused to date. so they've had to take these measures to move people out of the state of texas and move them

into areas that have sanctuary policies that will care for these individuals. and it has also sparked a debate, right? you have the mayor of el paso -- sorry, the mayor of new york city visiting el paso. why is he doing that? he wants to understand the crisis that's impacting his city and calling on the biden administration to do more at the end of the day. so i think it's important we now have bipartisan consensus -- >> don't you think a little coordination is worthwhile here, even if that's the objective is to spark a conversation? why not just give these cities a heads up? >> sure. i think coordination is always in the benefit, right? any time that you're moving mass groups of individuals like this, i'm all in favor of coordination. so i don't think you'll get any debate from me there. but again, i think what we're seeing here is we now have bipartisan consensus both from republicans and democratic mayors that the federal government needs to do something to stem this crisis because it's not only affecting rural communities in the state of texas and arizona and along that

border, but it's now impacting big cities around this country as well. and of course, every community in america is being ravaged by fentanyl that's coming across almost exclusively across that southern border controlled by the cartels. >> all right. chad wolf, thank you very much for joining us here tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. and just moments from now, the fbi in texas, they'll be holding a news conference on the capture of the suspect in the killings of five people, including a 9-year-old child. that suspect, the undocumented immigrant who had been deported four times. plus the markets today falling as the nation inches closer to default unless washington acts. the problem is, republicans in congress, they're not going to budge. and president biden is already drawing a line in the sand. so we'll talk to a key economic player in the biden white house next. ♪ create something new? our dell technologies advisors can provide you with the t tools and expertise you need to bring out the innovator in you.

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may 9th, that's the date you should have circled in your calendar. a meeting at the white house with president biden and congressional leaders from both parties is scheduled for then. and the mission is to agree on a plan to pay america's bills. the debt ceiling has been raised 78 times since 1960. and in a town where leverage is power, how these meetings go is usually an indicator of the dynamic at that particular time. so take, for example, 2011. that's when talks collapsed after john boehner stopped taking the president's calls. that led visibly angry president

obama to go on national television and summon leadership to the white house on a saturday. >> i told speaker boehner, i told democratic leader nancy pelosi, i've told harry reed and mitch mcconnell, i want them here at 11:00 a.m. tomorrow. we have run out of time. and they are going to have to explain to me how it is that we are going to avoid default. >> so, by 2017, it was donald trump now. he was fighting with his own party, blaming paul ryan and republicans for what he called a mess. all while describing his white house sitdown with both parties like this to reporters on air force one. >> we had a very good meeting with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer. we agreed to a three-month extension on debt ceiling, which they consider to be sacred, very important. always we'll agree on debt

ceiling. automatically because of the importance of it. >> but less than two years later, meetings between trump and leadership were regularly contentious and that would be putting it mildly. in january of 2019, the president stormed out of a meeting over a potential government shutdown and in october a meeting over turkey ended with nancy pelosi and the president accusing each other of having, quote, a meltdown. so the middle of all of that, the debt ceiling was quietly announced. it was raised in a tweet and in comments like this -- >> i said -- i remember to senator schumer and to nancy pelosi, would anybody ever use that to negotiate with? they said absolutely not. that's a sacred element of our country. they can't use the debt ceiling to negotiate. >> things have changed. but reason we're telling you this is because what happens in these meetings they directly affect your pocketbook.

that's a fact that's especially true for the 66 million americans who are relying on social security. that's the same for veterans or for active duty troops who may miss paychecks if the debt ceiling is not raised. and anyone who has been trying to buy a home, only to see interest rates keep climbing in recent months. so, those dates on the calendar, like may 9th, they matter more than to just investors and to economists. june 1st, that's another date for your calendar. that's when all of this could go from theet ret kal to very real and very painful for those of you who rely on the government for money. and that is why the treasury secretary says that the u.s. could run out of cash to pay its debts. meanwhile, the president has a trip to japan and another trip to australia. and that means that president biden will be out of the country at a very critical period of time. so with us now is the deputy

