part of his -- >> al roker, it's been a huge pleasure, thank you so much for coming on. >> indeed. >> i'm sure the book is a cracking good read. i look forward to reading it. >> thank you, sir. have a great christmas. >> and you. that's all for us tonight. ac 360 starts right now. >> piers, thanks very much. good evening, everyone, it is 10:00 on the east coast. we begin tonight with keeping them honest, a 13-year-old honor student and athlete who dreams of going to college and a good high school. he's speaking out tonight talking about a bunch of adults who he says are insulting his intelligence with fear and ignorance. he's talking about how a prestigious boarding school has turned him away. an institution, pennsylvania's milton hershey's school with a long tradition of helping kids like him. denying him admission for one reason, he's hiv positive. school officials say they're

afraid he may have sex with another student some day and spread the virus. even though in any case, the hershey school is a highly structured, highly supervised environment. even though condoms block the spread of hiv and taking anti-viral drugs -- which this boy does -- lowers the risk of contraction even during unprotected sex by 96%. the school claims it cannot take any chances even though barring the student, known in court papers as john doe, would seem to violate the americans with disabilities act. i spoke to the school spokeswoman earlier. in a legal document you've written the school has made an individualized assessment as required by the ada and its implementing regulations and determined that john doe would pose a direct threat. that's the language you used just now. i want to read to you from a question and answer document put out by the justice department by their civil rights division to inform people about the

americans with disabilities act. in this document it says, and i quote, there's a question, quote, can a public accommodation exclude a person with hiv/aids because that person allegedly poses a direct threat to the health and safety of others. in almost every instance, the answer to this question is no. persons with hiv/aids will rarely if ever pose a direct threat in the public accommodations context. given that, how can you still claim there's a direct threat? >> because we're a very unique institution. >> spokeswoman connie mcnamara. beyond that claim that the hershey school is unique because it's a residential school, a boarding school. i wanted to know what scientific basis they have for keeping this child out? what medical evidence was your decision based on? >> we did a thorough review. we had the admissions committee and our senior admission, along with our medical staff review the case. >> so you had a doctor or medical professionals consulting on this? >> yes. >> and they advised you that there was a risk of having an hiv positive child in the school? >> i wasn't in those discussion, anderson, but i can tell you

that the decision at the end of the day was that in balancing the risks, we had to think about those other 2,000 students in our home. >> well, we wanted to know more, especially after speaking with emory university medical center dr. kimberly manning. >> this was a decision rooted in fear not because of public health concern. because if this was truly for public health purposes, they would have sought the counsel of the appropriate medical professionals who would have told them of the compelling data that is demmen straightsed by those who are taking anti-retro viral therapy, if they do have sex, the chances of spreading hiv is minimal. >> who did this school consult with? we contacted connie mcnamara, she said she had no comment because of pending legislation,

the lawsuit filed on this boy's behalf. the teenager whom the school has referred to as john doe answered some of my questions tonight. he said, i'm not a threat to anyone. he adds if anything the lawyers and spokes for the school are a direct threat to me by insulting my intelligence as though i do not understand or know the consequences of unprotected sex. who wants to have sex anyway at my age? he wants the school to stop making out like i'm this vermin that's out to get the student body at milton hershey. we'll talk to his attorney. first, to what is to many is a staggering fact. this is happening a quarter century after another young man ryan white fought to stay in school despite being hiv positive. through his battle many learned to leave their unfounded fear of hiv behind, but apparently not everyone. i talked about it earlier tonight with ryan white's mom. what went through your mind when you first heard about this 13-year-old honors student in pennsylvania being denied admission because he was hiv positive? >> oh, gosh. anderson, i just felt like, you

know, it was ryan's story all over again. i mean, it just seems -- i didn't know the whole story at the time. i just thought people were uneducated. i did not understand the part about the sex. i mean, their response for not allowing him in school was because they're afraid that he might have sex. i mean, i think that's just kind of ridiculous. >> what about it do you think is ridiculous? >> i mean, for a 13-year-old. i mean, this kid sounds like a really responsible kid. he's very smart and very intelligent and he wants to go to that school. a kid with hiv, i think that's so important for him to have such hope and promise in his life. and he wants to make something out of his life even though he's got hiv and aids. i mean, i just think he's -- it's just an important thing for him to be able to better himself. and he can live a long, productive life. and i think it's just very unfair that they will not let him go to milton hershey school. >> what do you think ryan would say about the fact that a

