>> as we remain number one, then we'll deter the war that people worry about, a great power wore between china and the united states. >> crucially this war game does not ask the question of what would happen to make china decide to use military force to invade taiwan? that remains an open question. especially given the united reaction of the west to russia's invasion of ukraine which crippled russia's economy. would china run the same risk or use the industrial and economic power to control taiwan instead of its military? and that, erin, is a critical question. >> warren, thank you very much. sobering. thank you for joining us. don't forget, you can watch "out front" on cnn go. ashgs con a.c. 360 starts right now. >> welcome, the harry interview. my conversation with prince harry that i did for cbs' 60 minutes.

tonight the interview and we'll discuss the potential fallout from it and what harry reveals in the new book which comes out on tuesday. prince harry may have stepped back from his royal duties in 2020, but he and his wife certainly haven't stepped away from the spotlight. just last month they appeared in a six part netflix documentary about their relationship and their decision to leave the royal lives behind. but now the 38-year-old prince harry is telling his own story in "spare," a nod to the backup role in the line of succession. it is a stunning break to royal protocol. it is deeply personal and account of prince harry's decade struggle of grief after the dench his mother and revealing look at his fractured relationships with his father, king charles, stepmother, the queen consort camilla and his brother prince william. the heir to his spare. you write about a contentious meeting you had with him in 2021. you said i looked willie, looked at him for the first time since we were boys.

i took it all in. his familiar xoul, his alarming baldness, famous resemblance to mommy which is fading with time with age. pretty cutting. >> i don't see it as cutting at all. you know, my brother and i love each other. i love him deeply. there has been a lot of pain between the two of us, especially the last six years. none of anything that i have written, anything i've included is ever intended to hurt my family. but it does give a full picture of the situation as we were growing up. and also squashes this idea that somehow my wife was the one that destroyed the relationship between these two brothers. >> i think so many people around the world watched you and your brother grow up. and feel like you two were inseparatable. and yet in reading the book, you have lived separate lives from the time your mom died.

even when you were in the same school in high school. >> sibling rivalry. >> your brother told you pretend dwoent we don't know each other. >> yeah. at the time it hurt. we're at the same school. i haven't seen you for ages. now we get to hang out together. he said, no, when we're at school, we don't know each other. but you're right, you hit the nail on the head. we had a very similar traumatic experience and then we dealt with it two very different ways. >> william tried to talk to you occasionally about your mom. but as a child you could not -- you couldn't respond? >> for me, it was never a case of i don't want to talk about it with you. i just don't know how to talk about it. i never, ever thought that maybe talking about it with my brother or with anybody else at that point would be therapeutic. >> in august 1997, harry and william were vacationing in scotland with their father. harry was 12, william 15.

they were asleep at the castle on august 31st, when harry was awakened business his father who told him his mother was in a car crash in paris. and in the book you write, he says, they tried, darling boy. i'm afraid tshe didn't make it. did you cry? >> no. not a single tear. i was in shock. you know? 12 years old. sort of 7:30 in the morning, early. your father comes in and sits on your bed and puts his hand on your knee and tells through is an accident. i couldn't believe. >> and you write in the book that pa didn't hug me. wasn't great as show emotions under normal circumstances but his hand did fall on my knee and he said it's going to be okay. after that, nothing was okay for a long time. >>, no nothing was okay. >> harry he says his memories of the next few dawes are

fragmented. but he does remember this. greeting mourners outside kensington palace the day before his mother's funeral. when you see those videos now, what do you think? >> i think it's bizarre. because i see william and me smiling. i remember the guilt that i felt. >> guilt about -- >> the fact that people -- we were meeting. we were showing more emotion than we were showing. maybe more emotion than we even felt. >> they were crying but you wornt? >> there was a lot of tears. i talk about how wet people's hands were. i couldn't understand it at first. their hands were wet. i do remember one of the strangest parts is taking flouers from people and then placing those flowers with the rest of them. as if i was some sort of middle person for their grief. and that really stood out for me. >> the funeral on a cool