director for the national economic council over at the white house. thank you very much for joining us. so first, i want to raise to you a prospect that we're now hearing from over on capitol hill. some lawmakers, senator rick scott, a republican, he's saying maybe we need 30 more days. a 30-day extension to try to get to a deal. would the white house be open to that? >> well, i'm not going to negotiate here on tv, but i will say that it's congress's responsibility to address the debt limit and to do so without conditions. it's nonnegotiable. the reason why the president has been saying for months now that we got to take the possibility of default off the table. as you detailed there, the consequences of default are severe. there isn't a person in america who wouldn't feel the impact of a default. we would likely go into a recession. we would see mortgage rates and credit card rates and small business loan rates go up. social security checks, payments for military members would be in

jeopardy. so the consequences are severe. at the same time, the president has made completely clear for months again that he is perfectly willing to sit down with speaker mccarthy and all the congressional leadership to have a conversation about tax and spending policy, about our budget. he's laid out our budget in early march, in detail, the spending programs he's in favor of, the tax policies he's in favor of. we are more than happy to have a conversation with republicans why we prefer our vision to their's. what we can't do is have a conversation whether we're going to default or not. the donsconsequences are too se. >> i understand that's your position. today is may 2nd. may 9th is when the president scheduled this meeting. why not say i want the republicans and democrats at the white house tomorrow. that would be today. republicans passed their version of what they want to see in the debt ceiling. the president has his budget. why not meet this week? >> well, my understanding is that it's out of respect for the

schedule of the congressional leadership including speaker mccarthy, who i believe has been abroad this week. i know the house is out of session. so we want to make sure that all participants can appear in person for that meeting. >> although, my understanding is that speaker mccarthy said he would return -- he would come back in order to do this. i imagine you would agree this is important enough. >> sure. well, look, on may 9th, coming up very shortly, the president will have a good conversation with these folks. he'll make clear two things. number one, that we cannot have a default and congress needs to stop wasting time and move towards a clean increase of the debt ceiling without any conditions attached. but also talk about initiating a separate process where we can talk about tax and spending policy. as i said, the president's budget is a vision for cutting our deficit by $3 trillion over the next ten years while continuing to invest in programs we all rely upon and by asking the super wealthy and big corporations to pay their fair share. i think it's a very different vision from what the republicans laid out in their debt ceiling bill, which would take a hammer

to programs that middle class families rely upon, 22% cut on things like veteran's medical care, air traffic control, on education, meaning a loss of potentially 60,000 teachers from classrooms across the country. we have two different visions how to move our economy forward and happy to have that discussion with republicans just like we did last year when we came to bipartisan agreement. >> senator, joe manchin, democrat, he said he wants to see negotiations -- i want you to just take a listen to what he says about where things stand right now. >> it's unsustainable. the direction we're going now, with 31.5 trillion and then basically saying that -- well, we're going to do is not talk about it but then come back and talk about it. why not talk about it now, make sure we have agreement that this is something we all are concerned about. there's no such thing as a red line. the bottom line is we're here to negotiate. >> so, why not talk about it now?

and i take it you want a clean debt ceiling raise. but is the president willing to have the conversation right now about those broader issues as senator manchin is asking? >> sure, absolutely. we have been happy to do that for many months now. the president made clear that ever since he laid out his budget in march he's invited speaker mccarthy and the house republicans to present their budget to have an informed discussion about exactly what senator manchin is talking about there, how we make progress on the fiscal trajectory of this country. like i said before, the president laid out a plan to cut the deficit by $3 trillion. and preserve the programs that families rely upon. again, we are perfectly happy to have a conversation with speaker mccarthy and all the congressional leadership about how we enact that vision and why we think it's superior to the significant cuts that the speaker and his caucus are pushing for and that would, according to moody's push this country closer to a recession and cost us 800,000 jobs just in the next year. again, it's important to take a

step back and realize the current position of the house republican caucus is either we default and move the country immediately into a recession, or we accept their massive spending cuts to middle class programs that would cost us 800,000 jobs and push us closer to a recession. that's not really a good set of choices we're dealing with. >> all right. well, there will be much more on this topic in the coming weeks. we appreciate you joining us bharat ramamurti, thank very much. new signs of serious friction between ukraine and the united states. hear what the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy is now admitting. plus, kevin mccarthy receiving a rare praise from the white house after this moment. ♪ >> i do not support what your country has done to ukraine. i do not support your killing of the children either. ♪ i love watchching the game with you. call 1-800-direcectv to get a $200 reward card.