situation like this is unfolding in 2011, almost 2012? >> i think ryan would be very annoyed that we're doing this again. i think he would feel, you know, it's ridiculous. i think he would feel like, you know, we already fought this battle. you know? we know that aids cannot be transmitted by kissing, tears, sweat and saliva. it can't hop, skip or jump around. i think it was important for people to look at a person for who they are and like a person for who he they are. you are not giving them a chance of seeing who he is. all you're seeing is hiv/aids, and you're not giving him a chance in life. >> i do some work with the elton john aids foundation helping them raise money. i know elton became close to ryan and to you. he's talked about the impact that ryan had on him. what impact do you think this story, what's happening to this young boy is going to have? >> i think it's going to make us

do more education. i think it's important for everybody to get educated. i think we've come to a standstill kind of people talking about aids. this puts aids in the forefront, not like we want it to be like this over a story like this, but at the same time it makes people and enforces that you can't get aids by casual contact or by living with somebody, going to school with somebody, working with somebody. you cannot get aids that way. >> jeannie white-ginder, we appreciate you being with us. thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> you heard what the teenager has to say about the situation. he says it's been rough with him. i asked how he's dealing. he said, i'm not dealing with it good. i'm a shy person and all the attention is overwhelming. i'm glad it's getting out and not being shoved under the rug. i don't feel normal any more. when asked what he would say to parents at the school who have concerns. as far as the parents are concerned, i understand, but ignorance is a very dangerous

tool. your children should be educated about a person who is hiv positive. if i have a cut, i have the common sense to get a bandage or tell my mother. joining us now, his attorney ronda goldfein and senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin joins us. i want to ask you something that the school has been unwilling for unable to clarify for us. the school's spokeswoman connie mcnamara told me on friday that the school consulted with medical professionals before denying admission to your client. are you aware of who those medical professionals are? >> we're not aware of who they may have spoken to. and i can say at the aids law project of pennsylvania, which is a nonprofit public interest firm, we've been doing this work for 23 years. and i'm not aware of any credible medical or scientific expert that would suggest that this boy, simply on the basis of his diagnosis, should be excluded from school.

>> jeff, the school is saying that he poses a direct threat. the americans with disabilities act clearly says that in virtually no case does somebody who is hiv positive pose a direct threat in a public place. >> particularly public accommodations, which is the argument they're making is because this is a residential school, boarding school, he is a special risk. but the justice department specifically ruled that out and said that's not a legitimate justification, just as congress specifically amended the americans with disabilities act to make precisely clear that hiv status is not a basis in which you can discriminate against someone. this case seems like a very obvious result. >> ronda, by the school's logic, though, shouldn't then any college not have hiv-positive students because he has residential facilities and there's probably less supervision in college than there is at this academy? >> exactly. they're suggesting that there's something unique about the fact that the students sleep overnight that somehow increases the risk. i mean, the law and the science is clear, there's no risk for

this child to be in the school or at a day camp or any other place. so the idea that if he's there when it gets dark somehow the risk is increased is really just a lack of information on their part. >> what's your reaction to the school's -- what appears to be the school's main concern that your client might become sexually active at some point in the time he is in this school because it goes all the way through 12th grade? >> we were pretty distressed to hear their opinion on this. we had tried to negotiate with the school for several months because we really just wanted to resolve it and get our student into school as quickly as possible. then after months to hear that their concern is that he was going to have sex. they haven't asked anything about him. they haven't talked to his family. they haven't talked to his providers. they just decided on his diagnosis and his age he's inappropriate for school. that's pretty distressing. >> you should think about the reasoning here. lots of high school kids who

don't go to boarding school also have sex. presumably under this reasoning, you could exclude hiv students from day schools as well. i mean, the logic here is so discriminatory and so -- >> you think this is clear-cut discrimination. >> you know, i usually try to give both sides and, you know, not give categorical opinions. but i don't see any basis for the milton hershey school's position here. and it's particularly distressing because this is such a distinguished institution with such a great history of educating kids in need. >> they're clearly helping a lot of kids, but they're really doing damage to this child and frankly to anyone with hiv out in, the message that they are sending. what's the latest with regards to the actual lawsuit, rhonda? >> we filed our complaint. we haven't heard anything back from them, nothing's been filed. we'll proceed on a litigation path. it never should have gotten to