september morning, was watched by as many as 2 1/2 billion people around the world. perhaps the most indelible image, prince harry and his brother walking behind their mother's casket on the way to westminster abbey. what do you remember about that walk? >> how quiet it was. i remember the occasional wail and screaming of someone. and then the horses on the road. the bridles of the horses, the gun carriage, the wheels, the occasional gravel stone under your shoe. but mainly the silence. >> after the service, princess diana's body was brought for burial to her family's estate. >> once my mother's coffin went into the ground, that's the first time i actually cried. yeah. never another time. >> all through your teenage years? you didn't cry about it? >> no. >> you didn't believe she was dead. >> for a long time. i just refuse to accept she was gone. part of, you know, she would

never do this to us. but also part of maybe this is all part of a plan. >> i mean, you really believed that maybe she had just decided to disappear for a time? >> for a time and she would call us and we were going to join her. >> how long did you believe that? >> years. many, many years. william and i talked about it as well. he had similar thoughts. >> you write in the book, i often say it to myself first day in the morning, maybe this is the day? maybe this is the day she's going to reappear? >> yeah. hope. i had huge amounts of hope. >> he held on to that hope into adulthood when harry was 20shgs 20, he asked to see the police report about the crash that hild her mother, her boyfriend and the driver henry paul while being pursued by paparazzi in a paris tunnel. the files contained photographs of the crash scene. why did you d. you want to see it? >> mainly proof. proof she was in the car. proof that she was injured.

and proof that very paparazzi were ones taking photographs of her lying half dead on the backseat of the car. >> you write, i hadn't been aware at the moment, talking about looking at the pictures, the last thing mommy saw on this earth was a flash bulb. that's what you saw in the pictures? >> yes. pictures showed the reflection of a group of photographers taking photographs through the window and the reflection of the window was them. >> he only saw some of the photos. his private secretary dissuaded him from looking at the rest. >> all i saw is the back of my mom's head slumped on the backseat. there were other more gruesome photographs but i will be eternally grateful to him for denying me the ability to inflict pain on myself by seeing that. because that's the kind of stuff that sticks in your mind

forever. >> harry says he believed his mother might still be alive until he was 23. and visited paris for the first time. you told your driver i want to go to the tunnel where my mom died. >> i wanted to see whether it was possible driving at the speed that henry paul was driving that you could lose control of a car and play i into -- plow into a pillar. i need to take this journey. i need to ride the same route. >> the same tunnel, the same speed. >> all of it. >> your mother was going? >> yeah. >> william and i were told the event was like a bicycle chain. if you remove one of the chains, the ebnd result wouldn't have happened. but yet everybody got away with it. >> harry writes he and his brother weren't satisfied with the results of a 2006 investigation by london's metropolitan police won clueding diana's driver henry paul had been drinking and the crash was

a "tragic accident." >> william and i considered reopening the inquest. because there was so many gaps and so many holes it in. just didn't add up and didn't make sense. >> you would still like to do that? >> i don't even know if it's an option now. but, no, i think -- i would like to do that now? that's a hell of a question. >> do you feel you have the answers that you need to have? b. what happened to your mom? >> truth be known, no. i don't think i do. i don't think my brother does either. i don't think the world does. do i need any more than i already know? no. i don't think it would change much. >> harry says it wasn't until he served in combat with the british army in afghanistan that he finally found purpose and a sense of normalcy. >> my military career saved me. n. many regards. >> how so? >> got me out of the spotlight.

for the uk press. i was able to focus on a purpose larger than myself. to feel normal for the first time of my life and accomplish some of the biggest challenge that's i ever had. i was training to be an apache helicopter pilot. >> they don't care who they are. >> no, there is no prince autopilot button that you can press. ways a really good candidate for the military. i was a young nonmy 20s. suffering from shock that i was now only n. in the front seat of apache firing and being that to save and help anybody that was on the ground with a radio screaming we need support. we need air support. that was my calling. i felt healing from that. weirdly. >> in that multitasking, the brain work of that, that felt good to you? >> it felt like i was turning pain into a purpose.