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rare praise for the speaker of the house coming from an you can likely source, the white house press podium. when russia reporter asked the question implying he doesn't support ukraine, kevin mccarthy said this -- >> i vote for aid for ukraine. i support aid for ukraine. i do not support what your country has done to ukraine. i do not support your killing of the children either. >> so that comment drew this praise at today's white house press briefing. >> we're glad to hear that speaker mccarthy agrees it is vital to keep supporting ukraine. it was good to hear him push back on the propaganda put forth by a russian state news outlet,

as we have seen. >> i'm joined now by "the new york times," sara ellison with the "washington post" and tom nichols of the atlantic. tom, first of all, it's crazy that it has to be said. i don't support the killing of children in ukraine. but he's saying it because there have been some questions about how much he and other republicans support the efforts of ukraine to not be dominated by russia in this war. >> right. that's the first thing you have to say is isn't it great that someone can actually say this outloud that you don't support russia in this war, but i think the overall problem is that there's a small part of the gop base that is basically siding with russia on this war in a kind of almost reflexive opposition to whatever the democrats and the so-called foreign policy establishment are doing. and so now, mccarthy has distanced himself from that finally. but, there is a block of voters

that he was speaking to up until this moment. >> is it reflexive? or are they trying to actually shift the dynamic here going from, you know the kind of knee owe cons of the bush era, to the trump, america-first something? >> certainly it's an active effort from that slice of the base. i think that's the space where kevin mccarthy is coming from. i was at the munich security conference earlier this year and you saw support from big factions of the republican party there. but it's been speaker mccarthy push and pull because you have that america first wing, people like marjorie taylor greene, matt gaetz tried to push him on this issue. he walked a thin line here, but yesterday, particularly when pushed by that outlet, he came out strong. i think the white house was also buttering him up ahead of those debt ceiling negotiations, two things done at once. >> can i play -- this is marjorie taylor greene who has been at the forefront of a lot of this. one of the loudest voices

pushing for the united states to distance itself from ukraine. >> there's not bipartisan support among the american people for fighting a war in ukraine that does nothing for americans except force them to pay for it. >> and by the way, cameo there from tucker carlson who also has historically been one of the loudest voices on this. >> absolutely. i was talking to people who worked with tucker earlier, and they were saying that if tucker were still on air, kevin mccarthy wouldn't be able to say those kinds of things. i think that kind of alignment between the maga part of the republican political base and that part of the conservative media is very tight. and i think it's something that we are going to see a lot more from. >> right. remember how ron desantis walked back on ukraine. it was on tucker carlson's show that that happened. that was one of the largest and most important forces. i think that's a great point. >> i wonder what ron desantis is going to do now? >> well, ron desantis -- the last time ron got caught between

tucker carlson and fox news on one hand and his donors and the republican establishment on the other and it was the worst of all worlds. he said it and flip-flopped and had to unsay it the next day. but, at this point, now there's room again to run to the right of kevin mccarthy. i think it's absolutely right that carlson's absence clears a little bit of the air here. but it's also -- i think that's really an important point is not majority of the gop, not a majority of the american public. >> it's not a majority of the american public but a huge chunk -- a bigger chunk than i think we have seen in recent history. but, everyone stay with us. coming up next, what it's like to take on both fox news and also its biggest star and then watch tucker carlson fall in the wake of multiple lawsuits, including her own, while the former fox news producer, she is not finished. she just sat down with cnn and you'll hear what she had to say coming up next. you can be the difference. ♪