this point. we're hoping this can be resolved promptly. lawsuits are difficult, painful events for all of the parties. we just wanted our student to be able to go to this prestigious school. we're as stunned as everyone else to find ourselves in this lawsuit. >> even if he wins, you know, he's probably going to have to give a deposition. this is going to be an ugly process for this poor kid to have to go through. even winning a lawsuit is a miserable experience and there's no reason this kid should have to go through it. >> we'll continue to follow it. i think it's a really important case. it says a lot about where we're at as a country. ronda feingold and jeff toobin. thanks for joining us. follow me on twitter @anderson cooper. i already tweeted about this, let us know what you think. "raw politics" next. mitt romney versus the latest anti-romney, newt gingrich. could this be the matchup? can newt knock off mitt? or is he just a polling

sensation minus the punch to pull it off. what about his claim that poor kid have no work ethic? we'll have another answer to that problem involving donald trump from newt gingrich today. we'll explain that ahead. later he has the right to remain silent and a lot of lawyers say he should. why is alleged child molester jerry sandusky talking? and what's he saying about the charges against him. you'll hear about that. let's check in with isha. >> the florida a&m marching band is famous for its precision and style. now incidents of hazing are coming to light. up close new revelations in the alleged hazing death of the band's drum major. and eye opening inside details of the brutality that some drum band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. g band members endure. that and much more when 360 continues. for convertibles, press star one.

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new polling shows newt gingrich continues to surge. the former house speaker who like to be known as an ideas man coming up with an answer to a problem he identified the other day. >> really poor children in really poor neighborhoods have no habits of working and have nobody around them who works. so they literally have -- they have no habit of showing up on monday. they have no habit of staying all day. they have no habit of i do this

and you give me cash. unless it's illegal. >> that was newt gingrich last week. the remark set off a firestorm of controversy as he himself predicted. today after paying a call on donald trump he unveiled one of his ideas of combating the economy that he teach the poor kids the value of work. >> i recommend that he adapt a program of apprentices and create apprenticeships that would involve ten of the lower class schools in new york city and be paid for part time work. he liked the idea a lot. he understood exactly what i was getting at. >> new polling, one shows likely iowa caucus goers, 28% prefer newt gingrich and ron paul and mitt romney are tied for second place. in florida gingrich enjoys a massive lead. however in all those places he lacks the political organization that mitt romney has been building for years. the question is will romney's stellar sales force be enough

when republican voters don't really seem to love what he's selling? paul begala and rich galin who once served as newt gingrich's spokesman join us now. paul, you say that he has the most important quality which is perseverance. >> he does. i have to admire that. he withstood withering attacks. tim pawlenty got out of the race -- there was nothing bad happening to him. people like me mocking him, hammering him, insulting him, and he took it. it's been rough. any normal person would be under the bed in the fetal position. so i'm not a fan of gingrich can don't agree with him, would not like it if he was my president. but setting that aside that kind of toughness is something i admire. >> you've also said, though, paul, you think gingrich as the republican nominee would be a godsend for democrat 1234z >> i say that with the caveat that my predecessors with interest in the carter white house said that about ronald reagan.

every gingrich story ends the same way. i'm not even worried about the baggage of which he has more than -- if liza minnelli was checking into the plaza hotel with a full retina of massage therapists and horoscope readers, more than that. i'm worried for newt. i would be certain that he'll self-destruct. every story ends with newt and a can of gasoline and a bic lighter. i mean, if he runs, if he's the nominee, the president will have his hands full, i'm sure. but he may not make it that far. >> rich, i'd like to hear what you have to say about paul's vision of him as self-destructing. but also i've heard you say that despite the fact that he does have his fair share of baggage, he is a known quantity and that actually helps him. >> it does help him. let me go back to one more example of who you want to run against. when george h.w. bush was running against what we called in 1991, the seven zwar ofs, one

of whom was phil clinton. everybody said if we could just have clinton, then we know we got this because we know who was taking the oath of office on january 20th the next year. for newt, the interesting irony in all this is that he is of washington and he has been covered by washington reporters for a quarter of a century. they know all this stuff. so they can't get into that sort of there's gambling back there claude rains kind of reporting when they find something out, like with rick perry and they found out the name of his fishing camp, as an example. so he does get a free ride on that. the business with the underprivileged children, you can say the same thing about families that live on the hamptons, by the way, that nobody there works either and the kids don't have any work ethic. >> paul, gingrich, i guess he's playing catch-up in terms of campaign organization. how much -- obviously, he's got momentum, but how much in the marathon that this is does ultimately the campaign