i didn't have the awareness at the thyme was living any life in adrenaline. >>en that was the case from age 12 from the moment i was told my mom died. >> you said war didn't begin in afrg. it began in august 1997. >> yeah. the war for me unknowingly was when my mom died. >> who were you fighting? >> myself. i have a huge amount of frustration and blame towards the british press for their part in it. >> even at 12? at that young you were feeling that toward the british press? >> yeah. it was obvious to us as kids the british press's part in our mother's misery. i had a lot of anger inside of me that luckily ni never expressed to nifrnlt but i resulted to drinking because i wanted to numb the feeling. i wanted to distract myself from whatever i was thinking. and i would, you know, result to drugs as well. >> harry admits he smoked pot

and used cocaine and in his late 20s, he felt hopeless and lost. >> there was this weight on my chest that i felt for so many years. i was never able to cry. so i was constantly trying to find a way to cry. but even sitting on my sofa and going over as many memories as i could muster up about my mom and sometimes i watch videos online. >> of your mom? >> of my mom. >> thhoping to cry? >> and i couldn't. >> he sought out help from a therapist 7 years ago and tried other experimental treatments. >> you used psychedelic treatments. >> i would never recommend people to do this. but doing it with the right people, if you are suffering from a huge amount of loss, grief, our trauma, then these things have a way of working as

a medicine. >> they showed you something. what did they show you? >> for me, they cleared the windscreen, the windshield, the misery of loss. they cleared away this idea that i had in my head that my mother that, i needed to cry to prove to my mother that i missed her. when in fact, all she wanted was for me to be happy. >> we'll continue with part two of my interview shortly. first, joining us right now is cnn max foster and historian kate williams and bonnie grier, noted author and playwrite. >> max, this is a two part ibt view. one -- interview. the reason we wanted to start with the focus on princess diana and the experience of her death for harry is in reading the book, it's 460 pages, i mean, it is, yes, people are going to be paying most attention to all the revelations and the inside information that he's giving out that break the protocol of the

royal family. we'll show that shortly. but for me, i mean this is such a memoir about loss and grief and about the devastating impact of childhood traum yacha. the death of his mom that played out on a global scale. it's xrextraordinary to me how e life that he lived is so different than -- or his perception of himself and perception of his life is so different than the world's perception of what his life and his inner life must have been like growing up. i find that sort of dichotomy interesting. >> yeah. it's where we all connect with harry, right? the image of him walking behind the coffin and that utter sympathy you had for that young boy and so deeply affected. as you xpexplored, this is a historic part of the interview. it is a global event.

and you see him behind the coffin. and you try to get a sense of what was that wik aas like and have shown, brought that out. so it's incredibly powerful. and these images are on the world's conscienceness. and then, you know, you explore this part of, you know, he didn't -- he wondered if she was still alive. he didn't really believe she was dead until he saw the photos. and then he sees the paparazzi around the body. and this is utterly defining as you explore later on interview how from that moment on wards, he is at war really with the media. it's no the just the photographers. it's the news desks that buy the photographers. >> kate, what did you think of this side of harry, how much was new to you? does it inform at all the way kind of what is happening now? >> yes. it is heartbreaking.

i was so moved. he was guilty because he couldn't cry. i remember being out there with the crowds and everyone was weeping, the tears were falling. you were out there as a reporter that the grief was cataclysmic and harry, the greatest hearing william have the greatest right to grieve of all, he couldn't. he felt so guilty. and i was so moved about him talking about his feelings. and how he is speaking out, harry's book, really has been three things for me. a portrait of a very dysfunctional family. the relationships with the press and dysfunctional family and a portrait of a young boy losing his mother at this young age with very little support from within the family and also expected to play this role on the world stage. when he said my war began in 1997, that was, i think, a stunning revelation and really went to the heart of why he is still suffering now the loss of his mother and how much the

press had a role in that. >> bonnie, i mean again for me, the idea of how little we actually know about the people we think we know in public life, you know, how they see their lives, their inner life is so completely opposite from what people imagine it to be. >> well, anderson, this family is a little bit more than, you know, celebrities. i mean they are constitutional elements of the country. the head of the family is the constitutional head of state. his oldest is also in the constitution and the oldest after that are also in the constitution. so they become much more than a prominent family. they're actually the fabric of the country. and i can remember, i mean, i remember when charles and diana brought harry out of the wing and the day he was born. and watching this jolly redhead