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tonight, former fox producer abby grossberg is speaking out about the culture of fear and intimidation that ousted host

tucker carlson, allegedly fostered at fox news. but it wasn't just among the employees. grossberg, whose explosive lawsuit against fox marked a turning point for dominion in its case against the network, also spoke out about the power that carlson tried to wield over politicians. politicians, like the house speaker, kevin mccarthy. >> i don't think journalists should have that kind of power to threaten and bully people. tucker did and revelled in it. >> he enjoyed that, that was part of his persona. >> yeah. yeah. they believe that he could broker who was speaker, house speaker. he wanted to do that live on air, but kevin mccarthy said no. >> what do you mean? he wanted to do that live on air? >> his plan was to have kevin mccarthy come on the show. so fast forward to january 5th. they start asking me to book mccarthy on the show that night. i had worked with him a lot when i was at sunday morning futures and had a relationship with his

team. that afternoon, justin came in and said here's the plan. tuck ler first have kevin on. hear him beg and gravel. then we'll bring in matt gaetz and matt gaetz will then kind of set his terms. then tucker will set his terms that mccarthy has to agree to -- >> tucker carlson had terms -- >> had terms, yeah. and we're going to make this whole thing happen on air and save the republican party. fortunately for mccarthy's sake he said no. >> cnn's oliver darcy is joining us at the table. this fox news saga is not just about the media it's about politics. this is a figure in the media who was as much a player on the chess board of american politics as pretty much anybody else. and there you have the proof. >> yeah. and he was probably, arguably the most influential force inside the modern day republican party outside of donald trump. and with donald trump not in office, tucker carlson on his fox news show and that fox news

perch was extremely influential. she describes him as a journalist. but i think it's more appropriate to describe him as an extremist. an extremist who pushed the republican party to the extreme, whether it was with casting conspiracies about the covid vaccines, about what happened on january 6th, sewing doubt on the election in 2020. there were so many conspiracy theories that carlson floated on his program that ended up taking hold in the republican party. and he gave voice to those. and you were talking about how kevin mccarthy probably wouldn't have come out against russia in their war in ukraine this week if carlson were on that program. i think that's very true. it's going to be interesting to see how the republican party adapts without this extreme voice whipping them into a certain direction. >> yeah. i mean, sara, you've been following this closely as well. >> yeah. i think that what oliver says about his influence is absolutely true. but i also think that tucker carlson is not entirely done.

you know, he's sort of plotting his return, much the way that donald trump is sort of plotting his return. so we have to see the ways in which the sort of ousted -- you have the most powerful person in media ousted from his chair and trump who is the most sort of followed politician, most powerful person in the republican party, both working their way back. and i think it's going to be a test for the kevin mccarthys of the world to see what they're going to do when these people re-emerge. >> but while tucker carlson was undeniably powerful, that voice was really influential, i think anyone besides donald trump did not wield that level of power in republican politics. he's emblematic of a fox news that had pushed that sort of grievance-driven rhetoric and grievance style of journalism for a long time. you had seen people come before him which had really made that style more popularized and pushed that network. and then thus the electorate to the right. even times when fox news and donald trump weren't on the same

side, but he was able because of how deeply rooted grievance was in the republican base to push back against fox news sometimes. and so, certainly tucker carlson wielded that in a deeply effective manner that made his show so much more popular than others. but certainly he's not the only one who was doing that on that network and through that party and the show the network shifted. >> he didn't honestly invent the genre. he perfected it in a certain moment, right? in our politics, one of the other things about abby grossberg that i think is really interesting. i think people wonder, what is this fox news -- former fox news producer doing? how did she end up here? she actually answered that to anderson, explaining why she went from being a part of the problem to being almost like a whistleblower. >> i was definitely seduced for about a week by those ideas as tens of millions of americans were. and wondering if there could be

evidence. that evidence never came. so for me it took a few days to kind of just realize that the whole thing was a ruse. >> maria bart romo did not push back on sidney powell or rudy giuliani. did you feel an obligation to get in her ear and say you got to push back? >> yeah. and i had statements and i had statements and -- >> you put up a deposition -- a dm dominion statement on the screen and she didn't read it. >> ultimately it was up to her to read it and she didn't. >> do you buy that? >> you know, it's possible that she still believes it, but i think that whole notion that you get seduced by this and you live in this kind of crazy bubble where there's nobody at the table who stops for a moment and says, by the way, that's crazy. you know, that everybody says, well, run with it. tucker carlson, as you were saying, abby, he perfected this