organization play? >> well, i think we're learning that at least in 2012 probably less than in prior years. i mean, message matters most, momentum matters, organization matters. it's not nothing. i think gingrich probably wishes he had more people with him earlier. when you've got a message that's hot, people will flock to you. i've seen this before. and the organization that some of newt's opponents are building in iowa may very well turn out caucus attendees who caucus for gingrich. so i wouldn't put too much in organization. i think it's more important to have a message and stick to it. however his message apparently is that 9-year-olds instead of going to school in the inner city should be cleaning urinals or working in the boiler room and now ten kids are going to have an apprenticeship with donald trump. he does know that's a tv show? doesn't he? i'm going to call my friend andy

bernard at dundermifflin in scranton, and he'll give them jobs. >> the republicans have changed this year that's a departure. and that is that caucuses and primaries between now and april 1st are proportional. there's no winner take all in those first three months, and it was designed to make the process stretch out so that all the states didn't try to crowd up to the front. and that does, i think, argue for some level of organization as you move out of the first three or four states and get into february and march, march 6th is supertuesday, california and new jersey aren't all the way until june. i'm not sure that organization won't matter. >> if you were advising candidates, gingrich and santorum have agreed to appear in this forum that donald trump will be moderating. if you were advising candidates, would you suggest they go and appear there? >> no, i would suggest they follow the obama model during the supercommittee debate and get as far away on the planet as you can possibly get. guam and australia fit the bill perfectly.

>> ron paul and huntsman have said they're not going to go. paul begala, rich galin, thanks very much. inside to mind of an accused pedophile. former penn state assistant football coach jerry sandusky speaking out in a new in depth interview and he admits that he -- well, you'll hear from him what he says for himself. why would he say that he was attracted to young people? why would his attorney let him? we'll talk to a forensic scientist and our senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. also new details about the violent history of one of the country's best marching bands and the hazing rit you'll that may have led to the death of their drum major.

"crime & punishment" tonight, former penn state assistant football coach jerry sandusky speaking out, raising more eyebrows and more questions. charged with more than 40 counts of molesting eight boys over 15 years. he's free on bail while awaiting a preliminary hearing next week. in an interview with "the new york times" he denied sexually abusing any children. he talked about opening his home to kids which the charity founded. arranging sleepovers, giving them money and gifts. but when he tried to describe his relationships with young people, his lawyers had to step in with an assist. take a look. >> if i say no, i'm not attracted to boys, that's not the truth because i'm attracted to young people, boys, girls -- >> it's not sexual. you're attracted to -- >> that's what i was trying to say, i enjoy spending time with young people, i enjoy spending time with people. my two favorite groups are the elderly and the young.

>> that was joe amendola's voice, the attorney, saying that his client isn't sexually attracted to young people. last month, he gave an equally rambling answer when bob costas asked him if he was sexually attracted to young boys. joining us now michael welner, and jeffrey toobin. what do you make of that answer? >> what i think about that interview and why victims are so touched by it. we've been asking why in 1998 and 2002 and beyond did people say, nothing to see here, move on? if you watch the interview by "the new york times" reporter, her choice of questions is exactly why he's been out on the loose. a predatory sex offender communicates about his actions through what are known as cognitive distortions. answers that deny. rationalize, minimize. give the listener the impression

nothing to see here. move on. so for example, a question that she would ask, she'd say, can you see why people are alarmed that you would take showers? excuse me, that's not why we're here. we're not here because he took showers with children. we're here because he was sodomizing and exploiting and having sex with children. and he was doing it -- >> he's accused. he's accused. he's not convicted. >> but the point is that's why we're having this discussion. and so to articulate this as some sort of discussion about whether showering is appropriate plays into the notion that he needs to advance and has with penn state, with law enforcement, that it's not a big deal. it's what happens in athletics. so essentially if you interview a predatory sex offender, whether he's suspected or guilty, you have to work with the ugliness. you can't do it from a lofty

position. you have to say, can you see why people would be outraged that you would have sex with a 10-year-old who is not in any position to give consent? that's the question to ask. you can't send a "new york times" reporter in to do a "national enquirer" reporter's job. >> wouldn't an innocent person also deny it, too? it sort of seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. >> i think that costas' question was illustrative. are you sexually attracted to children? you could answer it any way. yet that answer is the one you come back to. and many things could be asked again. do you think -- not saying you're guilty, mr. sandusky, but can you imagine that people might be outraged if you had sex with a 10-year-old? and see what he says. that's a fascinating, relevant question that doesn't force someone to be accusatory, and it's an appropriate way to go about it without enabling a cognitive distortion.