boy that always had a smile on his face until that day when he was made to walk behind that coffin which is barbaric and also keeping in the tradition of the family. that is more than a familiarly. they are the state. so that is the issue i think that british people are going to have to come to grips w i think it's where harry and what you have shown in that interview, harry is challenging this. and this is really the conflict and clash that is going to come in the british body politic. >> it is also this whole notion of the heir and the spare which has been in tabloids, you know, it rhymes. it is obviously tabloid catnip. prince charles and i asked this to harry, but you know, prince charles is famously rumored to have said to diana after harry's birth, i did my job. i gave you an heir -- i gave you an heir and spare and my job is done.

i asked him if he thought that was a true story. he said based on the very sources he had talked to or who had told him about it, he probably thought it was true but also meant it in a joke. but that dynamic, it pops up throughout the book and throughout the relationship between prince william and prince harry. we all have this idea that -- at least if you see a lot of the coverage in the british tabloids since the whole rift, the argument is that meghan was the cause of that and i don't know to what degree that is true. but from what prince harry says in the book is from the time diana died, they lived two very separate lives and dealt with that grief in very separate ways. it's like they were on separate paths and part of that is the heir and spare dynamic. >> i mean, what charles said there is the brutal reality. this is a monarchy. it is built on hierarchy. and harry spoke to you about

that. and by any definition, you know, there are more senior people in the hierarchy. if you don't like the hierarchy, you don't like monarchy. and harry, of course, says does he believe in monarchy. that is the reality. i think what william would say is that they did everything they could to make harry not feel like a spare. they elevated him. they have something called the royal foundation. they work together initially harry and william and that was done for all of their charities. and i think william felt he was elevating what would be a traditional role for a spare. a spare in the past would just be, you know, visible and brought in if they're needed. so i think harry really struggled with that. and then the treatment, of course, from william that he felt he received as well, always being made to feel like a spare and ultimately when he found meghan and she wasn't happy with the situation either, they came together and realized they couldn't do this new longer. >> and, kate, one thing that

harry talks about is that his being dubbed the spare and his role as the spare, he felt he was more vulnerable to the british press than others in the royal familiarly. he was essentially expendable. and that particularly comes into play when he is making the argument that other members of the royal family as we'll see in the next part of the interview in particular, he says she was essentially throwing him under the bus. he was one of the bodies left in the street as she had a relationship with the british media. >> yes, i that i is exactly what harry is saying. harry feels he was the scapegoat that many of the royals used him to deflect from their own problems, insecurities and the bad stories about them. and particularly just as you say he talks about camilla. he said she was seen as a villian. she needed to rehabilitate her image and she did this by pushing forward negative stories about harry as the spare.

he is expendable. i thought you brought this out so cutely in the interview. the grief he suffered, the isolation and also as this spare, the title of the book, that very structure, i think, even though he says he supports the monarchy, does he blame it for so much of what went wrong. we have a situation in which one child gets everything and all the attention and the next child, he gets nothing but also is sold out to the press and that is why he was so unhappy and that is why you felt he had to leave. i think it really raises questions about the structure of monarchy spare and heir. the european walls don't do it like that. they have the jobs. they don't expect to be a backup royal. maybe that's the way we have to go. it's not humane the way it is at present. >> we have to take a short break. we'll have more with bonnie and kate and max. part of the interview you didn't see last night. why didn't he make mention of headline making comment that his wife gave saying that a family member expressed concerns about

what the skin color of first baby might be. also ahead, part two. he tells me why he called his stepmother camilla, quote, dangerous. >> i wanted her to be happy. maybe she would be less dangerous if she was happy. how was she dangerous? >> for the need to rehabilitate her image? >> that made her dangerous? >> becausesest connections she s for forging g within the british press. our smsmart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number.

welcome back. this special edition of 360. harry's memoir spare is anything but spare. unflattering portrayal of the royal family especially ka mill yachlt she married prince charldz in 2005. when princess diana referred to camilla as the third person in her marriage, the british tabloids ran with it and prince harry never forgot it. >> she was the villian. she was the third person in the marriage. she needed to rehabilitate her image. >> you and your brother both directly asked your dad not to marry her? >> yes. >> why? >> we didn't think it was necessary. we thought it was going to cause more harm than good. and that if he was now with his person, that surely that's enough y go that far? wh you don't necessarily need to? we wanted had him to be happy and we saw how happy he was with her. so at the time it was, okay.