being able to hold the microphone in front of the speaker and get that feedback going because he wasn't just pumping it, he was listening to what was coming back. amplifying it back out over and over and over again. i think that's where really the secret of his success was as opposed to bart romo who went on and said i believe it and i'm not going to interrupt rudy giuliani while he's doing this. >> i want to play one more part of abby grossberg's comments. this is about -- well, the c word. >> so, people got a message from tucker carlson that it was okay to use the c word or whatever it was. and they felt emboldened to do that, too. >> i think that they took pride, joy in doing it. they thought it was fun. it was just really kind of a bro fest there. >> you know, tucker carlson plays the provocateur on television. it's almost like an act, like alex jones in some ways. what she's describing is a culture that was real inside of fox news. >> and shocking to some extent

that this culture still comes after, you know, carlson replaced bill o'reilly ousted over sexual harassment. and so that carlson would come in and use the c word freely is sort of stunning. but to tom's point, i think it's important to point out that at the end of the day, the murdochs are in charge of this network. they're the ones who are the captains of this ship. so them letting maria go on with election lies or tucker carlson run his show this way, this is on them. they allowed for this. where were they? >> yeah. look, what you're saying -- almost $800 million settlement here is proof that they knew that they probably couldn't defend this in a court and come out of it without losing at least a bit of a haircut there financially. but, oliver, thank you for joins us. tom, asteed, thank you all very much. stand by, we're awaiting that news conference from the fbi on tonight's dramatic capture of that suspect, wanted for the

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after days on the run, the man hunt is over for the suspect in the killings of five family members and neighbors in texas. he is an undocumented immigrant, who is deported four times, and the fbi will have a news conference in just moments. first, cnn's josh campbell is joining us live, josh, you are learning some new details from your sources about how authorities were able, ultimately, to find the suspect after just days ago, they were, saying they had zero leads. >> that's right, law enforcement has been very quiet about this investigation as it's ongoing. they've been blasting out the suspect photo, as well as information about those 80,000 dollar reward, as they've been fanning out across south texas to try and find him. i'm told from law enforcement sources, ultimately, what authorities were able to do, surveil the suspect's wife, which led to a resident that

was associated with the family member, they, are tactical officers found the suspect, 38 francisco oropeza, hiding in a closet, i'm told. he was taken into custody without incident. he has been booked into the county jail, the sheriff issuing a statement just a short time ago. thanking the multitude of law enforcement agencies that worked on this case, to try and find the suspect. also thinking members of the community you have to remember, people there in southeast texas, particularly, were going about their lives in fear for the past several days, as this suspect, who is accused of this brutal, heinous attack, was on the run. it's interesting to note, this was a national domestic investigation, this also involved mexican officials as well. the suspect, they didn't know where there he was here or in mexico, the breaking news tonight, he has been taken into custody, near the town of cut and shoot, texas. i'm told by three law enforcement sources, we'll be hearing from the fbi and local law enforcement, at the top of the hour, with more details on this investigation what's next. >> josh campbell, thank you very much. we will take that news

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new dashcam video tonight, showing the moment that a speeding car spins out of control, nearly killing a police officer.

that dramatic moment happening there in virginia, the officer was conducting a routine traffic stop, when it bmw lost control and flew across the highway. the driver, a 17 year old, was going at 120 miles per hour. miraculously, there were no major injuries. and the teenager has been charged with reckless driving. thank you for joining us here on cnn, cnn tonight with alison camerota is starting right now. hey, alison. >> great to see you, thanks so much, good evening, everyone. i'm alison camerota, we'll come to cnn tonight. breaking news, the suspect in the massacre of five people in texas, including a nine-year-old boy, has been captured. we expect an fbi press conference at any moment, francisco oropesa was a rescue tonight in the town called cut and shoot, texas. that's around 17 miles from the scene of the killings. let's go right to ed lavandera, he's live for us in cleveland, texas, the scene of the killings. what do we know, ed? >> hey