>> are you surprised that his attorney is allowing him to do these interviews? >> yeah, he seems to be making a bad situation worse. frankly, i thought the interview with joe thomas, the reporter who got this fabulous scoop, was better for sandusky than the costas interview. i think he seemed a little more rational. it's baffling because all these tapes are completely admissible in a court. they can get pretty far way to the conviction just on these tapes. he admits being in the showers, he admits -- >> so it helps prosecutors. >> oh, it helps the prosecutors, absolutely. i know in high profile cases the defendants are often very frustrated that their story is not getting out. and they're the ones who actually push to get -- you know, to get publicity. but it's the job of the lawyer to say, look, just wait for the trial. i don't see how this helps at all. >> you talk about cognitive distortion, if somebody is doing that, does that mean they believe what they're saying? >> absolutely. i think one of the list sons

that we also need to learn from this, is that sexual assault such as you see and predatory pedophilia, it's not an event, it's a process. it's the end point of a process in which a victim is targeted, and then groomed through isolation, developing a need and then finally sex comes into it and then an enforced silence. so it's the end point of a process. and so with respect to cognitive distortion, it's not just how sandusky communicated to a victim. it's how he communicates to a protector. you don't engender just the trust in the victim, you engender trust in the parent, even the protective parent who says, i wouldn't leave my child alone with anyone, but with this person, whether he's the esteemed football coach or the catholic priest who is known for good deeds. "doubt," the movie, the play, beautiful illustration of this. the lead character, was he guilty or was he not? he was benevolent, but there was something icky.

and that quality about sandusky, the benevolence and the presence he had in so many people's lives enabled him to trade upon his legend to establish trust for parents that they would only leave a child with him. and the same work with penn state. >> if we can add one point about the cover-up issue which also is relevant to this interview, you know, he talks to joe thomas of the "times" about he had free access to the locker rooms. he was not restricted by second mile -- >> it was joe becker of the "times." >> joe becker, i'm sorry. that all of these so-called restrictions that he was banned from the locker room, were nonsense. he had free rein, paterno never talked to him -- >> even after 2002 paterno never talked to him. >> obviously, that suggests -- we're only relying on his word, but it does seem that the restrictions that we heard about when this story broke were not there. >> you know, there's another

troubling issue that deserves closer attention, as long as we're keeping them honest. >> we've got to go. >> penn state can account for penn state but they sent him out all over the country as an ambassador helping to recruit even in an unofficial capacity knowing that they couldn't account for him under their own roof. imagine what he could do where nobody knew his history. >> that's interesting. michael welner, good to have you on. jeff toobin as well. shocking details of what may have happened on a florida a&m band bus that may have led to the drum major's death. that's next. first isha is back with a 360 news bulletin. >> the head of the faa is taking a leave of absence after he was charged with a dwi. randy babbitt was arrested in fairfax, virginia, over the weekend. police say he was driving on the wrong side of the road. the leave of absence is effective immediately, while officials discuss the status of his employment. president obama is urging

republicans to join democrats and pass an extension of the payroll tax cut. senate republicans say they didn't have any input in the democratic plan, and it has no chance of passing. the president said congress has to act before the tax cut expires at the end of the year. >> not only is extending the -- >> -- it will help families pay their bills. it's important insurance for them against the unexpected. it will help families pay their bills, it will spur spending, it will spur hiring. and it's the right thing to do. >> the u.s. postal service is trying to save more than $2 billion with a proposal to cut about 28,000 jobs and end next-day service of regular mail. the proposal is meant to offset an expected 47% drop in regular mail over the next ten years. and anderson, christmas is still almost three weeks away, but lots of people are already pretty much done buying gifts. that's according to reuters and a survey by america's research

group. almost 40% said they finished most of their christmas shopping, which leaves me naturally to say, what have you got me? >> i haven't done any shopping. wow. 40% have already finished. have you done any? >> i know what i'm getting you. >> yeah. >> what? >> i don't know. >> don't judge me by your standards. okay? >> ouch. that hurt. >> i know. >> oh, that hurt. time for the shot we play frisbee for hours at a time when isha is in the office. actually, we don't play it in the office or elsewhere, but this youtube video from perth, australia makes us want to. take a look. >> oh, wow. >> the video has more than 3 million hits. if we played frisbee in the office, it would look nothing like this. >> it would look nothing like that.