>> you wrote she started campaigning in the british press to pave the way for a marriage and you wrote i even wanted her to be happy maybe she'd be less dangerous if she was happy. how was she dangerous? >> because of the need for her to rehabilitate her image. >> that made her dangerous? >> that made her dangerous because of the connections she was forging in the british press. and there is open willingness on both sides to trade information. and with the family built on hierarchy, and with her on the way to being queen consort, there was going to be people or bodies left in the street because of that. >> harry says over the years he was one of those bodies. he accuses camilla and his father at times of using him or williams to get better tabloid coverage for themselves. prince harry writes, ka mill yashgs quote, sacrificed me on her personal pr alter. >> if you are led to believe as a member of the family that on the front page and positive

headlines and positive story written about you is going to improve your reputation or increase the chances of you being accepted as monarch by the british public, then that's all what you're going to do. >> in his book, he writes when he introduced meghan to his family, his father took a liking to her initially. william was skeptical. disdainfully referring to her as an american actress. though harry doesn't specify who, he said other members of the roim yal family were uneasy well. >> before they even got to know her and the press jumped on that. >> what was the mistrust based on? >> the fact she was american, an actress, voizced, black, bi-racial with a black mother, four of the typical stereotypes that becomes a feeding frenzy. >> but all those things within the family also were sources of mistrust? >> yes. you know, my family read the

tabloids. it's laid out at breakfast. so whether you walk around saying you believe it or not, it's still leaving an imprint on your mind. it's very, very hard to get over that. and a large part of it for the family and also the british press and numerous other people is he's changed. she must be a witch. he's changed. as opposed to, yeah, i did change. and i'm really glad i changed. because rather than getting drunk falling out p clubs and taking drugs, i had now found the love of my life. and i now have the opportunity to start a family about her. >> soon after the relationship became public, harry insifrted on putting out a statement condemning the tabloid coverage of meghan and what he called, quote, the racial undertones of comment pieces. you write that your dad and brother william were furious with you for doing that.

why? >> they felt as though it made them look bad. they felt it was they didn't have a chance or weren't able to do that for their partners. what meghan had to go through is similar in some part to what kate and camilla went through. very different circumstances. but then you add in the race element which was what the press, british press jumped on straight away. i went through this increeddibl naive. i was probably bigoted before the relationship with megan. >> you didn't think you were bigoted before? >> i don't know. put it this way, i didn't see what i now see. >> they were married in may 2018 and n. a ceremony that seemed to promise a more modern and inclusive royal family and given the titles duke and duchess of sussex. but behind the scenes according to harry, william's mistrust of meghan worsened. did you ever try to meet with

william and kate to diffuse the tension? >> yep. >> how did that meet going? >> not particularly well. >> in early 2019, harry writes the ranker between he and willia william exploded. your arguments with your brother became physical. >> it was a buildup of frustration, i think, on his part. it was at a time where he was being told certain things by people within his office and the same time he was consuming a lot of the tabloid press and other stories. and he had a few issues which were based not on reality. and i was defending my wife. and he was coming for my wife. she wasn't there at the time. but through the things he was saying, i was defending myself and we moved from one room into the kitchen and his frustrations were growing and growing and

growing. he was shouting at me. i was shouting back at him. it wasn't nice. it wasn't pleasant at all. and he snapped. he pushed me to the floor. >> he knocked you over? >> he knocked me over. and you cut your back? >> i cut my back. i didn't know it at the time. but yeah, he apologized afterwards. it was a pretty bad experience. >> he asked you not to tell anybody. >> and i wouldn't have. i didn't until she saw on my back. she said what is that? i said -- what? i didn't know what she was talking about. i looked into the mirror. i hadn't seen it. >> meghan said that constant criticism lead her to contemplate suicide. >> the things terrified me the most is history repeating itself. >> you really feared that your wife meghan -- >> yes, i feared a lot the end result. the fact that i lost my mom when

i was 12 years could easily happen goen my wife. >> in january 2020, prince harry and meghan announced they intended to step back as senior members of the royal family. they moved to california three months later. then there was the headline grabbing interview with oprah winfrey and a deal with netflix worth a reported $100 million. critics say the duke and duchess are cashing in on their royal titles while they still can. >> why not renounce your titles as duke and duchess? >> and what difference would that make? >> one of the krit suchls that you received is that okay, fine, you want to move to california. you want to step back from the institutional role. why be so public? why reveal conversations you had with your father or with your brother? you say you tried to do this privately. >> and every single time i try to do it privately, there have been briefings and leakings and planting of stories against me and my wife. the family motto is never complain, never explain. but it's just a motto. and it doesn't really hold --

>> there's a lot of explaining and complaining done through leaks? >> through leaks. >> prince harry continues writing. >> so now trying to speak a language that perhaps they understand i will sit here and speak truth to you with the words that come out of my mouth rather than using someone else, an unnamed source to feed in lies or narrative to a tabloid media that literally radicalizes the readers to then potentially cause harm to my family. my wife, my kids. >> last month the british tabloid published a vicious column about meghan written by a tv host. it said i hate her. at night i'm unable to sleep because i lie there grinding my teeth and dreaming the day she is made to walk neighboringed in the streets while the crowds

chant shame and throw lumps of extrament at her. did that surprise you? >> did it surprise me? no. thank you for proving my point. >> is there any response from the palace? >> no. that's where silence is betrayal. >> a lot to talk about. i'm joined by max fost eastern bonnie and kate. there are a the lo of issues to talk about, the issue cof camila which is a big allegation made in this book. bonnie, i want to bring up something that wasn't included in the "60 minutes" interview. it took part. it was played on cbs mornings this morning. i asked harry about a comment that meghan, the duchess of sussex made to oprah in that headline making interview when they first came to the united states. before the netflix show. she said that a member of the

family had of harry's family had expressed concerns, conversations about the potential skin color of their first child. i want to play -- they didn't go any further in that interview. oprah pressed them. they didn't go any further. it was a huge story. in your interview with oip rashgs the most explosive claims is that a member of the royal family wondered how dark your child's skin would be. that wasn't brought up in netflix or the book. why? >> the way the british press reacted to that was fairly typical. there was like a hunt for the royal racist. neither of us believe that that comment or that experience or that opinion was based on racism. but i think that you speak to the majority, not all, but the

majority of mixed race couples around the world, that the white side of the family would wonder whether talking openly about it or among themselves what the kids will look like. the key word here is concern. as opposed to curiosity. but the way that british press, what they turn it into was not what it was. >> but you stand by that happened but you just didn't feel the need to -- >> what else did i say at the end of the oprah interview? >> that you would not discuss it further. >> thank you. >> bonnie, i want to make a point about how he framed. that it got huge publicity at the time. no mention in netflix or the book. >> well, you know, i saw it. and you remember oprah's reaction was something like what? and the whole world stopped. meghan looked as if she was about to cry. we have to take that as very

serious. and maybe even deliberate. and then harry kind of implies that maybe it wasn't. so, you know, how do you take this? the other thing i want to say, i didn't get a chance to say about spare. anderson, there's no way that a person who's royal on one side and high know built would be okay being called a spare. the second son is a norm in these circles. his great grandfather was a second son. there were spares. harry would have known about the spares. he was going to school with a bunch of spares. the issue is, i think, that there was no space for this man to be who he is in this particular family. i mean, that's the crisis. and we can see that when he's walking behind his mother's coffin on that day. that is a crisis. and it's a crisis not just for