i'd be hiding under a desk. that looks pretty cool. >> from the other angle. impressive. zoom, zoom, zoom. that's my boat sound, zoom, zoom, zoom. >> you might need to work on that. >> there. amazing. we'll check back with you. serious stuff ahead. up close the death of a college drum major exposing a history of violence in one of the country's top marching bands. new details about how robert champion may have died. jennifer hawke petit and her two daughters were murdered in their home. will the jury sentence their killer to death? here's one story. [ regis ] we love to play tennis. as a matter of fact it was joy who taught me how to play tennis. and with it comes some aches aai and one way to relieve them all is to go right to the advil®. i have become increasingly amazed at regis's endurance. it's scary sometimes what he accomplishes in a day. well i'd rather not have time for pain but unfortunately it does comes your way every now and then. and that's when i take my advil®.

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up close tonight, the violent history of a renowned college marching band is just coming to light. at a rally this evening students of florida a&m were asked to sign an anti-hazing pledge. the college is reeling from death of robert champion who died from hazing by fellow band members. he was 26 years old. his parents have sued the university. the story stunned a lot of people because we usually hear about hazing in sports or sororities, not college marching bands. tonight we are learning more about what may have happened in the minutes before he collapsed.

here is jason carroll. ♪ >> reporter: robert champion was living his dream -- a dream that started when he was 5 years old -- being a drum major. his parents say the last time he spoke to him was just before thanksgiving. >> we had talked to him and he was saying how he couldn't wait to come home. >> reporter: robert champion was a member of florida a&m university's prestigious marching band, the marching 100. on november 19th, after champion had performed at a football game in orlando, his parents got another call. this time from his sister. >> she called us and saying someone had called her and saying that robert had problems breathing. and i think one of the band members said he wasn't breathing. >> when you get that kind of news, you think, not my robert, you know what i mean? maybe they made a mistake. so i guess i kind of still had that in my mind, that it wasn't my son, you know? you know, this is a bad joke, you know? >> a bad dream. >> reporter: but this was all too real.

listen to the 911 call made by a band member. >> are you with the person right now? >> well, i'm outside the bus so i can hear you. >> okay. so he's inside the bus? >> yes, he's inside the bus. >> okay. how old is he? >> he is 25. >> okay. is he awake? >> he's not even -- he wasn't responding. we thought he was breathing he was making noises. but i don't even know if he's breathing now. >> is he awake? do you know? >> his eyes are open. his eyes are open. he's not responding. >> okay. but is he breathing? >> i have no idea. i cannot tell you that. >> the 911 call too painful for his parents to hear. it wasn't until robert's body was brought home to suburban atlanta that the shock of his death really began to register. >> before that, you kind of looked at it like he was still at school and he just hadn't come home.

but to have him come home that way, that's the hardest thing for anybody. >> reporter: but why did he die? investigators suspect hazing. band members we spoke to say it may have been the result of a rite of passage called crossing bus c. that's the bus robert was on after the november 19th game. one band member, who did not want to be identified, told me what happens. >> you have to walk from the front to the back of the bus backwards. and while the bus is full with other band members. and you get beat till you get to the back. >> reporter: and the point of it is what? >> for respect. >> reporter: and the beating can involve something he referred to as thunder and lightning. >> thunder is when you get like a straight hit to the chest. >> reporter: straight hit to the chest. >> and lightning is when you get kind of like a slap to the shoulders. >> reporter: he says he himself has never been hazed, but that the beatings usually happened for one of two reasons. a mistake during a performance or as a way for the band member to gain respect. in some ways, the marching 100

is bigger than the games where they play. their high stepping choreography has earned them a worldwide reputation performing spots at super bowls and the president's inauguration. but allegations of hazing have followed the band for years. back in 2001, a student was paddled so badly he had to be hospitalized for kidney failure. and just weeks before champion's death, the band's director julian white had to suspend 26 of the band members for hazing. white says he tried for years to end the practice, but says no one listened. the university fired white following champion's death and suspended band performances indefinitely. the school's president james ammons spoke at champion's funeral and vowed his death would not be in vain. ammons declined repeated requests to be interviewed. the parents say the school must be held accountable.