harry. it's a crisis for the british people. they have to make some decisions about this family. frankly, i lived here a long time, half my life. and every decade there is something about the royal family that is going on. every decade. and i think the british people are going to have to make a decision about this. because the head of the family is the constitutional head of state. his elders is the constitution and his elders is constitutional. everybody else is the spare. so, you know, we need to actually -- this has to be in the hands of the british people to actually understand what's going on here and deal with it. this can't keep going on. >> max, you know, you were talking about the relationship with the queen consort, camilla. that is really some of in the book the toughest perspective is about her. >> yeah. i think for me that is seismic. and he actually, it's

interesting through that story and your part of the interview he lets off charles lightly there. he has done actually throughout the whole of this book. the reality is that over the last 20 years or so charles has driven this effort to rehabilitate camilla h's image. and harry is blow torching that saying she's dangerous and looking stories and that was undermining other members of the royal family. but charles was part of that as well. he has been part of that. there is no way she could have gone through the process of working with the media. >> harry does hint at that. does talk about that. his perspective on it in the book. there is more detail of it in the book. he talks about one particular incident where harry was actually in high school and there were all the stories about alleged drug use. harry was, i believe, smoking pot, he says. but manufacty of the details wet true that were being reported.

he believes a decision was made by the spin doctors that were employed by his father and by camilla essentially to not -- if not green light the stories, not try to squash them or in some way try to minimize them because they were convinced or told by the spin doctor that those stories would make them look -- would make prince charles look better. he would suddenly go from being the villian in the story who had been terrible to his former wife to being a beleaguered dad with a drug adult son. >> yeah. i mean, reality is that you do protect the more senior members of the family. not necessarily campaign against the junior members of the family. but the crying incident. this is going into folklore, you know, who made who cry? meghan or kate over the bridesmaid dress just before the wedding? quite defining. none of us know who made who

cry. the story got in the papers was that meghan made kate cry. and meghan and harry say it wasn't that way around. it was the other way around. but the palace wouldn't address that because it would be a more negative story for kate to make meghan cry. that is the sort of thing that really us fro really frustrated harry and meghan. when i worked with william's side of the palace, they would often, working with the sussexes as well, they were constantly talking about the racism and sexism in the british tabloid media. they were trying to stick up for them. but i didn't -- i wasn't party to the conversations between behind palace walls. harry had the insidetrack. he felt i was working against him and meghan. >> everyone stick around. more interview prince harry when we come back including what happened when he learned his grandmother queen elizabeth was near death. >> i asked my brother, what are your plans? how you are getting there?

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. more now with my interview. we pick up the conversation with the death of the queen and harry finds himself with his brother this time behind his grandmother's casket. harry has been back in the united kingdom. he was in london last september for a charity event when the palace announced his grandmother, the queen, was under medical supervision at the k castle in scotland. >> i asked my brother, how are you and kate getting there? a couple hours later, you know, all of the family members that live win the windsor area are jumping on a plane together, a plane with 12, 14, 16 seats. >> you were not invited on that plane? >> not invited. >> by the time get to there on his own, the queen was dead. >> i walked into the hall.

my aunt was there to great me a greet me and asked if i wanted to see her. i thought about it for five seconds. i said can you do. this you need say good-bye. and so i went upstairs. took my jacket off. i walked in and spent time with her alone. >> where was she? >> she was in her bedroom. i was really happy with her. she completed life. and her husband was waiting for her. and the two of them are buried together. >> as they had 25 years earlier, harry and william found themselves walking together but apart, this time behind their grandmother's grandmother's casket. >> do you speak to william now? do you text? >> currently, no. but i look forward to us being able to find peace. >> how long has it been since you spoke? >> a while.