>> bhaefr whatever it takes to cleanup. from the top to the bottom, clean house. >> reporter: they say healing for them will take much longer. >> the thing is that i'm just going to miss his smile, his big hugs. there's nothing in the world that can prepare you for that. nothing. gosh, i'm crying. nothing can prepare you for that, nothing. >> amazing the parents are able to talk at this point. jason, you pointed out in your piece that the band director said he warned the school numerous times about the hazing. right after his death, it was that band director who was fired. do people feel that he's being made the scapegoat? >> reporter: i think there are some, anderson, who definitely feel that he's being made a scapegoat. they feel as though this is a man who didn't have the power to expel students. he could recommend that they be suspended. but his critics say this is something that existed at the university for such a long period of time. suspension isn't enough.

for some of these students, it's like a holiday, anderson, being suspended for a few days or a few weeks. champion's parents say if you have a system in place to try to do something and it isn't working, you have a responsibility to try something else. >> you just got back from a mandatory campus-wide meeting. where the president of the university spoke. what did he say, if anything? >> reporter: he talked about changing the culture that exists at the university. he talked about this institution of secrecy, this wall that needs to be broken through. he also said that the university would be doing everything that they could to cooperate with the criminal investigation. but once again, he has his critics who basically say when you have something that's existed for such a long period of time, it will take more than what they've been doing to fix it. >> jason carroll, thanks for your reporting. roberts family and friends have launched a facebook page so people can share their stories and show their support. provide advice on hazing. drum major for change robert d. champion.

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oh, yes, time for "the ridiculist." tonight we have to add once again the romance haters who doubt the pillars of love, strength and all things genuine that compose the blessed union between courtney stodden and doug hutchinson. the same people who said that at

51 doug -- i think i can call him doug -- was just too old to marry 16-year-old courtney. they said things like what could they possibly have in common? her parents should be in jail. this will never last. but they've been married for almost seven months. a new video for vh-1's the fab life, courtney shuts them down with the world she and her husband have created. feelings, insights, trips to church and saucy jaunts to pumpkin patch. also there are bands. >> i turned him on to maroon 5, train, you know, all the new, you know, awesome artists who are out. it's so cute. doug calls maroon 5 monsoon 5. i can't believe. yeah, monsoon 5! it's so embarrassing, but it's darling, too. >> ha ha, ha ha, ha ha. it's not all top 40 music and gold tube tops, oh, no, a typical day at chez courtney, it can get crazy. >> a typical day for me is crazy, let me tell you.

i get up out of bed and the sexiest outfit you've ever seen. my hair is done, my makeup's done. >> hair done. makeup done. we love you courtney stodden. >> my hair is done. my makeup's done. i get up at around 12, 12:00 p.m. and i make my mocha. i don't care about anything else. doug is wonderful. picks up my coffee beans that i spill on the floor. he picks up my foundation. he picks up my feathers from my big robe that i wear. my high heels are all over. i have a wonderful life, a wonderful husband. a typical day for me is like a princess. >> somebody call mother goose, the best fairy tale ever. picking up her coffee beans and foundation and feathers. i do have one concern, now that princess courtney is married, will she have enough time to focus on her career. remember courtney's career from back in her single days -- queue

the boat and the pink dog. ♪ i go shopping ♪ eyes be popping ♪ when i go walking ♪ jaws be droppin' . >> i'm happy to report jaws will once again be dropping, because we have not heard the last of the song stylings of miss courtney. >> i'm current in production with some songs, with some singles that are going to be coming out in 2012. so i'm real excited to, you know, hurry up and get them done and share them with you guys. >> we're excited, too, courtney. so it sounds like she's doing great. the marriage, the career and the haters are eating their own words, much like courtney seems to be eating her own face in my favorite clip. >> people are welcome to their opinions. that's what the world is about. if they need to feel this way, that's theirs to hold, not ours. >> i don't know what she's doing. i can watch that literally every day and i still -- i see