>> do you speak to your dad? >> we haven't spoken for quite a while. no, not recently. >> can you see a day when you would return as a full-time member of the royal family? >> no. i can't see that happening. >> in the book, you called this a full scale rupture. can it be healed? >> yes. the ball is very much in their court. but meghan and i have continued to say that we will openly apologize for anything that we did wrong. but every time we ask that question, no one is telling us the specifics or anything. there needs to be a constructive conversation, one that can happen in private, that doesn't get leaked. >> i assume they would say, well how can we trust you? how do we know you're not going to reveal whatever conversations we have in an interview somewhere? >> this all started with them briefing daily against my wife with lies to the point of where my wife and i had to run away

from my country. >> it's hard, i think, for anybody to imagine a family dynamic that is so "game of thrones" without dragons. >> i don't watch "game of thrones," but there's definitely dragons. and that's, again, the third party, the british press. without the british press as part of this, we would probably still be a fairly dysfunctional family. but at the heart of it, there is a foreign ministerially without question. and i look forward to having that family element back. i look forward to having a relationship with my brother and my father and other members of my family. >> you want that? >> that's all i've ever asked for. >> "60 minutes" reached out to buckingham palace for comment about this interview. they demanded 60 minutes provide the report prior to airing, which is something "60 minutes" never does.

obviously the royal family would like to avoid a public tit for tat with prince harry. they have not responded. i assume they probably won't, given this is probably the worst in terms of the attention, the amount of coverage and revelations to come. what happens now? >> anderson, they've said they're not going to respond. they're going to stay stern. and it's interesting because harry was saying, never explain, never complain was just a motto, but there's an awful lot of complaining and explaining behind the scenes. we've already had sources briefing the newspaper that they're devastated, that william is angry, that there won't be a role for harry in the coronation. there are sources who harry would say comes from buckingham palace itself, the sources are briefing, at the moment, it looks very much as if there can't be a reconciliation. there is a big distance between them. harry said, we haven't spoken for a while.

he said, there are dragons in the family. he said actually also the press wanted them to stay apart. they'll be terrified by a piece between them. there seems to be a huge investment in keeping them apart, and harry sees that to continue. i don't see a happy family reconciliation any time soon. but i certainly think that harry thinks he feels he's been damaged so much already that this is not burning bridges. it's honesty, and he's telling his truth. >> bonnie, what do you think happens now? >> well, you know, this is the story of a human being caught in a machine. the royal family, as kate has implied, is a machine. and it's grinding along. and harry has said, halt. so, it's halted, but it's going to industill try to struggle. if there's a coronation in may, that's going to be fascinating. but harry's telling a story that has to be told. his mother started it. he's going to finish it.

so, in that sense, "spare" and your interview with him is very, very important because we're getting a look at the vicious, nasty tabloids, which americans -- we don't have an equivalent of that anywhere in the united states. there is no equivalent. so, he's right about how meghan was labelled, which was appalling. so, this guy is stopping the machine. i hope he does, and i hope the british people in this great country, also begin to look at this machine because it's not doing -- i don't think it's doing the country any good. even though my taxi driver said he wanted the royal family to stay because it's continuity. >> max, i mean, it's interesting, you know, the palace is not responding publicly, and yet they are briefing, as kate said, i assume privately and offering up people who will say things that they want to be said. >> i haven't had that. there's been a bit of it in the papers. i'm not sure where it's coming

from. i think a very clear decision not to say anything here, to allow harry to have his say, to get it all out, or perhaps to rise above it. i don't really know. i'm a bit more hopeful than the other two, only because things are so bad they can't get any worse. he's broken the cardinal rule. you know, he's -- really private moments he's exposed. moments at phillip's funeral, the queen's funeral. you would not talk about that as part of the family. in the future, they might look at this day. it's all out there now. we might as well try to fix things. i don't think it's going to happen any time soon. but i'm quite hopeful, you know, it can get better, frankly. >> and he has said the ball is in their court. there need to be conversations. but he says that the original offer is still on the table of a partial role for him. he doesn't say a full-time role, but he would like to see a partial role. but obviously that there needs to be a lot of conversations before that happens.

>> charles needs to be the king and take his son's offer up. if he wants to change the institution, that's what he needs to do. >> bonnie greer, max foster, kate williams. i appreciate all you being with us. thank you so much. we'll turn back to u.s. politics. president biden now with his own classified documents controversy and the justice department investigating. details next. ♪ what will you do? ♪ what will you change? ♪ will you mak something better? ♪ will you create something entirely new? ♪ our dell technologies advisors provide you with the tools and expertise you need to do incredible things. because we believe there's an innovator in all of us.

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